Latest / In the Loop AI / Operation Epic Fury: The USA Banned Anthropic But Used It Anyways

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Operation Epic Fury: The USA Banned Anthropic But Used It Anyways · In the Loop AI

0:00
Ejaaz: On Friday, the USA banned Anthropic from being used in any military operation
0:03
Ejaaz: after Dario refused to cave to their demands of being used for mass surveillance
0:07
Ejaaz: and autonomous weapons.
0:09
Ejaaz: Then literally hours later, in the early morning of Saturday,
0:13
Ejaaz: Claude was used to perform and execute the most important and biggest military
0:17
Ejaaz: operation since the invasion of Iraq.
0:19
Ejaaz: This has by far been the most insane week in AI.
0:23
Ejaaz: There was drama and deceit between the top two AI labs, OpenAI and Anthropic,
0:26
Ejaaz: and the Pentagon wanted uncensored access for use of Claude and OpenAI's ChatGPT.
0:32
Ejaaz: AI models are not just chatbots at this point, it's a geopolitical weapon being used for warfare.
0:38
Josh: It's amazing how the biggest news on earth is now just AI news.
0:42
Josh: Like not a single large thing happens that doesn't have AI integral to the decision-making process.
0:47
Josh: And this was no difference. And I think the question that it left everyone at
0:50
Josh: the end of this is like, who really controls AI.
0:53
Josh: Because for the first time, what we're seeing is these private companies have
0:56
Josh: so much leverage, so much power, that they're starting to conflict with the
0:59
Josh: actual elected officials and government.
1:01
Josh: And I think that's kind of at the core of this discussion. But if you missed
1:04
Josh: anything over the last 72 hours. Don't worry, we're going to get you caught
1:07
Josh: up, starting with what happened early last week that sparked this debate.
1:11
Josh: Because at this time, we didn't know that there was any war plans happening.
1:15
Josh: No one had any idea that there were any attacks planned. It was just an AI story.
1:19
Josh: So maybe we'll start with that AI story.
1:21
Ejaaz: That AI story specifically was the news that revealed that the Pentagon,
1:25
Ejaaz: which is part of the US Department of War, had been using Claude to orchestrate
1:29
Ejaaz: and execute their capture of the president or former president of Venezuela, Maduro.
1:35
Ejaaz: And that shocked everyone because up until that point, people were just kind
1:39
Ejaaz: of prompting it to vibe code stuff and to answer their silly questions about,
1:43
Ejaaz: you know, what they wanted to cook tonight.
1:45
Ejaaz: So to see this real life example of an AI being used, not just as a tool outside of a chatbot,
1:51
Ejaaz: but for something so important as military warfare was a big shock and surprise,
1:56
Ejaaz: which then sparked a debate around what the model wanted to be used for.
2:01
Ejaaz: Now, the head of the Pentagon, Pete Hegseth issued an ultimatum shortly after,
2:06
Ejaaz: which raised suspicions around what the conversations were like between the U.S.
2:10
Ejaaz: Department of War and the owners of Claude Anthropic.
2:13
Ejaaz: And it was all but good. The issue that they were facing was Anthropic had been
2:18
Ejaaz: asked to give them an uncensored version of Claude, which could be used for
2:22
Ejaaz: two things, mass surveillance,
2:25
Ejaaz: which included domestic mass surveillance of people within the U.S.,
2:28
Ejaaz: which was a breach of the Fourth Amendment, and also for use within autonomous
2:32
Ejaaz: weapons, meaning that there was no humans involved and an heir would control
2:36
Ejaaz: how weapons were executed and fired.
2:39
Ejaaz: Dario's comments against that was simply, he did not feel comfortable giving
2:43
Ejaaz: court access. He didn't think it was good enough.
2:45
Ejaaz: And also that it was a direct breach of law.
2:47
Ejaaz: So Pete Hegseth issued them an ultimatum at a deadline a few days later on the
2:51
Ejaaz: Friday saying, you either agree to our demands or there are consequences.
2:54
Josh: Yeah, and it's really interesting to hear...
2:59
Josh: How close they were, but seemingly unable to reach a deal. It seemed like they
3:04
Josh: had everything down to just, what, two of these red lines, right?
3:07
Josh: And a lot of that conversation happened around whether they are allowed, whether the U.S.
