Latest / Love Conquers Fear / #56: The End of Busywork: The AI Operations Playbook to Unlock Capacity and Abundance — Rachel Woods

Transcript

#56: The End of Busywork: The AI Operations Playbook to Unlock Capacity and Abundance — Rachel Woods · Love Conquers Fear

• 0:00
  Hey everyone, I want to announce that Love Conquers Fear with the
• 0:05
  subtitle Humanity, AI and the Age of Abundance for All is now
• 0:09
  available for preorder@loveconquersfear.org.
• 0:13
  It is such a beautiful experience to have this book in
• 0:16
  my hands. The version that you can
• 0:19
  pre-order now is hardcover comes out on June 23rd in honor of the
• 0:25
  solstice where the light overcomes the dark.
• 0:28
  It covers a very broad range of how we're going to transcend all
• 0:33
  the biggest problems and opportunities we have in the
• 0:37
  world to enter into that beautiful age of abundance for
• 0:41
  all. I hope you'll support the work.
• 0:42
  This is my love letter to humanity.
• 0:44
  This is my soul song. It's a deeply sacred book that I
• 0:49
  poured my heart and soul into. Tell your friends.
• 0:52
  Tell them about love. conquersphere.org.
• 0:54
  Tell them about the podcast and ultimately tell them about this
• 0:58
  book because this is the manifestation of all the work
• 1:01
  I've done on this path and it is my.
• 1:04
  Deep, deep prayer for all of. Humanity, thank you so much.
• 1:08
  We will kind of need to unlearn. Yes, you still need to
• 1:11
  prioritize, but it's a different math equation When you're
• 1:14
  looking at projects that used to take three months and now they
• 1:17
  can get done in half a day is a completely different way to look
• 1:21
  at business and teams. And so if you're an expert at
• 1:24
  something and you're somebody who's hungry and has had the
• 1:27
  whole To Do List of someday, someday, someday, or I wish we
• 1:29
  could do this, this is your moment to be able to get AI to
• 1:33
  help you make all of that possible.
• 1:35
  And I believe that there's so many more problems in the world
• 1:38
  that need solving and could be solved if we did have unlimited
• 1:41
  time. That is probably one of the
• 1:43
  biggest mindset shifts we get people to really make whenever
• 1:46
  we're training them, which is like, you have so much more
• 1:50
  opportunity and we just need you to see that.
• 1:56
  Welcome back everybody to the Love Conquers Fear podcast.
• 2:00
  I'm going to keep this intro short because I've got a very
• 2:03
  exciting guest on today who actually invented the term AI
• 2:07
  operations. And for those that are very long
• 2:11
  time listeners here, you'll know who I'm talking about because I
• 2:14
  mentioned her name on this podcast many times.
• 2:18
  I have been reading a lot, but I'm going to focus in particular
• 2:21
  on a podcast that I recently listened to.
• 2:24
  So sometimes I listen to the Lex Friedman podcast and recently
• 2:29
  Jensen Wang was on and Jensen had a really, really good
• 2:34
  episode with Lex and on the Lex Friedman podcast, I don't know
• 2:38
  about you, but I navigate typically with show notes and
• 2:43
  we're very dedicated and have been since episode 1 of the Love
• 2:46
  Conquer Sphere podcast with documenting show notes where
• 2:49
  it's very easy for you to get to the content that you want.
• 2:53
  And so I actually listened to the whole recording, but I
• 2:57
  started with the discussion on consciousness and I found
• 3:02
  Jensen's answers to be very much aligned with the way that I see
• 3:08
  it, that consciousness is a full body experience.
• 3:13
  It includes feelings. And this has great alignment
• 3:16
  with A World of Peers, the book that I profiled on here by
• 3:20
  Michael Pollan, and I was lucky enough to see him on stage at
• 3:24
  the New Orleans Book Festival that Walter Isaacson host every
• 3:28
  year. That was the fifth year to do
• 3:30
  it. And in the episode where I
• 3:32
  mentioned that, I included a link to see Michael Pollan on
• 3:36
  stage, also included in this episode in the show notes.
• 3:40
  But Jensen's answer on consciousness really aligns with
• 3:44
  the deep dive that I've done on the subject.
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  I've read lots and lots of books on consciousness at this point,
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  from A Secret of Secrets by Dan Brown, which is a great novel,
• 3:54
  to Annika Harris's book Lights On as well.
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  As you know, the Telepathy Tapes Season 2 in particular of that
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  podcast goes into all different forms of consciousness in a very
• 4:05
  deep way. I've also studied quantum
• 4:08
  physics quite a bit because I actually believe that the nature
• 4:11
  of consciousness exists in the quantum realm, as I've laid on
• 4:14
  this podcast many times. But definitely jump in.
• 4:18
  I really love Jensen's humility as well as he was discussing
• 4:22
  that and then he was discussing going forward how he leads.
• 4:27
  So definitely check that out. I'll include that in the show
• 4:30
  notes. So today I'm very excited to
• 4:33
  welcome Rachel Woods. Good to see you.
• 4:35
  Yeah, I know. It feels like it's been a long
• 4:37
  time coming, so I'm very excited for this.
• 4:39
  Well, thank you so much for the AI Visionary hat.
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  Of course I did bring a matching 1.
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  Yeah, I love your AI operator hat.
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  This means a lot to me coming from you.
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  And this is a Love Conquers Fear first in the making because you
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  are the first person on the podcast now with over 55
• 5:02
  episodes in that worked at Dated Out World and I really
• 5:07
  appreciate you coming on. I'm so happy to be here and we
• 5:10
  won't do the math of how long ago that was.
• 5:12
  Right, exactly. Well, I'm much older than you,
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  so you know, math wise, but you know, time is an illusion.
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  If you've heard me say it on the podcast, The Order of Time is a
• 5:22
  great book by Carlo Ravelli read by Benedict Cumberbatch.
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  And it's just a pure science book, but it ends in a very
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  spiritual way. It's it's fascinating discussion
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  on how humanity has invented this concept of time, which is,
• 5:38
  which is really just nothing more than the interactions
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  between things. So it's, it's a it's a really,
• 5:44
  really incredible read. Let's go into a operations and,
• 5:49
  and what you're doing today, but I would love to go back in a
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  time machine. And as you look at the arc of
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  your life leading up to this moment, you know, inventing this
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  term, having a practice where you're helping others really be
• 6:05
  world class with their AI operations, why do you think
• 6:09
  you're doing what you're doing now?
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  Yeah, I mean, it's a good question.
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  Luckily, you gave me a little bit of a heads up earlier 20
• 6:16
  minutes ago. You're going to ask this
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  question because it's a big question.
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  I'm like, I don't, I don't know if I've really sat with that
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  question as deeply as I, like probably should given everything
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  that's going on. But but I do feel like I'm doing
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  the work I should be doing as a human being right now.
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  And I do think when I look at the experience I've had in my
• 6:38
  career, it's really weird. Like I've actually when I was
• 6:42
  working and applying to jobs and stuff, I had two versions of my
• 6:45
  resume because they were just so weird to put together of the
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  different things I was doing between business and data
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  science and being technical. And so I think that those two
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  things are actually the exact reason I'm doing this.
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  And that's kind of been the the path.
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  So I could go back to the, yeah, what that arc has looked like
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  and kind of talk through that. Yeah, please do.
• 7:07
  Yeah, I'd love to hear it. Yeah.
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  So, and I don't know if you know of the story, my first official
• 7:13
  business was when I was 15 and I was too young to drive, which
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  was important because it was a photography business.
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  Yeah. And I would have to go on shoot,
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  like on location with clients that I couldn't even drive to
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  the location. So they had to come pick me up,
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  which my parents loved when they found out that these people like
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  finding me on the Internet, you know, and then picking me up to
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  for me to go take their pictures at locations and stuff.
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  But sit sarcastically, so sarcastically, they hated it so
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  much. My gosh, we're like, when are
• 7:41
  you getting your, you know, license?
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  If you get the day you turn 16? So yeah.
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  But then before that, I always been like entrepreneurial.
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  I mean, I think I had scruffy scarves business with my sisters
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  when I was younger. Like it's just been who I who I,
• 7:53
  I am. Yeah, not surprisingly, our
• 7:56
  Rachel, you know, I know our daughter, who's 21 now, has been
• 8:00
  entrepreneurial like ever since she was very young, too.
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  Came out with her first book when she was 13 years old.
• 8:05
  Yeah, you know you've seen it. And I think that's something
• 8:08
  that I've heard from you about your relationship with your
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  daughter that my parents did with me was they're so
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  encouraging. Yeah.
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  So I had so much space to experiment.
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  And even my photography business was my husband, my now husband's
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  idea. He was like, you should really
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  just go for this, right? Yeah.
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  So anyways, I did that. I ended up being really
• 8:27
  successful. And I remember I was just
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  booked, you know, back-to-back to back weekends, yeah, for
• 8:34
  months out. So it was a great experience.
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  So you must have had like a great artistic eye then to to be
• 8:40
  able to do. That it was really fun.
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  I also in hindsight didn't realize how much I was under
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  charging in the market, so didn't know those parts of
• 8:49
  business quite yet, but. To a 15 year old, Like what?
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  What were you charging? I'm curious.
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  I mean like I just found ads the other day that I made with
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  Photoshop that were $30.00 an hour. 30 bucks an hour, but hey,
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  when you're 15 that's like a. Mint because I, you know,
• 9:03
  otherwise, like I did try to go get a job in a sandwich shop and
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  I wasn't very good at it, right. And that was.
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  And you're not making 30 bucks an hour?
• 9:08
  No. Yeah, so and so and then other
• 9:13
  context is my dad is an amazing engineer and has had an amazing
• 9:16
  career actually, you know, bizarre voice and other even
• 9:19
  though we didn't know each other through that, but but he so
• 9:23
  growing up he'd always been encouraging of being technical.
• 9:25
  Hold on, your dad worked for Bizarre Voice?
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  Yeah, yeah. Holy moly, I don't think you and
• 9:30
  I ever talked about that. It's, I mean, it's incredible
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  forever ago, right? But.
• 9:35
  I really have been at this for a long time.
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  It's not for don't worry, we're not doing that math either.
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  But yeah, so I've, yeah, I've just been around like tech and
• 9:45
  so my dad was really encouraging of tech, but not forceful.
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  And so I end up going to UT to study business.
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  Started as a marketing major and my first summer I got an
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  internship at Indeed. OK, cool.
• 10:00
  I'm just about to record Chris Hines.
• 10:01
  Yep, he is. He's going to be amazing on the
• 10:04
  podcast, no doubt. Wild story actually worked next
• 10:06
  to his daughter and the and that first summer I kept looking over
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  because she did a different internship than I did and I was
• 10:12
  like. This is at dated out world.
• 10:13
  Yeah, no, this was at indeed at. Indeed OK, because.
• 10:16
  Because he also was at worked at.
• 10:19
  I know it's, it's crazy how many things have overlapped, but I
• 10:24
  remember looking over at her, what she was doing and I was
• 10:27
  like, I like what I'm doing, but that's cooler.
• 10:29
  And what she was doing was basically coding applied to some
• 10:32
  of the marketing problems that they're doing.
• 10:34
  So that became my like, I just was hooked.
• 10:37
  And so, you know, Fast forward, Fast forward, I basically ended
• 10:40
  up through college taking the marketing classes, but then on
• 10:44
  the side teaching myself data science and to code.
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  And then I had an amazing opportunity at data dot world to
• 10:52
  like flex a lot of those skills and do projects.
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  Remember I did this like FOIA app thing that was like the
• 10:58
  coolest project ever that I got to do.
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  And so I ended up being this really accelerant of like places
• 11:06
  where business and data science could merge.
• 11:09
  That ended up then landing me an internship at Facebook in there,
• 11:15
  the AI R&D team that works on their marketing ads stack.
