Latest / From the Coach's Mouth / Episode 55: Joe Massaro

Transcript

Episode 55: Joe Massaro · From the Coach's Mouth

0:00
Why do you have replay if if you you want to look at it again, if
0:05
someone hits the ball to the shortstop and they boot it, do
0:08
they get a chance to replay the to play?
0:10
No, right. So, you know, players are human,
0:14
umpires are human. There's a human element
0:16
involved. Take replay out except for the
0:19
egregious mistakes from. The coach's mouth.
0:42
Welcome to the From the Coaches Mount podcast with your host Jay
0:47
Bolden and Ken Krause. Greetings and salutations,
1:06
everyone. This is Ken Kraus here with the
1:08
From the Coach's Mouth podcast. And I'm joined, as always, of
1:12
course, by my good buddy Jay Bolden.
1:14
Jay, how are you doing today? Doing pretty good, Ken.
1:16
Things are good. The weather is a little little
1:19
crazy, but outside of that things are going pretty well.
1:22
How about yourself? Yeah, same thing, You know,
1:24
we're in the generally same area, although we can get
1:27
different weather. But yeah, there's been a lot of
1:29
rain. I think we're supposed to get
1:31
some thunderstorms later on, so high school softball pretty sure
1:35
is off today. Yeah, and we actually we're
1:38
supposed to play today too. It's been pushed back.
1:39
So a lot of games coming up here in the next few weeks.
1:43
But lessons been I want to talk a little bit about my lessons
1:45
can I had a couple things this week that I want to just touch
1:48
base with. It's it's a little crazy for me.
1:50
OK, I've had a kid come in using pitch logic and, and rap Soto
1:54
with other people and we're just talking a lot about, about what
1:58
her ball actually is doing. You know, so we're throwing a
2:01
curveball and we're getting, you know, like 6:00 spin.
2:04
And, and I'm like, that's, you know, we're not, that's not,
2:07
yeah, that's not what we're, that's not what we're after
2:09
here. You know, we're trying to get
2:10
some side spin on there a little bit.
2:12
So spin direction be a little bit better than 6:00, especially
2:15
if we're throwing a curveball. The funny thing was is like all
2:18
this, this data is what I'm getting after here.
2:21
And you put them up there, but there's, there's no corrections
2:24
with with this kid to, to actually make her throw like a
2:28
really legit rise ball or a really legit curveball.
2:31
And I just, it bothers me that we're going to use all this
2:34
these analytics in this in this data to, to use it, but we're
2:38
not using it to actually help correct kids.
2:42
So have you ever experienced anything like that, Ken?
2:44
I just, it's frustrating to me when someone says something to a
2:47
kid like, oh, man, yeah, everything that you're doing
2:49
looks really, really good here. But with ball flight data and
2:52
and you're getting a 6:00 spin on a Curt, which is supposed to
2:55
be a curveball, which is actually, we know a drop ball.
2:58
Yeah, yeah, I, I know what you're talking about.
3:01
And for those who aren't aware, a curveball for a right-handed
3:05
pitcher should be getting a 9:00 spin.
3:07
If it's a lefty, should be getting around a three o'clock
3:09
spin. I'm saying that that's kind of
3:11
like the perfect flat curveball. You really don't want a perfect
3:15
flat curveball. You really want to have a little
3:17
bit more up or down South. For a lefty, it's going to be
3:21
between 2:00 and 4:00, and for a right, it's going to be between
3:25
8:00 and 10:00. So if you're looking at that,
3:27
you're going to get that. But yeah, I know what you're
3:28
talking about. It amazes me how many times
3:31
people will look at the wrong data.
3:34
They don't know what they're doing, or they get this data,
3:37
but they don't know what to do with it.
3:39
I've seen some things where kids go to an event and they come
3:42
back and they got all of their spin rates, but there's no
3:45
mention of what direction the ball is spinning.
3:48
So like in your case you could say yeah that kids spinning her
3:50
curveball at 1400 RPMS but it's going 6 O clock so who cares?
3:55
You know, it's a nice drop ball, but it's not a curveball.
3:59
Right. And being able to still use that
4:01
pitch like we, you know, we can set that up for something here
4:04
if we're trying to get a real legit curveball, right, You
4:07
know, and again, I think those it's if we're going to use
4:10
analytics and we're going to use data, then let's use the data to
4:13
actually help improve the player, not just look at the
4:15
data and say, hey, this is what it's doing.
4:17
OK, that's great. Now what?
4:20
Right. That just bothers me.
4:21
So. Yeah.
4:22
And. Yeah, and I'm going to throw
4:24
this out there for anybody, you know.
4:25
So if you bought a pitch logic ball, maybe you heard us talking
4:28
about it or maybe you saw it somewhere else and you don't
4:31
know what you're doing with it. Rick Paulie on his Paulie Girl
4:34
Fast Pitch site has a tremendous course on there.
4:37
He went through the whole thing. He goes through what every
4:40
metric on their means and how to interpret it and what you're
4:42
looking for and how to make corrections.
4:46
The course cost like $79. I'd say that this is kind of
4:50
like having a $500 bat and then not knowing how to swing it.
4:54
Take that $79, put it into that Rick Paulie course, and you're
4:58
going to help yourself out a lot.
5:00
Yeah, it's a tremendous course and Rick has helped us a lot
5:02
throughout the years with with all of that.
5:04
So, but anyway, I just wanted to get that off my chest.
5:07
It's been it's just something that bothers me that we're we're
5:09
all about the data and the analytics now, but yet we're how
5:13
are how we're using those things to help kids be better is just
5:17
it's, it's a little different to me.
5:19
Yep, Yep, for sure. Enough of enough of my rambling
5:22
and babbling. So why don't you why don't you
5:24
get some information for this awesome guest we have today?
5:27
Hopefully people are listening and have some great takeaways.
5:30
I'm excited to talk today to our guest.
5:32
Me too. And we'll, we'll revisit the
5:34
data thing in more depth in another podcast.
5:38
All right, so today we take a turn to the dark side as our
5:40
guest is AUSA Softball Hall of Fame umpire whose career
5:44
ensuring that fast pitch softball play was both fair and
5:47
safe span nearly 40 years. The Elizabeth, NJ native began
5:52
his umpiring career in 1979 and quickly made a name for himself.
5:56
He went on to call games at the highest levels of the Amateur
5:59
Softball Association, now USA Softball, as well as the NCAA,
6:04
including the SEC, the International Softball
6:07
Federation and the Women's Professional League.
6:10
During that time, our guest umpired 7 National championships
6:14
including the Women's Major Fast Pitch Championship game in 1990,
6:18
four, 1996 and 2000. He also distinguished himself in
6:22
international play, wearing the blue in several ISF tournaments
6:26
including the 2001 Junior Girls World Cup and the 2005 Junior
6:31
Men's World Cup, as well as various Olympic level events
6:35
such as the 2000 USA Softball Pre Olympic Tour and the 2004
6:39
Olympic Games Qualifier. Yet, despite the rarefied
6:43
heights in which he personally moved, he was never too busy to
6:46
help new umpires learn the ropes, as shown by his work in
6:49
leading the cadet umpiring classes every February and March
6:53
in Elizabeth. His outstanding performance in
6:56
those tournaments and his overall service to the sport
6:58
brought our guest many accolades throughout his long career as
7:02
AUSA softball umpire. He earned a spot in the medals
7:05
program at the gold level while also being a member of the
7:08
National Indicator Fraternity. He attained elite status in the
7:12
USA Softball Umpire program as well, was named the USA Softball
7:16
Mid-Atlantic Region Umpire of the Year in 1999 and received
7:20
the Umpire Award for Excellence in Region 2 in 2001.
