Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E25 An Interview with Swire Ho and Michael A Forman

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Networking Unleashed: S1E25 An Interview with Swire Ho and Michael A Forman · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:17
  Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed, building
• 0:21
  profitable connections. Welcome to the show,
• 0:24
  folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
• 0:28
  listening to the podcast where networking is
• 0:30
  more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
• 0:33
  It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
• 0:37
  It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
• 0:41
  Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
• 0:44
  corner at every event, pretending to check your
• 0:47
  emails. Networking isn't just a nice skill to
• 0:50
  have. It's a game changer. And when you get good
• 0:54
  at it, you'll wonder why you didn't start sooner.
• 0:57
  More connections, more opportunities, more profits.
• 1:02
  It's like unlocking a cheat code for life. So
• 1:06
  whether you're the life of the party or the just
• 1:09
  let me stay at home and text type, We've got
• 1:11
  something for you. Stick around. Let's turn those
• 1:15
  awkward small talk moments into big wins. Hello,
• 1:20
  everybody. Now, I have an exciting guest. His
• 1:24
  name is Swire Ho. And he was born and raised
• 1:28
  in Hong Kong, but he immigrated to Los Angeles
• 1:31
  in 1996. And he's done so much. He has such a
• 1:36
  vast background that I would do it an injustice.
• 1:39
  if I tried to tell you. So let me just introduce
• 1:42
  you. Swire, how are you? And welcome to the show.
• 1:46
  I'm doing well, Michael. Thanks for having me
• 1:47
  on your show. Good. I'm glad you're here, first
• 1:51
  of all. Why don't you tell us a little bit about
• 1:53
  yourself? My name is Swire, and thanks for the
• 1:58
  introduction. I came to LA in 1996. I originally
• 2:03
  wanted to be in entertainment, but I don't play,
• 2:07
  I don't act, I'm not good looking. But I wanted
• 2:09
  to be in the entertainment industry, so I studied
• 2:11
  and became a recording engineer. So I worked
• 2:15
  there for a couple of years. Fast forward a little
• 2:19
  bit on the day of my honeymoon, I found out that
• 2:21
  the company that I worked for at the time went
• 2:23
  out of business. So that started my entrepreneurial
• 2:26
  journey. So started first in the CD, DVD replication
• 2:30
  business. If you're old enough like me, back
• 2:32
  in the days, people still buy a lot of this.
• 2:35
  I'm in the right place at the right time. So
• 2:38
  did that for about 10 years. In 2013, we sold
• 2:41
  the business to a competitor in LA. So hindsight,
• 2:44
  that was very good timing. So got into. promotional
• 2:48
  product business. And now I call myself the promo
• 2:51
  guy and have been in the promo industry for about
• 2:54
  12 years now. Good, good. Wow, that's great.
• 2:58
  And seems like your timing was perfect in just
• 3:01
  about everything that you've done. But let's
• 3:04
  switch this around a little bit. How has strategic
• 3:08
  networking played a role in your ability to turn
• 3:12
  creative ideas into successful business projects?
• 3:17
  I wish I know more about networking. Like when
• 3:21
  I was younger, like I love networking. This is
• 3:25
  what I do. This is how I find business. But for
• 3:28
  example, now my son is a sophomore in college
• 3:31
  right now. So my advice to him at this point
• 3:34
  will be you should network with the alumni, with
• 3:37
  your professors, with other students, friends
• 3:40
  that you have. Because I tell him, he always
• 3:44
  complained to me that the job market is tough,
• 3:46
  right? There's a lot of people who want the same
• 3:48
  job. But I told him most positions, like even
• 3:50
  the executive positions, are taken before they're
• 3:54
  even on the market. Why? Because people network,
• 3:56
  people know who is up and coming, who they want
• 3:59
  to work with, who they want to be on the team.
• 4:02
  So those dream position actually might not be
• 4:05
  on the market, but you're able to get through
• 4:07
  them through networking. So I think that could
• 4:09
  relate to business as well. Like the best deal
• 4:12
  out there are not in the open for request for
• 4:15
  quote. It's already given through handshakes,
• 4:18
  networking, and then people working from behind
• 4:21
  the scenes. You're absolutely right. And let's
• 4:24
  just go back a little bit. You said your son
• 4:26
  was in college and you told him that networking
• 4:30
  was so important. I can't begin to tell you how
• 4:33
  right you are, because even today where I have
• 4:38
  friends in. high places, they network through
• 4:43
  their college buddies and they do work. One guy
• 4:47
  goes hunting and invites all of his college buddies
• 4:50
  with him and they talk business over hunting.
