Latest / Heavyweight / 2025 Update: Leif + A Conversation with Anna Konkle

Transcript

2025 Update: Leif + A Conversation with Anna Konkle · Heavyweight

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hello, Hello, it seems like the Spider has become
0:26
Speaker 1: this thing that catches the fly. You're welcoming me into
0:30
Speaker 1: the studio.
0:31
Speaker 2: Am I the fly? No, I guess you're the fly.
0:33
Speaker 2: I'm the spider. Feels pretty good. So so what Yeah,
0:39
Speaker 2: As hopefully our listeners know by now, if they're paying attention.
0:43
Speaker 1: Well, whoa, whoa. I was sensing a little attitude.
0:46
Speaker 2: Don't antagonize the listeners.
0:48
Speaker 1: That's rule number one in broadcasting.
0:51
Speaker 2: As our dear audience should know, we have been encoring
0:57
Speaker 2: some episodes this summer, and usually at the end we'll
1:01
Speaker 2: have a little update with the guests about what's happened. Since, yes,
1:05
Speaker 2: this is going to be a little bit different, I
1:08
Speaker 2: got to interview someone I was really really excited to
1:11
Speaker 2: talk to. She makes one of my favorite shows. It's
1:17
Speaker 2: called Pen fifteen.
1:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talk about it.
1:19
Speaker 2: We talk about it like, yeah frequently we do.
1:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:22
Speaker 1: When it was running, we really we talked about it
1:24
Speaker 1: a lot. I have to say. It's probably one of
1:26
Speaker 1: my favorite shows too.
1:27
Speaker 2: For those who don't know the show, it is made
1:30
Speaker 2: by Anakonkole and Maya Erskin, who are two real life
1:34
Speaker 2: best friends and they play versions of themselves at thirteen,
1:40
Speaker 2: so it's about their middle school experience. They are playing
1:42
Speaker 2: themselves as adults, and then they are surrounded by literal children,
1:47
Speaker 2: people who are actually thirteen playing their classmates.
1:50
Speaker 1: For the first episode, that concept felt like a big
1:53
Speaker 1: hurdle maybe to kind of like get into the story.
1:57
Speaker 1: But I was like over it and into it like
1:59
Speaker 1: five minutes in. Yeah, you stop thinking about the fact
2:02
Speaker 1: they're adults. Yeah, it's like a magic trick that they pull,
2:05
Speaker 1: and it's beautiful and so funny.
2:08
Speaker 2: It's really good. That's right. I really think anyone who
2:10
Speaker 2: hasn't watched it, I would highly highly recommend it. And
2:12
Speaker 2: I was very excited to talk to Anna and Yeah,
2:16
Speaker 2: we thought it could be a cool conversation to put
2:19
Speaker 2: with this episode because both of us are revisiting that
2:22
Speaker 2: same age, in her case very literally recreating scenes from
2:26
Speaker 2: her childhood.
2:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you guys end up talking about the episode
2:31
Speaker 1: and her show.
2:32
Speaker 2: And about just our perspective middle school experiences.
2:37
Speaker 1: So let's get to listening, shall we.
2:38
Speaker 2: Let's get to listening. I'm Khalila Holt and this is
2:49
Speaker 2: Heavyweight Today's episode. Late right after the break, I'm walking
3:09
Speaker 2: to work one morning when I spot Laife heading towards me.
3:13
Speaker 2: From the ages of twelve to fourteen, Life was my crush,
3:17
Speaker 2: the object of my junior high obsession. I still google
3:21
Speaker 2: him occasionally, but he's completely absent from the Internet. I
3:25
Speaker 2: have no idea what became of him. It's like he
3:28
Speaker 2: just disappeared. So when I see him on the street,
3:32
Speaker 2: I feel my heart speed up. I wonder if I
3:34
Speaker 2: should say hi. I wonder if I say hi in
3:38
Speaker 2: what tone I should go Life, Life, oh Liafe. But
3:45
Speaker 2: then as I dropped closer, I realized that the man
3:48
Speaker 2: I thought was life is not life at all, and
3:51
Speaker 2: in fact is not even a man. He's a teenager.
3:55
Speaker 2: This makes sense given that I've not seen life since
3:58
Speaker 2: I was fourteen years old. Still, having your heart speed
4:03
Speaker 2: up at the sight of a teenager is a sure
4:05
Speaker 2: way to feel like a creep. And just like that,
4:13
Speaker 2: to quote Carrie Bradshaw, Liaife is back on my mind
4:19
Speaker 2: all these years later, and I remember the exact type
4:22
Speaker 2: of pen layfro with. I remember his birthday. I remember
4:26
Speaker 2: how he kept his wallet on a long chain, the
4:28
Speaker 2: first time I'd ever seen such a thing done, and
4:31
Speaker 2: wore a quicksilver sweatshirt with holes worn through the sleeves
4:34
Speaker 2: that he'd stick his thumbs through. He was pale, with
4:37
Speaker 2: blue eyes, short and slight.
4:40
Speaker 4: I remember him being kind of like wayfish, almost like
4:44
Speaker 4: kind of almost like a furial.
4:47
Speaker 2: Crushes do not exist in a vacuum. They require gleeful
4:51
Speaker 2: gossip with your friends. And so I call Itchia, who's
4:55
Speaker 2: been my best friend since elementary school, to talk about
4:58
Speaker 2: our old classmate Lafe.
5:00
Speaker 4: He had this like light blonde hair that he died
5:02
Speaker 4: and was not a long like down to here, but
5:04
Speaker 4: hair long like like a bottling.
5:06
Speaker 2: But like shag. And then yeah, there go the man's bob. Once,
5:12
Speaker 2: while away on a school sponsored trip, we phoned Leife
5:15
Speaker 2: from our hotel room, me, Lucia, and our other friend Emily,
5:20
Speaker 2: but three of us huddled together on the scratchy Marriotte comforter,
5:24
Speaker 2: stifling our giddiness as we dialed. I don't remember if
5:28
Speaker 2: we actually talked to the thing I remember is that
5:30
Speaker 2: we called.
5:30
Speaker 5: We talked to his mom.
5:32
Speaker 2: Our friend Emily asked if she could speak with Laife.
5:35
Speaker 2: It's Emily, she said. Emily said, Leife's mom go upstairs
5:40
Speaker 2: and talk to him. Then she hung up on us.
5:43
Speaker 2: Turned out he had a sister named Emily, so weird.
5:48
Speaker 2: Luccia's stepmom was a photographer, and she once mentioned that
5:52
Speaker 2: if Laife and I ever started dating, she wanted to
5:54
Speaker 2: take our portrait. I don't think she knew I had
5:57
Speaker 2: a crush on him. Laife was just so short and
6:00
Speaker 2: I was so tall that I think she found the
6:03
Speaker 2: idea of us as a couple funny. I was already
6:06
Speaker 2: six feet tall by the end of eighth grade. I
6:09
Speaker 2: got pressured into playing basketball, but I was so meek
6:13
Speaker 2: that I usually just stood there while some terrifying girl
6:16
Speaker 2: shoved by me with the ball. I don't like to
6:18
Speaker 2: look at pictures of myself from that time. Standing next
6:22
Speaker 2: to other kids my age, I look like the teacher
6:25
Speaker 2: or like someone's off putting sister home from college. None
6:28
Speaker 2: of my pants fit correctly, and my socks were always
6:31
Speaker 2: pulled up too high. I used to listen to the
6:34
Speaker 2: song eleanor Rigby and panic. In my interpretation, it was
6:39
Speaker 2: a song about how no one wanted to date poor
6:41
Speaker 2: old eleanor Rigby, just like no one wanted to date me.