7:25
His work on and off the field led to his being inducted into
7:29
the Union County Softball Hall of Fame in 2009 and into the USA
7:33
Softball of New Jersey Hall of Fame in 2011.
7:36
In 2023, he received the ultimate honor by becoming a
7:40
member of the USA Softball National Hall of Fame in
7:43
Oklahoma City. Although he's retired from
7:46
active umpiring, he continues to serve the sport of fast pitch
7:49
softball by serving as the Director of the USA Softball of
7:53
New Jersey Hall of Fame. Ladies and gentlemen, let's
7:56
trade the usual booze for applause and give a warm From
7:59
the Coach's Mouth podcast. Welcome to Joe Massaro.
8:05
Hello. Joe.
8:06
Hi, Joe, Thank you. Thank you and.
8:09
Glad to be here. Great and thanks to Linda Lynch
8:11
for connecting us. Previous guest of ours.
8:14
We always love Linda as Jay, says Linda the legend.
8:17
Yeah, she is. All right, so how are we doing
8:20
today, Joe, You doing well? Doing good, very well.
8:23
Thank you all. Right, Well, I guess we'll get
8:25
started right into it. How did you first become
8:27
involved with fast pitch softball?
8:29
I started umpiring when I was 19.
8:32
I first started with baseball and then eventually high school
8:35
softball and USA softball. I used to work for the Elizabeth
8:39
Recreation Department and started actually out as a
8:41
scorekeeper and then eventually I took to umpiring.
8:46
Did you ever coach? A little bit.
8:48
I coached which my daughter's team when she was playing for a
8:53
few years. Not many.
8:55
So what was the decision, Joe, for you Like, you know what, I'm
8:58
going to go the umpire route. Most of us go with the the
9:01
coaching route. What was the decision for you?
9:02
That's like, you know what I'm going to, I'm going to give that
9:04
a try. I always felt like I had a good
9:07
knowledge of the rules and one of the gentleman from my
9:11
neighborhood, Mr. Ray, or Tell what?
9:13
He was my first mentor. He was an umpire and also worked
9:18
in the recreation department. And I asked him, hey, how do I
9:22
get involved in umpiring? And he connected me with the
9:25
various different people in the high school level and the USA
9:28
softball. So that that's how I got started
9:31
with that. And then do you prefer to be
9:33
behind the plate or on the bases?
9:35
Oh, absolutely. Behind the plate.
9:37
What draws you to that? You're in on every pitch, you
9:40
know if you're on the bases, the balls got to be hit.
9:42
Joe, I want to ask you a question here, just a little bit
9:44
off. So what, what do you think of
9:47
the strike zone nowadays that you're watching kind of on TV
9:50
with softball? Just to me, it's just, it seems
9:52
really, really tight. Is, is that on purpose?
9:54
Is have there been changes along the years where people have
9:57
said, hey, we need to shrink that down so we get more
9:59
offensive stuff going on? What What are your thoughts on
10:01
that? I think the more offense came
10:03
when they when they brought the mounds back 3 feet from 40 to
10:07
43. I think the strike zone needs to
10:12
be called properly and it needs to be called consistently.
10:16
Unfortunately, that's never going to happen.
10:19
I mean, as much as we all try and as you can see now in the
10:23
major leagues, in baseball, I mean, they're calling pitches
10:26
that are getting challenged and overturned and they're they're
10:30
being challenged by minuscules of an inch.
10:34
And there's sometimes they're right and sometimes they're
10:36
wrong. But really, is there a reason
10:39
that it seems like the strike zone is shrinking?
10:42
It seem like, you know, if you look in the rules, top of the
10:44
knees to the sternum and the width of the plate.
10:47
And yet, you know, every weekend we get kids, Jay and I both do,
10:51
kids coming back. And then, you know, everybody's
10:52
complaining that, you know, they couldn't get anything called on
10:55
the corners. Everything had to be down the
10:57
middle. Everything was, you know, if it
10:59
wasn't belt high, it was being called a ball and I don't see
11:02
why anybody would do that. But why do you think that might
11:05
be happening? Well, my theory's always been
11:08
it's got to be over the plate and it's got to touch some part
11:10
of the plate. And when you're looking from the
11:13
sides, you could clearly see if a pitch is too high or too low,
11:18
but you can't tell if it's in off the plate or a little on on
11:22
the plate or a little off the plate.
11:24
So my theory's always been you can widen it out a tad bit,
11:28
basically the length of the ball on each side, which basically is
11:32
the term known as the river, right?
11:34
But, you know, don't call it too high or too low because everyone
11:37
can see if that's too high or too low.
11:39
You know, I've seen high pitches called strikes.
11:42
And the coach yelled, bring it down to the neck at least so,
11:47
you know, those things happen or they couldn't hit that with an
11:50
iron. Iron, you know, they're the
11:52
obvious bad ones. But if you have a call that's on
11:56
the edge of the plate, no one can really tell.
11:58
I mean, now with with the challenges they do, but in
12:02
baseball, but you know, we don't have that in softball, at least
12:04
not yet. And you know, the the term
12:07
called the river, which is basically the distance between
12:11
the batter's box and home plate. That's a six inch gap.
12:15
The ball is 3 and three quarter inches.
12:18
And basically it's almost impossible to throw the ball
12:20
through the river without a touch in either the batter's box
12:23
or the plate. So the theory is if it doesn't
12:26
touch the batter's box, it's in the river.
12:28
It could, it could be a strike because somehow or another it
12:31
had to go over a little part of that outer edge of the plate.
12:36
Well, just based on your answers so far, I can tell you I would
12:38
love to have you umpiring the games for some of my kids
12:42
because you're actually calling what I would consider to be the
12:45
strike zone again, any part of the ball going through any
12:49
little edge of it. And when I work with hitters,
12:51
I'm sure Jay does the same thing.
12:53
When I work with hitters, I try to explain that to them, too,
12:55
that you can't be standing there watching a ball.
12:57
Just because it wasn't way over the plate doesn't mean that it
13:00
isn't a strike. And they're surprised sometimes
13:02
when I hold a ball in a location and I listen, was this a ball or
13:06
a strike? And they say, oh, that's a ball.
13:08
And I say, OK, now walk over here in front of me and take a
13:11
look, you know, and half a ball on.
13:13
Right. I do that same drill with my
13:15
umpires in training. Used to do the same thing.
13:17
Or I would hold the ball and take it across, start in the
13:20
middle of the plate and go across to the edge of the plate
13:23
and say, you tell me when it's outside the plate and they'll
13:27
say OK, stop. And then I'll say, OK, come on
13:28
around. It's still at least 1/4 if not
13:31
more still on the plate. So again, same drill, hitters,
13:35
umpires, it should work the same.
13:37
Well, God bless you for doing that.
13:40
Amen. So I want to ask you a question.
13:41
How did your opportunities to umpire at the National
13:44
International Championship levels come about?
13:47
How did, how did, How did that? How did you get to do those?
13:49
Well, I worked a lot of local tournaments and state
13:52
tournaments that were in my area.
13:55
Union County was a hotbed of fast pitch softball.
13:58
I mean, they used to have several different teams and
14:00
several different leagues in that area.
14:02
So I had a lot of early opportunities to work that.
14:07
And you know, I guess based on my performances, they're always
14:12
evaluating. I was afford an opportunity to
14:15
work some national tournaments and then after that I was asked
14:20
to I guess apply for international status as well.
14:24
I want to, I want to ask you another question here real
14:26
quick. I, I met an umpire quite a few
14:28
years ago. I was at a qualifier for men's
14:30
fast pitch and it was for, I think it was year the world's
14:33
were playing and he, he was, I was talking to him.
14:35
He we were standing behind feel he was just watching and he
14:39
said, you know, he's like to prepare me for.