• 4:54
  Everything is networking. Networking is so crucial.
• 4:58
  And what goes with that is the trust. The trust
• 5:04
  factor is so big and so important that when you
• 5:08
  go to college with these guys, you have that
• 5:10
  built in. So half your battle has been fought
• 5:13
  already. Okay, so what are some key strategies
• 5:18
  you use to build and maintain strong business
• 5:21
  relationships that lead to profitable collaborations?
• 5:27
  I think one of the key to success, if I can use
• 5:30
  that word, is I like to... follow up with my
• 5:33
  customer? Because think about, listener can think
• 5:35
  about your experience right now. When is the
• 5:37
  last time that a sales rep or a representative
• 5:40
  checked in with you after you purchased from
• 5:43
  them? Chances are not that often, but if you
• 5:46
  are in business development, if you are a business
• 5:49
  owner, why don't you check in with your customer?
• 5:52
  Ask them a few questions. Are you happy with
• 5:55
  the product and services that we provided? And
• 5:58
  then you listen. Sometimes they will give you
• 6:00
  concern. Sometimes they will complain a little
• 6:02
  bit. I wish you could deliver on Thursday instead
• 6:05
  of Wednesday. If this is something that you could
• 6:07
  solve or do quickly, do that without them asking
• 6:11
  you again. So you'll be surprised how you could
• 6:15
  build on your customer loyalty that way just
• 6:17
  because you listen. Most big companies don't
• 6:21
  listen. Or if you try to complain, they have
• 6:24
  a whole department just listen to you, but then
• 6:27
  that they're not going to do anything. You're
• 6:30
  absolutely right. And the follow -up, I'm jumping
• 6:33
  ahead like towards the end of the podcast already,
• 6:35
  but the follow -up is so crucial and so important
• 6:39
  with your customer base. What system do you use
• 6:44
  for follow -up and how do you follow up? I have
• 6:49
  a plan that works for me. So obviously, everyone
• 6:51
  is in different business and do different things.
• 6:54
  Actually, I think the best one that I have learned
• 6:56
  is from a financial planner. So what he does,
• 6:59
  obviously, the cycle that he signed up a client
• 7:02
  is longer than when you buy promotional product
• 7:05
  is faster transactional. But what he would do
• 7:08
  is he actually set up for customer loyalty and
• 7:11
  his referral. He has this planner. So before
• 7:13
  he signed up a client, he would tell them, we're
• 7:16
  going to work together. We're very excited. If
• 7:18
  all goes well, if I'm able to provide what you're
• 7:20
  looking for, would you be willing to refer me
• 7:23
  to your friends or colleagues or family member?
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  So he already set that in place. A couple months
• 7:28
  during the time worked together, they... check
• 7:31
  in, make sure that they're happy. And then he
• 7:33
  go ask for that questions again. So the amount
• 7:36
  of referral that he could receive as a financial
• 7:38
  planner, that skyrocket. So there are different
• 7:41
  ways that we could do that. For me, I'll ask
• 7:43
  my customer if I know that they work in a larger
• 7:47
  organization, the same question, do you have
• 7:49
  any colleagues that could use promotional product?
• 7:52
  Would you mind to introduce me to them? That's
• 7:55
  how I'm able to build my relationship. You think
• 7:58
  it's slow, but... one at a time, one at a time,
• 8:01
  then what if you never lose any customer? Then
• 8:04
  how is your business going to grow in five years
• 8:07
  or 10 years? Absolutely. I used to be a mortgage
• 8:11
  banker. And we did almost the very same thing
• 8:15
  for referrals. Now, they said you should ask
• 8:19
  for referrals when you're just starting out,
• 8:21
  when you first start with that customer or client.
• 8:25
  But I didn't do that. I waited until we were
• 8:28
  about halfway through and said, are you happy
• 8:31
  so far? And they would, of course, say yes. I
• 8:34
  would ask for a referral. And at the end, when
• 8:37
  they were so happy, I would ask for a referral.
