Latest / Identity at the Center / #188 - Oktane 22 - Closing Oktane with Eric Anderson

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#188 - Oktane 22 - Closing Oktane with Eric Anderson · Identity at the Center

• 0:09
  You're listening to the identity at the center podcast.
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  This is a show that talks about identity and access management
• 0:15
  and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
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  started. Welcome to the identity of the
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  center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
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  Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Not so bad yourself.
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  Good. I'm a little bit happy and a
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  little bit sad. I'm sad because this the end of
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  the conference and I've had a fantastic time here, got to see
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  a lot of old friends and record a lot of great podcast.
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  Make new friends. I'm kind of happy because this
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  podcast is with a one of those old friends Eric and I won't
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  steal your thunder. I know recipient about.
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  Yeah. Let's introduce some Eric
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  Anderson director Enterprise security at Adobe.
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  Welcome back. Eric.
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  Well thanks for having me. It's fun to see you guys.
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  It's been a while. Last time you were with us was
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  episode 91 way back. Mather. 2021 we are now an
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  episode. This will be 188 and for the
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  record is November 10th 2022. So a little bit almost a year
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  and a half you know, kind of rough.
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  Huh. But we actually saw each other
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  not too long ago. I was at the Afeni cake.
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  I think Kate in Seattle. Yeah.
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  Randy. Which was like, Hey, I know that
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  guy. Yeah, that's the guy that got me
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  turned on to the struts and I haven't let him go down ever
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  since and we're going to get into that.
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  But yes, we are at the octane conference, it is the last day,
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  literally the last hours, it wouldn't surprise me that this
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  white room that OCTA has generously donated to us to have
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  a space, to record in starts, crumbling around us, as they are
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  kind of breaking things down, so we'll try to, we'll try to keep
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  it to a dull Roar in here. So definitely thanks to OCTA for
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  supporting us, you know, all week.
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  Against even strong MVP, totally went to at bat for us and kind
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  of helped us you know get a whole bunch of great guests.
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  So this will be the last in the series of episodes that
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  hopefully, people have checked out.
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  We had you hanging out Pace this morning, that recorded.
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  It went live probably a couple days ago but it's time you hear
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  this as well as a shiv ramji had Alvina.
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  Aunt are just a ton of good people from the octave side that
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  wouldn't have been on if we didn't have people like Steven
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  advocating for a. So again thank you very much
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  Steven. And thanks to our SM for
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  sponsoring Us by getting us out here.
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  And paying for the travel. So thank you very much for that.
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  Let's talk about Octane and I think Eric the way that I want I
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  want to start is let's just catch up.
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  It's been a year and a half I guess we're not going to have.
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  You go back to your whole identity background, we cover
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  that go back and listen episode 91.
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  But what's new like what's changed in the last year?
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  Or so I guess professionally or in your world of identity that
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  you've been thinking about like the the biggest change or I
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  guess I wouldn't use the use the word change.
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  I'd say it's more of a new emphasis placed on devices.
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  You know, we've spent the last four years rolling out zero
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  trust, really focusing on securing identities, and we've
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  done some device components of it, but now it's really we're
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  seeing the technology grow and making it easier to scale out.
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  And so we spent the last year, really emphasizing managed
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  equipment and making sure all employees and nobody's enrolled
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  in managed devices. So we can use that as a platform
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  and then the other Focus we had just started the journey.
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  When we met last time, I've really vendor security.
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  I'm looking at how do we get the same visibility and the security
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  and, and the signals from from a vendor own device and vendor
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  accounts. And so, we've really dialed that
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  up and and and been able to focus on that over the lab.
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  Since we last met you guys have been working on some really cool
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  stuff. Obviously we're here at the OCTA
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  conference. I could use a compass I guess so
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  explain just a little bit. How are using octane that in
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  this picture are using the workforce identity Cloud?
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  The customer identity cloud or a little bit of both.
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  For the Enterprise, we're using the workforce identity Cloud.
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  We've been one of the early customers of okhta.
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  They are part of our journey through zero trust we've got
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  several vendors and when we first started down the zero
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  trust Journey. One of our one of our priorities
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  was, how do we leverage existing Investments?
