Latest / Identity at the Center / #233 - Another Garbage Plate of IAM

Transcript

#233 - Another Garbage Plate of IAM · Identity at the Center

• 0:05
  This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
• 0:11
  AM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and
• 0:17
  Jeff Steadman. Welcome to the Identity at the
• 0:21
  Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
• 0:23
  Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff.
• 0:24
  How are you? Oh, not so bad yourself.
• 0:28
  It's doing good. I'm so break down the what do we
• 0:31
  call this? The 4th wall or 5th wall?
• 0:33
  4th wall Yeah. Pull back the curtain.
• 0:35
  What's going on? There's usually 4 walls though,
• 0:37
  right? Well, so there's three walls.
• 0:41
  Typically when you're talking about like media, it's the two
• 0:46
  walls on the left of the one behind the actors.
• 0:48
  The 4th wall is the one that you're looking through that
• 0:51
  you're not supposed to have interaction with, but
• 0:54
  occasionally. We do kick down that 4th wall
• 0:56
  and now and we're talking directly to our audience.
• 0:59
  Doesn't make any sense in the context of a podcast.
• 1:01
  But we just go with it. Yeah.
• 1:03
  No, it's well, I'm glad you understood the the whole context
• 1:06
  that I was saying because I didn't but now I do.
• 1:10
  And just so kicking down the 4th wall, you're in a hotel that's
• 1:16
  why you sound the way you do. And I'm at home and it's
• 1:20
  Saturday and is manual labor Saturday for me, which I'm not
• 1:26
  used to doing. And I'm like exhausted and I
• 1:29
  hardly did anything. Let's just be clear, like I had
• 1:34
  a bunch of contractors here and I was running around and and
• 1:38
  helping them do and I was moving some things.
• 1:40
  But reality, I wasn't doing very much physical labor yet.
• 1:45
  It's exhausting. Yeah, I'm management.
• 1:48
  I choose. I choose not to do that if I can
• 1:50
  avoid it. Hey, I think it's a good thing
• 1:54
  that you can do for the economy to spend money to spur the
• 1:58
  economy on. And at the same time, you don't
• 2:01
  have to do those things. So it's a win win.
• 2:04
  Yeah, well, I definitely do my part in that case then.
• 2:06
  So it's for the economy, let's just call it that.
• 2:08
  Not my own laziness or ineptitude.
• 2:12
  Yeah, it's it's you being altruistic.
• 2:17
  Yeah, yeah, I like that on that. Yeah, I'm altruistic spending
• 2:20
  money so I don't have to do things.
• 2:24
  So should we talk about the elephant in the room real quick?
• 2:26
  We should because it's. It's been bothering me for it's
• 2:31
  been bothering me. Two weeks now, Yeah.
• 2:33
  So in our last episode we ended kind of talking about NFL and I
• 2:37
  went hard on the Bears like I was all in and you know, made
• 2:43
  that prediction I think 3 weeks before we started.
• 2:46
  Today is September 23rd, so now there's two games have already
• 2:50
  passed. Bears look like crap.
• 2:53
  Jordan Love tore them up in the first game.
• 2:55
  They made Baker Mayfield look like an MVP in his game against
• 2:59
  and their game against Tampa Bay.
• 3:01
  So just as quickly as I drank the Bears kool-aid before the
• 3:04
  scenes the season started, I am back off of it.
• 3:08
  This is why you have come to identity the Center for football
• 3:10
  picks. Yeah, well, I thought the the
• 3:13
  elephant in the room was going to be my pick for the Super Bowl
• 3:15
  winner of the New York Jets. And while they did win the first
• 3:19
  game, which I predicted, the star quarterback that they
• 3:23
  brought over, you know, lost the rest of the season on the first
• 3:27
  side of the down. So that's pretty bad.
• 3:29
  So did I mention Go Eagles? No, they look good.
• 3:35
  I mean, but they were already a favor in the beginning.
• 3:37
  And I was also a night. I'm also a Niners fan and I.
• 3:40
  Did not pick the night because I thought that was too easy that
• 3:42
  they would beat up on Pittsburgh and they absolutely did and now
• 3:44
  they are three and oh as of the Thursday night game last night
• 3:48
  where they they took care of business against the a not a not
• 3:51
  good New York Giants team. So how about some more non
• 3:55
  identity news. I mean it came out this past
• 3:59
  week that Delta is changing their Sky Miles program, which I
• 4:04
  mean, you know, it's just like with football teams, you go all
• 4:09
  in on your airline and if they change the rules of the game, at
• 4:14
  least they did give us plenty of notice.
• 4:16
  But this is a change that will go into effect when like next
• 4:20
  year, some of it's the year that's like.
• 4:22
  February 1st, just like that. Like their cycle runs February
• 4:25
  1st to January 31st. And yeah, I don't know how I
• 4:30
  feel about it yet, other than I don't know if I guess you know
• 4:33
  if you're a diamond member now. It got a lot harder to become
• 4:37
  diamonds, also been a lot harder to become platinum.
• 4:40
  But I feel like I'm right on the cusp of staying in the platinum
• 4:43
  area. But I don't know.
• 4:45
  I mean, the biggest thing for me was they're cutting the number
• 4:48
  of Delta club visits to only 10 per year.
• 4:52
  Even if you have the Delta Club like Amex card, which is what
• 4:55
  I've been using. Yeah, so and then why?
• 4:58
  Would I have the Amex card and that's not good anymore is what
• 5:02
  I'm asking. There's some other Amex card too
• 5:05
  that is not the D1 that somehow you get 5 visits and then I
• 5:10
  think you can get visits at the other clubs as well.
• 5:13
  So maybe that would be the way to go.
• 5:15
  But the the gist of the change is that you know they're no
• 5:19
  longer using a combination of miles flown or segments flown
• 5:23
  plus qualifying dollars. Now it's just qualifying dial
• 5:27
  dollars. My opinion?
• 5:29
  Straight, straight cash on me. Straight cash on me.
• 5:32
  My my opinion is that so, so Delta is always more expensive
• 5:40
  than American Airlines, so they have a lot of competing routes
• 5:44
  and I've let's just say I've rarely seen the circumstance
• 5:48
  where Delta's cheaper. Now in my opinion, they provide
• 5:52
  a much better service and it's worth it to pay more.
