Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / EPSTEIN BROTHER FURIOUS: THIS IS NO "DIRT-NAP" NOTE

Transcript

EPSTEIN BROTHER FURIOUS: THIS IS NO "DIRT-NAP" NOTE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Tonight. Jeffrey Epstein's brother is furious, insisting this is no
0:06
Speaker 1: dirt nap note, no cyonara, no goodbye note, no death note.
0:11
Speaker 1: It didn't happen. He says. The handwriting doesn't match good evening.
0:17
Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is crime stories. I want
0:20
Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us.
0:28
Speaker 2: It was not the udicial death certificate said on the
0:34
Speaker 2: cause of death.
0:35
Speaker 3: Depending further study. They came out of the autopsy saying that.
0:39
Speaker 2: They couldn't call it us because it looked too much
0:41
Speaker 2: like a homicide.
0:44
Speaker 1: Was Jeffrey Epstein murdered behind bars just before reams tons
0:52
Speaker 1: volumes of top secret information was set to be released
0:57
Speaker 1: And what in that information points to if it does
1:01
Speaker 1: to wealthy, privileged, powerful individuals from all around the world
1:07
Speaker 1: joining us Tonight's special guest Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein,
1:12
Speaker 1: who insists this was no death note straight out to
1:17
Speaker 1: special guests joining us tonight, Mark Epstein, this is Jeffrey
1:21
Speaker 1: Epstein's brother. He, along with many, are convinced Jeffrey Epstein
1:27
Speaker 1: was murdered from behind bars and it's not just his
1:31
Speaker 1: blood brother, saying that multiple medical examiners and medical professionals
1:37
Speaker 1: death investigators agree. Mark Epstein, thank you for being with
1:41
Speaker 1: us tonight.
1:42
Speaker 3: It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
1:45
Speaker 1: What was your response when you heard claims that handwriting
1:49
Speaker 1: handwriting experts insist your brother wrote the recent note.
1:57
Speaker 2: I'm surprised to hear that because I was given a
2:00
Speaker 2: report where they compared that note to three other things
2:03
Speaker 2: that they know Jeffrey wrote, and they said it's not
2:05
Speaker 2: the same, So, you know, but more more important than
2:09
Speaker 2: that note was I'll get back to, okay, is that
2:12
Speaker 2: you know I've been talking about the report that's being
2:14
Speaker 2: done about Jeffrey's murder. They were studying the autopsy like
2:19
Speaker 2: it should have been studied years ago, and they the
2:23
Speaker 2: report will be out soon. It's currently being peer reviewed.
2:26
Speaker 2: But I've been read part of that report. Again, the
2:28
Speaker 2: report is not being done on my behalf. I'm not
2:31
Speaker 2: paying for this. It's independent pathologists, and they inclusively decided
2:36
Speaker 2: that Jeffrey could not have taken himself out because the
2:40
Speaker 2: due to the injuries and bruises on his body, they
2:43
Speaker 2: could not have been self inflicted. So they know for
2:46
Speaker 2: fact that he was killed because it could not he
2:49
Speaker 2: could not have done it.
2:50
Speaker 3: Himself.
2:51
Speaker 2: Now, if we go back to the note, this note
2:54
Speaker 2: sort of after the July incident where they thought there
2:58
Speaker 2: was they were saying there was an attempt by Jeffrey
3:00
Speaker 2: to take himself out. Now we know that's not the case.
3:03
Speaker 2: We know that his cellmate roughed him up. And after
3:07
Speaker 2: that incident in July, Jeffrey reported that his cellmate ruffed
3:11
Speaker 2: him up and that's documented. You can find that in
3:14
Speaker 2: the reports in the files. Later soon thereafter, he recanted
3:19
Speaker 2: and then he said he couldn't remember what happened.
3:21
Speaker 3: You know what happened.
3:22
Speaker 2: He changed his story because he didn't want to be
3:25
Speaker 2: retaliated against. It's one thing to be in prison as
3:29
Speaker 2: a pedophile, it's also not a good thing to be
3:32
Speaker 2: in prison as a snitch. So he said he didn't
3:34
Speaker 2: remember what happened. That's why he was taken off of
3:38
Speaker 2: watch so quickly. Now that we know, we know that
3:42
Speaker 2: it was not an attempt to take himself out, Therefore
3:44
Speaker 2: there would be no reason for there to be a
3:47
Speaker 2: note of that kind.
3:49
Speaker 1: Wow, Mark Epstein, you just did a massive data dub
3:55
Speaker 1: on me, and that is a lot of information to
3:58
Speaker 1: take in. And when you explain it the way you
4:01
Speaker 1: just did. It makes perfect sense. Let me understand, there
4:05
Speaker 1: were claims that your brother, Jeffrey Epstein tried to hurt
4:10
Speaker 1: himself back in July. You are saying that is not true,
4:16
Speaker 1: that what really happened is the roommate attacked him, a cellmate,
4:19
Speaker 1: another inmate attacked him, and he reported the attack, but
4:23
Speaker 1: then to avoid being called a snitch, he recanted and
4:27
Speaker 1: said I don't remember. It will be a cold day
4:30
Speaker 1: in h L that Jeffrey Epstein doesn't remember a near
4:35
Speaker 1: fatal attack. He remembered, So why did he say I
4:39
Speaker 1: don't remember.
4:40
Speaker 2: You're right, Yeah, he was afraid of retaliation, so he
4:44
Speaker 2: just said he didn't remember.
4:45
Speaker 3: And again that's why he was taking off of the watch.
4:48
Speaker 2: If he was, if it was the true attempt to
4:50
Speaker 2: take himself out, to take him off of watch, would
4:53
Speaker 2: be those malpractice for any psychologists that would have recommended it.
4:58
Speaker 2: And Bill Barr, in his testimony under oath, said he
5:03
Speaker 2: was taking loaf of watch because the psychologis or somebody
5:06
Speaker 2: said it would be better. That's nonsense. That's more of
5:09
Speaker 2: Bill Bo's bull cover up story.
5:11
Speaker 1: You know, that's a really good point. Mark Epstein joining
5:14
Speaker 1: us tonight is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein, who insists
5:18
Speaker 1: and has insisted from day one, that the injuries on
5:22
Speaker 1: his brother's body were not self inflicted. He knows Epstein
5:28
Speaker 1: better than anybody living knows Epstein. Now, interesting point that
5:33
Speaker 1: you just made an interesting legal point, Mark Epstein, and
5:36
Speaker 1: that is there was never a civil suit or any
5:41
Speaker 1: suit filed at all when your brother was taken off
5:46
Speaker 1: the death watch because the psychologist knew and set it
5:51
Speaker 1: in their written reports he would never have hurt himself,
5:54
Speaker 1: which adds corroboration and credibility to your account, which is
6:00
Speaker 1: supported by the facts. And that account is that another
6:04
Speaker 1: inmate attacked your brother, a near fatal attack, a serious beating.