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  Because at the time there and there's I would argue the
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  probably still isn't but time there was no single vendor, that
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  could deliver zero trust. He had to kind of find best of
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  breeds and and Adobe has always been a best of breed type of
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  type of company. So we took our investments in
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  Octa, and at the time, some VMware products, and digits,
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  certain some of our vendors and we stitch those together to
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  deliver our version one of us, Trust and one of the things we
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  are pretty proud of is some of the partnership's that OCTA has
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  with VMware, was us coming to both of them as existing
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  customers saying, hey you guys should make this stuff work with
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  that stuff and we help facilitated that and they helped
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  us get our zero. Trust off the ground by building
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  a partnership with VMware, an OCTA, they gave us our first
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  iteration of password length, n equation using certificates is
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  that really helped? Could get that off the ground
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  and 2018, it's not something. A lot of companies can do its
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  coffin. Say, Hey, you know,
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  billion-dollar company we'd like you to work better with this
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  other, you know? I'm not sure if they're billion
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  dollar, but I'm yeah, right there pretty big, is, I think
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  that's probably a benefit of having come from Adobe, right?
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  Is to say, hey, here is something.
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  And not only in the, in the, from a use case for such a, it's
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  a problem to solve. Yeah.
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  So being sort of a will to leverage sort of your weight of
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  who you are and your brand and your own power to kind of
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  influence the direction a little bit of product to some degree.
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  I think that's a, I think it's a cool.
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  Yeah, I would say it I don't know if I would say it Dobies
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  thrown around their way. We're creative companies like
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  hey let's find a creative solution where software
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  Engineers we want to bring people together.
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  And, you know, a lot of our brand is around, you know,
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  customer experience and the like and so that it was a great
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  opportunity to kind of just say, hey, we've got, we're all
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  Partners together and let's figure out how can we make this
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  experience better and get some good security out of it.
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  And so it was, it's been pretty cool to see how it of how its
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  Moved Hickok to rolled out of a lot of new functionality or some
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  of the functionality was rolled out before.
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  But you know, you're seeing vast improvements in usually
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  lifecycle management the workflow capability, of course,
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  you know, all the stuff on the authentication side.
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  Was there anything that jumped out to you that you think like,
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  oh, okay, I definitely could see using that leveraging that at a
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  Dobby I think. If there was any one thing, I
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  think the part I'm more excited about is seeing companies like
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  OCTA and allotted as they're rising up and recognizing the
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  importance of things like identity, governance and
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  privileged identity, vaulting, and the things that, you know,
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  there's there's lots of other companies that were all
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  customers of and we use that have delivered that at the
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  Enterprise scale for years. What I think is kind of kind of
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  neat is you've got other companies like OCTA coming in
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  and talking about how do we deliver this may?
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  Even for small business, you know, and then being able to
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  partner with with these larger vendors that have an established
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  business. How do they complement each
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  other? So how could you take some of
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  the new technologies that were announced this week and feed
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  those into our established Enterprise tools and to enhance
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  those and make those Investments rise Wells?
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  It steers back to the partnership PS, you know, how
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  could we get, you know, ARCA partnering with with some of the
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  other industry leaders in this space and and provide a better
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  solution? And I think there's always been
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  sort of this ecosystem, sort of like friendly or maybe even
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  Frenemy Partners right where it's like yeah there's cyber-ark
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  and they have an alliance with XYZ companies and then you've
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  got sale point. For example, in the IGA space,
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  they have the same type of things and you start going to
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  end up with sort of like these mix and match kind of components
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  from an interoperability standpoint.
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  It's great. I mean, I think you know, having
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  a platform that allows you to develop Integrations on Open
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  Standards, Whatever May certainly makes the platform
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  stronger, right? That's part of the draw of
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  something, like an OCTA where you've got.
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  I think this is something like 7,000 different connectors,
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  right? Like they probably wrote maybe
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  half of those, right? The others might have been
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  crowd-sourced or Mobi whirs result of a specific client
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  saying. Hey, we need actually need a
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  connector for this specific application and then you don't
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  write that in a one-off, you just add that to your portfolio
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  of, hey, we have now. 7001 7002 right.
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  Whoever may be and having that ecosystem, It's a very
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  important. You've got this platform.
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  Now, from a identity provider perspective, where thank you,
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  starting to see some of the vendors in this space, really is
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  trying to trying to establish sort of.