• 11:21
  So like if you could have written down the, you know, the
• 11:23
  job description to a tee that I was uniquely qualified for, it
• 11:27
  was really that. Yeah.
• 11:29
  And that was an amazing opportunity.
• 11:32
  We got to really like pick what we worked on, which is wild to
• 11:36
  be like as an intern. And then fresh out of school, I
• 11:38
  went back and the things I ended up picking to work on by just
• 11:44
  the chance of the world ended up getting me exposed to language
• 11:47
  models, right? They weren't really, I think we
• 11:51
  felt like they were large then, but clearly they were not large
• 11:53
  right in the scale of all this. Like we were using world to vec.
• 11:58
  I don't know if you've heard of that, but just.
• 12:00
  I haven't that, you know, Brian Jacob has.
• 12:03
  Oh yeah. We, we nerded out so much about
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  this. And so my mind was blown back
• 12:09
  then. And that's just, I've just kind
• 12:12
  of been hooked on this. Like I got an intersection
• 12:14
  between business and data science, although now it's
• 12:18
  really evolved right into this, the whole field of generative
• 12:21
  AI. And yeah, it's, it's ended up
• 12:26
  opening up so many doors and opportunities.
• 12:28
  So, so that's kind of how I learned like the foundation of
• 12:32
  everything that's going on. But it wasn't really until I
• 12:35
  left Facebook, I really wanted to get into like building
• 12:39
  products and building things again.
• 12:41
  And so I had an amazing mentor who was like, just go do a
• 12:44
  startup and if it doesn't work out, you can boomerang back and
• 12:47
  we'll hire you back. Like the problem which is so
• 12:48
  nice cuz I needed that little like.
• 12:50
  That is really. Nice too.
• 12:51
  I need to push, you know, and so I did that.
• 12:55
  I went and I left and started. I was really passionate about
• 12:59
  problems that the wine industry was having, you know, and we've
• 13:03
  talked about this in the past, but as contacts, it was with
• 13:06
  this vision to go create like a Shopify equivalent for wineries
• 13:12
  where we would help wineries sell wine online cause alcohol
• 13:16
  regulations are complicated, but also they don't have time to
• 13:20
  like run their business, do online marketing, you know,
• 13:23
  learn about SEO, any of the stuff.
• 13:25
  So we were using language models to generate e-mail marketing for
• 13:30
  them, generate social media posts for them and all that
• 13:32
  stuff. And and so that was a start up I
• 13:34
  end up doing and just got to see again like how you apply this
• 13:38
  technology to some of those problems and taught me a lot.
• 13:43
  But all of this was pre ChatGPT. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:45
  And so I could have never predicted what came next, right?
• 13:49
  Like it just still blows my mind even the timing of it.
• 13:52
  Yeah. Because that business, we ended
• 13:55
  up selling it in November of 2022 and.
• 13:59
  That was a very fateful time. November 30th, 2022 was the
• 14:03
  launch. Of that GPD and the even funnier
• 14:07
  part, which, you know, I'm sure some people will resonate with,
• 14:09
  you know, like when you've been working on something really hard
• 14:11
  and they, you're kind of you wrap it up.
• 14:13
  What do you want to do? You want to take like a break,
• 14:15
  right to be there. And so I remember people like
• 14:19
  the black people I was working with were asking like, what are
• 14:22
  you doing next? What are you doing next?
• 14:23
  Like, you know, kind of ready for me to like jump back on the
• 14:25
  horse and do the next thing. And I was like, you know, I, I
• 14:28
  need a break right as my, my thoughts.
• 14:29
  So I was like, what is the most absurd thing I could tell people
• 14:33
  that I'm going to do that Then they'll be like, oh, OK.
• 14:36
  And then I can kind of use that to just have my own time.
• 14:38
  So I said, I'm going to become a TikTok influencer, right?
• 14:41
  That was what I said as a joke to people, right?
• 14:44
  Right. And then I'm somebody that like,
• 14:46
  I need to commit to whatever I say I'm going to do.
• 14:49
  So I started posting on TikTok like November 1st and I got all
• 14:54
  the bad dancing videos. Like I, I, I've kept them up.
• 14:57
  So they're still on my TikTok. Way, way back.
• 15:00
  I was like dancing. I was talking about AI, talking
• 15:02
  about startups. I remember saying, like, there's
• 15:05
  this crazy thing the world doesn't know exists yet, which
• 15:08
  is that you can tell AI what you want and it'll write things for
• 15:12
  you. But I didn't even have the idea
• 15:13
  to like show people it. Like I just was telling them
• 15:16
  like sound like a crazy person. But all of that got me reps to.
• 15:21
  Then whenever Chachi BT came out I was already talking about AI
• 15:24
  on TikTok and it just exploded. I got like over 100,000
• 15:29
  followers in the first like 3 months.
• 15:32
  So then I was so funny. I got flown out to Microsoft for
• 15:36
  the copilot, another copilot, the Bing AI release that was
• 15:41
  like their whole big thing. I remember being there in a room
• 15:44
  of like 100 journalists and there was like 10 influencers
• 15:48
  who'd all been doing it for 10 years.
• 15:50
  And I'm like, I've been doing this for three months, right,
• 15:52
  Right. You.
• 15:53
  Have no idea the bet I made with my friends.
• 15:55
  Yeah, I'm like, but I really, really.
• 15:58
  Your friends are like. Don't bet against Rachel,
• 16:00
  however. So it just ended up being this
• 16:03
  crazy thing and crazy time. And I started, I, I on TikTok,
• 16:11
  you can put like a link on your page in your bio and people have
• 16:15
  a habit of just going and seeing what, what you offer, right?
• 16:18
  So I remember I put in there a calendly link that people could
• 16:23
  pay $100 to spend an hour with me just asking questions about
• 16:27
  AI. And I didn't even like tell
• 16:29
  anybody that it was there. And I booked out the first like,
• 16:33
  I think it was almost like 2 months of time, like pretty much
• 16:37
  overnight. I think it was a couple days
• 16:38
  and. Just once again underpricing
• 16:40
  yourself. I know.
• 16:41
  Yeah, now, Now it's from 30. Dollars to 200 bucks an.
• 16:45
  Hour because I was also like, what?
• 16:47
  I don't know. People are going to ask me like,
• 16:48
  you know. People are going to click on
• 16:50
  that link. Yeah, but I also got like, I got
• 16:52
  so much, you know, perspective for what this meant to people.
• 16:57
  And, you know, one thing led to another.
• 17:00
  We started starting a, we started a community.
• 17:03
  We started offering more just educational resources and, and
• 17:08
  so it's been a big part of what we do now.
• 17:10
  But the, if I go all the way back to the start of like my
• 17:16
  journey as an entrepreneur has been a lot of like having a big
• 17:19
  vision and wanting to go after the big things.
• 17:23
  And I'm pretty operational. So like I also build the plans
• 17:26
  to get there. But you know, sometimes the
• 17:28
  frustration of like, man, this is going to be a lot more work
• 17:31
  or a lot more grind or like this is just, it takes a lot to go
• 17:35
  after big things, right? And sometimes, you know, I, I
• 17:38
  joke sometimes my least favorite word is prioritize, right?
• 17:43
  And that actually ended up being how we started really thinking
• 17:48
  about AI for like the people that we were serving and the
• 17:53
  people that we were creating content for.
• 17:55
  Was that like, how do you apply AI to that problem in business
• 17:59
  of wanting to go have a huge impact, but being stuck in the
• 18:03
  day-to-day operations? And you know, one thing that led
• 18:08
  to another, We started developing a lot of techniques
• 18:10
  of like, how do you actually teach AI how to do stuff so that
• 18:14
  you can set it up, it can do it reliably and you can go do
• 18:17
  something else, go do what's next, figure out what the next
• 18:19
  innovation is. And that ended up becoming AI
• 18:22
  operations. Yeah.
• 18:23
  So you put the 2 words together. I mean, it reminds me a lot of
• 18:26
  when I started core metrics and core metrics.
• 18:30
  I would hear the word we need to get to the core metrics of this
• 18:36
  business problem. And I would hear it over and
• 18:38
  over again. And it was like a muse.
• 18:41
  And I was like, that's it. That's the name of the company.
• 18:44
  And that was one of the first web analytics companies in the
• 18:46
  world. Yeah.
• 18:47
  And it's so funny. I remember distinctly when we
• 18:50
  were trying to figure out to call it, we had a little pow
• 18:53
  wow, like I think we were pizza. And we were just sitting there,
• 18:56
  like, whiteboarding and typing up different names and, like,
• 19:00
  testing things out because it felt too obvious to call it AI
• 19:03
  operations, right. And then finally, just like, why
• 19:06
  are we, like, overthinking this? This is literally the AI version
• 19:09
  of operations. Yeah.
• 19:11
  And yeah, what's been incredible is just also seeing how that's
• 19:15
  then LED into people really understanding this and grasping
• 19:21
  it more quickly who have an operations background.
• 19:23
  And that's something that's really important to me is people
• 19:25
  realizing that they actually have already a lot of the skills
• 19:28
  that they need to be successful with AI.
• 19:30
  They just need this one little right next level.
• 19:34
  And so we get to do a lot of that in our work.
• 19:36
  Yeah, that's so cool. And what are some of the most
• 19:40
  transformational, I, I guess you'd call it engagement you've
• 19:45
  been on? At this point, I sound very much
• 19:47
  like a consultant. But before I became an
• 19:50
  entrepreneur, I worked at at Deloitte Consulting.
• 19:53
  And before that I worked at Accenture.
• 19:54
  So I became an entrepreneur at age 24.
• 19:57
  I waited. I waited a little while.
• 20:01
  But yeah, what what would you, you know, like the ones where
• 20:04
  you were just like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool that we're doing
• 20:06
  this with this customer. Our work does range a lot,
• 20:10
  especially nowadays. We actually predominantly train
• 20:13
  teams how to build the stuff themselves.
• 20:14
  And I'll say that's where there is a lot more Wow.
• 20:18
  Because you see even a team just thinking differently about what
• 20:22
  they can do even right now immediately comes to mind.
• 20:26
  We have a client we're working with that they help produce
• 20:31
  courses in the kind of like corporate world for really
• 20:36
  important trainings, like they're really high profile,
• 20:38
  important topics and just what they've learned through how to
• 20:43
  think operationally about AI. Their team's actually kind of
• 20:46
  completely rethinking their workflow and yeah, like even
• 20:53
  they're talking about changing the offers of how they're even
• 20:57
  like working with clients. So there's a lot of like just
• 20:59
  enabling people to think differently.
• 21:01
  And then you start to see like they piece their work together
• 21:05
  in a different way. But then especially the last
• 21:10
  couple years before the technology has gotten so good,
• 21:13
  we were doing a lot of like go into a company, figure out their
• 21:16
  processes, implement it, get AI to, you know, run those
• 21:20
  processes, we call them playbooks, and then set that up
• 21:23
  and everything for them. And I think the same thing
• 21:26
  there. Like we say, a lot of people
• 21:28
  taking like services that they offer and completely rethinking
• 21:32
  it. One that I know really was mind
• 21:37
  blowing for the team was an influencer marketing agency who
• 21:41
  again, worked with like really high profile brands that had
• 21:46
  really strong requirements for what types of influencers they
• 21:51
  could work with. So much so that their team was
• 21:54
  having to manually go to like Instagram and make sure that
• 21:57
  there weren't like salads being posted by this influencer
• 22:01
  because this is going to be for a fast food brand or like this
• 22:04
  different things. They were kind of wild, but they
• 22:07
  had this really, really in depth process.
• 22:09
  It would take them like anywhere from two to six weeks to find
• 22:12
  influencers to match these brands.
