Latest / Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy / 421 | Does Birth Order Matter in CCPT? (Especially for Only Children)

Transcript

421 | Does Birth Order Matter in CCPT? (Especially for Only Children) · Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy

• 0:00
  You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
• 0:04
  your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
• 0:08
  Hi,
• 0:08
  I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
• 0:09
  The Kid Counselor.
• 0:10
  This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
• 0:12
  a master class in child-centered play therapy
• 0:15
  and practical support and application for your
• 0:17
  work with children and their families.
• 0:19
  In today's episode,
• 0:20
  we are answering a question,
• 0:22
  well,
• 0:22
  I guess we're talking about a question and answering a question
• 0:26
  from Christy in Kentucky.
• 0:28
  Thank you,
• 0:28
  Christy,
• 0:29
  for the question.
• 0:30
  And it's actually about birth order.
• 0:31
  I don't talk about this very often on the podcast,
• 0:34
  but I talk about it
• 0:35
  in the Collective and in in coaching a lot.
• 0:38
  Birth order is one of my favorite topics of study
• 0:42
  as a child-centered play therapist.
• 0:44
  And it is one of the most consistent
• 0:48
  topics
• 0:49
  about which I
• 0:50
  share with parents.
• 0:52
  Because
• 0:53
  when you sit down with a parent for the first time and they start
• 0:56
  describing the family dynamic and they might be talking about their child to focus,
• 0:59
  so if they have 3 kids
• 1:01
  and they want you to see the oldest,
• 1:03
  for example,
• 1:05
  and then they say,
• 1:06
  yeah,
• 1:06
  and he has a younger brother and then a baby sister.
• 1:10
  OK,
• 1:10
  if you understand birth order,
• 1:12
  you can with
• 1:14
  pretty
• 1:16
  high levels of accuracy,
• 1:19
  share with the parent
• 1:20
  what
• 1:21
  The dynamic is likely in the family
• 1:24
  just based on birth order norms,
• 1:26
  and that gives you
• 1:28
  kind of a superpower,
• 1:29
  if you will,
• 1:31
  for helping parents have some insight and perspective
• 1:34
  about what's going on in the family and why
• 1:37
  and how birth order and birth role shapes personality
• 1:40
  and how that comes into identity development
• 1:44
  and there are role reversals and there are hybrids and there's all this crazy stuff.
• 1:47
  So,
• 1:48
  Anyway,
• 1:48
  all that to say,
• 1:49
  I've done workshops on birth order before and I usually
• 1:53
  almost always bring up birth order when I meet with parents.
• 1:55
  So,
• 1:57
  I'm gonna read parts of Christie's question and we're gonna dive in.
• 1:59
  However,
• 2:00
  I want to really quickly,
• 2:02
  I want to share a couple of things.
• 2:03
  First of all,
• 2:05
  with these events coming up,
• 2:07
  the Indiana and the New Jersey event are the same.
• 2:09
  And I want to share a little bit about what
• 2:12
  we're gonna be covering at those events.
• 2:14
  I am really excited.
• 2:15
  We just finalized the curriculum and we got all the slides situated and
• 2:21
  we have been building it from scratch,
• 2:23
  creating it from scratch.
• 2:24
  This is never
• 2:25
  before heard or seen information
• 2:28
  for this I Am CCPT - Live!
• 2:30
  And this is unlike anything I've ever taught or coached before.
• 2:34
  This,
• 2:35
  these specific trainings in Jersey and Indiana are
• 2:38
  why CCPT works.
• 2:41
  And we're going beyond the skills
• 2:43
  into what I would call the "missing level"
• 2:46
  in most CCPT training.
• 2:49
  In other words,
• 2:50
  in standard
• 2:52
  curricula or
• 2:54
  workshops,
• 2:55
  events,
• 2:55
  training,
• 2:56
  whatever,
• 2:57
  we're missing the clinical reasoning layer.
• 3:00
  That is sandwiched in between theory
• 3:04
  and technique.
• 3:06
  So,
• 3:07
  not often,
• 3:07
  but every once in a while you can find CCPT theory stuff.
• 3:11
  You can find a ton of CCPT technique.
• 3:15
  But there is a missing layer in between those,
• 3:17
  the clinical reasoning layer,
• 3:19
  and that's specifically what this is going to be about.
