Latest / Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries / Episode 42. Brad Phelps (Grand Lodge Education Officer)

Transcript

Episode 42. Brad Phelps (Grand Lodge Education Officer) · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:20
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:20
  Welcome back.
• 0:21
  It's another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.
• 0:25
  My guest today is a past master at Rochester Lodge No.
• 0:28
  21 and Cassin Mantorville Lodge No.
• 0:31
  11.
• 0:33
  He likes history, but he really loves people, their stories, and sowing the seeds of meaningful relationships, the brotherhood we talk about.
• 0:44
  So frequently as Freemasons, he's currently in his second stint as the Grand Lodge education officer in Minnesota.
• 0:52
  And when he's not a busy Mason, he's spending time with family, carves out some time for, I like to call it that pesky job at the Mayo clinic is everyone has to balance that as well.
• 1:01
  Welcome Brad Phelps.
• 1:03
  Reed.
• 1:04
  It's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:05
  Thanks so much for, for joining me.
• 1:07
  Tell us a bit more about you.
• 1:08
  If you've listened to the podcast, you know, the drill would love to hear where you grew up, where'd you go to school.
• 1:14
  Certainly.
• 1:15
  So I grew up in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
• 1:18
  Uh, it was a great place to grow up.
• 1:21
  Uh, back in the late 70s, early 80s, people were very close to each other.
• 1:29
  So I grew up with, uh, the neighbors in the neighborhood as extensions of my family.
• 1:35
  Uh, I went to school, uh, at, at Washington High School in Cedar Rapids.
• 1:42
  Um, followed my mom's footsteps and went to the University of Wisconsin Eau Claire where I studied computer science and English and met the love of my life, Amanda Phelps.
• 1:54
  And that was one of my questions.
• 1:55
  How did you meet your lovely bride?
• 1:57
  So you met in school?
• 1:58
  We did.
• 1:58
  Yeah.
• 1:59
  I, I had had a breakup with a girlfriend and went to the on campus nightclub.
• 2:05
  Um, uh, it's kind of an interesting thing, but music has always centered me and so I just kind of sat there alone and was listening to the music and Amanda came and approached me which was really out of character for her and we became friends and eventually Started dating.
• 2:25
  What was the song playing when you met?
• 2:27
  Do you remember?
• 2:28
  Oh, you're gonna get me into trouble I know she that night There was a lot of nine inch nails the timing was right and there were one of my favorite bands I don't know specifically when she walked up to me, but it's very likely it would have been something like that or, um, club music from the early 90s.
• 2:48
  See, I was hoping it would be something.
• 2:50
  You'd remember but almost be like a like a Bonnie Tyler song or something.
• 2:55
  I'll save myself.
• 2:56
  So after After meeting we we the first thing we did is walk to a time machine So if anybody is listening to this from Wisconsin, they know what I'm talking about for the rest.
• 3:10
  It's a Automatic teller machine.
• 3:12
  Okay, and it was A few blocks away and during that we somehow heard Uninvited by Alanis Morissette and that kind of became our song.
• 3:23
  Nice.
• 3:24
  She just played at the Yacht Club concert in St.
• 3:28
  Paul a few weeks back.
• 3:29
  It was a two day festival.
• 3:31
  The Black Crows canceled the day before.
• 3:33
  I was super bummed.
• 3:34
  I won't get into that now, but apparently she was outstanding.
• 3:37
  Several friends and brothers attended that and said, I'm, well, basically we missed out a ton on that.
• 3:44
  So you pursued computer science in school.
• 3:46
  Is that something that, tell us about your role at Mayo Clinic.
• 3:49
  Yeah.
• 3:50
  So I I'm very proud actually to be a part of Mayo Clinic story.
• 3:54
  Uh, and there was a documentary that came out not long ago that really.
• 3:58
  Brought that home, you know, you can contribute to an overall mission.
• 4:02
  But until you see something like that documentary, it sometimes is not obvious how much of a role you're playing in it.
• 4:12
  So I'm a principal software engineer.
• 4:14
  I have the pleasure every day to serve many people that are out there delivering software to help mail clinic and its practice.
• 4:25
  Been involved in architecture and engineering roles at Mayo since 2007.
• 4:32
  Uh, I really love the philosophies at Mayo and their rich ties.
• 4:39
  That stands for respect, integrity, caring, healing.
• 4:44
  teamwork, innovation, excellence, and stewardship, uh, themes that are probably very familiar to us.
