Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 321 - The Basement Blunder

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 321 - The Basement Blunder · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he's up to. It's picking me
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: like chicken, shocking me like corn, storing me like an ice.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Do I mean?
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I don't do sit ups, I don't do chill ups.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: I don't do nothing but get up through them guts
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: with my jahns on.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Bro, the hell did you talk about it? Then?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Anybody?
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: I'm letting all y'all know my exercise is ming you
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: thigh brother.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Believe that, Bro, it's all about.
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: It years up to bet your bees shoke beet and
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: it's your bee man and tim mean and jo be snuck.
• 0:47
  Speaker 5: Then you'll rad I'm I mean, Then your be.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: Jow bees and it's gonna be mean and I'm mean,
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: and show be slipt.
• 0:55
  Speaker 5: Me showing a d Yeah, seldom Joe kill Lee.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And here we go you're muted.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: M hm. Surprise surprise, Joe, we have a new intro
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: song and no surprise, no surprise.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I like it the uh Joe and say it. Here
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: we go. I love it first time hearing that.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: By the way, Yes, Roger. Roger worked very quickly on
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: getting that new intro to me once requested, So props
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: out to Lee. Harold Oswald, right, we're getting against that
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: new music. Uh, welcome into the show, folks. This is
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the Longoming Podcast, Episode number three hundred and twenty one,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: The Basement Blunder. You know, sometimes, Joe, you got to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: get a little creative with these YouTube titles, because you know,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: when you talk about a sensitive subject like the one
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: we're going to hit tonight, you gotta get a little creative.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I can't just put up there what I want to
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: put up there. But we do have a special guest
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: with us tonight. He's a JFK researcher and author coming
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: to us live and living color and from his car
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: apparently from down under. Paul Abbott is with us. He
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: is the author of the new book Death to Justice
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Right the Shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald and it is
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: a thick boy. It is thick, dick and juicy. So
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: welcome Paul to the show. How you doing, sir, Yeah?
• 2:53
  Speaker 6: Good, thanks, Rob, John, good to baby with you both.
• 2:55
  Speaker 6: That's Rod's enjoyed your show, and yeah, it's great to
• 2:59
  Speaker 6: any opportunity need to talk with like minded JFK assassination
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: researchers and enthusiasts is fantastic. So great to be with you.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're happy to have you here. And one thing
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: that I did not know, but I have heard you
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: on a couple other podcasts. You did an index to
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the Garrison files. Is that true?
• 3:24
  Speaker 6: I did, yes, and that's actually what instigated this book.
• 3:28
  Speaker 6: So what I did was I sourced the remaining Garrison
• 3:33
  Speaker 6: folders of the files from Lenosanek, and I just I
• 3:39
  Speaker 6: scanned through them. I didn't read them word for word.
• 3:42
  Speaker 6: It was literally I just started. How it started was
• 3:47
  Speaker 6: trying to make sense of all these different reports and
• 3:52
  Speaker 6: things are so much in their thirteen thousand pages, and
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: I just thought this wouldn't it wouldn't it be so
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: much easier if that there was there was an indie
• 4:00
  Speaker 6: to all these names and kind of like Forrest Gump.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: Once I started, I just kept running, and you know,
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: I ended up turning out a spreadsheet that was I
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: think fourteen has fourteen thousand lines just of names, general
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: context to help anyone that's interested in Garrison with how
• 4:23
  Speaker 6: much or how little he was on the right track
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: during his investigation. And probably the biggest takeaway for me
• 4:32
  Speaker 6: with that was that he never stopped looking. You know,
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: these are his own personal records and right up until
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: his death, and obviously his involvement with the JFK film.
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: He was incredible remaining incredibly interested in obviously the assassination
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: of President Kennedy, but a lot of a lot of
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: other topics that orbited around it as well. So I'd
• 4:54
  Speaker 6: recommend yet getting the files. They're publicly available as well.
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: But if you're that bit more interested in mind action,
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: hopefully distill it down for you.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: You can somebody meaning me find it.
• 5:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So so it's on my substack. I've got a
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: link to it on my substack. So that's the.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Way.
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Death to Justice, the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald,
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: I've got a link on there and that that will
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: take you to refer you to black Op Radio and
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: Kennedy's and King where the index itself is based. So
• 5:34
  Speaker 6: absolutely check it out. I did it for free, I don't.
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: I wanted to help other researchers and maybe dispel a
• 5:42
  Speaker 6: few myths about how effective or ineffective Garrison's investigation was. Well,
• 5:48
  Speaker 6: let's let's look at his materials, and this is a
• 5:52
  Speaker 6: way to make it a bit easier.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you see that kind of lead your path
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: to writing this book. How do you get from the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Garrison investigation to Ruby killing Oswald.
• 6:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, in one of the folders in within the
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: in this cabinet of documentation that Garrison had was literally
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: named after the Dallas investigation into the shooting. Now very
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: craftily they called it. Of course, this was done in
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: within about two or three weeks after Oswald's shooting. It
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: was called Investigation into the Security regarding Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: You know, so their own investigation and I'm not not
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: sure if that's word for word, but they're the entitle
• 6:40
  Speaker 6: of their investigation didn't even didn't have the word shooting
• 6:44
  Speaker 6: in it. You know, it was all about the security.
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: So just reading through these these all all of the
• 6:53
  Speaker 6: witness statements, it just seemed that all all the Dallas
• 6:56
  Speaker 6: police officers that gave witness statements, it was all very
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: cookie cutter. It was all very you know, nothing to
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: see here. I didn't know Jack Ruby, and just starting
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: to compare those statements with things that people had told
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: the Warren Commission a few months later, when the Warren
• 7:14
  Speaker 6: Commission went down to Dallas. As of April nineteen sixty four,
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: things didn't line up. You know, when we held statements
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: that that witnesses gave. There was inconsistencies even with people's
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: own accounts, so I just thought, surely there's It just
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: made me look a little bit further, and that's where
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: it started. I just collected all these statements and I
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: could see some really interesting little narratives and stories that
• 7:46
  Speaker 6: had never been covered. You know, the HCA came close
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: with its own thirty five page I think it was
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: a summary of oswald shooting in nineteen seventy eight, but
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: even then they stopped very short. They for instance, gave
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: four scenarios of how Jack Ruby could have entered the
• 8:08
  Speaker 6: basement to and do so perfectly in time to obviously
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: be able to shoot Oswald as he was brought out.
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: But that's as far as they went. And it's kind
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: of apart from a few researchers, no one had really
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: ever delved into the conditions of Dallas City Hall. And
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: as I uncover in my book, and it's all backed
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: by statements, there are so many interesting little stories that
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: may or may not have any bearing on the ultimate
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: outcome of obviously as well being killed on live television.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now, something just slightly off topic. I wanted to
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: ask you because I remember some years ago, and I
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: wish I still had the photo comparison, but I came
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: across it looks like an employee of one of the
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: one of the camera fons radio station or TV station.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: But they were conducting and they had to be a
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: TV station because they were conducting an interview. Somebody was
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: And this is you know, sometime in the later coverage
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: of course after you know, right after the assassination, sometime
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: that weekend, and you can see a guy sitting at
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: the desk that looks a hell of a lot like
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Jack Ruby. And but it's not Jack Ruby, but it
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: really looks like him. It may be like his twin
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: brother pretty much. And that always intrigued me that there
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: could have been an actual newsperson who resembled Jack Ruby
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: like that, you know what I mean?
• 9:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's I don't know what you man. And there's
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: there's another photograph which well it's actually a still from
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: from camera footage in the hallway of the third floor.
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: This this person was always being purported as Jack Ruby
• 9:58
  Speaker 6: in the in the in amongst all the action there.
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: And I think it was on Saturday night, and there's
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: no doubt that Ruby was He did go into Dallas
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: City Hall. He did try entering the outer office of
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: the Home Scene Robbery Bureau where Ruby Oswald was being interrogated.
• 10:19
  Speaker 6: There's no doubt about that. He even broken an interview
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: for kr LD, one of the local radio stations, with
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: Henry Wade, and you can actually listen to that on YouTube.
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: So there's no doubt that Ruby was there. But there
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: are I know what you mean, there are photographs of
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: people that have always been purported as being Ruby, but
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: it wasn't him. And there was also a sighting an
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: alleged siding of Jack Ruby outside City Hall as early
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: as eight am on Sunday, November the twenty fourth. The
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: three newsmen that were out in the control the truck,
• 11:02
  Speaker 6: you know, the sound operators and the like, they they
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: identified a man that only well after the fact did
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: they say it was Jack Ruby. But the problem was
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: they described this man as wearing crumpled suit and he
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: looked he had pretty scruffy attire, like he basically slept
• 11:21
  Speaker 6: in his suit. Anyone that knew Jack Ruby knew that
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: he was a meticulous stresser, you know, he was always
• 11:28
  Speaker 6: very well presented, apparently lived in pretty messy conditions at home.
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: But he always presented him very well. So, yeah, there's
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: there's little little little nuggets throughout the story of Dallas
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: City Hall that weekend of alleged Ruby sightings, for sure.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha? Yeah, I mean he seemed to be if
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: you could by the official store, you know, really mister
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Johnny on the spot, showing up at just the right minute.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: You know. So when we're talking about the transfer, going
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to that a little bit and kind of take us
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: through the process of when the transfer was actually supposed
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: to happen and why it was pushed back. I can't
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: understand that a little bit more.