• 3:22
  And let me explain a little bit more about what I mean.
• 3:25
  Most CCPTs,
• 3:27
  especially if you listen to this podcast,
• 3:28
  if you're in the Collective or if you coach or
• 3:30
  if you've been doing CCPT a while,
• 3:32
  most of you know the responses.
• 3:35
  You know
• 3:36
  that
• 3:37
  we reflect and we return responsibility
• 3:40
  and we encourage rather than praise.
• 3:42
  We know there's 3 steps to setting limits.
• 3:45
  We
• 3:45
  follow the,
• 3:46
  follow the child's lead,
• 3:47
  so on and so forth.
• 3:47
  OK,
• 3:48
  so we know those as standard,
• 3:50
  but I think what is often missed
• 3:53
  is why those responses matter
• 3:55
  and
• 3:56
  what the model itself is protecting
• 4:00
  in each of those moments.
• 4:02
  And that's what we're going to unpack live.
• 4:05
  Basically,
• 4:05
  you're going to learn how to reason from the model.
• 4:10
  Stop second-guessing your responses or doubting or being unsure or unclear,
• 4:16
  and be able to practice CCPT with more clarity and fidelity and confidence
• 4:22
  and adherence.
• 4:24
  So,
• 4:25
  obviously,
• 4:25
  I can't explain a six-hour training in 2 minutes,
• 4:28
  but that's my,
• 4:29
  that's my best attempt.
• 4:31
  This is literally something that you're not gonna find anywhere else.
• 4:34
  I'm really excited about it.
• 4:35
  I mean,
• 4:35
  brand new content.
• 4:37
  And it's something that we've been working on for a while
• 4:39
  because this is what's often missing in our practice right now.
• 4:43
  We know the skills and we know the theory,
• 4:47
  but we don't
• 4:48
  know the why
• 4:49
  and we don't know the clinical reasoning that comes from the model.
• 4:52
  And,
• 4:52
  and what I think is most important,
• 4:54
  to be honest,
• 4:55
  is what the model protects
• 4:57
  in each of the skills that we use.
• 5:00
  They're not just skills.
• 5:01
  Every skill has purpose,
• 5:03
  and the purpose is to protect something.
• 5:06
  And so we're gonna dive into what it protects and why it's so important.
• 5:10
  So,
• 5:10
  I'm really looking forward to that.
• 5:11
  If you are interested in Indiana,
• 5:13
  y'all better hurry up because August 1st is cut off for early bird pricing.
• 5:18
  If you're interested in
• 5:20
  New Jersey,
• 5:20
  obviously,
• 5:21
  there's more time.
• 5:21
  That's not till October.
• 5:23
  So,
• 5:25
  go to iamccpt.live
• 5:27
  It'll also be in the show notes and you can get signed up,
• 5:29
  but really looking forward to that.
• 5:31
  And for those of you that have already registered,
• 5:33
  I can't wait to see you.
• 5:34
  So,
• 5:35
  all right,
• 5:35
  let's dive into Christy's question.
• 5:37
  And we'll kind of process birth order a little bit.
• 5:40
  I recently listened to several episodes about birth order and how
• 5:43
  it can influence a child's development and the parent-child relationship.
• 5:47
  I found the discussion fascinating,
• 5:48
  and it left me wondering about only children.
• 5:51
  When a child is simultaneously the oldest,
• 5:53
  youngest,
• 5:54
  and only in the family.
• 5:56
  What does research tell us about their development,
• 5:58
  family dynamics,
• 5:59
  and overall experience?
• 6:00
  As therapists practicing CCPT,
• 6:03
  are there unique considerations we should be aware
• 6:05
  of when working with only child families?
• 6:08
  With more families today choosing to have one child,
• 6:10
  I'm curious about the research and clinical experience
• 6:13
  and what it can teach us about supporting these
• 6:15
  children and their families through a CCPT lens.
• 6:19
  So,
• 6:19
  Christy,
• 6:20
  I'm excited about this.
• 6:20
  I'm an only child mom,
• 6:22
  so I very,
• 6:23
  very much am aware of the only child dynamic
• 6:26
  and it's very true.
• 6:28
  More and more families are having one child.