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  We are the platform for identity and I think one of the things we
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  heard this week from the OCTA side is, is their tagline is
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  like the vendor neutral platform for identity and identity
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  belongs to you another tag lines.
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  Get that effort for October. But, you know, from a from your
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  perspective where use it, like how do you see sort of like this
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  identity provider? Worm working out in the real
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  world like is this something that you build upon or do you
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  think that there is still space for other identity providers to
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  sort of act? As you know plugins maybe into
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  your main identity provider. Yeah, I'm a big believer and and
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  centrally managing a lot of these you know with identity
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  being at the center of it. And so I like the idea of a The
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  centralized Center but then you have to your point plugins or
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  auxiliary tools. I mean, there's always going to
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  be smaller little pockets. Where maybe you, you need some
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  capabilities, you know, you think it, you know, we talked a
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  little bit about privilege, you know, there's you know, octaves
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  not there yet. There's some vendors that are
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  well established in that space. And you've got developer needs
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  about being able to automate and access and Cloud accounts.
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  You know, I saw some sessions with some some of the other
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  vendors here talking about, you know, the cloud identities.
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  How you separate those and you've got other other things
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  that I'm seeing emergent guest accounts, you know, you think
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  about tools like slack and office and Microsoft.
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  There's a whole Fleet of guest accounts that kind of fall out
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  of the scope of the central identity manager.
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  But you need visibility and being able to understand how
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  that works. So I see this as an ecosystem
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  for sure. It's nice to have an anchor,
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  it's almost like a mall. You think, you know, you go to
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  the mall and you've got the anchor stores and then all these
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  other stores that sell similar or complementary products.
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  You do want the anchors in place to help kind of Drive the
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  direction but then build in the specialty pieces that really
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  kind of helped Elevate the game so to speak.
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  Who's going to be the Sears or the JCPenney?
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  Yeah, that's right. Right.
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  Gonna have the Nordstrom in the Bloomingdale's and some of those
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  too but there's always you kind of need the variety.
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  Right? How about what's missing from
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  the identity today from a technology standpoint?
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  I feel like we've got sort of this Trinity of products that
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  are in the act. SS management space that do
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  authentication and maybe just some degree, some level of
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  authorization, but it's not really a kind of their focus.
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  Then you've got the identity governance side of things,
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  right, doing sort of, more of the lifecycle management, audit
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  reporting exit certifications, right roles may be, that kind of
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  thing, and they've got privileged access management
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  which could be on-prem privileged access server access
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  or maybe it's Cloud privileged access management is kind of a
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  newer field of keen Cloud infrastructure entitlements
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  management. What are we missing from a
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  technology standpoint to sort of complete the puzzle?
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  Is there anything missing or have we do we have such a magic
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  question. I don't know if we have any.
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  I don't think there's a lack of technology.
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  I think it's really a lack of understanding how to tie them
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  together and have them speak to each other.
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  I mean, I can go back to when we first met.
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  It was through the idea say and you think about all those
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  vendors, you know, octus sale Point cyber-ark, VMware.
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  All these companies are part of that alliance with the idea.
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  Being as how do we kind of build this framework.
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  So we can all talk together. And share information and you
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  know because everybody's going to be better and worse at some
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  things. And so how do we make it?
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  An open shareable transparent space where we're breaking down
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  walled Gardens. So I think if anything is
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  lacking, its people are still building siloed Walled Garden
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  Products that make it really difficult to get information out
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  of it. There seems to be not saying
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  it's a new trend, but it's really like, hey, we want you to
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  use all our stuff, and it's like, that's great.
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  But until it's exactly what I need and works exactly how I
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  want it. I need the flexibility to pick
• 13:05
  the best of breed at the time and just continuing that type of
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  want to talk about pastoralists. There were probably four or five
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  themes in this conference. The last one was pastoralists
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  you were at the authenticate show as we're Jeff and I
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  obviously Fidos all about password list I guess.
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  My question is look, you've made these great investments in MFA
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  over the years. Do you see Pastor Lewis as an
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  evolution of that stream or you see it as revolutionary?
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  I think it's more evolutionary. I think there's certain Pockets
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  where it can be revolutionary. I think in the end, like in the
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  customer experience space you know if I'm going to shopping on
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  websites, I mean little things like Apple pay recently, you
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  know, being able to use that and have that security.