3:12
Josh: Government and the Department of War is able to use these models without the
3:16
Josh: express written consent and approval of Anthropic when it comes to,
3:19
Josh: I guess, making kinetic decisions, things that actually result in harm that's being caused.
3:24
Josh: And there's this interesting interview that I saw, or just like kind of report
3:29
Josh: that said that when asked about, what was it, the nuclear weapon?
3:33
Josh: Like if someone shot a nuclear weapon at the United States, does the Department
3:38
Josh: of War have... Oh, here it is. Yeah, this is perfect.
3:41
Josh: Does the Department of War have the opportunity and have the right to use anthropic
3:46
Josh: and clawed models to determine like what to do about that, to help shoot it down?
3:51
Josh: And then the response from Dario was basically like...
3:54
Josh: Call us first, and then we'll talk through it and we'll let you know.
3:57
Josh: And I can understand why Dario wants that to be the outcome.
4:00
Josh: And I can understand why the Department of War is absolutely furious because
4:03
Josh: they're like, you are not the elected official.
4:04
Josh: You are not the military. You don't have the right to sign off on our nuclear plans.
4:09
Josh: But for Dario, he very much feels like he created this incredibly strong tool.
4:13
Josh: And what is Anthropic known for at the core of its DNA?
4:16
Josh: Well, it's safety, it's AI alignment. And I'm sure they want to feel like they
4:20
Josh: have a heavy hand so it doesn't get out of hand.
4:23
Josh: And I think that's ultimately where this conflict came from is Anthropic wanting
4:27
Josh: to abide by their safety principles.
4:29
Josh: But the Department of War and the government and the military really being like,
4:33
Josh: OK, yeah, but we're the military.
4:35
Josh: And like if someone's attacking us, we need to use all the tools at our disposal
4:38
Josh: and we can't be waiting for you to answer the phone to tell us if it's OK or not.
4:41
Ejaaz: Yeah, it's the crux of the issue comes down to the contractual language.
4:45
Ejaaz: The Pentagon was willing to say, hey, yeah, you can keep us
4:48
Ejaaz: within all means of legal law and
4:51
Ejaaz: Dario's response was simply the legal law isn't
4:54
Ejaaz: really prepped and covered for the future of AI like right now you could use
4:59
Ejaaz: our model legally to get access to a bunch of people's data and you can just
5:03
Ejaaz: get away with that and Dario his own fundamental ethics behind building Anthropic
5:08
Ejaaz: wasn't comfortable with that but the US Department of War's response was simply
5:12
Ejaaz: Hey, this is a matter of national security and we can't have a private company,
5:17
Ejaaz: a private unelected official dictate how we perform national defense,
5:22
Ejaaz: which you can see fair takes on either side at this point.
5:25
Ejaaz: And it's extremely complicated and nuanced.
5:28
Ejaaz: And in Dario's exact response, there's this very poignant line that he says,
5:33
Ejaaz: we cannot in good conscience accede to their request.
5:36
Ejaaz: This was in response to Pete's ultimatum on that Friday, which led to just only
5:41
Ejaaz: like a crazy public, I guess, debate or fight between these guys.
5:45
Ejaaz: You've got Pete publicly saying, Anthropic just delivered a masterclass in arrogance
5:50
Ejaaz: and betrayal, as well as a textbook case of how not to do business with the
5:53
Ejaaz: United States government or the Pentagon.
5:56
Ejaaz: And a bunch of responses were released after that showing that Dario had not
6:00
Ejaaz: been answering their phone calls or was just being inflexible.
6:03
Ejaaz: And then Dario on his side was saying, we need these contractual language involved
6:07
Ejaaz: because otherwise this AI could be used for nefarious purposes.
6:10
Ejaaz: So it was just so, so much drama.
6:12
Josh: In addition to the Secretary of War having some choice words for Anthropic,
6:15
Josh: Donald Trump chimed in with a rather angry and loud all caps message saying,
6:20
Josh: the United States of America will never allow a radical left woke company to
6:23
Josh: dictate how our great military fights and wins wars, among other things.
6:27
Josh: And the public backlash, the public sentiment around Anthropic and Trump kind
6:30
Josh: of shifted at this moment to being supportive of Anthropic.
