Latest / Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment) / The Power of Disclosure: No Longer Ashamed, Ashley's Journey Through Abuse, Faith, and Healing

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The Power of Disclosure: No Longer Ashamed, Ashley's Journey Through Abuse, Faith, and Healing · Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)

• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Murders Music Podcast.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: My name is Aaron, I'm your host and we are back for another amazing week.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Just to let you guys know, the show last week got so many downloads.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: That was episode 19.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: In episode 19, we spoke to Ashley about a bumpy past that she had with her family.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: If you guys haven't got a chance to listen to it, please go back and take a bumpy past that she had with her family.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: If you guys haven't got a chance to listen to it, please go back and take a listen to that.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: But what you're going to hear tonight is a part two.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: After the episode aired and after Ashley had a chance to listen to it, she felt there were some things that she didn't quite get to explain or dive into.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: The one thing that we didn't talk about last week much was life on the other side.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: What does it look like when your world is turned upside down?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: The one who is entrusted to love you and protect you, your father, sexually abuses you for a 20-year span, becoming pregnant with his child, going through the abortion process and hiding this secret from your entire family, only to find out that your mother knew all along, while you can't prove it, you suspect it.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: While you can't prove it, the evidence, the journal that you wrote was thrown into the fire and destroyed so the secret wouldn't be brought to light.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty dark place to live.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: On the other side of that healing process, when I met Ashley, and on the other side she went to therapy and there was a healing process there that only she can explain and that's what she wants to talk about tonight.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: So we're going to jump right in.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to bring Ashley back on Again, episode 19.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: If you guys have any questions for Ashley, want to reach out, want to share your encouragement.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: The email address is murders2music at gmailcom.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Murders2music at gmailcom.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: So let's bring her on without any further ado.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: How's it going?
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Good, how are you?
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I'm good, it's going well, it's going very well.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So thanks for wanting to come back on.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Like I was telling the listeners, your episode last week got tons and tons of downloads.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Last week was the most downloads any episode has got and overall I believe the listeners that came to the show jumped on and listened to other podcasts.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: So overall, uh, podcast downloads were the largest they've ever been.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: So thank you for that and thank you for being strong enough and brave enough to come on and talk about such a sensitive topic, uh, in the hopes that you're going to help somebody else that may be living through that same thing and like a lot of things on this show.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: While it may not be your father abusing you, you can find the parallels.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Whether it's a domestic violence relationship, whether it's a work relationship, a spousal relationship, there's those parallels and that's what I want listeners to carry away from, and you were absolutely a bright light last week to a lot of people.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Thanks for letting me share.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: So one of the things that we spoke about after the show aired last week were just some things that you thought the listeners should know a little bit more about.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: That you thought the listeners should know a little bit more about, and I want to open it up to you just to kind of go through what your thought process is, what you're thinking and the message that you want to communicate, and I may have some questions as we go.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Is that cool?
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Take me there.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: What do we got?
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: What are we thinking?
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: So I mean, we talked about a lot last time and obviously it's difficult to talk about like a 20 year timeframe and to condense all that into just that amount of time that we had together.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and like explaining the dynamics too between, like, my parents and not just the like the sexual abuse that was occurring as well.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: So in my early life it appeared to be like a typical like two parent household with three children.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: My dad worked and was the primary and only source of income.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: As you guys already are aware if you listen to the previous podcast, my mother did work for like a short period of time during my early years as a child until my brother was born.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: When my brother was born, my mother had taken a medication to lose weight and it damaged her heart and causing her health issues.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: She had taken I think it was called Fen-Phen or Redux, something like that, and when that happened, my sister and myself we ended up doing a lot of housework chores and helping to care for her.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of times where I would have to rub her legs to help with the fluid from the swelling, from congestive heart failure and cardiomyopathy that she had, when her potassium would drop and her legs would cramp.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: I'd have to go run and get uh like a banana for her or like frozen orange juice, and I'd have to like stretch her legs and stuff um.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: Over time I'm a kid, um, but I'm having these adult things like based on me and over time I kind of began to have a little bit of resentment for this.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: I had to grow up really fast and become like a caretaker and my sister and my brother they didn't really have much of that responsibility because I was the oldest and they were allowed to pretty much just kind of like be kids you know, and it's amazing to me I've realized that siblings can live in the same household and have completely different versions and experiences of their parents.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I often felt like both my parents were people who they had a lot of trauma and they never healed from it.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: They should have, I felt at times they should have never had children because they weren't mentally or emotionally mature enough to raise children and, as a result of that, their trauma, that they had then caused trauma to others around them.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Ashley, do you know if there was ever any prior sexual abuse in the family prior to your situation?