• 4:51
  And that's no coincidence because both Will Worrell Mayo and his son Charlie Mayo were indeed Freemasons and members of Rochester Lodge No.
• 5:00
  21.
• 5:01
  And that's something we've had a lot of fun conversations about in the past with how much overlap there was with the Masonic fraternity, our value teachings, and what inspired them.
• 5:12
  To start initially from, I believe it was a very humble beginning.
• 5:17
  Is it, can you tell me the quick story about when the microscope, the, the, the, uh, mortgage of the house or the, this is, give us a little context on the, what time, uh, what year we're looking at at this time too.
• 5:30
  Yeah.
• 5:31
  Um, so I, I don't know the end or the exact year.
• 5:34
  I can say that will warl was the.
• 5:39
  examining surgeon for the Union Army in Rochester, Minnesota.
• 5:44
  So that puts it in somewhere in the 18, probably the late 1860s, by the time, sorry, 18, yeah, 50s or 60s, somewhere in there.
• 5:56
  Um, and he had the recognition that he could help serving the community around him if he got some better instrumentation.
• 6:06
  Um.
• 6:07
  Wanted to get a microscope.
• 6:08
  Approached his wife and said that he wanted to purchase it and they had to mortgage their house to pay for it.
• 6:13
  So, unbelievable.
• 6:14
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:15
  Uh, this shows up throughout the history of Mayo Clinic and Will Worrell, not to be confused with his son, Will, Uh, ran for numerous offices, was on the school board and ended up becoming a Minnesota Senator.
• 6:30
  Uh, and the reason I say not to be confused with his son, Will, Will and Charlie, uh, both practiced medicine, were involved with Mayo Clinic, are very famous, and there's sculptures at Mayo that show them.
• 6:45
  Charlie came back from med school and petitioned at the lodge almost immediately and became active in the craft.
• 6:51
  Will deferred petitioning, but later showed interest.
• 6:56
  By the time he took the step, he was so busy with administrative work at Mayo, he just could never Get the time to go through the degrees and a funny story.
• 7:07
  I verified this in Rochester's sesquicentennial book.
• 7:11
  The Grand Master wanted to make Will Mason on site.
• 7:16
  And the legend has it that Will's response to that is if I went through the degrees so, so should Will.
• 7:24
  Um, so yeah, some of this is confirmed in the sesquicentennial book.
• 7:28
  Interesting.
• 7:29
  Interesting.
• 7:29
  It's, it's sad that, that Will never became a member, but he definitely was a large supporter for the Lodge, just like Charlie.
• 7:40
  Well, I, I think of that story frequently, that life being so full of near misses.
• 7:46
  What if he had not purchased that microscope?
• 7:51
  That was the Catalyst for the Mayo Clinic and all that we know it to be today.
• 7:56
  That was the first step.
• 7:57
  And I'm sure if you're going to mortgage your house to purchase something, obviously there's a little tension on the home front with that, but he did it.
• 8:05
  And that just ended up cascading from there.
• 8:09
  Yeah, for sure.
• 8:10
  And you know, the butterfly effect I think is a real thing.
• 8:14
  Uh, we oftentimes don't know how specific factors cascade into how the world evolves.
• 8:20
  But what I will say is.
• 8:22
  This was a part of Will Worrall's character.
• 8:24
  Uh, there's numerous stories about sacrifice focusing on the patient that ultimately turned into what we say now, um, needs of the patient come first.
• 8:35
  And, uh, it shows up in, in the collaborations that were established in Mayo Clinic and why we have research, education, and practice as our, as our shields today.
• 8:50
  Well, I really admire what you do in your role, and that must be, I can assume, very gratifying to be contributing technology and computer IT, all of these things, to the inner network and functioning of an institution making an impact on the globe.
• 9:07
  Yeah, a hundred percent, and you know, it was really driven home when my, my daughter Taryn was born.
• 9:15
  Many listeners may not know that.
• 9:18
  My youngest daughter, Taryn, was born with a rare syndrome called Mobius Syndrome.
• 9:22
  It means that her sixth and seventh cranial nerve didn't develop like they should have.
• 9:28
  Um, because it's rare, it's not, it's not largely known.
• 9:35
  And the RN at Nurse, and I, or an RN at Mayo, and I had with the physicians.
• 9:45
  was unparalleled and just a tremendous sense of family.
• 9:50
  You know, I'm a technologist and I'm home at the time with my three year old daughter.
• 9:58
  And what was I gonna do?
• 9:59
  You know, I went straight to Dr.
• 10:01
  Google and started sharing the things that I was observing about Taryn and found YouTube presentations and articles about Mobius.