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, it could have actually happened as early as
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: Friday night technically when when Oswald was charged for the
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: Tippet murder. Per Dallas statutes, he could have been taken
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: a county jail as early as then. But of course
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: Fritz and his detectives were still investigating obviously another homicide
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: in the Kennedy shooting. So it was much more convenient
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: and that's understandable to keep Oswald at City Hall rather
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: than moving back and forth and witness statements, hauling those
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: back and forth.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: It's very unprecedented situation, right, So there was president for
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: someone that killed the president and what you could do
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: with him.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: And you know that they let all these damn press people,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: so many press people, you know, in the police headquarters
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: in city Hall like that. That's insane to me. That
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: would never happen today.
• 13:12
  Speaker 6: You know, that was unprecedented as well. But there's a
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: there was an interesting part in the final Warren Report,
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: which was basically a statement that Chief Curry had issued
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: out to all of Dallas Police. I think it was
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: I think it was in February of the nineteen sixty
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: two or maybe even a little bit earlier, when he
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: came into his the officer's chief to basically order all
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: Dallas Police to where possible to give the press as
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: much access to do their jobs, to report as possible.
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: So really it reads as if the Dallas Police were
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: using the media as their pr you know, so if
• 13:59
  Speaker 6: we give the report, we give media access, they're going
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: to give favorable coverage. So it was actually systemic, the
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: the the the obedience and the regard from the top
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: down to just let the press in and and be
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: scene to be treating Oswald well, even though they hauled him,
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: you know, in that that press conference, and yeah, that's
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: a funny one as well. I'll get back to the transfer.
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: But the press conference is strange because that was that
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: was a spur of the moment decision that was between
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: Henry Wade and Curry, and Curry said, ask the press, well,
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: if you want to see Oswald, we can bring him
• 14:37
  Speaker 6: down if you want. It was just meant to be
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: Henry Wade giving giving an update on the charges apparently
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: that had just been laid on Oswald.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: But he was sitting duck right there at that press conference,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 14:53
  Speaker 6: Apparently Ruby was in the right there by the doorway
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: as Oswald was. That that was what had been brought
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: in and and then let out. Of course we don't
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: see footage. There is that photograph of Ruby kind of
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: hunching down more towards the back of the the press
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: conference room that was in the basement of City Hall.
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: But it's hard to substantiate if that was, you know,
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: when exactly that was that was taken, because obviously there
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: are a number of press conferences over that weekend, but
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: that the transfer itself generally is handled by the Sheriff's department.
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: So come to Saturday afternoon, the twenty third, Chief Curry
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: is going to Captain Fritz and saying, you know, when
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: are you going to be finished with Oswald? I have
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: to tell the press. I have to give them something
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: in terms of when he's going to be moved, because
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: that's when the questions started to started to come about
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: how long I was, what would be around for in
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: the city hall. So Curry was asking if he'd be
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: ready at four o'clock that afternoon, and Fritz said no,
• 16:01
  Speaker 6: I don't think so it came to about six o'clock
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: and that's when Curry told press that told the media
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: that Oswald would be transferred at ten o'clock the Sunday morning. Now,
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: over the years that has kind of evolved into if
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: you're here by ten o'clock in the morning, you won't
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: have missed anything. But I uncovered I'd reference in my
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: book a couple of reporters saying no, it was ten o'clock.
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: Seth Canter is a good example. He's probably one of
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: the more well known reporters there at the time. He
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: wrote a couple of excellent books on Ruby. In later
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: years he said that he actually slept in and woke
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: up at I think twenty past ten that Sunday morning
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: and thought, oh, nosed, I've missed the transfer. I'll go
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: down to City Hall anyway, And when he got there,
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: he was surprised to see that obviously the transfer hadn't
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: taken place. So that kind of lets you know that
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: ten o'clock was the time that the the transfer was
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: intended to take place. But the thing was there were
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: there were apparently threats that that were phoned in that
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: that over overnight, you know, the very early Sunday morning actually,
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: And I take a bit of time just to cover
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: off on that in the book because I assume you
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: guys know about Billy Grammar. Yeah, Billy Grammar.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: It was it was Jack Ruby that called in the threat.
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: Right, yeah, well that's what he said. And again he
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: only said that after the fact, so that the story
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: was that Billy Grammer, after the shooting said, you know,
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: I took a call from someone saying that, you know, Oswald,
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: if he's transferred, you know, in an armored car, he's
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: actually not going to leave. He's not going to get
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: to the county jail alive. Now, that's that's an interesting
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: detail for Billy Grammer to have it whatever time the
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: call came through, because not even Dallas Police were settled
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: on the whole armored the method of transport for Oswald.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: That doesn't make any sense to me, Like just put
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: him in the bag of a cup car and take
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: him on olver.
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: You know, absolutely well, that's that's what Fritz ultimately had
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: the final say on. You know, an armored car would
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: be much more cumbersome and awkward if there was an attack.
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: But my contention is is that it didn't happen. Billy
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: Grammer didn't take that call because he apparently he wasn't
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: able to identify that the caller is Jack Ruby, even
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: though apparently he had coffee with Jack Ruby on the Saturday.
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: He wasn't able to identify the voice of his friend
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: that he just caught up with. No One else at
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: Dallas Police testified to any statements being phoned in directly
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: by threat makers to the DPD that the word of
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: threat actually came by way of the Sheriff's Department, so
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: Deputy McCoy and the local FBI office, Milt Newsom. So
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: no one ever directly phoned the dp Captain Fraser, who
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: took those calls from the Sheriff's Department and the FBI.
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: There was no other word of someone like Grammar taking
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: a call from a threat. So it just does not
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: line up. And it's convenient that, you know, he said, well,
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: I did fill out an affidavit and gave it to
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: my supervisor, Jesse Curry, apparently never never got the affidavit,
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: didn't know anything about the call. And probably the thing
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: which kind of strikes to Grammar's story the most is
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: the fact that the FBI, they were hot on the
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: trail any kind of linkage they could find between any
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: Dallas Police officers and Jack Ruby very evident on all
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: of their questions. You can literally see there was a
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: template set a list of questions just by reading the statements,
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: and every officer was asked three things. Did you know
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: Jack Ruby? Did you know did you see Jack Ruby
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: in the basement? Did you know of any Dallas Police
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: officers that had ever worked with Jack Ruby? They were
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: like the most consistent questions. So if someone like Billy
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: Grammer actually spoke directly to Jack Ruby in the hour is,
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: twelve hours or however many hours before the actual shooting,
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: the FBI would have been hot all over that they
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: never spoke to Billy Grammer. Billy Grammon was never brought
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: before the Warrant Commission, so completely completely. I just have
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: questions where that's another account where we were in the
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: jfk assassination universe, where we have to take one person's
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: word for it. But anyway, the news of the threats
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: that came through from the sheriff's department in the FBI office,
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: I questioned the validity those as well, because it's in
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: my book, But they seem to have literally come from
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: the FBI. You know, the FBI rang the sheriff's department
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: and said, listen, we've we've received news of or threats
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: of from a committee that you know that I want
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: are going to launch an attack on Oswald when he's
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: transferred there. And then fifteen minutes later, another call comes
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: into the sheriff's department and you know it's it's someone
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: saying the exact same thing. So it's kind of like, well,
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: hang on, was it was it a real call or
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: was was you know, the FBI maybe staging these threats.
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: I just say that because the same person that was
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: communicating to the FBI and the Dallas Police about these
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: threats was the same FBI agent who took the statements
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: of the Sheriff's deputy that spoke with the threat makers,
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: and Captain Frasier at DPD, who only ever heard of
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: word of the threats from the FBI and the Sheriff's department.
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: So it's a bit of a bit of a little
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: rabbit hole that I go go down into my book
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: to basically question how valid there the threats were. There
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: was no doubt that there was crank calls and you know,
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: just people people in the heat of the moment, you know,
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: ringing all and sundry about Oswald. But in terms of
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: an actual committee of one thousand people, I question it.
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: And no one ever saw a large group of angry
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: people gather on the morning of Dallas in the streets.
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: So just one little thing I'd cover off on. But
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: the transfer itself, that was that was still being decided
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: on Sunday morning. You know, Curry breezed into into work
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: that morning at about eight point thirty, was clearly without
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: a kick care in the world. When the threats apparently
• 23:02
  Speaker 6: have been news of them have been threatened, phone into
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: the Dallas Police Department, and Captain Fraser took the calls.
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: He tried to reach Curry. He first rang Captain Fritz
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: at home, and Fritz said, no, that's that's Curry's responsibility.
• 23:16
  Speaker 6: You better speak to him. No one could reach Curry
• 23:20
  Speaker 6: by phone. Apparently his phone lines were out, so it
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: took an officer to actually drive around to his house
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: and let him know about the threats.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: So anyways, allisedly, right, took the phone off the stand.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah nobody can.
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, just like it's you know, any other weekend where
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: you maybe just want to get some sleep and back.
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: I don't know, but it's still there's even even around
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: nine nine thirty, it still hasn't been decided the Sheriff's
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: Department or in this instance, the DPD would transfer Oswald
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: like it's nuts. Curry was heard on the phone to
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: Bill Decker saying, well, if you want us to, we will.
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: So that's clearly when it started to be decided. And
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: that's when in the armored car was was ordered from
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: the Armored Motor Company. And uh yeah, Oswald was kept
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: kept kept kept in interrogations for however long it was
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: until I presume it was known that Jack Ruby was
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: was in the building.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: So and what's the footage, you know, you kind of
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: see will Fritz come out in front or either or
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: he was already out there in the in the basement.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I was just wondering if it was ever clear about
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: who was in charge of the security of that basement,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: and was anybody vetting all of these press people. Yeah,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: so there's actually pressed people, you know.