• 22:15
  We're able to teach that entire process by writing out those
• 22:18
  playbooks to AI. So the AI could go and do all of
• 22:21
  that analysis vetting they're able to run then overnight
• 22:26
  they're able to then not even have to like they're doing an
• 22:29
  initial filtering from the first list to then have the 100 to go
• 22:33
  look into. Now they just run it on the
• 22:35
  first list, which is like, so they're looking at that 10,000
• 22:38
  influencers instead of having to filter stuff down.
• 22:41
  So, but what they've done with that and this is what is
• 22:44
  important to us is like, OK, great, you save all this time.
• 22:47
  Now what are you know, now what now what next?
• 22:50
  And they change completely how they're structuring their
• 22:53
  engagements with their clients. And then their team is actually
• 22:59
  basically improving how the engagements themselves go 'cause
• 23:02
  they have now all this like free time to support the campaigns
• 23:07
  more. So, yeah.
• 23:08
  And I could tell there's so many stories of that, but it's like,
• 23:10
  that's cool. Just you take something that is
• 23:13
  really operationally intensive and that's usually been the
• 23:15
  bottleneck in business of going after things is like, we have to
• 23:18
  have the time and the resources to do it.
• 23:20
  And now you can just teach AI those processes and then, yeah,
• 23:26
  focus on what's next. And you know, you also started a
• 23:28
  community as well, right? So tell, tell us about that.
• 23:32
  Yeah. So at this up to the state, we
• 23:35
  have I think over 3000 people that are in our AI operations
• 23:39
  community and pretty big community.
• 23:41
  A lot of people that have previous like this is their
• 23:46
  first time going out into the world and doing consulting,
• 23:50
  building even their own agencies or different businesses.
• 23:53
  We have a lot of people that are offering AI operations to
• 23:55
  people, so they're able to connect.
• 23:57
  A lot of people have actually built partnerships or started
• 24:02
  companies from people they've met inside our community.
• 24:06
  And then we get to go really deep and train people on really
• 24:11
  the exact methodology we use in our work with clients.
• 24:15
  We train people to do that so they can go do it for clients
• 24:18
  they work with or inside their teams.
• 24:21
  And so that's really fun. And those, those are the people
• 24:23
  that are, you know, we all wear the AI operator hats, right?
• 24:26
  Because we're, we're the nerds about like process.
• 24:29
  You make the process and if you write it out, then again, you
• 24:33
  can now hand that to AI and AI does the process.
• 24:35
  You don't have to do it. How do you get, how do you join
• 24:38
  that community so. That community is called the AI
• 24:40
  Exchange, and we just have a website.
• 24:44
  You can go and learn more. Yeah.
• 24:45
  OK, cool. We'll put it.
• 24:47
  We'll put a link there. And where do you see AI
• 24:52
  operations going because the models are becoming so capable?
• 24:57
  I mean, one thesis I have is that every company that is of,
• 25:03
  you know, a decent size, I don't know what the cut off would be.
• 25:06
  But let's just say 100 people or more, maybe it's 1000 people or
• 25:10
  more is going to need a head of AI operations.
• 25:16
  Definitely, yeah, because I would say every company needs
• 25:18
  it. Just every company.
• 25:19
  So. And that's why even.
• 25:21
  Even if they don't call that person that, this might be like
• 25:23
  one of the hats they wear. Yeah.
• 25:25
  So that's why we have hats because we really do even if
• 25:29
  you're, I mean if you're a solopreneur, you're wearing that
• 25:31
  hat. That's true.
• 25:32
  You can't get away with not. And So what we even see is
• 25:37
  probably at like AI think our clients that are around 30
• 25:41
  people is when it starts becoming its own job title.
• 25:44
  And when I think about what the future of even like, let's say a
• 25:49
  30 person team looks like, it's probably that they have 5 AI
• 25:54
  operators. It's it's not that they can have
• 25:57
  this be one role because it's, it's so there's so much
• 26:01
  potential to make it so pivotal and the foundation of how the
• 26:05
  business runs, right? Yeah.
• 26:06
  And I think that this scales up, you know, we've done trainings
• 26:09
  with Fortune 50 companies and, you know, we usually work in a,
• 26:14
  in a department that kind of has its own AI training initiatives.
• 26:17
  And, you know, we were just working with one that they gave
• 26:21
  someone the official title of AI operations.
• 26:24
  Two months after our training, that person actually reached out
• 26:26
  to me and I just got to have a little like career call with
• 26:29
  them and like crushing it, right?
• 26:30
  Like they're playbooking across the business.
• 26:33
  They're now teaching the heads of smaller teams how to do AI
• 26:37
  operations more and going deeper.
• 26:39
  It's just going to be a foundation of how they'll
• 26:43
  they'll be this hat in every business and it'll be so
• 26:46
  foundational to how they run. But it's not the only hat.
• 26:49
  So I could talk about that. Yeah, well.
• 26:51
  Well, yeah, tell me. Yeah.
• 26:52
  Yeah. So I think a common
• 26:55
  misconception people have is that everybody needs to learn
• 26:58
  how to like build the most complex agents.
• 27:02
  And if you're not building these things and operating these
• 27:05
  things, then you're going to be kind of left behind.
• 27:07
  And what we've seen is again, I'm a believer of like you
• 27:10
  already have both previous experience and natural skill
• 27:15
  sets that there is a hat that needs that in this AI operated
• 27:22
  world. And so the AI operations person
• 27:26
  or AI operator is really the operations minded, process
• 27:29
  minded, you know, project manager, like on the ground
• 27:31
  details, setting things up. There's also what are we even
• 27:35
  working on? Where's the business going?
• 27:38
  How can I reimagine? You know, I just gave examples
• 27:40
  of reimagining services. How can we reimagine what we
• 27:44
  deliver as a company that really is this hat the AI visionary.
• 27:47
  Yeah. And you know, you definitely
• 27:49
  still need to be. I'm feeling very good about my
• 27:51
  AI visionary hat here. Yeah.
• 27:53
  I mean, you for sure are the visionaries that you guys say.
• 27:56
  I did say, yeah, probably one of the people most deserving of
• 27:59
  that hat. Thank you, that means a ton
• 28:01
  coming from you. It but if you just look at like
• 28:05
  how much vision you have had and what, you know, the companies
• 28:08
  that you've built, that same thing applies in this whole next
• 28:13
  World. And I think that yeah, we try to
• 28:17
  just really encourage people to think of that.
• 28:19
  The third hat though, that I think is also really underrated
• 28:23
  is the subject matter expert. So this is the person that is
• 28:28
  extremely good at their craft, right?
• 28:30
  I think of let's have a simple example of a copywriter because
• 28:33
  a lot of people think about using AI to write, you know,
• 28:36
  copy marketing materials. A really good copywriter that
• 28:41
  has learned enough about how AI works, has a workflow that can
• 28:47
  make infinitely better copy, higher performing, you know,
• 28:52
  talks to the target audience, can scale to different segments.
• 28:56
  Like they understand the core expertise behind copywriting
• 29:02
  that. Then when they add AI to that,
• 29:04
  they're scaling what they already know.
• 29:06
  And it is so much better than what these models are able to do
• 29:10
  on their own. Even they are getting better and
• 29:13
  better, but they're still trained to go towards average.
• 29:17
  And great, great things in the world aren't average, right?
• 29:20
  Right. And so that that subject matter
• 29:23
  expert, what we find is that is actually an amazing person to
• 29:28
  pair with an AI operator where like that person, the subject
• 29:32
  matter expert is like figuring out, let's set up this, let's
• 29:35
  get AI to do this. They're kind of almost like the
• 29:37
  prototyper of things. And then the AI operator can
• 29:40
  help make make it buckled up, make it really work, make it not
• 29:43
  error, make it stick to the rules all the time and really
• 29:46
  operate. And so if you have those three
• 29:48
  hats, that is a powerhouse team, right?
• 29:51
  And you have people leaning into their actual real backgrounds
• 29:54
  and strengths. So yeah, I could say a lot more
• 29:56
  on that, but that is I think something that's really
• 29:58
  important that people don't necessarily talk about as much
• 30:01
  right now. Yeah, I think that I think
• 30:03
  that's a really important point. And you know, I was, I was
• 30:07
  actually presenting at one of our big customers dated out
• 30:11
  world. I guess I was about a year and a
• 30:14
  half ago about AI operations. And one of the things that that
• 30:21
  they said that they were facing a lot of internal resistance was
• 30:26
  with the subject matter experts because they were like, they
• 30:30
  just think they're going to get replaced.
• 30:32
  Like, you know, that that a is, is going to subsume their
• 30:35
  subject matter expertise and then there's not going to be a
• 30:39
  role for them. And I told them, I actually
• 30:44
  think the barrier to creativity is being shattered right now and
• 30:48
  you need to paint that vision versus the job replacement
• 30:52
  vision. Now, two things can be true at
• 30:54
  the same time, but I think that the best companies are actually
• 31:01
  going to use this AI moment to not replace jobs, but to
• 31:07
  redeploy jobs. Absolutely.
• 31:09
  Meaning that, that, OK, perfect. I'm, I'm glad you agree with
• 31:12
  that. I mean, I, I, I was, I, I really
• 31:13
  want to drill down on that with you.
• 31:15
  But the, the reason I believe that is like, there's so many
• 31:18
  things that, you know, I've run companies for a long time.
• 31:21
  I've been entrepreneur, you know, for 30 years and I've and
• 31:25
  Deborah and I are investors in 150 startups, 50 VC funds.
• 31:28
  So I've seen a I've seen a lot, and there's so many things that
• 31:33
  you want to do as an entrepreneur.
• 31:35
  There's so many new products you want to come out with.
• 31:37
  It's always frustrating to me that I can't.
• 31:42
  The team only has so much capacity and as the CEO you're
• 31:47
  trying to push with love, but you don't want to push to a
• 31:53
  breaking point because then everything, just like
• 31:57
  everything, you know, shatters at that point.
• 31:59
  And so I was always trying to ride this line in any company I
• 32:04
  was running and, and, and advising, you know, CE OS that
• 32:07
  we invest in. So, you know, now you can come
• 32:10
  out with new products, you can come out with, you can go into
• 32:13
  new markets that you've always wanted to go into because the
• 32:16
  the friction of doing so is really going down dramatically.
• 32:19
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, so we have a concept we
• 32:22
  talk to teens about all the time, which is what would you be
• 32:26
  doing if you had unlimited time because that's what you should
• 32:29
  be focused on. That is the job now, right?
• 32:32
  And I think it's like people kind of need to unlearn again,
• 32:38
  prioritization, Yes, you still need to prioritize, but it's a
• 32:41
  different math equation When you're looking at projects that
• 32:45
  used to take three months and now they can get done in half a
• 32:47
  day is a completely different way to look at business and
• 32:52
  teams. And so if you're an expert at
• 32:55
  something and you're somebody who's hungry and has had the
• 32:58
  whole To Do List of someday, someday, someday, or I wish we
• 33:01
  could do this, like this is your moment, right, to be able to get
• 33:05
  AI to help you make all of that possible.
• 33:08
  And I believe that there's so many more problems in the world
• 33:12
  that need solving and could be solved if we did have unlimited
• 33:15
  time. Oh.
• 33:16
  I'm I'm with you on that. That is probably one of the
• 33:18
  biggest mindset shifts we get people to really make whenever
• 33:21
  we're training them, which is like, you have so much more
• 33:26
  opportunity and we just need you to see that.
• 33:29
  This is the meta theme for Love Conquers Fear is like a in this
• 33:34
  AI moment, we have to realize that we can seize abundance.
• 33:39
  You know, we have the free will and there's so many problems to
• 33:42
  solve. I mean, you know, like the, the,
• 33:45
  the resistance to that, that theme.
• 33:49
  It's it is fear that that's the resistance to that theme.