6:51
Speaker 2: When I was thirteen. One day I was sitting by
6:53
Speaker 2: the gym after school with my friend desiree. When she
6:56
Speaker 2: told me, I picture you getting a boyfriend in college.
7:00
Speaker 2: She laid out this whole hypothetical where me and my
7:03
Speaker 2: future boyfriend reached for the same book at the library.
7:07
Speaker 2: At the time I was offended college, other girls at
7:11
Speaker 2: my school, desire included, already had boyfriends, the middle school
7:16
Speaker 2: version of a boyfriend where you were afraid to touch
7:18
Speaker 2: each other and broke up after a week. But still
7:21
Speaker 2: I had to wait till college. But as it turned out,
7:25
Speaker 2: I did not get a boyfriend before college, nor in college,
7:29
Speaker 2: nor even for several years after college, And so I
7:33
Speaker 2: concluded the problem was not my circumstances. The problem was me.
7:39
Speaker 2: I was not datable. After meeting me for the first time,
7:43
Speaker 2: people might say, oh, she was funny, but they'd never say,
7:47
Speaker 2: is she single. I was simply not a person that
7:50
Speaker 2: anyone could think of romantically. At college parties, boys would
7:55
Speaker 2: grab my friends and start dancing with them, and I
7:58
Speaker 2: would stay for a while, dancing alongside them, like I
8:01
Speaker 2: was part of the good time, but eventually I'd walk away.
8:05
Speaker 2: It was weird for me to keep standing there smiling
8:08
Speaker 2: blankly at the wall while they were making out. By
8:12
Speaker 2: now I'm in my thirties, and I actually do have
8:15
Speaker 2: a boyfriend. Sam and I have been together for four years.
8:19
Speaker 2: We live together, We've taken trips, know each other's moms,
8:23
Speaker 2: list each other on emergency contact forms, and yet still
8:28
Speaker 2: I can't shake this feeling that I'm behind, that there's
8:30
Speaker 2: something wrong with me, that I started too late, and
8:34
Speaker 2: now I can never catch up. Sometimes Sam tells me
8:38
Speaker 2: stories about the girls he used to hook up with,
8:41
Speaker 2: or about his high school girlfriend, or the girlfriend he
8:44
Speaker 2: lived with before he lived with me. I know that
8:47
Speaker 2: he's not trying to get back together with any of
8:49
Speaker 2: these people. I know he does invested in our relationship
8:52
Speaker 2: as I am. Still, when he tells these stories, I
8:56
Speaker 2: feel so inadequate that I want to cry. A couple
9:00
Speaker 2: times I have cried, and he has been confused, and
9:03
Speaker 2: suddenly we're in an argument because I don't know how
9:05
Speaker 2: to explain why I'm crying. I want charming stif stories
9:09
Speaker 2: like that one of rhapsodizes about my past of young
9:12
Speaker 2: love and mutual discovery. Instead, my past is a wall
9:16
Speaker 2: I smiled at, and the only stories I have about
9:19
Speaker 2: people I've hooked up with are vaguely unsettling to repeat.
9:30
Speaker 2: I liked Leife at a time before all that, back
9:33
Speaker 2: when it still felt like romance might happen for me,
9:36
Speaker 2: like any interaction could be the start of a love
9:38
Speaker 2: story for the Ages. One time I brought whole Food
9:42
Speaker 2: sushi for lunch and felt self conscious because I'd seen
9:45
Speaker 2: the Breakfast Club in which Molly Ringwald is mocked for
9:48
Speaker 2: bringing sushi for lunch. But Leif walked by my table
9:52
Speaker 2: and said, is that sushi? And I said yes? And
9:54
Speaker 2: he said I love sushi. And I said would you
9:56
Speaker 2: like a piece? And he said really? And I said yes,
9:58
Speaker 2: And suddenly I was proud to have a lunch of
10:00
Speaker 2: whole food sushi. Laife talked constantly about a band called
10:04
Speaker 2: Billie Talent, a semi yelly alt rock group with lyrics
10:08
Speaker 2: about my I started listening to them because I knew
10:12
Speaker 2: Laife liked them, and from there became an obsessive fan myself.
10:17
Speaker 2: Once I ran into Laife at a Billie Talent concert,
10:20
Speaker 2: I pretended not to see him because I didn't want
10:22
Speaker 2: him to think that I'd followed him there, But he
10:25
Speaker 2: came over and said hi to me. There were little
10:28
Speaker 2: moments where it almost seemed like he could be flirting
10:31
Speaker 2: with me. We followed each other on the blogging site zanga,
10:35
Speaker 2: and for a while there was some sort of glitch
10:37
Speaker 2: where Life was unable to comment on my page. When
10:40
Speaker 2: the glitch was fixed, he was so excited that he
10:43
Speaker 2: left me one hundred comments in a row. Comment forty
10:47
Speaker 2: two said, on the forty second day of Christmas, I
10:50
Speaker 2: gave to Kaylee one hundred comments, lots of typing and
10:54
Speaker 2: a pear tree. I still have a journal from that time.
11:03
Speaker 2: In it, i'd write Laife all these vague letters. It
11:07
Speaker 2: is humiliating to read these letters now, to the point
11:10
Speaker 2: where I refuse to quote them here. Suffice it to
11:13
Speaker 2: say that I constantly referred to him as dearest. Surrounding
11:18
Speaker 2: the letters are my thoughts about myself, mostly how I
11:22
Speaker 2: wished I were a different person entirely, someone charismatic and
11:26
Speaker 2: sought after. Sometimes I'd have this huge swell of self
11:30
Speaker 2: hatred that I didn't know what to do with. Once
11:33
Speaker 2: I tried to caught myself, but the kitchen knife I
11:36
Speaker 2: chose was not very sharp, and so it was harder
11:39
Speaker 2: than I thought it would be, and I gave up.
11:42
Speaker 2: When I find someone who wants to date me, I
11:44
Speaker 2: thought this feeling will go away. I hoped that life
11:48
Speaker 2: might be that someone. I'd talked long fantasies about how
11:52
Speaker 2: we'd get together, and sometimes I'd realize what a good
11:55
Speaker 2: mood I was in, and then I'd realize the good
11:58
Speaker 2: mood was because of something I'd made up, something that
12:00
Speaker 2: hadn't really happened at all. In the winter of eighth grade,
12:11
Speaker 2: I finally decided enough with the secret pining. It was
12:15
Speaker 2: time to let Laife know how I felt. And so
12:19
Speaker 2: I took action. And by took action, I mean that
12:23
Speaker 2: I delegated action to other people. There was a stairway
12:27
Speaker 2: right next to our classroom that was just a single
12:29
Speaker 2: flight and closed by doors on each side. It was
12:33
Speaker 2: in this room of stairs that my friends Lucia and
12:36
Speaker 2: Emily cornered Laife and told him that I liked him
12:39
Speaker 2: while I ran home and hid. Afterwards, I asked them
12:43
Speaker 2: what he said. They told me he said okay. That night,
12:49
Speaker 2: in a fit of panic and despair, I got online.
12:53
Speaker 2: I logged onto Zanga, and I wrote a veiled, angsty
12:56
Speaker 2: post about what a huge mistake I'd made. Laife saw
12:59
Speaker 2: the post as I knew he would, and he I
13:02
Speaker 2: amed my friend Karina about it. And here is where
13:05
Speaker 2: something amazing happened, because, in this conversation with Karina, Laife
13:11
Speaker 2: said he would date me. He said he thought I
13:13
Speaker 2: was cool. He was going to ask me out on
13:17
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day. Seeing couples perform how much they liked each
13:22
Speaker 2: other made me feel inferior. So I hated Valentine's Day
13:26
Speaker 2: with a showy passion. Each February fourteenth, I'd wear all
13:30
Speaker 2: black as a sign of protest. Laife's thought was that
13:33
Speaker 2: this romantic gesture might help me to reclaim the holiday.