• 6:31
  And so
• 6:32
  we are seeing,
• 6:32
  I mean,
• 6:33
  it used to be a very small percentage of families had only one child,
• 6:37
  and that number has skyrocketed in the last 15 or so years.
• 6:42
  And so we are seeing more 3 person families.
• 6:47
  And therefore it does give us something to consider
• 6:50
  because only children used to be rare.
• 6:52
  They're not so rare anymore.
• 6:54
  Now,
• 6:54
  I want to be really clear before I even dive into this.
• 6:57
  We don't change anything.
• 7:00
  Whether it's an oldest,
• 7:01
  a youngest,
• 7:02
  a middle,
• 7:02
  a middle of 3,
• 7:03
  a middle of 5,
• 7:04
  and only a hybrid,
• 7:06
  a role reversal,
• 7:07
  CCPT is what it is,
• 7:09
  and we are adherent and faithful to the model no matter what.
• 7:12
  So,
• 7:12
  it does not
• 7:13
  interfere or interrupt any of the CCPT process
• 7:17
  when we're actively,
• 7:18
  actively working with the child.
• 7:20
  However,
• 7:21
  what are considerations?
• 7:23
  What does research tell us?
• 7:24
  How can we better support parents and families
• 7:27
  with this dynamic?
• 7:28
  OK,
• 7:29
  that's definitely something we can dive into.
• 7:32
  So,
• 7:33
  an only child is in a unique scenario where
• 7:36
  there are no predetermined.
• 7:39
  Birth order rolls.
• 7:41
  In other words,
• 7:41
  typically when the oldest is born.
• 7:44
  Well,
• 7:45
  they're an only at the beginning.
• 7:47
  When,
• 7:47
  when another child comes in,
• 7:48
  they become the oldest.
• 7:49
  So every child,
• 7:50
  every firstborn is actually an only for a little while,
• 7:54
  but
• 7:55
  I was dethroned.
• 7:56
  Can you,
• 7:56
  can you sense that a little bit in me?
• 7:58
  I was 3 years old.
• 7:59
  My brother was born,
• 8:00
  and I actually asked my mom as a 3 year old,
• 8:03
  can you take him back?
• 8:05
  Because all of a sudden he just showed up
• 8:07
  and in my little 3-year-old brain,
• 8:08
  I guess she bought him.
• 8:09
  I don't really know,
• 8:10
  but I actually asked her,
• 8:11
  Can you take him back?
• 8:13
  So,
• 8:13
  I mean,
• 8:13
  there was my.
• 8:15
  Throning moment.
• 8:15
  I,
• 8:16
  I'm not exactly proud of that,
• 8:17
  but I was 3,
• 8:18
  so,
• 8:18
  you know,
• 8:18
  whatever.
• 8:19
  All right.
• 8:20
  But we have
• 8:21
  an oldest,
• 8:23
  then the second sibling is born,
• 8:25
  and
• 8:26
  the oldest
• 8:27
  already had a developing role,
• 8:29
  already had a developing personality,
• 8:31
  but then becoming
• 8:32
  an older sibling instead of the only.
• 8:35
  It solidifies it
• 8:37
  because most often
• 8:39
  it's a nature and a nurture kind of thing,
• 8:41
  and there's an expectation component as well.
• 8:44
  So as soon as a younger sibling is born,
• 8:46
  parents are quick to say,
• 8:48
  Can you help me with that?
• 8:49
  Can you go grab the diaper?
• 8:50
  Can you get the bottle?
• 8:51
  Can you
• 8:53
  get the shoes so that we can go?
• 8:55
  Can you grab the bag?
• 8:57
  Can you?
• 8:57
  You're such a big helper.
• 8:59
  OK,
• 8:59
  so very quickly,
• 9:01
  the oldest child
• 9:02
  starts to become responsible.
• 9:05
  And driven
• 9:06
  and helpful
• 9:07
  and people pleasing
• 9:09
  and all of these things because not only is that kind of
• 9:14
  They
• 9:15
  are bent toward it just naturally,
• 9:17
  but then also other people in their life kind of push them into that role.
• 9:22
  Well,
• 9:23
  an only child that never gets dethroned.
• 9:26
  There's no other role that's been established.
• 9:29
  And see,
• 9:29
  what's fascinating is once a role gets claimed,
• 9:32
  it is very rare
• 9:34
  if a younger sibling tries to take the same role.
