Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous 20-year-old snatched at bus stop on way home from work, bound, tortured, raped & murdered. UNSOLVED! WHO MURDERED EVE WILKOWITZ?

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Gorgeous 20-year-old snatched at bus stop on way home from work, bound, tortured, raped & murdered. UNSOLVED! WHO MURDERED EVE WILKOWITZ? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: March twenty five, a woman notices a barefoot figure lying
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: on a neighbor's lawn. Just a few doors down. That
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: figure a beautiful young woman, Eve Wilkowitz, last seen boarding
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a late night train home from work. To this day,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the mystery surrounding Eve Wilkowitz goes on, I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: This is crime Stories, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: was very sweet. She loved twice as twice is with
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: her passion. She loved to Eve was the older one,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: and the two sisters were living in Oakdale when they
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: endured the loss of their mother to breast cancer. Eve
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: later wanted some independence and moved out to live with
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: a boyfriend in Bay Shore. She was afraid of him.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: She felt something wasn't right. But Eve had started to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: find a life in Manhattan with a promising job at
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: McMillan Publishing. A young writer there took an interest in Eve,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and he was the one who dropped her at Penn
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  Speaker 1: Station for the last train to Bay Shore on that
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Friday night in Marchall the other thing I know she
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: got on a train from Penn Station. That we know
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: she was on the train. Eve Wilkewitz made a final
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: trip on the Long Island Railroad to Bay Shore. The
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: ride to our south Shore town should have taken less
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: than ninety minutes. You are hearing our friends at pix
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: eleven in New York, Mary Murphy, Eve Wilkewitz. All you
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: have to do is Google to pull up her gorgeous photo.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I'm may and see Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: you for being with us, with me an all star
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: panel starting with Newsday journalist Tony DeStefano, Cheryl a Point,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, the gene hunter John Cardillo, hosts America Talks
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: on Newsmax TV, former NYPD and renowned former Chief Medical
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Examiner doctor Chris Sperry. But joining me right now and
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: first is not only a colleague, but a very dear friend,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the father of slain jogger Carina Vatrono, Phil Vatronto. Her
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: father was dragged out of Corrina's general in order to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: give DNA to help catch her killer. And he did
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: it happily. He did it happily, And that is an
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: example of a crime victim, a loving parent trying to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: find whoever killed his daughter. But now the fight is on,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Phil the n Why is twenty year old even Wilto,
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  Speaker 1: it's so important to you. Well, I think this is
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  Speaker 1: all I have left to do, you know, like sort
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: of like John Walsh when Adam was killed. I tried
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to continue my life the way it was, Buddy, I
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: just couldn't. And I had heard this story. I had
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: got a little email from Rob Harmon out in California,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and he said it would be a good idea for
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: SS testing. And I decided that this is what's going
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: to happen. We're gonna get this tested and we're going
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to try to find to help, you know, find who
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  Speaker 1: killed Irene. Insist to Eve because it's forty forty years
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and that's a long time without any answers. And now
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: that wound never healed. Oh my stars still, Oh oh
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: how awful. I mean you My fiance was murtyred, his
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: killer was caught and prosecuted. You suffered both ways, for
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the many many months you did not know who Karina's
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  Speaker 1: a murderer was, and then the fight to get him convicted.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Newsday journalist Tony Stephan O'tony, let's
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  Speaker 1: start at the beginning with Eve Wilkowis. Who is she?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Tell me about her? Eve Wilcowits was a twenty year
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  Speaker 1: old woman originally from Long Island, and she was working
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  Speaker 1: in New York City at a publishing house. This is
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty. I were talking March of nineteen eighty
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  Speaker 1: when this all transpired. But she was living, you know,
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  Speaker 1: working in Manhattan and living back on Long Island, the
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  Speaker 1: town of Bay Shore, and doing a commuting life. She
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: had a boyfriend in the city and she was living
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  Speaker 1: in Bay Shore, and you know, she was a young
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  Speaker 1: girl starting off in a secretarial career. He's actually living
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: with an old boyfriend in a rather platonic situation. They
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  Speaker 1: were remained friends and they shared an apartment together. And
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  Speaker 1: she took the train home at Friday night and the boyfriend,
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  Speaker 1: the current boyfriend at the time, put her on the train,
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  Speaker 1: star off and that was it. She got on the train.
