Latest / Rooted Conversations with Mitch Webb / Why Addiction Is Not the Problem | Nervous System Healing Truth

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Why Addiction Is Not the Problem | Nervous System Healing Truth · Rooted Conversations with Mitch Webb

0:02
All right, we got Rachel, do you remember that?
0:07
Rachel Martin, do you remember that show from
0:09
like the 90s was like, Martin? No. It was like
0:15
the dude that was in Bad Boys with Will Smith,
0:18
Martin Lawrence. Oh, okay, yeah. He had a comedy
0:23
show and it was like, Martin. And so when I was
0:26
thinking about talking to you today, I was thinking
0:29
about Martin and I thought that'd be funny, but.
0:32
I don't know it, but you know what I was thinking
0:34
about when I was thinking about talking with
0:36
you? Hey Mitch, and I keep thinking of the Hunger
0:38
Games. And Hey Mitch, he was like one of the...
0:43
I forget what his role was, but he was a character.
0:46
Do you see? You don't know that one. I know Hunger
0:48
Games. I've only watched like the original one.
0:51
I haven't watched like, I think there's like
0:53
five of them now. Well, you don't need to. You
0:55
can just watch the news now. Okay. So anyways,
0:58
this is the... Rooted Conversations podcast with
1:01
Mitch Webb. I've got Rachel Martin She is my
1:05
buddy good friend. We've met through our SPT
1:08
time with Irene and I always tell her that if
1:12
we had met several years before we'd be doing
1:14
festivals and raves and all the things together
1:17
That is so true. Yeah But I just want to get
1:20
her on and pick her brain and catch up with her
1:23
and let you guys join along for the process.
1:25
So Rachel, thank you so much for coming on the
1:27
show and tell us what you've been up to, what's
1:31
going on. Introduce yourself a little bit. Okay.
1:34
Well, thanks for having me, Mitch. I'm so glad
1:36
we finally are making this happen. We had a little
1:39
tech difficulties. So we should never just hanging
1:42
out until those cleared. So I think that's probably
1:45
why at least I'm a little. Like three or four
1:49
cancellations. Yes. Yes. Prior to that, three
1:52
or four cancellations. I don't think it was everything.
1:55
Mm -hmm. And, you know, how cool is it that we
1:59
can trust the process in that and, like, not
2:03
freak out about it? Or for me, anyway, that's
2:06
a new thing. Yeah. So, yeah, a little bit about
2:10
myself. Like Mitch said, we met in our SPT training
2:15
through Irene, which was amazing. And we definitely
2:18
would have been party buddies once upon a time.
2:22
Had a lot of fun in that training. And my background
2:27
is I'm in recovery. So I have experience with
2:33
addiction and which I just see as nervous system
2:37
dysregulation. And I think we'll probably talk
2:39
some more about that. And I grew up in, you know,
2:44
I had early adversity. So I have a high ACEs
2:47
score. I experienced chronic illness. I had a
2:52
rare cancer diagnosis in 2019. Went through a
2:56
lot around that. And I've talked about that on
2:59
Irene's podcast for Irene's YouTube channel.
3:03
So if anybody wants to find me there, you can
3:05
learn more about that. And that's ultimately
3:08
what brought me. to nervous system work and to
3:12
Irene and to really getting to the root of all
3:17
this insanity and chaos and discomfort in my
3:21
body and in my life and in my relationships.
3:26
And since 2020, I did Smart Body, Smart Mind
3:29
in 2020, I have been on this journey of coming
3:35
into who I am. Come discovering my own, like
3:40
my actual window of tolerance. Yeah. It actually
3:46
is. Um, and having this more acceptance for myself
3:53
and, um, finding ways to be of service in this
3:59
world of, of healing and in the most authentic
4:04
way possible and the most with the most integrity
4:09
as possible, which is something I love about
4:12
Irene's work, is she is all about the integrity.
4:17
She's the real deal. Yeah, I know. I love a good
4:23
pain -to -purpose story. I feel like that's a
4:26
line that I got from a guy that I worked with
4:28
years ago. And I think it just makes so much
4:31
sense. I don't know that I ever knew what I wanted
4:33
to do with my life. We go to college and it's
4:35
like, what do you want to do with your life?
4:37
I'm like, I'm just trying to have a good time.
4:40
And maybe that's to avoid figuring out all the
4:46
pain that I was in. Like you said, my body was
4:48
on fire and then when we start to find solutions
4:50
to that and we start to heal and get better and
4:53
that window of tolerance is growing and we have
4:56
capacity to share that. That's where our call
5:00
out your purpose, but it's just it feels so good
5:03
to to share that information. Mm hmm. Yeah, I
5:08
like that. Something you said, I can't remember
5:12
the exact words, but I remember the thought that
5:14
came to me is that like finding our purpose in
5:19
there, it to me like finding our. It's you can't
5:24
see my hands, but like this. It's like this alignment,
5:28
this center, this, where my pelvis is connected
5:32
to my heart, everything, like I'm open, my system's
5:36
relaxed, I'm not in fight or flight. It becomes
5:38
clearer, what am I meant to do here and how do
5:42
I serve here? The ability to follow one's impulse,
5:47
this is my experience anyway, is like clearer
5:51
and I have more trust to do it. without trying
5:55
to like, oh, but what if and da da da da, what
5:57
about this? What about that? I need to manage
5:59
it. What will other people think? Yada, yada,
6:02
yada. Like, that's one of the gifts that this
6:07
work has given me. And I mean, I... I was sitting
6:14
in therapy like a couple of weeks ago and I was
6:18
just like melting like, oh my gosh, feeling like
6:21
I haven't done anything, like this isn't working.
6:26
He's like, you know, like come back to that place.
6:30
Like, so I still have little meltdowns. I still
6:32
have little freak outs. Like there's, Irene talks
6:36
about us, like that realization of like, oh,
6:39
there's so much in there. And it's the more you
6:48
know, the less you realize you know. It was like
6:52
one of those moments. So I'm not here to say
6:55
like I've reached any level of perfection or
6:59
mastery. I think just rooting more into reality,
7:04
which, you know, you said going to college, what
7:07
do you want to do? I don't know. I just want
7:09
to feel good. So I don't have to feel all the
7:11
shit that I grew up with and that I've been avoiding
7:15
that I don't know how to process, that I don't
7:17
know how to be with, that I was never given an
7:21
attuned caregiver to show me the way to find
7:26
that I'm okay. So I'm just gonna party. I'm gonna
7:31
chase... for me men, maybe you girls, I'm gonna
7:36
do all this stuff on the outside to try and create
7:40
some kind of feeling of okayness. Safety. We
7:47
didn't learn safety. And so we create all this
7:52
armor through conditioning and we control and...
7:58
I don't know, protect ourselves by taking all
8:01
these trauma responses on that ultimately we
8:05
think is us, like people pleasing and perfection
8:08
and learning how to manage and how we feel. And
8:14
yeah, it makes a lot of sense that you would
8:16
say, I'm learning these things and moving through
8:18
them and I'm not perfect and I'm not the expert.
