Latest / Difference Makers Podcast / Ken Croarkin - A Chartered Accountant who took one leap—said yes once—and changed a whole life trajectory

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Ken Croarkin - A Chartered Accountant who took one leap—said yes once—and changed a whole life trajectory · Difference Makers Podcast

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you may be across the globe.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Tuning in for this episode of Difference Makers Discussed.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sinead Donovan, and throughout this series, I have the pleasure of speaking to some of our most exceptional charged accountants members worldwide.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And today is no different.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I am talking to iCast member Ken Crokin.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ken sits on the council of iCast.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I should have said that's Scotland.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: But just to confuse you all, Ken is based in New York, having moved there a number of years ago.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Ken is now one of a couple of overseas members from iCast that sit on their council.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, Ken, you are very welcome.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have given you an intro I've introduced you as what you currently are, but there is a whole backstory there from your training days in the UK and to how you ended up as a partner in Eisner Amtner in New York today.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: So do you want to fill in the gaps for us?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thanks for having me on, Shanid.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh glad to be here.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I um I grew up in Glasgow in Scotland.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, first person to go to university and my family, uh, you know, chartered accountant, didn't really come across to them when I was growing up very much, uh, but they seem to do pretty well.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the career advisor said be, you know, maybe you should be a kid do accounting or do law.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, they seem to do okay, so I'll go for it.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So uh went to Dundee University in in Scotland, uh away from home for a couple hours away, anyway.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when I left, joined a national firm in the UK, a smaller one.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh after qualifying, moved over to the time Cuberson Liebrand in Glasgow.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, from there, you know, was doing a mix of industries, and uh, you know, all of a sudden an opportunity came up uh in the insurance industry in particular, uh to uh uh you know to learn it, basically work with our London office.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I I said yes, went for it, and uh kind of a little bit the rest is history, if you like.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um really and that was in the orders uh audit client.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was in the yes.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was in the audit area.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the we uh they had a London client which had a large insurance subsidiary in Scotland, and they had no insurance experience.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they another firm did that audit, and they they wanted to try and win it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, it was a great opportunity for me.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I look at it as one of those things.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I always say this to people even these days, you know, when someone offers you something, really think about it.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Don't necessarily say no.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that I want to do insurance at that time.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not, you know, it's it's it's been great for me, but it's not the first thing a lot of people want to do.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it um, you know, it it changed my my life, really, I guess.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: It really changed changed what happened from there.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So from Glasgow to London, and then what brought you across the pond?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I I did a lot of work with the London office with those insurance guys, and um they uh someone had gone to New York uh you know the year before.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I met them on a due diligence in Poland of all places.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: It just showed you how that opened up and you know, really opened my eyes up.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, checked in with them a year later.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the next thing I knew, I was interviewing to go on on secondment.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I should step back a sec because basically in in Glasgow, you know, at the time at CNL, a lot of people going around the world on secondment, uh all over the world.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know what, I'm never gonna get that chance again.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll probably hate it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I wanted to give it a go.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, the then it became where would I go?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's how the insurance park came in.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of got I missed out a bit in the middle there, but that that's kind of what uh what happened.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So got to New York, um, you know, just amazing, crazy, and also a bit bit scary at first from a work perspective, uh trying to acclimate, you know, going from you know traditional, you know, UK GAAP at the time uh over to uh you know US GAAP and also um you know US statutory, which is a particularly different base of accounting for insurance companies.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but it was I learned a ton and it was uh you know working with very different people to the kind of environment I'd worked in in Scotland.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant, brilliant.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So so up to that point, Ken, your your charged accountancy qualification had essentially passported you across across the globe.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um from, you know, as uh you you mentioned four cities there in the space of two minutes, Glasgow, London, Poland, and Poland's not a city before someone corrects me, um, and New York.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um how I mean how important do you think that passport is and how maybe well known is it?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first question.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Then the second question is I know you are an AI CPA because obviously when you become a partner and a practicing partner, I think you have to do that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Talk us a bit, talk us through your journey and into that qualification, please.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, the the CA, you know, I mean, it I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the CA.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be uh wouldn't have spent the last 27 years in in New York, really changed my career.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, CA uh and and evidenced by what I said about the the Glasgow office at that time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, no one else in other industries uh was making that kind of move.