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: I do know with my father.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: His sister was sexually abused by her father, just like how I was by my father.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Now, my aunt did not go to the police department, she did not report it.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: She only came out with information when she was an adult and she had only just told like the family, no like law enforcement or anything like that.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Do you know if?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Did she come out as a result of your disclosure or did she come out before you?
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Um no, she had came out with that information, um, before me.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: I was actually um a child, uh, when that had came out, and I was not allowed to like go and stay at my father's parents home or be like alone in a room with my grandfather, because of that.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: And did you know what had happened?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds like you were a young age.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Did you know what the allegations were?
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Or we just know that you couldn't go to grandpa?
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Bad touch.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Pretty much like grandpa.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Bad touch, but when, when I was a little bit older, they explained more um and and I knew and understood because I mean, I was going through the same thing with my father okay, what about any other abuse?
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: was there any other abuse in the family besides?
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I know we last week we spoke a little bit about mental stuff, but was there physical or anything like that?
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: very much.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: So there was physical abuse, for for both my parents experienced that when they were growing up Verbal, emotional.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: My mother had a lot of abandonment issues as well, because my grandmother was very young when she had her and the father was very young as well.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: They were both minors, very young when she had her and the father was very young as well.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: They were both minors and he left and did not want to raise her and as an adult at a later time he, he denied her for a really long time until it was proven that she was his child.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: You, you know, um, but then also I did have, uh, physical abuse from my father and my mother.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: My mother mostly was mental and emotional, like a lot of the times, um, she would like for an example, um, she would always forget me at school for some reason.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: She could just never be there on time to pick me up from school and I would have to sit there and I had to wait.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: And one time I decided to walk home from school and she got angry with me because I had walked home from school, um, and then I got yelled at and punished for that and then, like the next day it would happen again and I got yelled and punished for not calling someone and and to have her come pick me up.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: A lot of times I would call my grandmother, she would come pick me up and then my mother would yell at me because she was like in trouble with her mom then because, like, why aren't you?
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: They're gonna get school, you know.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: And a lot of the time she would forget me, but she never forgot my sister and my brother.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Why do you think that is?
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Probably because of the dynamics between my mom and my dad, where my father had that favoritism towards me and then my mother had favoritism favoritism towards my sister and they would try to be like, harsher and like their punishments towards the other child, to like, even and balance it out, if that makes any sense at all it's explain that to me, explain what your thoughts are there um, so like, I guess I just give you examples, um, so when I was in high school, um, I asked if I could volunteer at an animal shelter and, um, my parents agreed.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I was like awesome, cool, great, I get to go and like help these animals and stuff.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: I went there a couple of times.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: My mom had to take me there once and we were having a conversation, and a lot of the times when my mom and dad fight and argue, I had to be like the mediator between them as a child thoughts and my opinions.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I was kind of like parenting my adults, my, my parents, if that makes sense um, and I was telling her what I thought and what I felt of the situation, everything.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: And she got angry with me and told me that I was back talking to her and so she made me go inside the animal shelter and I had to go in and I had to tell them that I could no longer volunteer anymore and like the reason why?
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Like she would do a lot of things like purposefully that would like cause embarrassment, you know?