• 5:58
  But my feeling is like this is to try to push people to book
• 6:04
  the more expensive flights. Maybe for business travelers to
• 6:11
  wait till the last minute to book your flight, things like
• 6:14
  that. Yeah, I mean, higher fares
• 6:17
  obviously will help with that, spending a lot of money on the
• 6:20
  Amex card. I mean, they're just a bank now.
• 6:22
  That's basically what it is, is they want people to spend money
• 6:25
  on their Amex, you know, their branded Amex cards.
• 6:28
  So if you spend $75,000 on your Amex.
• 6:33
  Reserve card, guess what, you get to go to the club for free
• 6:37
  as many times as you want, you know all the next year.
• 6:39
  But if you spend 74,000 dollars, 999, guess what, you're limited
• 6:44
  to 10. So I don't know, it just I'm,
• 6:48
  I'm seriously thinking about what I'm going to do not this
• 6:51
  year but going into next year. So meaning for the 2024 kind of
• 6:56
  mileage accruing season into 2025?
• 7:02
  I have choices. I can either go American or
• 7:04
  Delta. Those are really kind of my my
• 7:05
  only two real choices, living where I live and we'll see what
• 7:09
  happens. There's I can tell you right now
• 7:11
  the the delta subreddit is not happy about these changes.
• 7:16
  I I mean, what do you think? What are the odds that they they
• 7:22
  renege or change their mind on these changes?
• 7:27
  I don't think there's any chance whatsoever, really.
• 7:32
  Yeah, I just don't see it happening because they've
• 7:34
  already come out and said it. They're basically following
• 7:36
  American. American does this already.
• 7:38
  They have a very similar mileage approach or dollars approach I
• 7:42
  should say, where it's based on dollar spends.
• 7:45
  Now theirs is a little bit easier I think to accrue, you
• 7:48
  know, certain statuses. The dollar value amount seems to
• 7:52
  be a little bit lower. But this is just where the
• 7:55
  industry's going. United is starting to do this as
• 7:57
  well. It really doesn't matter how far
• 7:59
  you fly. Or even how many times you fly
• 8:02
  it's how expensive are your flights and are you spending
• 8:06
  money on whatever the Co rented credit card is to, you know,
• 8:10
  drive that up. I think they made like $4
• 8:11
  billion on the Amex spend of their customers.
• 8:16
  OK. So just one comment somewhat in
• 8:20
  their defense is so the delta clubs whatever was last year or
• 8:25
  something like that, it was absolutely ridiculous.
• 8:27
  You get to the club and it still are stand in line.
• 8:29
  If you only had, well no it had, they changed the rules and then
• 8:34
  it like cleared up right, But now it's a little bit
• 8:36
  ridiculous. So what happened?
• 8:40
  I think. Just more people flying.
• 8:42
  I mean flights are up everywhere.
• 8:43
  The airport that I my home airport is Asheville, NC and
• 8:48
  every month it's been 25% busier than the previous month for like
• 8:53
  3 years straight minus pandemic kind of stuff.
• 8:57
  It's just there's way more people flying and.
• 9:01
  I do think there are probably too many people who have access
• 9:03
  to the club for a reason. But I've never.
• 9:07
  I can tell you if having flown United out of Chicago for a
• 9:09
  decade, never once had to wait to get into the United club at
• 9:13
  O'Hare, which is like they're one of their hubs, Atlanta's
• 9:16
  been totally different story. Delta.
• 9:19
  Yeah, I, you know, I kind of feel like the other thing is
• 9:22
  like the club experience is kind of like falling off a little bit
• 9:27
  it the seats are very close to each other.
• 9:30
  I feel like the food is still good, but it's not that great.
• 9:34
  But it's better than sitting in the at the gate, stuff like
• 9:39
  that. Sometimes, yeah, I can tell you
• 9:42
  I'm not standing outside of a club for more than 3 minutes to
• 9:46
  get in. That's time I'll find just go
• 9:48
  find a quiet part of the terminal.
• 9:49
  I mean, free food and free Wi-Fi used to be the draw.
• 9:53
  Now you can get free Wi-Fi pretty much at every every, you
• 9:57
  know, airport. Food's a separate story, but I
• 10:00
  don't think the food is not that much better than I would the
• 10:04
  restaurant for it. Yeah, yeah, so.
• 10:09
  We'll see. Yeah, I guess we'll see.
• 10:11
  And you know, I think if I'm actually a little more
• 10:15
  optimistic that if enough people complain about it, they may do
• 10:19
  something, especially this this bit with the you'd only go to
• 10:23
  the club 10 times and let's just spend $75,000 bunch of people
• 10:27
  drop their cards, which I'm considering, right?
• 10:30
  I wouldn't have considered it otherwise.
• 10:32
  But if bunch of people drop their cards, then you know
• 10:35
  that's going to really hit their top line.
• 10:39
  But maybe that's what they want. Maybe that's how they solve
• 10:41
  crowding. I don't know.
• 10:43
  But I'm with you care enough about the crowding to.
• 10:47
  I don't think that the crowding is a big enough problem that
• 10:50
  they're willing to take a big hit to their top line.
• 10:54
  Not man. Make money and then we'll figure
• 10:55
  out how to fix it later exactly. What else we've been working on?
• 11:03
  I've been working on the YouTube channel, so I kind of teased it.
• 11:06
  Maybe there's an episode or two ago that I was starting to put
• 11:09
  things up on our YouTube channel, and so now we're
• 11:12
  starting to get more episodes from our back catalog, slowly
• 11:16
  but surely getting uploaded roughly 3A day or so.
• 11:20
  Are going up into our YouTube channel.
• 11:22
  You can find a link to our YouTube channel on our website
• 11:25
  idacpodcast.com in the upper right.
• 11:28
  Got a little logo for YouTube. You click that.
• 11:29
  That'll take us straight to our videos.
• 11:31
  If you just type in IDAC dot live into your browser for the
• 11:35
  address, that'll take you to our live episodes that we started
• 11:39
  and kind of trailed off and never came back to.