• 9:37
  So if the oldest is
• 9:39
  Straight A's,
• 9:40
  academic,
• 9:41
  driven,
• 9:42
  responsible,
• 9:42
  people pleasing.
• 9:44
  A second child is not going to go that route
• 9:47
  because they can't compete.
• 9:48
  It's already taken,
• 9:50
  so they'll find a completely different identity.
• 9:52
  So they'll be the social butterfly or they'll be the funny one,
• 9:55
  or they'll be
• 9:56
  the athlete,
• 9:58
  or they'll be whatever.
• 9:59
  And so then if there are 2 children and then a 3rd child is born,
• 10:03
  well,
• 10:03
  we have the academic first and we have the athlete second.
• 10:06
  Well,
• 10:06
  then the 3rd 1 has to go a completely different route as well.
• 10:09
  Only kids can be
• 10:11
  anything they want to be.
• 10:13
  So they can be athletic
• 10:14
  and academic
• 10:16
  and musical
• 10:17
  and funny
• 10:18
  and whatever.
• 10:19
  So they actually are a very unique combination
• 10:24
  of personality traits
• 10:26
  because
• 10:27
  it would
• 10:27
  typically be a conflict.
• 10:29
  An oldest child is usually not the funny social butterfly.
• 10:34
  Present company included.
• 10:37
  So,
• 10:37
  I'm an oldest and I,
• 10:38
  I don't fit that personality at all.
• 10:41
  I fit quintessential oldest kid.
• 10:43
  But my brother,
• 10:44
  on the other hand,
• 10:45
  the baby of the family,
• 10:47
  he
• 10:48
  has 1000 friends.
• 10:49
  I think I've talked about this before.
• 10:51
  I have
• 10:52
  3 friends.
• 10:53
  And they're long and deep
• 10:55
  and like,
• 10:56
  oh my gosh,
• 10:57
  they're
• 10:58
  so
• 10:59
  important and meaningful
• 11:00
  and he has 1000 friends and they would be all more like,
• 11:05
  yeah,
• 11:05
  we like to hang out,
• 11:06
  but
• 11:07
  it's kind of on a more surface level
• 11:09
  and he's like,
• 11:10
  more is better and I'm less is more and
• 11:14
  So,
• 11:14
  but he is funny and he is social and he loves people and he wants to be around and,
• 11:20
  and I'm like,
• 11:21
  I'll hang out with like one person and then I'll read
• 11:24
  my book or listen to music and I'm OK with that,
• 11:26
  you know,
• 11:26
  I'm an ambivert,
• 11:27
  he's an extrovert.
• 11:29
  So,
• 11:30
  He saw that I was the academic and I was
• 11:32
  the responsible one and I was the dependable one.
• 11:35
  And
• 11:36
  to this day,
• 11:36
  I mean,
• 11:37
  oh my word,
• 11:38
  he's finally having a baby and he just got married.
• 11:42
  And I mean,
• 11:42
  so he's finally kind of,
• 11:45
  you know,
• 11:45
  evolving into
• 11:47
  An adult
• 11:48
  lifestyle,
• 11:49
  I suppose.
• 11:50
  But
• 11:50
  even recently
• 11:52
  we were on the phone and he's like,
• 11:53
  Well,
• 11:53
  you know that I don't plan things.
• 11:55
  Well,
• 11:55
  I mean,
• 11:55
  you're better at organizing things.
• 11:57
  Well,
• 11:57
  I mean,
• 11:57
  I'm not going to like put together something for Dad for Father's Day.
• 12:00
  Like,
• 12:00
  what do you want to do?
• 12:01
  I'm like,
• 12:01
  oh my gosh,
• 12:03
  this is birth order roll in my face.
• 12:06
  An only child,
• 12:07
  however,
• 12:08
  never has that.
• 12:09
  So if they want to be a little bit of everything,
• 12:11
  they can.
• 12:12
  So it actually creates this really interesting,
• 12:14
  well-rounded personality.
• 12:16
  Here's another component we know per research,
• 12:19
  since you were asking about that,
• 12:21
  that only children.
• 12:23
  Statistically become the most well adjusted and satisfied in adulthood.