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Um, and then, on the other hand, my sister that she was a freshman in high school, uh, she got caught drinking one time at school.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: She was very, very drunk and my mom showed up to school to pick her up and my sister fled and ran and left the school because she didn't want to go home, because she was afraid of the consequence that would happen this mom was gonna beat her.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: My mom actually said that now once was found and everything.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: She was involved in sports.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: She loved soccer.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Um, it was never made to like quit the team, um, and my mother's argument was like the counselor was saying that, um, it was just a student counselor, not an actual um psychiatrist.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Uh was saying that it'd be good for her to stay in like a structured routine so she wouldn't like rebel or have any issues with alcohol, and so she was able to continue her sport that she liked and I was unable to continue your stuff.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: The punishments were not equal.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: There was no equality in the distribution of punishment.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Yours was more personal, embarrassing, causing you some angstitism that your mom felt between your relationship with your dad and that was maybe your mom's way of taking it out on you and abusing you.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, and though I have to say also my father would be that way towards my sister as well, because when she was home and they got into an argument and it became physical, he actually slammed her head into the oven door one time, though I have to say he was also physical toward me as well, but there were times where sometimes he wouldn't, and then there would just be a different consequence, if that makes sense sure, and you mentioned that.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So so far I'm going to go back and touch on something you said a second ago, and that was your dad.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Your dad grew up in a house with his sister.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, during that time your, their father, was sexually abusing uh, your dad, sister, your aunt.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Is that correct?
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Which is exactly what he did to you, correct.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, and the dad experienced physical abuse at the hands of his father and therefore did that same thing in your house, not only with you, but with the whole family, and slamming your sister into the oven, so on and so forth, correct.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Sounds like your grandpa was also filled with rage, like you described your father.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, he was very much so.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: So and I mean I know this is what I'm about to say is, um, I want to say it's common sense to me, but it's because of the world that I lived in.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: But I want to twist it and say it a little bit different.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Obviously, people learn from their past.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: They learn from their past and we always want to think, you know, as what we believe are decent human beings, being on the other side of it that we're never going to be that way and we're not going to teach our kids bad lessons.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: But the truth is that the future is learning from us.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, and I saw that a lot in domestic violence, where it was the same thing.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: It's a pattern of behavior.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: You know, the abuser today grew up in a house where people were abused and they're just passing it down and the kids see it and it's a generational thing.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: And I've never I mean I guess I have thought about sex abuse being a generational thing.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: But this is so unique To set of circumstances a father having a full-blown relationship with his daughter.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: You know that bell doesn't really ring twice very often and in this family we've got it at least twice Correct, okay, when you were young, and when you were young, did you ever contemplate suicide?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Was suicide ever an idea or a thought for you during this period of time and, if so, what's your?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: earliest memory of it.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, actually, unfortunately, I did have those thoughts A lot of the times.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I felt isolated, hopeless.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: I was depressed.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: I felt like people could see that I was physically there, but they never actually saw me.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: It led me to think that my only way out was suicide.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: I knew also that I didn't want to die, but I didn't know how to live.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I felt trapped and I had no way to escape my life as I knew it at the time.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: So I was around five to six years old when I made my first suicide attempt.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: We lived in a cul-de-sac and I lay down in the streets hoping that a car would run me over and that the pain would stop.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: I couldn't go to anyone my mom or my dad and in my child's mind I thought that I could be like an angel to protect my siblings still, but no one could hurt me anymore if I was an angel.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: My mom she found me in the street and she started screaming and yelling at me for being in the street.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: She asked me what I was doing.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: I told her what I was doing, that I wanted to be an angel, and she responded by yelling and threatening to eat my bottom for being stupid and told me to never do anything like that again.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: For being stupid and told me to never do anything like that again, I'm sure there was, you know, probably some fear that she had to the fact that her child was laying out there in the street and that could have actually happened.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: A lot of the time, growing up, I felt, you know, so hopeless that I would try and do my best to be compliant, to avoid any kind of discipline, and I wasn't allowed to express myself often.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: That's why I ended up having a deep connection in music and when I would sing I was able to have an actual emotional release and my words because my words and my actions were often used as weapons against me by my parents, you know.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: So when I was alone in my room, I, you know, I could sit there and listen to music and just kind of like lit it all out, you know, and that helped me a lot.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: What about therapy as a, as a child and I know there's been some therapies in adult, We'll go there in a second but as a child, did you ever go to therapy?