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  I love that when I'm personally shopping.
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  It's I feel comfortable and I like and then pass wordless.
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  You know, I keep eyes after the authenticated show.
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  I think I saw one might have been PayPal or somebody to talk.
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  They're going to do passkey. I keep going up every day
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  looking to see when it kind of set up my pass key for PayPal.
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  And so I'm all in on that from a personal use from an Enterprise
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  business. You so I think it's evolutionary
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  Because unless you're a brand new startup, that doesn't have
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  any legs. Agassi, you're going to have
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  passwords somewhere in your system.
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  So it's you can say, you're going to be past wordless, you
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  can have systems, we're going to be password list, but somewhere
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  along the way, you're going to hit where you're going to need a
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  password to do something. So I like the idea of obscuring
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  it making it something that maybe the user doesn't need to
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  enter. But I think the other the other
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  fear I have in some ways is as passwords become less, and less
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  upfront. They're going to become the
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  neglected. Child that's sitting back and
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  people are going to forget it's there and then that becomes
• 15:03
  maybe a point of entry or a security risk.
• 15:05
  Sydney's to be kind of basically answer.
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  Remember exactly where I was because I think if you're doing
• 15:10
  Biometrics right, what value does the password add and you
• 15:14
  kind of stick it as like plan C then it becomes the unhappy path
• 15:22
  which we know is always the weak point.
• 15:25
  He wants an occasion chain and that's what the heck is pick on.
• 15:28
  Yep, so if you get to 100% Biometrics and they're good
• 15:33
  enough fissionable, man, I think that's that's where it is.
• 15:38
  It could be revolutionary in terms of wealth.
• 15:41
  I think the user experience is much better, right?
• 15:44
  Yeah. I mean you know how annoying is
• 15:46
  that have like, you have everything.
• 15:48
  You've got the biometric sounds like now I have to remember this
• 15:51
  password and some organizations are still requiring Pastor
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  changes and how Aging. Yeah.
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  I feel like I came away from the conference season in 2022
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  saying. Alright, it's here, the password
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  was whether you call it Revolution, Evolution, whatever
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  it's here, it's here. And now and you know of
• 16:17
  authenticating, we heard a lot of customers talking about it
• 16:20
  that they're doing it. As you can see, it's very real
• 16:23
  baked into the octave product. Plus there's vendors on top of a
• 16:27
  bitch who attend beyond the IDP realm all the way down to the
• 16:32
  desktop being, you know, biometric base single sign-on
• 16:37
  password list. So yeah, that was my takeaway.
• 16:41
  Yeah, I agree. I think it's.
• 16:42
  I think 2023 is the year while we'll see more and more of the
• 16:46
  password list. The part I'm excited.
• 16:48
  The part I'm really anxious to see how it plays out is the true
• 16:51
  password list. You know, we saw it a fennec,
• 16:53
  ate a couple of vendors saying, yeah, they're literally no
• 16:56
  passwords in the system. So there's nothing to go.
• 16:58
  Outside of your Fido or a biometric, but then I did see
• 17:03
  someone there to that, they have the great graphic.
• 17:06
  And the thing we've all talked to me was well, you know,
• 17:07
  Biometrics are great. Until you know, they, you see it
• 17:11
  on the James Bond movies. I let's just cut off the hand
• 17:13
  and put that on the thing and we've got the Biometrics, you
• 17:15
  know, if you there only how do you fix a compromise biometric,
• 17:21
  you know, which is always, you know, one of the challenges,
• 17:23
  just get a little thumb, it's fine.
• 17:24
  I don't, you just have a backup, you do a 3D print out of your
• 17:28
  thumb and you got A backup. It's all fun and games until
• 17:30
  someone loses a hand and that other person suggested The
• 17:33
  Avengers that we saw that in the Avengers here by really another,
• 17:35
  the I pray. So I think Biometrics are really
• 17:38
  cool place to go but it's also how do you have the back up and
• 17:42
  being able to, you know, the equivalent of the password reset
• 17:47
  in the password list biometric world?
• 17:49
  What does that look like? And how is that going to evolve?