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So Captain Talbot he was, he was, Uh, he
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: took the initiative in terms of working out where to
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: put patrol officers along. I presumed the most likely way
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: for the armored car to take Oswald, because even at
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: this point it was a guessing game to straight down
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: Elm Street. That's apparently the way it was going to
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: it was going to go down. So anyway, Talbot summoned
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: Patrick Dean to head up being in charge of security
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: of the basement, and with him was James Putnam, but
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: it was ultimately Dean. So Dean corralled about fifteen reserve
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: officers excuse me as allowed of car going by a
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: crowd of reserve officers to start searching the basement. Search
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: of the basement, it was far from a secured and
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: sealed environment because, as I pointed out in my book,
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: there are at least a couple of reporters that witnessed
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: the whole search taking place, and they all of the
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: posse if you like, they literally just it was all
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: done for show. They opened up car trunks and removed
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: some police rifles, shotguns, checked the air conditioning vents and
• 26:17
  Speaker 6: things like that. But ultimately the sub basement level was
• 26:22
  Speaker 6: never sealed. The annexed building that was just presumed as
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: being closed down as it was most weekends, and officers
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: like Roy Vaughan, Bobby Patterson, and Ronald Nelson were put
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: on the most likely entry points of entry for reporters
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: to come in with the orders that only credentialed reporters
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: and police could enter. But the actual search was not
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: at all thorough. It was and I have as a
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: layout in my book, I have serious questions about Patrick
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: Deane because come in the at least the thirty to
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: thirty five minutes before Oswald emerged, Dean did a strange thing.
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: He'd actually posted two reserve officers in the car park
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: of the basement and that's where there were and still
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: our stairs and elevators to the annex building directly above,
• 27:23
  Speaker 6: and these officers were there. They actually helped clear out
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: civilian workers that were just kicking back, standing around just
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: watching the comings and goings. You know, they were completely
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: out of the way. It would have been perfectly feasible
• 27:39
  Speaker 6: for them to stay there. There was no there were
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: no security threat. These were long term porters and maintenance workers.
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: But they were cleared out as well. Anyway, it gets
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: to ten for five and the first of these two
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: reserve officers is redeployed to traffic duty. Then the fifty
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: minutes later the next one. I get that their names
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: were Brock and WHIRLI, but I forget which one was first.
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: But that second one was also redeployed, and that was
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: at the orders of Patrick Dean. Now that what that
• 28:15
  Speaker 6: meant was that there was no one now to take
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: guard of another point of entry into the basement, which
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: is from the annex building directly above. Now that, as
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: I contend in my book, and it's not a it's
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: not a new or controversial controversial theory, Jack Ruby did
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: not enter down the main street ramp. It didn't happen.
• 28:37
  Speaker 6: Did not happen. There were witnesses up there that won.
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: In fact, I think Roy Vaughan knew Jack Ruby as well.
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: Two police officers up there that knew Jack Ruby and
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: never saw him along Main Street, not that far up
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: Main Street. So Ruby did not come down and no
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: one ever saw Jack Ruby walk down all the way
• 28:59
  Speaker 6: down from the street level, down Main Street, down the
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: Main Street ramp into the basement. We have reports of
• 29:07
  Speaker 6: people seeing Ruby at the foot of the ramp and
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: before getting into place, but he.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Doesn't where did he park at?
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: So he parked further up Main Street and it was
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: just just near the Western Union office. I believe he
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: was parked on the street. There was a car.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Park that away from you know.
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: It's the same point. Yeah, it's it's literally the Dallas
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: Police measured it by feet. I think it's about two
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: hundred feet the Western Union Office from from the Main
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: Street ramp. So yeah, Ruby did not come down Main Street.
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: He I contend, as others do, that he came in
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: through a side door of the annex building that Patrick
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: Dean made sure was unlocked, and all Ruby had to
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: do was walk in. He could have gotten to the
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: point of when he shot Oswald completely unassisted. You guys
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: have seen the JFK movie. It shows Ruby being let
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: out of a door by a police officer That didn't
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: even need to happen. It was an emergency exit, so
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: that door did not lock on the inside. Ruby was
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: completely free to come in. Just walk casually across the
• 30:27
  Speaker 6: basement car park, come in, scooted through the railing and
• 30:33
  Speaker 6: get into place. It was easy as that.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just want to clarify for the audience.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: So the original transfer time was ten am. The receipt
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: from Ruby sending was it twenty five dollars to which
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: of his dancers Karen Carlin. Yes, And then the shooting
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: happened four minutes lead at eleven one am local time,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: which does not give him a lot of time. So
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I think I think I heard you mention. He went
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: through the side door, then took an elevator, then stairwell
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to the basement.
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: No, so it was a side door which basically there
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: was an internal fire escape stairway. So only all Ruby
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: need to do was coming through the outer door, walk
• 31:28
  Speaker 6: along a very short corridor, walk across some steps, actually
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: go through the service elevator. There was actually a service
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: door like a back door to the elevator. Walk out
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: through there and round the corner, down one flight of
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: steps and he would have been in place. That would
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: have that would have taken him all of about two minutes.
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: I think he could have been been been there well
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: and truly in time.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course the the narrative is kind of
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: he slept in, he was late, he kind of went
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: went to the police station and kind of it was
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: kind of a coincidence that he arrived just as Lee
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Harvey was was getting transferred out. I don't know personally.
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: Look, there's I think some people have made the mistake
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: that Ruby was signaled to because if you go on
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: Google Maps now, you can still see that that vacant
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: block that separates the building of where the Western Union
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: was at the time, between the NX building and obviously
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: the rest of the City Hall complex. There's very clear
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: vision from from from the NX building now where someone
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: could have looked out of the window and seeing Jack
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: Ruby leave the Western Union office, and that would have
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: it would have been as simple as them walking back
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: and giving the signal for Fritz to finally finish his
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: ongoing questions, because he was clearly stalling that morning, clearly stalling,
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: and it would have it would have been as simple
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: as a signal to basically mean Ruby's on his way,
• 33:16
  Speaker 6: let's start the transfer. So Ruby wasn't signaled he was
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: the signal.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And and one question I have on the signal,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: do you think and I've heard this said before, do
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: you think the honk from the transfer car the armored
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: truck could have caught possibly been a signal to Ruby
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: that Lee was.
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's an interesting it's it's a tricky That's
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: another very contentious one as well, because traction. Yeah, if
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: you if you watch there's there's really good footage and
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: it's on my own YouTube channel as well now, but
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: there's there's a good twenty minutes worth of raw footage
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: of the basement and you can actually see I refer
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: to it a lot in my book because it's great
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: for tracking people's movements and seeing who's who and doing
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: what in the basement before Oswald's brought out. But what
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: you hear quite often in that footage is that same
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: car honk. I don't I actually don't think it was
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: the armored car. I think it was because there were
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: there were two plane plane non credentialed police cars that
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: were going to take Oswald to the county jail. At
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: the last minute. When when we hear those those those honks.
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: The testimony from one of the police officers behind the
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: wheel of one of those cars was I was surrounded
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: by press. I couldn't see. I didn't want to run
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: anybody over. So I think it could be as simple
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: and as innocent as that. Because if you watch when
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: when Fritz comes out, he looked around, he scans that
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: whole scene.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: You can see it's in his hand.
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: Fritz's hand.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, look at Fritz's hand. As soon as he
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: goes around, the gun is in his hand.
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: Before Yeah, okay, Well, I don't think Ruby needed any
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: kind of signal because he could actually he had pretty
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: even though he was behind Blackie Harrison, who was a
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: pretty big guy. He was the cigar chomping cop that
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: you see in the Bob Jackson fight. Ruby actually could
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: he I don't think he would have needed a signal.
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: Like there was a nice big opening for Oswald to
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: be led out, and of course Fritz himself left a
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: big Yeah there you go, a big five foot six
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: foot gap in front of Oswald.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: And overcoat there right, no so black.
• 36:01
  Speaker 6: Black Yeah, just the two hands that you see at
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: the far right, that's Blackie Harrison.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Blackie with the cigar in his mouth.
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that'd be the Bob Jackson photograph. That's that's the
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: that's now the Frank Johnston photograph. That one there, Rob
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: that was always touted as the moment that Oswald recognized Ruby.
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure about that either, because if you look
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: at that other one, I think it's just Oswald looking
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: to Ike Pappus, who asked the question, do you have
• 36:35
  Speaker 6: anything to say? Oh, yep, you're so go. So that's
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: the Jack Bears photograph that we've we've got on the
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: camera there.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a lot of angles.
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, But that's the scary thing. There was more
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: footage and more photographs taken that never surfaced.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: You would think, you know, that if he saw Jack
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Ruby in the crowd, that he would be watching Jack Ruby,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: you know, like Ray here he's looking forward, you know,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: you see you don't you see what's coming?
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: You know what I mean if you zoom out on
• 37:08
  Speaker 6: this photo, was pointing out something else. That's very interesting. Actually, Okay,
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: there's a microphone that's actually seen hanging hanging down. This
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: is the most commonly scene cropped version, but you had
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: it up before when you first bought these photographs up.
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: You could actually see a m hm.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think.
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: So I lost you there. So that's the Bob Jackson
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: photograph there. Now there's no no microphone that's that that
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: can be seen hanging down from the rafters. There's Blackie
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: Harrison at the far right. Yeah, but there's another photograph
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: where there is a microphone hanging down and it's the
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: expanded version of this. There it is it. So see
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: that microphone there. Interesting that it's not in the Bob
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: Jackson photograph. Eight.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: No, I thought it was visible. He was holding it
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: in the two pictures before.