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Your mom finds you laying in the street.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Um, your mom has ideas that maybe there's something going on between you and dad, because you know she's found the journal and other people have spoke to her and that.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Did you ever seek therapy as a young adult?
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: And let's say that pre-disclosure.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Did you ever seek therapy?
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, my mother, because I was acting out a little bit.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Most of the time I try to be a good kid, but sometimes I have my moments, I'm human.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: But my mom, she made me go to a psychologist.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: I remember her name.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: She was rita stratton and she was a christian, um counselor, um, because my at the time, my parents, we were still going to um church, um, she was an older woman, I remember, but she was really kind, um, and I started to open up to her a little bit and was trying to explain to her why I was afraid to open up to my mom and how she would make me feel, because I was too terrified to say anything about my dad yet.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: But I figured maybe I could open up about my mom and I could tell my mom, maybe you know, kind of go from there.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And Rita had my mother come into the room and she made me tell my mom that I was afraid to talk to her and how I felt.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: And at first my mother was fine because she was sitting there on the couch.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: But the moment that we stepped out of the office and we were in the hallway, I remember we're walking towards the elevator.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: All my mother did was mock me and like, belittled me while walking to the elevator, saying things like oh, boo hoo, run and cry to Rita.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Oh, you have it so bad, I'm such a terrible mom, you're so afraid to talk to me, like things like that, you know.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: So the next two times that I went to counseling and saw Rita, I told her what she wanted to hear, that everything was fine, it was great.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: You know that I was talking to my mom now.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: You know stuff like that and and so because of that, there was no more counseling.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: You know, because of this, you there was, there was no more counseling.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: You know, um, because of this, you know, seeking counseling was a little bit difficult at first, um, as an adult, because I did um, post um, like conviction of my father.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Let's go down one second.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I got one.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I got a quick, quick follow-up question for you.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Of course I've got a quick follow-up question for you.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Of course your mom was mocking you there.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Did your mom ever show any remorse for the times that you felt she was abusing you or mistreating you?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Was there ever any times of remorse where she came and apologized and said I am a bad mom, I'm sorry, anything like that?
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: No, never.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: What about with your dad after or during the sexual abuse cycle?
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Was there ever any remorse with your father?
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And if so, what did that look like?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Or did he ever?
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: apologize.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the one thing I struggle with the most, after my father would come into my room at night and he would abuse me.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Um, after kind of like the the high of whatever happened after he was gratified.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of wore off for him.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Um, he would.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: He would begin to cry and sob and he would try to apologize to me for what he'd just done to me and he'd beg for forgiveness.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: He would also make me swear to never tell anyone what was happening and he would tell me what would happen to him if he ever went to jail.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: He told me to never speak about it.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: You know, essentially, take my grave or talk about it once he was dead and I would have to hold this man who had just assaulted me in the most damaging of ways and I would have to coddle him sorry, I'm getting a little emotional and I'd have to tell him you know, it's okay, it's okay, I'm fine, you know what you're doing, I'm fine, it's okay.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Um, he would ask me, he'd say things like I didn't make you do anything you didn't want to do, did I?
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Um, and I'd again, I would have to lie to him, um, and continue to hold him as he cried, like onto my chest, and I would say what he wanted to hear and I would lie, I'd say stupid things like like I wanted it and it's okay, and and he would apologize to me for being a weak man, um, and I, and I lied, and I did all this out of like self-preservation, because, knowing what he is capable of and the punishments that would follow if I didn't say what he wanted, I feared what he would do to me next, like, how else could he hurt me any worse?
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: You know, um, I felt like the next level of harm that he could have done to me was to be either to kill me or to hurt my siblings, like like he would was hurting me.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: And if he killed me, um, that was like a permanent, permanent silence.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: You know, there was no way to protect anyone, there was no way for me to tell anybody what was going on, and that was really hard for me to move past.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: No way for you to protect anyone.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Are you talking about you taking the abuse from your father to protect your sister?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that last week.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Is that what you're talking about?