14:41
He basically had mentioned like, hey, if I'm trying when I'm
14:44
before I want to do or come and an UMP a men's league game, I
14:48
try to do a college level game. Is that kind of true?
14:51
Does like, do you think like the zones get a little not
14:54
different, but it just the game moves a little faster?
14:57
So he, he was just trying to prepare himself.
14:58
He said I'd do high school and then I'll do some college and
15:01
the college helps me prepare for when I get to the summer with
15:04
some of the the, the men's stuff.
15:06
So is that something that you kind of did too or or to
15:09
prepare? Yes, I worked the whole fall, a
15:13
whole spring in the, in the college level and then in the
15:18
summer with USA Softball, I did men's, men's major, fast pitch
15:22
and you know, a few Olympic events.
15:25
When you were doing, you know, those big events, the national
15:28
ones or even the international ones, do you have any funny
15:31
stories or any memorable things that happened that really stand
15:35
out for you? Well, there was a few.
15:37
One was I was working a college series.
15:42
Georgia, Tennessee, and I was the plate umpire for the third
15:46
game of the series and it was shifted to for in the SEC, they
15:52
shift the series to a Monday night instead of Friday,
15:55
Saturday, Sunday. They go Saturday, Sunday,
15:56
Monday. So it was doing a Monday night
15:59
game and it was nothing, nothing.
16:02
No one had scored only a few runners on the whole game and
16:09
Tennessee was the home team. They were.
16:11
It was the bottom of the eighth inning.
16:12
They got a couple hits, maybe even a walk in there, I don't
16:16
remember. So Georgia had changed their
16:18
pitcher and I think at the time they both teams were top ten,
16:22
like 7 and 10. And Georgia pitcher who had
16:27
pitched the first two games of the series came in in relief and
16:31
Tennessee had runners on 2nd and 3rd, bottom of the eighth.
16:35
I don't remember how many outs there were and the pitcher from
16:38
Georgia went to deliver the ball and she just fell off the mount.
16:41
She fell off, fell down attempting to deliver the ball
16:46
and she actually never released the ball, which made it an
16:49
illegal pitch and the run scored one nothing to end the game.
16:55
So that was an odd experience. The a couple odd things were
17:00
that by the time I got to the locker room, my phone was
17:04
blowing up, you know, and, and you know, I've watched the game
17:09
on replay and I thought my reaction was slow, but that was,
17:14
that was a funny one. And then there was another
17:17
incident. I was doing a National Pro Fast
17:19
pitch game and the batter was kind of crowding the batter's
17:24
box and a pitch came inside a little bit and she basically
17:29
leaned her knee into the pitch. And I pointed and I said to her
17:34
right there, that's a ball. And she said I got hit.
17:38
And I said you did, but you're not getting first base because
17:41
you moved into it. And a friend of mine, a couple
17:46
people I knew, knew the game was going to be on, and one of them
17:48
was actually taping it. And the funny part was the game
17:52
was being broadcast. And Michelle Smith, who's also
17:55
from New Jersey, right, was broadcast in the game.
17:59
So as when I got the tape back, Michelle Smith said, I think she
18:05
leaned into it. Let's go back and let's look at
18:08
that on video. And then she said, oh, that's a
18:10
great call by that umpire, Joe Misaro from New Jersey, because
18:14
Michelle's from New Jersey. And she says, oh, I've been to
18:17
games where I've thrown to Joe and he's always on his game.
18:20
So I, I kind of thought that was, you know, a funny whole
18:24
full circle thing because I've umpired Michelle a few times.
18:27
So yeah. That's awesome.
18:29
Yeah, that's really nice, you know.
18:31
By the way, that illegal pitch that ended the game for Georgia,
18:35
Tennessee, what made the not so top 10 highlights only because
18:39
of the way it happened. And of course, the announcer on
18:43
ESPN goes, how do you end a game on a block because they don't
18:47
know illegal pitch from block alone.
18:49
Basically the roles are the same.
18:51
And I'm not sure, but I think Rick Paulie might have been the
18:54
pitching coaches. I swear I recall him talking
18:57
about that particular play. And then, you know, the
19:00
strangest ending to a game he'd ever seen.
19:03
So might be full circle there too.
19:07
So what about any particular personalities, anybody through
19:11
your umpiring career? I mean, we just saw the the
19:14
thing with Mike White where he got upset about a a pitch call
19:18
and he came out and he was, you know, kicking dirt, you know,
19:21
rubbing out the the lines and all that and throwing a fit, you
19:25
know, anything like that. Any you know, anybody that you
19:28
can remember that was just kind of a funny personality to you
19:31
maybe now. Some of the members that are
19:34
national umpire staff, Henry Pollard and Tony Walsh, they
19:38
always try to make like make it fun.
19:41
Besides, you know, the seriousness of it.
19:43
And, and so, you know, they, they were really good.
19:47
And then there was another friend of mine who is also in
19:51
the Hall of Fame, Henry and, and, and Tony are as well, but
19:55
he lived in the Philadelphia area.
19:57
He's deceased. Nixon Quanto and he'd be a guy I
20:01
could talk to and ask questions because he was so close, you
20:03
know, Philly and and New Jersey and, you know, he always had a
20:07
like a funny thing about it. But you know, he, he was a good
20:10
mentor as well because it it's all about managing the game And
20:16
and Nick was really good at managing the game.
20:18
He tried to get me to do soccer for him, but I said no, I didn't
20:21
know anything about soccer. And he goes, yeah, but you know
20:23
how to manage a game. And I said, I said, Nick, the
20:26
only thing I know about soccer is in.
20:28
Is if you kick the ball in the goal, in the net, it's a goal,
20:31
he said. Not if they're offside.
20:32
And I said, see, I know nothing about soccer.
20:35
I don't want to know anything about soccer.
20:38
Yeah, it's like, I don't know if you ever watched Ted Lasso, but
20:41
yes, yeah. One of the early episodes where
20:44
they score, but then his guys called for being offsides and
20:48
he's yelling at the the referee. How was that outside?
20:51
You know, I don't get it. How was that outside?
20:53
And he goes, no, really, I mean it.
20:54
I don't understand the rule. That's a great.
20:58
Yeah, and supposedly there's not the rules, a lot of rules in
21:01
soccer, but I, I don't know any of them.
21:03
So one of the things I felt the reason I was very successful was
21:09
or had a pretty good career was that I didn't try to officiate
21:12
other sports. I mean, I started with baseball
21:15
and then kind of a did a baseball softball thing for a
21:17
while. And then I went, my softball
21:19
schedule was in high demand. And, you know, so I used to, you
21:23
know, I worked a lot of games in the spring.
21:26
I was working in Florida like the first weekend of the season,
21:29
which a lot of guys from up here don't have that opportunity.
21:32
But I I was probably scheduled for a close to 100 games a year
21:36
before rain outs. So in the college level, so.
21:40
Wow, it's a lot of games. So how did you become involved
21:43
in training new umpires in New Jersey and and why did you
21:46
decide to do that? As I indicated earlier, we had,
21:50
you know, a fair amount of fast pitch leagues in our and some
21:55
slow pitch as well. And you know, we, we had a
21:58
pretty good training program. The state UIC, Dick Archer, he
22:02
lived in Rahway, which was in Union County.
22:06
Our deputy UIC was Jim Powers, and he lived in Cranford, also
22:10
in Union County. And they asked me to come one
22:14
day and help out and just like, you know, kind of position guys
22:17
on the field while the other two gentlemen were like running
22:20
drills and that kind of stuff. So that's how I kind of started
22:23
helping out and I guess it just kept on snowballing and.
22:28
What was that? Was that something that you
22:30
enjoyed doing? Oh absolutely.
22:32
It's giving back. I loved it.