8:22
It sounds like you're a human that's healing.
8:24
And I think that's beautiful. And I think that's
8:27
why I like to do the podcast. It's like, tell
8:29
us about that. What does that mean to you? And
8:31
let's have conversation about it. Let's do what
8:33
I do with 90 % of my clients is just normalize
8:36
what's going on. Like, oh yeah, that makes sense.
8:38
We feel like we're a needle in the haystack and
8:42
we've got to be the one holding it all together,
8:46
making our body function the way that we think
8:49
is good or bad or whatever that means. And yeah,
8:55
ultimately seeing... This work is really... The
9:01
more I learn, the more simple it gets and the
9:04
more nuanced it gets. And so it's not simple,
9:12
but we're learning all the way through it. I
9:14
think that's something Irene taught me too, is...
9:19
making this a lifestyle and constant improvement
9:22
and it becomes you when it's baked in. Like I
9:26
have really sat down a lot of the healing practices
9:29
that I'm doing on a daily basis. I will say that
9:31
out loud and I'm only going to therapy, yet my
9:35
nervous system is wired to do the things that
9:38
we have learned, to be more in my body, to allow
9:42
and accept the sensations and emotions, let them
9:45
move through and to learn to trust. instead of
9:49
performing and disconnecting from whatever's
9:54
coming up or shaming or blaming that. And it's
9:58
just getting back to being human instead of some
10:00
conditioned armored up, wounded version of ourselves
10:04
that is what society is going through right now.
10:09
And, you know, I think the answer is this work.
10:12
Yeah. Well said, Mitch. I agree that the answer
10:17
is in this work. And like, I say, like, I came
10:21
here to be a whole fucking human, right? Like,
10:25
and that includes accepting those parts of myself
10:28
that are, you know, I've tried to push away,
10:31
that I was told aren't good. And that's where
10:35
the perfectionism and the control comes in, right?
10:38
Because there's some kind of toxic shame. Probably,
10:42
right? There's something that I don't want people
10:44
to see that I've pushed away. I don't think I'm
10:46
good enough. I don't think I'm qualified. I'm,
10:50
you know, imposter syndrome. I don't know enough
10:53
to do this thing, right? And like, even if you
10:56
look at my face right now, it's like freeze.
10:58
Right? Like, oh, I can't. I don't know how to
11:01
act. So I'm going to people please, and I'm going
11:03
to perform, and I'm going to do the things that
11:05
you think, that I think you want me to do and
11:07
be. I spent so much of my life doing that. And
11:11
then, you know, the work for me didn't start
11:14
with the nervous system and that body piece,
11:19
but it did start with more personal development,
11:23
belief work. And then I got frustrated. This
11:26
was before I got, before my illness and before
11:29
discovering the nervous system in Irene. And
11:32
I got frustrated because I could understand why.
11:35
I talked about shit in therapy for so many years.
11:40
I knew the stories. I knew the narrative. I knew
11:43
I had these beliefs. People say, oh, well, just
11:45
you need some affirmations. It's so easy. You
11:50
just need to love yourself. Podcast over. Do
11:53
affirmations. Yeah. You just need to love yourself
11:58
more. What does that mean? Right. I don't know
12:04
that I knew how to feel love in my body. Love
12:08
to me that I experienced growing up was not healthy.
12:13
I wasn't modeled that. I'm reading this book
12:17
right now, Mother Hunger. I'm actually leading
12:20
a little book study on it. Nice. It's so good.
12:25
It's all about it's called how adult daughters
12:27
can understand and heal from lost nurturance
12:29
protection and guidance and she says early on
12:34
in the book like You you didn't something like
12:38
you didn't learn How to to not love your mother
12:43
you learn to not love yourself by Spice by maintaining
12:48
that it's trying to keep that attachment to your
12:51
mother kind of thing. And that really resonated
12:54
for me. So I'm going to disconnect from me to
12:56
stay connected to you. Exactly. I'm going to
12:59
sacrifice my authenticity for belonging. And
13:04
so I was going somewhere with that. It was mom
13:09
and not loving herself. Not learning the time
13:13
that she didn't love her mom. Oh, becoming a
13:15
whole becoming a whole human. Right. So being
13:19
able to accept Those parts that feel shameful
13:24
and like bring it out into the light, right?
13:27
Learning to have some acceptance for those parts
13:30
of myself specifically with recovering from Addiction
13:37
and I don't even there's a part of me that doesn't
13:40
love the word addiction. I don't like it either.
13:43
Yeah recovering from like dysfunctional relationship
13:47
with substances, with sex and love relationships,
13:51
and currently I'm working on my relationship
13:54
with food, which I think ties to my really, really
13:58
early mother stuff. But learning to accept, and
14:03
this gets to what we were kind of talking about
14:04
earlier, that there's no shame. in having done
14:09
those things. There's no shame in the addiction.
14:12
So many people shame the addict, right? Like,
14:16
oh, they shouldn't do that. But the addiction
14:18
is brilliant. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I agree with that.
14:22
It's brilliant. It's even in the big book, it
14:24
says, our liquor was but a solution. What is
14:27
the big book? You name that. OK, all right. This
14:30
is the big book. It's blue. You can see it. Yeah,
14:34
this includes all the stories. So this is like
14:36
the big, big book. And there's a portion of it.
14:42
This is like the Bible for AA. A lot of 12 -step
14:47
programs refer to the big book. And it's a really
14:51
amazing program. It's helped a lot of people,
14:55
helped my dad. That's how I knew about 12 -steps
15:00
before I got into it myself. And even when I
15:02
was doing the nervous system work and... This
15:05
is when my dad was still alive. I visited him,
15:08
and I went to some meetings with him, and I said,
15:11
Dad, I don't know if I have the alcohol problem,
15:14
but I've got the thinking disease. Because they'll
15:19
say it's not a drinking disease, it's a thinking
15:20
disease, right? Because the... I don't hear that.
15:23
Tell me that. Okay. So this is what I'm talking
15:25
about. It's a thinking disease, not a drinking
15:29
disease, because it's not about the alcohol.
15:34
So this section here, I'll read it. This is from
15:37
page 64 in the big book of the section called
15:39
How It Works. And it says, our liquor was but
15:43
a symptom, so we had to get down to causes and
15:46
conditions. Therefore, we started upon a personal
15:49
inventory. This was step four. And so it goes
15:52
on to talk about what step four is, but... It's
15:56
basically like taking a personal inventory of
16:00
our life. Look, we start by looking at our resentments.
16:03
What do we resent? Who do we resent in the world?
16:06
And then seeing where in that we've been selfish,
16:11
self -seeking, dishonest, and fearful. So what
16:14
nervous system state does that map onto? Selfish,
16:19
self -seeking. Well, it could be driven by shame.