• 11:42
  But that'll still take you to the YouTube channel that has all
• 11:45
  of our podcast episodes, so. The plan going forward is
• 11:48
  roughly 3A day or so to get them until we get caught up.
• 11:52
  And then going forward we'll have episodes up on YouTube as
• 11:55
  well. So I know some people like to
• 11:57
  watch their audio podcasts, which feels weird to say, but
• 12:00
  here we are what I've seen. So I I kind of feel like YouTube
• 12:06
  is also a streaming service for music and podcasts now where
• 12:11
  I'll see people at the gym who just basically stream YouTube
• 12:17
  and they can lock their phone or whatever.
• 12:19
  I think you have to have the premium YouTube that you can
• 12:22
  lock your phone and not going to get hit with ads, but you know
• 12:26
  what's the premium YouTube like 10 bucks a month.
• 12:29
  I think that's. 10 bucks a month, no ads, and you get
• 12:32
  YouTube Music. Kind of bumbled in with it.
• 12:34
  So I've been thinking about doing it honestly.
• 12:37
  Because you know, I I watch YouTube enough that I, you know,
• 12:40
  watching sitting through the ads is just not worth it.
• 12:45
  Yeah, I'm very annoying for almost a year now and it's it's
• 12:48
  worth it for me because I spend so much time on YouTube just
• 12:50
  watching stuff. Yeah, well, I'm hoping that in
• 12:54
  the future. So this is my my my plea to
• 12:58
  vendors is to put more webinars and videos that you have on your
• 13:04
  website, put them on your YouTube channel.
• 13:06
  You know, people would like to be able to sit at their home TV
• 13:10
  and just watch identity management content.
• 13:14
  You know, it's like in your free time, the ability to educate
• 13:17
  yourself. And I think you have to make it
• 13:19
  more entertaining than just webinars.
• 13:21
  And some organizations like Octa does a really good job with
• 13:25
  their YouTube channel. Other software vendors are way
• 13:30
  behind. But I think that I think it's a
• 13:33
  valuable way to get the content out there especially and you
• 13:36
  have to follow and you don't have to follow.
• 13:38
  But I think where you can really benefit is like the same model
• 13:42
  that we do which is educate and entertain 1st and then talk
• 13:48
  about your product, you know as secondary or tertiary, right.
• 13:51
  It's not the main driver of all your content.
• 13:55
  If all your content is for is like buy our product, people
• 13:59
  aren't going to be that interested.
• 14:02
  Yeah, I mean there's a time and place for information versus
• 14:06
  entertain it. It's kind of like the old thing.
• 14:07
  I was like, I just want a recipe saying I don't need to hear like
• 14:09
  the 45 minute intro about. Someone's grandma and whatever,
• 14:13
  like, just. I'm just looking for the recipe,
• 14:15
  man. Just give it, Give it to me.
• 14:16
  Give me the recipe. But there's some good channels
• 14:18
  out there, like IBM Technology is a good YouTube channel.
• 14:21
  They do like a lot of those whiteboard explainer videos
• 14:24
  where they're like writing on the screen and kind of
• 14:26
  explaining different concepts. And they do a good job with it.
• 14:30
  Obviously everyone knows who IBM is, but yeah, I heard today on
• 14:37
  podcast. So I don't know if you've seen
• 14:39
  that commercial where the guys like, oh, there's a podcast that
• 14:42
  talks about that, podcast that talks about that.
• 14:44
  But there's on GTA, which is a video game, Grand Theft Auto.
• 14:51
  I'm not sure if you've ever heard of it, but I guess there's
• 14:56
  a you can you get into the cars now, you can put on the radio
• 15:00
  and listen to different types of stations.
• 15:02
  One of the stations is like a Joe Rogan loop.
• 15:05
  He just plays Joe Rogan episodes over like there's like 2 Joe.
• 15:09
  Rogan Yeah, What it is, it's, it's a station.
• 15:13
  I don't remember the name of the station, but they have like
• 15:16
  different characters on there. And one of them is like this guy
• 15:18
  Laszlo, who's been in GTA radio for, I don't know, years.
• 15:23
  Like he's at least GTA45 maybe since then.
• 15:28
  So he's kind of been a running thing.
• 15:29
  And they have parodies of, yeah, the different.
• 15:33
  Shows of the current day, like when they're actually putting
• 15:36
  them out there in the game, it's really funny.
• 15:39
  They're really good. Yeah, well, I mean, people spend
• 15:42
  a lot of time on those games, right?
• 15:45
  And they're they're very social. I I think what they're talking
• 15:48
  about with GTA is like, it's a chance to, you know, go and do
• 15:53
  all the things you can't do, you know, the behaviors you can't do
• 15:57
  in normal life. Yeah, you won't get into what
• 16:02
  those are, but they're. There's a lot of options for
• 16:05
  Nerdy Wells. It's a good, it's a good game.
• 16:10
  I mean, I've played it, I've beat it, you know, gone to the
• 16:12
  story at least, and the characters are super memorable.
• 16:15
  And Trevor is hilarious. If you have ever watched The
• 16:19
  Walking Dead, he's actually in The Walking Dead.
• 16:22
  Not Trevor like the GTA character, but the actor who
• 16:26
  basically does the voice acting for that.
• 16:28
  So there's definitely an art form.
• 16:31
  You know, to video games, when they kind of take it to that
• 16:33
  level where you got voice acting and the story and stuff like
• 16:35
  that, yeah, yeah, very cool. So the other news is like the
• 16:41
  day this episode drops is the beginning of Octus Octane
• 16:48
  Conference. I'll be there.
• 16:51
  So I thought I'd go over a few of the sessions that I'm excited
• 16:55
  about or kind of like how I'm building my agenda for which
• 16:59
  sessions I'm going to attend. And as always, they have like
• 17:02
  awesome keynotes at Octa's conference.
• 17:05
  So definitely tried to hit all the keynotes, anything with a I
• 17:12
  in the title, and there are a lot of things with a I in the
• 17:14
  title. One thing that really jumped out
• 17:17
  at me on Wednesday was about Ikea's global deployment
• 17:21
  journey. And there's a person on you, I'm
• 17:29
  sorry, on LinkedIn, Martin Sandron, who is the product
• 17:32
  leader I was. Just going to say that Martin's
• 17:34
  been posting some good stuff. He's been a good supporter of
• 17:36
  us. Appreciate that.