6:34
Josh: They were glad that it was standing on its morals and its values. and as
6:37
Josh: a result the app store showed that claude actually
6:40
Josh: became number one in the world and a few
6:42
Josh: weeks ago it was only 131 and this part
6:45
Josh: of the show is brought to you by our sponsor and a supporter
6:48
Josh: of the show polymarket and polymarket is a great way to determine things
6:51
Josh: like who is going to be the number one app in the app store on march 6th and
6:54
Josh: what's interesting here is there's a 62 chance that the current leader actually
6:58
Josh: changes hands it's showing that chat gpt is going to be the new king on the
7:02
Josh: block when in reality there's another market that shows Anthropic is actually
7:05
Josh: most likely to have the best model by the end of March which is you know loosely
7:09
Josh: the same exact time and I love how they've used this to kind of
7:13
Josh: gauge what's the best because now we kind of have an idea that there isn't going
7:16
Josh: to be gpt 6 isn't coming out this month but we know for a fact that anthropic
7:20
Josh: has the winner with opus 4.6.
7:22
Ejaaz: I was just looking and wondering why chat gpt might be taking the lead here
7:26
Ejaaz: despite there being so much positive approval for claude and that might have
7:31
Ejaaz: something to do with our friend sam ulman at open ai who swooped in at the last
7:35
Ejaaz: minute after all the drama between dario and the u.s department of war with his own proposition,
7:41
Ejaaz: basically saying, hey, you can use ChatGPT instead, and we'll agree to your terms.
7:46
Ejaaz: As long as you want to keep things within lawful use, we're going to draft up
7:49
Ejaaz: our own safety stack and red lines. What do you think about this?
7:52
Ejaaz: And the agreement was pretty extensive. They put out an open statement.
7:57
Ejaaz: Now, there's a lot of minutiae in details, but the way I see it,
8:01
Ejaaz: or my favorite highlights from this is they pretty much agreed to the simple
8:05
Ejaaz: terms, but there was some slight changes in the form of they agreed that open
8:09
Ejaaz: AI won't be used for mass domestic surveillance,
8:11
Ejaaz: no use of open AI technology to direct autonomous weapon systems.
8:15
Ejaaz: So these are the two things that Dario wanted, but it's all under lawful use,
8:18
Ejaaz: which is the issue that Dario had.
8:21
Ejaaz: And then there's a third thing, which is no use of open AI technology for high
8:24
Ejaaz: stakes automated decisions, aka they should always be a human in the loop and
8:28
Ejaaz: conceivably held accountable for any court of law going forward this
8:33
Josh: Is crazy i this is the part of the story in which i just kind of lost my mind because.
8:38
Josh: It didn't make any sense. It was like, okay, the Pentagon is saying no to it.
8:42
Josh: Anthropic is saying no to the Pentagon.
8:44
Josh: Clearly, they can't figure it out. Sam Altman was on CNBC earlier in the day supporting Anthropic.
8:48
Josh: And then that evening, they signed the deal with the Department of War that
8:53
Josh: is supposedly the same exact terms because they didn't want to redline.
8:56
Josh: And this was like, oh my God, what do you mean? Was Sam just manipulating the
8:59
Josh: world that he just slide in and actually steal the deal from Anthropic? And in a way he did.
9:03
Josh: It appeared as if the Department for was trying to call Dario at the 501 deadline.
9:07
Josh: He didn't answer the phone. They gave him a couple minutes. They picked up the
9:10
Josh: phone, called Sam, and now there's a deal.
9:12
Josh: And to your point, it seems like there is this key difference.
9:16
Josh: And while a lot of the morals that they were standing on are the same,
9:19
Josh: the key difference is basically in the responsibility and the lawfulness.
9:23
Josh: Like one is kind of proactive, one is retroactive, where Anthropic wanted the
9:27
Josh: ability to sign off on things.
9:29
Josh: Whereas OpenAI is saying, well, you are the government, you are the military,
9:33
Josh: you can make these decisions so long as they are lawful and so long as someone
9:35
Josh: is responsible for like kind of claiming responsibility for these decisions.
9:40
Josh: And we kind of know how that works, where, I mean, perhaps that is not as foolproof as Anthropix plan.
9:48
Josh: It resulted in them getting a, what was it, $200 million deal and a lot of publicity
9:52
Josh: with the government. So it was a big win for OpenAI.