6:10
Speaker 1: Your brother reported the attack, but then when questioned by authorities,
6:14
Speaker 1: he backed off and said he didn't remember what happened
6:16
Speaker 1: so he would not be branded a snitch.
6:19
Speaker 3: Wow.
6:20
Speaker 1: Okay, let's pick it up right there. Continue with us tonight,
6:24
Speaker 1: Mark Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother on the alleged dirt nap.
6:29
Speaker 1: Note go ahead, mister Epstein.
6:32
Speaker 2: Well, I first heard on CNN the morning they found him.
6:36
Speaker 2: That's how I found out that he was found apparently
6:40
Speaker 2: dead from an self inflicted act.
6:44
Speaker 3: I believed it. I had no reason to doubt it.
6:46
Speaker 2: I figured, well, this is what he decided to do,
6:49
Speaker 2: and I respected his decision. He was potentially facing a
6:52
Speaker 2: very long time in jail. I knew he wouldn't want
6:55
Speaker 2: to live that way. He didn't have any kids to
6:57
Speaker 2: worry about. He was single, our parents were gone. He
7:00
Speaker 2: didn't have to worry about me. So I just had
7:02
Speaker 2: no reason to doubt it. But the next day when
7:04
Speaker 2: they did the autopsy, and both highly qualified forensic pathologists
7:09
Speaker 2: came out of the autopsy and they said they couldn't
7:11
Speaker 2: call this this. They couldn't say he did it himself
7:15
Speaker 2: because it looked too much like a homicide. That's when
7:17
Speaker 2: I said, wait a second, you know what's going on here.
7:20
Speaker 2: And that's when things started getting interesting, and we started
7:23
Speaker 2: finding out about all the screw ups in the prison.
7:25
Speaker 2: And as more and more information comes out, looks at me,
7:29
Speaker 2: the theory that he took himself out is being knocked
7:32
Speaker 2: out of the box. And with the release of the
7:34
Speaker 2: report in the next few weeks, you'll see that he
7:37
Speaker 2: did not do this to himself, which only leaves homicide
7:41
Speaker 2: because the other there's only four ways to die.
7:44
Speaker 3: You know, you could take yourself out.
7:47
Speaker 2: You could die of natural causes, which we know didn't
7:49
Speaker 2: happen to Jeffrey. You could have an accidental death. We
7:52
Speaker 2: know he wasn't hit by a bus. And the fourth
7:55
Speaker 2: is homicide. So the government, the DJ keeps it. With
7:59
Speaker 2: all the information that comes out, they keep saying, yeah,
8:02
Speaker 2: but he took himself out. Yeah, but he took himself out.
8:06
Speaker 2: You know the cameras were American. Yeah, but he took
8:08
Speaker 2: him out. This is the Yeah, we get the year,
8:10
Speaker 2: but he took himself out. Well, this report will knock
8:14
Speaker 2: out the theory that.
8:15
Speaker 3: He took himself out. So the only thing left is homicide.
8:18
Speaker 2: And then the question becomes who killed them and or
8:21
Speaker 2: who had him killed. They should be a homicide investigation
8:25
Speaker 2: because he was killed.
8:27
Speaker 1: Mark Ebstein, you have referred to an upcoming report. What
8:31
Speaker 1: will the report be, Who is creating the report and why.
8:37
Speaker 3: It's done by independent pathologists.
8:39
Speaker 2: I'm not divulging their names because now because I don't
8:42
Speaker 2: want them harassed, you know, by the media. I know
8:45
Speaker 2: how much I get harassed by the media. I want
8:47
Speaker 2: them to do their work and they will release the report.
8:51
Speaker 2: You will find out who they are and what this
8:53
Speaker 2: is all about. You know, when they release the report, again,
8:56
Speaker 2: it's not my report. They're not doing this on my behalf.
8:59
Speaker 2: They contented me months ago, many months ago, and I
9:03
Speaker 2: just provided them with all the information that I had
9:05
Speaker 2: about the autopsy, the photographs of his body, the x rays,
9:09
Speaker 2: the medical records, and again on the initial death certificate
9:13
Speaker 2: we got today, they did the autopsy, you know, six
9:16
Speaker 2: and a half years ago under cause of death it
9:20
Speaker 2: said pending further study. Well, that study had never been
9:23
Speaker 2: done because by quickly calling, by quickly saying Jeffrey took
9:27
Speaker 2: himself out, there's no reason to investigate anything, so it
9:31
Speaker 2: shuts down any investigation. That's why they did it that way.
9:35
Speaker 2: That's why it was quickly called. It was quickly determined
9:39
Speaker 2: that he took himself out erroneously, because all the pathologists
9:43
Speaker 2: I've spoken to him since have told me that when
9:46
Speaker 2: an initial death certificate says pending further study under cause
9:49
Speaker 2: of death, you don't get an answer for weeks because
9:53
Speaker 2: something's being studied, something's being investigated, that was never done.
9:57
Speaker 3: Here, I'm going to ask you a question, what.
10:00
Speaker 2: Are you basing your idea that Jeffrey took himself out on.
10:05
Speaker 1: As we've discussed several times before, Mark Epstein, I have
10:08
Speaker 1: always thought from day one that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered
10:12
Speaker 1: behind bars. And the single most convincing fact for me
10:19
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with politics. It has nothing to
10:22
Speaker 1: do with malfeasance or misconduct or bad guards, bad cameras. Nothing.
10:29
Speaker 1: It has to do with the facts. It has to
10:32
Speaker 1: do with the markings on your brother's neck. I have handled, prosecuted,
10:40
Speaker 1: and investigated and covered more homicides than I can count.
10:45
Speaker 1: I can't even remember them all. When a person is
10:48
Speaker 1: strangled by ligature ligature strangulation, you will see a straight
10:56
Speaker 1: across marking on the neck, typically furrowed where the ligatire
11:04
Speaker 1: be it a rope, a stocking furrows into the skin.
11:10
Speaker 1: When an individual takes their own life, you will see
11:15
Speaker 1: a smiley mark from ear down toward the Adams apple
11:20
Speaker 1: and to the other ear because of the positioning of
11:24
Speaker 1: the rope. If it is a rope, So the marking
11:28
Speaker 1: on your brother's neck. The first time I saw it,
11:32
Speaker 1: From having handled so many homicides, I did not believe
11:36
Speaker 1: it could be anything other than homicide.
11:39
Speaker 2: Yes, what you're correct about the mark on his neck,
11:41
Speaker 2: but there's other injuries to his body and are the
11:44
Speaker 2: bruises that cannot have been self inflicted. And this was
11:47
Speaker 2: either overlooked or ignored by doctor Samskran, who was the
11:51
Speaker 2: chief medical examiner, who said that Jeffrey took himself out.