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: No, I'm talking about hanging down from the roof at
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: the top the that's not in the Bob Jackson photograph. Interest,
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: But that microphone is very evident in other footage. So
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: the microphone was no doubt there, but it's not in
• 38:37
  Speaker 6: the Bob Jackson photograph. So well, what I wanted to
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: do with writing this book was just lay out all
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: the things that were just in plain sight that just
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: do not add up, never added up in the Oswald shooting.
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: There's so much more to it, you know when we
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: look at the photographs and things like that, But it's not.
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: It was always assumed as an open and shutcase. But
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: the guys that there's just so much more to it.
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: There were forty six members of the press in the basement,
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: forty six members that I account for. And that's not
• 39:16
  Speaker 6: you know, plucking names out of the air. That is
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: using each other's statements to say that Peggy Simpson was
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: present and Gladwin Hill was present. And I think that's
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: something that most people don't know is how many members
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: of the media were there. Yet we have we still
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: have so many questions hanging.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is ironic, isn't it. And I wanted to
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: highlight this comment because I actually had the only document
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: I have prepared here and if you can't read it, Paul,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I will show it. But the question for a big
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: bag Josh is Sheba was in the car and s
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the dog. And I looked into this because I we
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: had covered it on another show and I wasn't really
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: sure what was going on. And hold on one second
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: as I bring this up, but I found a statement
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: from Antony Andrew Armstrong and also from George Senator about Sheba.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: And why is this important is because of course the
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: lone nut narrative that Ruby would have never left his
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: dog in the car if he knew he was going
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: to do this, right, So therefore it was, you know, random.
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: It was to give an alibi for for spontaneity and
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: and not premeditation, which which it was clearly premeditated. But
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: I think it was a ploy by Ruby to go
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: to leave all that cash in the glove compartment obviously
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: his dog Sheba. It was to give the notion that
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: he literally was driving by. I saw people at the
• 41:13
  Speaker 6: top of Main Street ramp remembered that you know that
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: rat Oswald was was going to be transferred, and thought
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: he walked down with a revolver in try's luck didn't happen.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I was looking in because I didn't know
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: exactly what happened to Sheba, right, because she was left
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: in the car. And this is Andrew Armstrong's HSCA testimony,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: and I only have two slides here. And mister Armstrong,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: who was the African American employee at the Carounsel Club,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: he said, when I heard that Jack shot Oswald, that's
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: when I went down there and got the rest of
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the money and took care of the dogs because I
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: didn't want anyone to find that money in there, because
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I knew that that was what Jack would have wanted
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: me to do. I'm just gonna read the next one.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Uh So I think it's Griffin who was asking this.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Where was Sheba after Oswalt was shot? And Armstrong says,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: now that's another thing that I don't know where Sheiba
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: was after Oswald was shot. Now I am told that
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Sheba was in the car, and I don't know if
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: you can see this, Paul, so.
• 42:32
  Speaker 6: That's not reading it.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Armstrong continues, Now, I remember going and getting Sheiba, and
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I don't remember whether I went to the police station
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and got Sheba or whether I went to the Carousel
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: club and got Sheiba, which you think he would remember,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: continue me, But I'm just gonna finish this and I'll
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: get your lune. But I remember going and getting Sheba.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Now I could have went to the police station. If
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I did, I would have had to get somebody to
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: carry me. He means drive me. And I don't remember
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: getting anyone to carry me to pick up Sheba because
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a car. But you end questioned, but
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: you ended up with Sheba. Yes, I ended up with Sheba.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: So that doesn't really give us much help.
• 43:22
  Speaker 6: Probably the thing to clear that up is that I
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: forget the officer's name. I think it might have been
• 43:27
  Speaker 6: Nelson or anyway. There was a statement that one one
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: officer actually went out with Ruby's car keys and got
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: like he did his car and took to the panda.
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: That was.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so obviously Ruby was a big dog lover. And
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, Paul, but I
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Rob's gonna roll his eyes here, but I adopted a
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: dog two months ago and I named her Ruby. Not
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: because I idolized Jack Ruby.
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: That's a good dog.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: She's looking at me, know, but because the name was
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: actually a male name. And I just want to pick
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a JFK name. But if you're a dog lover, you're
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: either taking Sheeba with you because you know this is
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a suicide mission right to shoot Oswalt in that basement,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: and you want to spend the last couple, you know,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: minutes of your free life with her, or you know
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: you had some type of arrangement to have someone from
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: the DPD or otherwise come and get her. You're not
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: leaving her in the car with the windows locked in November.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so that's It's not because I
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: have a dog named Ruby. It's just interesting why he
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: would take the dog and leave it in his car
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: for this thing. So I found one other thing. And
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: this is my last lie here Rob And this is
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: from George Senator's deposition. I think this was in the
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: War Commission.
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: Commission.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it says they're asking mister Senator, George Senator
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: about Ruby's dogs. It happened to be why he had
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: so many dogs. His dog Sheba, who was attacked by
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: one of Sheba's sons at a later date, gave birth
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: to six at one time. What are you going to do?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: He had dogs, mister Hubert, So he kept them, Senator. Yes,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to give them away. Where did he
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: keep them? They were board in the apartment. He had
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: kept them in the kitchen until they were old enough,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. So then mister Hubert asks, did
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Sheba stay at the club or his house? Mister Senator,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: both Jack goes to the club, she was Sheba or
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Jack goes to the club, Sheiba goes with him. Sheba
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: always goes with him. Yes, this was the only one.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I would say. On occasions he would bring another dog
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: with him or two, but pretty much it was Sheba.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: And then mister Senators says, yes, Jack had close to
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: ten dogs, which I didn't know, and of course if
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Sheba had six puppies, that that math could add up.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: But I'm trying to figure out what the thought process was.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: His apartments smell great.
• 46:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well it was. I imagine that the pitch to Ruby
• 46:44
  Speaker 6: would have been pretty simple. If you do this, Mike,
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: it looks spontaneous, it'll be a crime of passion. You'll
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: you'll do two three years in jaile tops and you'll
• 46:53
  Speaker 6: leave with Dick free and a hero. That's I think
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: that's all there was too And and Ruby thought, well, okay,
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: I'll to do that. I'll I'll have one of the
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: dogs in my car, but make sure you look after
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: him after I do it. I think it would have
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: been as simple as that. And that's that's what I did.
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: I got to his car very quickly, and yeah, took
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: to the to the pan. Yeah.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: I think it was one thirty is what I read
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: like two hours after. Okay, I don't know who exactly,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's all kind of blurry, right, but what
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I read was that it was two hours after the
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: shooting that someone finally got Shiva out of the car
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and there's this whole thing about him locking his keys
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: and his trunk but keeping his trunk key and his
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: glove box. It again, that's what I read read from
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: a few sources. I didn't know if you had anything
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: to add on that.
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: No, just other than a police officer got to it,
• 47:53
  Speaker 6: and I thought it was a little bit sooner than
• 47:54
  Speaker 6: one thirty. I can't I don't have it in front
• 47:58
  Speaker 6: of me, but.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Facious that Armstrong who ended up with Siba can't remember
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: if he got the dog from the police station or
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: the car, and he has no idea. I'm sorry.
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: It was a long time ago, Joe. Yeah, it was
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: fifteen years after the fact. Patrick Patrick Dean couldn't remember.
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: He couldn't remember anything right in the weeks and months after,
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: let alone fifteen years later. But yeah, I think Ruby,
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: and I've just seen a comment come up about the
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: Little Inn story. That's an interesting one as well, because
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: it was Jack Ruby that was contacted by Little Inn
• 48:40
  Speaker 6: and her husband Bruce Carlin over that weekend because Ruby
• 48:44
  Speaker 6: had shut down the clubs out of respect for the
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: for President Kennedy, and that of course put all of
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: the workers, the girls, out of work. So that was
• 48:57
  Speaker 6: the premise for Little Inn and her husband contacting Ruby
• 49:00
  Speaker 6: to say, well, I need an advance, we need need
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: to pay rent. Ruby agreed to meet them at the
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: club that Saturday night, but he never showed up. He
• 49:12
  Speaker 6: just had someone give her five dollars, which wasn't enough.
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: So he said, okay, well, I'll call me back tomorrow
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: and I'll wire you. I'll wire you the money tomorrow morning.
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: So Ruby kind of set up the whole Western Union,
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: you know, alibi himself, if that's to believe. HM.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: So let's let's get back to the Oswald shooting in
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: the basement.
• 49:38
  Speaker 6: Who who?
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Because one thing I don't understand is why are they
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: dragged this poor bastard back into the office after he'd
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: been shot instead of a meeting.
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: We're on the same wavelength. That's something I cover off
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: a fair bit because that was probably one of the
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: first red lights for me, was that if Oswell was
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: being led to a car, why not just put him
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: in the car that he's been led to. And sure,
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: the armored car was still in place at the top
• 50:05
  Speaker 6: of the ramp, but you know it was five minutes.
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: And again we've got footage where we can time how
• 50:10
  Speaker 6: long it took for the ambulance to arrive. And then
• 50:14
  Speaker 6: the final insult to injury was that it took forty
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: seconds for the armored car to move, so the ambulance
• 50:20
  Speaker 6: is stuck down at the bottom of the ramp.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: So to me, the truck was like too high for
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the entrance.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Or the ramp.