13:38
Speaker 2: I know all this because at the time, Karina promptly
13:41
Speaker 2: copy and pasted the ims with Life into an email
13:44
Speaker 2: for me. I couldn't believe what I was reading. I
13:47
Speaker 2: was so happy. Finally, I thought, finally, the thing that
13:52
Speaker 2: only happens to other people, it's now happening to me.
14:01
Speaker 2: On Valentine's Day, I got up and my mom drove
14:04
Speaker 2: me to school. People were giving out candy and paper hearts.
14:09
Speaker 2: I tried to look nonchalant. I went to science class,
14:13
Speaker 2: I went to lunch, to recess, to math, to basketball,
14:19
Speaker 2: and then school was over and I went home. Laife
14:23
Speaker 2: did not say a single word to me all day.
14:27
Speaker 2: I have no idea what happened or why he changed
14:30
Speaker 2: his mind.
14:32
Speaker 4: Huh did you ever talk to him about it?
14:35
Speaker 2: I rehash all this on the phone with Lucia. Never
14:39
Speaker 2: did we speak directly about it, like we spoke through
14:43
Speaker 2: you and Emily, through Karina on im and like through
14:47
Speaker 2: my veiled zanga posts. Interesting and having been my best
14:52
Speaker 2: friend for all these years, Lucia into It's what I'm
14:56
Speaker 2: building up to. So you want to try to find
15:01
Speaker 2: him more? Yeah, but I'm afraid. I tried a drafting
15:04
Speaker 2: a letter, and I was like, do I just sound
15:07
Speaker 2: into safe anyway? So do you think this is completely
15:11
Speaker 2: insane to do?
15:12
Speaker 6: No?
15:13
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure you wrote. You're a very good
15:16
Speaker 4: writer and a thoughtful person, so I'm sure.
15:19
Speaker 2: The way you approached it was good. Since googling Life
15:23
Speaker 2: had always failed me, I turned to a public records
15:26
Speaker 2: database that I get through work. I was hoping to
15:30
Speaker 2: discover a possible mailing address for Life, and I did,
15:34
Speaker 2: looks like maybe he lives in Arizona. And I saw
15:36
Speaker 2: he had like a from twenty twenty court thing from
15:40
Speaker 2: defacing a political sign. Well, I guess you don't know
15:46
Speaker 2: which direction. I know it's a good direction. I want
15:51
Speaker 2: to talk to life directly, the way I never did
15:54
Speaker 2: back then. I want to know what he really thought
15:57
Speaker 2: of me, and why he never asked me out on
16:00
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day. All these years, I've believed this story about
16:05
Speaker 2: how people don't see me romantically. But if I can
16:09
Speaker 2: to the beginning of that story, if I can see
16:11
Speaker 2: myself differently at thirteen, it could reframe everything that came
16:16
Speaker 2: after I name dropped you in the letter name dropped
16:20
Speaker 2: me because I'm so well known well. I was like,
16:23
Speaker 2: we used to live together, but now we both live
16:25
Speaker 2: with our boyfriend, so that he wouldn't think I was
16:28
Speaker 2: like trying to date him now Highlafe, I wrote in
16:32
Speaker 2: my letter, I don't know if you remember me, but
16:34
Speaker 2: we went to Near North together. I had a huge
16:37
Speaker 2: crush on you, and I was hoping you'd be up
16:39
Speaker 2: to talk to me about what you remember from that time.
16:43
Speaker 2: I hang up the phone with Lucia and I walked
16:46
Speaker 2: to the mailbox. I send off my letter. But then
17:07
Speaker 2: several weeks to go by and nothing. Did Laife get
17:11
Speaker 2: the letter and decide to ignore me? Or do I
17:14
Speaker 2: just have the wrong address. Usually when reporting a story,
17:19
Speaker 2: I tried calling at this point, and I did find
17:21
Speaker 2: a phone number for Laife. However, the idea of dialing
17:25
Speaker 2: it makes me want to lie down in the middle
17:28
Speaker 2: of the street and simply pass away. And so, just
17:32
Speaker 2: like I did at thirteen, I recruit someone else as
17:35
Speaker 2: an envoy.
17:36
Speaker 1: And who is it? Someone else? You?
17:39
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's you.
17:40
Speaker 7: Okay, So I'm sort of like that whole quorum of
17:44
Speaker 7: girls all in one adult man.
17:47
Speaker 2: This is a regular host of this program, Jonathan Goldstein.
17:52
Speaker 2: I want him to call Leife on my behalf to
17:54
Speaker 2: see if Laife got the letter. I would be open
17:56
Speaker 2: to speaking with me.
17:58
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, I don't think that'll be awkward at all.
18:00
Speaker 7: Let me get my pattern down here. Hi, there was
18:03
Speaker 7: this girl. Her name was Khaleila hol.
18:05
Speaker 2: You should say Kaylee first. I think you would know
18:07
Speaker 2: me by Kaylee.
18:08
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kaylee Holt's boss.
18:12
Speaker 2: What you say like that? It is really weird.
18:15
Speaker 1: That is weird.
18:16
Speaker 7: No, Hi, you don't know me, but I was enlisted
18:19
Speaker 7: by an old school chum of yours.
18:22
Speaker 2: Oh, don't say school, an.
18:23
Speaker 1: Old flame, a paramore.
18:26
Speaker 2: My confidence is decreasing with every passing second.
18:29
Speaker 7: I won't embarrass you in front of your crush.
18:34
Speaker 1: Are you joking, choking on this bon bun.
18:37
Speaker 2: As my boss asphyxiates on a piece of candy. I
18:40
Speaker 2: weigh the pros and cons of just making the call myself,
18:44
Speaker 2: but in the end I make the same choice I
18:46
Speaker 2: did back then, better to send an incompetent in my
18:49
Speaker 2: stead while I hide at home. I obsess all day Thursday,
19:00
Speaker 2: I obsess all day Friday. Jonathan doesn't offer me a
19:04
Speaker 2: single update. I can't even tell if he's made the
19:07
Speaker 2: call yet. Than the week begins and I still have
19:11
Speaker 2: no idea what he's done. Okay, but whatever you did
19:15
Speaker 2: do it worked because Friday night checked my email and
19:20
Speaker 2: I had an email from Laife saying that he would
19:22
Speaker 2: talk to me.
19:28
Speaker 1: Wow.
19:29
Speaker 7: Okay, well, let me just say I am almost one
19:34
Speaker 7: hundred percent certain that I had nothing to do with that.
19:38
Speaker 2: Well really, because it happens that day.
19:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is suggestive.
19:42
Speaker 2: Jonathan tells me that he had indeed tried calling Leaife's number.
19:46
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the call.
19:48
Speaker 8: You ready?
19:48
Speaker 2: Okay?
19:49
Speaker 9: Yeah?
19:49
Speaker 1: Okay, Hello, is Laife there?
19:57
Speaker 4: Yes?
19:59
Speaker 1: Could I speak to him?
20:01
Speaker 6: Yes?
20:01
Speaker 2: This is her?
20:03
Speaker 1: This is Laife.
20:06
Speaker 6: Yes.
20:10
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I have the right person.
20:12
Speaker 1: What is your middle name.