• 17:37
  Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Martin.
• 17:39
  But I I mean you know, I'm not sure what his what product
• 17:43
  leader means relative to this Octave deployment, but really
• 17:47
  like to hear how they did that. You know another thing that I've
• 17:52
  noticed that popped up a few times in the agenda and I've
• 17:55
  been hearing more and more about it is just the idea about backup
• 17:59
  and resilience of your IDP or specifically in the in the case
• 18:03
  of Octane around Octa. So there's some sessions on
• 18:07
  that. We're doing a a party bus they
• 18:12
  they're calling it the party bus.
• 18:13
  I think it's a lot tamer than the name implies.
• 18:17
  It's kind of like we're going to go see some of San Francisco.
• 18:20
  And for folks who are, you know, coming to San Francisco maybe
• 18:24
  for the first time, you know, it's kind of most people won't
• 18:31
  go out and explore San Francisco on their own, especially if
• 18:33
  you're coming in for the conference and leaving.
• 18:35
  The idea of this bus is we're going to stop at a few places,
• 18:39
  couple of tourist destinations and let you see, you know,
• 18:42
  really one of the most beautiful cities in the country.
• 18:46
  So I think you know if you haven't registered for that
• 18:50
  event and you're interested, check out my LinkedIn feed.
• 18:54
  We'll also put it in the show notes, the, the registration
• 18:58
  link. But I think it's going to be a
• 19:01
  really good time, an opportunity to network as well as you know.
• 19:06
  And so if you this is for obviously people who are in San
• 19:08
  Francisco at the conference, it's going to be Wednesday
• 19:11
  night, I think it's like 8:00. We're going to meet, have hors,
• 19:14
  d'oeuvres and beverages, and then get on the bus and go to a
• 19:19
  couple of tourist destinations and maybe like a rooftop bar,
• 19:23
  which would be really cool to have.
• 19:25
  Kind of like that scenic view of San Francisco, OKA.
• 19:29
  Couple more sessions. There's one called double vision
• 19:35
  which is about a deep look into the partnership between log and
• 19:44
  Gov and Octa and overall like government and public sector
• 19:49
  seems to be have its own track in octane.
• 19:52
  And I'm look really excited because like a lot of like state
• 19:55
  level government like Missouri and Delaware and then of course
• 20:00
  that login.gov and and how it works with Octa.
• 20:03
  I'm really interested to learn about that because that's, you
• 20:07
  know, those deployments are generally very big and we all
• 20:10
  know like how big login.gov is, so.
• 20:14
  Interested in those in that session and then the Missouri
• 20:18
  and Delaware one as well as sessions on pass keys.
• 20:22
  There's at least one on pass keys and you know pretty much
• 20:27
  anything. Oh, I did want to register one
• 20:31
  complaint would be it wouldn't be me if I didn't register at
• 20:37
  least one complaint. But the the workforce cloud road
• 20:41
  map and the customer cloud road map, they run at the same time,
• 20:45
  which is Thursday at 1:15. They're not repeated as far as I
• 20:48
  could tell. They only happen once and
• 20:51
  they're at the same time in different rooms.
• 20:53
  So, like, I want to see both roadmaps and you know, I feel
• 20:57
  like that's weird. Yeah, isn't that kind of weird?
• 21:00
  So that's my one and only complaint.
• 21:02
  But, you know, anything to do with customer.
• 21:06
  I am all serious stuff. I mean it's really interesting
• 21:12
  time in in all that so interested to hit as many
• 21:18
  sessions as possible. Do the other underlying thing
• 21:22
  that I'm going to be doing there is going to bring my iPhone,
• 21:26
  turn on my video camera, get a lot of video and then especially
• 21:31
  I think I'm going to do this in the vendor hall.
• 21:34
  But also hallway conversations is try to interview people.
• 21:38
  Just, you know what are you here for you know what do you what's
• 21:43
  your best experience. I haven't really figured out
• 21:45
  exactly what the interview will be made-up of.
• 21:49
  But just hoping to spend 5 to 10 minutes with people who are
• 21:52
  there and then capture a bunch of video.
• 21:55
  And then you know Jeff, you and I all have to go to work on
• 21:59
  trying to figure out like how much of this can we turn into a
• 22:02
  YouTube video. But I think that'll be, you
• 22:05
  know, for those especially who couldn't attend, you know, give
• 22:09
  them a little taste of what it was like to be there.
• 22:13
  Yeah, Octane's not a small conference.
• 22:14
  The first one I went to was last year and it's it's big.
• 22:18
  It's a lot of people that are there.
• 22:19
  I think like what, 1002 thousand, something like that.
• 22:22
  I mean they take over basically the Moscone Center for it, at
• 22:26
  least the West portion of it. So people aren't familiar with
• 22:28
  that. It's pretty much the the main
• 22:30
  Convention Center in the San Francisco area.
• 22:32
  But yeah, it's a big conference. It's it was cool.
• 22:35
  I I dug it. What was last year's
• 22:37
  celebrities? It was Serena Williams, Serena
• 22:42
  Williams and NJ. Johnson Yeah, which was a lot of
• 22:46
  fun. So I'm kind of jealous because I
• 22:48
  won't be there. I will be at a competing
• 22:50
  conference across the US I'll be in DC while you're in San
• 22:54
  Francisco. That's Identity Week America.
• 22:57
  So I'm going to be hosting a panel, and my working title
• 23:01
  right now for it is Modern Authentication Definitions
• 23:05
  Deployments in the Future. Vision.
• 23:07
  But I have just a killer lineup of panelists, So I've got Ian
• 23:10
  Glazer, got Julie Madhu, Sudanan, hopefully I pronounced
• 23:15
  that right. She's works for LinkedIn, so
• 23:17
  she's going to hopefully bring some some stories about how
• 23:20
  they're leveraging modern authentication in the LinkedIn
• 23:23
  environment. We got Tim Meyeroff from IRSID
• 23:26
  Systems. Jeff Rich, who has been on this
• 23:29
  show before. He's the executive director of
• 23:31
  the Identity to Find Security Alliance.