• 12:29
  Compared to any other birth
• 12:31
  order role.
• 12:32
  Why is that?
• 12:33
  Because they spend their whole childhood
• 12:36
  around adults.
• 12:38
  They spend their whole childhood around parents,
• 12:41
  so they become very comfortable around adults.
• 12:44
  And in childhood,
• 12:45
  it creates a little bit of a disconnect for them
• 12:48
  because
• 12:49
  they
• 12:50
  don't really fit in with peers very often because they're usually more mature,
• 12:53
  they're more well spoken.
• 12:55
  They're more articulate,
• 12:56
  they're more communicative.
• 12:57
  They think and operate more like an adult than they do a child.
• 13:02
  And so they spend their childhood kind of being more.
• 13:06
  Responsible and mature than their peers,
• 13:08
  so there's a little bit of a disconnect.
• 13:11
  Let me tell you a really quick story.
• 13:12
  This will completely illustrate
• 13:14
  the whole thing.
• 13:15
  So we were at a baseball tournament
• 13:17
  weekend
• 13:18
  in Orlando.
• 13:19
  The whole baseball team's at a hotel.
• 13:22
  All the boys go out to the pool.
• 13:24
  So all the parents are sitting
• 13:25
  on the side of the pool deck and all the boys are in the pool.
• 13:29
  And there's probably,
• 13:31
  I don't know,
• 13:31
  15 of them.
• 13:33
  And
• 13:33
  the boys of all sizes,
• 13:35
  all weights,
• 13:36
  all heights.
• 13:36
  I mean,
• 13:37
  you know,
• 13:37
  imagine a 1516 year old baseball team.
• 13:41
  They're all on the end of the pool,
• 13:44
  and they start
• 13:46
  doing this game where they line up,
• 13:48
  all of them line up
• 13:50
  along the edge of the pool
• 13:51
  facing away from the pool,
• 13:52
  so their backs are to the edge of the pool.
• 13:55
  And whoever is it
• 13:57
  has to bum rush whoever they want
• 14:00
  and hit them as hard as they can and knock them into the pool,
• 14:03
  but they have to try not to end up in the pool.
• 14:05
  Like the person bum rushing has to try not to get yanked in
• 14:08
  when they knock the other person into the pool.
• 14:11
  And so all of us parents are watching and like the coach is like,
• 14:14
  hey,
• 14:14
  we're playing a game tomorrow.
• 14:15
  You guys can't get hurt and like,
• 14:16
  don't be rowdy.
• 14:17
  And then the moms and dads are like,
• 14:19
  hey,
• 14:19
  that's too rough.
• 14:20
  Like you're going to break someone's arm and blah,
• 14:22
  blah,
• 14:22
  blah.
• 14:22
  And like,
• 14:23
  they're,
• 14:23
  I mean,
• 14:23
  all the adults are concerned about this pool behavior.
• 14:26
  And all of a sudden the coach looks at me and goes,
• 14:28
  Where's Kane?
• 14:30
  Kane was out of the pool,
• 14:31
  by the way,
• 14:32
  and I go
• 14:33
  in the hot tub watching.
• 14:35
  And
• 14:36
  I'm not kidding y'all.
• 14:37
  The entire team is doing this
• 14:39
  knock each other into the pool game
• 14:42
  and Kane has his arms up on the edge of the hot tub
• 14:45
  with his legs crossed.
• 14:46
  Like
• 14:46
  you,
• 14:47
  you could imagine him like eating popcorn.
• 14:49
  Like he's just watching it.
• 14:50
  Like this is the most fascinating thing,
• 14:51
  and he has like a smirk on his face.
• 14:53
  And so the coach is like,
• 14:54
  Where's Kane?
• 14:54
  And I go in the hot tub and he goes,
• 14:56
  of course he is.
• 14:58
  I was like,
• 14:58
  yep,
• 14:59
  that's my kid.
• 15:00
  All right,
• 15:01
  it's an only child.
• 15:02
  He looks at that like,
• 15:04
  you guys are
• 15:05
  morons.
• 15:06
  What are you doing?
• 15:07
  Like,
• 15:07
  you're gonna get hurt or you're gonna,
• 15:08
  like,
• 15:09
  this is not smart and why you have a tournament tomorrow.