22:33
Loved it. The drill we were talking about
22:36
before, the good thing that I liked about teaching umpires was
22:41
not that you were teaching people things that they didn't
22:43
know. It's things that they thought
22:45
they knew and just didn't realize, you know, and not
22:48
think. That drill with the ball is a
22:50
great example. Yeah, well, and it's funny too,
22:53
because, you know, as a former coach, I know that everybody
22:56
thinks they know the rules until the rule book comes out.
22:59
Right. I never lost a protest on a
23:02
rule. Yeah.
23:04
Yeah, me either. I, you know, and again, when I
23:06
was coaching, I got smart about that.
23:08
I wouldn't, you know, I might go out and ask a question about a
23:11
call to try to, you know, figure out.
23:13
So I understood where the Empire was coming from and could adjust
23:16
in game. But you know, yeah, if it was a
23:19
rules thing, you know, that one, I could win.
23:22
And if you don't mind, I'm going to tell you a quick story.
23:24
We were up at the Northern Nationals in Minnesota and I had
23:30
always taught my catchers that if we're doing an intentional
23:32
walk, just get over behind the opposite batter's box and stand
23:37
there and wait for the ball to come in.
23:38
So we're not doing all the jumping around because the the
23:41
catcher's box is from the end of 1 batter's box to the other.
23:46
Box to the other. Right.
23:47
And of course, you know, so we're in this tournament and I
23:51
have my catcher do that and they call an illegal pitch because
23:54
the catcher was out of the catcher's box.
23:57
And I and I was the assistant coach at this point on the team,
23:59
but I set up to the head coach. I'll take this one.
24:01
I go out there and talk to the Empire said, now that you know,
24:04
here's where the catcher's box is.
24:05
It goes from here to here with clearly a baseball umpire and
24:09
he's just disagreeing so well, can you check with your partner?
24:12
Checks with his partner. Partner says the same thing,
24:15
illegal pitch, everybody advances.
24:17
And I said, all right, let's bring in the umpire and chief.
24:20
And even the umpire and chief wasn't quite sure about it.
24:23
And then I, I just kind of quietly said, you know, I've got
24:26
a rule book if you want to look at it.
24:28
I didn't want to bring it out because I know that's a no no,
24:30
But they kind of discuss it. I think they finally got a rule
24:33
book and they look at it and they finally had, you know, I'm
24:36
just standing there because I'm waiting for it.
24:38
They finally had to admit, Yep, everybody goes back.
24:40
You know, I won the protest on that one.
24:44
But it pays, you know, for coaches, it pays to know the
24:46
rules, too. Yeah, I I actually had one of my
24:50
5 ejections over over a rule that the coach didn't know.
24:58
We had a bunted ball that rolled, had some backspin on it
25:04
and it hit a bat. It hit the bat in fair
25:07
territory. So my acronym about that was if
25:12
it hits the bat, play it where it's at and if the bat hits the
25:15
ball again out is the call. So the the bat was clearly in
25:20
fair territory, had some backspin on it hit it and I
25:24
pointed it fair. No one picked it up.
25:27
And then the coach wanted to, he wanted interference.
25:30
He wanted a foul ball. And so we started going through,
25:33
I said the ball hit the bat. You agree with that?
25:36
Yes. I said, so that's not
25:37
interference. And he said but it hit it a
25:41
second time. I said the bat did not hit the
25:43
ball a second time. The ball just hit the bat laying
25:46
on the ground. So now he's going if the ball
25:48
hits detached equipment, I said that's not detached equipment.
25:51
He said to tell me. He says, are you trying to tell
25:53
me that the bat is not equipment?
25:54
I said the bat is not considered detached equipment.
25:57
That's like a glove, a mask, a shin guard.
26:01
And so he pulled the rule book out and I said, this is what the
26:05
my ruling is based on. And basically it's it's a live
26:09
ball and we're going to play. He didn't agree.
26:12
And if he would have said something to me like right to my
26:14
face and said, Joe, you screwed that up or, you know, you really
26:18
messed that up, whatever, I could have lived with that.
26:20
But he went back to the dugout and he yelled and you're a jerk.
26:23
And so of course, he got the pine on the bus, so.
26:31
Yeah, there's a. College coach, by the way.
26:34
Oh, wow. Yeah, there's definitely a way
26:36
to approach it and yeah, and a way not to.
26:43
I, I know this is kind of a stupid question, but, you know,
26:45
we talked about you being in the various halls of fame and
26:48
especially the National USA Softball Hall of Fame.
26:52
How did that feel when you found out you were going to be
26:55
inducted in there? The way USA Softball does it is
26:59
they have their induction ceremony and prior to the
27:02
ceremony they vote on the class for the next year.
27:06
So I had been asked to submit my resume and I never heard
27:09
anything and I just kind of lost track of it.
27:12
And I did not know when the National Council meeting was.
27:18
The year I found out, which was in 22.
27:22
I didn't know anything about it. And I was sitting home watching
27:25
a a game and all of a sudden I started getting phone calls and
27:30
they're saying congratulations. And I said congratulations for
27:33
what they go, you got in the Hall of Fame.
27:35
I go what all of and they go USA softball.
27:37
And I like, I knew like because I was like, what else are they?
27:40
You know what that's going to be.
27:41
But, you know, I didn't even think about it because I didn't
27:44
know when the National Council meeting was.
27:47
And then they sent me a video of the announcement.
27:50
And so it was good. So I was great getting a lot of
27:54
calls from people who I knew. A funny thing about that was my
27:58
daughter's always sending us videos.
28:01
So I had sent her the video about, you know, my
28:05
announcement, and it was in October of 22.
28:09
And they said that the induction ceremony was going to be in
28:12
October of 23, but they didn't say the specific date yet.
28:17
And my daughter was getting married in October of 23.
28:21
So when she got the video, she says, oh, my God, dad, what day
28:26
do you know? And I said, no, they didn't tell
28:29
me yet. So thankfully it was a week
28:32
apart. And so my daughter had posted on
28:36
her page that my dad's going to be busy for the next two weeks,
28:39
so with the wedding and then. So yeah, it was, I was, I was
28:49
overwhelmed. I was overwhelmed.
28:51
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and it would have been a
28:53
shame if you had to miss her wedding so.
28:58
I think I would have had to miss this.
29:00
Yeah, but. Smart dad.
29:02
I would have called it in. Yeah, you could have just pulled
29:05
a Sean Penn accepting for Joe Masaro is so and so.
29:09
Yeah, yeah. Time Blue.
29:15
Hey Jay, on a scale of 1 to 10, how important do you think brush
29:19
contact is for pictures? It's pretty high up there Ken,
29:23
probably a 10 since it's hard to get maximum speed and or
29:26
accuracy without it. Yeah I agree, but have you ever
29:29
had a student who struggled to get good light brush contact?
29:33
Sure, all the time, in fact. Especially when they've been
29:37
taught hello elbow and are trying to throw around their
29:39
hips or they're sliding their hips out of the way doing that
29:42
crazy ninja move. So what do you do when you run
29:45
into that situation? Keep railing on them until they
29:48
get it right. I used to do that a lot, but
29:51
then I learned about a product called Pitch Squeak Ken.
29:54
Pitch squeak. What's that?
29:56
It's a cool little armband with a squeaker inside of it.
29:59
Like a dog toy. Yeah, kinda.
30:03
So how does it work? Well, you slip the armband onto
30:06
the pitcher's forearm and you set it so the squeaker is where
30:09
the brush contact should happen. Then when the pitcher goes into
30:13
release, she tries to get it to squeak like this.
30:17
If she makes it happen, she got brush.
30:20
If there's no sound, she knows immediately and can make a
30:23
correction. Wow cool, so she gets immediate
30:26
audible as well as tactile feedback.
30:29
Oh, there you go again, showing off with those big and technical
30:33
words again. But yeah, she can feel it and
30:36
hear it. Does it really work?