11:56
Speaker 2: And let me be really clear, she never saw it
12:00
Speaker 2: Jeffrey's body. She wasn't in the office that day. The
12:03
Speaker 2: two pathologists that did the autopsy both came out saying
12:08
Speaker 2: this looks like a homicide.
12:09
Speaker 3: They wouldn't call it.
12:11
Speaker 2: And the report coming out goes much deeper into the
12:14
Speaker 2: marks and bruises on Jeffrey's body. You know, the other
12:17
Speaker 2: reason people are calling this saying that he took himself out.
12:22
Speaker 2: You know, Barbara Samson made that statement within you know,
12:25
Speaker 2: days after Jeffrey died. And Bill Barr, the Attorney General,
12:30
Speaker 2: came out and publicly stated that he personally watched the
12:34
Speaker 2: video tape from the camera that was outside of the
12:37
Speaker 2: tier and he saw that nobody went in or out
12:40
Speaker 2: of the tier, and that convinced him it was just.
12:43
Speaker 3: Those are the two reasons people think this.
12:46
Speaker 2: Was a Barbara Samson's statement and Bill Barrs statement. Now,
12:50
Speaker 2: if you look at Bill Barr's statement. First of all,
12:53
Speaker 2: with the recent release of the videotape, you could see
12:56
Speaker 2: that number one, you cannot see the door to the
12:58
Speaker 2: tier that he was referring to, and it's been shown
13:02
Speaker 2: many times that you people could get to that door
13:05
Speaker 2: and leave from that door without being caught by that camera.
13:09
Speaker 3: So just what the was he talking about.
13:11
Speaker 2: We also have now seen in the middle of the
13:14
Speaker 2: night that orange person going up the stairs, you know,
13:17
Speaker 2: because you only see the left side of the staircase,
13:20
Speaker 2: so obviously somebody went up the stairs. So again, what
13:23
Speaker 2: the was Bill Barr talking about when he said nobody
13:25
Speaker 2: went and around?
13:26
Speaker 3: Somebody went up there.
13:28
Speaker 2: Also, Bill Barr completely ignored the possibility that somebody already
13:33
Speaker 2: on the tier and another cell could have gotten to
13:36
Speaker 2: Jeffrey done something going back into a cell without having
13:40
Speaker 2: to go and come from the tier. A few months
13:43
Speaker 2: after the death, I was told by a source that
13:46
Speaker 2: cell doors.
13:47
Speaker 3: Were left unlocked that night.
13:49
Speaker 2: I don't know how many, I don't know who's but
13:52
Speaker 2: supposed this information.
13:53
Speaker 3: Came from a lawyer of one of the other inmates
13:55
Speaker 3: on the tier.
13:57
Speaker 2: So it makes perfect sense when you put it all
13:59
Speaker 2: together that somebody he already on the tier could have
14:02
Speaker 2: done this.
14:03
Speaker 3: Also, to think that.
14:04
Speaker 2: Somebody could get to that cell door, the tear door,
14:07
Speaker 2: go into tier, commit a crime, and leave completely undetected,
14:12
Speaker 2: it's kind of asinine. So Bill Barr's entire conclusion is
14:16
Speaker 2: based on bullshit, and it wouldn't hold up in the
14:18
Speaker 2: court of law, and it wouldn't hold up in a
14:20
Speaker 2: kindergarten class.
14:22
Speaker 1: So you believe Mark that there's so called handwritten note
14:26
Speaker 1: now unsealed by a federal judge is really a fake
14:30
Speaker 1: intended to corroborate the official ruling Your brother took his
14:36
Speaker 1: life while waiting for a trial. You believe the note
14:41
Speaker 1: is a fake?
14:43
Speaker 2: Yes, I believe that the government knows, just like you
14:45
Speaker 2: now know that this report is coming out that will
14:48
Speaker 2: prove that Jeffrey did not take his own life, to
14:52
Speaker 2: prove it conclusively that Jeffrey could.
14:54
Speaker 3: Not have taken his own life, as they say.
14:56
Speaker 2: So, I believe this is their attempt now to so
14:59
Speaker 2: doubt about this report, because since it's going to be
15:01
Speaker 2: very damning when this report comes out, so now they're
15:04
Speaker 2: trying to put doubt in people's minds. It's like a
15:07
Speaker 2: propaganda thing. Yet I don't believe the note is real, because, again,
15:11
Speaker 2: since there was no prior attempt in July on Jeffrey's
15:16
Speaker 2: part to take his own life, why would he have
15:19
Speaker 2: written such a note. It doesn't make sense to me
15:21
Speaker 2: or to anybody else who looks at it that way.
15:24
Speaker 1: Another issue in my mind, Mark Epstein, is timing. The
15:28
Speaker 1: so called dirt Nap note remained buried buried in court
15:35
Speaker 1: documents for years now. Don't you think if this was legitimate,
15:41
Speaker 1: we would have heard about it at the time your
15:44
Speaker 1: brother was killed. We would have heard, hey, he wrote
15:47
Speaker 1: a note, But no we didn't. We're only hearing about
15:51
Speaker 1: it now. Does nobody have a problem with the timing.
15:55
Speaker 2: Mark, yes, because this report is coming out and they
15:59
Speaker 2: are aware of And it's like if I said, I
16:01
Speaker 2: found a note that you wrote saying you were going
16:03
Speaker 2: to take yourself out.
16:05
Speaker 3: It makes no sense. You haven't tried to take yourself
16:07
Speaker 3: out as far as.
16:08
Speaker 2: Anybody knows, so why wouldn't there be a note from
16:10
Speaker 2: you saying you're going to take yourself out. Jeffrey didn't
16:13
Speaker 2: try to take himself out, hence, why would he write
16:16
Speaker 2: a note of that kind?
16:18
Speaker 1: Another issue? Mark Epstein is a former police officer behind
16:21
Speaker 1: bars on a serious felony TARTIGLIONI, we're listening to him.
16:29
Speaker 1: He says that your brother wrote the note long before
16:34
Speaker 1: and put it in a book. Why would I believe anything?
16:38
Speaker 2: He said, Yeah, I didn't even know he was a reader,
16:42
Speaker 2: so it doesn't make None of this make sense.
16:46
Speaker 1: He also says that he Epstein left a note in
16:48
Speaker 1: a book weeks and weeks before he was killed. That
16:54
Speaker 1: defies every other life attempt I have ever seen. And
17:00
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks before you die, you leave a note
17:03
Speaker 1: hidden in a book and then nobody finds it until
17:07
Speaker 1: years later.