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, because that's what I did.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I purposefully sacrificed myself, and I would perform how he wanted me to, and I would act as though it was something that I wanted, in order to prevent him from going and abusing my sister.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Instead, he would come to me and abuse me instead.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Was there ever any self blame or self shame during this process?
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, absolutely, Can you?
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: explain that a little bit.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean cause the fact that, like Can you explain that a little bit?
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean because the fact that like I was so conflicted with it because obviously I did not want these things, you know, and I'm lying.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: I'm lying to my father about what he's doing to me and how it's making me feel I'm not expressing what I really think and feel in the moment.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Um, and I'm, but at the same time too, like I just knew deep down inside that I had to, I had to protect her, you know, and that it was okay because I had already gone through it.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: You know, um, that's kind of how what I had to say to myself where I didn't lose my mind, um, and I would make sure that sometimes I would.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Just the quicker it got over with, you know, the easier it was, kind of a thing and, um, yeah, it was just that was really hard.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: There was another victim uh slash survivor that I dealt with in my career, and she mentioned that one of the reasons she wouldn't kill herself in a similar situation is because if she was dead, then there would be nobody to especially, you know, to take the abuse to protect the others.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Did you ever have those feelings?
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely yeah.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: What I'm hearing is, and in doing what I did for so long and speaking to so many people, and one of the messages that I really want to get out of this podcast to people that are listening to this is whether you've been a victim yourself or whether you know a victim.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: The chances are very, very good that something in here can resonate and real and you can relate with.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Now, if you found yourself at this point in the episode not being able to relate to being a victim of abuse sexual, physical, mental abandonment, betrayal, thoughts of suicide, emotional domestic violence, cycles that is the abuse, then the apology, then the crying, then the abuse, the apology and the crying, the internal family struggles of a family falling apart and the dynamics.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: If you can't relate to anger and rage within a family, then I mean you're pretty awesome.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: If you can't relate to any of those things in this podcast, then you've got a very, very good life.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: But chances are and that's said tongue in cheek chances are you can relate to some of this and that's what I think.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: The strength that Ashley is showing tonight and in this podcast is just discussing this, getting out in the open.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: This show is not about me, but I can tell you I have had the self-blame and shame, which is a story that nobody on this podcast has heard yet.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I understand that on this podcast has heard yet I understand that I have been in the woods with a gun in my mouth June 13, 2012, because depression was so much, and I'm almost guessing that many of you listening can relate to something in this podcast.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: And you're not alone If you're on that path of potential suicide or depression, or your world, what you knew yesterday is completely turned upside down today.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: No, that you know, and we've heard this since we're in the fifth grade.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Take three deep breaths and you know suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I think if you take a look at Ashley's story and all the shit that she went through to be on the other side, I mean, it's just proof that healing can exist.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: And, ashley, you said something a second ago.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I want to go back and dive into a little bit.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about church and faith.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: You mentioned church a few minutes ago.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Are you still?
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: It sounds like at some point you were active in the church.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Are you still active in the church?
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Do you still consider yourself a Christian or a believer?
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I still consider myself a Christian.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, I do have a little church in Prineville.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: I was going there quite frequently, but I haven't been going there as often.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So in that walk in faith, did this?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Was that ever tried?
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Was there ever any questioning as to God?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Why me?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: And was there ever a fallout with your relationship with God or anger towards God, anything like that?
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely All the time I would question and ask why, like why?
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: I don't understand why.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Why is this happening?
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Why are you allowing this to happen to me?
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: You know, and I even had people who would say things like well, there is God, why would he let you know?
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: And and thing is like, eventually I came.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: I know that God was there with me throughout all of it.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: I can't really explain it to you very well, but I know that he was there and I remember when I was a kid oh, this is just coming to my remembrance right now we had gotten back from church and I was in my room and I was praying and I was asking God why, why does my dad do this to me?