• 10:12
  Shared it with Amanda, who is staying with Taryn, uh, who then gave it to the physician.
• 10:18
  The diagnosis came out, and, uh, the physician was very humble and said, We've made the diagnosis that indeed your daughter has Moebius Syndrome, but I think your husband diagnosed that before we did.
• 10:33
  See, well done on Dr.
• 10:35
  Google or self diagnosing on WebMD that, uh, It happens more and more as we age that, Oh, I have a little pain or this, and Oh God, this could be WebMD says this might be really bad.
• 10:46
  Yeah.
• 10:47
  You got to be careful with that.
• 10:48
  Um, you know, there's technology unlocks a lot of things, but it's important to still, of course, consult with your physician and healthcare providers.
• 10:58
  It can be very easy to, to misdiagnose the, the good thing about Mobius is there are some very specific things.
• 11:06
  Uh, that really led to that, and it was just a matter of exploring and trying to discover what it is that was largely unknown for two to three weeks of our life.
• 11:16
  Wow, that had to be, it was brutal, brutal.
• 11:20
  I can't think of that.
• 11:20
  Well, there, let's go with brutal.
• 11:22
  Yes.
• 11:22
  And on the positive of that, to have a wife who's an RN and then being already immersed in Mayo and having resources like that was perhaps the, the best.
• 11:35
  Um, and I think that's a really good option if you were having to go through this.
• 11:38
  Yeah, I mean, I remember thinking how blessed we were.
• 11:43
  Uh, in fact, I wrote a two, two part article about this, both for Mayo and for the Osman.
• 11:49
  I can tell you the connection into Osman in a minute.
• 11:52
  That really highlighted the blessing of the, the colleagues that we had, both from, uh, Obstetrics, where my wife works, and from IT, and, and where I was, and I thought, This is pretty cool, too, that I'm able to help my daughter because at the time I thought some of the challenges she faces, technology over time may be able to help with as well.
• 12:16
  The connection to Osman is, Osman Shrine, Osman Shrine, yeah, is Mayo didn't have a hydrotherapy program at the time, and one of the The effects of Mobius is limited eye movement, and we take that for granted.
• 12:35
  Taryn can cross her eyes, but she can't turn to look out of the sides.
• 12:40
  And that's pretty pivotal to balance and walking when you're young.
• 12:46
  And because of that, her muscles were somewhat atrophied.
• 12:51
  We didn't know if she would ever be out of a wheelchair.
• 12:53
  Uh, some of my Shriner friends heard about this and came to me and said, you know, we do this at the Shriner's Hospital.
• 13:04
  Uh, would you consider coming up for that?
• 13:07
  And we, we did that a few times and I, We got braces for her, and I have no doubt that that was a huge contributing factor to why she's walking today, and often I have a hard time giving up with her.
• 13:22
  Wonderful story, and to see that collaboration in mentioning Osmond Shrine and the Shrine Hospital here locally now in Woodbury, and we've had similar conversations with Dr.
• 13:34
  Masonic Cancer Center at U of M, the collaboration, the sharing of all of these resources.
• 13:40
  The results of research with, with Mayo, they're comparing notes all the time on things like this.
• 13:46
  It's, that's a good, thanks for sharing that.
• 13:48
  I've learned a lot about you so far today of, I didn't know that Amanda was an employee there in, near you or within the, within the system.
• 13:58
  You had also touched on a documentary, which was also sparked my mind that we've been talking, you and I about another documentary that has come out recently.
• 14:08
  Uh, by Robert Putnam.
• 14:11
  So if our listeners may or may not have heard of a book that, uh, Robert Putnam wrote back in the late eighties, early nineties called Bowling Alone and, uh, Robert Putnam had a pretty fascinating career of researching the value of social capital, social networks.
• 14:28
  He spent a significant amount of time 1970s and basically concluded that places that have.
• 14:37
  that, that do have a reality of better government, a more harmonious society, are where people are involved in activities.
• 14:46
  And activities as in civic involvement, fraternal organizations, churches, any sort of a community group.
• 14:54
  And bowling alone was followed up by a book he wrote called The Upswing.
• 15:01
  We're very excited that coming up on November 11th, we are going to be hosting at the Ives Auditorium at the Minnesota Masonic Heritage Center, a showing of a documentary called Join or Die.
• 15:15
  Now the Join or Die documentary is highlights Robert Putnam's work in Bowling Alone and The Upswing.
• 15:23
  And, and really showcases the positive realities of getting involved in our society again.