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but a lot of people at the time in that in the firm in Glasgow were were going everywhere.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think I believe that's still the case today.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it really is a global qualification.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's something people don't really think about when they're taking the exams and you know going through it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but and it's something that that you know never occurred to me until I I saw Hamming in front of my eyes, and I thought, uh, you know what?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'll I'll do it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd encourage anyone thinking about that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness, you can really have uh you can really turbocharge your career.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even if I had uh gone back to Scotland, it would really have uh helped my career at you know back in the UK.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, for me it changed my whole career trajectory.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then, you know, having worked in the US, uh, you know, after a year or so, kind of began to realize I was probably going to end up staying, or at least I was thinking of staying.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh had a number of uh fellow chartered accountants, uh Irish and English members, uh who decided to who were doing the the CPA, and I began to to look into what would be involved.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it's a path in itself.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at the time, no kind of um mutual recognition agreements or reciprocity for ICAS, at least there were some in place for other institutes, but um, and you know, basically went through as someone would from uh uh you know from the US with an added wrinkle that uh since I did not have a US degree, uh I had to go through a whole process to even be able to sit for the exam.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and at the time, you know, I'm now I'm on the board of CAW USA right now, but at the time the predecessor was uh chartered accounts in the United States.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's my that was my first stop actually to figure out what I had to do.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to uh you know submit my UK degree, my um uh CA uh qualification.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then at the time, Colorado, of all places, never been to Colorado in my life until then, they uh they would accept that as entrance to the exam, and then you'd you'd be able to go through without having to go through onerous additional uh classes, which was the case in New York, for example.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so sat the exam, passed it, got my first uh license in Colorado, but then had to get over to my home office or you know, where I was and there uh back in the New York area.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, then it was like at the time knocking down a bunch of barriers.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um New Jersey and New York uh you know both took significant uh amount of time.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh New York ended up getting it because of length of years working in public practice.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it took quite some time.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh New Jersey was uh, believe it or not, I was short of liberal arts errors of all things, and I had to um you know go back to my higher qualifications from Scotland to try and uh remediate some of that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: They ended up leaving a lot of it, but all this took time, took years.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my goodness, that is like like that's some dedication and it's it's some journey.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know that you mentioned their reciprocity and mutual recognition agreements.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, reciprocity, which is where institu um professional bodies across the globe recognize each other's qualification, it has made things much easier.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now we're in a little bit of a I guess uh a juncture at the moment because because I know there's some reciprocity um agreements being being negotiated at the moment.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, reciprocity has made it a little bit easier now for CAs to move to America.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Am I right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for some of the institutes.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, uh I believe uh the Irish, the Cannes, uh, you know, there's one exam you can then sit now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: For some time their ICAS had a similar situation.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that is uh Yeah, that was the sensitive thing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I did I was trying to skirt around.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Apologize for that.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh you know the uh other than that, you need to set off for exams.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yes, there are there are opportunities for uh for some chartered accountants uh to be able to to do that.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and Ken, have I can I sorry to interrupt, can I can I maybe put you on the spot?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: This might be an unfair question, but um do you having gone through the exams and and and obviously working there for so long now and probably seeing CAs come in from other parts of the world into America, do you believe that reciprocity with add-on exams or be it a law exam or a tax exam can work on the basis of are we of a similar qualification standard and I guess value set, ethics, quality around the globe?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very generic question, so I I realize there's going to be a nuanced answer.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, at a minimum, we are our chartered accountants are uh extremely well qualified.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: They have uh all of the key uh factors that you would need to be successful in the United States.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the exams are very rigorous, the C exams are very rigorous.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh with with some work, with some effort uh in taking the exams, whether it be the single exam or all four parts, it is absolutely possible to do that without uh you know having to uh go back to complete basics.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: The level of knowledge, experience that chartered accountants have, and the rigor of their exams really makes the CPA exam very attainable.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the the whole ethos around the chartered institutes and chartered chartered accountants around the world really uh lends itself to being able to uh to be successful in in the United States and get that qualification.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you for that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and look, you know, I I do know that ICAS and and um, you know, hopefully your iCAS will will get the reciprocity um back up and running.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's let's let's pivot a bit more to to you personally.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So your your partner in Eisner Ampler, which I believe is about number 14 size firm in the States, always been a firm I've been hugely impressed with um across the globe.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's the you you seem to have specialized in sectors kind of earlier on than most um not big four firms.