• 15:11
  Why are you wasting all this energy?
• 15:13
  Like,
• 15:13
  I know the way his wheels work.
• 15:15
  Because
• 15:16
  he thinks and operates more like an adult than a 15 or 16 year old.
• 15:20
  So,
• 15:21
  really interesting dynamic that when they become an adult,
• 15:25
  They feel like they've finally arrived.
• 15:27
  And what I mean by that is
• 15:29
  they've spent their whole life
• 15:30
  waiting
• 15:31
  for their peers
• 15:33
  to be the people they're most comfortable around.
• 15:35
  You understand what I'm saying?
• 15:36
  Like at 12 and at 15 and at 17,
• 15:40
  they always have been comfortable around adults.
• 15:42
  And then when their peers are actually finally adults,
• 15:46
  so their friends are adults and they are an adult,
• 15:49
  their world writes itself and it's like,
• 15:52
  oh,
• 15:52
  I'm finally around my favorite people,
• 15:54
  but it's not older
• 15:56
  adults anymore,
• 15:57
  it's their actual peers.
• 15:59
  So they tend to be very happy,
• 16:02
  very content,
• 16:03
  very well adjusted in adulthood.
• 16:05
  And they never had
• 16:07
  to compete.
• 16:08
  They never had rivalry.
• 16:09
  They never had jealousy.
• 16:10
  They never felt less than a sibling.
• 16:12
  They never felt more than a sibling.
• 16:14
  So,
• 16:14
  it's a very interesting dynamic,
• 16:16
  and this is all helpful for parents to know.
• 16:19
  So,
• 16:19
  in the playroom,
• 16:20
  obviously,
• 16:21
  we're going to see unique personality,
• 16:23
  different than an oldest,
• 16:24
  for example.
• 16:26
  Only children tend to not be as
• 16:30
  Fearful.
• 16:31
  They tend to not be as
• 16:33
  governed by people pleasing and perfectionism.
• 16:36
  I mean,
• 16:36
  they,
• 16:37
  they very much are wired for excellence and success,
• 16:40
  but they don't have the pressure
• 16:43
  that oldest often feel.
• 16:45
  And then they don't have the,
• 16:47
  I just want everyone to be happy peacemaking vibe that middle children have,
• 16:51
  and they don't have the extrovert social butterfly.
• 16:53
  I'm just going to let everyone do everything for me baby mentality.
• 16:57
  So,
• 16:58
  birth order does influence behavior,
• 17:00
  absolutely.
• 17:01
  We can recognize it in the playroom,
• 17:04
  but we're not going to change anything that we do.
• 17:07
  A lot of the birth order knowledge is for us to share with parents
• 17:10
  and equip them.
• 17:11
  And here's another little anecdotal thought.
• 17:15
  Your own birth
• 17:16
  order,
• 17:17
  your own birth role in your family of origin.
• 17:20
  Like I am an oldest.
• 17:22
  So if I had more than one child,
• 17:25
  it is statistically.
• 17:27
  Likely
• 17:28
  that I'm going to connect
• 17:30
  better
• 17:31
  with the oldest
• 17:32
  of my children
• 17:34
  because I know what it's like to be an oldest.
• 17:35
  I don't know what it's like to be a middle or a youngest,
• 17:38
  and so
• 17:39
  parents often link up and bond and connect
• 17:43
  easiest and best
• 17:45
  with their own birth order child.
• 17:49
  So this is also an interesting dynamic because
• 17:52
  it creates division in the family because
• 17:54
  the oldest parent and the oldest child are going to be in cahoots often.
• 17:58
  And then,
• 17:59
  you know,
• 17:59
  like the youngest parent and the youngest child are going to be in cahoots.
• 18:03
  And so
• 18:04
  there's an understanding
• 18:06
  that comes with it,
• 18:07
  but then there's also a misunderstanding.
• 18:09
  So quick little anecdote,
• 18:10
  this is turning into a long episode.
• 18:11
  Sorry y'all,
• 18:12
  but this is
• 18:13
  Birth Order is so fun.
• 18:14
  Oh my gosh,
• 18:14
  I,
• 18:15
  I,
• 18:15
  I have,
• 18:15
  I've talked about it for 3 hours.
• 18:17
  But
• 18:18
  let me share a really quick anecdote about it as well.