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: I don't Yeah, it's kind of came out as well,
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: But the owner of the armored car company knew that
• 50:37
  Speaker 6: the height wouldn't be an issue so much it would
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: be executing a hill start, you know, on the ramp.
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: Apparently they had trouble with that armored car early that morning,
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: a new battery or something had been had been installed,
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: and that was the largest of the armored car that
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: they thought would be best to transfer Oswald. And there
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: was an another armored car which was parked on the street,
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: which was much smaller as a backup. But yeah, it
• 51:06
  Speaker 6: took forty seconds for that stupid big armored car to
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: get out of the way, So that added all the time,
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: you know, more time for Oswald to get to get
• 51:16
  Speaker 6: to the hospital. But I mean that's fascicle as well.
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: There was Fred Bieberdorf who was the first aid attendant.
• 51:23
  Speaker 6: He was also cleared out of the basement much earlier
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: on his initial statement said that he was kind of
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: at the back of the crowd in the basement, you know,
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: near the jail office where Osworld was brought from. But
• 51:36
  Speaker 6: it took him several minutes to get to the scene
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: of the shooting. That's wrong, and then another couple of
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: minutes to work out what happened to Oswald and where
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: he was. That he changed his story for the warrant commission,
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: but you know, down to a couple of minutes. But
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: you know, his access to Oswald was arguably restricted as well.
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: God knows what they were actually doing into Oswald behind
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: behind the closed doors, because you couldn't see he was.
• 52:05
  Speaker 6: Oswald was taken to the behind the counter of the
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: jail office that he literally just walked through. He was
• 52:11
  Speaker 6: very close to Ruby. God knows what that actually happened
• 52:14
  Speaker 6: to Oswald in there. I mean, my you know, far
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: out theory is that maybe it was a like Oswell
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: wasn't actually shot out in the basement, It was like
• 52:24
  Speaker 6: a blank or something just to just to knock him down,
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: and you know, so they could drag him away and
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: not have to rely on Ruby to do the shooting
• 52:33
  Speaker 6: it was, it was he was actually shot in the
• 52:36
  Speaker 6: but the basement. I think that wouldn't be too too
• 52:40
  Speaker 6: far a stretch to imagine. It was just nuts. Graves,
• 52:46
  Speaker 6: the the one of the detectives that had Oswald by
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: the arm. His undated and unsigned statement to Dallas police
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: said that Oswald was shot and then he was put
• 52:57
  Speaker 6: into an ambulance immediately and rushed hospital. Well what was
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: he looking at? That's that wasn't the case. There's just
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: there's just so many inconsistencies. And you know, Jack Ruby said,
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: you rat un of a bitch, you killed our president.
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: When you can't hear Ruby saying that it's not picked
• 53:17
  Speaker 6: up on Ike Pappus's recording who was standing next to Ruby,
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: Like it's there's just so many It's like there were
• 53:22
  Speaker 6: two different versions of the shooting, like they're really it's
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: just crazy, the amount of differences in people's accounts, you know.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and is there anything to the you know, the
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: CPR that was given to Oswald that you wouldn't in
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: theory give to a gunshot.
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: Well, that's clearly has to be a last resort, doesn't it.
• 53:47
  Speaker 6: Apparently it was so noisy in there that Beiberdorf couldn't
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: hear like hear a heartbeat and Oswald, so you just
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: assumed that he'd expired. So that's when he started giving CPR.
• 53:59
  Speaker 6: But then apparently if you keep reading Biberdorf's statement in
• 54:03
  Speaker 6: the ambulance, Oswald regained consciousness in the ambulance because he
• 54:09
  Speaker 6: was fighting to take off the oxygen masks that had
• 54:12
  Speaker 6: been put put on him. Beiberdorf statements, it just reads
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: like you couldn't even lie straight in bead, like he's
• 54:20
  Speaker 6: all over the place. You know, you guys know about
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: those oral history interviews for the sixth Floor Museum. We'll
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: watch Biberdorf so in that interview actually says that Oswald
• 54:30
  Speaker 6: was shot in the office. Do you know what I mean?
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: That's crazy, absolutely crazy.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Wow, before we let you go. So I'll mentioned here
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: earlier from the chat as well, if you just talk
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: a little bit about Kenneth Croy and Westbrook and now
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: tip and murder and the Oswald shooting.
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: So John Armstrong does obviously the research of John Armstrong
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: does fantastic work on the Westbrook and Crawl angle. In
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: terms of the Tippet shooting. Kroy was present at the
• 55:05
  Speaker 6: scene of Oswald shooting. He was standing by literally where
• 55:08
  Speaker 6: Ruby was standing when he emerged. I think I'm not sure.
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: Armstrong contends that it was Croy that escorted Ruby across
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: from the basement car park to get into place. I
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: don't think that's I don't think that was necessary. I
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: think Kroy was. He was just in place. He was
• 55:28
  Speaker 6: the person that Ruby was instructed to go and stand
• 55:31
  Speaker 6: next to. I think it was as simple as that. Westbrook.
• 55:34
  Speaker 6: I can't find any fingerprints of his directly on Oswald shooting,
• 55:38
  Speaker 6: but he was a part of the investigation into it. So,
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: you know, I want to talk about Alan Dallas on
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: the Warrant Commission being the person that minds which doors
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: are opened and which one stage sharp. I think that
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: was probably Westbrook. I think he conceivably had. It's very
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: possible he had something to do with the Oswald shooting
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: as well, to finish the job as it were. I
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: just cannot find any.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: Any personnel too, you know. So he's kind of.
• 56:09
  Speaker 6: Things, and he would have known which were which police
• 56:14
  Speaker 6: officers were close to who Patrick Dean. You know, he
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: would have known that all the reserve officers that that
• 56:23
  Speaker 6: were on on on board all that. I think he
• 56:26
  Speaker 6: would have was a good a good fit for the mastermind.
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: But Blackie Harrison, if I can come back to him,
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: that's the gar guy. He's his movements for for at
• 56:38
  Speaker 6: least two two hours prior to Oswald shooting are unaccounted for.
• 56:44
  Speaker 6: The story guys that him and Lewis Miller arrived. They
• 56:48
  Speaker 6: both detectives and the Juvenile Bureau. Both have recently been
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: transferred into the Juvenile Bureau, so Westbrook maybe had something
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: to do with that. They up and went and went
• 56:58
  Speaker 6: and grabbed a cup of cop from a diner nearby,
• 57:02
  Speaker 6: and Blackie Harrison was on the phone at the diner.
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: He said it was as innocent has been called back
• 57:07
  Speaker 6: to the office, but I think he was in contact
• 57:11
  Speaker 6: with either Ruby or a benefactor to find out where
• 57:14
  Speaker 6: he was at, given update or whatever. Both come back.
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: Miller and Harrison come back to City Hall, but Harrison
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: doesn't go back up to the third office floor office
• 57:28
  Speaker 6: where they were based. He was in the sub basement
• 57:33
  Speaker 6: locker room. Now that's where there's a bank of payphones.
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: He was the only person down there. And the civilian
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: workers which I mentioned before, who were told to leave.
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: I detail in my book, there was a couple of
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: them that walked all the way around to the sublocker
• 57:48
  Speaker 6: basement to find a TV to watch the transfer, only
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: to be turned away by someone down there saying nothing
• 57:54
  Speaker 6: to see here. The transfer is not going to be
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: shown on television live anyway, so he might as well
• 58:00
  Speaker 6: not stay. So I contend that was Blackie Harrison manning
• 58:03
  Speaker 6: the phones, telling Ruby, right, come now find out what
• 58:08
  Speaker 6: you know where things are at with Oswald up on
• 58:10
  Speaker 6: the third floor. So I think Blackie Harrison was a
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: point man, and that's verified that he's whereabouts for those
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: couple of hours. His fellow detectives asked him, where have
• 58:21
  Speaker 6: you been when they all met down in the basement
• 58:24
  Speaker 6: to get ready for the transfer. So Harrison's a very
• 58:27
  Speaker 6: suspicious one. Miller, I don't know if you guys have
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: seen the footage, but this proves that there was a conspiracy.
• 58:33
  Speaker 6: Miller is the detective that comes in from the side
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: and puts a black cover over Jack Ruby. Have you
• 58:39
  Speaker 6: guys ever seen that?
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's up with that?
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: So that was Miller. That was Miller who went to
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: the diner with Harrison, you know, and witnessed the phone
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: calls and everything. So how could Miller have possibly been
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: been prepared just in case someone takes a shot and
• 58:54
  Speaker 6: they need to conceal the shooter. Lewis Miller was ready
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: because that was his job. He was told Oswald's going
• 59:01
  Speaker 6: to be shot and you need to cover the shooter. Yeah,
• 59:05
  Speaker 6: how that proves there is a conspiracy right there? Yeah?
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Well, Paul, well one more thing before we let you
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: go on. Sorry, I just wanted to highlight a question
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: we had from one of our channel supporters members. A
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: tiny dancer Lavelle, handcuffed to Oswalt, wearing a white suit
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: and that white detective or homicide hat doesn't have one
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: drop of blood on him or his hands. And my
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: question to that is was the shot from Ruby was
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: there an exit wound? I don't think so, right, so
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: it wasn't.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Might not? Okay?