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: And I had this little vision in my head of it was my father's heart and Jesus wanted to heal him and touch his heart, and it was ugly and it had scars on it and everything.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: There's multiple scars, you know, and Jesus tried to heal his heart and touch his heart and healed all the other scars, but there was one big scar that was still in his heart that he wouldn't allow him to to to heal you know and I, and because I realized that we have that freedom of will and choice and stuff you know, and and I realized you know that, like you can't choose sometimes what happens to you in life, but I can choose how I'm going to respond and be about it.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: You know, um, but but yeah, but I, I definitely knew that God was there the whole time.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: So you can choose how you can respond to things.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Um, you mentioned last week that you were concerned about when your dad gets out of jail.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Uh, and you know that day coming at some point in the future.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, what are your thoughts on forgiveness with your dad?
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: I've really really struggled with that.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: I am human and I definitely fall short, so I can forgive him for being a man.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: I can forgive him for for being a weak man Um, but that being said, I can never forget what he did to me for all of those years.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: You know like it's, it's something that will.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: It will always be there.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: You know it will.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: It will never go away.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: But I am not going to allow him to ever have that power, that control over me, ever again, and I am going to be the one who dictates the future and how my life looks at this point um, go ahead, go ahead oh no.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Do you see a life in your future with him in it?
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Do you see you guys having a relationship at some point in the future?
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: No, I don't.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: I just know that I could never trust, you know, because of everything.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: And I know it probably would be good for me to forget him a bit more.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: But your actions because I've been so observant my whole life actions speak so much louder to me than your words and what you can tell me.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: You know and like what you do, that's what I trust, that's what I see, and knowing what he has done and how he is, I just I'm not at that point yet in my walk and that's okay, okay.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: God is working.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know God will work on you and whether you ever get there or not.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't expect you to have a full answer, but I just wanted to throw it out there Just kind of see what your thoughts were.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Sometimes, you know, people in that situation like I could never forgive.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I could never forgive him for what he did.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, I won't forget, I won't forgive, and there's no way in hell.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: There's a relationship, you know, and I did.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear that in your answer, Um, and the fact that you said that God's still working on you and there's still you know you're not that far on your walk Um, that just speaks testaments to your faith, so that's pretty awesome.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the healing side of life.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: So this all happened.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: We're going to put the past behind us.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: All the negative is behind us.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Let's look towards the future.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: What is life like now on the other side?
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: The trial is over.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: It's all yesterday, Um, and you're trying to move on and pick up the pieces.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: What does that look like for you?
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Tell me about the positive stuff you got going on.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Where are you at there.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: So my stress level extremely diminished.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Like almost completely gone.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, I still have stress in life like normal things though, like worrying about your bills or something like that, but not having that constant fear of you know the bear around the corner kind of a thing.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: Sure, I don't have that anymore.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Um, I have a peace now.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: That is just incredible because I know where he is, he's's locked up and everything.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: I'm safe, you know, and I have actual happiness now.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Like I could fake, because that's the thing people when they're depressed and they're suicidal but at least I think they don't fake being depressed and being sad, they fake being happy.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: People act as if they're okay and everything is just fine, you know, and stuff like that, and then the unimaginable happens, you know, they make that permanent end to that situation.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: My life is so much more fulfilled now than it was beforehand.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: What about your self-worth value?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: That kind of stuff is.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Is that stuff I know?
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Is that stuff replenished and back?
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: I had zero self-worth value or esteem prior.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: I had, and the way that I spoke to myself was so negative.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Now I speak love into myself and my life.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: You know, I speak more positive to myself and then I get, I allow myself grace because I have good and I have bad days.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: You know, healing is never linear.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: We have our ups, we have our downs and I've noticed now that if I ever begin to feel like I'm less than then, I allow myself that grace for feeling that way, I acknowledge it, and then I remind myself how far I have come and then how much further I have to go and the life that I have, that's beautiful and is there and waiting for me, that I have, that's beautiful and is there and waiting for me.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: So one of the things we spoke about was relationships, and it was difficult for you to maintain any relationship during that period of your life.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I understand you're married now, correct?