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  Speaker 1: People know she was on the train. She got off
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  Speaker 1: of Okay, right, let me just stop you right there,
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  Speaker 1: Tony to Stephanoe Newsday journalists. Are we sure she got
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  Speaker 1: on the train? Was she observed by anybody other than
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  Speaker 1: her boyfriend? Yes? The conductors, okay, the train conductor and
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  Speaker 1: they had her. They knew she was on They were
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  Speaker 1: remembered and recalled her being present on the train. You know,
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  Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, take a listen to our
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  Speaker 1: friends at p I X eleven, missus Mary Murphy. Three
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  Speaker 1: days after Eve Wilkewitz failed to come home from Manhattan,
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  Speaker 1: her body was discovered here at the Bay Shore, a
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  Speaker 1: Long Island railroad station, her original destination. As she was strangled,
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  Speaker 1: I know her hands would tie the rope burns, I'm
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: pretty sure around her hands the whole. The police told
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  Speaker 1: Eve's family she'd been held alive for three days before
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  Speaker 1: she was killed. Whoever they could find. They interviewed the
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  Speaker 1: boyfriend she was living with. Did the police tell you
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  Speaker 1: they ruled him out? Yeah? I believe so. The murder
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  Speaker 1: was long before the evolution of DNA testing and in
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the years that followed. Irene Brassner didn't talk much about
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  Speaker 1: the case to her daughter Dara and son Evan. My
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  Speaker 1: mother explained to me and that I was named after
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  Speaker 1: her Eve. It was definitely an honor to be named
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: after her. You're hearing our friend Mary Murphy, along with
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  Speaker 1: Irene Welcowitz Bossner and brother Evan Brossner. To doctor Chris Sperry,
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  Speaker 1: renowned former chief medical examiner, Doctor Sperry, how would the
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  Speaker 1: medical examiner no that she was held alive for three
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  Speaker 1: days before she was murdered. I think the medical examiner
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  Speaker 1: would be able to give an estimation like that based
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: upon probably the absence of decomposition, the absence of the
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  Speaker 1: changes that would be present if she had been dead
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  Speaker 1: all that period of time. If her body would appear
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  Speaker 1: to be very fresh and there was no decomposition, no
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  Speaker 1: blurting or gas accumulations, the things that occur after death
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  Speaker 1: or the passage of time, then I mean that's a
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  Speaker 1: very reasonable conclusion. Okay, Not to Chris Berry, and just
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  Speaker 1: break it down for me, just for a moment. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm going into this in depth because it matters. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm also doing this because I don't have her family
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  Speaker 1: member on because this would certainly cause them a lot
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  Speaker 1: of sorrow and agitation. But not to Chris Berry. Explain
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  Speaker 1: to me how you can tell a body is, as
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  Speaker 1: you say, fresh. I've never really heard it referred that way,
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  Speaker 1: but okay, go ahead, doctor Sperry, you're the m E
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  Speaker 1: just a JD. Tell me the ways you can look
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  Speaker 1: at a dead body and almost almost automatically know it
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  Speaker 1: is fresh. As opposed to having been lying out the
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  Speaker 1: elements for three days. Well, the first thing would be
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  Speaker 1: evaluation of the writer wardis, or the stiffness in the
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  Speaker 1: muscles and joints that develops after death. And this will
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: begin at room temperatures, usually about twenty to thirty minutes
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  Speaker 1: after someone dies, but then progress and by twelve hours
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  Speaker 1: the body will be very, very stiff, and over the
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  Speaker 1: next maybe twelve to twenty four hours, all that begins
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  Speaker 1: to pass, so that the stiffness is lost. And so
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  Speaker 1: it evaluating a body that has been found outside like this,
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  Speaker 1: The degree if any of stiffness the joints, the presence
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  Speaker 1: of rigor mortis, or the absence of it is to
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  Speaker 1: indicate that it is passing, gives at least a broad
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  Speaker 1: estimation of perhaps how long the body has been out.