17:10
Speaker 2: Nancy, after the event in July, Jeffrey was no longer
17:13
Speaker 2: summit with that guy, you know, so that they were
17:16
Speaker 2: not in the same cell together after the July event,
17:18
Speaker 2: So you know, why would Jeffrey write that note leave
17:21
Speaker 2: it in a book with SPCTAGLIONI.
17:23
Speaker 1: Well, here's another issue, Mark, and I've been going through
17:26
Speaker 1: all of the credibility issues. Apparently the so called note
17:31
Speaker 1: changed hands over and over and over. It went between
17:34
Speaker 1: many many people before this guy, this convicted fella on
17:38
Speaker 1: tarcticleone talks about it in a podcast. Really, your brother
17:46
Speaker 1: is set to testify against some of the most powerful
17:49
Speaker 1: people and some of the wealthiest people in the world.
17:53
Speaker 1: And we find out about this death note on a
17:57
Speaker 1: podcast from a convicted felon. I'm not buying it.
18:03
Speaker 3: And no either Amar.
18:03
Speaker 2: And once this report comes out and it's taken off
18:07
Speaker 2: the table and then we know Jeffrey was killed, you
18:09
Speaker 2: have to, you know, and the d o J has
18:11
Speaker 2: been covering this up and then coming up with nonsense,
18:14
Speaker 2: you have to wonder, you know, out ofm Like I said,
18:16
Speaker 2: people think there's a whole bunch of people that might
18:19
Speaker 2: have wanted Jeffrey dead. I really don't think that list
18:22
Speaker 2: is that big. Jeffrey was a pretty well liked guy,
18:25
Speaker 2: you know.
18:25
Speaker 4: Uh.
18:26
Speaker 2: Then you have to pair that list down to who
18:29
Speaker 2: potentially would have the ability to orchestrate this whole murder
18:34
Speaker 2: and have the d o J cover it up.
18:36
Speaker 3: You have to you have to look at that who
18:38
Speaker 3: would be able to pull this off if you were
18:41
Speaker 3: doing a truth.
18:48
Speaker 2: Doctor doctor Christian Roman, who was the pathologist who actually
18:52
Speaker 2: did the autopsy.
18:53
Speaker 3: It was her autopsy to do. Doctor Biden was there
18:56
Speaker 3: with her.
18:57
Speaker 2: She was deposed afterwards, and she said in her deposition
19:01
Speaker 2: that one she was told not to take DNA evidence,
19:04
Speaker 2: and she was also prohibited from going through the crime scene,
19:08
Speaker 2: you know, the jail. Both steps highly unusual in a
19:12
Speaker 2: case like that where the medical Examiner's office is supposed
19:15
Speaker 2: to determine the cause of death. She would tell you now,
19:17
Speaker 2: if this was a real investigation, if they were really
19:20
Speaker 2: looking okay, when she said she was told not to
19:23
Speaker 2: take DNA evidence, the next question should have been who told.
19:27
Speaker 3: You not to take DNA evidence?
19:30
Speaker 2: But they didn't ask those questions because they want to
19:32
Speaker 2: brush this whole thing under the carpet as Jeffrey's taking
19:36
Speaker 2: himself out instead of being investigated as the murder that
19:39
Speaker 2: it was.
19:40
Speaker 1: Guys, For those of you just joining with us tonight,
19:43
Speaker 1: Mark Epstein, this is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, and we are
19:46
Speaker 1: supposed to believe that within days of testifying against some
19:50
Speaker 1: of the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world,
19:54
Speaker 1: Epstein takes a dirt nap and then the death note appears.
19:59
Speaker 1: After having been in files, it disappears for years and
20:05
Speaker 1: now rears it's ugly. Had Another issue I have regarding credibility,
20:09
Speaker 1: Mark Epstein, is that many, many of your brother's emails
20:14
Speaker 1: have been released to the public and I noticed that
20:17
Speaker 1: this note mimics some of the other emails, specifically the
20:24
Speaker 1: tagline that says what you want me to do bust
20:26
Speaker 1: out crying? That is straight from the Little Rascals, and
20:31
Speaker 1: he had used phraseology similar to that in other publicly
20:36
Speaker 1: released emails. What do you make of that mark?
20:40
Speaker 2: Well, I think if they wanted to make a note
20:43
Speaker 2: and make it look like Jeffrey wrote it, they would
20:45
Speaker 2: try to use phrases that he's used before it to
20:48
Speaker 2: make it sound like he did it. You know, if
20:50
Speaker 2: he's going to write it, he's going to write a
20:52
Speaker 2: note like this supposedly written by Jeffrey Epstein. You're not
20:55
Speaker 2: going to write it in Spanish or Italian or German.
20:58
Speaker 2: You know, he just English speaker, and you would use
21:01
Speaker 2: try to use the language that he would use in
21:03
Speaker 2: the phrases he would use to make it sound authentic.
21:06
Speaker 2: If they wrote it and it read like it was
21:07
Speaker 2: written in the King's English, you would know that Jeffrey
21:10
Speaker 2: Epstein did not write that. So they made it look
21:12
Speaker 2: if it was forged. They made it try to make
21:15
Speaker 2: it look like it was coming from him. There's no
21:18
Speaker 2: surprise there. But like I said, I got a report
21:21
Speaker 2: showing that the handwriting on the note didn't match up
21:24
Speaker 2: to three other pieces of evidence of his.
21:27
Speaker 3: That we know is his handwriting. And again, why would
21:30
Speaker 3: he write such a note?
21:31
Speaker 2: Why would he write such a note if there was
21:33
Speaker 2: no prior attempt to take himself out?
21:37
Speaker 3: To me, that doesn't make any sense.
21:39
Speaker 2: Also, you know, only about eighteen percent or so of
21:42
Speaker 2: victims who take themselves out write notes.
21:46
Speaker 3: It's not common.
21:47
Speaker 1: Well, I have to tell you this, Mark Epstein. I've
21:50
Speaker 1: worked with handwriting comparison experts at the crime Lab. I've
21:54
Speaker 1: had many many cases dealing with forgeries, and I know this.
22:01
Speaker 1: I know it's actually very easy if you have a
22:04
Speaker 1: practiced forger to create a note like this, A short
22:10
Speaker 1: note using phraseology that we know your brother to have
22:14
Speaker 1: used in the past. Is just not that hard, Mark Fstein,
22:18
Speaker 1: What is the single most convincing fact that your brother
22:23
Speaker 1: was murdered and this note is not authentic?
22:27
Speaker 2: Well, the fact that the druisers on his body, including
22:31
Speaker 2: the ligature mark on his neck, as you pointed out,
22:34
Speaker 2: does not correspond with someone taking themselves out. And the
22:39
Speaker 2: report that's coming out will prove that, will conclusively prove that.
