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043 - XII Of Disputation or Discussion · Discourses of Epictetus

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  Speaker 1: Section forty two of Discourses of Epictetus by Epictetus, translated
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  Speaker 1: by George Long. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain.
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  Speaker 1: Read by Christine Rucker, January fourth, twenty twenty two, Westford, Massachusetts,
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  Speaker 1: Book two, Chapter twelve of disputation or discussion. What things
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  Speaker 1: a man must learn in order to be able to
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  Speaker 1: apply the art of disputation has been accurately shown by
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  Speaker 1: our philosophers, the Stoics. But with respect to the proper
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  Speaker 1: use of things, we are entirely without practice. Only give
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  Speaker 1: to any of us whom you please, an illiterate man
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  Speaker 1: to discuss with, and he cannot discover how to deal
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  Speaker 1: with the man. But when he has moved the man
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  Speaker 1: a little, if he answers beside the purpose, he does
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  Speaker 1: not know how to treat him. But he then either
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  Speaker 1: abuses or ridicules him, and says he is an illiterate man.
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  Speaker 1: It is not possible to do anything with him. Now,
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  Speaker 1: a guide, when he has found a man out of
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  Speaker 1: the road, leads him into the right way, He does
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  Speaker 1: not ridicule or abuse him, and then leave him. Do
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  Speaker 1: you also show the illiterate man the truth, and you
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  Speaker 1: will see that he follows. But so long as you
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  Speaker 1: do not show him the truth, do not ridicule him,
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  Speaker 1: but rather feel your own incapacity. How then did Socrates act.
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  Speaker 1: He used to compel his adversary in disputation to bear
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  Speaker 1: testimony to him, and he wanted no other witness. Therefore
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  Speaker 1: he could say, I care not for other witnesses, but
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  Speaker 1: I am always satisfied with the evidence testimony of my adversary.
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  Speaker 1: And I do not ask the opinions of others, but
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  Speaker 1: only the opinion of him who is disputing with me.
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  Speaker 1: For he used to make the conclusions drawn from natural
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  Speaker 1: notions so plain that every man saw the contradiction if
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  Speaker 1: it existed, and withdrew from it. Thus does the envious
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  Speaker 1: man rejoice by no means, but he is rather pained. Well,
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  Speaker 1: do you think that envy is pain over evils? And
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  Speaker 1: what envy is there of evils? Therefore he made his
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  Speaker 1: adversary say that envy is pain over good things? Well,
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  Speaker 1: then would any man envy those who are nothing to
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  Speaker 1: him by no means? Thus, having completed the notion and
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  Speaker 1: distinctly fixed it, he would go away without saying to
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  Speaker 1: his adversary defined to me envy. And if the adversary
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  Speaker 1: had defined envy. He did not say, you have defined
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  Speaker 1: it badly, for the terms of the definition do not
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  Speaker 1: correspond to the thing defined. These are technical terms, and
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  Speaker 1: for this reason disagreeable and hardly intelligible to illiterate men.
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  Speaker 1: Which terms we philosophers cannot lay aside. But that the
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  Speaker 1: illiterate man himself, who follows the appearances presented to him,
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  Speaker 1: should be able to concede anything or reject it, we
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  Speaker 1: can never, by the use of these terms, move him
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  Speaker 1: to do accordingly, Being conscious of our own inability, we
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  Speaker 1: do not attempt the thing. At least such of us
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  Speaker 1: as have any caution do not. But the greater part
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  Speaker 1: and the rash, when they enter into such disputations, confuse themselves,
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  Speaker 1: and confuse others, and finally, abusing their adversaries, and abused
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  Speaker 1: by them, they walk away. Now this was the first
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  Speaker 1: and chief peculiarity of Socrates. Never to be irritated in argument,
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  Speaker 1: never to utter anything abusive, anything insulting, but to bear
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  Speaker 1: with abusive persons, and to put an end to the quarrel.
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  Speaker 1: If you would know what great power he had in
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  Speaker 1: this way, read the Symposium of Xenophon, and you will
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  Speaker 1: see how many quarrels he put an end to, hence
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  Speaker 1: with good reason. In the poets also this power is
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  Speaker 1: most highly praised. Quote quickly with the skill he settles
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  Speaker 1: great disputes end quote Hesiod Theogony v. Eighty seven. Well,
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  Speaker 1: then the matter is not now very safe, and particularly
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  Speaker 1: at Rome. For he who attempts to do it must
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  Speaker 1: not do it in a corner, you may be sure,
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  Speaker 1: but must go to a man of consular rank, if
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  Speaker 1: it so happened, or to a rich man, and ask him.
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  Speaker 1: Can you tell me, sir, to whose care you have
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  Speaker 1: entrusted your horses? I can tell you. Have you entrusted
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  Speaker 1: them to any person indifferently? And to one who has
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  Speaker 1: no experience of horses by no means? Well, then can
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  Speaker 1: you tell me to whom you entrust your gold or
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  Speaker 1: silver things, or your vestments. I don't entrust even these
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  Speaker 1: to anyone indifferently. Well, your own body, have you already
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  Speaker 1: considered about entrusting the care of it to any person?
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  Speaker 1: Certainly to a man of experience, I suppose, and to
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  Speaker 1: one acquainted with the elliptic or with the healing arts?
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  Speaker 1: Without doubt? Are these the best things that you have?
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  Speaker 1: Or do you also possess something else which is better
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  Speaker 1: than all these. What kind of a thing do you
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  Speaker 1: mean that I mean, which makes use of these things
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  Speaker 1: and tests each of them and deliberates. Is it the
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  Speaker 1: soul that you mean? You think right? For it is
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  Speaker 1: the soul that I mean. In truth, I do think
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  Speaker 1: that the soul is a much better thing than all
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  Speaker 1: the other things which I possess. Can you then show
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  Speaker 1: us in what way you have taken care of the soul?
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  Speaker 1: For it is not likely that you, who are so
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  Speaker 1: wise a man and have a reputation in the city,
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  Speaker 1: inconsiderately and carelessly, allow the most valuable thing that you
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  Speaker 1: possess to be neglected and to perish. Certainly not. But
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  Speaker 1: have you taken care of the soul yourself? And have
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  Speaker 1: you learned from another to do this? Or have you
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  Speaker 1: discovered the means yourself? Here comes the danger that in
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  Speaker 1: the first place, he may say, what is this to you,
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  Speaker 1: my good man? Who are you? Next? If you persist
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  Speaker 1: in troubling him, there is danger that he may raise
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  Speaker 1: his hands and give you blows. I was once myself
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  Speaker 1: also an admirer of this mode of instruction, until I
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  Speaker 1: fell into these dangers. End of Book two, Chapter twelve,