• 8:40
  So I would ask twice. in the sales cycle. And
• 8:43
  it came back to me very well. What communication
• 8:46
  techniques do you use to gain trust and influence
• 8:51
  in a corporate setting? I think the way it's
• 8:55
  changing right now, and you mentioned it in the
• 8:57
  beginning of the show, Michael, like there are
• 9:00
  a generation now, they don't like to speak over
• 9:02
  the phones anymore. Some of my clients, I can
• 9:04
  never get them over the phone. Email maybe, but
• 9:07
  they do text and they will be available. a lot
• 9:10
  longer if I text them. So I try to adapt, I try
• 9:13
  to accommodate, right? So maybe they only do
• 9:16
  LinkedIn DM. Maybe they only do text messages
• 9:19
  after 4 .30 PM. So I make notes in my CRM system,
• 9:23
  what they like to do and how I'm able to reach
• 9:26
  them. Some of them still available before 8 AM,
• 9:29
  before the madness start, as people call it.
• 9:32
  So I learn how people like to communicate. I
• 9:36
  learn, adapt to the style. that they like to
• 9:39
  do things. Some people are more straight on point.
• 9:42
  Some people like to see a lot of options. So
• 9:45
  as networking, you got to be open to everyone.
• 9:49
  There's not one style for networking. It's just
• 9:53
  when you go to different situation, different
• 9:55
  networking groups, there are different dynamics.
• 9:57
  You might have to shift what works for you at
• 10:00
  other locations. Do you network in any way, person
• 10:05
  to person anymore? I do. I still go to a lot
• 10:09
  of in -person networking. I think those actually
• 10:11
  works for me better. A lot of buyers, they would
• 10:14
  normally don't answer my email, don't take my
• 10:16
  phone call. If I see them face to face, at least
• 10:19
  I'll get a face time for a couple of minutes
• 10:21
  to make an impression. So I think if you are
• 10:24
  targeting larger account, if you know the buyer
• 10:28
  or the decision maker is going to be there, you
• 10:30
  should be there. Absolutely. Listen, I am a firm
• 10:34
  believer in networking face -to -face. Networking
• 10:38
  so when you walk into a room, you feel the vibe
• 10:41
  of the room, you feel the vibe of the person,
• 10:43
  and you see a lot more of what he does or she
• 10:46
  does and how they do business, and you can do
• 10:50
  business the very same way. Okay, so when presenting
• 10:54
  a new idea or project, How do you communicate
• 10:58
  its value in a way that resonates with corporate
• 11:01
  leaders and stakeholders? Then you have to do
• 11:05
  your research. So I think we're fortunate versus
• 11:08
  back in the days in the CD business that we are...
• 11:12
  Having fingertips, a lot of the information,
• 11:14
  the bio, what people have done or what the corporation
• 11:17
  has done. So when you actually speak to them
• 11:20
  in person or via virtual meeting, you know a
• 11:23
  lot about them already. So with the rise of AI,
• 11:26
  it's actually easier. You could, if there are
• 11:28
  someone, if you do a search, something's got
• 11:31
  to pull up. So if you don't know your client
• 11:35
  or the company or what the project is going to
• 11:38
  be out, when you walk into a meeting, you lost
• 11:40
  the account. So people want to be known, people
• 11:43
  want to see, show me that you know me, right?
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  So when we talk to someone, if we could relate
• 11:48
  to them, if we can build a rapport quickly, then
• 11:52
  the chances of them opening up for our question
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  to answer things that we know is a lot higher.
• 11:59
  But when you see someone... It seems like you
• 12:01
  have not been preparing and you don't know nothing
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  about their project or their pain point. Then
• 12:07
  you probably get shut out or that meeting is
• 12:09
  going to end pretty quickly. It's true. There's
• 12:13
  a mantra in networking. If they know you, like
• 12:16
  you and trust you, they'll do business with you
• 12:19
  and know you and like you. That's pretty easy.
• 12:23
  Look, you're a nice guy. You're a good looking
• 12:25
  guy. Everything goes all right. But that trust
• 12:28
  factor is so important. And I stole this idea,
• 12:33
  by the way, but I have a system. It's called
• 12:36
  FORM, F -O -R -M, Family, Occupation, Recreation,
• 12:41
  and a Message. And you get the person to talk
• 12:45
  about themselves because people love to talk
• 12:47
  about themselves. And the more that they talk
• 12:50
  about themselves, that wall comes down a little
• 12:53
  and the trust factor goes up. It's very integral.