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Do you think that would have?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Do you think that would have ever happened if you didn't come to the table with all of this?
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: Never, never, never, never in a thousand years it would ever happen.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: Because I never could trust and know that that person would never hurt my children the way that my father had hurt me, you know.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: And I never would have been able to get past that point to allow myself to even date or to meet anybody.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, my husband and I we met working at the hospital together.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Um, we both worked at saint charles in bed, um, he was a security guard and, uh, I worked on the third floor on north vernero working night shift, you know, and, um, we talked for like a year before we actually, like, really started dating.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: And once I really got to know him and who he was, I was, I was open with him about my history and my views and I would have never been able to be like that if I wouldn't have gone to counseling, if I wouldn't have had the talk therapy that I had, you know to, to be able to, um, talk in a healthy manner about this with him.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: You know, you know how is um I mean just my observations you, you lost a lot of weight between the time, yeah, between the time that I first met you and now you've lost a lot of weight.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Between the time, yeah, between the time that I first met you and now you've lost a lot of weight.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: You came in, uh, I mean literally spineless.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Um, you had a spine and you had the internal fortitude to push through and do it was right, but I shouldn't say spineless, I should say you had no self esteem, no self worth.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: You were willing to tell the truth and tell the story, but you didn't feel like you were even value, having a value for me to listen to you or pay attention.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Um, what are they even going to believe me?
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: That's a statement of low self-worth and low, low value.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And your, your world, just seems completely different.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: And the one thing that sticks out about you versus anybody else in my world, my professional world, is just that turnaround.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I have never seen that before.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Um, I mean, what can you say about that?
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Your mindset, physical health, mental health, that stuff, what can you say about that?
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Um, I noticed, once I changed that mindset with, like, how I spoke to myself out of love, you know, and how I gave myself grace and forgiveness, that once my mental health started to change, so did my physical health, my self-worth and my self-value, because I am worth it.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: I am worthy.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: I am, you know, always deserving of wonderful and beautiful things, you know, including my health, you know, and I didn't want to continue to punish myself, essentially by continuing to be so unhealthy, you know.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: And it just made a world of difference for me.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the proof is in the pudding.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: You're a completely different person sitting in front of me today than you were.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: That I met, you know, in 2015.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: And that turnaround I mean I've told that story without saying your name.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I've told your story a thousand times since then, with other victims who are sitting there wondering if they're ever going to get through it, if there's ever going to be sunshine tomorrow.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I've used you and your example for a lot of other victims in my career, so I just thank you for being that opportunity for me.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: If there you are, you're on the other side, you're in a better place.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: God's not done working on you, but you're kind of looking down that road of life and the other people who are listening to this, who may be in a similar situation, might be able to relate, and maybe not as far along as you.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: What are some?
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: things you could say to them to give them hope, faith and assurance or peace that life is going to be okay down the road.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: I want them to know that they're not alone for sure, because mostly I felt absolutely isolated and you have that strength within you, just like how I have that strength.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: I just didn't know it at the time.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Um, and if they are looking at suicide, it is a permanent end to what can be a temporary situation, you know, and, and when you do go down that path, it's it like a grenade exploding.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: In the aftermath, those who are closest to you are left profoundly wounded, and I want to recognize that each situation is completely unique.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Being informed doesn't make those emotions disappear immediately, but over time, with love from others and for yourself, it is possible to thrive, not just survive, whether that, whatever that looks like for you, is just as unique as you are, that you can thrive and have a beautiful life, and there are so many more things to look forward to and that bring you genuinely happiness and joy, um, that you would never know.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: If you unfortunately went down that path and chose to make that ending, I would have never known my husband, I would have never gotten healthy.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: I would have never, you know, I would have missed out on so many beautiful things.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Did you ever have trouble forgiving yourself after all this?