20:18
Speaker 6: Seek doodles.
20:20
Speaker 1: No, No, that isn't. That isn't the life that I'm
20:24
Speaker 1: looking for.
20:26
Speaker 6: I'm on a toilet rin.
20:28
Speaker 1: Though, Okay, is there anybody else in the house.
20:41
Speaker 2: In his email, Lafe proposed that we talk in nine days,
20:45
Speaker 2: which is kind of a weirdly long time. I can't
20:49
Speaker 2: help but worry that he'll bail last minute, that this
20:52
Speaker 2: will be just like Valentine's Day all over again. So
20:55
Speaker 2: in the meantime, hoping she might remember some clue about
20:59
Speaker 2: what happened back then, I text my old friend Karina,
21:03
Speaker 2: the one who broke her this whole Valentine's plan with
21:05
Speaker 2: life on I AM.
21:07
Speaker 8: When you texted me that it was you, I was like,
21:11
Speaker 8: oh my gosh, Like, did something.
21:13
Speaker 2: Happen she calling me to say that miss Bergen died,
21:17
Speaker 2: Miss Bergen being our longtime principal, which.
21:21
Speaker 8: She did, by the way, he didn't I didn't hear that.
21:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, may she. I felt deranged, texting Karina that I
21:32
Speaker 2: wanted to speak with her about life a random kid
21:35
Speaker 2: from her eighth grade class. But Karina responded, I legitimately
21:39
Speaker 2: thought about you in life last week, So, just like
21:42
Speaker 2: we used to in junior high, the two of us
21:45
Speaker 2: chat on the phone about a boy and then he
21:48
Speaker 2: I am you shut up?
21:50
Speaker 8: Did I send you the conversation?
21:52
Speaker 2: Yes? So then I and buried in an old AOL account,
22:01
Speaker 2: I find that email from Karina with the whole conversation
22:04
Speaker 2: between her and Life laid out.
22:07
Speaker 8: I would like, absolutely love to see it.
22:09
Speaker 2: Let me send it to you. I will. Life screen
22:11
Speaker 2: name was chaotic detortion, which I think is just chaotic
22:15
Speaker 2: distortion spelled wrong.
22:17
Speaker 8: Okay, let me read this okay at ten seventy pm.
22:20
Speaker 2: Nice and as Karina reads, here for you, dear listener
22:25
Speaker 2: is a dramatic recreation of that I Am exchange, with
22:28
Speaker 2: two young actors playing the roles of Karina and Life.
22:35
Speaker 3: Hey, Hey, Life, what's up? Kayley's talking about what I think?
22:40
Speaker 2: She is?
22:41
Speaker 10: Right on?
22:41
Speaker 3: Zanga, hold on, let me see Kaylee likes me, right, Did.
22:49
Speaker 11: Lucia and Emily tell you something?
22:51
Speaker 3: Yeah? After school the other day? Yeah, she does well.
22:56
Speaker 3: If she comes on, will you tell her something? Yeah?
23:01
Speaker 3: If she comes on, tell her that I'll go out
23:03
Speaker 3: with her.
23:04
Speaker 10: But my health is always screwed with my life, so
23:06
Speaker 10: I'm probably not going to be able to be one
23:08
Speaker 10: hundred percent boyfrid material.
23:12
Speaker 2: Laithe had some sort of illness the whole time I
23:15
Speaker 2: knew him, but I never knew how sick he was
23:18
Speaker 2: or what he was even sick with. He sometimes had
23:21
Speaker 2: to leave school early, he was on crutches for a while,
23:24
Speaker 2: and there were days when he just looked frail. But
23:27
Speaker 2: at thirteen, we didn't think to ask any questions. Back then,
23:32
Speaker 2: Karina just thought it was sweet he was considering his
23:35
Speaker 2: health in his role as my future boyfriend.
23:39
Speaker 11: All but do you like her?
23:43
Speaker 3: This is kind of awkward.
23:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, all these years later and that, yeah, I makes
23:53
Speaker 2: my heart start pounding. I was wrong, I think see
23:57
Speaker 2: I was wrong. He liked me, he said he liked me.
24:02
Speaker 2: But then it goes on.
24:06
Speaker 10: Ohmg, don't tell her. I'm not crazy about her, but hey,
24:11
Speaker 10: she likes me. I don't hate her or anything. And kaylee'school,
24:20
Speaker 10: Yeah she is.
24:21
Speaker 11: So you want me to tell her that you'll go
24:23
Speaker 11: out with her? Why don't you just talk to her
24:25
Speaker 11: on Monday?
24:26
Speaker 3: Do you think I should?
24:27
Speaker 12: Yeah?
24:28
Speaker 11: Because I mean I don't think she would believe me,
24:30
Speaker 11: and it would be nicer if you told her. Are
24:33
Speaker 11: you getting her something on V Day?
24:35
Speaker 3: I guess when is Valentine's Day?
24:38
Speaker 11: Next next Tuesday, Omga, you should tell her on V
24:43
Speaker 11: Day because she hates V Day.
24:45
Speaker 3: WHOA, yeah, oh will.
24:48
Speaker 2: I always thought it was Laf who came up with
24:50
Speaker 2: the Valentine's Day plan, but it was actually Karina. It
24:55
Speaker 2: wasn't a romantic gesture at all. It was the gesture
24:58
Speaker 2: of a thoughtful friend.
25:00
Speaker 8: But I don't remember anything after that. I didn't even
25:03
Speaker 8: remember that. He didn't end up saying anything, like he
25:08
Speaker 8: didn't end up saying anything to you at all.
25:10
Speaker 2: No, we never talked about it, No, Kaylee, he did.
25:16
Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure he mentioned his health again. Maybe I
25:24
Speaker 8: like followed up and he was like, honestly, my health
25:27
Speaker 8: just like really isn't the best.
25:30
Speaker 2: So did life not ask me out simply because he
25:32
Speaker 2: was too ill? Was his not asking actually a romantic
25:36
Speaker 2: gesture something worthy of a Shakespearean tragedy or did he
25:41
Speaker 2: just not like me? I'd ask Slaf to talk on
25:49
Speaker 2: Zoom and I pray I won't break out or have
25:52
Speaker 2: a bad hair day, because you know, I want to
25:54
Speaker 2: look good. The morning of I put on an eyeshadow
25:58
Speaker 2: that someone once told me was flattering, and wear a
26:01
Speaker 2: T shirt for my favorite band because I figure it's
26:04
Speaker 2: cool to like music. Then I head to the studio
26:08
Speaker 2: and test the my her phone. Hello, Hello, all right,
26:12
Speaker 2: that's working. I feel ill. I feel physically ill. Oh
26:20
Speaker 2: my god, Okay, I can do this. Here we go
26:40
Speaker 2: on the zoom camera. You can't even see my t
26:43
Speaker 2: shirt or flattering eyeshadow. So that was a lot of
26:46
Speaker 2: wasted effort. I see that Leaife is in the waiting room.
26:50
Speaker 2: I press the admit button and he appears on screen.
26:54
Speaker 11: Hi.
26:56
Speaker 13: Hey.
26:57
Speaker 2: In spite of his deeper voice and tattoos, life seems
27:01
Speaker 2: the same, like there's no discrepancy between the person I imagined
27:06
Speaker 2: all these years and the one I'm actually looking at.
27:10
Speaker 2: How are you?
27:12
Speaker 6: I'm great, I'm doing great. How are you doing?
27:15
Speaker 2: I'm doing you know. Unfortunately, faced with the person I
27:19
Speaker 2: imagined all these years, I suddenly can't remember how to
27:23
Speaker 2: have a conversation. It's like I've lost twenty years of
27:27
Speaker 2: social skills. What what what's your life?