22:44
Speaker 2: To all the other stuff, you know, even if Jeffrey
22:47
Speaker 2: wrote that note, which I don't think he did.
22:49
Speaker 3: Even if he.
22:50
Speaker 2: Wrote that note, the report still shows that he could
22:53
Speaker 2: not have taken himself out the way they say, or
22:57
Speaker 2: any of the way.
22:58
Speaker 3: It had to be done by somebody else.
23:04
Speaker 1: With us, Mark Epstein, this is Jeffrey Epstein's brother who
23:07
Speaker 1: insists his brother was murdered just before his testimony was
23:13
Speaker 1: to go down. Joining us now an all star panel
23:17
Speaker 1: to make sense of what Mark Epstein and others are saying. First,
23:22
Speaker 1: straight out to renowned death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. He
23:26
Speaker 1: is Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath
23:31
Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. He is the star of a
23:33
Speaker 1: hit podcast, Bodybags of Joseph Scott Morgan. But for our
23:37
Speaker 1: purposes tonight, he has investigated over ten thousand death scenes
23:44
Speaker 1: of all sorts, be they death at your own hands, accident,
23:51
Speaker 1: natural causes unexplained, or homicide. Those are the five choices,
23:59
Speaker 1: Joseph got Morgan. Explain to me why you insist Jeffrey
24:06
Speaker 1: Epstein was murdered.
24:10
Speaker 5: Two areas to look at you have to look externally. Well,
24:13
Speaker 5: let's talk about externally. They're talking about ligature marks on
24:16
Speaker 5: his neck. All right. And when you see these marks,
24:19
Speaker 5: and I've seen every possible angle of these things out there,
24:24
Speaker 5: you have got two overlying marks and they run. One
24:29
Speaker 5: particularly runs parallel to the shoulders. What do I mean
24:33
Speaker 5: by that? The mark is here, it goes straight back.
24:37
Speaker 5: If someone were to take their on life, it would
24:41
Speaker 5: pitch up. That's called tinting feature. And there is another
24:45
Speaker 5: mark that runs slightly upward at an angle, but it
24:48
Speaker 5: is not sufficient to be defined as tinting feature, which
24:52
Speaker 5: you see with self inflicted ligatures. Now you go under
24:59
Speaker 5: the skin. Okay, you go under the skin, and this
25:02
Speaker 5: is critical, Nancy. There are two separate fractures in the
25:08
Speaker 5: cartilage in the neck right here, all right. One's on
25:12
Speaker 5: this side, one's on the other side. And then then
25:17
Speaker 5: you have you know, the little bone that we always
25:20
Speaker 5: talk about, the only non articulating bone in the whole
25:23
Speaker 5: human body, the hyoid, shaped like a horseshoe. Greater left
25:29
Speaker 5: horn is fractured. That's way way, way way way up
25:33
Speaker 5: in the neck.
25:34
Speaker 3: You know.
25:35
Speaker 5: When we see this, Nancy, we see it with manual strangulation.
25:39
Speaker 5: So you can go on and on, you can prattle
25:43
Speaker 5: on and on and say, well, yet this is consistent
25:46
Speaker 5: with him having ended himself. However, you'll never convince me,
25:52
Speaker 5: you know else. You're not going to convince my friend
25:54
Speaker 5: doctor Michael Biden, and there are a lot of other
25:56
Speaker 5: people out there. You're never gonna convince either.
26:00
Speaker 6: Of the left, the right thyroid cartilage, and the left
26:08
Speaker 6: hyoid bone. I have never seen three fractures like this
26:13
Speaker 6: in a suicidal hanging. Sometimes there's a fracture of the
26:17
Speaker 6: higher bone or a fracture of the thyroid cartilage. Going
26:20
Speaker 6: over over one thousand jail hanging in the New York
26:25
Speaker 6: City State prisons over the past forty to fifty years,
26:28
Speaker 6: no one had three fractures.
26:30
Speaker 1: Scott, can you address the bruises on his body that
26:33
Speaker 1: his brother Mark Epstein discussed Epstein. Mark Epstein insists the
26:39
Speaker 1: bruises could not have been self inflicted, and I agree.
26:43
Speaker 5: Yeah, how do you even explain that. I'm glad that
26:46
Speaker 5: Mark brought that up. You know, you've got these these
26:49
Speaker 5: areas that have been impacted, and we talk about bruises, right, Nancy,
26:55
Speaker 5: fancy ten dollars word contusion. That means you have to
26:58
Speaker 5: have direct contact, you have to have a direct blow
27:02
Speaker 5: to that area. We've all bumped into furniture, we've bumped
27:06
Speaker 5: into the side of a wall, we've fallen down, and listen,
27:11
Speaker 5: if what they're saying here, If what they're saying is
27:14
Speaker 5: this was actually generated as a result of being in
27:19
Speaker 5: this position, you can't explain that. And also it almost
27:23
Speaker 5: looks as though that it's very there's a very focal area.
27:27
Speaker 5: It's not widespread and diffuse. It's kind of a concentrated area.
27:32
Speaker 5: So to me, that implies that implies that there was
27:35
Speaker 5: a direct impact. I don't know if it was generated
27:38
Speaker 5: by hand or I have no idea, but it just
27:42
Speaker 5: does not marry up with the story that they're trying
27:45
Speaker 5: to sell everybody on on this being a self afflicted event.
27:49
Speaker 1: Before we go to our handwriting expert, Bart Baggett straight
27:55
Speaker 1: out to Lynn Shaw, founder director of Lynn's Warriors, dedicated
28:00
Speaker 1: to eradicate trafficking of women and girls. Lynn, did you
28:06
Speaker 1: hear what Epstein's brother Mark Epstein said? A ruling that
28:13
Speaker 1: Epstein died at his own hand, not by homicide, completely
28:19
Speaker 1: shut down the investigation into what happened to all those
28:25
Speaker 1: teen girls and even younger girls as young as twelve.
28:30
Speaker 1: It shut it all down. How convenient?
28:33
Speaker 7: First of all, does the DOJ think the American public
28:37
Speaker 7: is this stupid? We are exhausted from these lies that
28:42
Speaker 7: have been told over and over again. We have medical evidence,
28:46
Speaker 7: We have the brother of Jeffrey Epstein talking about this,
28:50
Speaker 7: We have our Epstein files Transparency Act in Washington. Nothing
28:54
Speaker 7: Nancy ever came really of that. Okay, we have exhausted
28:58
Speaker 7: over one thousand women, some of them girls young teens
29:01
Speaker 7: at the time, who have come forward. If there's one thousand,
29:04
Speaker 7: you can bet there's at least two thousand and No
29:07
Speaker 7: one I know working acrosse the United States on any
29:11
Speaker 7: of this with victims, right with survivors of all sex trafficking.