30:38
You bet it does. I use it with my students all
30:41
the time and it helps them learn how to get brush contact pretty
30:45
quickly if they practice with it sounds.
30:47
Neat. Where can I get one?
30:49
It's easy, Ken. Just e-mail
30:51
support@pitchsqueak.com and Jason, the inventor of it and a
30:57
Poly Girl certified pitching coach himself, will ask you how
31:00
many you want and send them right out.
31:03
I'll do that today. Thanks, Jay.
31:05
What's that address again? You bet, Ken.
31:08
It's support@pitchsqueak.com one more time for those of you who
31:14
are listening, support@pitchsqueak.com.
31:18
And don't forget to mention in the e-mail that you heard about
31:21
it right here on From the Coach's Mouth podcast and you'll
31:24
receive 10% off play ball. Joe, I want to switch gears a
31:31
little bit. We already talked a little bit
31:32
about the strike zone being smaller and all of that, but I
31:36
want to talk a little bit about about the catchers in the
31:38
framing. Do you, in your opinion, does a
31:40
catcher framing a pitch make a difference and perhaps getting a
31:43
few more strikes called, you know, not not just for you, but
31:47
from what you've observed generally?
31:49
From what I observed, generally I think, yeah, the more the
31:51
catchers try to frame the pitches, they try not to move
31:55
their glove left, right, up, down.
31:57
They just probably try to like turn it one way or another.
32:01
Oh good, because that's what I teach.
32:03
Yeah. And I think that Garner's more
32:05
calls if you have to move it that much and chances are it's
32:08
not a strike. I've never done that.
32:10
One of the things that I always tried to teach my umpires is to
32:16
track the ball entirely through the strike zone.
32:19
Now, if a ball enters the strike zone at the front of the zone
32:24
and it falls through, it's not a strike that that's a good drop
32:28
pitch and you may get people a swing at it, but by definition,
32:31
the ball did not pass entirely through the strike zone,
32:35
assuming the hitter's natural stance.
32:38
So part of the problem, I'm sure you understand this as coaches,
32:42
is that umpires call pitches too quickly.
32:44
Yeah, sometimes. And so if you let the ball
32:47
travel through the entire length of the strike zone, let it hit
32:52
the glove, call the pitch, you're gonna have a more
32:56
consistent and accurate strike zone and there is less of a need
33:01
for all of that framing of stuff.
33:03
And then one of the strategies, you know, people always talk
33:06
about to try to negate a good rise ball or a good drop ball is
33:10
moving into the front of the box.
33:12
But there's also the idea that you can move to the back of the
33:14
box and try to influence the calls that way.
33:17
So if the pitch is dropping, say it gets to the front of the
33:21
plate and then it drops to the to the back of the plate.
33:24
If you're sitting in back, technically it could be a
33:27
strike, but it's going to be awfully hard to call.
33:29
I mean, do you agree with that or how how is an umpire, do you
33:32
adjust for that sort of thing? You have to just assume the
33:35
batter is normal stance at home plate.
33:38
I mean, I've had kids move up in the box a little bit, but not a
33:41
lot. And I very rarely had anybody
33:43
move back in the box. Very rarely.
33:46
I mean, I see it a little bit more now.
33:49
I retired in 2016 from umpiring. I didn't see it that much then.
33:53
I do see it a little bit more now in the games I do get to
33:56
watch. It's something, and I know a lot
33:58
of kids are not comfortable this kind of like they have their
34:00
spot, they're like Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang Theory.
34:04
That's my spot. Moving up and moving back is not
34:08
something that they're very comfortable with.
34:09
So that could be problem too here.
34:11
Here's a question again, something that when I work with
34:13
catchers, you know, I, I teach them to go out and introduce
34:17
themselves to the umpire before the game.
34:19
I give them a little patter that they can do.
34:22
When you were umpiring, did you like that?
34:23
And, you know, if it was somebody you didn't know, I
34:25
mean, obviously if when you're doing some of the College of the
34:28
International stuff, you probably see the same people all
34:31
the time. But for a new kid, you know,
34:33
somebody out there, you know, if you were doing a youth game or
34:36
something like that, you know, and the kid, the catcher comes
34:38
out and introduces themselves and says, hey, you know, I'm
34:41
here, don't worry, I got you covered here.
34:43
You know, this is going to be a great game.
34:45
We appreciate you being here. Did you like having them do that
34:48
or was that kind of a waste of time for you?
34:50
It it never really bothered me. I I like that the fact that the
34:54
catchers would come out and say hi, Blue, how are you today?
34:57
Basically, that was the extent of it for most of them.
34:59
Or good to see you again, whatever, you know.
35:03
But for the most part, you know, they didn't do it till they came
35:05
out to warm up the pitcher in in the top of the first or maybe
35:09
the bottom, you know, first time out there for each catcher,
35:11
right? So Joe, I want to talk a little
35:14
bit about some of the rule changes and stuff like that
35:16
that's that's been going on. Do you think that the recent
35:19
rule changes such as allowing leaping or the revisions to the
35:23
obstruction rules have made it easier or more difficult to call
35:26
a good game? In the beginning it always seems
35:29
to be a little bit more difficult, but as as you go on,
35:32
you have to kind of get used to it.
35:35
It's a tough thing because some people are just not in agreement
35:39
with the rules. But you know what?
35:40
That's not your job. Your job is to enforce the
35:43
rules. And some of them, some of the
35:45
changes make it a little difficult to call, but you've
35:49
got to adapt and learn the rule in order to be, I think,
35:54
successful as an umpire. Was there a particular rule that
35:57
you just hated like cash? I wish they would change this or
36:00
I hate calling this or it's just it's this is really difficult to
36:04
call. Off the top of my head, I can't
36:06
think of 1. I know when they came in with
36:09
the rule that if a if a batter runner who was struck out and
36:15
there was a runner on first took off for first base, you could
36:19
deem it interference because they're trying to force a throw
36:24
that they the catcher has no no need to make because the
36:29
batter's automatically out. And then they said, well, what
36:33
if, well, what if she's throwing to get the runner from First
36:35
off, you know, that's off the base too far.
36:39
So then you had to be a judge and decide not only is it, you
36:43
know, your, your normal judgements that you have to do,
36:45
but now you're trying to be inside the person's mind.
36:48
Are they trying to get the runner who's off first?
36:51
Again, it's if the base is occupied at the time of the
36:54
pitch. So you'll have one out or no
36:56
outs, 3 two and a runner takes off.
36:58
Well guess what? That battered runner still can't
37:01
run because first base was occupied at the time of the
37:03
pitch. Even though the runner is
37:05
attempting to steal in second, you know you have to put in
37:08
things to prevent things from going haywire.
37:11
What I used to do in that situation was if I knew the
37:15
runner could not run, I would say you can't run.
37:17
You're out because a drop third strike is just strike three if
37:21
the runner has the ability to go to first base, right?
37:24
So I would say you're out. You can't run.
37:28
And then if they ran that I could easily call interference
37:31
if a throw is made because now I've given them an opportunity
37:35
to correct the situation. Albeit 2 seconds worth but.
37:40
Yeah, no, that, that makes sense.
37:41
If you if you announce it ahead of time then or you say it right
37:45
then and there, then if they continue on, it's a little bit
37:48
different. I would think that the one word
37:51
in the English language that every umpire hates is the word
37:54
intention. They throw it in the rules as
37:56
kind of like, well, we don't know, so we'll just leave it up
37:59
to the umpire. What was the person's intention?
38:02
And you were kind of hinting at that.
38:03
It's always tough, so you kind of have to make a decision, but
38:06
sometimes their actions play out and it's easier to make a call
38:11
when they do that. The tougher 1 is, is a base
38:15
running obstruction. Yeah.