• 33:53
  Like what are we going to lose? And you need you need to keep
• 33:56
  things on, on the rails in some ways.
• 34:00
  But, you know, let's not pretend that we don't have a world where
• 34:04
  we have an exploding need for energy.
• 34:07
  And and how much we could manifest in a country like Chad
• 34:10
  if we had a world of unlimited energy just through the material
• 34:14
  science science breakthrough needed to capture the energy of
• 34:17
  the sun, 18 seconds of the sun's rays that fall on Earth, 18
• 34:23
  seconds, if we could capture it would power America's energy
• 34:26
  needs for over a year. Yeah.
• 34:28
  I mean, and, and, and you know, what happened with Alpha fold
• 34:32
  for sure is going to happen with material sciences and so many
• 34:37
  other areas. And this is, this is the path,
• 34:41
  but with, with, with, with AI operations.
• 34:45
  Do you see, you know, I guess, I guess how do you see like you
• 34:50
  helping these companies bridge over this next, let's just call
• 34:54
  it even three years. I mean, that's even hard to
• 34:57
  project, right? Because we're in this
• 34:58
  exponential of exponential curves.
• 35:00
  But but how do you, how do you, how do you see your
• 35:04
  responsibility, you and your team's responsibility with them
• 35:09
  kind of landing the plane, so to speak and being real expert with
• 35:13
  AI? There are a lot of pieces to
• 35:15
  this. I think that one of the things
• 35:18
  that I just fundamentally believe as a person is that
• 35:22
  everybody should have the opportunity to participate and
• 35:25
  everybody should have the opportunity to like compete to
• 35:27
  win, right? And, and I think that's, you
• 35:32
  know, especially when early days all this blew up, there were a
• 35:37
  lot of opportunities to go join in different, you know, really
• 35:40
  large organizations doing different, you know, big things.
• 35:45
  But what I just think is so important and, and almost so
• 35:52
  like deep that it's hard to describe is, yeah, just that we
• 35:56
  have a future where there's the diversity of thought and
• 35:59
  opinions. And I think that like small
• 36:02
  business in particular is an amazing place where that thrives
• 36:06
  because you have this nucleus of people that are doing something
• 36:11
  different, right? And that's how they are creating
• 36:13
  value in the world. And so to empower that and make
• 36:18
  sure that that sticks around, I think is is just pretty like
• 36:21
  core to me and like what I believe.
• 36:24
  But then more tactically, I think that it's really hard to
• 36:28
  navigate right now, especially I like to joke because I have a
• 36:33
  lot of friends who are in the marketing teams at these really
• 36:34
  big AI, you know, companies, but man, they're all paid so well
• 36:38
  because they just market from the rooftops.
• 36:40
  So this is the this is the new thing that if you don't learn
• 36:44
  this thing this week, you will be, you know, you'll get left
• 36:47
  behind if you're not trying blah blah blah 5.4 if you're not
• 36:51
  trying agent 3 like it's it's just.
• 36:54
  It's soma fear of messing up. Yeah, and it's so loud.
• 36:57
  And again, I, I think they're all really good at it, getting
• 37:00
  paid a lot, but that's really hard to navigate when you have a
• 37:05
  day job and you have expectations already on you.
• 37:09
  You're probably already burnt out, You're already spread thin.
• 37:12
  Like that's how most people are in their roles and then have
• 37:15
  this like fear in the background.
• 37:17
  Like that is just not a healthy place to be, right?
• 37:19
  And it's kind of been like that for the last three years.
• 37:23
  I think what is changing a lot right now is the technology is
• 37:26
  getting so much easier to use. So even our model has changed
• 37:30
  from the like, we'll come and do it and embed someone in your
• 37:33
  team, you know, that knows how to do this for you versus again,
• 37:36
  now we can teach anybody how to playbook their work, which is
• 37:41
  just how to think through what is your process?
• 37:43
  You probably didn't realize you have a process, but how do we
• 37:46
  help you realize you have a process?
• 37:48
  Yeah. How do you think that through?
• 37:49
  Write that down. Treat AI like, you know, you're
• 37:54
  the best intern you could ever imagine, that as long as you're
• 37:56
  specific, it's going to be able to go do those things for you
• 37:59
  and get people to kind of see that.
• 38:02
  Aha. And then the second part is
• 38:05
  helping them really prioritize momentum.
• 38:08
  So I think that's another thing that's been really hard in AI is
• 38:11
  everybody's of course it's business like we care about ROI
• 38:15
  for sure. But if we're just going after
• 38:17
  the hardest problems, which typically are the ones that the
• 38:20
  highest ROI, then we're setting ourselves up for being new at
• 38:25
  something and going after the hardest version of what we are
• 38:27
  new at. And so, you know, things like
• 38:29
  how do we just start, start again, what we call it
• 38:32
  playbooking? How do we just start playbooking
• 38:34
  our work and build up the way of thinking about work this way?
• 38:39
  And that's what actually gets people to feel like now
• 38:42
  unlimited time is possible. And so that's really what we're
• 38:44
  focused on is like taking teams and we work really hands on with
• 38:47
  teams like, or on calls where, you know, responding to their
• 38:52
  questions, we're reviewing their playbooks like we're really
• 38:54
  hands on getting them kind of through that call, launching
• 38:57
  them. And that's that's a lot of what
• 38:58
  we do. Yeah.
• 39:00
  What do you love the most about doing this?
• 39:03
  That's a really hard question, I think.
• 39:09
  I think the aha moment when somebody realizes that they
• 39:14
  actually do have an opinion of what AI should do for them.
• 39:18
  Yeah. And that they have the power to
• 39:22
  tell it to do it that way. And then them to draw the dotted
• 39:26
  line out to like, I just for everything.
• 39:29
  I just that'll just never get old.
• 39:31
  It's so it's been so impactful for me even the way that I run
• 39:38
  my life and my business. And again, back to like, you
• 39:44
  know, I'm a pretty operational person.
• 39:46
  I have never felt more capable operationally in what we're
• 39:51
  going after and how I can like support our team and everything
• 39:53
  that I do now because I'm playbooking everything right.
• 39:57
  And I'm like, like as a team, we playbook everything we're.
• 40:01
  And so I think like we've experienced that.
• 40:03
  And so it's really amazing to just get to see that in other
• 40:06
  people. How, how is this?
• 40:07
  I mean, you know, you're on the front lines of seeing this in in
• 40:11
  companies, but how is it personally affected your work
• 40:15
  like in you being the CEO of your company?
• 40:19
  I, I, I'm, I'm kind of envisioning, I've got this image
• 40:22
  in my mind. If you're like, you're like, you
• 40:25
  know, in Fantasia, just like animating.
• 40:28
  Yeah, but it's just command tab, Tab, Tab, Tab, Yes, Tab.
• 40:31
  Yes, Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 40:33
  So, so funny. I meant to pick my laptop today
• 40:36
  and I was charging and I forgot to bring because I wanted to
• 40:38
  show you. But I'll have to.
• 40:39
  I'll have to get on Zoom or something at some point.
• 40:41
  But it's completely changed my life and how and even the last
• 40:45
  four months, it has been a complete ramp up from everything
• 40:49
  before that, right? Again, because the technology's
• 40:52
  there where it's so easy to do this stuff, which is actually a
• 40:56
  good moment for like a shameless call out if you have not tried
• 41:01
  making a custom GPT or a clod skill yet that yeah, do that.
• 41:06
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's it.
• 41:08
  Yeah, Yeah. I was early and I I think that
• 41:11
  I'm. Sure.
• 41:11
  I know. I know you.
• 41:12
  But I'm saying anybody like listening because it's like,
• 41:14
  yeah, for sure. Because my, my life runs on this
• 41:16
  stuff. Yeah.
• 41:17
  And so like my morning routine, I go into, you know, my chat and
• 41:23
  I say todaying. And what does it do?
• 41:26
  It goes to my calendar, figures out everything I have for that
• 41:28
  day. It knows how to detect which
• 41:30
  things are sales calls or external calls, and then it
• 41:33
  calls other playbooks which will either research external people
• 41:36
  and figure out what I should know about them, what they're
• 41:38
  talking about, or so they even surfaced some podcast episodes
• 41:42
  for me to listen to for today or for sales calls.
• 41:46
  It'll pull up for my HubSpot and get the whole overview of where
• 41:51
  that relationship is at. It'll then go into our teams,
• 41:55
  click up and give me a whole inventory of everything that you
• 41:59
  know I have on my plate. The joke used to be like, I am
• 42:02
  someone who wants to do a lot all the time.
• 42:04
  So I would constantly have stuff that was like overdue and click
• 42:07
  up once. I have like nowadays, once the
• 42:12
  AI pulls it and knows it's due today, it then says, do you want
• 42:14
  me to start on this? And then I have another playbook
• 42:17
  that will go and actually start doing it.
• 42:19
  It'll do the whole project, plan it out for me, execute it, and
• 42:22
  then it'll say and here are the things that I think you should
• 42:25
  review. Then I go back to the Today and
• 42:27
  it's pulling all of that into one document where I can also
• 42:30
  put my brain dump of other things.
• 42:31
  Like this is a morning routine that used to be probably if I
• 42:37
  did it fully, it would maybe be two hours every morning.
• 42:39
  Like it's a lot of stuff. I never did it.
• 42:41
  Like I was always trying my best.
• 42:43
  Right now this takes me about 10 minutes.
• 42:45
  And so I can do that for anything.
• 42:49
  How we're thinking about new marketing campaign, how we're
• 42:52
  thinking about a new service we're offering.
• 42:55
  I'm thinking about a phrase we like as unreasonable
• 42:58
  hospitality. How can we just over deliver
• 43:01
  like crazy and help people really get the value as much as
• 43:04
  possible as fast as possible using it for that?
• 43:07
  Like I just can't imagine not like operating this way anymore.
• 43:12
  Yeah. You know, you, you and I are,
• 43:15
  are both in tech and, and I'm curious like if you were not in
• 43:21
  tech. And I think it's important that
• 43:23
  we put this out as a bulletin. Like let's say that let's say
• 43:28
  you and I had a plumbing business together.
• 43:32
  Let's let's, let's make it simple for the plumbing business
• 43:36
  because I think that if the plumbing business was super AI
• 43:41
  enabled, they'd be like the best plumbing business around, you
• 43:45
  know? Yeah, like so how would you, how
• 43:47
  would you use it as as the plumbing business operator?
• 43:51
  Let's imagine we're the owner, right?
• 43:52
  The first thing I would do is probably look at how I'm running
• 43:57
  like my life and, you know, my responsibilities in the
• 44:00
  business. You know, a lot of people will
• 44:03
  go in, hire assistants, you know, or chiefs of staff for
• 44:08
  people that help them kind of get stuff done.
• 44:11
  The thing I've always heard about, I know who's done that is
• 44:13
  like that person's plate filled up a bunch and then they're
• 44:16
  like, man, I need a second person.
• 44:17
  I get third person, right? So use that same mindset to
• 44:22
  think about how you could start giving some of those things to
• 44:25
  AI, right? Something else you can do is if
• 44:28
  you do already have an assistant, have them help you.
• 44:30
  They would be a really great AI operator.
• 44:32
  Have them help you set up these processes in AI so that you can
• 44:37
  start having things you're already doing just turn into I
• 44:42
  put one word into chat or Claude and it just does all of this
• 44:48
  stuff for me, right and. I mean, training new plumbers
• 44:53
  you could create complete like distillations of how they get
• 44:57
  ramped up. Totally.
• 44:59
  Let's say you're marketing, you're interviewing a lot of
• 45:01
  people. Then really easy thing too, if
• 45:04
  you're not already doing this, is like having some sort of way
• 45:07
  that you're recording calls or conversations because you can
• 45:11
  take that transcript and put that in AI and AI could run your
• 45:16
  process for evaluating people, which also means maybe you don't
• 45:20
  have to be the one interviewing everybody.