• 15:31
  He does cite the, the join or die title is a bit of a play on words.
• 15:36
  When I initially heard that, I thought, well, is this just going to be all about John Adams?
• 15:39
  But the reason he titled that is that a person's chances of dying within the next year are cut in half if they were to join one single group.
• 15:52
  So, joining a group, whether it's a fraternal organization, a civic organization, you, you pick.
• 15:57
  Fill in the blank of whatever that passion might be for someone.
• 16:01
  And he, we're really looking forward to this, about a 90 minute production that will be airing again on November the 11th, it's a Monday night, at the, uh, Ives Auditorium at the Minnesota Masonic Heritage Center.
• 16:14
  More to come on that.
• 16:16
  And to be clear, no snakes will be harmed in this join or die initiative, right?
• 16:21
  Good reference, and those who get it will get that one.
• 16:23
  But I think that's a great point to talk about how we become a bit lost.
• 16:30
  Our focus in this world, the priorities that we have right now.
• 16:35
  We feel so disconnected in this digital isolation that we live in.
• 16:40
  The world is so focused on I, me, and my.
• 16:44
  Have a great day.
• 16:44
  You've heard me talk a lot, a lot about the friendship recession that exists out there.
• 16:49
  Earlier this year, the Wall Street Journal polled men in their 30s.
• 16:53
  One in five men share it that they have zero close friends at all.
• 16:59
  Zero.
• 17:00
  So, if we ask the question, what is our purpose within a society that is, the reality is we're isolated, we're alone, And yet somehow we spend a lot of time championing things like unity and collaboration and coming together.
• 17:16
  This is quite the paradox, but what are your thoughts on that?
• 17:19
  Oh, I couldn't have said it better.
• 17:21
  You know, we live in a world where Twitter entices us to share ideas and limited amount of words.
• 17:28
  And I think that's problematic because as one of my heroes says, we are doomed to see the world as we are and not as it is.
• 17:37
  And especially as people have gone remote, uh, they're more and more disconnected from people.
• 17:46
  You know, when I was a kid, if I wanted to go see a movie, I had to go to a movie theater, and I was around people.
• 17:53
  If I wanted to play video games, very few people could, uh, afford a console, and went to the arcade.
• 18:01
  If I wanted a computer, some people had them, but a lot of times we had to go to a computer lab or to the library.
• 18:09
  Consumerism has made it so we all have this in our home, and functionally it disincentivizes us from getting out into the world.
• 18:19
  Additionally, while we might be more connected, um, The art of being able to have a conversation and seek first to understand then to be understood is sadly lost.
• 18:32
  And part of that is because even though we're interconnected, it's like giving everybody a bullhorn and not having real time interactions.
• 18:42
  And from a workforce perspective, One of my other heroes, uh, Simon Sinek, talks about appropriate usage of business tools and asynchronous communication.
• 18:56
  You shouldn't do that for things that could be potentially emotional.
• 19:00
  And yet, we find ourselves trying to do more and more of that in the name of efficiency at the cost of effectiveness.
• 19:10
  You know, I'm a big fan of Simon Sinek.
• 19:12
  And it also reminds me of David Brooks, an author, commentator, columnist who recently showcased the reality, put it really well, that here we are connected by all of these different platforms, social media, online chats, you don't even have to list all of those.
• 19:31
  And yet society now equates an online or virtual experience as somehow connection with others.
• 19:40
  And we know that not to be the case.
• 19:42
  We have that illusion of contact because, We have hundreds if not thousands of friends or followers or, or some sort of interaction but that is truly hollow.
• 19:54
  That is not the basis for an authentic and a meaningful relationship.
• 19:58
  And yet, here we are in this world that can't figure out why can't we connect when we have so much connection.
• 20:05
  Yeah, no, that's And, and I'm going to double down on what I said about efficiencies as opposed to effectiveness.
• 20:13
  You know, for, for the brothers that are listening to this, I would ask, How many of us know, really know the, the members that we're connected with in our lodge to the point where we know the name of their wives, their kids, what their passions are?
• 20:28
  Um, and, and can really speak to that.
• 20:32
  Uh, if you're able to do that, wonderful.
• 20:35
  If not, I would challenge you to do that because that's how those relationships are built.
• 20:41
  It's a great point and that also reminded me of something that when David Brooks had shared in his book that seemed very applicable to us in our Masonic Lodge setting and in fact it even applies to our work setting at the office or even at home that just because we spend time together under the same roof does not mean that we truly know one another and maybe that's more prevalent in the office.