38:16
If anything, I, I think I've watched enough of games to know
38:20
that they're calling obstruction on plays, that there's really
38:22
not obstruction. Just an opinion.
38:25
Just an opinion. OK.
38:27
So you're thinking about like the play at the plate where?
38:30
Yep. Or plays in the third, yeah.
38:33
Yep, Where they're there or you know even, what do you think
38:36
about let's say the throws coming in from the outfield and
38:40
the throws a little bit offline in the fielders going to get the
38:43
ball that has to cross into the baseline to get it.
38:45
Is that obstruction to you or is that just incidental contact?
38:49
Well, it depends on what the angle of the ball coming in
38:53
first is. They should be behind.
38:55
They should not be behind the plate.
38:56
They should be in front of the plate.
38:58
The runners coming around from third is clearly going to be, so
39:01
there's no reason for them to be in fair territory.
39:04
So if the catcher has to go up the line, they can run parallel
39:08
or, you know, go into fair territory that there's no reason
39:11
for them to be going out of the baseline, retreating in front of
39:17
where the runner will be coming from because then it's clearly
39:19
going to be obstruction. So, Joe, I want to ask you a
39:22
question. Here a little bit and this is
39:24
more about, you know, I'm sure you've had a lot of chirpers in
39:27
your day, if you will. So does that general join from
39:32
the dugout, the coaches coming on the field or the sidelines
39:35
ever bother you and and how did you deal with it through your
39:38
career? I very rarely had any chirping.
39:41
Like I said before, I only had five ejections and and some of
39:45
them were kind of foolish by the person who got ejected.
39:49
That never bothered me and never did I really have a bad
39:52
situation in my 40 years. I'm being honest.
39:55
And I think that came from being prepared.
39:57
Yeah, that helps. And I would imagine.
39:59
Having a good reputation out there too helps the.
40:03
The the guy who I ejected for calling me a jerk, he called as
40:07
a signer and the guy said, why would you argue the rule book
40:10
with Joe Masaro? And the guy admitted he, he you
40:14
know, he said he, he, you know, he lost control.
40:15
He, he, he shouldn't have said I wasn't sure.
40:18
And the guy says, well, not only were you, he said you also were
40:20
wrong on the rule. What do?
40:25
What do people not understand? About umpires in general, I
40:27
think that a lot of times people view the umpire as an obstacle
40:32
to get through or as the enemy or things like that.
40:36
What? What do they not understand
40:38
about the role of the umpire or, you know, the umpires in
40:41
general? That's a great question because
40:43
there. Are several things.
40:45
One is the first thing. Umpires are human beings, just
40:48
like the players. OK, players make errors, umpires
40:53
make errors. I think when the umpire makes an
40:56
error, some of these coaches and slash parents think that the
41:01
umpire did it on purpose to screw their team or screw the
41:05
player or whatever. So clearly not the case with
41:09
regards to, again, we're human and we're expected to be perfect
41:14
the first time we go out in the field and get better after that.
41:17
You know that that does make it a little difficult for umpires.
41:20
And I'm going to be honest with you, I hate replay and I hate
41:23
replay. Not because we could be
41:25
corrected. I hate replay because replay is
41:28
not being used for the intent that it was meant to be used
41:32
for. I think replay should be used
41:34
for the egregious calls, not for the whackers.
41:38
I had a guy tell me once I got 4 out of 5 right, and he said, and
41:43
that one that we had a look at, we had to look at it like 5
41:45
times. Well, I don't have that option.
41:48
I don't have slow motion replay when I'm out there.
41:51
Replay didn't come into play while I was still on fire.
41:53
And thankfully for me, you know, not that I would have thought it
41:57
made a difference, but I'm just against replay.
42:00
Yeah, I think too. You know, they've been.
42:02
Joe, I've seen this a lot around here.
42:04
Where, where, where we're at here is now they're starting to
42:07
try replay and some of these travel ball games.
42:11
And The funny thing is, is like they're not stopping the clock
42:14
or anything. Like it's not like a college
42:15
game, you know, where they can kind of, you know, take a little
42:18
longer to finish the game here, You know, they're 80 minutes, 90
42:21
minutes or whatever, but they're actually doing like replays on
42:25
some of these travel ball tournaments now.
42:27
And it's just, it just takes the whole game and just slows it
42:30
down to like a a crawl, you know.
42:33
And I think at the travel ball level, I do you think like we
42:37
need to be even using replay? Absolutely not.
42:40
Absolutely. Not and you know, even I've
42:43
noticed at some of the regional matches in the World Series
42:47
regionals and super regional matches, there are so many
42:51
challenges. It's I think it's ridiculous.
42:54
And the other thing is that it takes really long.
42:58
I mean, if you have to look at it that long, then there's not
43:01
enough of convincing evidence to overturn anything.
43:05
And I say this too. I've been coaching a long time.
43:08
Ken has been coaching a long time.
43:10
I say this all the time, anytime that I've ever had a
43:13
questionable call and I and I went out and talked to the
43:16
umpire, they were always willing to go talk to their partner and
43:19
see what their partners saw to try to get the call right.
43:21
I've never really had an umpire. I mean, I, I can't say that I
43:24
have had a few that I said, no, I, you can't ask.
43:27
No, you can't, you can't, you know, question that call, right?
43:30
But most of the times I would say, you know, 95% of the times,
43:34
most of the umpires just want to get together and get it right.
43:36
So you know, the goal is, that's right, your goal.
43:40
And your goal is to be perfect the first time you step on a
43:42
field and get better after that. So yeah, absolutely.
43:47
Again, I think you know when. You're talking about things that
43:49
people don't understand about umpires is they want to get the
43:51
call. They want to get it right
43:52
because they're a part of the game just as much as the players
43:54
are. So, yeah, And my other theory
43:57
about it is. Why do you have replay if you
44:01
you want to look at it again, if someone hits the ball to the
44:04
shortstop and they boot it, do they get a chance to replay the
44:07
the play? No, right.
44:09
So, you know, players are human, umpires are human, there's a
44:13
human element involved. Take replay out.
44:16
Except for the egregious mistakes.
44:20
Yeah, definitely. And and I.
44:22
Want to talk a little bit about like the state of umpiring here
44:25
too for a second with you. You know, in my opinion,
44:28
there's, I think there's just a shortage of especially younger
44:31
umpires. You know, a lot of the umpires
44:33
that I see have been doing it for years because they love it
44:35
and all that stuff. And, and I think a lot of it is
44:38
because of we were talking about a little bit of the chirping and
44:41
all that stuff that that you guys have had to go through.
44:43
And you we've seen, you know, some of the viral clips of some
44:46
of these coaches attacking the umpires after games and, and
44:50
stuff like that. And, and, you know, it's, it's
44:53
becoming more and more difficult to, you know, to staff their
44:56
growing number of games that are needed.
44:58
Are there other factors that you think that play there, you know,
45:01
such as a workload or the pay or typical like style of
45:05
tournament? Is there any of that that's also
45:07
contributing to the lack of, of umpire or lack of of umpires
45:12
needed? Well, there's a couple things
45:14
first. Is in general, especially for
45:16
the beginning umpires, not many are willing to put the work in
45:20
and work their way to the top. Now there's more organizations,
45:24
you know, previously was USA Softball, now there's U triple
45:27
SA and then there's fast and there's NPF and PG.
45:30
I mean, there's a bunch of different organizations.
45:34
So you know, if you're not successful, if you know, if
45:36
you're not getting what you want and one, then go join another.
45:39
That's not good. Some have tried.
45:41
It's not, you know, coaches and parents.
45:45
And in that regard, some have tried.
45:47
It's not as easy as they think. And to me, when I first started
45:51
doing it, I wanted to do it and I had AI, had a passion and a
45:55
drive for it. You have to have a passion.