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely I did.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: I had a lot of self-blame and shame.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Shame was huge and it took me a while to learn that I deserve to be gentle with myself when I did make mistakes, because I would be pretty hard on myself.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: And eventually I realized that my old life needed to crumble and die away in order for me to to have my new life, if that makes any sense.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: It just kind of clicked for me, um, like my life was falling apart at one point in time, but the reason for that is because my new life was waiting for me.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like baptism.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, oh my gosh, yes, yeah, there you go.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Kind of like baptism, isn't it?
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you said something to me earlier when we were talking offline.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: You said that you had to decide that you were no longer going to allow your father to hold power over you and that you were going to get back in control of your life.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Oh yes.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: And I thought that was pretty powerful.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes, you know all of my sex abuse victims that have to come in and I'm sure I said it to you as well is, at some point in history, somebody took away your power and control.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: There was a brief moment in time, a snapshot in time, where you were thinking no, no, no, and they forced something upon you and took away your ability to make a decision to protect yourself and your body, and I am going to give that back to you.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: You are in control of this, not me.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: We're going to go at the pace that you want to go.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: We're going to answer the questions that you want to answer, and we may or may not get those done today.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: It may take 15 meetings, and that's okay because we're going at your pace, your tempo.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: You're in control of this.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: And while I said that to people, I truly meant it, but oftentimes it wasn't believed and I'm seeing on the other side of life where you know you took that and ran with it and that's pretty awesome.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: So I'm very thankful for where you are.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: It's pretty cool.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: A minute ago, you said that your favorite verse was a first Corinthians, the love passage.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: If you are, it's pretty cool.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: A minute ago, you said that your favorite verse was first Corinthians, the love passage, if you will, and I think that really comes out in your story.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Even when we spoke about your dad and the abuser and I asked about your forgiveness, and it wasn't hell, no, it was God's not there with me yet and that's pretty awesome.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you want to say to the viewers and to the listeners before we end this episode?
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: I want people to know also that there's no shame in seeking help with your mental health.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: Your feelings are valid, you are worthy, you are deserving, you deserve love.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: You know there's just so many wonderful things that if I would have listened to that shame and that doubt, you know, and that guilt that I never, I never would have what I have now, you know.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: I just want people to know that horrible things can happen and you don't have that control, but you can control how you're going to be about it in the future and the direction that you want your life to go, though it may not seem like it in the moment.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Allow yourself that grace, give yourself that time and with time it will come.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Do you have a kitty in the background?
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Don't be sorry, it's beautiful I had to kick her out because she was sitting on my keyboard.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: It's all good.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you guys so much, and Ashley, thank you so much for coming back on and sharing the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say, uh with you know, not only the things you wanted to explain about the situational awareness that you wanted people to have, but also about the healing and the afterlife.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Um, and everything you described sounded a lot like a baptism and faith, and I can see God in you.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: So that's pretty cool.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Do you ever consider you ever consider you talked about wanting to die to be an angel?
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Do you ever consider you're kind of an angel now by protecting your sister for all those years?
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: So I mean, my husband's told me that too, cause, like he's, like I am in awe of you, you know, and he's told me a lot of things like that, but yeah, he is clearly brilliant, clearly brilliant, so all right.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, that is the murders to music podcast.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Join us again next week for another episode.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: We love you, we thank you, apple and your Spotify reviews.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Give those five-star reviews, leave some comments.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Email address murders2music at gmailcom and all of your emails will get to Ashley.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, that is the Murders to Music podcast.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: You put your hands where they don't belong.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: And now her innocence is dead and gone.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: She feels dirty.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: She feels ashamed.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Because of you, she's forever changed.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Too afraid to tell someone your mind is a whale Just used a gun.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: She cries for Jesus To ease the pain.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Because of you, she's forever changed.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Can't you just leave the child alone?
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I can hear the angels in heaven.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Angels in heaven.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, god was watching and he knows your name.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Because of you, she's forever changed.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Changed Whether you're a stranger or flesh and blood.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: A common day you face that judge, you can beg for mercy, but the truth remains.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Because of you, she's forever changed.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Can't you just leave the child alone?
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Can't you just leave the child alone?
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I can hear the angels in heaven moan.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: God was watching and he knows your name.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Because of you, she's forever changed.