27:35
Speaker 6: My life? Well? I yeah, I don't know. I just
27:40
Speaker 6: do uh life things. You know, eat food, go to
27:44
Speaker 6: the grocery store. I've got a dog. You know, what's
27:48
Speaker 6: your dog of?
27:49
Speaker 2: Like, what's your dog's name?
27:52
Speaker 6: Ronan?
27:53
Speaker 2: Good given that I'm incapable of asking any question more
27:59
Speaker 2: specific than what is your life or who is your dog?
28:03
Speaker 2: Life takes the lead.
28:05
Speaker 6: They've been doing like a lot of activisty stuff in Tucson,
28:08
Speaker 6: and that consumes more of my time than I probably
28:13
Speaker 6: should let it.
28:15
Speaker 2: In fact, the nine day delay lay fasts for was
28:18
Speaker 2: because of his activism. A few weeks earlier, he was
28:21
Speaker 2: at a protest with the Stop Coop City movement when
28:25
Speaker 2: he was tasted and slammed against the ground by a
28:27
Speaker 2: police officer. He's been recovering from a concussion at this point.
28:33
Speaker 2: We're forty minutes into the conversation and I've somehow managed
28:37
Speaker 2: to avoid asking Laife any questions about eighth grade at all,
28:41
Speaker 2: Even though he knows we're here to talk about how
28:43
Speaker 2: much I liked him, Bringing up that time still makes
28:46
Speaker 2: me nervous. What do you remember about me?
28:53
Speaker 6: Yeah, I uh, I remember you being very tall and
28:58
Speaker 6: maybe a little awkward. But maybe it's just because of
29:01
Speaker 6: the crush or whatever.
29:01
Speaker 2: No, I was awkward, yes, yeah, yeah.
29:04
Speaker 6: Like I know that you told me at some point
29:07
Speaker 6: that you had a crush on me. We have like
29:09
Speaker 6: a vague memory of like there's like that stairwell Lucia
29:14
Speaker 6: telling me or something like that, like in the stairwell.
29:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. I ramble through my memories of what happened after
29:20
Speaker 2: that stairwell moment, and finally up to the question that
29:25
Speaker 2: I really came here to ask you were going to
29:28
Speaker 2: ask me out on Valentine's Day, but then that never happened,
29:33
Speaker 2: and I don't know why.
29:36
Speaker 6: Oof. I'm sorry, Yeah, I don't remember. Like the Zanga
29:43
Speaker 6: post sounds vaguely familiar.
29:46
Speaker 2: Can I send you, because I, in fact have these
29:49
Speaker 2: ims between you and Karina? No way can I email
29:52
Speaker 2: them to you?
29:53
Speaker 6: Yeah? See what cringeysque things I have to say.
29:59
Speaker 2: Leife mostly reads through the ims in silence, but at
30:03
Speaker 2: one point he makes a face and again goes oof.
30:07
Speaker 2: When he's done, he self consciously.
30:12
Speaker 6: All right, well that was that was That was fun?
30:16
Speaker 2: Do you you have no memory of this?
30:18
Speaker 6: I don't know. Vaguely, I guess like it's obviously obviously
30:23
Speaker 6: it happened.
30:24
Speaker 2: I mean, would be weird if I typed all this.
30:26
Speaker 6: Suffen, Yeah, yeah, it'd be pretty weird.
30:30
Speaker 2: What part were you oofing at?
30:33
Speaker 13: Oh?
30:33
Speaker 6: Just I mean, don't tell her. I'm not crazy about her,
30:37
Speaker 6: but hey, she likes it was just like that.
30:40
Speaker 13: Yikes.
30:46
Speaker 6: I don't really know what happened. Obviously we didn't date.
30:50
Speaker 6: I don't I don't think totally forgotten.
30:54
Speaker 2: I mean that would kind of be worse if we did.
30:56
Speaker 2: Dan gone from your memory.
30:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, that'd be yeah.
31:01
Speaker 2: I mean, like, it seems like you did not like me.
31:04
Speaker 6: I do remember you being like very funny, but uh yeah,
31:11
Speaker 6: I do agree, though, I think I like wasn't like
31:14
Speaker 6: into you.
31:16
Speaker 2: To use the eighth grade parlance, But then Lafe phrase
31:24
Speaker 2: is a key thing. I've been wondering about the explanation
31:28
Speaker 2: that he gave to Karina at the time his mysterious
31:31
Speaker 2: health issues.
31:33
Speaker 6: I was like very very very sick. I was like
31:37
Speaker 6: in the process essentially of getting diagnosed with Crohn's disease.
31:41
Speaker 2: Crones is an autoimmune disease. Life's intestine was attacking itself,
31:46
Speaker 2: making it hard for him to do basic things like
31:49
Speaker 2: walk or eat. In the years I knew him, though,
31:53
Speaker 2: Laife didn't know he had crones. He didn't know what
31:55
Speaker 2: was wrong with him. He was just getting worse and worse.
32:00
Speaker 2: It took over two years of waiting rooms and misdiagnoses
32:04
Speaker 2: before he finally got to a doctor who helped him
32:07
Speaker 2: at that point he was so sick, but the doctor
32:10
Speaker 2: pulled his mom aside to say that she thought Leife
32:13
Speaker 2: might die. They immediately admitted him to the hospital, where
32:17
Speaker 2: he stayed for three months. I'm not a monster, so
32:26
Speaker 2: of course I'd never say that I'm happy someone was
32:29
Speaker 2: so ill they almost died. But hearing all this, I
32:33
Speaker 2: can't help but feel kind of relieved, because if life
32:36
Speaker 2: was that sick the whole time I knew him, then
32:38
Speaker 2: it wasn't about me not being good enough. There probably
32:41
Speaker 2: just wasn't any space in his brain for dating and
32:44
Speaker 2: crushes at all. So I put this to.
32:47
Speaker 6: Liife, I for sure had crushes.
32:51
Speaker 2: Well there goes that theory. Can I ask you how
32:54
Speaker 2: to crush on?
32:56
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, I know I had a crush on Soca.
33:01
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you that. Actually, that's what
33:04
Speaker 2: I always suspected. You got me figured out circa up
33:09
Speaker 2: at our school one year from Ireland, and all the
33:11
Speaker 2: guys instantly loved her. Somehow, in that one year she
33:15
Speaker 2: dated three or four people. I, as someone who'd never
33:19
Speaker 2: dated anyone, found this profoundly unfair, Like what about the
33:23
Speaker 2: rest of us? In my moments of insecurity, I always
33:27
Speaker 2: used to think there's no way Life likes me, because
33:31
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he likes Cerca. So while on the
33:34
Speaker 2: one hand, it's validating to hear that my read was right,
33:38
Speaker 2: on the other hand, it's devastating to hear that my
33:41
Speaker 2: read was right. I move on to my next theory.
33:44
Speaker 2: Do you think that any of it was height related?
33:49
Speaker 1: Uh?
33:52
Speaker 6: I don't think so. I don't think so.
33:56
Speaker 2: So what was my problem? I ask Laife if I
33:59
Speaker 2: had some defect that prevented him from seeing me romantically,
34:03
Speaker 2: and although he really thinks about it, an come up
34:09
Speaker 2: with an answer.
34:10
Speaker 6: I'm just trying to think if like, there has ever
34:13
Speaker 6: been anyone where I like, I'd love to date this person,
34:16
Speaker 6: but they've got this defect.