• 17:52
  If you like this is, I'm with you guys on the password will
• 17:54
  stuff. The part that concerns me is the
• 17:58
  Specificity when it comes to language, there are a lot of
• 18:02
  vendors and approaches for password, listen, I'm doing in
• 18:06
  quotes that you can't see that. There is still a password and
• 18:09
  play and that was immediately. I was thinking about you
• 18:11
  mentioned it. There are now some solutions
• 18:14
  that literally do not have a password.
• 18:15
  So, you know, you go to like, oh, I'm gonna dump the database
• 18:18
  and get all the passwords and now there's nothing there,
• 18:21
  right? Or they're no good for anything,
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  right? I think that is nirvana to get
• 18:25
  to what concerns me though is messaging around.
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  Oh, we're going past fertilis, but they're still a password
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  somewhere behind the scenes and it's like, obfuscated or it's
• 18:35
  the unhappy path, or whatever it may be, which I think is good,
• 18:38
  right? It's still progress.
• 18:40
  It's still moving things forward.
• 18:41
  I'll be really excited. When there's, you know, you go
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  to, you go to look at an authentication table or
• 18:46
  database, whatever it is, and there's nothing there.
• 18:48
  Or it's like, you know, just a placeholder value.
• 18:50
  That doesn't mean anything. I think that will be really the
• 18:53
  sea change moment. And who knows at that point?
• 18:55
  Maybe it is. Hey, we've 3D printed a new
• 18:57
  thumb for some yeah. Exactly.
• 18:59
  And when you get to the point where you, you know, for me,
• 19:01
  there's anything in between step there or even an evolution past
• 19:04
  that where you start thinking about it, ephemeral accounts as
• 19:07
  I hey, the can only exist in the the login, whatever it looks
• 19:10
  like only exists just in time for this single purpose.
• 19:14
  So it's you know, even if it is password list or Biometrics,
• 19:18
  it's gone before it can be used any other way and you got a
• 19:21
  couple other controls that control.
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  When does that ephemeral begin? Exactly.
• 19:25
  This concept of zero standing privileges for example, right?
• 19:28
  Yes You're talking about, you know, things to look for the
• 19:30
  future. It's like, you know, imagine a
• 19:31
  password Louis world, it's ephemeral that then all of a
• 19:34
  sudden becomes something that that makes the Enterprise
• 19:37
  revolutionary that that point in time and not just evolutionary.
• 19:40
  Sorry. So now, you've got this session
• 19:43
  length that we're back to you again.
• 19:45
  As I guess I feel her go a little bit cyclicals.
• 19:47
  Like, all right, well we remove the password.
• 19:48
  Now we have like this no password but it's only good for
• 19:50
  a certain amount of time. Yeah.
• 19:52
  And now we're back to okay. Well, how long is that session?
• 19:54
  Good for right? Exactly.
• 19:55
  How do I steal? Yeah, that well, imagine if you
• 19:58
  could base Add on like user Behavior.
• 20:01
  Analytic squared, understands, you know, how what you're typing
• 20:04
  patterns are or, were there or how how you work efficiently and
• 20:08
  it could intelligent go? Hey, Will I know if it's Jim
• 20:10
  logging and he's going to need 10 minutes to do this.
• 20:14
  Jeff may need 15 minutes and so it can kind of add intelligence
• 20:17
  to kind of making a customized ephemeral.
• 20:20
  I'm thinking about continuous authentication.
• 20:23
  Yeah, Point especially using something like a camera you're
• 20:27
  sitting there on the computer. Peter maybe you can dial down
• 20:31
  the how accurate had attached to be because they give out the
• 20:36
  windows. Hello scenario, where it's
• 20:38
  hitting you with the camera. You actually have to eyeball
• 20:41
  into the camera for it to authenticate you.
• 20:45
  I wonder if there's some lower level is like oh Jim still
• 20:48
  there. It's not looking but we can
• 20:50
  recognize this face without am looking at the car.
• 20:53
  Oh yeah that's interesting. Yeah, that Windows.
• 20:55
  Hello is a little bit interesting because I have it on
• 20:58
  my computer. And if you have it set up
• 21:00
  through Windows, you do have to stare at the camera.
• 21:03
  How are you supposed to click? OK, if you can't.
• 21:05
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 21:06
  The usability is a little bit F. I get the concept it works.