29:15
Speaker 7: Nobody believes the Epstein story that he would harm himself,
29:19
Speaker 7: that this is what he did. No, no, no, it
29:23
Speaker 7: is so complicit. The only one we're hearing about is
29:26
Speaker 7: Golaine Maxwell being in this club fed. Nobody else top
29:30
Speaker 7: down is being held responsible. And what a slap in
29:33
Speaker 7: the face now that we have all of this right
29:35
Speaker 7: now coming forward shut down. Nobody's believing this. So what's
29:40
Speaker 7: our question? What do we want to do. We're still
29:42
Speaker 7: chipping away, trying to get answers will we ever get them.
29:45
Speaker 7: I fear not, because right now we have too many
29:48
Speaker 7: exhausted survivors, victims overall in the entire sex trafficking movement
29:53
Speaker 7: who just want to actually move forward from this. They've
29:56
Speaker 7: had enough and they know they're being lied to day
29:58
Speaker 7: after day now.
30:00
Speaker 1: In addition to Lynn Shaw and Joe Scott Morgan, doctor
30:04
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. She is a renowned psychoanalyst. She is now
30:09
Speaker 1: featured on Peacock and Bravo. She's the author of deal Breaker,
30:16
Speaker 1: and she is star of a new podcast On the
30:19
Speaker 1: Couch with Doctor Bethany Marshall. You can find her a
30:23
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com Doctor Bethany. I have a question,
30:27
Speaker 1: and of course you're the psychoanalyst. I'm just a JD.
30:31
Speaker 1: But why would Epstein put a death note squirreled away,
30:37
Speaker 1: hidden away where nobody but a crooked cop Tartiglione, who
30:43
Speaker 1: has a violent felony history. He's the only one that
30:47
Speaker 1: knows about it. Why wouldn't he put it near him
30:51
Speaker 1: so it would be known what happened. I just find
30:53
Speaker 1: this really difficult to believe. I've never seen a death
30:57
Speaker 1: note of that nature away and hidden.
31:03
Speaker 4: You know what, Epstein didn't hide anything, right. Epstein created
31:08
Speaker 4: a monster factory that.
31:10
Speaker 1: Drew in his room for Pete's sake, right.
31:14
Speaker 4: A monster factory that drew in academics, politicians, clergy, Wall
31:22
Speaker 4: Street executives. His monster factory drew in everybody. And he
31:28
Speaker 4: liked being at the center of things. So somebody who
31:32
Speaker 4: wants to be at the center of things is not
31:34
Speaker 4: going to write a note that's going to be hidden away, right,
31:39
Speaker 4: They're just not going to do it. And also, Nancy,
31:42
Speaker 4: people who harm themselves usually have two traits, hopelessness and impulsivity.
31:50
Speaker 4: Epstein was not impulsive. He was a planner. He bought
31:57
Speaker 4: the biggest mansion in Manhattan so he could use it
32:00
Speaker 4: as a trading principle with everybody around him, like, come
32:05
Speaker 4: to my Manhattan mansion. You know we're going to have
32:08
Speaker 4: these parties. They're going to be debauched. And because of that,
32:13
Speaker 4: he he wouldn't like. I just don't see him not
32:19
Speaker 4: planning ahead. And in terms of hopelessness, Nancy, he was
32:23
Speaker 4: about to face trial and he got out of every
32:28
Speaker 4: consequence in his life. So the fact that he was
32:33
Speaker 4: facing trial tells me that he probably thought he was
32:36
Speaker 4: going to get out of all the sex trafficking charges.
32:40
Speaker 4: So why would he unlive himself before his greatest victory
32:46
Speaker 4: or glory when he thought he would get out of everything.
32:50
Speaker 1: Which he had done before. Remember Lenshaw the debacle in
32:55
Speaker 1: Palm Beach where he got a slap on the wrist
32:59
Speaker 1: and house arrest for molestation, for repeat molestation, and he
33:06
Speaker 1: had a limo driver pick him up at the jail
33:09
Speaker 1: every day, take him where ever he wanted to all
33:12
Speaker 1: day long, as long as he checked back in for
33:14
Speaker 1: the night.
33:16
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, we remember that. We remember that, Nancy, We
33:19
Speaker 7: remember that, and that is why this chain of events
33:22
Speaker 7: like leading up to right now. Okay, we've been in
33:25
Speaker 7: front of Congress, survivors and victims. We've been all over
33:29
Speaker 7: the country, you know, holding rallies about you know Epstein.
33:33
Speaker 7: We have been talking about Gallaine Maxwell. We have had media,
33:37
Speaker 7: we have done it all and yet still doctor Bethanie
33:41
Speaker 7: is right, and that is what victims are thinking right now.
33:43
Speaker 7: They're like somebody of power and wealth and this is
33:46
Speaker 7: overall even besides Jeffrey Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell. They have
33:50
Speaker 7: the power, they have the wealth, they have so many
33:53
Speaker 7: people in high positions on their sides and complicit with
33:55
Speaker 7: them in these crimes. They get away with everything. And
33:58
Speaker 7: I believe this is what you know right now with
34:00
Speaker 7: the DOJ shutting things down repeatedly, over and over and
34:03
Speaker 7: over again, right they want to exhaust anybody who's got
34:07
Speaker 7: any information, any proof, anything, so everybody just scatters and
34:11
Speaker 7: goes away. And that is our biggest fear right now
34:13
Speaker 7: with the warriors, because that is what is happening. These women,
34:17
Speaker 7: some of them again girls at the time, right miners,
34:21
Speaker 7: They are exhausted, they want to get on with their lives.
34:23
Speaker 7: They've got families themselves, a lot of them. And again
34:26
Speaker 7: they will say to me, they're getting away with it.
34:28
Speaker 7: They've gotten away with it. Look at how we're being
34:31
Speaker 7: treated still still from top down in Washington, all throughout
34:34
Speaker 7: the communities in the United States. We're never going to win.
34:37
Speaker 7: So let's just stop it. And that is our greatest fear,
34:40
Speaker 7: because we have to chip away and keep talking about
34:42
Speaker 7: this and bringing up medical evidence and bringing up proof
34:45
Speaker 7: the DOJ. I'm going to say it again, I fear,
34:47
Speaker 7: I've said it from the beginning for years now. We
34:50
Speaker 7: are never really going to see complete files and really
34:53
Speaker 7: hold those accountable who participate it in this crime spree.
35:00
Speaker 1: Joining us now a renowned forensic handwriting expert, he is
35:05
Speaker 1: the founder of Handwriting Experts, Inc. He is a host
35:08
Speaker 1: of The Bart Show podcast and you can find him
35:13
Speaker 1: at Bart Baggett dot com. Mister Baggett, thank you for
35:16
Speaker 1: being with us. Contrary to what you have heard so far,
35:20
Speaker 1: you have a different opinion on the death note. Explain
35:25
Speaker 1: I do.