34:17
Speaker 2: You know who he falls for. Life says has always
34:21
Speaker 2: felt beyond words, especially in the eighth grade. Well, how
34:30
Speaker 2: do you feel about talking? Am I freaking you out?
34:34
Speaker 8: No?
34:34
Speaker 6: Not at all. Okay, it's fun to catch up and
34:38
Speaker 6: like hear what you remember. It's really nice to talk
34:41
Speaker 6: to Yeah, you too, killy, and talk to you soon,
34:44
Speaker 6: all right, talk.
34:45
Speaker 12: To you soon.
34:51
Speaker 2: I'd felt good while I was talking to Leife. He
34:54
Speaker 2: was cool and nice, as he'd always been, and yet
34:58
Speaker 2: as soon as we hang up, I suddenly feel really sad.
35:02
Speaker 2: I sit there for a while alone in the studio,
35:06
Speaker 2: and then, as I always have in times of stress, Hello, honey,
35:11
Speaker 2: I call my mom. I filler in on the conversation
35:15
Speaker 2: and how the only logical conclusion seems to be that, yes,
35:19
Speaker 2: I was right, I am in fact undateable.
35:22
Speaker 5: Who wouldn't want to date you?
35:23
Speaker 12: You're awesome?
35:25
Speaker 2: Thanks, And I mean, I know i'm your mother, but
35:29
Speaker 2: that is also true. I feel like that's true in
35:32
Speaker 2: terms of like people wanting to like be my friend,
35:35
Speaker 2: but I don't feel like that's true for like dating.
35:39
Speaker 9: You feel it not just from when you were younger, but.
35:42
Speaker 2: You feel it even now.
35:43
Speaker 9: Yeah, that makes me feel kind of sad. I'm sorry,
35:52
Speaker 9: don't be sorry.
35:55
Speaker 2: It makes me feel kind of sad, and it makes
35:57
Speaker 2: me feel mad at people that don't see you. I
36:08
Speaker 2: don't Oh. Yeah. I think I'm having a hard time
36:10
Speaker 2: characterizing it because I do feel like weirdly emotional, but
36:13
Speaker 2: also like he was nice and the conversation was good,
36:15
Speaker 2: you know, So I don't want it to seem like
36:17
Speaker 2: I thought he was like being an asshole or anything
36:19
Speaker 2: like he wasn't.
36:21
Speaker 5: I don't hear that from you at all.
36:22
Speaker 2: I don't hear anything about any judgment about him. Yeah,
36:27
Speaker 2: you trying to piece it together for you? Yeah, yeah,
36:32
Speaker 2: give yourself a little space. I give myself several weeks
36:41
Speaker 2: of space. And then as I keep trying to piece
36:45
Speaker 2: it together, I decide there's one more person I want
36:48
Speaker 2: to speak with. Very excited to talk to you. So
36:51
Speaker 2: thanks for being up to do this weird thing.
36:54
Speaker 12: Yeah, no, it is weird, and I definitely feel weird
36:57
Speaker 12: about it.
36:58
Speaker 2: This is Circa, the Irish girl that Lafe and the
37:02
Speaker 2: rest of the entire fucking class was into. Because in
37:07
Speaker 2: case it's not weird enough to reach out to my
37:09
Speaker 2: crush after nearly twenty years, why not also reach out
37:13
Speaker 2: to my crushes crush. I always suspected he had a
37:15
Speaker 2: crush on you, and he said, yes, did you know.
37:18
Speaker 12: That M like Jesus, like he would like he would
37:24
Speaker 12: like burn CDs for me and stuff.
37:27
Speaker 5: She knows.
37:28
Speaker 1: I feel like he also gave.
37:29
Speaker 12: Me a sticker that said George W. Bush is a
37:34
Speaker 12: punk ass chump, So.
37:35
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, I had an awareness.
37:38
Speaker 2: I want to talk to Circa because I think of
37:40
Speaker 2: her as the anti me like, here's how Circa's Valentine's
37:44
Speaker 2: Day went. In junior high, she walked up to her
37:47
Speaker 2: boyfriend at the time holding a Hers She's kiss and said,
37:51
Speaker 2: do you want this or do you want a real one?
37:54
Speaker 2: I wanted to tell me how she achieved such romantic success,
37:57
Speaker 2: what she had that I didn't have. I had laid
38:00
Speaker 2: all this out and my initial message to her.
38:03
Speaker 12: So I said this to my husband and he was
38:06
Speaker 12: kind of like, well, it's obvious, isn't it. Like you
38:08
Speaker 12: were just new and it And I think that's exactly it.
38:11
Speaker 12: Like you guys had all been together from the age
38:14
Speaker 12: of two, do you know? So I literally was just
38:19
Speaker 12: new and different. I honestly think it was that simple.
38:22
Speaker 2: I think that's part of it. But I feel like
38:24
Speaker 2: there was something about your personality too, Like I feel
38:27
Speaker 2: like there was some like charisma or like confidence or
38:31
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like I think.
38:33
Speaker 12: That that has got to be fakeatily make it though,
38:36
Speaker 12: doesn't it? Because looking back and looking at the challenge
38:40
Speaker 12: that was laid at my doorstep, I probably just leant
38:43
Speaker 12: into some kind of confident persona.
38:48
Speaker 2: Sarah only attended Near North for a single year, and
38:51
Speaker 2: it wasn't an easy transition because of her mom's job.
38:55
Speaker 2: She was upbraided at twelve years old and plopped down
38:58
Speaker 2: in a foreign country. Her dad, all her old friends
39:02
Speaker 2: stayed back in Ireland. She remembers the day she came
39:06
Speaker 2: to visit our school for the first time.
39:08
Speaker 12: And I remember crying, and I remember saying, I don't
39:10
Speaker 12: want to go there. My memory isn't a feeling invincible
39:15
Speaker 12: or anything like, quite the opposite, like.
39:20
Speaker 3: Like overwhelmed and shut down.
39:23
Speaker 8: You know.
39:25
Speaker 2: It's that sense of panic. Sirka thinks that made her
39:28
Speaker 2: act so confident when she started school with us. It
39:31
Speaker 2: was her way of managing Still, in the year I
39:34
Speaker 2: knew her, she often felt insecure, and dating didn't make
39:38
Speaker 2: that feeling go away anyway you cut it. Boyfriend, No
39:43
Speaker 2: boyfriend junior high is hard, Sarka tells me she's been
39:54
Speaker 2: married for about a year and a half. Now, how
39:57
Speaker 2: did you guys meet? We went on Tinder. I'd ask
40:01
Speaker 2: Slafe the same question about how he met his partner.
40:05
Speaker 6: Actually through Tinder. We are a tender success story. My
40:09
Speaker 6: boyfriend threw tender too, nice.
40:11
Speaker 2: Sarca life me. Even though I always felt like they
40:15
Speaker 2: had some power, I lacked. Almost two decades later, we
40:19
Speaker 2: all ended up in the same place, living with people
40:22
Speaker 2: we met on Tinder. Back when I talked with my
40:32
Speaker 2: friend Karina, I'd asked her what her impression had been
40:34
Speaker 2: to me when we knew each other in junior high.
40:38
Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, Kayleie, I adored you. I remember you
40:43
Speaker 8: being very intelligent, you were very funny. I know you
40:48
Speaker 8: like you were, you were tall, just you know, at
40:51
Speaker 8: that age, I feel like you always look at everyone
40:54
Speaker 8: else and like, don't form your confidence or like embrace
40:57
Speaker 8: every bit of yourself until later in life, and I
41:01
Speaker 8: remember being like, she has so many things going for her,
41:04
Speaker 8: Like I. I hope that she because comes more confident.