• 21:08
  You can think about a co worker you maybe have had for five years or 10 years.
• 21:12
  Sure, you know their name.
• 21:13
  Maybe you know the name of their kids.
• 21:15
  You've seen their photo on someone's desk or at their cubicle.
• 21:19
  But yet if that's where it stops, if you don't have curiosity about that person, spend time together away from the mission of work.
• 21:28
  And develop and hone and work at that relationship, it's easy to be blissfully aware of the reality of someone that we're right next to.
• 21:38
  And not to mention what happens even in relationships, couples that have been married for years and years and years.
• 21:45
  And maybe this is something more for older people, older than us, but how often have we heard that someone say, well, even though we've been married for.
• 21:57
  50, 60 years, my spouse doesn't even know me at all because we stop, they stop being curious about one another.
• 22:03
  They stop talking, interacting, and really doing more than just being pedestrians around one another.
• 22:11
  How, how do we get around that?
• 22:13
  In this world, this is quite the, the crossroads we're at with social media and the ability to post something from the basement and let it go viral and have no consequence of that, but.
• 22:26
  The connection really is face to face, human to human.
• 22:32
  I just don't believe that AI will ever be able to replicate the human connection.
• 22:37
  It'll do a lot of things for us.
• 22:39
  But if we want to thrive in a world of AI, we had better get good at relationships, both within our Masonic and fraternal circles and in society in general.
• 22:50
  Yeah, well, there's a lot there.
• 22:52
  So The first thing is I'd love to respond to what you said about AI simply by saying We should be mindful that AI is ingesting information that we are providing and it is Helping it To build those probability matches on how things should be answered So from that perspective Please keep in mind What's reflected in what we do that's captured in an information age because AI is going to be able to ingest and utilize that.
• 23:27
  And, uh, a comic book reference, with great power comes great responsibility.
• 23:34
  Yes.
• 23:35
  With regard to your other point, um, I think it's really important to reflect on our, our situation here in the world.
• 23:50
  And one of, I've struggled with this, like why does person A do what they're doing or person B do what they're doing?
• 23:58
  The first thing is we have to get to a place where we must assume, uh, no evil intent.
• 24:08
  Um, I really don't think most people get up in the morning to wreck our days.
• 24:15
  And one of my most loved advisors, my mom, once told me, you know, Brad, uh, people have a tendency to be very self absorbed.
• 24:34
  Uh, they're not thinking about how what they're doing is impacting you.
• 24:38
  They're thinking about what it, what it means for, for them.
• 24:41
  They're And couple that understanding with what I referenced earlier from Covey, with we're doomed to see the world as we are, not as it is, and understanding that we're each experiencing life through a first person experience.
• 25:00
  So right now I'm seeing a lot of certain topics are off limits, or people getting really upset and not considering Hey, maybe I should seek to understand why somebody is saying something.
• 25:13
  We've become judge immediately.
• 25:17
  Um, and, and use language that I would equate to fire.
• 25:24
  And there's some, there's some martial arts, uh, philosophies that talk about when you are approached with fire, you must respond with water.
• 25:34
  And, uh, When you get language of water, which I would equate to complacency, uh, you need to respond with fire.
• 25:44
  And I don't mean hateful words or strong words, but maybe enthusiasm or energy.
• 25:52
  The reason why all that's important is if we want to heal some of what we're talking about and move forward and get better, we've got to get back to a place where we're able to engage in thoughtful debate.
• 26:04
  Get to a place where we're comfortable with, I have a view of the world, uh, and I have opinions, but I'm open to having my mind changed through dialogue.
• 26:17
  I heard a good quote recently that the hotter the topic, the cooler the tone and couldn't agree more with that.
• 26:25
  It's so, I really appreciate what you shared and from that perspective, as we are just immersed in.
• 26:31
  A world that seems to celebrate the divisiveness, winning at all costs, ground and pound your opponent no matter what.
• 26:39
  Not seeking to find that middle ground like we once were able to do.
• 26:44
  And maybe that's always been there.
• 26:46
  We interviewed Tom McCarthy a few weeks back and I made a point on a few things and he, he very respectfully, but reality said, well, some of the things that you're acknowledging now at the age that you were at for me, that they, they've always been there.
• 26:59
  Reed.
• 27:00
  Well, okay, fair enough.
• 27:01
  So maybe some things are becoming more magnified to me at this point.
• 27:05
  But in my role is in working with membership with, with Grand Lodge specifically, I am meeting tremendous young men who are seeking a lot of things in the world that we just described.