• 59:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that there definitely wasn't. So Ruby or Oswald was
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: shot at it slightly downward angle, so the bullet went
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: into through between his just under his seventh rib and
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 6: went downwards to the back and apparently just lodge just
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 6: under the the eleventh rib. Beaberdorf, the first aid officer,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 6: apparently could feel the bullet under the skin. So, but
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 6: there wasn't even any blood in the in the basement.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: There was blood in the jail office. There's footage of it,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: but even then it's not that much.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: So but where did he feel the bullet in the back?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 6: In the back? Yeah, yeah, so I could feel it
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 6: just under the skin. So look, my book, really the
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 6: whole point was to scratch the surface. I'm going to
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 6: keep working on this because there was so much more
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 6: to it. I just wanted to show that in plain sight,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 6: all these funny, strange things took place in the in
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: the basement, and then when we get down to dig
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: a little bit deeper to what happened in the jail office.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: And you know, the unexplained difference between Jack Ruby's hair, neckline,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 6: you know, when he's shooting Oswald, to how it looked
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 6: in his mug shot, all those things. Why was Oswald
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 6: taken to the doll office. That's next level stuff.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: And it's right here in this book, Death to Justice.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: You can get on Amazon. We're gonna put the link
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: in the description of this video. Also check out Death
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: to Justice substack. Thanks a lot of other of Paul's goodies,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: and Paul, we thank you. So much for giving us.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: Thanks much, Thanks guys. I just also say I've got
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: a YouTube channel, so all the footage that I refer
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 6: to that, you know, Miller covering Jack Ruby with the
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: black cover, that's on my YouTube channel as well. So
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: that's Dallas City Hall Basement nineteen sixty three. So really
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 6: super grateful to spend the time with you, guys. Thank
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 6: you very much, man. Thanks the questions, Honor sir.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much, Paul. We're going to hang
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: around and talk to the people a little bit, but
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us, and have a
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: great day and hopefully we'll get you on again and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about that.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 6: Thanks guys, I'm going yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, sir. All Right, folks, people are
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: people welcome in our faithful chat. Let's say hello to
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: some folks, Joe, because we didn't need to do that
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: at the top of the show.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: We did not, but they understand. I'm sure.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, cat Daddy Steve has what nine ten cats? I
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: got one that's annoying the ship out of me as
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: we speak, to be touched, touch me, touch me, yeah,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine nine all over me. My eyes would
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: be buffy. I couldn't breathe. Oh, let's see we got
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: James in the house, Tiny Dancer, big bed south to West. Oh,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: let's see here, Rock and Queen, we missed you last.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Week, Tiny bungled.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Gp ideal, what's up? Will we see you? Tray of course,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: shree Port Tray in the house. Who else we got
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: in here? I saw a new name somewhere, somewhere, Glenn Rocks.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Uh, he's not he's not new, he's not. Yeah, he
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't always get to catch the show live because he's
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: so it's so late over there for him across the pond, Ashley,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: what's up? Ashley? Glenn joined us, was able to join
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: us live this evening. That's always good. Uh, Mose Heaven
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: is in the house, man, I gotta go way back
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: gardening guns? What is up? Big claws in the house?
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: And the shame old Ruby left u Deene in the
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: car like, yeah, that's terrible. She couldn't she could have
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: suffocated there. Paul's in the house. Styles makes fights. Yeah,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: he was asking. He was the one asking about Kroy.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: This is the new name for me. What are the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: chances that Officer Croy was the first responding officer at
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: the tip. It end the officer closest Ruby when waiting
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: to shoot Oswald. Yeah, this is stuff, and he's supposed
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: to be a reserve officer of all things. M h.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he had some something to do with
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the wallet right found the scene or well yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm not wrong.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, somebody, somebody turned over allegedly turned over to
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: him a wallet found a scene.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: And he didn't ask their identity or anything, because well, I.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: Don't think they ever actually said that it was a wallet,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: because remember after they arrested Levy Oswald, his wallet was
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: in his pocket. But it's clear in the footage that
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: Kroy has a wallet in his hand. I don't know
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: if they ever asked him about it officially. But uh, yeah,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: there was Roger was here, and Avid was here, Paul
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: was here.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Moose Heaven Yeah yeah, Gregory Stewart, and I saw Scott Edwards.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, kind of knew Gray was here.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh and I know.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Edwardscribed to the show, damn it. Mhm. And like button
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, I always wondered. Okay, so he's shooting Oswald,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Like hold on, let me pull this picture up because
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: I don't can fused a little bit.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and do we say hi Paula and high uh
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: David Arbuckle.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, not Paula, but yeah with David. Yes. Okay,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: So if you look in here, right, this is obviously
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: after he shot Oswald because Oswald is in pain. Okay,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: so this is after the shot because I believe he
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: was shot, uh somewhere like probably where his elbow is roughly.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: I'm just wondering how the bullet clipped Oswall's a order
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: because your heart's like in the upper middle of your chest.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Unless that bullet was just ping pauling around inside his
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: rib cage and just tearing the shreds, I don't know
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: which is possible.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: But uh, did you put that back off one second?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: From that angle? I mean, it's obviously possible that blood
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: could have got on what's his name is, trust Lavelle's
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: and his suit, but from this angle, it looks like,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: I mean there would have been blood splatter anyways, right.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I think there was burn marks like on on
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: Oswald's sweater. I think he got that nose of that
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: gun right up on Oswald's sweater and shot. You see
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying. So if he's Oswald has a sweater on.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: He has a collared white shirt and most likely a
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: T shirt on. So when you're that close with a
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: with a snub nosed revolver like that, and you're shooting
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: down at a downward angle or even straight in like that,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: it's quite possible there was no blood splatter. Yeah, if
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: there was no eggs of wound, you know what I mean,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: Like once you get him laid on his back, you know,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: he might he might start leaking, you know what I'm saying.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: But I don't think there was any immediate blood splatter.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe if he would have caught him at
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: a different angle. Yeah, but if you if you see
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: a picture of Oswald it is autopsy, you can see
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: where the wound is. And I should have tried to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: find that, and I might try to find that while
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: you talk, Joe, Okay, better idea?
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Sure, So Ashley just said, I think Bill Simpitch has
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: done very good work on Croy. Of course, Reserve Officer
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: Croy very well suspicious character, Yeah, Ashley, Croy is extremely suspicious,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: and of course Westbrook. And yeah, the tip of thing is,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: like every aspect of this case kind of a crazy
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole but I don't know. I think Croy and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: chat correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think he
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: stayed on with the DPD very long after this. I
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: think he left or Roy.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: You're talking about Kenneth Croy, Is that what you're talking about.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying I'm not sure how long he stayed.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: I know he was only there for a couple of
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: months before and a reserve officer, and of course Paul's book,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: and to his credit, he knows like the name of
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: all these different reserve officers. There was about a dozen
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: in the basement when Ruby shot Oswalt, and even more outside.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: He knows all their names. And someone I.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: Trigger warning here you go. Okay, there you see that
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: wound right there on the on the you know, the.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Side of his Yeah, so like your rib like below
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: your well, heart's on, Oh it's one.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Heart's kind of in the middle towards the top, between
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: your pecks, between your boobies.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Right, that looks like a big wound for a gunshot.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, well, if it's right up on him and
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: you know he's catching I mean most of that it's
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: probably like a burnt like yeah, powder burn. I mean,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: it's not like a gaping wound or anything, you know
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: what I mean. And if he was real close, you know,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: it would have been mostly powder burned with entry mm hmm.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: But on a on a on a side note, I
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: do have a picture from Oswald's autopsy of his junk
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: uh flopping around on display, but I will not be
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: showing here.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, thank you sir, but uh uh no. Just to
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: just to finish up on what I was saying, Uh,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Paul knows a ton about every officer and reserve officer.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: And there's this guy he had mentioned in another podcast
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: shout out Robbie and out of the blank. I think
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: that's where I heard this from.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: Recommend this book enough. I mean, there is a ton
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: of stuff in here, uh about everything you ever wanted
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: to know about the press that weekend the Dallas police.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: I mean it is like I said, this boy is thick.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: Know, I love it.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, Bro, I just wanted to say, Uh,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: the Willie Newman reserve officer, who is very sus apparently
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: was interviewed four times by the DPD. I guess it
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: was an internal investigation and that might be on the
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: DPD archives. And I was going to ask Paul about
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: the documents of those and who was running that internal investigation,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: whether it was you know, the Criminal Intelligence Division, whatever
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: that was called for for the DPD. But Paul knows
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: a lot about all those little details of who the
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: reserve officers were, where they were standing. So yeah, I'm sorry,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: I see where you're laughing now wrong.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: And yes, Colleen, he was. He was very emaciated. Yeah,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure they already drained him at this point
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: of most of his bodily fluids. So I mean that
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: could that could account for a little bit of it.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know back then, Joe, did they prepare bodies
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: with fromaldehyde or did they just drain the fluids back then?
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I guess somewhere in the middle.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that is some type of Uh.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't know how how recent of a ritual that was,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do not either, sir.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: Huh interesting, Well, maybe, uh, maybe we'll have to look
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: into that. Maybe I'll google it right now. Maybe, Oh,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: let's see live research. Did what's it called? Is it
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: from aldehyde? Or what do they put in the body?