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  Speaker 1: And one thing you said, which is very important, that is,
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  Speaker 1: if a deceased body is put out in the elements,
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  Speaker 1: then lots of other things start to happen. Insects will
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  Speaker 1: find the body and lay eggs. And because this is
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  Speaker 1: just this is part of nature. This is how the
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  Speaker 1: natural world takes care of any dead organism by other
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  Speaker 1: bugs of the creatures really make food out of it
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  Speaker 1: then breed. And if finding a body outside, say, for instance,
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  Speaker 1: if the person has been missing for three days but
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  Speaker 1: yet there's no evidence of any fly larvae on the body,
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  Speaker 1: any maggots, anything that indicates insect activity, then that means
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  Speaker 1: the body has been somewhere else and probably the person
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  Speaker 1: very likely could have been alive if there's no other
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  Speaker 1: changes like decomposition, bloating, gas accumulation, slippage of the skin,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and all of the things that occur again with the
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: passage of time. So if someone if a body is
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  Speaker 1: found and there's no evidence of any insect or animal predation,
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  Speaker 1: no maggots, there's no swelling, no bloating. All of these
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  Speaker 1: different factors work together to really give the ability to
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  Speaker 1: say that the person not only hasn't been outside for
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  Speaker 1: three or four days, but also wasn't probably alive. Time
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  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, hear of music through the walls
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: all the time, the Beatles, Elton, John Billy Joel. To
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: this day, when Irene bros Senor of East Meadow, here's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: a Billy Joel's song or a Beatles classic, She's flooded
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  Speaker 1: with emotions. Growing up in Oakdale, Irene and her older
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  Speaker 1: sister Eve were close. They remained that way until March
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  Speaker 1: twenty fifth, nineteen eighty. That's when twenty year old Eve
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  Speaker 1: Wilkowitz's lifeless body was found just blocks away from the
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  Speaker 1: Bay Shore train station. After thirty six years, her death
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  Speaker 1: still remains an unsolved mystery, even though she expressed concern
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  Speaker 1: to her family just a week before she was murdered.
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  Speaker 1: She's saying that I think someone's been following me. Eve
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  Speaker 1: commuted to and from Manhattan, where she worked as a
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  Speaker 1: secretary for a publishing house. At night, she routinely made
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  Speaker 1: the ten minute walk from the station to her Bay
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  Speaker 1: Shore apartment. Suffolk Police believe she was abducted while walking home.
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  Speaker 1: Detectives interviewed multiple suspects, but never made an arrest. Bush
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  Speaker 1: reports at the time suggested that Eve was most likely
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  Speaker 1: held captive for three days and sexually abused. You're hearing
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  Speaker 1: our friends at News twelve Long Island. That was Rich
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  Speaker 1: Babbie speaking on her way home from work. She was
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  Speaker 1: a commuter, gets off the train and has never seen
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  Speaker 1: alive again. Days later, her body is found. Now we
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  Speaker 1: are learning right now that it's believed her hands had
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  Speaker 1: been tied based on burnmarks on her hands and that
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  Speaker 1: she had been sex abused. What really happened to twenty
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  Speaker 1: year old Eve? Can you imagine the torture of being
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  Speaker 1: held alive for days on end only to be murdered,
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  Speaker 1: your body discarded. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. To John Cardillo, former
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: NYPD host America talks on Newsmax, John, again, thank you
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: for being with us. That sounds like a well thought
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  Speaker 1: out plan for some or would it be a crime
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  Speaker 1: of opportunity, someone possibly seeing her on the train and
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: suddenly deciding to attack her. But there is one clue
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  Speaker 1: that suggests this was long planned. Listen, I just figured
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  Speaker 1: any day now, you know, we'll hear closure, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: any days now. Therey six years later and still and
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: my dad never saw closure, and you know, he died
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  Speaker 1: in twenty ten, so he never guidances. It's that's one
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  Speaker 1: of the things that makes me most sad. You know
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  Speaker 1: so well. I know she was out with her friend
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  Speaker 1: in the city. She was working with McMillan Publishing in Manhattan,
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  Speaker 1: and she was having dinner with her friend and she
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  Speaker 1: was going to go on the train to come home.
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  Speaker 1: And never made it home. I don't if my dad
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  Speaker 1: heard it, but I know I did. I don't think
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  Speaker 1: I'm making enough. All these years, I still kind of
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  Speaker 1: remember saying I think someone's been following me. I think
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  Speaker 1: that was one of the last times I saw her.