41:12
Speaker 2: My past self was tall and awkward and the boy
41:15
Speaker 2: I liked didn't like me. And all these years later,
41:19
Speaker 2: I'm still tall and still awkward, and I still often
41:22
Speaker 2: feel left behind by romance. But then again, the junior
41:27
Speaker 2: high me would never have had the courage to have
41:30
Speaker 2: these conversations at all. So maybe I did become more confident,
41:35
Speaker 2: and some people do want to date me. I'd want
41:38
Speaker 2: to date me. These days, I don't think too much
41:44
Speaker 2: about Valentine's Day. It turns out that I don't like
41:47
Speaker 2: being one of those performative couples anymore than I liked
41:51
Speaker 2: watching those performative couples this year. On February fourteenth, my
41:56
Speaker 2: boyfriend made dinner. I did the dishes. Happy Tuesday, He said,
42:02
Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday. I said. Then we watched TV. It was
42:07
Speaker 2: nice now that the fern ures returning to its goodwill home,
42:48
Speaker 2: now that the last month's rent is skiing with the
42:53
Speaker 2: damage to post, take this moment to dissolve, if we message.
43:00
Speaker 3: If we tried, she felt.
43:04
Speaker 2: Around for five two months.
43:08
Speaker 3: From things accidentally.
43:15
Speaker 2: Hello Hello, so as promised. My conversation with Anna Konkle,
43:20
Speaker 2: co creator of Penn fifteen, we talked about how emotional
43:24
Speaker 2: and viscerally bizarre it is to return to that middle
43:27
Speaker 2: school space again as an adult.
43:29
Speaker 13: I mean it was so humiliating. Yeah, Like the first season, especially,
43:35
Speaker 13: nobody knew what it was.
43:36
Speaker 5: The crew didn't know what it was.
43:38
Speaker 13: So people signed up to come on set and a
43:40
Speaker 13: lot of them haven't even read the script and they're like,
43:43
Speaker 13: what the fuck did I sign up for?
43:45
Speaker 5: Like day one, Maya's and her.
43:47
Speaker 13: Bowlcut masturbating, like okay, wait, we're really going to try
43:51
Speaker 13: to play thirteen, like this is so embarrassing, and then
43:54
Speaker 13: being surrounded by the real kids and stepping on stage
43:57
Speaker 13: and be like.
43:58
Speaker 5: Were you haha, you don't really think we are We're thirty.
44:02
Speaker 13: The night before it came out, I just got in
44:05
Speaker 13: like the fetal position on the floor and was like,
44:08
Speaker 13: this is.
44:09
Speaker 5: So embarrassing, Like what did you do?
44:13
Speaker 13: And you know what the truth is is it felt
44:15
Speaker 13: embarrassing for years after actually, like people would come up
44:19
Speaker 13: to me and say like, I love it, and I'd
44:21
Speaker 13: be like.
44:22
Speaker 2: What are you doing today, Like yeah.
44:25
Speaker 5: I couldn't hear it. It just I felt so naked.
44:29
Speaker 13: How was it for you making this versus when people
44:33
Speaker 13: started listening to it?
44:34
Speaker 5: Or have you had and waves of.
44:37
Speaker 2: This writing it and putting it together and like playing
44:39
Speaker 2: it for people here was actually like positive, Like I
44:42
Speaker 2: felt like, oh, I'm really expressing what I felt and
44:44
Speaker 2: it's connecting with people. And then I feel like once
44:48
Speaker 2: it was out in the world, it was a bit
44:50
Speaker 2: more of a mixed bag than I was expecting.
44:52
Speaker 5: I mean, how people felt.
44:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, like there were people who really connected with it,
44:56
Speaker 2: but there were a lot of people who hated it.
44:59
Speaker 13: Really I loved it, I mean, but obviously I'm gonna
45:03
Speaker 13: love it, I guess.
45:05
Speaker 2: I mean that is something I was curious about cause
45:07
Speaker 2: I feel like there were people who just I don't
45:09
Speaker 2: understand why middle school would be important or why you
45:12
Speaker 2: would want to think about it or go back to it,
45:13
Speaker 2: Like have you run into that at all? Are there
45:15
Speaker 2: people who just don't think about it?
45:17
Speaker 13: There's something about it that makes people really uneasy. Yeah,
45:21
Speaker 13: from the pitches of us first talking about it, so
45:26
Speaker 13: many men in particular actually like had to get up
45:30
Speaker 13: from a table or would be like I'm getting nauseous.
45:32
Speaker 5: Sorry, hold on. Maybe it's like physiological disassociation. Yeah, that
45:38
Speaker 5: a lot of people can do.
45:48
Speaker 2: What was it like like working with the kids, Like
45:51
Speaker 2: do you feel like you had to translate to them
45:53
Speaker 2: or did they kind of get it?
45:54
Speaker 13: Most of the kids, when they're actually thirteen, aren't at
45:58
Speaker 13: an age that they're going.
46:00
Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, I get why that would be. They're like,
46:03
Speaker 5: I didn't do that yesterday, right, if that's true? Just
46:07
Speaker 5: so in.
46:08
Speaker 13: It, like seeing the social dynamics play out on set,
46:12
Speaker 13: that was very meta. There would I won't say who,
46:15
Speaker 13: but it would be like, oh, okay, he's the most popular.
46:17
Speaker 3: He's the most.
46:18
Speaker 13: Popular yeah, like all the guys are texting her or whatever,
46:22
Speaker 13: and and we always found the right kids.
46:25
Speaker 5: I thought the kids in your podcasts were great.
46:28
Speaker 2: Thanks to my My dad runs a community theater in Iowa,
46:32
Speaker 2: and he helped me cast those kids. That was very sweet. Yeah,
46:37
Speaker 2: did you do community theater growing up? Yeah? I was
46:40
Speaker 2: never very good, but I because my dad like ran
46:43
Speaker 2: these like kids summer camps and stuff. I did always go.
46:46
Speaker 5: That's a lot of pressure for your dad to run
46:48
Speaker 5: it and then like auditioning for your day.
46:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I wanted to be more of a
46:53
Speaker 2: like a star because I wanted to be like close
46:56
Speaker 2: to my dad, you know.
46:57
Speaker 5: But I relate to that too.
46:59
Speaker 13: I remember going on like some work trip with him,
47:02
Speaker 13: and I remember like going to a pub and they're
47:05
Speaker 13: being karaoke and a girl went up and sang yeah
47:09
Speaker 13: Nowhere Man by the Beatles, and he was like, wow,
47:14
Speaker 13: she's incredible. He almost like cried and he was clapping
47:17
Speaker 13: in a really intense way. I don't remember what song
47:21
Speaker 13: I sang next, but I sang a song and I
47:24
Speaker 13: remember like finishing and like waiting for the same eyes
47:28
Speaker 13: and being like I'm.
47:30
Speaker 5: Right here, Dad, and be like no, that was good.
47:45
Speaker 5: I had been estranged from my dad.
47:47
Speaker 13: I mean, this is another actually crazy layer to the
47:49
Speaker 13: whole show. It's like I hadn't seen my dad in
47:52
Speaker 13: five years, but I'm like acting with the TV version
47:56
Speaker 13: of my dad and the one that I missed. Yeah,
48:01
Speaker 13: and about a year before we started writing the last season,
48:05
Speaker 13: my dad and I had sort of been like communicating
48:08
Speaker 13: more and trying to fix things.
48:10
Speaker 5: And then he called me and found out he had cancer.
48:15
Speaker 2: Oh man, and.
48:18
Speaker 5: Filming started.