45:57
You have to have a drive for it because first, if you're in it
46:00
for the money, forget it. And, and you know, there are
46:03
some tournaments where, you know, I've done these
46:06
tournaments where you go work six or seven games and you know,
46:09
when you think for, you know, you had to drive so, so long to
46:13
get there first and then be there at least 1/2 hour to limit
46:17
to an hour to be ready. And then, you know, when you're
46:20
done, go through everything. If you do go through things with
46:23
other partners and then drive home.
46:26
You know, when you think about the rate of pay, sometimes it's
46:29
not that good. But I can tell you that I, and I
46:33
don't know if you guys know this.
46:34
I mean, when I umpired the Olympic qualifier, when I
46:39
umpired the men's World Championships in Prince Edward
46:41
Island, Canada, the qualifier was in Italy.
46:44
You don't get paid a dime for those games, really.
46:47
You get. You do not, you get.
46:49
Your travel to, you know, everything is taken care of for
46:52
you, but there's no actual fee for the Games.
46:55
So to me, it was an honor to be represent the United States over
46:58
in Italy for the Olympic qualifier.
47:01
I was the only US umpire there. You know, they had umpires from
47:04
different parts of the world and not a bad place to take a trip.
47:07
To either No, no, no, not at all.
47:10
Definitely, although we were. Not in the great I.
47:13
Mean we weren't in a bad area. We were just like we weren't any
47:16
of the tourist areas so but yeah not not a bad gig.
47:21
Prince Edward Island, Canada, great place again, no pay for
47:25
the games. You do not get paid for the
47:27
games. Well, that, that's unreal, I
47:29
mean. My assumption would have been
47:32
that you were getting paid extra.
47:33
You know, that's a premium. No, no.
47:37
So one of the things when I recruited used to recruit
47:39
umpires was like first night we would go through like a
47:42
psychological thing about why do you want to get into umpiring?
47:46
And I said the pay is good if you put your do's and your time
47:51
in. I said, but how many of you
47:54
would like to work the Olympics? And of course, a bunch of hands
47:56
go up. I go, you know, if you work the
47:58
Olympics, you don't get paid a dime.
48:02
And it's the truth. You don't.
48:04
And I think part of that is it's a worldwide organization.
48:07
It used to be the International Softball Federation.
48:10
Now it's the World Baseball Softball Confederation, the WBSC
48:14
or whatever they call it. And we even have this in the
48:16
States. Like go do a a fast pitch game
48:20
in New York, you can get 75 bucks.
48:25
Go down to Alabama and do a fast pitch game, you might get 40.
48:30
So, you know, economies of scale with the higher cost to live in
48:34
areas and that kind of thing. Well, again, what would it be?
48:37
Worldwide, same thing. So there's no fee for any of the
48:41
umpires. You get your travel paid for.
48:43
You get your meals paid for and and your hotel and all that kind
48:47
of stuff. But there are no game fees.
48:48
Yeah, well, and I can imagine. That even when you are getting
48:51
paid, let's say you're getting 50 bucks for a game or even
48:53
$75.00 for a game, when you're looking at it and you're doing
48:56
the math, part of it sounds like, hey, doing 1015 games in a
49:00
day is great. Then you're out there in 90°
49:04
heat and 90% humidity back-to-back to back.
49:07
You're just, you know, maybe time to grab a water or two to
49:11
bring out the field. And it's like about halfway
49:13
through that schedule, you're probably rethinking your life
49:16
choices. Yeah, Yeah.
49:18
I mean and. Again, you know, as you move up
49:21
the ladder, you know, you start work more games, you start slow
49:26
and then you hope you get more games and then you get a lot of
49:28
games and then you you want it to slow down a little bit.
49:31
So it it's finding the right balance.
49:33
But if you don't put your time in and you don't put your work
49:37
effort into it, then you're never going to be at a level
49:41
where you're going to have great opportunities.
49:44
I mean, I had great opportunities because I put my
49:46
time in. I worked at it.
49:49
I was umpire and I think for 13 or 14 years before I went to my
49:53
first national tournament where there's some guys, they're
49:56
working them in their first, second or third year because if
49:59
they live in Alabama or Georgia, you know, they host a bunch of
50:03
tournaments every year, national tournaments.
50:05
We don't get to host that many up in the Northeast.
50:08
Well, now that we've talked about all the.
50:09
Negatives and all of the problems and everything with
50:12
being an umpire. What can be done to encourage
50:14
more former players or parents of former players or others to
50:18
pick up the mask and the chess detector?
50:21
Well, again, you have to. You have.
50:22
To want to do it, you have to love it.
50:24
You have to have some sort of a passion and, and be willing to
50:27
say this would be a good hobby for me, not necessarily quote a
50:32
second career, because no one's going to make a career out of
50:34
it. So have it as a hobby and put
50:40
some good effort into it and and you'll and you'll be successful.
50:45
You know, the other thing, too, is are society today seems to be
50:50
like, if you're not at the World Series in two years, all this
50:53
isn't for me. You know, it takes a long time.
50:57
You know, it takes time. And it's, you have to have, as
51:02
they say, the fire in the belly. Yeah.
51:05
So is there anything when you were recruiting?
51:07
Umpires before, was there anything that you looked for
51:10
when you spotted someone and said, hey, I think that person
51:14
might be a good candidate. One is having good.
51:17
Work ethic that you know, you usually can see they're not
51:20
dogging it, they're not being lazy, they're willing to listen.
51:24
And you know, sometimes they'll tell you why they did what they
51:28
did. And all you need to, all I ever
51:30
did was show them a possible better way.
51:34
And I said, if that that's worked for me, try it.
51:37
And if you're willing to try it, then you know, then you know,
51:40
you have someone who you can work with because, you know,
51:44
I've been at tournaments where guys were just awful and it was
51:49
a body count to get people for the tournament.
51:51
And it's unfortunate, but it, it does happen.
51:55
Were there any characteristics? You saw people maybe on the
51:58
sidelines or people around the game that were softball
52:00
adjacent, let's say, where you said, you know, hey, you know,
52:04
have you ever thought about umpiring?
52:07
Yeah, I talked to a couple coaches about.
52:09
It I said, as a matter of fact, if you want, I'll give you the
52:12
indicator and I'll coach and we'll see who does a better job.
52:16
There it is, yeah. But that.
52:19
Same one individual, I mean even his players didn't like that.
52:23
So I mean it happened. His dog didn't walk and.
52:28
Yeah. There's all you know, there's a
52:31
lot of personalities and, and at the end of the day, it's a great
52:35
game. There are places for everybody
52:38
in the game, coaches, umpires, scorekeepers, managers,
52:41
sponsors, players, whatever. You got to find where you fit
52:46
the best. And for me it was umpiring.
52:48
Clearly with umpiring. Awesome.
52:50
So, Ken? Any other questions for Joe?
52:53
I know we're coming up close to an hour here with him, but you
52:56
got any other questions you'd like to ask?
52:58
This is something that I've always.
52:59
Heard that people say? Do you subscribe to the idea
53:02
that if both teams are a little mad at you, that you did a good
53:04
job? Oh no, not at all.
53:08
First it is, you know, you just have to make the calls and live
53:12
with it. I actually had a guy come up to
53:14
me once after a game in a parking lot and he goes, hey,
53:17
blue, that was a great game. I don't think you missed a
53:19
pitch. And I says next time out there,
53:21
I got to do it again. So obviously they're not going
53:24
to. Every team's not going to be
53:25
happy with every pitch or every call.
53:28
I never subscribed to the theory that both teams should be a
53:31
little mad at me. Then I would know.
53:33
I did my job right, You know, because the only thing about
53:38
umpiring is you're automatically making 50% of the people unhappy
53:41
100% of the time. Yeah, very.