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So even yeah, I've been uh with the firm uh 20, 21 years this year, actually.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was hired into the insurance industry.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they were they were thinking about industry specialization 20 years ago, uh, which is kind of incredible for you know the time uh you know compared to the big four where I had been, a very small firm, which has grown significantly over the years.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, now it's uh as you say, it's in the in the top 15.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they were really thinking ahead of their time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, at the time I joined uh the uh still a mentor today, but the there was a former Anderson's partner who came in, they hired him in to really to grow an insurance practice.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I could see the potential there uh even at that time.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of the best things I ever did joining the firm and you know, uh listening to his vision, uh, which was you know part of the firm's broader vision at the time, which really was um, you know, beginning to uh to focus on growth and and specialization.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, uh really, really pretty much ahead of their time, I would say.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think they were, am I right in saying you were one of the the the the first firms or the first wave of foot firms to get PE investment as well?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, uh so that was uh around four years ago or so.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: We were we were the first of this current wave, uh, you know, which is really it's really helped uh grow the firm, you know, both increasing that industry and sector specialization, uh geographically really increasing the footprint, um, and then going with you know, being able to access to additional technologies, you know, people management, etc.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it really has uh uh turbocharged the the growth of the firm uh you know in the last four years.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's been an incredible journey for that as well.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: It really, I mean, it's it's that there is a wave of it going on, certainly on this side of uh of the Atlantic, and it really does seem to be the capital injection that is enabling firms to to strive ahead, as you say, with with technology or or or other specialists.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um have you seen any cons with the with the PE investment?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know some of the regulators might be a little bit nervous about it all, but but it's all been smooth and quality and all the rest has kept kept kept sky high.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm in a I'm an audit partner and my day-to-day audit job hasn't changed at all.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, we're we're still uh quality number one.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, we we still uh there's no there's no uh we're we're still managed by uh uh CPAs.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're uh you know the person uh the people I report to haven't changed.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, we've changed from our legal structure, uh, but the day-to-day, my day-to-day role hasn't changed.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: There, you know, there's there's nothing to be, from my perspective, there's nothing to be frightened of with PE.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's really allowed, you know, the the firm to uh to accelerate growth uh without any uh with without really any interference with the no interference really that's really uh you know helped us manage that uh pretty well, I would say.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant, brilliant.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and you mentioned there that one of the um um benefits of the the cash injection was technology.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um talk to me uh a little bit.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you have a fear that AI and robots are gonna take our jobs and we're gonna be redundant in the next couple of years?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or you know, i is there is it more there's an upside and an opportunity to the AI uh play?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I think everyone really kind of wonders where it's going.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, personally, you know, I I think there's an upside to this.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, the like we as a firm recently hired a partner um in charge of of AI that came from the outside.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're really investing heavily in in AI.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I think it's it's really being open to how it can change uh what you do and uh you know your your day-to-day role, etc.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean personally, I'm I wouldn't claim to be uh to have spent a lot of time working with it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm really uh you know learning as I go along, kind of uh you know, dipping my toe in the water, if you like.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but uh you know, everything I've seen and heard suggests that you know there's an opportunity here rather than uh an ultimate cost.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I you know like everyone else, you know, you you do um you know you do think about it, and you know, you you I read the papers.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, it it clearly there there are things that we haven't thought about which are gonna happen with it, but um, but I think we just got to see how it goes and and really embrace the embrace the change.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, look, I I completely echo what you say.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: To me, there's just endless opportunities that AI is gonna bring, and and certainly Charge Accountants Worldwide did a survey of the members, and and there is an overwhelming majority that are enthused and and and excited by the opportunities that AI are gonna bring to the profession.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So so I I don't think there's anything to fear.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's just whether we can keep up, keep up with the um so Ken, a member of iCast, so Charge County Scotland Council, um, congratulations.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was the driving force to to to be a member of council?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because it must be difficult being a member on council when you're you know um based in New York.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And do you see your role as being any any way different to the to the local uh council members?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I had been beginning to get more involved with ICAS and and CWUSC, you know, probably in the last five, six years, been involved with it on and off here um in my 27 years, but you know, really uh began to kind of re-engage again.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I was the you know, as part of that being the ICAS Home Institute member on CW USA, I uh was involved or would talk to a lot of people from ICAS back in the UK, back in Edinburgh on an ongoing basis.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when the you know, I I did think um, you know, maybe I could add something, you know, when the opportunity to stand for council came up.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um so decided to uh give it a go.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, this time was uh successful.