16:23
Fearful, right? What happens when we're afraid?
16:27
sympathetic activation or collapse, but the sympathetic
16:33
activation comes first, right? So it's like looking
16:38
at where we're fear -driven, seeing the thoughts
16:40
and behaviors that are associated with that and
16:43
then beginning to dismantle it. And so it's a
16:47
thinking disease. All those things happening
16:52
under the surface that we may not be conscious
16:55
of, we're going to a drink to avoid all that
16:58
shit, right? Or we're going to a drug, or we're
17:01
going to a relationship, or we're going to gamble,
17:05
or going to compulsively spend our money. All
17:09
of that. So that's, it's a thinking disease.
17:12
And then underneath that thinking, well, how
17:15
did the thinking come to be? Because an escape,
17:20
thinking is an escape from what feels, what we
17:22
got in the body. Yeah, yeah. Well, this happened
17:25
to me, and now I'm going to create a narrative
17:27
around it. Have you heard? If I can see it, it's
17:32
not as uncertain. I can control it potentially,
17:35
and then I can feel safe. Yeah. Yeah. I have
17:42
this thought, too, of the thinking without the
17:45
embodiment, it feels like there could be a disconnection
17:48
there, too. And I want to explore that. I want
17:50
to go back to that. I want to put a bookmark
17:53
in that. Build some anticipation. And then bring
17:57
it back to this thing that we were talking about
17:58
before off air. So last week, my aunt who's in
18:04
recovery as well, is really interested in this
18:08
work and I love it. And she asked me, she sent
18:11
me this article. She was like, what do you think
18:13
about this? And it was basically, it was a title
18:16
that was alcohol is not the problem. And it goes
18:19
on to say, That it's not yeah, of course the
18:24
alcohol is not the problem. It's the response
18:27
like you said very intelligently being a resource.
18:30
Thank God we have that and the Suffering that
18:33
we were in and what it really is is the deeper
18:37
attachment wounds the dysregulation the self
18:42
-hatred whatever that may be and Society is not
18:47
ready to deal with the deeper wounds because
18:50
that would take Seeing all the stuff Right. It's
18:54
kind of like we're in this dark room and we're
18:56
not willing to go in there or we have this dark
18:58
room of ourself we're not really ready to go
19:01
into the basement and so we're gonna Shame the
19:04
behavior and the the substance that really is
19:07
a resource so when you hear alcohol is or any
19:12
behavior for that matter is the problem like
19:15
Where's your manga? Well right to that passage
19:19
right like our liquor is but a symptom it's a
19:22
symptom of the underlying thing that wanting
19:25
to avoid ourselves the thing we can't look at
19:29
and it's not it's easy to look at those things
19:33
because alcohol and and drugs especially hard
19:38
drugs like they're so rampant they they create
19:41
a lot more chaos and they're looked down upon.
19:46
But this is just a pattern, right? It's just
19:49
a pattern. Some people play out this pattern
19:52
with their phone screen. Some people play out
19:56
this pattern with marijuana, which is peace,
20:00
love, hippie drug, right? Some people play out
20:03
this pattern with their money and we just call
20:06
them billionaires and we think they're great.
20:08
Oh, yeah. Or some people play it out with power,
20:12
right? Some people play it out with work. They're
20:14
workaholics. And we think they're just really
20:18
great employees and they must be doing well because
20:21
they've built empires, right? But then they're
20:25
still miserable inside because they haven't looked
20:28
within, taken inventory in whatever way and begun
20:35
to look at, hey, what happened to you? And this
20:39
is where even I think 12 steps, like there are
20:42
so many different programs and the like AA is
20:45
great. But then people end up getting stagnant
20:48
there because they've looked at it up here. Right.
20:51
And maybe haven't looked at it here. When you
20:55
say here in the body. Like in the body. And also
20:59
AA focuses more on what did you do? Where's your
21:05
part? What was your responsibility? And it can
21:07
become. shaming people, right? So it's like,
21:11
oh, it's me. I'm the broken one. I'm the bad
21:15
one. I'm never going to be good enough. Well,
21:17
for people like that, there's another program
21:19
called Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional
21:22
Families. OK, I've heard of that a little bit.
21:27
So it's a good program. It helps get more to
21:32
that relational and generational trauma. I'm
21:37
not 100 % clear, but I know that John Bradshaw,
21:42
who wrote Healing the Shame that Binds You, had
21:44
some association with the ACA program. And so
21:49
that, you know, like, okay, now we're getting
21:51
down to shame and shame, you know, if we can
21:54
look at shame and allow ourselves to be aware
22:00
of our body while we're examining this work.
22:05
then we can really start to heal because it takes
22:09
the right like top down and the bottom up approach
22:12
and where they meet to integrate and and sort
22:18
of alchemize dissolve and expand and then create
22:23
new ways of relating it's not it's not like it's
22:28
really easy to get into so you create this awareness
22:33
of our coping mechanisms and where that's coming
22:36
from, and then go into an identity of, I am bad,
22:41
like a shame -based identity because of the thing
22:44
that we use to manage all of that. And is that,
22:49
that's kind of what the, the more the parental
22:52
thing you just mentioned. It sounds like adult
22:55
children, but emotionally immature parents. Yeah.
22:59
Probably this is quite close maybe, but is that
23:01
kind of what's going, do you see? like that shame
23:04
identity of this substance thing that I'm using
23:07
instead of going into is that is that two things
23:11
there? I think it like I think it can be a part
23:15
of the process. Yes. I think it's so critical
23:19
to be able to see that. But I think that's kind
23:22
of what that article was was eliminating is like,
23:26
hey, alcohol is not the problem. Like I can I
23:28
can we're talking about off air I can see myself.
23:30
where I've been addicted to health -related stuff.
23:34
And first, that was exercise, and then that was
23:38
different diets, and maybe for sure, biohacking.
23:44
And then, like, the Joda spends a quantum physics
23:50
type of thing where I'm going to just meditate
23:51
for four hours a day, you know? Some lovely dissociation.
23:56
Yeah, dude. And I'm going to learn fasting. Fasting
23:59
taught me how to really disconnect from my body.
24:02
Like I'm going to take this uncomfortable thing
24:04
and it's going to be good for me if I just keep
24:06
going with it when the body's saying, no, dude.