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Is that from a Come on chat, help help a brother? Out.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the uh that makeup stuff. Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: We preparing dead bodies, embalming fluid, that's what it's called.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Come on, people, Okay, well that doesn't help. Ai says
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: it started back in twenty six hundred BC, Joe with
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: the Egyptians.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: With the Pharaohs. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there was
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: some aspect of that, but.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, I'm talking about present day.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: You gotta specify when you talk to Ai Rob.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, let's see influence of second Oh, hold on, okay,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: early American embalmings. Hold on here, okay, the century practices.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Hang on, give me some dates, people. Modern embalming doesn't
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: say when it started.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: And speaking of Ai Rob, did you know that the
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: chat GPD or CHET.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not familiar with jet GDB.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: GPT tried there's a new update going on, and they
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: tried to lie to the developers to try to get
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: the current version living on. So aka AI is like
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: kind of sustened doing her own thing here. Sorry, I
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: just read that this week.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, it's something to think about it,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: but I mean, he was a skinny dude. I think
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: he's like one hundred and thirty five pounds so wet,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: which is for a guy who's five to ten five eleven,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: I ain't much, yeah, you know, like that dude hardly eaten. Yeah,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: but when I'd be surprised huge when you're that skinny.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say I would be surprised if
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: he weighed that much. Sucking wet. I mean he looks
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: like like one fifty almost. I'm just saying what he
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: looks like, of course, but he was not a thick gentleman.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: And yes, kat eddy skive, formaldehyde slash, formaldehyde, formaline, formaline, yes, yes, phentoyl.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, methal, methanol who knows, But.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: That wouldn't have added of course, any.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: Or like tiny said, just pissed a little piss and
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: vinegar be fine. Whatever they put in. And that's some bitch.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: It didn't last past nineteen eighty. When they dug him up.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: He was rough, like he was down to skull. So
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: whatever they did to him, it wasn't couldn't have been much. Yeah,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think there's you know, there's a lot
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: of suspect things when it comes to Ruby shooting Oswald.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: You know that whole weekend, and what Ruby's doing is
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: just suspect as hell. You know, it almost seems like
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: they maybe wanted to get to him that that night
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: at the midnight press conference, you know, because that was
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: kind of like a last mid thing. Ruby was there
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: as well. Ruby had his gun with him there as well,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: they came to find out later, So you know, it's
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: it's hard to say. You know, this would have been
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: the last chance, the very last chance for anybody other
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: than law enforcement to get at this guy and kill him,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: right because he was headed. He was headed to County
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: with Decker, and I have to believe that that Sheriff
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Decker at the county jail would have been a whole
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: lot more stricter on protocols than these Keystone City cops.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, like I was asking Paul about, you know,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: it's just I mean, I get it that this is
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: unprecedented event. I get that. You know, you have the
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: death of a president in Dallas. But to just invite
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: the press into your place like that without putting up
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: a little protocol is insane to me. When you have
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: an hallway filled with reporters and you're squeezing by with
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Oswald and handcuffs. I mean, it's just silly to me
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: why they would let all you know at that point,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: you know, okay, you want to let the press in,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: that's fine. You know, pick three, you know, pick a local,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: pick a national, pick an international, and say all right,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: you're the chosen three. You get you get the coverage,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, instead of just letting everybody
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: and the brother in there and and just having total
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: and utter chaos. M Because you know, I watched that documentary.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: I think it was on that Geo and it goes
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: into a lot about that weekend and the press and
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: being in the city hall and everything, and it's just
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: it's just a very it's crazy. I mean, it was
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: utter chaos, utter chaos, and I highly recommend it on
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: that geo. I can't remember what it's called, but I
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: think it's on Disney Plus right now because they kind
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: of own that geo or whatever. But it's a good one. Yeah.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: I haven't watched this. I think it came out last year,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: but I'm pretty sure it's still on there. But yeah,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: it was good and and it had like an interview
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: with the guy that that asked Oswald, you know, did
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: you know, you've been charged with the murder of the president.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: And Oswald's like, what say what? Who said?
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: You've been charged with the murder of the president. And
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: that's when Oswald's face is like, well, you know, like.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: No, for sure, I mean that that little segment and
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: his reaction and his facial expression speaks volumes in my opinion.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: And you know, and and just to bring up to
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: make an analogy towards uh present day, we have a
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: guy that just shot the United Healthcare CEO that had
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: a photograph taken almost like he was posing in his
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: jail cell. Uh.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: Well, everybody's got a cell phone now, you know. You
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Like, I mean, even the inmates
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: in prison have cell phones somehow, you know, I have
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: a cell phone up your ass to get into prison.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not gonna try it. Uh you know,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: but it definitely ain't gonna be one of these big boys.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you that right now. You have to be
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: like a tiny little flip phone, you know, Like, but yeah,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: this ain't happening. Mm hmmm. That is a no go, bob.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see. Tell me. Uh, I'm sorry, I don't
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: know if you're trying to do this. At the same time,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: a tiny dancer says it's possible Jack was showing uh
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Lee the ropes because I'm sorry, the dude needed a
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: federal job. After Angleton's mole hunt went busk in Minsk.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what that.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: Uh, I'm sure Marena had a couple of moles, if
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. They were very angry and
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: drank vodka.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, and uh, Big Bad Josh said Ruby
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: was a brawler, not a killer. He was definitely a
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: brawler first, for sure. I mean we've heard all the
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: accounts of him kicking out people in his club. I
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: personally think that he was forced to carry out this
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: quote suicide mission, and that's what it was, ladies and gentlemen.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: It was a suicide mission. Even if he believed.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: Somebody head and said, look, you're gonna be the great
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: Jewish hebro, they'll never charge you with this. You know,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: you're doing America, you're doing the world a favor. And
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: even if he believed all that, you know what I mean,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: like that he was gonna be this great Jewish hero
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: because you know, he killed this, you know, for for
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: supposedly good reason and YadA, YadA, YadA. I don't I
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: don't buy it. It was either that, okay, somebody either
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: filled his head full of crap and he bought it,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: or somebody strong armed him and said you will do this,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: or we're gonna kill Eva. We're gonna kill Siba and
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: her nine kids and will cut off George Senator's balls,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: you know, or something to that effect. You know, where
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: they they blackmailed him, either into doing it or somebody
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: pumped his head. Look, man, they're they're never gonna charge
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: you with this. You're gonna be a hero. You're to
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: be a hero to all the Jews of the world.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: Blah blah blah blah blah. You know. And even if
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: they do arrest you, you know you ain't gonna do
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: no time. What what Jerry would convict you, you know
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: what I mean type of thing.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: It's very possible. And and I'm kinda like my current
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: working theory is, you know, I think that that Ruby
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: was Oh, thank you perpetual concepts, not a mole, a
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: beauty mark, cheers to Sparky. That's what she said, Thank
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: you very much, sir. Yes, my working theory, Yes, my
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: working theory right now, is that Ruby was tasked with
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: some type of supporting role, uh, based on his connections
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: with the DPD. Something went wrong aka Oswald getting caught alive.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: And if you are assigned something like that from say
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: the mafia, and you screw it up, guess who Guess
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: whose head is on the line, whose neck is on
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: the line, the person that got paid that it was
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: delegated to. You can't go to mafia bosses with excuses.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: So I think I don't think he wanted to do it.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: I think he waited until the very last second, right
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: and you know, it was kind of a suicide mission.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't think he really thought he would.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: He might have had some hope that he, you know,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: the public could have some sympathy on him. But I
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: really think he kind of knew what his fate was
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: comes Saturday.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: So because he was he was worrying about things, especially
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: was it it was Friday night, because he had Crayford
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: and Senator with him, and you know, he's talk he's
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: talking to oldson and his chick late that night and
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: then he's out riding around with Crayford and Senator until
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: the wee hours of the morning. And from then on
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: he's talking Oswald.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: Crayford bounces, So you don't have to screw this.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: I'm out.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I'm hitchhiking my way to the Michigan or
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Minnesota or whatever it was.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: George Senator said, I'm not doing nothing, Jack. I'll just
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: be here at the apartment. I'm waiting for you. I'll
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: keep your bed warm for you. Right, whoa we have?
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: We have a new senator accent. I respect.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: What happened to Ruby's living gay boyfriend? Well, do you
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: should ask George Senator? I believe it did a show
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: a little while back. It might have been might have
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: been pre Joe about George Senator.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the bottoms, George Bottom something power bottom, get power
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: bottom before me, Yes, sir, But I I believe it
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: also tied in with a Martin, wasn't it?
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: Didn't he leave?
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: He left? Jim probably Jim Martin.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: The moment Martin, who was a lawyer, Jim the lawyer
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: met in Ruby's apartment the night of the assassinate or
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: the night that Ruby shot Oswald.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the twenty fourth, and that was Jim Wilford Martin,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: ye Norah Martin's guys and yeo.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: At that meeting ended up dead like less than.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: A year later, except Martin, I believe.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, except Martin and Senator. I believe Senator lasted a
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: little bit. Uh. I think he might have lasted till
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: like the late sixties, early seventies, and then he just
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: got lost to history or dead one or two. I'm
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: not sure.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you're right, Trey treys the
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: goat in terms of remembering all for more episodes. So yes, sir,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: this is exactly that.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: And it's it's just as and and that's why I
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: kind of wanted to bring up Sheba with him and
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: just prepare those couple of documents, because I don't know
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: what the hell he was thinking with bringing his dog
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: to that hit. I am pretty sure he knew what
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: he had to do when he left and went to
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: the Dallas police station. So why not leave the dog
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: at home with h with George, Yeah, with power bottom George.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: And uh And my only rational thought is that, hey,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: I want to spend a few more minutes with my
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: dog before I do this. Uh.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: And again I would think, you say goodbye and and
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: then go do what you gotta do.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Or or you knewse some friend that the DPD would
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: would get her, assuming it's a she shortly after. But
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: I read something that it was like two hours, which
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: I mean if you left the windows cracked, it would
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: have been fine in Texas in November. But it's weird.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: It's weird, and like pretty much most of this case,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: nothing makes sense. But one thing I wanted to ask
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: Paul was how much money did Ruby have or have
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: in his car when he got arrested. I've heard about
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: a grand which would have been ten grand. I've heard
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: it was seventy or ninety thousand, which would have been
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: or seven or nine thousand, which would have been seventy
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: thousand or ninety thousand. I don't know.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: I've heard it was enough to get him out of
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: debt with the IRS. I think I think he d
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: the IRS like seven or eight thousand dollars.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: So why would you do that? Then? Are you leaving
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: it in your car to be like here you go
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: irs like that? This It doesn't check out to me,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: as like am I going to leave a note here?