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  Speaker 1: Is that less conversation saying that I think someone's been
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  Speaker 1: following me. Okay, that's not enough to just send chills
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  Speaker 1: down your spine. I don't know what is to think
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: someone's following you. That's our friend at Newsday speaking along
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  Speaker 1: with sister Irene. Back to you, John Cardillo, the fact
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  Speaker 1: that you believe someone is following you? Is that real?
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Or is that just the stuff that novels are made up? No,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I absolutely think the family they're gut instinct than yours.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Nancy is in the right place for your our listeners.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Viewers that don't live in the New York area aren't familiar.
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  Speaker 1: That's a crowded train. The Long Island Railroad line from
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Manhattan and Bay Shore is incredibly crowded. More importantly, a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: lot of police officers, a lot of firefighters live out there.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: They're on that train. So first instink thirty thousand foot view.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I agree. I think this was pre planned. You certainly
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't commit the abduction on the train. It sounds like
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: she was a rush hour commuter, but that particular line,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: those train cars are pretty crowded even eight thirty nine o'clock,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night. People have afterward dinners in the city,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So my initial instinct says she
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: was followed off the train and abducted somewhere in a
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: dark part of the Bay Shore station, or maybe walking
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: to a vehicle, walking to a cab stand, something like that.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: And that's somebody certainly who tracked her, who followed her,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: who planned this out, who knew her movements, who knew
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: her schedule. It's unlikely that on that crowded Long Island
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Railroad line the abduction would have happened on the train.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: So I think the family's instincts are dead on point
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: to Tony to Stephano News a journalist, Tony, she actually
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: told family members and maybe others she felt someone had
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: been following her, But did she ever give a description
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: or who she thought was following her. Well, she may
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: have given enough of a description because the police subsequent,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: many years subsequent, told me that there was a person
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that they focused on who they belief was following her,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: and they cleared that person from involvement, you know, through
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: DNA testing. So I think she did relate enough of
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that to allow law enforcement to focus in on somebody eventually.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But that person turned out to be non culpable, as
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: it were. So you know, this was not a freagment
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: of her imagination. I don't believe, Okay, So that was
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: not made up. She actually gave a description and told
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: several people she felt she was being followed. I'm just
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: only as she worked at macmillan Publishers, which is a
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: huge book publishing company headquarters in Manhattan. They have very
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: prominent imprints, sell books all around the world, award winning
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: books for children and adults in every category. I remember
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: growing up some of our textbooks or books that we
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: had at school where McMillan. That opens up a whole
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: plethora of potential suspects. If she worked in a skyscraper
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: in downtown Manhattan, was going in and out at lunch
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: for coffee breaks, who could have seen her or who
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: could have been watching her on her train. Now this
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: is someone we believe was following her, and that makes
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: a big difference joining me, the dad of jogger Karina Vatrono.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Feel Vatrono is with us, you know, Phil, there's a
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: big difference between someone that's been stalking you and someone
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: that just happens upon you at that moment, and it's
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: a crime of opportunity, Feel Vatronto. Yeah, And I'm not
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: sure that Koreans killer just happened to be there. I'm
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: not sure. We're never gonna know. We're never gonna know
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: for sure, but I kind of believe he was looking
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: for her, and because just to be at that exact
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: place at that exact time hidden so well. And I
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: think he was there the week prior when I was
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: on vacation. But you know, questions like that are never
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: going to be answered. Time stories with Nancy Grace so well,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I know she was out with her friend in the city.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: She was working in Smith Mellen Publishing in Manhattan, and
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: she was having dinner with a friend and she was
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: going to go on the train to come home and
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: never made it home. I don't know if my dad
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: heard it, but I know I did, and I don't
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: think I'm making enough all of these years, I still
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: kind of remember saying I think someone's been following me.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I think that was one of the last times I
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: saw her. Is that less conversation saying that I think
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: someone's been following me. You are hearing the sister Irene
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Wilkewitz brusson her speaking on a newsday interview. John Cardilo
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: hosts America Talks on Newsmax TV former NYPD. I always
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: say there's no coincidence in criminal law, and I find
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: it very difficult to believe that this young girl, Eve
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Wilco is just twenty years old, believe somebody's following her.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: She tells family members and maybe others about it, then