9:55
Josh: And the point of the story where I was like, what is going on here? This is chaos.
9:58
Josh: And mind you, this is just hours before the actual first strikes were about
10:03
Josh: to start. So there was a lot of things happening in anticipation of this mission.
10:06
Ejaaz: Yeah. All of this happened within, like, I can't emphasize this enough.
10:09
Ejaaz: It happened within like four to six hours. All of this happened.
10:13
Josh: I was sitting on X scrolling and I was like, I was sharing something and I was
10:16
Josh: like, oh my God, wait, like a new thing happened. Then a new thing happened. Yeah.
10:20
Josh: Friday night was not a night to go out because the internet was at its peak.
10:24
Ejaaz: The truth was being revealed. I think X had their highest amount of engagement
10:27
Ejaaz: over the weekend. Saturday and Sunday broke both new records. It's a great
10:30
Josh: Time to monitor the situation.
10:31
Ejaaz: Insane. But back to the Sam agreement, they agreed to all lawful use.
10:36
Ejaaz: And the explicit difference there is that they'll settle all kind of grievances
10:41
Ejaaz: in a court of law. So retroactive, as you just said, which is the thing that
10:44
Ejaaz: Dario was just completely against.
10:46
Ejaaz: But there's also some other important safety lines that they put in that I actually
10:49
Ejaaz: think are useful towards addressing this.
10:51
Ejaaz: So one, the models or chat GPT can only be deployed through the cloud.
10:56
Ejaaz: And the reason why this is a better implementation versus letting the government
10:58
Ejaaz: run it locally is that you can monitor and you can track what they're doing
11:01
Ejaaz: to make sure that they're not doing anything nefarious.
11:04
Ejaaz: Number two, OpenAI has a specific vetted team of American software engineers
11:09
Ejaaz: that will always is work on these models and we'll update them.
11:13
Ejaaz: And the best part is the government is hands off on this entire approach.
11:18
Ejaaz: And then the third important point is Dario's agreement
11:22
Ejaaz: His problem was around usage policies. So he basically wanted to dictate when
11:27
Ejaaz: the Pentagon could or could not perform, let's say, a military strike.
11:31
Ejaaz: Whereas in OpenAI's deal, they use usage policies and a software stack that
11:36
Ejaaz: kind of helps them navigate through all of these different legal issues.
11:39
Ejaaz: So it's just a much more detailed and nuanced plan.
11:42
Ejaaz: A lot of people were kind of like against OpenAI for this, but this might be a hot take.
11:45
Ejaaz: I actually think it's a very proactive way to kind of deal with this situation
11:49
Ejaaz: for what we have right now. I think legislation will change eventually going
11:52
Ejaaz: forward. I don't think it's perfect.
11:54
Ejaaz: I don't think it's ready for AI-enabled warfare, but I think it's a good step
11:58
Ejaaz: in the right direction ultimately.
11:59
Ejaaz: And there was this really awesome comment from OpenAI's head of national security,
12:05
Ejaaz: Katrina, who kind of explains these nuances and saying that the safety stack
12:08
Ejaaz: and usage policies that we've set up here is going to be a more reliable one.
12:12
Ejaaz: They called out Anthropic basically
12:13
Ejaaz: saying that it wasn't well thought out and ours is way, way better.
12:17
Ejaaz: The other final cool part about this agreement is that OpenAI explicitly states
12:22
Ejaaz: to the Pentagon that they should offer these terms to every single AI model
12:25
Ejaaz: lab. So they're not trying to secure an exclusive deal.
12:28
Ejaaz: This could be for anyone and OpenAI is just the first vendor.
12:31
Josh: Can we take a moment to just appreciate the fact that OpenAI,
12:34
Josh: the AI company, does have a head of national security partnership?
12:37
Josh: Like, I think this gets to the core of the message of this episode is,
12:42
Josh: and the message of this entire narrative this weekend is who is really in control of this?
12:46
Josh: And not like, when I say in control, in control of everything,
12:49
Josh: Who has the leverage to make the decisions at the end of the day?
12:53
Josh: And it seems like they're, I mean, prior to OpenAI signing this deal,
12:57
Josh: it seemed like they were forming this kind of force against the government, right?