• 12:59
  It's very important that you gain the trust and
• 13:02
  that you have them talk about themselves so that
• 13:05
  all that comes together at the same time. What
• 13:08
  are some of the most effective ways you expand
• 13:11
  your professional network with the right people
• 13:14
  who can turn your ideas into reality? I think
• 13:19
  going tied to the previous point that you make,
• 13:22
  right? So people love to work with experts. So
• 13:25
  how can you make yourself become an expert in?
• 13:29
  You don't necessarily have to be the best, but
• 13:32
  then if you're the most well -known or if you
• 13:34
  appear to be an expert in your industry, people
• 13:37
  will likely get that conversation with you better.
• 13:40
  So actually, again, I learned from a PR expert.
• 13:44
  Her title was, she asked me, how do you become
• 13:47
  the go -to expert in your industry? So you think
• 13:49
  about that, listener. If you have, when I mentioned
• 13:52
  coffee, when I mentioned luxury watches, when
• 13:55
  I mentioned vacation, you already have. some
• 13:58
  brand or some places in mind, why would they
• 14:00
  come up like that? So in your industry, how can
• 14:04
  you become that person or that few person people
• 14:07
  will mention when they mention your industry?
• 14:10
  So I think if I'm able to do that, and if listener
• 14:13
  can able to get to those point, so the conversation
• 14:16
  will be a lot easier, right? So if you're the
• 14:20
  expert, you could probably afford to charge more.
• 14:23
  than people who are regular. So it's my continued
• 14:26
  journey, try to become the expert. That's why
• 14:30
  I'm doing the podcast. I love doing podcasts.
• 14:32
  Because if you people get the perception that
• 14:36
  if you could talk about what you do, you probably
• 14:38
  know what you're talking about. Sometime. That's
• 14:43
  good. That's good because your goal is to be
• 14:47
  the expert in your field and all of this is part
• 14:50
  of it. But I'm sure that you've made mistakes
• 14:53
  in the past. Okay. So just give me a general
• 14:57
  idea of the mistakes you've made and how did
• 15:00
  you overcome them? i'm not good at small talking
• 15:04
  not at all like you mentioned in the beginning
• 15:07
  as well trying to hide in the corner and pretend
• 15:10
  i'm doing email i do that still nowadays like
• 15:13
  even after almost 20 years now so what i overcome
• 15:18
  those mistakes because i get nervous when I walk
• 15:21
  into a room with sometimes 100 people that I
• 15:24
  don't know, I follow my routine, I need to warm
• 15:27
  up. So I normally will actually go to the magnet,
• 15:31
  right, the alpha in the in the meeting or in
• 15:34
  the event itself. I don't talk to anyone, right?
• 15:37
  They they're welcoming there. They know everybody.
• 15:39
  So I know by talking to him. or her, they will
• 15:43
  give me a lot of energy. They will ask me a lot
• 15:45
  of questions because they know what they're doing.
• 15:47
  And after the conversation, I'll ask them to
• 15:50
  introduce me to people that I might want to know.
• 15:53
  I wanted to tell them who I'm trying to meet,
• 15:58
  what kind of company works for me, and maybe
• 16:01
  what I'm here for. A lot of times they will point
• 16:03
  me to the right direction. So I think... I need
• 16:06
  to work on my small talk, but I'll continue to
• 16:09
  do my warm -up talk so that I become better after
• 16:12
  I warm up in networking. That's very good. And
• 16:16
  it's really important that you do that warm -up
• 16:20
  and that you practice because this is a skill
• 16:23
  like anything else, okay? The more you practice,
• 16:27
  the better you get. And I do a whole thing when
• 16:30
  I go on stages and I coach people. whether they
• 16:34
  are introverts or extroverts. If they're introverts,
• 16:38
  it's not much different than an extrovert. I
• 16:41
  have what's called a wingman and I'll go into
• 16:45
  that later on. It's really not much different,
• 16:47
  but you're doing the right thing because you're
• 16:49
  practicing to get to be better. And once you're
• 16:53
  better, you become the expert in your field and
• 16:55
  then everything opens up for you. Okay. Can you
• 16:59
  share a time? when a connection helped you overcome
• 17:04
  a challenge and open doors, an unexpected opening
• 17:09
  of the doors? Yeah, actually a recent example.
• 17:12
  So I'm not going to name names, but I went to
• 17:16
  a conference for a hospital organization last
• 17:19
  year. So I met all the buyers, all the important
• 17:22
  people. So there were a lot of people, big events.
• 17:25
  So I talked to the main buyer of a hospital group.