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: she ends up dead, having been kept alive for three days.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's the coincidence. John Cardilo, No, I
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: don't at all. But unfortunately the police can't act on
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a near gut feeling, right. That's the scary part of this.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Even if she had said to her family, I think
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I'm being followed. There's a guy with brown hair and
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: blue eyes. Well, if they interview that guy, even if
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: he turned out to be the purp and he says, well, yeah,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I get off the same train she does every day.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I take it from Manhattan like she doesn't we walk
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: the same direction to our vehicles. There's nothing the police
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: can do, So even if that person subsequently turns out
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to be the bad guy, it doesn't. It's not an
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: indictment of the police or of her family not taking action.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: There was really no crime to report other than a
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: gut suspicion prior to her abduction and subsequent murder. Eve
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Wilco It's twenty years old, working at a publishing house
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: when her body was found near the Bay Shore train station.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I'm learning it was about a ten minute walk from
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the station to where she lived in her apartment with
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: her friend. To Tony, to Stephano newsday journalists, what else
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: can you tell me about Eve's body? What was discovered? Well,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: she was discovered by a housewife looking out the window.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: She was making coffee and so you know, the body
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: on the on the ground. Uh. She uh. You know,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: there had been signs. Uh it was clear that she
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: had been raped. That came out subsequent. Family didn't know
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: this until very recently, but the police obviously did know. Uh.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And and there was evidence of uh that she had
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: been bound and uh, and there was asphyxia, she was strangled, uh.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: And there she was, you know, dropped off like a
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: like a sacapatatus on the side of the road. Pretty chilly.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: The fact that she was raped. Cheryl a point joining
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a genetic genealogist, the Jane Hunter. Obviously they have not
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: been able to match up DNA found in and on
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: her body to the killer. Explain to me what is
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: familial DNA, So, Nancy, familial DNA is actually a process
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: that she used to run through the coded system looking
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: for a familial match to the DNA that they have.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: We can an exact match would find the perpetrator. But
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: many states now allow familial DNA, and that allows you
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: to run that DNA through the coded system, which has
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the DNA of criminals and convicted felons, and you can
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: look for a family member, a parent, a child, or
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: a sibling which show up with familial DNA, and lots
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: of times that leads police to an area where they
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: can actually find who the criminal is. To Tony to Stephano,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Newsday journalist, tell me about what you know regarding DNA
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: found on or in Eve's body. Well, it was enough.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: I think it was robust enough to take a sample
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: run it through codas. Of course, they got an hits
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: on that, compare it with possible suspects such as boyfriends,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: ex boyfriends and other people and come up with no hits.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: As it were, it would just uh, you know, was
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: explained to us that you know, the sample was good
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: enough for that and what they have in terms of
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the profile of the unknown male, they are now going
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to try to take and run it through the genealogical
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: searching and also through familial searching, so there's enough fare
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: for them to do the searching and it was a
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: good enough sample. Sometimes the sample is enough, very good,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: and they can't do familial searching or any other kind
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: of searching. New York State sometimes rejected I think probably
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: about a dozen or so samples they got from law
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: enforcement over the years, but recently because the samples are
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: just not good, you know, there's not enough to compare well.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: This is what I know. New DNA methods could crack
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: this case. When the Golden State killer case was cracked
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: wide open based on familial DNA, the remaining relatives of
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Eve Wilkowitz thought it would crack their case wide open
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: as well. We do know that Wilkowitz's relatives contacted a
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: private DNA group Now this private DNA group used this
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: investigated genealogical technique to solve violent crimes, and it sparked
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: interest in the technique parabond they did not do. The
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Golden State killer case has since helped dozens of cases
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: become solved, and they are led by the company's genetic
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: genealogist ccmore. Now here's the problem. New York regulates private
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: companies performing DNA forensic tests. Cheryl a point genetic genealogist,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the gene hunter Shara, How difficult would it be too
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: if you got DNA? How much do you need? What
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: quality does it have to be? Not degenerated? How can
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: we do this, Nancy? This DNA would have to be
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: put in what we call a sniff file, and it
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: would have to be uploaded to the genealogical sites that
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: we use, the same sites that I use daily to
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: help adoptees find their biological family. You put that information
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: in there and you look for connections, biological connections to ancestors.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: It would I believe this case definitely could benefit from