• 27:20
  They're seeking connection, they're seeking a mentor, a network of friends and brothers who embrace.
• 27:28
  core values and a like mindedness, yes, but still maintaining everyone's own unique identity.
• 27:36
  But there's such an exhaustion out there.
• 27:38
  Just generally speaking, aside from even our fraternal groups, there's such an exhaustion of the divisive arguing, the I'm right, you're wrong.
• 27:49
  And then if we don't agree, we can't be friends.
• 27:51
  And it's something that.
• 27:55
  And this is what keeps the hamster wheel going at three in the morning for me sometimes.
• 27:59
  How will we, clearly we, we may not be able to have a wholesale change just individually, but if we all take a concerted effort at that, is that, is that where we begin?
• 28:11
  Yeah, for sure.
• 28:12
  And I think part of that goes back to my previous challenge with getting to know people.
• 28:19
  You know, it's, if you really don't know somebody and just know their name, you don't understand what makes them tick.
• 28:25
  You haven't taken the time to do that.
• 28:27
  It can be a lot easier to be judgmental.
• 28:30
  Whereas if you get to know them, you become friends.
• 28:34
  Um, it's way easier to give them the benefit of the doubt.
• 28:38
  And for those of you that, that are in industries where you're working remote, I would give you that same challenge.
• 28:48
  Get to know the people that you're around.
• 28:50
  Find ways to do meetups.
• 28:52
  Really get to know them.
• 28:54
  So that you can really drive home that assume no ill intent philosophy.
• 28:59
  And try to have activities that stretch the mind and, and get people to compare notes.
• 29:07
  Cause that's our only way to, to really understand the world we're in.
• 29:12
  I saw an article on LinkedIn recently that And to keep it short, basically summarize that remote workers are at this, they're having a conundrum.
• 29:24
  Those that can work remotely 100 percent of the time are on one hand feeling really isolated, completely disconnected for all the obvious reasons.
• 29:33
  And yet the option of going back into the office doesn't appeal to them either.
• 29:38
  So how are you, there's going to have to be a little give to get in order to.
• 29:45
  I get it.
• 29:45
  We all want to work remotely if the weather's bad or have that option.
• 29:49
  Flexibility and use of technology obviously is, is something important, but there's a balance there.
• 29:56
  Is it, you touched on something when we chatted recently about.
• 30:02
  Is it work or life or classrooms?
• 30:04
  We're trying to make everything so comfortable at all times.
• 30:08
  Are, what's your, what was your take on that?
• 30:11
  Yeah.
• 30:12
  So just like we've become addicted to, uh, instant gratification, uh, cynic talks about dopamine.
• 30:22
  So there's, there's biological reasons for this.
• 30:24
  We've grown to like easy answers and they're really, for anything that's truly important, There is no real easy answer.
• 30:36
  So, it's important to understand corporate missions and cultures.
• 30:40
  You know, the teams that make up that culture.
• 30:44
  Some people are going to say from a betterment of the whole, they're going to bring staff back on site.
• 30:53
  And that, I've seen that happen with some companies.
• 30:56
  And that's great if it helps.
• 31:00
  Create a good corporate culture and it, and, and leads to the mission.
• 31:05
  Some will be hybrid, uh, some will stay completely remote.
• 31:10
  And I think you have to look at the cohesion of the team and the organizational mission to make that decision.
• 31:20
  That said, I do predict that for those of us like myself that are more extroverted and get So to see if the staff's background can and are charged up by being around people.
• 31:31
  You might see if the company doesn't call the staff back that people band together and rent office space so that they can work together and be co located, even if that's not something that's happening in the company.
• 31:45
  I experienced that personally in a former profession.
• 31:55
  Everyone was still efficient.
• 31:56
  It was a phone based recruiting type of a role.
• 32:00
  Teams still got along, but having that disconnect over time, those who were maintaining an efficiency and productivity were granted, you want to work at home?
• 32:11
  Work at home.
• 32:13
  But over time, over the course of two years of that, it was palpable that the team chemistry was suffering from that.
• 32:22
  That people were undercutting one another.
• 32:24
  This is a very challenging career anyway in the world of recruiting clients and candidates and it was something that I look back in hindsight and didn't really realize at the time.
• 32:35
  But having that disconnect, everyone being isolated behind a computer at home or wherever their workstation was that day, really led to less of a connection, less courtesy, less kindness, less.
• 32:49
  Hey, let's find a solution to this, the, the, the, the infighting was off the charts and, and obviously hybrid work arrangements is, it's the way to go and it's the way of today's world and of the future and flexibility is key.