• 21:12
  But I, you know, I mommy times. I'm like, I'm looking at my
• 21:14
  gotta hit the o.k. button. I'm like trying to that.
• 21:16
  Move my head or my eyes? Yeah, kind of hit over
• 21:18
  peripheral vision. I think there's still some work.
• 21:20
  We've done. There's some user experience
• 21:22
  issues that need to be resolved for that kind of stuff plus the
• 21:24
  Privacy side to, right. I think there is a concern of
• 21:26
  like well this camera is always on, you know.
• 21:28
  Know, what else is a collecting and where is that data going?
• 21:31
  And people naturally, well, you know, some will trust it some
• 21:35
  won't and they'll be a whole bunch of people who aren't sure
• 21:37
  until, yeah, something else happens.
• 21:39
  I think of you, there's a lot of that car cameras now, in the
• 21:41
  cabin to detect, how sleepy you are right.
• 21:46
  You know, maybe you're wearing sunglasses, or maybe?
• 21:48
  I don't know something happened. You know.
• 21:49
  And you aren't sleepy but it's detecting.
• 21:52
  It's a kind of a false positive. Like, I think it's an
• 21:54
  interesting concept. Yeah, I agree.
• 21:56
  Let's see how it works with The Cars.
• 21:57
  First. And see how that works out,
• 21:59
  like, pull it forward. But yeah, continuous medication
• 22:02
  will be interesting. You mentioned the keystroke,
• 22:03
  Dynamics, typing, Cadence, right.
• 22:05
  That's like that. I find that interesting because
• 22:07
  people do have such different, you know, patterns of typing and
• 22:11
  certainly people who learned, how to type, and maybe they
• 22:13
  learn how to type on a typewriter like a literally
• 22:16
  typewriter, or maybe it's a keyboard, or maybe they never
• 22:19
  learn type in. They kind of hunt and Peck
• 22:20
  around. It is interesting that some be
• 22:23
  able to see some of those Technologies over the years.
• 22:24
  And, you know, it was interesting.
• 22:26
  Then I can only imagine that it's gotten Better.
• 22:29
  Yeah but it does require you know, some agent to sit on it
• 22:34
  and the device to then say okay well this is how you type on
• 22:38
  your laptop. How do you type on your on your
• 22:41
  phone? What if it's a full keyboard
• 22:43
  versus a smaller keyboard ever change?
• 22:45
  Yeah. All that stuff, I think
• 22:47
  introduces a lot of variance and I think trying to simplify it
• 22:50
  would make a lot of sense and as we're moving more towards the
• 22:52
  voice to you know, and interact different kinds of interfaces,
• 22:56
  you know, how do you evolve that?
• 22:57
  But I mean it's all Olds profile of patterns and behaviors that.
• 23:02
  Maybe it can make Intelligent Decisions on?
• 23:04
  Yeah. Well, they turned the lights on
• 23:06
  which I think is down around those.
• 23:08
  Yeah. It's like the bar right?
• 23:10
  The lights go on. Are we supposed to get out?
• 23:12
  Let's go ahead and end on a lighter note.
• 23:14
  I'm not going to let you live it down because you and I want to
• 23:17
  thank you because I love the struts.
• 23:19
  Can't get enough of them. Give me something new to listen
• 23:21
  to what's a new music artist Band, Whatever doesn't have to
• 23:26
  be like new on the scene, right? Like somebody that you would
• 23:30
  like totally recommend people check out.
• 23:32
  I've been really digging lately. I learned about this band about
• 23:35
  five, six years ago on Jools Holland.
• 23:38
  You know, he has a show in the BBC, where they does a Friday
• 23:40
  night show and new bands. So this band they're out of
• 23:43
  Boston, they're called Lake Street, Dive and they're
• 23:48
  amazing. They they they put out their
• 23:49
  latest album last year. A couple of your songs actually
• 23:53
  made, right AirPlay. But they're older stuff is
• 23:56
  amazing. And Kind of have a jazzy tone.
• 23:59
  I think the lead singers, she and her brother, or somebody has
• 24:02
  like a side gig of a jazz band to but their music is
• 24:07
  spectacular, they're singing is great.
• 24:08
  So so Lake Street, Dive Lake Street Dive.
• 24:12
  Okay. I'll have to check that one.