• 23:34
  We got Megan Shamus from Fido Alliance.
• 23:37
  She's the Director of marketing. She's also on the show.
• 23:40
  She was with us for a few minutes there at Identifiers
• 23:42
  when we were recording outside of the the keynote, sort of like
• 23:46
  the opening night stuff like that.
• 23:48
  And we're just going to get into it.
• 23:50
  Modern authentication, you know, what is it?
• 23:52
  How do we define it? How are people in the real world
• 23:55
  using this? And what are some of the
• 23:57
  implications or things that we need to think about from a
• 23:59
  consideration standpoint to getting them, getting those
• 24:02
  sorts of things deployed? And then where do we go from
• 24:05
  here today? It's modern.
• 24:07
  At some point modern authentication is gonna be
• 24:10
  considered legacy authentication.
• 24:12
  Where do things go here in the future?
• 24:13
  Obviously there's a lot of support behind pass keys.
• 24:16
  Obviously there's biometrics that are gonna become probably
• 24:19
  more important. How are we going to
• 24:22
  authenticate? I don't know.
• 24:24
  This synthetic person I think is what we're calling it AI or
• 24:28
  whatever the right term is, right.
• 24:30
  Non humans, those sorts of things so.
• 24:33
  It'll be interesting. I'll be out there.
• 24:35
  I know I'm going to record at least one episode of a podcast
• 24:38
  with Ian. At least that's the plan.
• 24:40
  And Steve Hutchison Hutch for people who are familiar with
• 24:43
  him. Ian was kind enough to make the
• 24:45
  introduction and both gentlemen agreed to to be on the show.
• 24:50
  So we'll do something while while we're out there.
• 24:52
  And I'm hopeful that I'll get some others, like maybe Jeff
• 24:54
  from IDSA trying to get Julie, maybe from LinkedIn.
• 24:58
  We'll see if that works out. But yeah, that'll be, that'll be
• 25:02
  a good time. So hosting the panel, actually
• 25:04
  it's the first time I've done that, hosting a panel at a
• 25:07
  conference. I've been a member of a panel,
• 25:10
  but this will be the first time being the sort of the emcee of
• 25:12
  it and then kind of walking around.
• 25:14
  So I've never been to Identity Week America, but I'm looking
• 25:17
  forward to it seems to be a lot of good content there.
• 25:19
  And when I'm not on the stage, I'll probably be in a side room
• 25:22
  somewhere recording something or just walking the halls and kind
• 25:26
  of taking it all in. So kind of exciting, what are
• 25:29
  the chances that you're going to get a a recording of that panel?
• 25:33
  Because, I mean, that's a lot of power players all at once.
• 25:37
  I don't know. I mean, I'll try for it and
• 25:39
  we'll see. We'll see.
• 25:42
  No promises. It's, you know, we can kick down
• 25:46
  a fourth wall. Sometimes conferences like to
• 25:48
  keep sort of the content to themselves.
• 25:50
  I'll see what I can do to see if there's able to get a recording.
• 25:52
  But yeah, no, no promises on that one.
• 25:55
  Either you have to be there or not.
• 25:57
  And that's why we have discount codes, right.
• 25:58
  So we probably haven't, we should probably talk about
• 26:00
  discount because we have because there's one for Octane, there's
• 26:02
  one for Identity Week. America, if you're listening to
• 26:04
  this on October 2nd, you better hurry because Octane has started
• 26:08
  and identity work, Identity Week starts I think on the third.
• 26:13
  Either way we've got you covered.
• 26:14
  We'll have we can start showing out so these as well, but we've
• 26:17
  got so for Identity week America we have Ida C30 that gets you
• 26:23
  30% off the conference pass. For Identity Week America also
• 26:26
  works for Identity Week Asia, which is happening I think in
• 26:28
  November of this year. And then for the Octane one,
• 26:31
  we've got a code, it's OKTNIDA C30 that also gets you 30% off.
• 26:38
  So kind of a last chance to use those.
• 26:42
  If you haven't registered. By the time you're listen to
• 26:44
  this, going to assume you're probably not going to make it,
• 26:46
  but maybe maybe you're local or maybe you're like, oh shoot, let
• 26:48
  me hop on a plane to either DC or San Francisco and go check
• 26:52
  these things out. Yeah.
• 26:54
  And beyond that, we're also going to be at the Authenticate
• 26:57
  conference, which will be two weeks from today when this
• 27:01
  drops. And we have a discount code for
• 27:05
  that one as well. Jeff, do you have that on the
• 27:08
  tip of your tongue? Yeah, I D AC15 podcasts get you
• 27:13
  15% off, get you 15% off. That's the best discount code
• 27:18
  available as well as it gives you the opportunity to be
• 27:23
  entered into a drawing for a gift bag which we don't know
• 27:27
  what will be in the gift bag Schwag.
• 27:30
  I'm assuming stickers will be in there, so everybody who attends
• 27:34
  the conference will get a sticker and I will also have
• 27:38
  stickers on hand at Octane. I know I mailed you a bunch of
• 27:42
  stickers. Do you still have some left?
• 27:45
  I do have a few. I was at a conference last week,
• 27:48
  the Cybersecurity Midwest Summit in.
• 27:50
  Cincinnati area empty. I bought a bunch there, which is
• 27:53
  a lot of fun. So I'm imagining you as like the
• 27:55
  sticker guru. You're going to have like a
• 27:57
  bandolier, but just like stickers.
• 28:00
  I didn't tell you this, but I got stopped twice by TSA because
• 28:06
  of the stickers. For some reason.
• 28:08
  They show it up as like a gel or a liquid.
• 28:11
  And yeah, going into out of Asheville and then out of
• 28:17
  Cincinnati. I got stopped both times I buy
• 28:20
  TSA and both times it was because of the stickers.
• 28:24
  So I don't know. You know, Speaking of stickers,
• 28:27
  someone hit me up on LinkedIn and said we should, we should
• 28:30
  have merch. Merch.
• 28:33
  Yeah, yeah, we should, we should have merch.
• 28:36
  Well, you you kind of went down that road.