35:26
Speaker 8: Unfortunately, we don't have a huge, opening public file of
35:31
Speaker 8: Jeffrey Epstein's real handwriting. But what we do have is
35:34
Speaker 8: two notes. And my conclusion on those two notes that
35:38
Speaker 8: we found in the gel cell is they were written
35:40
Speaker 8: by the same person, and so that is still very
35:43
Speaker 8: useful information because it seems like these notes arrived at
35:46
Speaker 8: different times, which infuses the story. And the other part
35:50
Speaker 8: is is it Jeffrey's handwriting? I think that's the question
35:53
Speaker 8: we should dig into because we don't have and they
35:56
Speaker 8: haven't released lots of his natural handwriting that's using part
36:00
Speaker 8: of this story.
36:01
Speaker 1: So on what do you base your analysis that the
36:05
Speaker 1: note is legit?
36:08
Speaker 8: So I base my analysis when we compare the two
36:11
Speaker 8: notes from the jail cell, is it's natural, it's fluid.
36:15
Speaker 8: The letters are similar. The capital A is very unique,
36:18
Speaker 8: the lower s's, all the letter forms are similar, and Nancy,
36:22
Speaker 8: I want to push back on you a little bit
36:24
Speaker 8: of what you said earlier. You said it was incredibly
36:27
Speaker 8: easy to create a forged note, and that has not
36:30
Speaker 8: been my experience when you have an entire page of
36:33
Speaker 8: blank paper. My experience has been even with our school,
36:36
Speaker 8: students struggle to forge anything more than a signature, because
36:41
Speaker 8: it has to be fast, has to be fluid, has
36:44
Speaker 8: to have no pen lifts, have to start and stop,
36:47
Speaker 8: and it's fast. And these notes are quickly and naturally written.
36:51
Speaker 8: So that makes me think that these notes were written
36:53
Speaker 8: by the same person, But the jury still out on
36:56
Speaker 8: whether or not it was mister Epstein.
36:58
Speaker 1: What about the fact mister Baggett, guys joining us is
37:02
Speaker 1: a preeminent handwriting expert, Bark Baggett. You said fast, but
37:08
Speaker 1: this note to not appear for years. You mentioned it
37:13
Speaker 1: was hard for your students to pull off a fake note,
37:18
Speaker 1: But what if it was an expert like yourself that
37:22
Speaker 1: had months and months, maybe even years to write the note.
37:27
Speaker 8: That's a whole different equation. You talk about counterfeit paintings,
37:30
Speaker 8: counterfeit money, counterfeit notes. If you have time, and you
37:34
Speaker 8: have expertise, and you have access to his writing, you
37:37
Speaker 8: could practice for years. I think the only cases that
37:40
Speaker 8: have been really, really hard in the thirty years is
37:43
Speaker 8: when a wife forges the husband's name because they've been
37:46
Speaker 8: working together for thirty years, so she's got like years
37:48
Speaker 8: of practice. Those cases are a little harder. And I
37:52
Speaker 8: think what's interesting is not only is the handwriting so similar,
37:56
Speaker 8: such as the letter forms, the a, the quickness they've
38:00
Speaker 8: obviously created such a fast thing. The words are the same.
38:04
Speaker 8: They've got phrases that come directly from emails. So you
38:07
Speaker 8: have to ask yourself that question, who had access to
38:10
Speaker 8: understand these phrasings and words and explanation marks. The only
38:15
Speaker 8: way to craft a note this good to get past
38:19
Speaker 8: my professional wives is to have access to all those
38:22
Speaker 8: files and then submitted into evidence at the appropriate time.
38:26
Speaker 8: Are you insinuating this note was written.
38:28
Speaker 1: Had those files Dave Matt joining US Crimes towards investigative reporter,
38:33
Speaker 1: who would have had the files?
38:36
Speaker 3: Nancy?
38:37
Speaker 9: The files have been handled, in particular here by Nick
38:41
Speaker 9: Cartaganioni and his defense team as they're trying to fight
38:47
Speaker 9: his conviction on the murder charges that he is sitting with.
38:52
Speaker 3: He's the guy who said he.
38:53
Speaker 9: Found the note in his little book after everything went down.
38:59
Speaker 9: All of this is found by the same guy, the
39:01
Speaker 9: only one who benefits by it being written by Epstein.
39:05
Speaker 1: Bart Baggett. Let me understand after your review, you believe
39:09
Speaker 1: the notes are genuine, but you have a concern.
39:14
Speaker 3: Yeah.
39:14
Speaker 8: So what I stated, and what I think all forensic
39:17
Speaker 8: experts would say, is these two notes found in the
39:21
Speaker 8: jail cell were written by the same person. However, even
39:25
Speaker 8: if that person was Jeffrey, which the evidence points to it,
39:29
Speaker 8: that doesn't mean he unlived himself. I think people are
39:32
Speaker 8: making the assumptions that if he wrote this note, then
39:35
Speaker 8: that narrative's true. I don't buy that. Why because the
39:39
Speaker 8: note itself is not typically what we would think of
39:43
Speaker 8: as a one of those notes. There's no depression, there's
39:46
Speaker 8: no sadness. There's nothing about the typical notes that I've
39:49
Speaker 8: seen when someone does that. I don't think psychologically he
39:53
Speaker 8: was ready.
39:54
Speaker 1: To go Wow, Okay, doctor Bethany, what about it?
39:58
Speaker 4: There was no hopelessness. People who unlive themselves feel they
40:03
Speaker 4: have no future. He had a rich future, He had money,
40:08
Speaker 4: he had An Island. He had the most expensive home
40:12
Speaker 4: in Manhattan, Nancy, and he treated these commodities for everything
40:18
Speaker 4: he wanted with everybody around him. So he had so
40:22
Speaker 4: many attorneys who were going to help him that he
40:26
Speaker 4: thought he would get the get out of jail free card.
40:30
Speaker 4: So the hopelessness is not what you know hopelessness of
40:36
Speaker 4: companies on a living oneself. And he didn't have it.
40:40
Speaker 1: Well, there's somebody else that benefits from it being written
40:44
Speaker 1: by Epstein Linshaw, everyone that wants to shut down the investigation,
40:48
Speaker 1: every single one of those very wealthy, very powerful connections
40:54
Speaker 1: that visited Lolieda Island.
40:57
Speaker 7: Absolutely incredible. Look what we're talking about this catch note?