• 45:22
  You have somebody else on your team interview and then the AI
• 45:25
  is helping you kinda build a summary of the different
• 45:28
  conversations. As as well as get feedback to
• 45:32
  the interviewer. Exactly.
• 45:33
  Yep. We use those types of like
• 45:35
  rubric based evaluators, so we call those playbooks all the
• 45:39
  time. Yeah.
• 45:41
  And yeah, I really just think about anything.
• 45:43
  If you could have a magic wand, have an assistant, right, Those
• 45:46
  are things that you could start getting.
• 45:49
  Test how different marketing campaigns identify different
• 45:53
  regions of the city to go after, and what message do you go after
• 45:58
  those regions with? I mean, there's like a anything
• 46:02
  you can. Pretty much think of answering
• 46:04
  emails, customer support emails. It can help with scheduling.
• 46:07
  If you need to do scheduling where you're like finding times
• 46:10
  on the calendar, it can do that for you.
• 46:12
  It can also help you build schedules.
• 46:16
  So if you have like, let's say your whole team and you need to
• 46:20
  manage everybody's, you know, family vacation and so and so
• 46:23
  sick, it could do all of that for you.
• 46:25
  Yeah, there's just anything that you could.
• 46:29
  I mean, a plumber on site, they see a piece of equipment that
• 46:32
  they're not familiar with yet. All the technology manuals,
• 46:39
  including for toilets and everything else are, are in the
• 46:42
  content at this point. And you know, it's, it's, it's
• 46:47
  incredible. Like how you can, you know,
• 46:49
  we've, we've done this ourselves.
• 46:51
  Like how you can just fix something on your own because
• 46:53
  you now have the whole manual for how that thing works.
• 46:57
  And worth mentioning too, even if let's say you have a
• 47:00
  specialization where you work with some sort of equipment that
• 47:05
  actually AI doesn't know very well.
• 47:08
  Well, what training material did you give your new team members?
• 47:12
  You know, do you have guides? Do you have resources you could
• 47:17
  give those to AI and you could set those up so then your team
• 47:21
  could be chatting with those specifically?
• 47:23
  That's right. So there's, yeah, there's so
• 47:26
  many opportunities. Yeah.
• 47:28
  And, and you know, the, the thing to just reframe the way
• 47:31
  people think about this is that, you know, you're communicating
• 47:35
  in English, assuming that's your primary language to an AI that
• 47:44
  has assumed all the content in every language.
• 47:48
  And so let's say that you're, you know, you're, you're, you go
• 47:52
  to someone's house and they're lucky enough to have one of
• 47:55
  those fancy Japanese that like are, are like opening on their
• 48:00
  own and everything else. Like that's one thing that's
• 48:02
  fascinating. When we did the Japan, they're
• 48:05
  all over the place in Japan. Well, you know, that content on
• 48:11
  everything about how those function is in Japanese, but
• 48:17
  you're just communicating with that content in English.
• 48:20
  I mean, it's, I've had so many mind blowing moments when I've
• 48:23
  traveled internationally where I'm taking a photo of some very
• 48:28
  esoteric piece of Zen Buddhist artwork.
• 48:32
  And for sure the majority of the content about that piece, like
• 48:37
  90% is in some language I don't speak, but I can communicate and
• 48:42
  get the full distillation of that piece.
• 48:45
  You know, and some people say that that's going to make us
• 48:49
  kind of Dumber. But my counter to that is in the
• 48:55
  past it would have been passing curiosity.
• 48:57
  I would be like, huh, I wonder about that piece and would I
• 49:00
  actually have made a note to go back to do the research on it
• 49:04
  like pre AII? Don't think so.
• 49:07
  If I'm being really honest with myself, you know, maybe if it
• 49:09
  was like I was really struck by the piece.
• 49:12
  So it just, you know, as a, as a, as a machine for people that
• 49:17
  are incredibly curious, it's there's no better time to be
• 49:21
  alive. I mean, you can learn about
• 49:22
  anything. The other I think really
• 49:25
  impactful way that I've been using AI personally, that if
• 49:28
  people haven't tried, I totally wouldn't, is using it for any
• 49:33
  sort of like goal or mindset that you're trying to achieve
• 49:37
  and having it be your thought partner and how to get there.
• 49:39
  Also, your gut check, you know, I have one that I have outlined
• 49:45
  like fitness goals and nutrition goals, even topics around health
• 49:50
  that I want to learn more about. And I'm constantly talking to
• 49:55
  it. And, you know, even just like
• 49:57
  it's raining today, I don't really feel like going for a
• 49:59
  run. Should I not go for a run?
• 50:01
  And it's like, well, two of your goals seem to be in conflict
• 50:06
  here. 1 is that you want to be really in tune with yourself,
• 50:08
  which you're really doing right now.
• 50:09
  The second one is that you are, you know, training to do another
• 50:13
  half marathon. Alright.
• 50:15
  But if I'm being honest, it really sounds like you want to
• 50:18
  go for the run and you're just trying to like make an excuse.
• 50:21
  If tomorrow you were to reflect back on this, do you feel like
• 50:24
  you're not going for the run? Was you listening to yourself or
• 50:26
  you having an excuse? Right.
• 50:28
  You're like, whoops. Nailed me.
• 50:30
  Great. Go for the run, right?
• 50:31
  Exactly. Yeah, and I, I mean, I, I love
• 50:34
  it. You've got Tony.
• 50:35
  Robbins in your pocket, you know.
• 50:37
  Seriously. Yeah.
• 50:38
  And I think it's a really powerful way.
• 50:40
  I mean, you know, to help with like relationship goals if
• 50:44
  you're trying to navigate things, you know, I do that a
• 50:46
  lot as well. How to be a better leader and
• 50:50
  all of those. If you especially if you slow
• 50:53
  down a little bit and think about your opinion of how you
• 50:56
  want your AI to be, then it it will just blow your mind how
• 51:03
  capable these things are. Yeah, and getting more and more
• 51:07
  capable literally every week, like a week of tech progress
• 51:10
  right now feels like a year, 10 years ago, and maybe even more
• 51:13
  than that. Yeah.
• 51:14
  And what's it going to feel like 10 years, you know, be like an
• 51:17
  hour or 2 will feel like a week today.
• 51:21
  I mean, things are things are accelerating so much.
• 51:24
  You know, I'm curious if you when you're out there
• 51:28
  communicating to people about, about what you offer, because
• 51:32
  I've heard this and I've got an opinion on it.
• 51:35
  I'll express my opinion in a moment.
• 51:37
  But where people are like, but Rachel, they hallucinate.
• 51:41
  Like do you get, do you get a lot of that?
• 51:44
  And then, and then how do you, how do you answer?
• 51:45
  Because it, it, it seems like people are throwing up this kind
• 51:49
  of, in my opinion, sorry to bias this, but this, this kind of
• 51:55
  false flag, you know, to be like, well, that's why we can't
• 52:00
  use it, right? It's like, because it
• 52:01
  hallucinates a lot. And I heard this in the Core
• 52:05
  Metrics days where people are like, well, it's not 100%
• 52:10
  accurate because people can delete their cookies and stuff
• 52:14
  like this. And, you know, Core Metrics is
• 52:15
  one of the original web analytics companies and it
• 52:18
  depended on the cookie as a unique identifier for who the
• 52:22
  person was coming to site. And so, yeah, if they change web
• 52:24
  browsers, etcetera. And you know, my response to
• 52:28
  that would be like, OK, here's actual data on how often that
• 52:31
  happens. And if, if you're, if you have a
• 52:35
  marketing system that is providing you insight that you
• 52:38
  can't get any other way and it's 90% accurate, is that good
• 52:41
  enough? You know, are you going to use
• 52:44
  core metrics to run your accounting system?
• 52:47
  No, but that's not why you're buying it.
• 52:48
  You're buying it for marketing, you're buying it for
• 52:50
  merchandising, etcetera. So it seems like we're kind of
• 52:54
  Blake I'm, it's like Groundhog Day for me where we're back to
• 52:57
  that again. Yeah.
• 53:00
  I mean, there's a lot of, there's a whole spectrum of ways
• 53:05
  that I think, yeah, people are throwing up a flag that's not a
• 53:08
  legitimate flag in this like some are.
• 53:11
  Well, if you use it differently and you use it with some better
• 53:14
  techniques that actually doesn't hallucinate, right?
• 53:17
  Or doesn't in a noticeable way that that would impact you.
• 53:21
  Like at my company with my playbooks that I write and our
• 53:24
  team writes, we don't have hallucination issues.
• 53:28
  So maybe, you know, if you if that's really important to you,
• 53:32
  then there's a huge opportunity for you to go learn how to do
• 53:34
  that for yourself as well. The other side of it is thinking
• 53:39
  about AI as a way to scale yourself.
• 53:43
  Other options of how to scale yourself are to have other
• 53:47
  people do things for you and other people have a lot of
• 53:51
  variance and hallucinations. You know whether you want to
• 53:54
  call it that. Sometimes it is listening.
• 53:55
  Or I mean, I wish as a human being I was 100% accurate all
• 53:58
  the time, but it that's not possible.
• 53:59
  Yeah. So I think, I think it depends
• 54:02
  what your goals are and if you're honest with yourself.
• 54:06
  The The thing is, there's definitely a way to get it to
• 54:08
  not hallucinate right. And that's.
• 54:12
  The rag applications and things like that or what?
• 54:14
  What's the? It actually varies based on what
• 54:16
  you're trying to do. So for some things, yeah, having
• 54:22
  RAG where it's like the AI is going and looking up reference
• 54:25
  material and then even having it simple things like having it put
• 54:29
  it's site, it's source. So having it put the link and
• 54:33
  then telling it if you can't find this, say I can't find
• 54:36
  this, instead of making it up. So you're giving it permission
• 54:38
  to, not. Putting it in the prompt, yeah.
• 54:40
  Instead of it always trying to do everything, yeah.
• 54:43
  And then having, you know, for things that are really
• 54:45
  important, having verifiers and having checkers, right?
• 54:47
  So another prompt after that that says, OK, can you go back
• 54:50
  again and find that and just double check?
• 54:53
  There's actually a whole a whole set of these different
• 54:56
  techniques that depends on what you're trying to do, but know
• 54:59
  that it's definitely impossible to get it to not hosting right?
• 55:02
  Yeah, such an Adela just wrote on LinkedIn just I think 2 days
• 55:06
  ago on the most recent release they have where it goes across
• 55:10
  and checks across multiple models for a single prompt,
• 55:14
  right. That's another other technique
• 55:16
  is you're kind of cross referencing and that used to be
• 55:18
  a very manual process for me and.
• 55:20
  Totally. Yeah, like the mixture of
• 55:22
  experts, right? Of like, if you were to ask 5
• 55:25
  friends you know for an answer, then you're more likely to get
• 55:30
  the right answer if you average it out.
• 55:32
  So I'm curious how you see this moment for humanity.
• 55:37
  I mean, it is to to me, this is such a fateful time for us all.
• 55:45
  And, and like I, I love geeking out with you on AI operations
• 55:49
  because I, you know, I was, I was, I was in perhaps in the
• 55:53
  minority, maybe I wasn't, but it felt like it.
• 55:56
  But when the moratorium call happened four months after the
• 56:01
  launch of ChatGPT, you know, ChatGPT came out on November
• 56:05
  30th of 2022. And then it was March, I think
• 56:09
  21st or so, maybe it's 23rd where there was the letter that
• 56:14
  said Paul's all AI development for at least six months until we
• 56:18
  figure out what the heck's going on.
• 56:21
  And Elon Musk and over 37,000 people signed that letter, like
• 56:26
  a lot of them very famous, you know, AI researchers.
• 56:30
  And I just thought it was so ridiculous that I went on the
• 56:36
  Austin Next podcast with Worley, who's been on this podcast.