48:19
Speaker 2: Whoa.
48:20
Speaker 13: So I was like trying to manage nurses and all
48:24
Speaker 13: these other things and be there as much as I
48:27
Speaker 13: possibly could, flying back and forth and filming the show.
48:31
Speaker 13: But there were these scenes that were like overlapping with
48:35
Speaker 13: these huge moments where like my dad went to hospice
48:41
Speaker 13: and I had to go back to la and film
48:44
Speaker 13: the scene where Curtis moves out of the house and
48:50
Speaker 13: gets an apartment and he has like a midlife crisis
48:52
Speaker 13: and gets this seabring convertible.
48:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we're in.
48:57
Speaker 13: The convertible, like the camera's right on us as we're
49:00
Speaker 13: driving at night with the top down and the air
49:03
Speaker 13: the cold air blasting, which is like what my dad
49:05
Speaker 13: and I always did. And he had had that same seabring,
49:09
Speaker 13: and we're having the talk about him moving out just
49:12
Speaker 13: as my dad's gone into hospice, like moving out of.
49:16
Speaker 2: The world, right, yeah, yeah.
49:18
Speaker 5: And I just lost it. Talk about feeling like a
49:22
Speaker 5: kid as an adult.
49:30
Speaker 13: There was something about the extremeness of what we were
49:35
Speaker 13: trying to do, like, oh, we're building sets that look
49:38
Speaker 13: like our real houses.
49:40
Speaker 5: It was like stepping into a memory.
49:42
Speaker 2: Were there particular scenes that were particularly intense to shoot?
49:48
Speaker 13: Definitely the first day of filming at my house, Anna
49:53
Speaker 13: Cone's you know house I had given so many specifics about.
49:58
Speaker 13: It was nicer than my real house probably, But you know,
50:02
Speaker 13: my parents in real life divorced, they told me in
50:06
Speaker 13: seventh grade or eighth grade, and I've just had such
50:11
Speaker 13: a hard time accepting their divorce and walking in and
50:16
Speaker 13: seeing the house with like both of their things, like
50:19
Speaker 13: the drops being like together, like the loon blanket that
50:23
Speaker 13: I had described my dad having, or the kind of
50:25
Speaker 13: lounger you know that he had that went to his
50:27
Speaker 13: apartment and what my mom got to eat, and it
50:29
Speaker 13: was like it was all intermingled. And then on the
50:32
Speaker 13: bookshelves or all of these like half funny half devastating
50:36
Speaker 13: pictures of me between two loving parents and they're my
50:40
Speaker 13: you know, set parents. So it was like silly, but
50:42
Speaker 13: I just wanted to cry. I was like going back
50:46
Speaker 13: to when to the good times, you know, and it
50:48
Speaker 13: was a better version of the good times than what
50:50
Speaker 13: I had.
50:50
Speaker 5: Really have a lot of pictures the three of us.
50:53
Speaker 2: I mean, like after doing the show and like being
50:56
Speaker 2: in those moments again, do you see anything in that
50:58
Speaker 2: time differently? Like did it change your perspective at all?
51:02
Speaker 13: H I think it's interesting how people at that age
51:08
Speaker 13: have such different relationships with their own sexuality, Like that
51:12
Speaker 13: part in your podcast, in the episode where the sort
51:16
Speaker 13: of popular girl goes up to the guy and gives
51:19
Speaker 13: him hers she kiss and says, like what does she say?
51:23
Speaker 6: So?
51:23
Speaker 2: Do you want this or do you want a real
51:24
Speaker 2: one that's like the Like I was like, well, I
51:29
Speaker 2: don't have that DNA, Like I don't understand, And then
51:33
Speaker 2: she sort of went on to say, I think I
51:36
Speaker 2: created this persona, right, but how much is that persona?
51:40
Speaker 13: And how much is that just a different physical comfort?
51:44
Speaker 13: I was always like such a goodie two shoes in
51:47
Speaker 13: that way, and like kind of known as a prude,
51:51
Speaker 13: and I.
51:52
Speaker 5: Was just not physically.
51:55
Speaker 13: Interested in guys like that, and if somehow they were
52:02
Speaker 13: like sensing because my friends were more comfortable with that.
52:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's a good point. I think similarly, I
52:08
Speaker 2: was not the most comfortab with it either, Like I
52:10
Speaker 2: would have these infatuations with people, but Tybia just meant like,
52:13
Speaker 2: we're going to have this mental connection where we understand
52:16
Speaker 2: each other.
52:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, like it was romantic.
52:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
52:20
Speaker 13: I remember when we first conceived a pen and our
52:24
Speaker 13: agents or something being like, you need to add like
52:26
Speaker 13: character descriptions, and we just knew how we'd play them,
52:29
Speaker 13: but we hadn't been putting words to it. And that
52:34
Speaker 13: was one distinction that I finally was like, she's romantic.
52:38
Speaker 2: Do you remember what else you said in your character description.
52:41
Speaker 2: I'm like, I would find it so hard to have
52:42
Speaker 2: to like sum myself up in a character way, right, Yeah.
52:46
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think like tall bad posture. I think that
52:51
Speaker 13: I would have had the like hand over my stomach
52:54
Speaker 13: that I always did loyal to a false friend probably
53:00
Speaker 13: like gets her identity from how much she admires Maya,
53:06
Speaker 13: and the fact that my admires her back gives Anna confidence.
53:10
Speaker 2: I mean, that's another thing I feel like you guys
53:12
Speaker 2: captured so well. Was just like the energy that having
53:14
Speaker 2: a friendship like that gives you where you're like feeding
53:17
Speaker 2: on each other and amping each other up.
53:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was the saddest part I think about it.
53:21
Speaker 13: Ending was like that innocence of friendship as actors and
53:27
Speaker 13: adult best friends of going like right now we get
53:31
Speaker 13: to live in this world where playing thirteen is like
53:35
Speaker 13: you are just glued at the hip and as you
53:38
Speaker 13: get older, you know, so many of us will lean
53:43
Speaker 13: on their romantic act to you know, like to a
53:50
Speaker 13: romantic partner.
53:51
Speaker 2: I feel like that's part of what's sad sometimes about
53:54
Speaker 2: being single as an adult is that everyone does lean
53:56
Speaker 2: so much on their partner and you're like, wait, where
53:59
Speaker 2: I now, I'm not anybody's number one because they're number one?
54:02
Speaker 2: Is the person at their west? Like yeah, yeah.
54:05
Speaker 13: I think it's something I've really struggled with, to be honest,
54:07
Speaker 13: and adulting is that expectation same?
54:11
Speaker 5: You know, I'm lucky that May and I think are
54:14
Speaker 5: a little bit aware of it and we will go
54:17
Speaker 5: to the doctors with each.
54:18
Speaker 13: Other, like, you know, there's things like but I think
54:22
Speaker 13: it's not the norm.
54:36
Speaker 2: Thanks so much to Anna and to everyone who helped
54:38
Speaker 2: put this episode together, and for all my fellow pen
54:41
Speaker 2: fifteen fans out there. You can listen to my full
54:44
Speaker 2: conversation with Anna if you subscribe to Pushkin Plus. I
54:48
Speaker 2: was very excited to get all this insight into making
54:50
Speaker 2: the show, and I don't want to hoard that insight
54:53
Speaker 2: from other pen fifteen heads, So go to pushkin dot fm,
54:57
Speaker 2: slash plus to sign up. We'll be back next week
55:01
Speaker 2: with our final encore of the summer, and then the
55:04
Speaker 2: new season of Heavyweight begins September eighteenth, inst