13:02
Josh: This oppositional force where Anthropic was like, we need this to be safe.
13:05
Josh: OpenAI and Sam Allman went on TV and agreed. Google and a lot of employees from
13:09
Josh: that company and DeepMind were kind of on board.
13:11
Josh: They were saying, we're going to draw these hard lines too. We're not working with you.
13:14
Josh: And it created this interesting power dynamic where they actually did have enough
13:18
Josh: leverage to inflict damage on, I guess, matters of national security on the
13:23
Josh: military and limit their ability to use these prime tools.
13:25
Josh: And it gets into this interesting debate of who should be responsible for these
13:30
Josh: decisions. I mean, a lot of people will say the military, they've been elected.
13:33
Josh: They are the officials. They understand they're held responsible for keeping
13:36
Josh: us safe and protected, and they deserve the best tools.
13:38
Josh: And the OpenAI and the Anthropics and the AI companies, they'll say,
13:42
Josh: but you don't understand how these tools work. You don't know how capable they
13:45
Josh: are. You don't understand the nuances within them.
13:47
Josh: And we have spent our whole life trying to design these safely.
13:50
Josh: Therefore, you should trust us to make this decision.
13:52
Josh: And I think it's step one and it's like event number one in a probably longstanding
13:57
Josh: kind of argument that could happen,
14:00
Josh: which is who actually holds the leverage over who and is there a willingness
14:03
Josh: to work together or is this going to be this divisive thing where there's a
14:07
Josh: band of private companies and there's a band of public entities and they are
14:10
Josh: clashing because they have the same goals, but they are at odds with how they get accomplished.
14:15
Josh: And I think this was just an interesting moment of time to kind of reflect on
14:17
Josh: that part in particular.
14:19
Ejaaz: Well, we didn't even mention the craziest part about all of this,
14:22
Ejaaz: which actually answers your question, which is no one knows.
14:25
Ejaaz: For the actual military operation, Epic Fury that was performed over the weekend,
14:30
Ejaaz: it was enabled by Claude after being blacklisted and after being banned completely.
14:36
Josh: That's so ironic, huh?
14:37
Ejaaz: Yeah, it's ironic. So, you know, you had the Pentagon creating this entire fast
14:41
Ejaaz: diary saying, okay, cool, we'll give up means like you can transition to use another model.
14:45
Ejaaz: They signed a new deal, $200 million deal with OpenAI.
14:48
Ejaaz: And then they ended up using the model, which they explicitly banned by the president himself.
14:53
Ejaaz: So it goes to show that there's a lot of nuance with this. I think Claude had
14:56
Ejaaz: been used for well over six months within the Pentagon right now.
14:59
Ejaaz: So it's trained on all of its data. It's being used by all the employees.
15:02
Ejaaz: It's something that they have here. And technically, they do have another six
15:06
Ejaaz: months to transition to another model. So it makes sense that they were still using Claude.
15:10
Ejaaz: And it's obvious that Claude is the current and preferred choice right now,
15:14
Ejaaz: and that'll probably change over the next couple of months. But yeah, it's a very...
15:19
Ejaaz: Unsubstantiated or undefined vector moving forwards.
15:23
Ejaaz: I think US has a lot of angles towards this, meaning they want to upgrade their
15:28
Ejaaz: military offense, but also they're cautious and curious of the rising and looming
15:32
Ejaaz: threat from China, potentially taking over Taiwan and a bunch of other things.
15:35
Ejaaz: So they just want to get ahead of these things.
15:37
Ejaaz: And if they could leverage top American AI model labs to work with them,
15:41
Ejaaz: specifically work with them, that'll be the advantage that they want.
15:45
Josh: Yeah. And it seemed like it was used in terms of like the actual implementation
15:48
Josh: for three things it was for intelligence assessment for
15:51
Josh: target identification and for simulating battle scenarios so
15:54
Josh: the ai isn't directly guiding missiles it's
15:57
Josh: not doing anything kinetic it is mostly just for informational purposes but
16:01
Josh: yes and i think that's where a lot of this discourse comes from now sam had
16:05
Josh: a really interesting ama where he was kind of answering questions too right
16:08
Josh: yep about kind of the public sentiment addressing them doing it live in real
16:13
Josh: time, answering people's questions the night of.