• 17:28
  They have about... 20 ,000 employees in LA. So
• 17:31
  bigger count for me potentially. But as those
• 17:33
  type of meeting, a lot of people are jumping
• 17:35
  onto the person as well. So I actually get maybe
• 17:38
  two minutes of FaceTime. Nothing happened. I
• 17:41
  checked in. I do all my email. He's busy. But
• 17:44
  I met him again in November, right? At another
• 17:47
  separate event. So he remember we met. So we
• 17:51
  continue to talk. Still nothing happened until
• 17:54
  about two months ago. I email him and I keep
• 17:58
  following up with him. And he said, OK, actually,
• 18:00
  do you have an opportunity for you? And we get
• 18:03
  connected. And now we are getting little orders
• 18:06
  from that big hospital group. So I think the
• 18:09
  challenge and then for a lot of us is we're all
• 18:13
  busy. Right. Do you ever forget your follow up?
• 18:16
  How often do you follow up? Like at what point?
• 18:20
  Do you give up? A lot of us give up after maybe
• 18:23
  a couple of tries, maybe five tries. I think
• 18:26
  like the longest I follow up with a person and
• 18:29
  open up door, I think it was five years. That's
• 18:34
  a long time. That's a long time. It's really,
• 18:37
  there's in the sales force, you have to reach
• 18:41
  out and touch somebody. touch their email, talk
• 18:45
  to them, whatever, like six to 12 times before
• 18:49
  they would respond to you. So you have to put
• 18:52
  a lot of work into this while you're not getting
• 18:55
  any response, but you have to keep at it. Now,
• 18:59
  I emailed somebody about seven months ago. It
• 19:03
  was an event planner that I wanted to talk at
• 19:05
  this show. And nothing, crickets, nothing for
• 19:10
  seven months. Last month, she emailed me and
• 19:14
  talking as if we were talking for the entire
• 19:16
  seven months. So it's mind blowing. But once
• 19:21
  you extinguish your options with a potential
• 19:25
  client, let's say, because I have a secret sauce
• 19:28
  for following up. And after all of that, if they
• 19:32
  still don't want to talk to me, I put them onto
• 19:35
  my drip campaign. In other words, they're emailed
• 19:39
  once a month just to keep me in front of them
• 19:41
  and keep me top of mind. Okay, so never give
• 19:46
  up. Practice, but never give up. If someone wanted
• 19:49
  to strengthen their business communication and
• 19:52
  networking skills, what's the first step that
• 19:55
  they should take? They should definitely learn
• 19:59
  more about their ideal client, meaning that we
• 20:02
  all have our ideal client. One that will spend
• 20:05
  the most money with you, one that will pay you
• 20:07
  full price, and you love working with them. So
• 20:10
  if you have not figured out who your ideal clients
• 20:12
  are, you should definitely do that. And after
• 20:15
  you know who your ideal clients are, think about
• 20:17
  their demographics. Think about what they like
• 20:20
  to do. Are they golfers? Are they going to be
• 20:22
  at the gym? Are they going to be at a corporate
• 20:25
  retreat? And once you identify all those things,
• 20:29
  you got to be there. So if they're a soccer game,
• 20:32
  you go to a soccer game. If they are only hanging
• 20:34
  out at a country club, you got to get a membership.
• 20:37
  So I think these are very important questions.
• 20:40
  A lot of us sometimes run in circles. We attend
• 20:43
  a lot of meetings, and then we complain that
• 20:45
  it's not good for us because you're not going
• 20:48
  to the right event, even though an event might
• 20:52
  cost you, let's say, $1 ,000 to attend. If your
• 20:55
  ideal clients are going to be there, there is
• 20:57
  really you should consider doing that. Yes, free
• 21:01
  meeting is good. Virtual meeting, no cost, not
• 21:03
  good. But are you finding your ideal clients
• 21:05
  there? So I think if you can answer the question
• 21:08
  for who your ideal clients are, the rest of what
• 21:11
  you're looking for will follow. Very good. Very
• 21:14
  good. And so let's bring this full swing. All
• 21:17
  right. Tell me, Swire, what is your favorite
• 21:20
  marketing tactic that you would employ today?
• 21:27
  I would still find people where they are, especially
• 21:30
  I will find an industry that none of my competitors
• 21:35
  are there. Because if you think about in my industry
• 21:38
  and promotional product, people think it's a
• 21:40
  commodity. But then if I talk to the right people,
• 21:43
  which has the right pain point that I can solve,
• 21:46
  then it will be easier. It's a no brainer conversation.