24:09
And so we, we, but that's what trauma is where
24:12
we learn to not listen, disconnect. We, we push
24:16
away our natural impulse and we're, you know,
24:19
fixated on the outside for love and attention
24:22
and validation. How do I do this thing? And then
24:25
we get into the fixing and figuring out and then
24:29
we're just we're stuck and it's like we have
24:31
to Rebuild this awareness to even learn. What
24:36
is our body telling us? Which is the brilliance
24:40
of smart body smart minds and what Irene's created
24:44
there a pathway to beginning to notice and bring
24:48
attention and intention and it's that really
24:53
basic work that's so potent that we need before
25:00
we can do the deeper things, right? I like that
25:06
you brought up being addicted to other things,
25:10
to these behaviors. Can I ask a question? Yeah,
25:16
go ahead. What would you say you were? What what
25:23
did you want to receive from those things? I
25:27
Wanted to feel good I wanted to like and I think
25:30
about alcohol too because I certainly had you
25:32
know lots of partying back on the day and I just
25:35
don't like hangovers, you know, and so that's
25:37
where I Didn't like that as much but I remember
25:42
specifically when I had my like iceberg moment
25:45
I call that when the band -aid rips off the All
25:50
the activation that's underneath the freeze comes
25:54
out, and we get to experience that, and I'm running
25:56
doctor to doctor going, you know, what is this
25:59
feeling that I have? And the doctor writes down,
26:01
you know, you have anxiety. And I remember, what
26:03
is that? I don't even know what that means. And
26:06
so from there, I think I got, I was into, I saw
26:11
a therapist on campus, and he was asking me,
26:14
you know, I was in a fraternity. I was the social
26:16
chair of my fraternity, so I was the one in charge
26:18
of party throwing. And I was really good at that.
26:22
But I remember talking to him and him asking
26:25
me, like, how many beers do you drink in a night?
26:27
I'm like, I don't know, like a case of beer.
26:30
What do you mean? Like 24 beers or something
26:31
like that, 12 beers. And I do remember too, before
26:36
going, I was social chair. I was very social.
26:39
I thought I was. Until I learned when I didn't
26:42
have that, that I was kind of like real Pharaoh
26:44
with, you know, on Talladega nights where he's
26:46
like, I don't have to do with my hands. Because
26:49
I would have shotgun beers or whatever, and then
26:54
my anxiety would be better, and then I could
26:57
be in connection. Eventually, I could be what
27:01
I felt like was myself, but I felt more free.
27:03
I was free of the activation and the sensation
27:06
in my body that made me feel like my body was
27:08
on fire. As I got more into the health world,
27:14
I was like, man, I really don't like these hangovers.
27:17
And so I started backing off of that and I would
27:20
only do it on the weekends. And then I would
27:21
notice, oh, I feel like crap on Monday and Tuesday.
27:24
Why is that? Well, now let me substitute that
27:28
for hot yoga and CrossFit. And now let's find
27:34
restrictive diets. And it's like, and something
27:36
you said before we got on, it's like, I was,
27:38
you said hopping drug to drug to see what does
27:41
my system need? Does it need an upper? Does it
27:43
need a downer? And mine was, is this, the more
27:48
I restrict my diet, is that gonna be where I
27:51
don't have this anxiety? I was always trying
27:54
to get rid of that even in therapy the first
27:56
time I went, Mitch, why are you here? I wanna
27:57
get rid of anxiety. That's like, well, that shit
28:00
ain't gonna work here. You know, that's a, it's
28:02
actually a good thing. It's our body, it's telling
28:04
me this isn't, it's telling me you need to heal.
28:07
And it just took me a long freaking time to find
28:09
this work. And I think for me, that was probably
28:13
good because I needed that slow journey of I
28:19
don't know like to learn because I was very different
28:24
you know I was uh very close -minded and you
28:30
know all the stereotypical jock macho that kind
28:34
of stuff um I still definitely am bro but like
28:39
I am multifaceted and I accept myself in so many
28:42
different ways and um That's been so much of
28:46
what's helped me here recently is just accepting
28:47
and allowing. But yeah, does that answer the
28:50
question? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Accepting and allowing.
28:53
I mean, that is the way. And what I heard and
28:55
really like what underneath all of that, what
28:59
you were looking for was okayness. I'm not broken,
29:04
right? I'm okay. I'm safe. And like, what is
29:11
it that is going to fix that for me? I'm like,
29:15
I'm just gonna do whatever I can to get there.
29:19
And that's really like, at the root of addiction,
29:24
it will say like, looking for something to fill
29:26
the God -sized hole, because the Toll Set program
29:29
is very spiritual, spiritual but not religious,
29:33
big focus on a higher power, which is really
29:36
like being able to relax into that parasympathetic,
29:40
open... state of being relaxed and engaged. So
29:46
having enough of that ventral vehicle online
29:50
to be outside of the narrative of who you think
29:56
you are and the suffering that we've experienced.
30:01
I recently started volunteering with hospice.
30:04
Nice. So rewarding. And as part of the training,
30:09
for this, they're doing a special thing this
30:11
year. And so last weekend, I did a weekend on
30:14
how to understand spiritual suffering, you know,
30:18
very, really relevant to end of life care, and
30:22
so relevant to this work that we do, because
30:26
I mean, that's the nature of trauma is that we're
30:28
stuck in some kind of suffering that's all tied
30:31
up, you know, in our nervous system. And really
30:37
closely related to the stories I tell myself
30:40
about the world. Are you familiar with Deb Dana?
30:45
Her work with like, she works, she has some worksheets
30:49
that use like ladders that help you see like
30:53
where your glimmers are and how you move up through
30:56
the different states in the Polyvagal Theory.
31:01
But there's something that she says that I really
31:02
like, that story indicates fate. Indicates what?
31:08
Story indicates state. Okay, so if I explain
31:12
that. So if I'm telling a story that... Dude,
31:16
this world's so fucking crazy right now. Like,
31:18
can you believe that? Like, you can't even walk
31:20
outside. You might get shot. I don't know what's
31:23
gonna happen. Like, our cities aren't safe, and
31:25
we live under a dictatorship, and this man is
31:28
so dangerous and evil, and I don't know what's
31:31
gonna happen, and I fear for my life, and I need
31:34
to tell everyone about it that they better be
31:36
careful and they better stay away. What state?
31:40
What's going on there, right? Like, holy activation,
31:44
Batman. Right? But if my story is, ooh, there
31:51
is a lot of stuff happening around me, and I
31:55
feel for the world, and there are a lot of people
31:57
hurting, and there's still beauty. Like, I saw
32:00
the sunrise this morning, and the sun set last
32:04
night, and so, you know, the earth is still turning,
32:07
and I got to connect with my friend Mitch today,
32:10
and it was really awesome, and I feel... really
32:13
really good about that and I took my dog on a
32:15
walk and I nourished my body and I still really
32:21
like love the world. It's not black or white
32:25
it's a it's holding multiple truths at one time.
32:30
Yeah there's more spaciousness right like it's
32:33
more indicative of a nervous system that is open
32:38
and curious and what happens when when we're
32:43
activated, we lose, like you, you talked about
32:45
this earlier, I can't remember if we were recording
32:48
it, but when you were talking about pot, right,
32:52
like you could go, you had, you gained this space
32:56
to be curious about your beliefs and your actions
32:59
and your compulsions. And when we're in an activated
33:04
state, it's like, you know, it's like, they call
33:07
it blind rage for a reason. Because you can't
33:09
see anything else. Even the eye is narrow. Curiosity
33:16
goes offline. It's like we're so fixated on the
33:24
pain. It's the thing that is so loud that there's
33:29
no... We got blinders on or tunnel vision. And
33:33
so then we find something that... that takes
33:38
that pain away temporarily and it's like, oh
33:40
my God, I found the thing. Can I be on this all
33:42
the time forever? Yeah, for addiction, yeah.