16:15
Ejaaz: He goes, I'd like to answer questions about our work with the Department of
16:19
Ejaaz: War and our thinking over the past few days. Please ask me anything.
16:23
Ejaaz: And his three takeaways were super interesting. Number one, he was surprised at how much
16:29
Ejaaz: 50-50 debate there was between whether warfare in America or national security
16:34
Ejaaz: should be the judgment of elected officials or unelected private companies.
16:39
Ejaaz: It seemed like a lot of people were like, yeah, Anthropic maybe should have
16:42
Ejaaz: some more involvement here in setting the guidelines up to what we use AI within warfare.
16:48
Ejaaz: And then a bunch of other people saying, no, we elected officials specifically
16:50
Ejaaz: for this. They should be the ones doing this.
16:52
Ejaaz: The second biggest takeaway is there's a question around whether like companies
16:57
Ejaaz: like OpenAI eventually become nationalized by the government because that technology
17:02
Ejaaz: is so important and crucial towards things like defense and the economy.
17:05
Ejaaz: And he goes on to say, this was really revealing. He says, I've thought about
17:09
Ejaaz: nationalization, of course, and for a long time, it seems like it might be better
17:13
Ejaaz: that building AGI was a government project,
17:16
Ejaaz: which kind of shocked me there because I understand the existential crisis here,
17:19
Ejaaz: but you know, that was super cool.
17:21
Ejaaz: And then the third thing that he states is people take their safety for granted,
17:25
Ejaaz: basically saying that people don't really realize the lengths and extents that
17:28
Ejaaz: the Department of War and Defense need to go to to protect them.
17:32
Ejaaz: And this is just a misunderstanding through public discussion and nuance.
17:36
Josh: Yeah, the government backed project is super interesting because in the past,
17:40
Josh: when we have done things like this, the Manhattan Project,
17:43
Josh: companies like Lockheed Martin, who had a lot of government support,
17:45
Josh: they've worked very well because it allows you to kind of move,
17:49
Josh: converge resources and talent into a single motive and you get the legislative
17:53
Josh: protection to build as fast as possible.
17:55
Josh: The issue now is there's just this lack of efficiency and capability within
17:59
Josh: those same entities that did this in the past.
18:01
Josh: And the market forces will not allow it. With the amount of capital needed to
18:04
Josh: build these gigantic AI data centers, you can't extract that from taxes. You can't,
18:10
Josh: validate it by printing more dollars. You actually just have to make revenue
18:12
Josh: and do this in private markets.
18:14
Josh: And I think that's the slightly uncomfortable truth is that it's just too expensive
18:18
Josh: and too challenging to do this in any other way.
18:20
Josh: So there has to be this divide between private and public sectors because it's
18:23
Josh: the only way that you can kind of garner resources this effectively to actually
18:27
Josh: deploy them at the scale required to build AGI in the first place.
18:30
Ejaaz: Yeah. And there was this other take, which I thought was super interesting.
18:33
Ejaaz: Rune asked, are you worried at all about the potential for things to go really
18:37
Ejaaz: south during a possible dispute over what's legal or not later,
18:41
Ejaaz: or be deemed a supply chain risk?
18:43
Ejaaz: Sam Olman responds, yes, I am. And if we have to take on that fight, we will.
18:48
Ejaaz: But it clearly exposes us to some risk. I'm still very hopeful this is going to get resolved.
18:53
Ejaaz: And part of why we wanted to act fast was to help increase the chances of that.
18:56
Ejaaz: So again, reemphasizing the point we made earlier, he's taking the approach of take action now,
19:02
Ejaaz: and we'll figure it out later, as long as there are certain stipulations from
19:06
Ejaaz: the government saying they'll do it within lawful use and that there will be a human in the loop,
19:11
Ejaaz: that you won't have AIs autonomously firing weapons at random people because
19:14
Ejaaz: the models just aren't good there. But it's relatively uncertain.
19:18
Ejaaz: This land is very uncharted. We don't know where this is going to end up.
19:22
Ejaaz: And to be honest, it's going to be a very significant debate probably for the next couple of years.
19:26
Ejaaz: I don't think this is going to be a one-off event. It is certainly the craziest
19:29
Ejaaz: 48 hours that we've had in 2026 so far, but it is by no means at its end yet.