• 21:49
  You know, going back to what I just said, to
• 21:52
  find out my ideal clients, no more. about them
• 21:56
  than they know about themselves. If you can do
• 21:59
  that, then you are in a good point. If they only
• 22:02
  hang out in a certain place, really, you should
• 22:04
  go there. Or if they only play, if they all play
• 22:07
  pickleball, for example, or if they all do running,
• 22:10
  you got to take up the hobby. So I think really,
• 22:13
  if you are strategic, and you wanted to make
• 22:16
  best use of your time, knowing where they are,
• 22:19
  what they like, and then do and meet them there.
• 22:23
  Great. Okay. So let me ask you a question. So
• 22:26
  if you were to give me one idea that my listeners
• 22:30
  could take away from everything you've said,
• 22:33
  they could take away and they could employ it
• 22:36
  today or tomorrow, what would you suggest that
• 22:39
  would be? I think I'm going to put in technology
• 22:43
  in there as well. Assume that your ideal client,
• 22:46
  or even if you are new in business, you don't
• 22:48
  know who your ideal client are. Do you dream
• 22:50
  of the perfect client, right? One that pay you
• 22:53
  full price. You're happy to work with them and
• 22:55
  they buy, they love buying your product or services,
• 22:58
  right? And then you go in and ask AI, act as
• 23:02
  your industry. I'm trying to target these are
• 23:05
  my client. Where are they mostly located? What
• 23:09
  kind of events do they hang out? What kind of
• 23:11
  magazines do they read? What kind of social media
• 23:14
  platform are they most likely to be on? And then
• 23:17
  learn, at least in a general sense, AI can give
• 23:20
  you that feedback. And then now you can do your
• 23:23
  own research to confirm, are the ideal client
• 23:26
  really on those platforms? Are they really at
• 23:28
  those events? Then do yourself a favor to go
• 23:31
  to those events, sign up for maybe their conferences,
• 23:34
  and be on the social media platform that they
• 23:37
  have, and then engage conversation with them.
• 23:40
  That's great. Swire, if somebody wanted to get
• 23:43
  hold of you, either they wanted to buy your services
• 23:46
  or they just wanted to talk to you, what's the
• 23:49
  best way that they would get hold of you? I'm
• 23:51
  most active on LinkedIn. So you could go on LinkedIn,
• 23:54
  just type in Swire Ho. You'll find me and happy
• 23:57
  to connect with everyone. I think in order to
• 24:01
  be an expert, another point that the PR expert
• 24:04
  told me. A lot of time nowadays after the conversation,
• 24:08
  a client would definitely Google your name and
• 24:10
  Google your company. What would they see when
• 24:12
  they type in your name or your company? Are they
• 24:16
  good things or are they the bad reviews that
• 24:18
  people have been living behind you? Try my name,
• 24:20
  Swirehole, hashtag the promo guy and to see what.
• 24:23
  So if you could plan. even on social media and
• 24:27
  on web search about the content or the material
• 24:31
  that you want people to see. And then people
• 24:33
  will start thinking you as the expert because
• 24:35
  it's why it's not just on the web, on social
• 24:37
  media, talking about cooking, talking about his
• 24:40
  backyard hobbies. He's talking about his industry.
• 24:43
  So yeah, he has been in industry for a while.
• 24:45
  So I encourage everyone to try that and see if
• 24:49
  that works for you. That's great. Swire, I can't
• 24:53
  thank you enough. This was a great podcast. And
• 24:56
  thank you for coming on my show. Thanks, Michael.
• 25:01
  Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let
• 25:04
  me just read a few of our sponsors that we have.
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  to revvedupkids .org. That's R -E -V -V -E -D
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  -U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
• 26:21
  folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
• 26:23
  for sharing such incredible insights today. And
• 26:27
  of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
• 26:30
  listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
• 26:33
  with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
• 26:37
  perfect. It's about being present. So take what
• 26:40
  you've learned today, get out there and make
• 26:43
  some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
• 26:46
  episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
• 26:49
  a review and share it with someone who could
• 26:51
  use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
• 26:55
  the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
• 26:59
  Spotify, YouTube or my website. Michael A. Foreman,
• 27:03
  remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep
• 27:07
  connecting, and keep building those relationships.
• 27:10
  This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take
• 27:13
  care and happy networking.