• 28:38
  But it I did. But it's like, really worth
• 28:42
  like, hey, he wants to buy an IDAC tshirt for $35. $25 or $30?
• 28:48
  It's printed in the Fruit of a Loom tshirt.
• 28:52
  I think it was like gild in or something like that.
• 28:54
  It was a decent, you know, brand.
• 28:56
  But yeah, it's expensive to do merch both to set it up and for
• 29:00
  it to actually, you know by the time you know, all the costs for
• 29:03
  all the different vendors get factored into it.
• 29:06
  And even just if you know, I don't, I don't want to see as
• 29:08
  like a money making venture for us at all.
• 29:11
  We might sell, you know, seven or something like that.
• 29:15
  Well, you know if you sold. 700, You probably make like 1000
• 29:18
  bucks. I mean, people who sold that
• 29:21
  merch. Yeah, I mean people who sold.
• 29:24
  The vast majority of that merch sale goes to the vendors and
• 29:28
  stuff like that. We would get very little if any,
• 29:30
  unless we charge an exorbitant amount, which just, I don't
• 29:33
  know, just feels weird. So that's why I haven't really
• 29:34
  kind of pursued it past that. I'd like to have IDC T-shirts
• 29:39
  and put them in those guns and like, shoot them into the
• 29:41
  audience at a conference, see if people want.
• 29:44
  It sounds to me like it'd be funny if people like.
• 29:48
  They don't want it. Shoot them with them, Yeah, they
• 29:50
  don't want it. They just don't want to be hit
• 29:52
  by your your tshirt launches. Right.
• 29:55
  Well, go off and buy a You go buy a tshirt gun.
• 29:58
  I'll get a couple tshirts, all right.
• 30:03
  So that's Identity Week, America.
• 30:05
  That's what I'll be doing. You sent me an article about
• 30:09
  fragmented identity data. It was written by the CEO of
• 30:13
  Andy Kite and I hope I pronounced this correctly, but
• 30:15
  last or Lassie Anderson last. And we did have Brad Lassie
• 30:20
  Anderson and we did have Brad Toomey on the show from Andy
• 30:24
  Kite back on episode #168, way back at last year's Gardner.
• 30:30
  What are your thoughts on this article?
• 30:31
  I guess can you kind of you know preface it or kind of summarize
• 30:35
  it here and we can kind of talk through it.
• 30:38
  Yeah. So First off Lasse is kind of
• 30:40
  like a legend in our spaces in my opinion anyway, he was like
• 30:45
  cofounder of Ford Rock and he's kind of like you know the the
• 30:51
  technical side of of that really understood the platform
• 30:56
  etcetera. And you know I mean look at like
• 30:58
  the impact that Ford Rock has had in our industry.
• 31:01
  So you know, very important person in the industry, he
• 31:05
  talked a lot about I think with this theme which we've been
• 31:09
  calling Authorization 2.0, which is really about like expanding
• 31:15
  the plane of data at the enterprise level that can be
• 31:19
  used for authorization. So you know, to me that looks
• 31:24
  like in the past we've kind of said all right here, here's the
• 31:27
  data that you can use for authorization.
• 31:30
  We put it into the authentication store.
• 31:33
  Someone authenticates, you pull the data from that, you know,
• 31:36
  with the acceptance of the login and then they can go and assert
• 31:41
  those authorizations. But I think this authorization
• 31:46
  2.0 is to say, well, now there's information out in these other
• 31:51
  systems in the organization that we can crunch that data to
• 31:55
  determine what authorization someone has.
• 31:57
  So my favorite example has been you're logging in and then
• 32:02
  there's, you know, a system that is for high net worth
• 32:07
  individuals. High net worth individual might
• 32:10
  mean you have $1,000,000 in account balances.
• 32:15
  So you could imagine a scenario where there's a system that says
• 32:20
  okay, here's your summarized account balance or something
• 32:23
  like that. Or there's some kind of
• 32:25
  crunching of the data that goes to these different systems and
• 32:28
  figure it out, do you qualify or not for that authorization.
• 32:33
  So I I mean, I think to me that's like pretty
• 32:36
  groundbreaking. But at the same time I do have a
• 32:39
  concern and I don't think any I've heard anybody else voice
• 32:43
  this concern. But my concern is that you know
• 32:47
  if the enterprise can be complex and if somebody isn't kind of
• 32:51
  coordinating all that and understanding that hey if you go
• 32:55
  and change that business system that comes up with that account
• 33:00
  balance to use that example that's going to affect how
• 33:04
  people authenticate and or how people get authorization to this
• 33:09
  other downstream system. So the the bigger that blast
• 33:13
  radius is in terms of where you're going into all these
• 33:16
  business systems and and finding data to build your
• 33:20
  authorization. You just have to make sure that
• 33:23
  you don't start making changes in the background that could
• 33:26
  affect that process because you end up potentially breaking very
• 33:32
  important business processes, maybe mission critical business
• 33:36
  processes. And so that's my concern with
• 33:39
  increasing that blast radius of what is potential authorization
• 33:44
  data. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense,
• 33:49
  right? We've got all this data that
• 33:50
  we're collecting and. I think historically we've had
• 33:55
  data silos and don't touch my data.
• 33:58
  You can't use it, right? Yes.
• 34:00
  Yeah, those sorts of things. And now that you know if you're
• 34:04
  going to become more data-driven from organization, that data is
• 34:07
  going to be accessible in some way.
• 34:08
  Now I don't think I'm advocating for, I know I'm not advocating
• 34:12
  for things like, hey, let's not put Social Security number into
• 34:15
  our IGA platform. That is a roll of hurt that
• 34:17
  nobody wants, right. And you don't need it for
• 34:19
  anything. There should be other ways to
• 34:20
  kind of solve that or? Pay information right or things
• 34:23
  like that that are kind of sensitive within the org itself.
• 34:27
  But taking these bits of data and then making them available
• 34:32
  to do more data-driven activities like authorization or
• 34:35
  authentication or even just driving you know access you know
• 34:39
  permissioning to different to apps or even you know physical
• 34:43
  things in the world. Hey, because I am in Chicago
• 34:46
  today. I get access to the Chicago
• 34:48
  office, right? Or whatever that may be, even
• 34:50
  though maybe I'm. My Home Office is Charlotte,
• 34:52
  right, or whatever that might look like.