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think what I can I think that what I can do a little differently is provide that perspective, that international perspective of members that maybe don't really engage with iCast uh day to day because they're not in the UK, they're not utilizing a lot of the uh the resources iCast may have regularly.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, one of the key things I think that iCAST does uh around the world and particularly in New York, and you know, combined with CAW USA is provide that networking ability.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I didn't go to college here.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the at the CAs coming from around the world, from ICAS, from the other countries, they didn't go to college here generally.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So in the US, college is your network.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the ICAS uh ANC, W USA and other institutes, that really helps provide that network here, regular, you know, meetings, updates, uh, you know, introductions, a certain level of knowing another chartered accountant, uh, you know, reaching out from business, etc.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I think it's providing the perspective that those overseas members pay their subs, uh, you know, making sure they get good value, feeding back, concerns, you know, maybe taking what getting my perspective uh about what's good, what's what could be improved, you know, how we can help the institute um you know also service those members extremely well, which I which I think they do.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: They they really do a nice job of um you know providing uh individual networking, resources, etc., you know, on their own and combine with CAW USA.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm delighted you called out CAW USA so so much there, um, Ken, because they do a phenomenal job.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I saw it when I travelled around when I was president of Charged Accountants Ireland, um kind of introducing, uh I call it the family of accountants, but introducing the global family of accountants to each other.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I I do think they're doing um exceptional work.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um are you still seeing the influx of European charged accountants into the States?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or has there been any any any pause with with recent global events?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it hasn't changed uh like right now.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's gonna be interesting, I think, because I think a lot of uh you know transfers or et cetera, we're probably in process.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's gonna be interesting to see whether that changes in the next few years or not.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um but as of now, haven't really seen a tail-off in it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it'd still hear from uh you know members who are thinking of coming over.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had a call with a member yesterday, an iCast member, uh kind of wanted to just chat about, you know, uh, you know, a potential um move over here.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's still ongoing.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, but who knows, you know, whether that may change as we, you know, in this in this slightly different world that we're in there.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I look, it's it's it's really heartening to hear that there is still the conversations happening.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, I I do firmly believe that that the global opportunity of of charged accountancy is is immense.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the more that we can kind of cross-fertilize um uh around the globe, I think, I think will be beneficial to all.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just to finish on that topic, congratulations on on the appointment to council and enjoy your time on it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know it's a lot of volunteer effort that goes into it, and I can only imagine, especially, especially um with different time zones and everything.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, congratulations on it and and enjoy the time.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, appreciate it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um as we come towards the the the the end, um I wanted to kind of ask you, Ken.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously you're you're a very um experienced member of the profession, you've you've you've transcended work across the globe.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've stayed in the audit profession, which which probably is is is is is one of the areas that is struggling to recruit people at the moment.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: What what would your message be to a charged accountant maybe of today or even tomorrow as to why they they maybe should uh consider the audit uh profession?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when I started, I never thought I'd be basically make my whole career an audit, never in a million years.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: However, uh, you know, it gave me the audit profession really has given me uh, you know, across a bunch of industries early on, uh, you know, even as I specialized into insurance, really seeing different kinds of companies, how they work, how they operate, really learning from that environment.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's also generally where you know you've you have a high concentration of qualified chartered accountants and CPAs here, uh, that you're not necessarily going to see if you go into uh you know uh into private.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that collegiality, I think, is is really important for me.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it's also I think shown uh an adaptability, the audit profession.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, even you know, even though we're yes, we're compliance, um, you know, I think we're getting better at uh you know giving some added value as we go through uh etc.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so for me it's really I think though it's also I've changed locations, I've changed industries, uh, I've changed firms, I've really had a pretty broad range of experience um within the audit profession, and and all of it's felt a little bit different.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um even though I've been in my own firm this last 20 years, even that firm feels different than that period I've been there.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm not sure if that really answers your question, but uh but that's what I No, it it it it does, absolutely.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think you put it perfectly, and and and and I think even the way you said it, that whilst you've been in the same um sex sector or audit field for for your career, there is so many different facets and and and different opportunities and different um challenges that it brings.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I think you summed it up absolutely perfectly.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Ken, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have to comment on your accent.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: You have kept the Scottish accent, which I'm delighted to say because I love the Scottish accent.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um enjoy the the next number of chapters in your career, and thank you so much for um joining us today.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And best of luck on your journey in council.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it, Shanidi.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you to all of the listeners and uh watchers who have stayed with us till the end of this episode.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I hope you've enjoyed it and tune in for the next episode of Difference Makers Discuss.