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: this process. We would look for shared ancestors. I build
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: a family tree, and I find common lines and give
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: leads to law enforcements that hopefully would direct them to
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: someone who is connected to this criminal. Share a point.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I've got a question for you for people that want
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: to do, for instance, ancestry dot com or whatever it
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: is they want to do, is there a way that
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: they make their names secret? Do they get false ID
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: so it makes it harder to track them down? Yes, ma'am.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: You can use aliases on any of these directed consumer
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: DNA testing companies, and oftentimes it is difficult for us
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: to find out who a match is. And again, all
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: we get is a name of who the matches are.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: We don't see anyone's genetic code. We just get names.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: So it's very possible to keep that information private. On
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the site that law enforcement uses white jed match, we
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: have to actually enter an email to upload your information.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: So that's how I have been contacted in the past
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: by law enforcement looking at matches that could possibly help
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: them with cases. And I know now that law enforcement
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: cases have to be specifically tagged for law enforcement use.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: So unless you opt in or agree to law enforcement
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: using that, you won't be seen by law enforcement. You're right,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: So that's another hurdle that will have to be crossed
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to host of America Talk Ste's Next TV former NYPD
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: John Cardillo, What about it, John Cardillo, Well, look in
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: New York State we were talking about there's something very
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: bizarre going on there politically. You can see it with
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: their new no cash bail. New York State politicians and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to come out and say it, and I'll
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: take credit for it, are pro criminal. There's no other
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: way to phrase it, because the evidence supports it. We're
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: letting in New York State armed robbers, guys with four
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to five bank robberies out on bail. And recently a
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: ninety two year old woman was raped and murdered by
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a repeat offender set three hours after arrest because of
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: no cash bail. And so when you've got that pro criminal,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: anti criminal justice, anti law and order mentality in New
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: York State, why would they deploy familiar DNA, which is
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: a travesty because it works, it's constitutional, investigatively sound, and
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: it's putting bad guys in prison. And I think the
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: people in New York State should be very, very alarmed
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: at what's going on. To fill the Toronto father of
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: slain jog Or Karina a Toronto, you pushed at New
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: York State to allow familial DNA correct correct and it
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: is allowed, And there were fourteen cases brought to New
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: York State Policy News Justice that were approved for use
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: of familiar DNA testing. So it's not the governor who's
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: putting the brakes on this. It's a very slow process,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: but I'm trying to find out what he's taking them
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: so long. I mean, I've even heard that they've gotten
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: a few leads, you know, a few hits where it
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: might be a relation crime stories with Nancy grace A.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: New York requires private companies that want to do familial testing,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: although if it's been allowed in New York, the crime lab,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the state crime lab, should be doing it. But private
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: companies before they can do DNA forensic testing, they have
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: to get what is called a forensic identity permit from
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the New York State Department of Health. And that requires
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: just private companies to make sure they're up to snuff
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: before they hand over any DNA. But you don't want
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: to lose a DNA or damage the DNA for future testing.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Sperry, a former chief medical Examiner for the
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: entire state of Georgia. Doctor Sperry can't you reproduce DNA
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: in the lab. Say you've just got a tiny bit
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: of DNA, can it be regenerated so you can then
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: share some of that whether they I have a testing
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: company like peribond, Well you can amplify DNA, that is,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: using special techniques. You can take a very very tiny
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: quantity of DNA and really amplify it or at large
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: it so you have more to work with. But it's
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a very tricky process as well, and
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: it's in order to do that and then share it
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: with other companies. That's you know, there's also room for
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: error if DNA is transferred from one one place to another.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: The best process really is to collect as much specimens
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: as possible. Initially, say with the autopsy has done and
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the examination of the victim has done, is collect all
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the clothing, take multiple swabs from everywhere on and in
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: the body, especially in a suspect of where a rape
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: has been suspected, and then be very careful about testing
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: because only a tiny amount of specimen is really necessary, uh,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: you know these days to do good accurate testing so
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that those are that's part of the quality control aspects
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: of doing DNA testing is um, that one has to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: be very careful. Unfortunately, today, very very very tiny quantities