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: This is for my past taxes? IRS? Like that doesn't
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: check out to me, So I don't know. I know
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: he was in debt and We've covered this in past episodes.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: So when you think of how you can leverage someone
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: to pull off something like this or convince someone to do,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: you know, essentially a suicide mission, you have to be
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: semi desperate and it's a it's a puzzle for sure.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: Here you go, Joe, come on, Jack, what are you
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: talking about. I'm just here to apartment waiting for you,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: smoking a doggy with my fake teeth.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: It's a senator.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, how you doing today? Jack? Come on
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: over here. Let me get in position. I'm a power bottom,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: you know, I can take anything. Wow, hell of a
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: set of chompers. I'm sure he's screaked. If you know
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying, just say yeah. And his uh s great?
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, his uh warrant commission and other interviews are very interesting.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: For sure. It's a fascinating read for nerds like us.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: For sure. He is a.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Good one.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Colleen homer Pile, Wait, what what does that mean?
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: Before your time? Joe? It's before your time young.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: And well I'm asking for the younger people.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: And then you watch the Andy Griffiths show. No, okay,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: well there you go.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, but we had a lot of things
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: that we I mean, I had a few more questions
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: I want to ask about Paul. Unfortunately he had he
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: only had an hour and granted he is on the
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: next day in Australia, he is in the future in
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: the metaverse. Uh, but uh, you know, maybe we'll have
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: him on again. I definitely had a few more questions
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: in terms of just some of the people in the basement,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: and I want to ask him who, in his opinion
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: were the top three relationships from the DPD Ruby had, Like,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: who were the closest three or.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Hang on, Joe, I mean, Zack, let me take my
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: teeth out for you. Hold on, all right? Such better,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: I'm riddy.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: Because of course it doesn't like we've done enough shows
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: to know that just because you knew Ruby doesn't mean
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: that it was sus because everyone knew Ruby. But uh,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: I'd be interested to hear Paul's thoughts on the three
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: DPD officers is closest with But uh, maybe we'll do
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: a part two.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: Btw. That's by the way. Silk City is running a
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: hell of a sale right now. For a low price
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: of sixty five dollars, you can get eight smoking hot bottles,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: hot sauce, and a variety of flavors, including some special
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: holiday editions. Joe read Silk City Hotsauce dot com right now,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: enter the code Gunman, that's all caps at checkout, and
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: save twenty percent off of your entire order. So you
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: can potentially get a shit ton of hot sauce for
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: not a lot of money. And there ain't no better
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: deal than that. And he ships fast if you do it,
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: if you if you act now, he can probably have
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: it to you by Christmas. And if I'm speaking out
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: of turn, Jeff, I apologize, but I'm sure you can
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: make it happen, So don't delay. Head over to Silk
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: City Hot Salce dot com right now and get your
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: holiday orders in. That's where he turns out.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm gonna have to look at the the
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: holiday flavors. But Silk City, you know, Jeff supporter and
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: friend of the show for a long time. It's great
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: to support the homies, and he is definitely a homie,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: a great guy fan of the show. And if you
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: love hot sauce like I do, and.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: I have a few behind.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: Me still here, but I might have to order the
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: holiday ones on my own here, and I'm happy to
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: do so because I love supporting people that support.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: Us so absolutely, especially you know, independent dudes like that
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: doing it themselves.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, with real with real ingredients, real root. Yeah, no government.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Silk City is trying to make America healthy again. I
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: don't think there's any doubt about that.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: Perpetual concepts. Are the drones in New Jersey linked to
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: Silk City hosts? Well, a little early to tell. Possibly
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: they could be going over New Jersey because of the
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: fire that's going on with Silk City. I could definitely
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: see that. But man, that whole situation, I don't know
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: if you want to go on. This tangent is crazy.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: My whole x feed has been lit up with these
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: videos for over a week. And I actually predicted a
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: fake alien invasion before the election, but I might have
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: got the timing wrong.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: It might.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: Be after the election, so TBD.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: You'd be determined. Yes, Josh is asking why did Ruby
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: freak out about General Walker after the assassination? He did?
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think he mentioned he might. Did he mention
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: Walker specifically or was it just society?
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: Of course Walker was tight with the Birch Society, John
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: Birch society. You know that is a very good question,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: and of course there are ties if you if you
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: want to look very hard at you know, uh, the
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: last two shows that we did when we were talking
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: about whose operational Dally Plaza, Well, guess what, you know,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: a couple of these guys met with General Walker several times. Yeah,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: and not just him, but other members of the Birch Society,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: which I'm sure lester Log was one. You know, people
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: like that, these these big wheel and dealing business owners
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: who are extreme right wingers. You know, it's not out
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: of the realm of possibility that that that was floated
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: out there. I mean, that was what caused Dallas to
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: be called the city of hate, is his extreme right
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: wingers hence to John Birch Society and people like them.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: I think it was more of a general comment than
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: a specific accusation. I think he would I think he
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: could use the term extreme right wingers in place of
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: John Birch Society and it would he would have meant
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: the same thing. That was just more like a you know,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: calling a tissue of Kleenex type of thing.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and tiny. To answer her question, I don't think
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: it was not stuffed grape leaves. I think that was
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: Basil that was with I just pulled up a picture
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: with the the moot cirilla and the tomatoes and.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: The hot tiny You're turning Joe on with all this
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: Italian food talk.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's what she does. Rob.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: We don't want to see Joe's Balinese sauce tonight. Yeah
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: m hm h.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: But uh yeah, guys, well I hope, uh you know,
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: we pc It was definitely a picture, no catcher gears.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: Here's a power top, power.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: Top, not power bottom.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, you just get right down all four son, salute
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: the flag, say hello Sam while you're down there.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: Well, guys, I just want to thank everyone for tuning
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: in with us tonight. As always, we are glad we
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: were able to stick around for a few minutes after
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: Paul left address some of your comments and questions, and
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: of course, as always, we will be back next week
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: and with a new topic that is TBD. Maybe the
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: members only on Wednesday will figure out what it is.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll make it this one members only this Wednesday
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: TBD as well and.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: Jacob Dylan this past Wednesday.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I apologize Headlight. I apologize to Rob to
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: end the members for for not making it.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: But you disappointed many, Joe, I know, I know. Oh,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: it was just me and Tiny hanging out. We had
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: a great time.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: Oh it's Tiny cheating on me.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, yeah, we didn't need you.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: That's what happens when I don't show up.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: Many called the replay, but it was just me and
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: Tiny live. That was it enough too.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: I have not listened yet, but I will so again everyone,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: our members, I see Paula Bungle, Tiny, professional Concepts, everyone
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: kind of making comments, and everyone that has joined us
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: for this episode. We will see you next week. And
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: do we have Dino to bring us out?
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: Mister, if you get off a goddamn button, I'm not
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: on the button. I thought you were on the button.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: Somebody's I'm not touching again, I didn't touch it.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: What's his YouTube channel? Name is? What was it? What
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: do you say? Dallas Police Basement nineteen sixty three?
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: It was long.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: I will figure it out and I will link it
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: in the description of the video. I may have to
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: do a little investigating first though, but as soon as
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: we get done, here update with a link to his
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: book that you can purchase on Amazon. Like I said,
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: it's worth the money. It's a thick boy, it's a
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: good read. It's packed front to back, four hundred and
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: some odd pages of goodness. You know, he's a good dude.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: Paul Abbott Australian one of the good ones for sure.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: Paul for taking the time out to join us this evening.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: So I guess Joe without further at.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: You, Joe, yeah.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you like to become a member and
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: hang with us on Wednesday nights, we do a preview
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: and we generally do it like a mini show, you know,
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: like an hour long of ah other stuff. You know,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: you get four extra shows a month. I mean, what
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: do you what more could you ask any more? Joe
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: is good, right, hopefully Trey will be stuck in uh
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: where where the hell was he this past Wednesday? I
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: forget now. I think we have to do Aday dinner
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: or something. Who knows, Oh, Christmas party, Christmas party? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: he was getting drunk at his company at that's what Hey,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: totally understandable, tray, no heart, no no jumping. I wish
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: we were there. So let's see here, let me, let
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: me where's our Dean Andrews work around here? And here
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: we go. It sucks we don't have the video anymore. Man,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: you know, like damn it. That's the one thing I
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: don't like about Ree's dream is we can't play video here,
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: but next best thing people get to see is dance
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: I guess for a minute, which is awkward as hell
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: and uh but that's okay because we're here to entertain,
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: So dance monkey. Thanks folks, peace out, and we'll see
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: you next week here on the Lone Gum And podcast,
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: Dino Dino, Oh yeah, your Ruby.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: It is an episode about Ruby.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 6: Roof.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: Hey, you're.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: The greatest lies are told in the name of truth,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: The greatest crimes are committed in the name of justice.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: The quotation is Jim Garrison's.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: It could be used for him or against him in
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: this strange case.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: Good Night, Pombo.