41:01
Speaker 7: Has anybody heard of AI? Because the technology with AI,
41:04
Speaker 7: you can recreate anything even better than original handwriting. So
41:08
Speaker 7: I'm saying, of course they're going to put out with
41:11
Speaker 7: similar words, phrases, handwriting because the technology is there to
41:16
Speaker 7: create this. So everybody's got to wake up. The timing
41:19
Speaker 7: of all of this tartag Leoni, whatever he did and
41:22
Speaker 7: all of his stuff, I mean, facing you know, for
41:25
Speaker 7: murder charges. How convenient? How convenient is the timing when
41:29
Speaker 7: we know there is a report coming out with more
41:33
Speaker 7: damning evidence again. So I wish everybody would wake up
41:37
Speaker 7: and say, it is so easy these days to forge
41:39
Speaker 7: anything because you have the technology with AI. So let's
41:43
Speaker 7: all look at the other facts. We've been talking about,
41:46
Speaker 7: the medical you know, the victims, all of it, because
41:49
Speaker 7: I don't believe Jeffrey Epstein, and everybody I work with,
41:53
Speaker 7: not one person believes Jeffrey Epstein wrote this note and
41:56
Speaker 7: it came from this criminal. What great timing. The JA,
42:00
Speaker 7: in my opinion, continues to try to shut everything down,
42:02
Speaker 7: but they're at a point right now they can't because
42:04
Speaker 7: we keep talking about it, We keep chipping away, and
42:07
Speaker 7: the victims and survivors are not really gonna let the
42:11
Speaker 7: strong ones let this story go away. It remains to
42:13
Speaker 7: be seen. I say, stay tuned a lots coming down
42:16
Speaker 7: the pike in the next few weeks.
42:17
Speaker 1: With us Mark Epstein, this is Jeffrey Epstein's brother. Who
42:21
Speaker 1: do you believe would have had access to Jeffrey's handwriting,
42:25
Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein's handwriting.
42:28
Speaker 2: He might he could have written, hypothetically, he could have
42:30
Speaker 2: written that note maybe in anticipation that maybe he'd want
42:34
Speaker 2: to take himself out. I mean, that's a possibility in
42:37
Speaker 2: the world of possibilities, but it doesn't matter. Like the
42:41
Speaker 2: pathologists who have there, He said that Mark's and Jeffrey's
42:44
Speaker 2: body do not match a self inflicted hanging. The way
42:50
Speaker 2: they're trying to push this off.
42:51
Speaker 6: There were fractures of the left, the right thyroid cartilage,
42:58
Speaker 6: and the left hyoid bone. I have never seen three
43:03
Speaker 6: fractures like this in a suicidal hanging. Sometimes there's a
43:08
Speaker 6: fracture of the higher bone or a fracture of the
43:11
Speaker 6: thyrocardlich going over over a thousand jail hangings in the
43:17
Speaker 6: New York City State prisons over the past forty to
43:19
Speaker 6: fifty years, no one had three fractures.
43:23
Speaker 1: Jes Scott Morgan, what do you make of that? That's
43:26
Speaker 1: doctor Michael Bodden speaking.
43:30
Speaker 5: Okay, this is what I'm thinking, and I can't get
43:33
Speaker 5: inside Michael's mind. However, for every one of those events
43:38
Speaker 5: that you're talking about, let me rephrase that, for every
43:40
Speaker 5: single insult that he's referring to that could possibly be
43:46
Speaker 5: separate individual events. Okay. And the one thing that has
43:51
Speaker 5: always troubled me is the fact that when you see
43:55
Speaker 5: the external ligature marks on the neck, Okay, that those
44:01
Speaker 5: markings that are there have been readjusted, okay, almost like
44:06
Speaker 5: they're trying to replace, replace this thing and again come
44:11
Speaker 5: back with pressure, okay, over and over again. And also
44:15
Speaker 5: I think that there is direct pressure being applied with
44:19
Speaker 5: a hand. This is a frenzied event, Nancy. Again, I
44:22
Speaker 5: draw your attention back to the contusion that's at the
44:25
Speaker 5: base of the neck on the post, on the post
44:28
Speaker 5: to your neck or the shoulder where the neck essentially
44:32
Speaker 5: joins joins the shoulder right there. That's a frenzied event.
44:37
Speaker 5: You've got an individual that is probably struggling and fighting
44:40
Speaker 5: for their life, and this thing is a very, very
44:43
Speaker 5: frenzy they're having to readjust because they want to take
44:46
Speaker 5: him out. That's why none of this makes sense, Nancy.
44:50
Speaker 5: And all of the years, in all of the years
44:52
Speaker 5: that I have worked as a death investigator, okay, I've
44:57
Speaker 5: had so many hangings, all right, and I have never
45:04
Speaker 5: seen this kind of readjustment that takes place in these events.
45:08
Speaker 5: It's generally boom, a singular event. The individual goes out,
45:13
Speaker 5: this thing has been adjusted, it has been I don't
45:17
Speaker 5: know manipulated is necessarily the term, but I think that
45:21
Speaker 5: there was a frenzied attack in this event because they
45:24
Speaker 5: were trying to figure out exactly how they were going
45:26
Speaker 5: to put him down and do it quickly, and in
45:28
Speaker 5: that it's not very smooth, but they The end result,
45:32
Speaker 5: you know, of course, is mister Epstein is no longer
45:36
Speaker 5: with us.
45:37
Speaker 10: Well, I wanted to add another point part in Bill
45:39
Speaker 10: Barr's recent congressional testimony under oath, he was questioned about
45:44
Speaker 10: doctor Boden's opinion, and he said under oath that doctor
45:48
Speaker 10: Biden came after the fact.
45:51
Speaker 3: That's what he said.
45:52
Speaker 2: Now, just how stupid is that, because we all know
45:55
Speaker 2: doctor Biden was there for the entire autopsy. It was
45:58
Speaker 2: doctor Sampson who called it she came after the fact.
46:02
Speaker 2: I want to make that clear that Bill Barr actually
46:04
Speaker 2: prosed himself by saying that, because he had to know
46:07
Speaker 2: Boden was there for the entire autopsy, but he said
46:10
Speaker 2: Biden came after the fact.
46:11
Speaker 3: You could read the transcript.
46:13
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
46:18
Speaker 1: death of state's witness Jeffrey Epstein Dial eight hundred two
46:24
Speaker 1: five five three two four repeat eight hundred two two
46:28
Speaker 1: five five three two four. We remember an American hero
46:34
Speaker 1: trooper Kevin Trainer, Massachusetts State Police, just thirty, killed in
46:39
Speaker 1: a line of duty after three years on the force,
46:42
Speaker 1: leaving behind a devastated fiance, Jessica American Hero Trooper Kevin Trainer.
46:52
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests for being with us, but
46:53
Speaker 1: especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray
46:56
Speaker 1: signing off for tonight, but I'll see tomorrow night and
46:58
Speaker 1: until then a night friend.
47:05
Speaker 2: YEAHM