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: are highly reliable. I mean they're dependable. So even tiny
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: amounts are dependable. And I think I'm hearing what you're
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: saying correctly or understanding it correctly. Doctor Sperry. Are you
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: saying that DNA cannot be reproduced but you can amplify
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: it or make it bigger so you have more to
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: test with. Yes, exactly, that's done. That's that's the part
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of the routine process. I guess. I want you to
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at newsday so well,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I know she was out with her friend in the city.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: She was working to end Mith Mill and Publishing in Manhattan,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: and she was having dinner with her friend, and she
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: was going to go on the train to come home.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: And I made at home and my kids, I worry
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: every little time they go out to do of my
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: last words then all times, be careful. You know, I
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: love you. I make sure I tell them every time
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: after I see you know when I see them, you
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: don't be careful to be safe? You know, you know
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: it's you just never know. How could he have lived
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: with himself all these years and not have turned himself
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: in or whatever he used to or how could he
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you know, another human being do that's another human being.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: It's just beyond my h you know, how it could,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: how people could think all of it and anymore? What
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: are you waiting for? You know, this is the time.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: You know, life is too short, too precious to you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: let's help help my family find answers. It's just crazy already.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Well likely because the killer, the rapist wants to save
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: his own skin. He may have even committed more rapes
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and murders to Tony to Stephana, Newsday journal is joining
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: as Tony, what is the hold up? Well, I still said,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: you know it is allowed, And the problem is that
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: there's a process that's a little bureaucratically cumbersome. Police agencies
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: have to sign with the state a memorandum of understanding.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: And this became big flash point with the NYPD, and
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: which has no role in this case, the NYPD in
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: the state. But it's it's a process. You got to
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: sign us memorandom. You've got a year to certain processes
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and practices. You also have to have your people go
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: through certain training. Uh. And you also have to get
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: a sample that is acceptable to the state. I don't
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: think that's a problem in this case, the Wilkowits case.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: So again, hold up, I don't know all that. What
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: do you think up? Yeah, I think that the probable
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: hold up to me is that somewhere along the line
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: they haven't done these bureauratic things, that either they haven't
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: signed a memorandum of understanding or they haven't put enough
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: people through through training. The police commissioners said that they're
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: working on it's a process, and okay, that's that's what
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: she's doing. But it's a process. Take a listen to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: our friends at Newsday. So I have been in contact
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: with the FBI on this case, in particular brief the moment,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: and they are interested and they will open up an
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: investigation on their end, and then we'll collaborate together. Okay, say,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: reason to be a little uptimistic now that the FBI
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: is getting involved, and maybe just maybe they'll be closure
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: not restricted by the Department of Health regulations on unlicensing
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: of outside laboratories. So they bring a myriad, as you know,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: of resources to a case, that being one of them,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: and and we're obviously going to pursue every available avenue
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: that we have and this is this is something that
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: we're very interested in pursuing my sister. This technology may
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: became it just the right time. Their timeline is slow.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: They do one case per month around the state moment,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: so it's that's a little challenging for us, but for
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: we have we definitely take advantage of that. I wonder
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: how that makes as family feel. Listen to Mary Murphy
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: picks eleven. The memories can be crushing for Irene Brassoner,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: who started running after her mother died. She was later
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with a painful stomach condition, Crohn's disease. She started
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: doing half marathons to fundraise. I really didn't have any
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: friends whatsoever. With the sixteen challenge, the event the most
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: amazing people. When I'm running, that's my only time that
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: my mind is completely like at peace. Still, Brostner's own
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: medical challenges have continued in just two years. Had always
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: diagnosuppress cancer and had a bilateral messat to me, so
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I'm cancer for you. I think I sn't it right now,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: And at fifty three, Brassener said it's time to speak
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: out for her sister. Her beloved father died in twenty
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: ten without getting justice. What is your hope now, Well,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: it's a fine tif we did this to her. I
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: know we can't bring her back or anything. I have
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: to be her voice. It has to be now. If
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: you have information, call eight hundred two two to eight
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: four seven seven, repeat eight hundred two two zero eight
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: four seven seven and Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: goodbye friend,