19:35
Josh: Yeah, it's been absolutely insane. And now you are mostly caught up on everything
19:39
Josh: that happened this weekend.
19:40
Josh: It was nuts. And I mean, it's to your point, Ijez, I think it's not a conversation
19:44
Josh: that's going to end here.
19:45
Josh: I mean, just in the last, what, in the two months we've went to Venezuela and
19:48
Josh: now Iran, and there's clearly more intent to apply this to the real world.
19:53
Josh: And as these models get more capable, as they're able to actually do more things,
19:56
Josh: these debates are just going to keep heating up.
19:58
Josh: But this one was crazy. I mean, I haven't been glued to my phone like this in a long time.
20:03
Josh: And the plot twist, like this is better than any sort of drama TV show,
20:06
Josh: right? We watched a deal fall apart.
20:08
Josh: The same person who was backing that deal swooped in and stole it.
20:11
Josh: And then within hours, the blacklisted AI was used to actually attack another
20:16
Josh: country, even though a new deal had signed because they still have six months left of contract.
20:20
Josh: And now Dario and the Anthropic team are upset and the public kind of supported
20:24
Josh: them. So it went to number one on the app store. And it's just like.
20:28
Ejaaz: I mean, can we... There's so much. Can we appreciate how quickly all of this
20:31
Ejaaz: happened as well? Like, man, yeah.
20:33
Josh: Shout out to X for this because geez, like the information was flowing.
20:37
Ejaaz: The information was flowing and it came in in real time. Like I felt the hours.
20:42
Ejaaz: Like I woke up, I think it was Saturday morning. I went to bed,
20:45
Ejaaz: like maybe a normal or lame person.
20:48
Ejaaz: And I woke up and I saw, I think a tweet from maybe you, Josh,
20:51
Ejaaz: that was like giving me the breakdown of everything that was going on.
20:53
Ejaaz: And I was like, how did I miss this? This is like an hour after I went to bed.
20:59
Josh: The news is breaking every hour. It was crazy.
21:01
Ejaaz: It was absolutely insane. And it just goes to show that the speed at which AI is accelerating,
21:06
Ejaaz: not just chatbots, not just video creation, but major important things like
21:10
Ejaaz: national defense, security, should not be understated and should be a focus
21:15
Ejaaz: of topic for probably a lot of other sectors going forwards.
21:18
Ejaaz: I don't know if we're at this point where we want to get into homework for the
21:22
Ejaaz: listeners here, but I really want to hear from you.
21:25
Ejaaz: What are your thoughts are on this entire debate? Do you think the Pentagon was in the right?
21:29
Ejaaz: Do you think Dario was in the right? Do you think OpenAI and Sam actually struck the right resolution?
21:34
Ejaaz: Or do you think it's all rubbish and that we need to completely dismantle everything
21:38
Ejaaz: and rebuild from the grounds up?
21:39
Ejaaz: Let us know your thoughts in the comments or even like DMs to us.
21:43
Ejaaz: Like, I really want to hear your feedback.
21:45
Josh: Yeah. And if you want to follow the conversation, we've been monitoring the
21:48
Josh: situation. We've been publishing the situation.
21:50
Josh: Follow both of us on Twitter or on X. They're both linked in the description below.
21:54
Josh: We've been on it, I think between us, we've gotten like 20, 30,
21:57
Josh: 40 million impressions this weekend. It's been crazy.
21:59
Josh: So that is always where you can see the news first before we get on camera,
22:03
Josh: but we will try to keep you updated.
22:04
Josh: If you've watched this, congratulations, you're now up to date for now.
22:07
Josh: We'll see where things go throughout the rest of this week, but we have a lot more planned.
22:10
Josh: There's a lot of exciting topics to cover and we'll be here with you to cover
22:14
Josh: it all. So thank you as always for watching. I very much appreciate it.
22:18
Josh: Thank you for sharing with your friends, which goes a long way for subscribing
22:20
Josh: to our sub stack, which has been doing very, very well.
22:24
Josh: There's like 60,000, 70,000 people that read every single one.
22:27
Josh: So if you want to get in on the know, click the links down in the description,
22:29
Josh: share it with your friends.
22:30
Josh: And as always, thank you so much for watching. We will see you guys in the next one.