53:45
True, true statement right there.
53:47
Very. True and and and another funny
53:49
thing about. That was a friend of mine that I
53:52
started umpiring with, got out of umpiring.
53:55
He became a mayor in the town and I told him, heck, I only
53:59
make half the people unhappy. Yeah, that's great.
54:05
That's. Great.
54:07
That's great. All right.
54:08
So, Joe, we have one more question we'd like to ask.
54:10
All our guests, you know, just to get a feel of the person
54:13
behind the personality. Do you have any hidden talents
54:17
or hobbies, odd hobbies or anything like that, that people
54:21
might be surprised to learn about you?
54:23
No, not really. I'm I'm almost close to.
54:25
Retirement from professional work.
54:28
What do you do for a day from umpiring?
54:30
I own a. Small collection company and we
54:34
do drug testing mostly on athletes actually OK for various
54:38
different organizations. One of the things I like to do
54:40
is go to some of the events where I get to travel to warm
54:43
weather places and have opportunities.
54:46
I try not to work as much on a daily basis, but sometimes I do.
54:49
We're all subcontractors, kind of like umpiring.
54:51
You know if you have a game, you worked it.
54:53
You don't have a game, you're not working.
54:54
We have some pretty big clients as far as the scope of work, so
55:00
that's one of the thing I like to golf.
55:02
Well, you know what they say golf is.
55:04
Golf and sex are two things you don't have to be good at to
55:06
enjoy. Certainly not golf.
55:14
I say I get my money's worth regarding strokes.
55:18
There we go. Me too.
55:19
Me too. Me too, probably.
55:20
More than my money. 'S worth actually.
55:22
Yeah, I mean, I I'd usually be working about.
55:24
Three fairways at a time, one side right in the middle of the
55:27
fairway 22. Two holes over?
55:30
Yep, there it is. Yeah, I resemble.
55:34
That remark yeah, yeah, one, one of the only other things I
55:38
ascribe to which I would never say aloud, OK, was, you know, if
55:43
an umpire misses a call, they'll say you owe me one blue.
55:46
Well, my theory is why should I make 2 mistakes?
55:49
I already know I made one, you know, and there are people who
55:55
do that, make up what they call, make up calls.
55:58
And now you clearly have both teams mad at you.
56:00
So you didn't do a good job and have both teams mad at you.
56:04
So just, you know, hey, no one's perfect.
56:08
You're not getting every pitch right every night.
56:10
You're not getting every call right every night.
56:12
It's about mental preparation more than anything and knowing
56:16
how to manage a game. And the reason I retired was my
56:20
job responsibilities got a lot bigger, wider, and I didn't feel
56:27
that I was mentally prepared to go out and work games, high
56:33
level games that I needed to be at the level at.
56:39
And I was fine on the field, but I could tell my mental
56:42
preparation just wasn't there. And I figured it was time to get
56:46
out. And I, I called all my assignors
56:49
and told them that I was retiring at the time I was 58.
56:53
And they said, well, come on, you can probably go to your
56:55
sixty. You probably got 2 good years
56:57
still in you. And I said I'd rather go 2 years
56:59
too early than two years too. Yeah, for sure.
57:02
So what do you think when? When you're retired from your
57:05
your main gig, do you think you'll ever get back into it?
57:07
No, no. 40 years, perfect time to get out, 25 years in college,
57:14
10 years in the pro league. How many years I did on the
57:17
international circuit, I don't remember.
57:19
But I mean, you don't get a lot of tournaments, but you know,
57:21
you get some international events.
57:23
So I mean, I had great international events, great
57:27
college events, great USA softball events, great TV
57:31
experiences. Don't go back and try to do
57:35
something else. And like I said, I'd rather
57:36
leave two years too early or two years too late.
57:38
Couple years ago they were going to have the Olympic team come
57:41
here and my commissioner, Mike Warner want to meet a umpire the
57:46
game. And I said, oh Mike, I haven't
57:48
been on the field in a couple of years.
57:50
It was 2020. Of course it got cancelled
57:52
because of COVID. But I said like I I donated my
57:55
equipment. I I haven't been on the field in
57:57
four years. He go, I'll buy you new
57:58
equipment. I said no, just I walked off in
58:03
2016 and I'm happy with my decision.
58:07
And I still have a lot of umpire friends and we talk all the time
58:11
and I'm still involved that way. I still have coaches that call
58:14
me and ask me rules. I think even a couple years ago.
58:17
D Abrahamson, when she was still the rules editor chairman,
58:22
called me for a question on with regards to USA softball and NCAA
58:27
softball. So I still have, you know, a lot
58:31
of contacts in that regard and I'm happy where I'm at.
58:36
All right. Umpire Emeritus.
58:37
Awesome. Yeah, once an umpire.
58:40
Always an umpire. That's great.
58:44
Well, Joe? Thank you so much.
58:46
It's been about an hour. We appreciate all the time you
58:49
spent with us and your answers and and just learning a little
58:53
bit about another aspect of the game.
58:55
I don't think most people really understand or can relate to, you
59:00
know, it's just the umpire to somebody that kind of blows in
59:03
and blows off on the fields. So, you know, hearing that
59:07
perspective, I think hopefully folks that are listening learned
59:10
a little bit and maybe we'll give their umpire a little more
59:14
kindness, a little more respect when they're out there.
59:16
Like I said, everyone's human. And everyone has to be willing
59:20
to put the work in on all sides. Kids practice before they play.
59:25
Umpires should umpires. I don't think umpires practice
59:28
enough. That's.
59:30
You know, tough. You go work a game for free,
59:33
just get to get to work in Before my season used to start
59:37
because we would start the first weekend in February for like two
59:41
or three weeks. I would be out of college
59:43
calling pitches for like indoor for pitchers and catchers or,
59:47
you know, just getting some. They were doing some scrimmages
59:50
and we I did it for free. I didn't want any money for it
59:53
and guys would offer me to, you know, hey, you can't even call
59:55
pitches. He drove 45 minutes an hour to
59:57
get here. I go, listen, I need to work as
1:00:01
much as you think. You know, your kids probably
1:00:03
don't need as much work as I do. You know, you guys have been
1:00:06
going for a while, got to jump in there and we don't have.
1:00:10
Pre season games, right? Yeah, you got to be ready to go
1:00:15
pitch one day one. Well, thanks so much, Joe.
1:00:18
Thank you, I appreciate it again want.
1:00:20
To talk a little bit about our promo.
1:00:21
We have going on too, if you don't mind real quick, we have
1:00:23
some T-shirts that we made. So if you can go to Spotify or
1:00:27
Apple podcast and give us a follow and then also share an
1:00:31
episode. If you can show us that you did
1:00:34
that, we will send you out a free T-shirt.
1:00:35
You can just message Ken or I through either the the podcast
1:00:39
on, on Facebook, Facebook or just in, you know, personally
1:00:42
on, on Facebook or any of the social medias.
1:00:45
We'd be happy to send you a T-shirt out.
1:00:47
We do have limited supply. So if you can give us a like on
1:00:50
Spotify, a like on Apple podcast and also share out an episode,
1:00:56
we will send you guys a free T-shirt.
1:00:58
All right, thanks, Jay. Well.
1:01:00
That's it for us this week. Thanks to all of you for
1:01:02
listening and the kind words you've been sharing with us.
1:01:04
If you like what you're hearing, Please remember to give us a
1:01:07
like, leave a comment and share this podcast on your social
1:01:10
media channels. Make sure you never miss an
1:01:12
episode by following us on your favorite podcast platform.
1:01:16
And if you're so inclined, you can also leave us a great review
1:01:19
on Apple Podcasts to help more people find us.
1:01:22
On behalf of the From the Coach's Mouth podcast, have a
1:01:25
great rest of your week and weekend.