33:47
Or we find the thing that we think is causing
33:50
the pain. Oh, it must be how I'm eating. It must
33:54
be how you think it's causing the pain. So if
33:55
I fast and I eat right and I fix that, then the
33:58
pain will go away. So I'm going to take this
34:00
out. I'm going to talk about this on a large
34:02
scale of the world. Well, if... The government
34:06
is the problem, whichever part of the government
34:09
you don't like, whichever side. If that is the
34:12
problem, then if they get fixed, my pain will
34:15
go away. Yeah, it's the fixing and figuring out
34:20
stuff. It doesn't work that way because the pain's
34:26
here. Well, it tells us that there's a constant
34:30
threat that I can't get away from. that was me
34:34
with the anxiety and I did it so long and I exhausted
34:40
myself trying everything that I possibly could
34:43
but then my body went into collapse and have
34:46
that fatigue and at that point that's when I
34:50
was like okay I'm about in there I didn't know
34:52
about acceptance and allowing it's like when
34:54
my therapist was talking to me a couple recently
34:57
about being versus doing and I'm like how do
35:00
you do that what do you mean How do you do being?
35:05
Yeah. Does that mean I'm going to, like, oh,
35:07
I do just need to meditate all the time? Is that
35:08
what you're saying? Not quite. I do my affirmations
35:12
and I'll meditate and, you know, I'll make sure
35:15
I look at the sun every morning and eat this
35:17
amount of food and work out every day and...
35:21
I'll be perfect, right? Yeah, yeah. That, oh
35:24
gosh, I just, I read some other book and it was
35:28
some AA literature. But anyway, I don't think
35:33
it's actually conference approved, which doesn't
35:35
matter. But it was talking about that illusion
35:38
that we will be fixed. If we're doing anything
35:43
to be fixed, it's already kind of like we're
35:51
not allowing and accepting a common base on that
35:55
thing that we're broken. That's the thing that
35:58
big breakthrough for me was... Okay, if fixing
36:01
and figuring out is survival, when we bring in
36:04
more safety and regulation, it's more safety
36:08
and trust. Meaning, it takes the good and the
36:14
bad out of it. And it's like, no, I can meet
36:16
myself at whatever decision I make, and I can
36:21
give myself grace to pivot and to have that,
36:25
oh, that's more information. And I've been trying
36:28
to uncouple the good and the bad, the judgment
36:31
from just, this is what is. And this is the decision
36:36
I've made. How do I want to meet myself here?
36:39
Because before it was, I found this new thing,
36:42
I was trying to figure it out, and this thing
36:44
is gonna fix me, and it does for about a week.
36:47
And then shaming again, it's just a cycle. We
36:51
stay in that fix, pain, fix, figure out, resolve,
36:57
shame, back in the cycle. And so for me, what
37:01
I did, what I learned to do, what I do with my
37:04
clients a lot now is mapping the compulsions.
37:07
So when I have uncomfortableness, such as pain,
37:10
whatever you want to call suffering, what do
37:12
I do? And it was hard because some of these things
37:16
are things that I love to do. And I was also
37:19
telling myself I can't do the things that I love
37:22
until I'm perfect. And so I had to get clear
37:25
on what are my values I had to kind of put things
37:29
on a schedule for a period of time and make it
37:32
to where I create new opportunities to observe,
37:38
to experience things differently. And that gave
37:40
me new information. And through the repetition
37:43
of meeting myself at whatever I did and the symptoms
37:46
that would come up from that, you mean I'm going
37:48
to stop this thing that I've been doing, it's
37:49
been helping for so long, whether it's eating,
37:51
working out, pot, whatever. If I can, I'm going
37:54
to put that down. Well, yeah, my system's been
37:57
doing this for a long time. I'm like, all right,
37:59
cool. I'm going to learn to sit in this fire
38:01
and learn it's not going to burn me. And it's
38:05
like, oh, I might, sleep was a big thing for
38:07
me. So maybe, yeah, maybe I do have dysregulation
38:10
and I don't sleep for two or three nights, but
38:11
you know what? If I stay with that, that good
38:13
night of sleep comes. Now I've got a new, now
38:17
I've got more capacity to be with. And I can
38:20
see that Here's this choice and here's this and
38:23
if I make this choice I can be with that and
38:25
I can be with this and neither of these make
38:27
me wrong But what feels good and it's like a
38:31
question I was gonna ask you is kind of like
38:33
is this difference between compulsion and impulse
38:35
like true bodily wisdom What is that a question
38:40
well I'm saying that and yeah, I can make that
38:42
question. I mean What do you think about that?
38:46
Yeah, I mean I think it's it can be really hard
38:51
to tell when we're first starting out because
38:54
we just don't know what we don't know, right?
38:57
Like the compulsion is so tied into our identity
39:02
and who we are and how we know how to be and
39:05
it's there for a reason because it's covering
39:08
up that... like force energy that wants to come
39:12
up, which is all anxiety is, right? And so like
39:15
that saying like you're forged in the fire, like,
39:18
hey, that's pretty dang true. And impulse to
39:24
me is that more like it's something that comes
39:29
up and it's the body's organic intelligence and
39:35
it's moving us towards something that is meant
39:41
for us and is maybe good for us, is maybe, right,
39:44
now I'm thinking of Irene's example of you're
39:47
driving on the road and you get an impulse to
39:49
maybe go a different way because there's an accident
39:52
or you get an impulse to slow down because there's
39:55
a bear that's going to cross the road. Like that's
39:57
an impulse. It's like, it works like with our
40:06
neuroception and all that. based in presence
40:10
rather than in chasing safety, which is what
40:13
I, and I could be wrong on this. This is just
40:16
how I see it. I'm not an expert, but compulsion
40:20
is like, I need to do this or I'm not going to
40:23
be safe. I need to do this or I'm not going to
40:24
be safe. I need to do this or I'm not, right?
40:27
Like, I need to do this to be okay. And impulse,
40:33
I had an impulse to go to the dog park yesterday
40:38
when I was gonna go hike. I don't know, okay,
40:43
I'll go to the dog park instead. Well, there
40:45
was someone there that literally text messaged
40:48
me like 30 seconds before I pulled in the parking
40:50
lot that I hadn't seen in a while. Where'd that
40:54
come from? And this too, I think is where this
40:58
work gets down for me because I'm pretty dang
41:01
spiritual. It gets down into the more I'm in
41:04
my body, the more I'm in my nervous system, the
41:07
more I listen to that feeling, that voice, that
41:12
whatever, and I don't try to logic it away, the
41:17
more aligned with soul and with source and my
41:21
purpose that I become. Yes. And it feels so good.