• 18:20
  I think I've said this before,
• 18:21
  but I'm an oldest,
• 18:22
  obviously.
• 18:23
  My mom,
• 18:24
  my dad,
• 18:24
  and my brother are all babies.
• 18:27
  So imagine what the dynamic was for me.
• 18:29
  Still is actually.
• 18:30
  I mean,
• 18:30
  I,
• 18:31
  I would love to say that it's no longer the case,
• 18:32
  but that it,
• 18:33
  it's a
• 18:34
  lifelong scenario for sure.
• 18:36
  So my mom,
• 18:37
  dad,
• 18:37
  and brother are all youngest.
• 18:39
  They all think the same.
• 18:40
  They all see the world the same.
• 18:42
  They all understand each other.
• 18:43
  They all get each other.
• 18:44
  They all operate the same,
• 18:46
  and they,
• 18:46
  none of them have any idea what it's like to be an oldest.
• 18:49
  And so imagine what that dynamic has been and is.
• 18:54
  And
• 18:55
  I'm not resentful of that.
• 18:56
  I'm not complaining about it.
• 18:57
  It's just,
• 18:58
  it's different because
• 18:59
  they're
• 19:00
  in like groupthink mentality.
• 19:03
  They all operate the same way.
• 19:04
  Their experience has been the same.
• 19:06
  So
• 19:07
  everything supports their way of thinking because they all think the same way.
• 19:11
  And then I'm like,
• 19:13
  well,
• 19:14
  that doesn't make sense.
• 19:15
  We need to be logical about that.
• 19:17
  And
• 19:17
  the three of them are like,
• 19:19
  no.
• 19:20
  I'm like,
• 19:20
  OK,
• 19:21
  well,
• 19:22
  so the first born and the babies,
• 19:23
  never the twain shall meet,
• 19:24
  and,
• 19:25
  and here we are.
• 19:26
  That is a difficult dynamic for families.
• 19:29
  And so again,
• 19:29
  we're providing insight and perspective and awareness
• 19:33
  that it's very unlikely that a parent's going to
• 19:35
  have when we start talking about birth order and,
• 19:38
  and really helping them understand the dynamic there.
• 19:40
  My favorite book that I've ever read on birth order
• 19:43
  is called Birth Order and You by the Richardsons.
• 19:45
  So if you want to deep dive this,
• 19:47
  that would be where I would start.
• 19:48
  It's one of my favorite resources for birth order.
• 19:52
  But it talks about how your friendships
• 19:55
  are determined by your birth role,
• 19:57
  your parenting,
• 19:58
  your marriage,
• 19:59
  your interaction in the world,
• 20:01
  and I'm not kidding,
• 20:02
  it has become a standard question
• 20:05
  every time we meet people,
• 20:07
  every time.
• 20:09
  I'm like,
• 20:09
  you have siblings?
• 20:11
  Yeah,
• 20:14
  Where,
• 20:14
  where are you in the siblings?
• 20:15
  Are you oldest,
• 20:16
  youngest,
• 20:16
  baby,
• 20:17
  middle,
• 20:17
  whatever?
• 20:18
  And as soon as they tell me what they are,
• 20:21
  I have lay of the land usually of
• 20:24
  what
• 20:25
  their personality is like
• 20:26
  and what their experiences are like.
• 20:28
  It's really interesting how much it influences things.
• 20:31
  So,
• 20:32
  anyway,
• 20:32
  just wanted to share that.
• 20:33
  Christy,
• 20:33
  thank you so much for the question.
• 20:34
  I hope that that was helpful for you.
• 20:36
  And
• 20:37
  that is one of my
• 20:40
  Helpful topics that I feel contributes a lot to my work with parents
• 20:45
  because once they know that you are aware of birth order,
• 20:47
  they start asking you more questions the longer you work with them
• 20:50
  and it really becomes something that you can support them and,
• 20:53
  and educate about.
• 20:55
  So that has been one of my favorite
• 20:56
  components of working with children and their families.
• 20:59
  All right y'all,
• 20:59
  I love you.
• 21:00
  I hope you have a great week.
• 21:01
  We'll talk again soon.
• 21:02
  Bye.
• 21:03
  Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
• 21:07
  For more episodes and resources,
• 21:09
  please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.