• 56:40
  He was, he was great on on it. He's a real quantum computing
• 56:43
  expert. And it was funny because we
• 56:46
  didn't know what each other's opinion was going to be.
• 56:48
  I thought, oh, no, I wonder if he's like, total, total doomer
• 56:51
  on this or not. And we actually ended up
• 56:55
  agreeing with each other a lot on that podcast that we see a
• 56:58
  future of billions of, you know, personalized products and
• 57:02
  services we can't even imagine. And so many new entrepreneurs,
• 57:06
  you know, with the barrier to creativity being shattered and
• 57:09
  this being too good to not have it be like, you know, you back
• 57:15
  in the early days of tribes like discovering fire and being like,
• 57:19
  sorry, Brett, your tribe can't have it.
• 57:20
  It's like, no, you know, that we, we, we need this like to
• 57:24
  survive, like and thrive. And, and so I'm just curious
• 57:29
  like how you see this, this AI moment, because there's so much,
• 57:33
  there is so much dystopian fear out there, but then there's also
• 57:39
  so many utopian narratives. I'm I'm curious how you see it
• 57:43
  because you're so close to it. Yeah, I everyday I am working
• 57:47
  with people who are in dramatically different places
• 57:49
  with AI and they're all trying to apply it to what's on their
• 57:54
  To Do List today, right. I think overall, whenever, if I
• 58:01
  think back to like 2023, I was actually really concerned for a
• 58:06
  couple of months on like thinking, Oh my gosh, like AI is
• 58:12
  here and it's gonna change everything way too fast and
• 58:16
  people aren't gonna have the time to realize what's happening
• 58:19
  and what are we gonna do? Like I remember not being very
• 58:24
  fun going out with my friends cuz I'd be like, So what do you
• 58:26
  think about this, right? They're like you're talking
• 58:29
  about this again, you know, right.
• 58:30
  They're. Like please, I just want, I just
• 58:33
  want to have my meal. I just want to hang out and and
• 58:38
  then I will fully own like I really like I was really off on
• 58:45
  the pace of adoption, frankly, over the last couple of years,
• 58:50
  like AI has been adopted so much slower than I could have
• 58:54
  imagined. And I think it's because I got
• 58:57
  first, you know, I definitely was doing what most people do,
• 59:01
  right, which is like, how fast are you using it, your friends
• 59:03
  using it? And you don't think about how
• 59:07
  getting it integrated into an entire organization and like way
• 59:10
  of working. And then all of the just natural
• 59:13
  slowness that comes with like the world and, and humans in a
• 59:18
  good way. And so I think the last couple
• 59:20
  of years has been slower than I expected.
• 59:23
  And then I do think that the last like four months has felt
• 59:28
  like things have materially picked up speed again.
• 59:32
  And so where that leaves me today just quite frankly is is
• 59:35
  puzzled about like how fast this is going to go.
• 59:37
  And I think the speed of how fast it goes really impacts what
• 59:42
  the experience is going to be like.
• 59:44
  Well, let's unpack that because I mean, it's even what you're
• 59:47
  saying is contrarian to the media narrative because you
• 59:54
  know, let's let's just kind of mark this, this moment in time.
• 59:58
  You know, this year Gartner is projecting that $2.4 trillion is
• 1:00:04
  going to be spent on AI in the United States.
• 1:00:07
  And you know, I've outlined this on the podcast before, so
• 1:00:12
  apologies to people have already heard this.
• 1:00:14
  But you know, last year when, when President Trump announced
• 1:00:17
  Project Stargate, 500 billion of funding, that was January 21st
• 1:00:23
  of last year. And he announced that alongside
• 1:00:26
  Mayo, Susan, Sam Altman and Larry Ellison.
• 1:00:30
  And that was already more inflation adjusted than we spent
• 1:00:35
  on the space race versus the Russians and the Manhattan
• 1:00:39
  Project versus the Nazis and and the Japanese at that time.
• 1:00:45
  And since that moment, there's been around $7 trillion of
• 1:00:50
  announcements worldwide towards prioritizing AGI.
• 1:00:55
  And I think that that's happening for hopeful reasons,
• 1:01:00
  like let's manifest a world of the end of disease.
• 1:01:03
  Let's manifest a world of unlimited energy.
• 1:01:06
  I also think it's happening for fearful reasons where it's like
• 1:01:08
  if the Chinese get AGI before us, you know, and if we get it
• 1:01:13
  before them, you know, it's this, it's the next kind of
• 1:01:15
  space race in in that way. But the way I see it is that
• 1:01:19
  this is this is the path for humanity to actually manifest
• 1:01:24
  abundance, like to, you know, if we're going to clean up the
• 1:01:29
  Earth and all the garbage we put in it and, you know, the ozone
• 1:01:35
  layer depleting and everything else, like we have to have
• 1:01:40
  massive breakthroughs. You know, we can't, we can't
• 1:01:44
  pretend like that the way things have been going, if we could
• 1:01:48
  just kind of lock it in time and have a moratorium and just say
• 1:01:52
  let's never develop AI beyond what we've developed.
• 1:01:56
  Absolutely not. Yeah, I mean, but there's,
• 1:01:59
  there's a lot of people, I mean, you know, like Lizard Kowski,
• 1:02:02
  you know, he came out with that book.
• 1:02:03
  If we build it, we're all going to die.
• 1:02:05
  And I remember seeing him at Ted giving that talk and I was like,
• 1:02:10
  Oh my gosh. But again, I, I, I accept that
• 1:02:13
  you need people that are dystopian to kind of, you know,
• 1:02:18
  you can't just have, you can't just have 100% of people that,
• 1:02:22
  that are wired like me or I think wired like you on this
• 1:02:26
  front. You have to have some kind of
• 1:02:28
  responsibility and that and and that's, that's a good thing, you
• 1:02:32
  know, to have that. I agree.
• 1:02:34
  I think I am still. So I'm like, I consider myself a
• 1:02:38
  data collector in a lot of ways, right around things where it's
• 1:02:41
  like, you know, just acknowledging that I still don't
• 1:02:45
  feel like I understand enough about the forces at play.
• 1:02:50
  And I, I really feel that way about the connection between
• 1:02:53
  what the technology can do and how it's actually used and
• 1:02:59
  deployed into the world. All right, right, Because the
• 1:03:03
  technology, like we could have AGI in whatever definition you
• 1:03:06
  want, right? But we could get there and there
• 1:03:10
  could only be the current like early adopters top 1%, maybe
• 1:03:16
  it's even smaller .5 point. 1% of people are like really fully
• 1:03:21
  using today's technology and I still don't even think they're
• 1:03:24
  fully using what it's capable of.
• 1:03:26
  Like I don't think I'm fully using what AI is capable of.
• 1:03:28
  I'm trying my actually. The people that are inventing
• 1:03:31
  it, they don't even know fully what it's capable of because a
• 1:03:34
  lot of them are figuring out like how to even prompted.
• 1:03:36
  I mean Claude Duke, Claude Co work out of Claude code.
• 1:03:40
  Yeah. And so, you know, if if the
• 1:03:44
  technology gets there, but then only a small portion of people
• 1:03:49
  can actually help deploy it out into the world on these
• 1:03:52
  problems. And that happens really fast.
• 1:03:55
  I think that's a different scenario than even the pace of
• 1:04:01
  like the whole world getting good at things like Claude Co
• 1:04:05
  work that's starting to happen right now.
• 1:04:08
  Give it another 12 months more of the world will be more
• 1:04:11
  comfortable in this way. And that just means the circle
• 1:04:14
  of people that can use the technology as close to its
• 1:04:18
  fullest potential. That's getting bigger, right?
• 1:04:22
  And I, I think that the, the speed of how all that happens
• 1:04:25
  and how fast adoption can realistically happen, it matters
• 1:04:29
  a lot when we try to think about like, what's going to, what does
• 1:04:32
  this moment like mean? Does that make sense?
• 1:04:34
  Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a,
• 1:04:37
  it's a, you know, the, the thought that it triggers for me
• 1:04:41
  is that the technology is moving at an exponential pace, but
• 1:04:47
  humanity's adoption of the technology is moving at a very
• 1:04:51
  slow pace relative to the technology.
• 1:04:55
  And and you know, as a result, there's like a natural, natural
• 1:05:00
  inertia towards actually using the technology to manifest
• 1:05:05
  abundance. Yeah, because back to me, just
• 1:05:08
  acknowledging that I felt like the last couple years would go a
• 1:05:11
  lot faster. That's not from the technology
• 1:05:13
  side. Like I think the technology has
• 1:05:16
  been going very fast. It's very capable.
• 1:05:18
  It's amazing what you can do in cloud code right now.
• 1:05:22
  I mean, it's just like that has exceeded my expectations of how
• 1:05:25
  fast that has gone. But the adoption and integration
• 1:05:28
  of it into society and what people are actually using it for
• 1:05:31
  has gone so much slower. And that gap, you know, I, I
• 1:05:34
  don't know how that gap gets solved unless we just really
• 1:05:40
  don't need people to know how to use this stuff.
• 1:05:44
  But yeah, then that opens up a whole other kind of worms of
• 1:05:48
  that. Yeah.
• 1:05:48
  But I don't, I don't think that's the way it plays out
• 1:05:50
  because you need people to have a market, you know, like, like
• 1:05:55
  there is this dystopian narrative of like, what are we
• 1:05:59
  going to have a world of like 10 or 15 or whatever the small
• 1:06:03
  number is multi trillionaires and everybody else is going to
• 1:06:05
  live in squalor. I'm like, there is no world that
• 1:06:10
  that will support that because there's no market in that world.
• 1:06:14
  You know, there's, I mean that that I just do not see that that
• 1:06:18
  is even feasible on the way it plays out.
• 1:06:21
  There's also a limited capacity that one individual human has to
• 1:06:28
  problem solve or have enough context in their brain to even
• 1:06:34
  direct these things right. And so even just on this really
• 1:06:37
  small scale. So after doing my today and in
• 1:06:39
  the morning, the next thing I do is I have usually an average of
• 1:06:43
  six or seven different tabs open of clawed code that I'm just
• 1:06:48
  rotating through all of them as they're doing different projects
• 1:06:52
  for me, right? And I'm reviewing, reviewing,
• 1:06:53
  reviewing. I've had to intentionally
• 1:06:56
  practice and be mindful and I now journal in different ways in
• 1:07:00
  these different things to try to increase my own personal
• 1:07:03
  capacity to manage the speed at which these agents can go and do
• 1:07:08
  things for me. And then when they are like
• 1:07:11
  already finished that OK, now next, like I sometimes don't
• 1:07:14
  have the what's next, I have to pre plan it.
• 1:07:16
  OK, well then they finish the whole project before I pre plan
• 1:07:18
  the next one. And so I think there's a natural
• 1:07:20
  like human capacity to even managing these things as well,
• 1:07:23
  right? That I think that, yeah, not not
• 1:07:27
  to mention too, people have different experiences, different
• 1:07:29
  ideas, different ways to solve problems back to the small
• 1:07:31
  business, right? So I, I think we need a world
• 1:07:34
  where everybody is able to use, I mean, maybe it's everybody
• 1:07:38
  with an asterisk. So I do think you still need to
• 1:07:39
  like opt into the stuff. It's not just going to like fall
• 1:07:42
  into your lap. You need to put effort into it.
• 1:07:45
  Which has been any technology ever, right?
• 1:07:48
  Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there were the
• 1:07:49
  early adopters for, you know, farming technology, etcetera,
• 1:07:53
  that that ended up being The Pioneers of the new method of
• 1:07:58
  doing things and making it far more efficient.
• 1:08:00
  And then realizing that the capability they got that way
• 1:08:05
  allowed them to do crops that they wanted to do but didn't
• 1:08:09
  have the capacity to do. And on and on and on.