• 34:54
  So I think there's a lot of opportunity.
• 34:57
  I don't feel like this is a new concept, but I think we're
• 35:00
  getting to the point where the systems are now recognizing that
• 35:06
  and the vendors are recognizing that.
• 35:07
  And the most importantly, I think the business is starting
• 35:10
  to recognize that of having that data be available to make, you
• 35:15
  know, better decisions. Dr. Automation kind of things
• 35:19
  like that. Yeah.
• 35:21
  I mean it's a great point. And the more interconnected, the
• 35:25
  more dependent systems become one of their, the more important
• 35:30
  governance and you know, a good QA process that, you know,
• 35:36
  touches all these points and and make sure that we're not going
• 35:40
  to break things when we create these extra interdependencies.
• 35:44
  I think it's just mission critical.
• 35:49
  Yeah. I don't have anything else to
• 35:51
  add. That was good.
• 35:53
  It was a good article. I mean it, you know, it's
• 35:57
  important to think about things like that because these are the
• 35:59
  major trends that are afoot. They're they're happening, and
• 36:04
  we're all going to be dealing with them in one way or the
• 36:07
  other. Well, basically have the vendors
• 36:11
  play together because I think the article calls for and I'll
• 36:14
  have a link to this in our show notes, right.
• 36:15
  We can kind of go read it, but. This idea of interoperability
• 36:19
  between systems and specifically identity systems, I don't know
• 36:25
  if that's traditionally been a strong point of identity and
• 36:27
  access management and vendors playing together.
• 36:29
  Usually you'll get something like an alliance where you have
• 36:32
  you know two or three vendors kind of working together.
• 36:35
  You know the together is better sort of story.
• 36:39
  Now you've got a little bit more of a converged approach seems to
• 36:42
  be happening more with vendors consolidating capabilities under
• 36:45
  like a certain platform. It'll be interesting to see how
• 36:49
  and if the actual identity technology vendors out there
• 36:52
  embrace this and start to, you know, adopt A more open stance,
• 36:58
  maybe making API's more available for data, you know,
• 37:00
  where necessary and having more of that.
• 37:03
  I don't want to say plug and play, but you know, as close to
• 37:07
  that as possible where you have like a Lego brick sort of
• 37:09
  environment where you know, here's here's a brick that does
• 37:12
  this thing and then you know you can easily attach it to this
• 37:15
  other brick. That does this thing and the
• 37:18
  data kind of flow between and. It doesn't become a, you know, a
• 37:23
  secret sauce for a vendor, for example.
• 37:26
  Yeah, those are great points. You know, I think the other
• 37:29
  thing back to kind of the change control, it's like, you know,
• 37:33
  sometimes from mine goes back to when you're you had developers
• 37:37
  on staff and they build applications and you'd be
• 37:40
  reaching it into the back end to get some of this data.
• 37:43
  Well, now it's probably APIs and a lot of cloud services.
• 37:49
  Again, you're kind of, you know, if you don't have very mature
• 37:53
  cloud services where they have a mature approach to, you know,
• 37:58
  iterating their APIs to say OK, API version one, API version
• 38:02
  1.2, API version 1.3, but that those APIs don't just all of a
• 38:08
  sudden disappear. So if you're paying attention,
• 38:12
  you'll realize that there's a deprecation date for the API,
• 38:16
  and when that API becomes no longer available, that date is
• 38:19
  going to be no longer available. But you're you're signing up for
• 38:22
  that level of discipline when you start reaching out to
• 38:26
  additional systems. So you know that as I was
• 38:30
  reading that article, I thought, yes, like I'm I'm all on board
• 38:34
  with this with, you know, being able to make decisions with this
• 38:38
  data. It just to me becomes like a
• 38:43
  stronger requirement around governance and change control
• 38:48
  discipline. And I'd love to have Lassie come
• 38:51
  on the show and, you know, kind of talk about this topic or you
• 38:55
  know, other topics in addition. So, Lassie, if you're listening,
• 38:59
  reach out, man. Yeah, What else we got?
• 39:07
  I don't know. Are we going to end on a later
• 39:09
  note? I didn't come up with anything
• 39:12
  for today so be totally spur of the moment and I don't think and
• 39:15
  it's all predictions are my Forte anymore.
• 39:19
  Do you have something top of mind for for a lighter note?
• 39:23
  Okay yeah. So what is your ideal vacation?
• 39:31
  Like physical location like where I want to go or how I
• 39:36
  spend it. Give me some more details here
• 39:38
  to work with Okay. So if I was to give you one week
• 39:44
  beginning of January and just say or say at the end of
• 39:48
  January, like Jeff, you have to take this week off.
• 39:51
  And I'm not going to say that all expenses paid like you can
• 39:57
  pay for it yourself. You can go to the beach, you can
• 40:02
  go international or domestic, you can go to the mountains, you
• 40:06
  could do a staycation and like catch up on things.
• 40:09
  What? What is it?
• 40:11
  And maybe that lowers your stress level.
• 40:15
  What would you do with your week?
• 40:18
  Wow, I have no idea. I feel like I would want to go
• 40:24
  somewhere that I haven't been to.
• 40:25
  I've always wanted to go, for example for like Tokyo, but I
• 40:30
  don't think a week is long enough to do that.
• 40:32
  I think I'd want to spend more time there.
• 40:34
  Maybe something like? Norway or Sweden or something
• 40:37
  like that would be very cool as well.
• 40:40
  But the realist to me is probably I'll probably just stay
• 40:42
  at home, catch up on sleep and play with my dogs and watch TV
• 40:49
  and and eat more like crap than I usually do.
• 40:53
  So if there's two weeks, what would you do to like?
• 40:55
  Well, actually. Two weeks.
• 40:56
  I might go somewhere kind of exotic, you know, I guess
• 40:59
  compared to domestic US or something like that.
• 41:01
  But my favorite vacations are the one where I don't have a
• 41:05
  plan. It's just, hey, this is, we're
• 41:07
  in this location. We don't actually have to like,
• 41:11
  you know, be here by this o'clock and then over here at
• 41:13
  this time and then over there at that time.