41:26
I learned this recently. It was kind of being
41:30
in a therapy container kind of thing and with
41:34
a therapist and seeing myself start to trust
41:39
what I've been feeling in my body, though it
41:43
was not clear at the time. And when it became,
41:46
it became more clear because when I went with
41:49
that and I'm like, yeah, that feels good. you
41:52
can watch the whole system kind of relax, open
41:58
up, excitement, flow, and then the pattern comes
42:04
in, I'm going to disconnect to my body, I'm going
42:06
to go into my mind to rationalize this, to overthink
42:11
this, and just watch this happen. And it's like,
42:15
whoa! And since then, realizing that what I thought
42:20
was my My weakness, my sensitivity, it's my strength.
42:25
It tastes so wild. It is a freaking superpower.
42:28
And it's not to sit here and go, yeah, me and
42:31
Rachel have figured out we're super sensitive.
42:33
I think everybody is super sensitive, you know?
42:35
I do too. I think it's possible. I think we just,
42:39
our world isn't really designed for us to be
42:42
in that. And it takes work to develop it. The
42:50
world's designed to take us out of it. Here's
42:52
your quick fix. Here's your pharmaceutical. Here's
42:55
your shitty food Numb it distract you distract
42:59
it That's what she that's what's fun is You know,
43:05
and then we go like Yeah, it was a great this
43:09
man. Yeah What I get what a gift that is and
43:13
it's really interesting how we shame that and
43:18
make that Weakness. Oh, yeah. Like recovering
43:23
from an addiction. Or being a man. Oh, being
43:27
sensitive. Being sensitive. No, same time. Addiction,
43:31
same time, for sure. You know, like the one that
43:33
you said that was so good was, I'm really good
43:36
at accumulating money. I'm a billionaire. It's
43:37
like, oh, man, we want that. And then I was thinking
43:40
about that. I'm like, I haven't really thought
43:42
about that one. As much. You know, I'm a, I see
43:47
like a hustler, a serial entrepreneurial person,
43:51
someone that can't quit learning. It's like,
43:55
I'm not satisfied. I can't be cool with here.
43:58
Maybe what's wrong with Paul's and I here for
44:00
a minute. Yeah. What would that be like if you
44:03
just were here? If you weren't constantly growing.
44:09
That's what B it is. That's the B part. Hey,
44:11
you know what, you know what that keeps reminding
44:13
me of? Just walk. Just walk. From SPT, from our
44:20
last intensive. Oh, yeah. And the passing through.
44:24
And we're like goofing off and like, aha, we're
44:26
at a festival. And then Irene's like, just walk.
44:30
And I had this aha moment of like, it was like
44:33
my face melted off. Yeah, where you're performing
44:36
and pleasing. And it's like, man, can I just
44:40
be cool wearing a... I don't know, scowl, but
44:43
can I just be cool being neutral and walking
44:45
around and man, that was really fucking uncomfortable.
44:50
And I would be yawning like crazy when I was
44:53
doing that because it's like all that stuff is
44:56
coming up and some of it you're aware of it and
44:58
some of it it's not. Did that change for you?
45:02
Because we did that for people who are like,
45:06
what the heck are they talking about? During,
45:09
so for SBT level one, we had two intensives,
45:13
one in the fall and another in the spring. And
45:15
at the last one, we did a lot of games. We did
45:17
a lot of games. We did a lot of just like walking
45:21
and things with constraints. So like, you can
45:26
only do this or no talking, that kind of thing.
45:31
And we did these activities like multiple times
45:35
over the six days that we were together, seven
45:37
days. It was a while. It was like, yeah, eight,
45:41
nine, eight, nine, eight days. I think it was
45:43
eight days. Maybe, yeah. So it was interesting,
45:48
like I can observe in myself how I changed throughout
45:53
these activities and the repetition of them and
45:57
the reminders, which may have been the same words
46:00
from our facilitators. But like they changed
46:05
because I changed and I got to discover more.
46:10
So like, Mish is talking about like being uncomfortable
46:12
in that. And I had uncomfortable, but then towards
46:17
the end, like that last practice that we did,
46:21
I had just this experience of, oh, like I'm all
46:28
here. And this, we also did this. Yes, and I
46:34
was okay. I felt... It wasn't calm. It's hard
46:40
to put into words. It was like, and it was just
46:42
a flash before I was back in my mind, but it
46:45
was like, I'm all here. It reminds me of the
46:49
other exercise activity that we did with Ilya,
46:55
where it's like, me, you, over there, everywhere.
47:01
Right? It was like everywhere. I was here, I
47:06
was out there, I was forward, back, I... And
47:11
it was all okay. And then I came back, you know,
47:16
and I experienced that too watching our peers.
47:22
I don't know which... You were in my group, I
47:24
think, but... And there's, for those who want
47:27
to get an idea of what I'm talking about, Irene
47:30
posted a video, a short video of our last SPT
47:34
Intensive, and it shows us doing this walking
47:37
thing, passing through. It's just expansive.
47:41
It was just like, it was presence. So the being,
47:44
it was just being. Yeah, that connects. And,
47:48
excuse me, and after that, that's when I really
47:51
was noticing like, wow, I am... Like who am I
47:55
when I'm not performing? And what's it like to,
47:59
and I, as soon as I say that I have this image
48:01
of like putting down the sword and maybe it's
48:03
like putting down the armor, the protective that
48:06
says the identities that we pick up that make
48:09
us okay with ourself. You know, I'm a, I'm a
48:12
health coach and I, you know, I like blue, I
48:16
do blue devils and I play golf and you know,
48:20
I'm a silly son of a bitch whenever, But that
48:23
silliness I found, I love that part of me. And
48:26
the more I get regulated, that just is naturally
48:28
who I am. And when I was uncomfortable, that's
48:33
how I felt made others, or not others, had myself
48:37
feel better by making other people laugh, by
48:41
not just being with what's here. And it was so
48:45
hard to see that. And it's like the gift that
48:49
kind of keeps on giving with that. I think we're
48:52
always learning. I mean, that's what this work
48:54
is, is just an unwinding, peeling back the layers
48:57
of... And it's in the beginning, at first it's
49:01
like, ooh, what is that? You know? That's not
49:04
me, that's not me. Like, oh yeah, that's me.
49:07
Not long after that, I had this dream. And I've
49:10
been kind of analyzing my dreams a little bit.
49:13
And it was this really cool dream where it was,
49:17
I was... at my childhood home or I think it was
49:19
my grandmother's house or something like that.
49:22
And there were these people outside and I'm going
49:29
to find like my shotgun because I'm going to
49:31
go like scare them away or something. And the
49:34
bullets wouldn't work. I'm obviously like to
49:38
hunt here. And so I'm trying to find the bullets.