• 33:04
  But there's so much to be said about the experience of spending time together in a quality way and not just staring at each other on teams or on zoom.
• 33:18
  And how this all really comes back around as well to our Masonic fraternity and the experience that facing the reality that society has changed too because the prior generation of people focused on acquiring things and stuff has transitioned into people focusing on experiences and I really want to see us acknowledge that reality in package our product, for lack of a better term, in that manner, that the young, younger folks that are the average age of, of interested gentlemen and joining our Masonic fraternity is about 35.
• 34:04
  They're tired of chasing the stuff.
• 34:06
  They're seeking that connection.
• 34:07
  They're seeking to have their lives enriched by giving back in the, in the community, in a meaningful way, So, uh, we're going to be meeting friends, brothers, someone that could serve as a mentor for them, or someone that they could be a mentor mentee type of a relationship.
• 34:23
  And it's really not complicated.
• 34:25
  And yet, the world makes it complicated.
• 34:28
  Sometimes these, these starting point solutions are less difficult than we, forming that new habit.
• 34:37
  You know, I'm a big fan of James Clear, as also he He wrote a book called Atomic Habits, and he, one of his quotes was, I'm sorry for being a quote machine, but I'm not smart enough to come up with these things.
• 34:48
  I like to read everyone else, Simon Sinek, James Clear, David Brooks, you name it.
• 34:53
  But it's also applicable to our personal lives, our professional lives, and our Masonic experience too.
• 34:59
  One of his quotes was, if you're having trouble sticking to a new habit, try a similar version until it becomes automatic.
• 35:07
  Do less than you're capable of.
• 35:09
  but do it more consistently than you have before.
• 35:15
  Yeah.
• 35:16
  Um, you know, as software engineers, we understand that the only way to master things is to practice them.
• 35:23
  And however we can get closer to doing that, uh, is an important thing.
• 35:29
  And, you know, it's a good segue into applied education because it's one thing to say that you've read about something or understand it.
• 35:39
  It's, another thing to actually practice it, and that's one of the things that I'm super grateful to be a part of this fraternity for because I'm surrounded by men that have a common mission and want to work to improve themselves, and how they go about that is is unique based on what different differentiates them as brothers and differentiates the lodges.
• 36:10
  And I just think that's a wonderful framework to be able to apply some of that iterative approach, uh, to practice that you just talked about.
• 36:20
  Well, it's something I've appreciated about you as a friend and a brother in our conversation comes full circle that I know you like history.
• 36:28
  We love talking about the Mayo family and so many Masonic history and otherwise, but you love people.
• 36:35
  You love their stories.
• 36:37
  You are about the relationship.
• 36:39
  And it is one of those things that you and I as friends know that my phone is on 24 seven and yours as well.
• 36:47
  And we both know that if there was ever anything, however great or small that I needed or you needed.
• 36:55
  Call me, text me, whatever you do, don't think that, Oh, I shouldn't bother.
• 37:00
  I shouldn't bother Brad.
• 37:01
  It's it's too late or it's inconvenient.
• 37:03
  That is the essence of our, of our fraternity is knowing what's going on in each other's lives, being there for one another.
• 37:11
  And as that discovery has come from me personally getting older, it's really powerful.
• 37:17
  Yeah, boy, that's, that's a really great topic too.
• 37:22
  And.
• 37:23
  For people that are wired as people whose cup is filled by service, it can be a hard deal if people are afraid to approach you.
• 37:35
  And I see this both in the workplace where people are remote, you know, there might be somebody in leadership or so forth that people are afraid to approach because they're afraid they're busy.
• 37:50
  And the same thing with the lodge and, uh, oftentimes that, that leads to, to loneliness.
• 37:59
  So you know, if there's something that you can, you can learn from a brother, or if you, if you need their help, I, as you said, Reid, I, I wouldn't hesitate.
• 38:10
  And you're right also that there's, there's a list of brothers that I know very well that Uh, if, if I really needed help, or if Amanda needed help, she knows who they are.
• 38:24
  And if every single member of the craft doesn't have those people in mind, Uh, something needs to be addressed about how we're practicing.
• 38:38
  Because, That's one of the key pieces of who we are and getting to know people and making sure that everybody has somebody that they can, they can look towards for guidance and have as a mentor.
• 38:53
  And the thing about true mentorship that I really love is the mentor learns just as much from the mentee as the mentee learns from the mentor.
• 39:04
  It's symbiotic if it's healthy.
• 39:07
  And it becomes mutually beneficial.