• 1:08:12
  Yeah. And then I think it's really
• 1:08:14
  important that it's not just the .5%, the 1% that knows how to
• 1:08:20
  use the technology to its fullest.
• 1:08:22
  Yeah, very important. I completely agree and that's
• 1:08:26
  why I call it the age of abundance for all.
• 1:08:29
  And that's why I personalize it with, you know, countries like
• 1:08:32
  Chad which have a $660 per person GDP.
• 1:08:36
  There are 86,000. We, we have, you know, we, we
• 1:08:43
  have amazing abundance in America and it does not mean
• 1:08:47
  that every place in America has abundance.
• 1:08:49
  Like I had, you know, Brian Hubbard on this podcast for
• 1:08:53
  episode 53, and that was such a moving episode because he really
• 1:08:56
  breaks down how bad that opioid crisis is in, you know, a lot of
• 1:09:02
  poor communities around America. I mean, it's really infuriating.
• 1:09:05
  And there's been lots of documentaries made about that,
• 1:09:07
  etcetera. So there are places that in
• 1:09:12
  America that have very little abundance, but compared to Chad,
• 1:09:17
  like we have electricity, we have, you know, largely clean
• 1:09:21
  water. You know, we have, we have, you
• 1:09:25
  know, all types of grocery stores and everything else that
• 1:09:29
  that are not even imaginable in those places today.
• 1:09:33
  You know, we have healthcare, so you know, we the only way I
• 1:09:38
  think we get to abundance in a place like Chad, which we create
• 1:09:43
  abundance in a place like Chad that will literally feel like
• 1:09:45
  heaven on earth is through AI and this acceleration.
• 1:09:50
  I agree. And I think that like what an
• 1:09:53
  amazing time to be alive, that the cost of solving these
• 1:09:57
  problems is just only gone down and going to keep going down
• 1:10:01
  because we have now this resource that can, if you can
• 1:10:04
  define what you wanted to do, it can go and do that, right?
• 1:10:08
  So how do you, how do you look at this moment from a spiritual
• 1:10:13
  perspective like you? And I've really never discussed
• 1:10:16
  spirituality, but I'm deeply rooted spiritually.
• 1:10:19
  And, and I actually, I actually see this moment as the divine is
• 1:10:24
  working through us and that we're the hands and that we're
• 1:10:29
  in this process where to manifest this future of
• 1:10:33
  abundance for everyone. You know, realizing that we're
• 1:10:36
  99.9% genetically identical across this planet.
• 1:10:40
  And a lot of the constructs that we've invented to create
• 1:10:44
  separation where it's either my religion versus your religion
• 1:10:48
  or, you know, my race versus your race or my country versus
• 1:10:51
  your country, that we have to allow love to conquer fear,
• 1:10:57
  which is in all the spiritual text.
• 1:10:59
  All of them synchronize at that root, whether it's the Dauda
• 1:11:02
  chain, whether it's a Quran, whether it's a Torah, whether
• 1:11:05
  it's the Bible, and on and on, on the Bhagavad Gita.
• 1:11:09
  So they all sink at that, at that common root.
• 1:11:12
  And I think this is the forcing function moment for us to make
• 1:11:17
  the fateful choice. Are we going to create abundance
• 1:11:20
  for everyone, or are we going to use the most powerful technology
• 1:11:25
  that humanity has ever manifested to play the 0 sum
• 1:11:30
  game? You know I win, you lose.
• 1:11:32
  So first of all, I agree with everything you're saying.
• 1:11:34
  And what really stands out to me is how my experience, my team's
• 1:11:40
  experience that I know really intimately and the people that
• 1:11:43
  we work with, this is also felt really deeply, like personally,
• 1:11:47
  spiritual and reflective, right? I think there's both.
• 1:11:52
  And I don't know if you consider like spiritually having like
• 1:11:55
  both sides of like the outer and the the inner, but like there's
• 1:11:58
  so much inner work that I think also people are going to be
• 1:12:01
  confronted with through all of this that I think.
• 1:12:04
  Chapter 13 of my book coming out is on the inner journey.
• 1:12:09
  I mean, the spiritual path is very much an inner path.
• 1:12:13
  Yeah, it is. It is deprogramming with what
• 1:12:17
  doesn't serve you, realizing that you even have that
• 1:12:19
  programming in the first place, and then reprogramming with what
• 1:12:23
  does. And even right now, I think a
• 1:12:26
  lot of questions come up for people around like, how do I
• 1:12:32
  know my worth? How am I valued, especially if
• 1:12:36
  my value was tied to, you know, a job that now looks completely
• 1:12:40
  different or is going to look completely different, right?
• 1:12:43
  Or, you know, now I actually do have an abundance of time.
• 1:12:46
  How am I spending that? I think there's just a lot that
• 1:12:51
  people go through in different ways that I've seen, you know,
• 1:12:57
  personally and very individually.
• 1:13:00
  The other funny thing that comes up to me is I I was in Hawaii
• 1:13:06
  last summer and I and this is just a personal anecdote, but I
• 1:13:10
  was I ended up like meeting this woman who ran a Co working space
• 1:13:15
  and she was awesome. I just felt called to like stay
• 1:13:18
  there longer and like hang out with her and her friends.
• 1:13:21
  So I actually like extended my trip lived with her.
• 1:13:24
  Shout out to Vicki. Vicki or sees it.
• 1:13:26
  She's an incredible woman and I met one of her really good
• 1:13:29
  friends, Aloha. Yeah, that's the flew to come to
• 1:13:32
  Hawaii soon. I love.
• 1:13:34
  I love Hawaii. And I met one of her friends who
• 1:13:38
  is really like tapped into spiritual world and even just
• 1:13:42
  like, you know, we had conversations about how she
• 1:13:45
  viewed ChatGPT as an extension of, you know, of whatever is out
• 1:13:52
  there and driving, driving humanity, driving a human
• 1:13:55
  experience. And I think that there's just
• 1:13:59
  not enough that that I feel like we understand how these things
• 1:14:06
  are connected, but in different ways that that experience has
• 1:14:11
  come up for me. And the last even was like, you
• 1:14:13
  know, six months since that of again, connecting back to like
• 1:14:18
  as one person and oneself and how you're making decisions with
• 1:14:22
  this technology. How are you guiding the impact,
• 1:14:26
  you know, in one way or another and just being intentional about
• 1:14:30
  that? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:31
  Like, how are you thinking about your own responsibility and your
• 1:14:35
  own, you know, I'll use the word soul, but you're your own, you
• 1:14:40
  know, kind of being in this moment.
• 1:14:42
  And trying to put potentially like ego aside, right?
• 1:14:48
  I think it's really hard, but mission critical.
• 1:14:51
  When you think about like humanity making it to this age
• 1:14:57
  of abundance for all, do you really see that as being
• 1:15:02
  possible? I do, yeah.
• 1:15:04
  I think, I think we need a lot more like paths, guidance,
• 1:15:18
  sharing. Like I'm a huge proponent of
• 1:15:22
  open source and I think that more things beyond just code
• 1:15:25
  should be open source. Yeah, with our work, like we're
• 1:15:29
  publishing the protocols, like we're publishing them to try to
• 1:15:32
  make them as like open to people as possible.
• 1:15:37
  I think that there's. That's cool you're doing that so
• 1:15:39
  people can get that pretty easily.
• 1:15:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:15:42
  Where do they get that? If you go to run on amp.com at
• 1:15:47
  amp and I give you the OK cool. So, yeah, because our company,
• 1:15:53
  we actually end up changing the name of the company to AI
• 1:15:54
  Momentum Protocols because of the foundation.
• 1:16:00
  The the foundation that's needed is like, how are we even
• 1:16:02
  approaching this? What are the best practices?
• 1:16:04
  Like how do we even think about this?
• 1:16:06
  And that, you know, we publish ours as these like protocols,
• 1:16:08
  kind of similar to like Huberman makes protocols about how to,
• 1:16:12
  you know, live your life better in different ways trying to make
• 1:16:14
  it accessible. But I just think everybody needs
• 1:16:17
  to be doing that a lot more of like sharing these like paths
• 1:16:21
  and getting the feedback. And yeah, again, just making
• 1:16:27
  sure everybody has like access to the same stuff.
• 1:16:31
  If they're opting in to learning about this and they're trying,
• 1:16:34
  they should be able to be successful.
• 1:16:36
  And I think that that that to me is very important for us to be
• 1:16:39
  able to actually reach like a a good balanced age of abundance.
• 1:16:44
  Yeah, have. Have you ever read Max Tegmark's
• 1:16:48
  book I? Don't think so.
• 1:16:49
  Back in the past, it's called Life 3.0.
• 1:16:52
  Actually, the first time I heard about it was Brian Jacob.
• 1:16:54
  Really. My Co founder and CTO.
• 1:16:56
  Of I know after this I have like a whole list of books I've got
• 1:16:58
  to put on my list, so yeah. Well, one of the things that he,
• 1:17:03
  it's a very, it's a very, it's amazing book for forecasting,
• 1:17:09
  but it's, it, it really goes through the range of scenarios
• 1:17:13
  of how this moment could play out, even though it's written in
• 1:17:16
  2017. But it starts out with a short
• 1:17:19
  story of the Megas who invent AGI and they're like way ahead
• 1:17:24
  of everybody else. And they essentially become the
• 1:17:28
  senators of the world to try to get the world to move forward
• 1:17:35
  because they take over industry after industry through AGI.
• 1:17:38
  And I, I think, I think it's a complete fantasy because I'm
• 1:17:42
  just curious what you think about this.
• 1:17:44
  And it ties in with open source because this, this is a moment
• 1:17:49
  where these engineers are moving around between these companies
• 1:17:55
  like, and they're getting paid a lot of money to move around.
• 1:17:58
  So I think the moment that one of them invents AGI, a week
• 1:18:04
  later, another one's going to invent AGI.
• 1:18:06
  And then at some point in time, it's just going to be open
• 1:18:10
  source. And, and you know that that that
• 1:18:12
  moment when, when Trump announced Stargate, it was the
• 1:18:15
  day before that deep sea came out with our one model.
• 1:18:18
  It was literally a day before. And it took a week for people to
• 1:18:21
  process that and realize how powerful it was.
• 1:18:25
  It's way vastly more powerful than the GPT 4 model that called
• 1:18:29
  for the moratorium call in 2023. You know, the Paul's all AI
• 1:18:33
  development. And so I actually think that
• 1:18:37
  this is going to be through open source, kind of this fundamental
• 1:18:42
  human right that people have access to the most powerful AI
• 1:18:46
  through open source. I, I don't see it.
• 1:18:49
  I mean, I, I think there will be lots of room for the frontier
• 1:18:52
  models, but it's going to be heavily democratized.
• 1:18:56
  I think so, yes. I completely agree on the
• 1:18:59
  companies themselves and the technology behind the AIS.
• 1:19:05
  You know, whether it's they're moving, people are moving jobs
• 1:19:07
  or also, I used to live in San Francisco, you're out at the
• 1:19:10
  bar. And the number of times that,
• 1:19:12
  you know, somebody at a big company was like, you'll never
• 1:19:15
  guess what we just solved, right?
• 1:19:17
  That's right. Tell me more like you know and
• 1:19:23
  like I I knew a ridiculous amount just from being out.
• 1:19:27
  Just just listening. To, yeah.
• 1:19:30
  And so I think from a technology perspective, yes, today is a
• 1:19:35
  really good thing, right, Because then we also have choice
• 1:19:38
  and we can pick the best, you know, infrastructure or
• 1:19:43
  platforms for whatever. Where I think there's not enough
• 1:19:47
  sharing is again, in that adoption side and how do we
• 1:19:50
  actually use this stuff? And I think it's because luckily
• 1:19:54
  we've had open source code and you know, open source models.