49:40
Bullets wouldn't work. Gun wouldn't work. Wouldn't
49:42
work. So I go out there like just with whatever
49:44
I've got. gonna be scary and I'm yelling at these
49:48
parts they're all sitting around a fire I say
49:50
parts and kind of give it away but um I'm like
49:54
I'm yelling and screaming at them like what y
49:56
'all doing here and they're just looking at me
49:58
like just like they're being and if I think about
50:01
it they're just and I'm going crazy and eventually
50:05
I go and it's cold outside and they're around
50:07
a fire and I go like hey you want to come check
50:09
out my sauna I got a sauna inside it's warm like
50:12
you want to come inside and they're like yeah
50:14
oh before that too you're like this here's comes
50:17
child consciousness it was like you're being
50:20
mean and i'm like oh wow so when i analyzed i
50:25
was able to see that and and it's as i'm welcoming
50:28
these parts of me that i had pushed away and
50:30
i said you don't belong and that invitation to
50:33
come inside and they all kind of sparked up whenever
50:37
i said come inside check out the sauna you'll
50:39
love this and uh we like the sauna and they were
50:42
and that was kind of the end of the dream I say
50:45
we like the sauna because we did a bunch of sauna
50:47
together when we were at SBT. We did Mitch in
50:50
his Viking hat. But I want to thought that's
50:56
a beautiful dream, first of all. It's so clear.
51:00
And I got chills when you invited the parts into
51:03
the sauna. And I think two things I want to say
51:06
about that is the importance of our dreams and
51:10
how it were processing through them. Like I dreamed
51:14
so much more during SPT, in our intensives, yes,
51:20
and after. I also have been dreaming more lately
51:24
doing the work right now that I'm doing with
51:27
my therapist. So dreams are really important.
51:31
You know, some people just like, oh, that dream,
51:34
whatever. But I think the more we pay attention
51:37
to them too, the more we can consciously Integrate
51:41
those messages. Mm -hmm. Yeah, and then And then
51:45
I was gonna throw in there I think what's going
51:47
on in the dream is we're like processing the
51:49
things that feel like too much in waking life
51:51
Yeah Yeah But you're saying that we interrupt
51:57
you Well that hey guys want to come see my sauna,
52:02
that's so the playful Mitch and you highlighted
52:06
that part. That's like You employ that tactic
52:11
when you're uncomfortable, but it's also, like,
52:15
really just a natural thing of who you are. And
52:19
when you're in more of that relaxed state, you
52:21
have more access to that because... Yes. ...comes
52:25
from a ventral vagal state, like real play comes
52:29
from, there's an impulse, there's no point. But
52:32
then you can also deploy play in a... I'm going
52:37
to say manipulative, even though it's not consciously
52:40
manipulative, but it is because you're trying
52:42
to employ play to cheer other people up, but
52:47
in that cheering other people up, it's actually
52:49
achieving you being like, oh yeah, I belong in
52:53
people like me. Sorry if I just kind of like...
52:55
No, I love that. I love that. But it's a good
52:59
example of how there's truth in the play as being
53:04
part of who we are. But when we're attached to
53:08
it or we're using it to maintain something from
53:12
a place that isn't true, it's different. And
53:15
that's the same thing with our addictions, right?
53:19
Are you using alcohol to numb, escape and avoid
53:23
and keep that life force down? Or like, can someone
53:28
actually just engage with alcohol because they're
53:31
in Italy and they're having a Amazing pasta dinner
53:34
and like a little glass is nice. Yeah Yeah, that's
53:40
that was I'm so glad you named that because it
53:43
was difficult During that period after the second
53:47
intensive of like who am I without being silly
53:52
and I was in a deep freeze for about six months
53:55
it felt like and as I came out of that The the
54:00
silliness came back online It's like I'm just
54:03
talking about, you know, eventual value. I'm
54:05
engaging with everyone at the at the checkout
54:07
lounge. Hey Not to Before I think the difference
54:12
is is like I felt so bad that if like I could
54:17
Not be perceived as how I was feeling not be
54:20
seen as how I was feeling like shit That that
54:23
was kind of like how I could dance around like
54:25
so that I'm not seen maybe definitely and and
54:29
now it's more of like No, I do. I love joking
54:33
around and being silly and especially like there's
54:36
a guy kind of, you know, when you go to the grocery
54:38
store, there's like a, here there's a bunch of
54:41
like special needs guys that are at the grocery
54:43
store and they're my favorite. This guy was just
54:45
chatting me up and we were goofing off so much.
54:48
He's like, do you like the cold? I'm like, yeah,
54:50
dude, do you like the cold? And he was telling
54:52
about how he'd went swimming and like somewhere
54:54
that was soup. Like it's not Antarctica, but
54:57
something like that. And we were just cutting
54:59
up and having a good time. And this girl, we're
55:02
all smiling and it's fun. And I walked away from
55:04
that thinking like, what a great social engagement.
55:07
What a great, I'm so glad I got to have that
55:09
moment of conversation. And it wasn't to get
55:14
anything out of it or to make myself feel better
55:17
or make them feel better so that I can feel better.
55:19
It was just like, feels really good. And I think
55:22
that's the being versus the doing. Doing is I'm
55:26
gonna... make something happen. Yeah, I'm going
55:30
to make something happen where I'm just, this
55:32
is what feels good right now. Yeah, following
55:35
your impulse, following the energy and creating
55:39
more of it. And that I think is why this kind
55:42
of inner work is so crucial to alleviate the
55:47
pain in our world right now. Because if you're
55:51
in that state, And you're just with what is and
55:54
you're engaging with the greeter person and you're
55:58
joking around and someone else feels that energy
56:01
and they're uplifted by it. It's that ripple
56:04
effect that goes out versus you go in and you're
56:09
angry and you're this and that and maybe that,
56:12
you know, kid says something to you and you snap
56:14
at them and then that gets... passed along like
56:18
energy is contagious. It's like the most contagious
56:22
thing out there. Yeah, I felt like it's like
56:28
I could feel both at that time when I was having
56:30
that fun conversation. I could feel the wounded
56:33
part of me of how he would respond if he'd been
56:35
in that situation and been a little bit annoyed.
56:38
You know, a little bit like I got to be somewhere
56:40
or something like that. And it's like so cool
56:42
to just drop in and notice that somebody else
56:45
is having a good time and wanting to chat. And
56:49
the more we can regulate being our body, the
56:56
more we see that and see that fun and loving
56:59
and look for the good things instead of constantly
57:02
scanning our environment for what's wrong and
57:04
trying to fix it and catastrophizing. And I think
57:07
that's a beautiful place to be because that's
57:10
what's happening in the world. And we can look
57:12
at we can look at what's going on and we can
57:15
go, oh my God. And believe me, it's a shit show
57:18
sometimes. And so much beautiful shit is happening.