• 24:13
  Completely the opposite of the strides to.
• 24:15
  So I've totally different and it's me.
• 24:17
  Hey you know what it take it. Variety is good Jim, how about
• 24:20
  yourself? Any new owner name one.
• 24:22
  Okay, I might be like, that's not new Dave, fendley not
• 24:26
  familiar. Okay, does a lot Lot of covers.
• 24:29
  I mean this guy has got an amazing boys, so I'm going to
• 24:33
  recommend this song stuck on you, which is Huey Lewis cover.
• 24:38
  Yes. And who is this?
• 24:41
  It's a cover. There's a guy on American Idol
• 24:46
  now. John, Legend, Lionel, Richie
• 24:50
  Lionel, Richie. So it's stuck on you by La
• 24:52
  verdad. Stuck on you.
• 24:53
  Yes. Mind-blowing little bit of
• 24:56
  trivia on that album, that album was was recorded at Bear Creek
• 25:00
  Studios and Woodinville Washington.
• 25:03
  Oh, really? Yep.
• 25:04
  So, of course, I couldn't you about.
• 25:05
  Dave finally, receipt would know that was 10 minutes from my
• 25:08
  house. Exactly.
• 25:11
  All right. So we have Lake Street, Dive got
• 25:13
  Dave, family, mine is a band called Royal Blood, they're all.
• 25:17
  I love those guys. So rock, band Duo, I love at,
• 25:21
  first of all, just Kick-Ass rock music but I like And that are
• 25:27
  interesting in that, this ban is why to people and start off as a
• 25:31
  drummer and a bassist. And like, yeah, well, it's
• 25:33
  Danger Mouse is in that van to write, stranger Maxwell, blood
• 25:36
  to. I'm not sure if that's the idea.
• 25:38
  I know the two guys are in IT bike, Courier and been Thatcher
• 25:43
  oakum, and one of them is just plays bass and he does
• 25:47
  incredible things to make the base, not sound like a bass
• 25:49
  sometimes and it reminds me of a band from my youth from Chicago
• 25:53
  area, Local H again, Two people who put out a ton of noise.
• 25:58
  I was fortunate to see them at the Vic in downtown Chicago.
• 26:01
  And I was blown away by. There's this guy with a guitar
• 26:04
  and there's this guy on drums and all of this is coming from
• 26:08
  just those two P pads. Awesome.
• 26:09
  Which is, yeah, it was, it was so great.
• 26:11
  So band called Royal Blood, definitely, you know, kind of
• 26:14
  they've had a few different hits that are out there.
• 26:15
  So maybe that's kind of superunknown but definitely,
• 26:18
  I'll give you one more bonus. Bonus, bonus, bonus II saw the
• 26:23
  they opened up for? The Black Keys that I saw bottom
• 26:28
  of there called The Velvet ears velvet, and it's a female
• 26:32
  singer, and she played guitar, and they have two drummers and
• 26:37
  they share, they share the kit together.
• 26:40
  They they share the kids, so they're both sitting at the same
• 26:43
  kit and they can spin over. And there's a little bit of
• 26:46
  keyboards and a little bit of a bass guitar.
• 26:48
  But for the most part, it's the two guys sitting at the same
• 26:51
  kit, just banging away, John Bonham Style, And the lead
• 26:55
  singers screaming on a guitar so it's a ton of noise but it's
• 26:59
  spectacular to watch. Okay.
• 27:01
  All right, we're going to go ahead and wrap it up there
• 27:03
  because there are literally getting like kicked out.
• 27:05
  Walls are starting to shake. Eric, thank you so much, joining
• 27:08
  us. Oh, thanks for having me.
• 27:09
  Yeah, thanks, yaxha team for bringing us out here as well as
• 27:11
  our SM. You can find us on the web
• 27:13
  identities. A center.com.
• 27:15
  We're on Twitter at IDC podcast. I feel like I'm racing a
• 27:17
  shutdown. Son for the walls fall down.
• 27:19
  Yeah, exactly. So with that we'll go ahead and
• 27:21
  leave it. Thanks everyone for listening
• 27:22
  and we'll talk with you all in the next one.
• 27:25
  One. Thanks for listening to the
• 27:30
  identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
• 27:33
  don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity
• 27:36
  at the center.com.