• 1:19:58
  All of that has more precedent of like how the world creates
• 1:20:02
  that and shares that and how that takes hold.
• 1:20:05
  And I think that open source thought or approaches, you know,
• 1:20:11
  get published in books, get put online, social media, all that
• 1:20:14
  stuff. Unfortunately, all of that stuff
• 1:20:16
  is now being swarmed with low signal stuff.
• 1:20:21
  And so that's another thing I haven't really solved fully in
• 1:20:26
  my head is like, again, because I see that the adoption and how
• 1:20:33
  quickly we can adopt being a really big piece of how this all
• 1:20:36
  goes. And how are we going to make
• 1:20:38
  sure that that yeah, is accessible and open, right?
• 1:20:44
  So I definitely think it's very possible.
• 1:20:46
  I also think a lot of people who are super smart are concerned
• 1:20:51
  about all of these problems and we're all working on different
• 1:20:54
  pieces. And so I, I'm overall an
• 1:20:59
  optimist that like we're all going to figure it out and
• 1:21:00
  they're still just like big challenges to figure out, you
• 1:21:02
  know? What do you think about like
• 1:21:05
  Dario Modi's piece on the adolescence of technology?
• 1:21:09
  It's interesting follow up from his prior piece which was
• 1:21:12
  incredibly optimistic, although, although there were some
• 1:21:16
  cautions in there too. Yeah.
• 1:21:18
  You know, and I'll just be frank and maybe unpopular is like, I
• 1:21:22
  actually really don't consume a lot of media from the people at
• 1:21:28
  the big labs. And I think they're doing
• 1:21:30
  important work, and I'm glad other people are consuming it.
• 1:21:33
  And then I think I end up just being really, like, heads down
• 1:21:36
  in the weeds with people. So I actually haven't seen that
• 1:21:39
  article. Yeah.
• 1:21:40
  OK, Yeah. It's just there's, there's more
• 1:21:42
  and more of this discussion by some of the big AI leaders in
• 1:21:48
  terms of the responsibility of this moment.
• 1:21:51
  And, and I think, you know, Dimasisibis is really been one
• 1:21:57
  of the great stewards of this moment.
• 1:21:59
  You know, he if, if people haven't seen even, you know, the
• 1:22:02
  60 minutes interview, he did trust him that long ago, just a
• 1:22:05
  few months ago. It's really, really well done.
• 1:22:10
  But I think that's a great thing.
• 1:22:11
  I think, I think it's a great thing that the people of that
• 1:22:14
  type of influence are coming out with pieces like that.
• 1:22:17
  And and I don't, I, I reject that they're coming out with
• 1:22:20
  them for, for a form of control because I don't see it playing
• 1:22:25
  out that way. I think they're I think they're
• 1:22:26
  genuinely like thoughtful as a human being and US wanting to
• 1:22:32
  navigate this moment to this age of von is for all.
• 1:22:36
  One thing I really like is I feel like Anthropic does publish
• 1:22:38
  a lot of kind of their first party research around, yeah,
• 1:22:42
  sharing a lot of these insights like I they did the report of
• 1:22:48
  the impact of AI so far on jobs versus what they expect it will
• 1:22:52
  be. Yeah.
• 1:22:53
  And I think things like that start a lot of really good
• 1:22:55
  discussion. I just think we need so much
• 1:22:59
  more of it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:23:00
  What are you most excited about in this moment?
• 1:23:03
  I think the possibilities of just like what you can go do if
• 1:23:08
  you have the idea and ambition and like drive to go do it.
• 1:23:12
  I think I have a lot of friends right now who are starting side
• 1:23:17
  hustles of businesses around causes and things that they care
• 1:23:21
  about that they just would have never had like the time or feel
• 1:23:26
  capable to go do that before. So I think that's really
• 1:23:29
  inspiring. And then personally, like I'm
• 1:23:33
  play booking everything I possibly can and my job and in
• 1:23:37
  my life and with our business because, you know, I want to
• 1:23:40
  start a family in the next handful of years.
• 1:23:44
  And I can't, I like can't believe in a way that I live in
• 1:23:48
  an era where I can like have my cake and eat it too, of having
• 1:23:51
  really high ambitions for the impact I can have in the world.
• 1:23:54
  And also still, you know, be confident that I can spend a
• 1:23:58
  bunch of time while my AIS are going and doing stuff, you know,
• 1:24:02
  raising a family. So, you know, I have AI have a
• 1:24:04
  very contrarian view on this front.
• 1:24:08
  I'm glad, I'm glad you brought it up because my, so one of the
• 1:24:12
  pushbacks I get on this cold path to abundance is people tell
• 1:24:17
  me, well, what do you think? We're all just going to be like
• 1:24:19
  the Bhutanese and we're going to meditate all day.
• 1:24:23
  And it's, it's like, you know, first of all, Bhutan is a very
• 1:24:28
  happy country. And they're one of the case
• 1:24:30
  studies and in, in my book, one of the new models for humanity.
• 1:24:36
  And, you know, we went there last year and it's amazing.
• 1:24:39
  And you can feel how happy the people are there.
• 1:24:43
  But yet the GDP of Bhutan is 3 weeks of coffee in the US, the
• 1:24:50
  entire GDP of the country. And you know, people will also
• 1:24:54
  say, well, Brad, it's great to walk this spiritual path or
• 1:24:57
  whatever. Like, you know, I don't have
• 1:24:59
  time to walk that path. And I always remind them I'm
• 1:25:02
  like what some of the poorest countries I've been to actually
• 1:25:07
  are the most spiritually rooted, like with people truly, like
• 1:25:10
  deeply happy. You know, in America, we are
• 1:25:14
  constantly pushing this, this construct, it's programming of
• 1:25:18
  like making us crave this or that material item or this food
• 1:25:23
  or whatever. And the only path to happiness
• 1:25:29
  that's lasting is found with the inner journey.
• 1:25:32
  It's, I mean that that's in every spiritual tax there is and
• 1:25:37
  that's a non spiritual tax too. If, if you, if you view Stoicism
• 1:25:42
  as a non spiritual text, although I think you can, it's
• 1:25:44
  two sides of the same coin. I think you can view it that way
• 1:25:47
  as well. And so there is going to be part
• 1:25:50
  of society that in an age of abundance that decides to really
• 1:25:55
  get back to more communal living.
• 1:25:57
  I think that would be great. And then there's going to be
• 1:25:59
  people that are hyper ambitious in that age.
• 1:26:02
  Let's go figure out how to push the frontiers of quantum
• 1:26:06
  physics. We don't really understand, you
• 1:26:08
  know, what even 96% of the universe is made of?
• 1:26:11
  We call it dark energy and dark matter.
• 1:26:12
  Let's go figure it out. Can we, can we conquer the
• 1:26:15
  faster and lightspeed travel and all these things that I, I
• 1:26:18
  tackled in, in the science fiction book, I gave you my
• 1:26:22
  novella called the lattice. You know, it's an unprecedented
• 1:26:25
  take off like once we once we unify.
• 1:26:29
  But I think that part of the challenge in America and other
• 1:26:34
  very developed countries in terms of why birth rates aren't
• 1:26:39
  great is because people are on that rat race.
• 1:26:43
  You know, they're waiting till longer to have kids and there is
• 1:26:47
  a biological clock to actually have kids.
• 1:26:50
  And I actually think that once we hit abundance, there could
• 1:26:56
  actually be a population explosion, people having a lot
• 1:27:00
  more kids because now there is more time to even contemplate
• 1:27:05
  having a family and less scarcity.
• 1:27:08
  Like, I think scarcity breeds like, and, and the, the in, in,
• 1:27:13
  in some cases, the illusion of scarcity too, like in America,
• 1:27:16
  like, well, I've got to wait until I've got that big house or
• 1:27:19
  whatever, you know, to have kids.
• 1:27:21
  And it's like these countries where people are having a lot of
• 1:27:25
  kids and are highly contented. They have a lot of material
• 1:27:29
  items. And you don't need a lot of
• 1:27:30
  material items actually to have kids.
• 1:27:32
  Yeah. And I think it's interesting
• 1:27:34
  too, cuz I agree with that. And I think that I guess for me,
• 1:27:40
  and this is certainly colored by the way that I'm using AI, is
• 1:27:47
  this very operationally oriented way where the bottleneck now
• 1:27:52
  really is my ability to imagine what's next and think of the
• 1:27:57
  system. And this is the thing that, you
• 1:28:00
  know, great thinkers used to go and spend a week out in the
• 1:28:03
  woods just to come back with like the next big idea.
• 1:28:07
  And I think that like, I'm excited about having a lot more
• 1:28:10
  time in my life for those that type of life and that type of
• 1:28:15
  experience while then also being able to execute against those
• 1:28:19
  things. Yeah, to me, that's incredible.
• 1:28:22
  You know, and then to fill that time with the life that brings
• 1:28:26
  you joy and fulfillment, you know, which for me is a lot
• 1:28:30
  about family. So I think it's, I think there's
• 1:28:34
  a lot of interesting things that we'll start to see about as
• 1:28:38
  people's time hopefully does like free up more.
• 1:28:41
  We get into this age of abundance, how different people
• 1:28:43
  choose to reinvest that right? Well, this was a this is amazing
• 1:28:49
  and I really appreciate you and appreciate your heart and all
• 1:28:53
  that you're putting into the world.
• 1:28:55
  It must be so much fun for customers to work with you, You
• 1:28:59
  know, as someone that's been on the front lines of this and it's
• 1:29:02
  so funny to say, like it's only been a bit over three years, you
• 1:29:06
  know, since the launch of of Chachi PT, but you know, three
• 1:29:11
  years really focused on it and focused on it before it even
• 1:29:15
  launched. Like really makes you one of the
• 1:29:18
  world experts in this. And, and so it's, it's I'm sure
• 1:29:23
  you're just having a blast and you're building something great.
• 1:29:26
  And it's, it's so cool for me to see you, you know, go from
• 1:29:31
  working at dated out world to doing this.
• 1:29:33
  I just, I just want you to know that fills me with so much, so
• 1:29:36
  much love and, and, and gratitude.
• 1:29:39
  You know, I when, when after Bizarre Voice went public, there
• 1:29:43
  were over 70 startups that, that started from former Bizarre
• 1:29:47
  Voice people. And the number one thing that I
• 1:29:50
  always love about starting a company is seeing how well
• 1:29:53
  people do as a result. Well, the feeling is absolutely
• 1:29:56
  mutual. And yeah, I mean, even just
• 1:29:59
  reflecting on the way here, I really think that even just
• 1:30:03
  being at Data World and being around like the amazing team
• 1:30:05
  that you built there, like those were those were the those were
• 1:30:10
  the things that got me on this path.
• 1:30:12
  And I have so many amazing mentors and including you that
• 1:30:15
  come out of it. And this has been really fun.
• 1:30:18
  I really love this conversation. Yeah, this has been awesome.
• 1:30:20
  Well, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you.
• 1:30:22
  Thanks again, everybody for tuning in to Love Conquers Fear.
• 1:30:26
  I love that episode with Rachel. It's so much fun.
• 1:30:29
  And definitely TuneIn to her work and all of the amazing
• 1:30:35
  content that she's putting out there, including open sourcing
• 1:30:39
  so much of it for your benefit. Thanks again for all the love
• 1:30:42
  you're giving. I just had a beautiful,
• 1:30:45
  beautiful conversation this morning with someone who heart
• 1:30:50
  has really been moved by. Love conquers fear.
• 1:30:52
  And I just can't thank you enough for sending all that love
• 1:30:55
  my way. If you're enjoying this, share
• 1:30:59
  it with a friend. Let's move a lot of hearts and
• 1:31:02
  minds and let's manifest that age of abundance for all.
• 1:31:06
  It's team humanity all the way. Thank you.