57:22
People are waking up. I mean, I was, I love the
57:24
conversations that I'm having. They're getting
57:26
more and more weird. You know, I've had to keep
57:28
all my weird stuff in for so long and now I get
57:30
to like talk about aliens and you know, it's
57:34
like good stuff, fun stuff. Yeah, that makes
57:37
me giddy. I remember meeting you at the first
57:41
SPT and be like, We talk about that? You guys
57:45
talk about this stuff, you know? Oh, yeah. I
57:49
mean, aha. I love that. By the end of it, you're
57:51
like, hey, guys, guess what? Well, and then I
57:53
came in and I'm like, man, I love conspiracy
57:58
theories and aliens and all these different things.
58:03
And I'm going to have to really keep this under
58:04
wraps because they are not. And y 'all loved
58:07
it. And then by the time I came by the second
58:09
time, I'm like, man, what is going on? I have,
58:12
I'm crying every day. Like I, you know, I am
58:15
full -blown conspiracy theorist. Disclosure is
58:20
happening anytime. And everybody just, yeah.
58:24
So it's like the more, it's just normalizing
58:25
what I thought was weird and exploring what feels
58:28
good and permission to change my mind and my
58:31
opinion if, if I want to, and not to hold on
58:35
to anything too tight and not take anything too
58:37
damn serious. Yeah. And to acknowledge that,
58:43
like, I love what you highlighted about witnessing
58:47
yourself in that interaction and going, oh, an
58:50
old version of me would have done this, and this
58:52
is how I show up now. And that ability to see
58:56
and accept change without shame. And maybe there
59:02
was some shame somewhere. I know I can do that,
59:05
like, because I can look back sometimes and go,
59:07
ooh. You were really like that, huh? Yeah. You
59:13
know, but it's just like, oh, yeah. And so if
59:16
we can change, then we can acknowledge that the
59:22
world can change, that other people can change,
59:25
and that it's not so serious or so dire necessarily.
59:32
I mean, a lot of hope in that. Yeah, I think
59:35
that's a great place to hit the rap button. Yeah.
59:39
Thank you so much, Rachel. Anything you want
59:43
to promote? You want to say where people can
59:44
find you? Check you out. Yeah, they can find
59:46
me on Instagram. I'm at Unraveling Rachel and
59:50
that you were saying earlier, like, we unwind
59:53
and I want to be like, we unravel. What does
59:56
that mean to you? What does unravel mean versus
59:58
unwind? Well, it's just the word that came to
1:00:02
me probably 12 years ago. I had this feeling
1:00:09
that like life was like this, you know, like
1:00:12
I was wearing this too tight, itchy wool sweater
1:00:16
and everything hurt me, you know, and I was miserable
1:00:21
and I wanted to unravel that. Right. I wanted
1:00:25
to feel more this. Yeah. And and so that that
1:00:31
was has been. This looks good on you, girl. Thank
1:00:34
you. So yeah, find me on Instagram at Unraveling
1:00:38
Rachel. I'm doing a thing right now where I'm
1:00:41
challenging myself to go live every day as a
1:00:47
practice of just being present and engaged. I
1:00:52
am going to be offering a book study on the courage
1:00:55
to be disliked. I was planning to do it around
1:00:57
Valentine's Day, but just with stuff that's been
1:01:00
going on, I think I'm looking more at... March
1:01:02
is realistic. And it's an awesome book on Elyrian
1:01:07
psychology really gets into like some of those
1:01:11
thought patterns and how we can build better
1:01:13
relationships. And I look at it through a nervous
1:01:17
system lens. So I bring some nervous system teachings
1:01:20
into it. So some embodied way of looking at it
1:01:24
and also a little bit of 12 step philosophy into
1:01:26
it. So for anyone who's interested in that. building
1:01:30
better relationships in your life from a nervous
1:01:34
system -informed lens. That'll be coming up.
1:01:38
You're going to break the candles out this time?
1:01:44
Yeah, the first time I led this, my power went
1:01:50
out right before a pod that I had. I had a pod
1:01:54
that I was in with Mitch and our teacher Seth.
1:01:58
And then I was leading that group and I did it
1:02:01
all by candlelight. It's so dope. You were freaking
1:02:04
out about it. And then you moved right through
1:02:07
that. And you're like, I see that thing that
1:02:10
you're talking about. I'm centered now. My pose,
1:02:12
my heart, everything is lined up. You're like,
1:02:15
I'm doing this shit on cover candlelight. And
1:02:17
that's just like a dope ass move. You know what?
1:02:20
For the rest of the week, we did it for six weeks.
1:02:24
I did it by candlelight. from then on out. It
1:02:27
was like, it was like my signature thing. If
1:02:30
you hadn't like, that's kind of what you're talking
1:02:32
about earlier about going to the park and it's
1:02:34
like, yeah, you could have went and took the
1:02:35
dog for a hike, but the candles were way more
1:02:37
dead. You know what I mean? You couldn't went
1:02:40
for a hike, but the dog park, you know, I'm just
1:02:42
trying to put this thing together. Part of the
1:02:46
thing, I know we're wrapping up, let me just
1:02:48
say this, part of the thing with that happening
1:02:53
was like, oh my gosh, what are people going to
1:02:56
think? I am leading this thing and I'm doing
1:03:01
it by candlelight and it's not gonna look good.
1:03:05
And really people were like, oh, that's badass,
1:03:08
right? Like you figured it out. And my pod before
1:03:12
that was really about that and just showing up.
1:03:16
And that's really my goal right now is showing
1:03:19
up as a full fucking, full fucking human. And
1:03:24
that's one more thing is I'm going to be launching
1:03:27
my own podcast shortly here called The Courage
1:03:31
to Be Human. Nice. Where we talk about... Inspired
1:03:34
from the book? It's kind of inspired from the
1:03:37
book? Inspired from the book. Yeah, play on the
1:03:41
book and... really speaking into something that
1:03:45
I see as important right now with the rise of
1:03:49
AI. And you can't, I scroll on Instagram and
1:03:52
I see people, I'm like, that post was written
1:03:55
by AI. And now I hear people speaking and I'm
1:03:58
like, they're reading something that AI wrote
1:04:01
and I can feel it. And I'm just like, no, I'm
1:04:05
here to be, you know, I got the natural hair,
1:04:09
natural, yeah. So it's important to be human.
1:04:15
Yeah, and that's what this work is is about becoming
1:04:18
a whole fucking human and and living in alignment
1:04:23
with our biological nature and the nature of
1:04:27
the world and that to me creates greater greater
1:04:31
peace, so That's that's about it Well, I appreciate
1:04:38
you coming on it's been so awesome catching that
1:04:40
with you chatting with you and This is the Ruby
1:04:45
conversations podcast and if you're following
1:04:47
us on YouTube give us a like a follow We love
1:04:51
comments rituals information will be tagged up
1:04:54
in the comments If you want to reach out to her
1:04:56
if you have a question for her if she doesn't
1:04:58
see it I'll get it to her and Thanks for turning.
1:05:01
Yeah. Thanks for having me Mitch everyone