• 41:16
  I'm more of a casual kind of free spirit, especially on
• 41:18
  vacation. I do like the adventure
• 41:21
  vacations. I also like to sewing your butt
• 41:23
  vacations. I tend to like warm weather over
• 41:28
  cold weather. So I think I would like to to
• 41:33
  go, you know, it's it's interesting now that I said that
• 41:37
  I say that one thing that you mentioned was Scandinavia.
• 41:41
  I've always wanted to check out those cultures, but I would want
• 41:44
  to go in the summer as I think like they do like these really
• 41:48
  weird parties in some of the big cities where like everybody goes
• 41:51
  down the street and they have like these big dance parties.
• 41:55
  So I saw this, this video and this one of, like my rabbit
• 41:58
  holes. And the YouTube world was like,
• 42:01
  I just watch these documentaries like it'll suggest a
• 42:04
  documentary. It's like, Oh yeah, I want to
• 42:06
  learn that or find out about that.
• 42:08
  So one was about these these parties that they have in, I
• 42:13
  don't know, like Helsinki or something, right.
• 42:16
  But all the people were headphones and they had like
• 42:21
  different D JS. So you know you, you could
• 42:25
  switch to channel 1, two or three and based on the one that
• 42:29
  you selected, your headphones would turn like blue, yellow or
• 42:33
  green. So people would know what you're
• 42:34
  listening to. And the DJs would be set up with
• 42:38
  the the that color stage and everything.
• 42:40
  And like people would like migrate to other people were
• 42:44
  listening to the same kind of music and like dance together
• 42:46
  and stuff. And it's like that.
• 42:49
  We don't have anything like that in the USI, at least not that
• 42:51
  I'm aware of. Maybe there's like great parties
• 42:54
  that do that. We do have that.
• 42:57
  And I just discovered this just a few weeks ago, I think it was
• 42:59
  in New York City for something, and somebody mentioned it and I
• 43:02
  guess it's called like a silent disco or other things.
• 43:04
  But the idea is everybody's wearing headphones.
• 43:08
  And yeah, it's, you know, you're hearing music, but it sound, it
• 43:12
  sounds really odd to me that you'd be like a bunch of people
• 43:15
  in a room or a hall or whatever it might be.
• 43:17
  And everybody's got headphones on and, you know, I'm assuming
• 43:21
  they're dancing and doing whatever, but if you don't have
• 43:23
  headphones on, it's probably the weirdest thing.
• 43:25
  To just watch a bunch of people doing this.
• 43:30
  I had never heard of it until a couple weeks ago.
• 43:32
  So I'm but it's definitely here in the US somewhere, but I guess
• 43:35
  not maybe in the circles that I run, not in our, you know,
• 43:39
  middle-aged identity at the center circles.
• 43:43
  But yeah, watching this video, it's kind of weird.
• 43:46
  It's like all these people in the street and it's like pretty
• 43:48
  quiet, but they're all like dancing.
• 43:50
  And you know, I don't know to me that seemed like it would be
• 43:54
  kind of fun to experience not like something I want to do all
• 43:57
  the time, but you know some cool experiences like that.
• 44:00
  Plus, I think this countries are, you know, they have a lot
• 44:03
  of beautiful aspects. There's so much beauty in this
• 44:05
  world to go and explore and and to do those things.
• 44:09
  So if I had two weeks, I guess I would want to go and do some of
• 44:12
  that. But I will say travels like Uber
• 44:15
  expensive. I was like oh next year maybe
• 44:18
  I'll make a trip to somewhere in Europe and started looking at
• 44:21
  the price of flights and it was like $2000 for you know coach
• 44:26
  class which is pretty you know, I mean I don't mind flying coach
• 44:31
  but it's it used to be like a coach that were flight from yeah
• 44:36
  yeah it it is a lot. But in the summer, if you want
• 44:39
  to go in like the prime time, which is when I would want to
• 44:43
  go. Well, it sounds like you're
• 44:47
  already planning on getting your Delta status taken care of
• 44:50
  flights like that. Yeah.
• 44:52
  Well, I mean you spend just as money for it's just as much
• 44:55
  money for, you know, well, I guess the the credit card is
• 44:59
  like 506 hundred a year, but yeah.
• 45:03
  Anyway, All right, let's go ahead and wrap it up.
• 45:06
  For this week, we covered a lot of ground.
• 45:07
  I have no idea when I'm going to call this episode because, hey,
• 45:11
  you know, I was thinking about the garbage plate the other day.
• 45:14
  We call it the garbage plate. Yeah, maybe we'll go with that.
• 45:19
  All right, well, let's do it. We're on the web,
• 45:22
  idacpodcast.com. We're on Twitter or X for now,
• 45:26
  until they start charging as soon as they charge.
• 45:27
  I'm out, man. Sorry, man, I'm not paying for
• 45:29
  Twitter. But we're there now at IDAC
• 45:32
  podcasts. We're on YouTube.
• 45:34
  Check that link out. Idac dot live Mastodon at
• 45:38
  idcpodcast at infosych dot exchange.
• 45:41
  You and I are LinkedIn. Get a lot of nice messages
• 45:44
  recently from folks who've been listening, which is very cool.
• 45:46
  People are still discovering us. So everybody who helps get the
• 45:50
  word out, you know, puts a sticker on something.
• 45:53
  All that stuff's greatly appreciated.
• 45:54
  That's really the kind of best way you can help Jim and I is,
• 45:56
  you know, keep help us keep doing this by having other
• 45:59
  people listen. So subscribing and and liking
• 46:03
  and thumbs upping and all that good stuff is the best way you
• 46:06
  can help us. So we appreciate that, Jim.
• 46:09
  Anything else? Or should we wrap it up?
• 46:11
  Super secret guest for next week?
• 46:14
  We're going to be recording that episode here in a few minutes
• 46:16
  and looking forward to that. Yeah, it's got.
• 46:20
  It'll be next week's episode. Good teaser.
• 46:23
  All right. Thanks everybody for listening.
• 46:25
  We'll talk with everyone in the next one.