• 39:10
  Uh, there, there are a number of people like that over the years that I've been very blessed to know.
• 39:16
  Uh, both as, both in family as well as in fraternity and professionally.
• 39:21
  And I will just put it out there that if you're struggling to find somebody like that, please reach out to me because I would love nothing more than to have a conversation with you.
• 39:33
  And that's what makes me so excited about.
• 39:36
  the showing of Join or Die in November featuring Robert Putnam's years and years of research that there's so much value of social capital, social networks.
• 39:49
  He was called to the White House in the 90s.
• 39:52
  The research he did and the insight that he basically shine a light on that that was right under our noses that.
• 40:01
  But places that have better government, a more harmonious community or society, those are places where people are involved in civic activities.
• 40:12
  You name it.
• 40:13
  Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis, our group, the Freemasons, Shrine, the list is long.
• 40:20
  Churches, synagogues, houses of worship.
• 40:23
  The bottom line was that to, to get out and connect, join, get involved.
• 40:31
  We the society of that really that is the first step we we live in this world of neighbors not knowing each other Apartment residents dwellers don't know anybody living on their floor anymore because we're so busy doom scrolling.
• 40:45
  We're so busy on The device looking for that rush that hit It's gonna be a I think a very special night on November 11th when we get to view that and to continue the dialogue on that and as we wrap this up today One more from James clear.
• 41:03
  He wrote that when you're younger, it's easy to underestimate how fleeting the days can be.
• 41:08
  Each choice matters.
• 41:09
  Each day matters.
• 41:10
  But when you're older, it's easy to underestimate how much opportunity you still have.
• 41:17
  Don't talk yourself out of it.
• 41:19
  It's never too late to start.
• 41:23
  Yeah, in response.
• 41:25
  Um, great quote.
• 41:27
  I think it's important for each of us to reflect from time to time on what's truly important to us in the various roles, uh, that we, that we fill.
• 41:37
  Uh, professionally, uh, in our family roles, whether it's husband or father, and in, in our hobbies and, and in our networks.
• 41:48
  Uh, and, and with those lenses, think about what's important to us.
• 41:53
  When opportunities present themselves, ask ourselves, is this in alignment with those things that I've identified?
• 42:02
  Or is it noise and this, this is a a little more serious, but I think it puts it into context.
• 42:12
  If we found ourselves on our last day and we're reflecting on the opportunities we did or didn't take.
• 42:21
  Would we find ourselves regretting it?
• 42:24
  And if, if there was an opportunity that you think you would regret that you didn't go after, I would challenge you to start making actual steps towards achieving that.
• 42:34
  And the reason why this whole conversation today is so important in my mind is a lot of these aspirations can be overwhelming, sometimes impossible to achieve by ourselves.
• 42:48
  Thank you very much.
• 42:49
  And you would be amazed, based on friendships, based on networks, if you just have the humility to reach out, how much more effective we can be helping each other than trying to tackle it alone.
• 43:03
  And that's really what unlocks our ability to have true success in this world, professionally or otherwise, is realizing that we need other people.
• 43:15
  We need each other.
• 43:16
  And being super purposeful and what we want to get out of this temporary thing we call life.
• 43:24
  Well said, my friend and brother.
• 43:26
  And I hope that if I ever appeared or sounded like I was on a soapbox today, that the goal of what I'm trying to convey is that I want to share this gift with others.
• 43:38
  What I feel in my heart.
• 43:41
  And in my mind with friends and brothers like you and many others is, is truly special.
• 43:46
  And I've made that realization, the older I get in, call me naive, call me whatever you will, but the relationship, the being there for one another and knowing no one is alone out there.
• 44:00
  And especially within our ranks of our Masonic friends and lodges and for in within that setting.
• 44:07
  Knowing what's going on in each other's lives, being curious about one another, pursuing and sowing those seeds of relationships is incredibly powerful, but it takes all of us to take that first step.
• 44:20
  A hundred percent.
• 44:21
  And we are very blessed to be given the choice of the path and journey we decide to take and to be given a palette of different perspectives, uh, with various perspectives and backgrounds.
• 44:35
  And.
• 44:36
  If we listen to those various perspectives, backgrounds, and fields of expertise, I can guarantee you that what we come up with is better than any of us could do alone.
• 44:50
  Brad Phelps, thank you for being my guest today on Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.
• 44:55
  I hope to see you soon and really appreciate your thoughts and perspective today.
• 45:00
  Thank you, Reid.
• 45:00
  I really had a great time and look forward to chatting again soon.