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Hell- why will it be FULL of good people? · Unashamed Table Talk

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you are at the lake and I'm super jealous, but I am so thankful because you being at the lake means I might get some fish.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: I finally got to make the fish that you make that you gave me a week or two ago.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my gosh, Denise, it was so good.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do y'all like fish?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because let me just tell you, I we love fish.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we used to have a place down the road from us uh called Ranch Brand Meats that had the best beef jerky and the best catfish.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: And they closed down, golly, what, probably two years ago, or maybe more than that now.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've not had someplace to get good fish.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so just for y'all to know, y'all all know Denise loves to fish, and I love to eat the fish.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I am begging her every time I'm around her, Denise, I need fish.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she used the so yeah, so we're um going to have I keep calling it a family reunion because we never get this much family together at one time, and at the same time, we've never had a family reunion, but uh all of Kenneth's sisters and everybody's coming out, and um, so it's gonna be a fun time.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um our niece, her husband, is wanting to fish.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: We brought them out here, it's probably been three or four years ago now, and uh it was just during a time where the fish were really, really biting, great big catfish, and we were just I mean, we literally had to put a great big cooler on our boat because they would they were so big they weren't fitting in our live well.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and we filled it with ice, and so we were out there, I mean, just just snagging them up.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we'd cast it out away a little bit, and boy, we were, I mean, so much fun.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so we invited them out, and they live about an hour and a half away from where we fish, and they came, went to fish with us, and uh we laughed because he they bought a fishing pole on the way here, which they didn't have to because we've got tons, but he shows up with this fishing pole, and it's it's long, but it's not that big, and you know, it comes from it come from Walmart, nothing wrong with Walmart, but it was like a cheaper uh cheaper um pole, you know.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And me and my husband, we looked at that pole and we said, Oh no, buddy, I'm sorry, but that is not gonna pull up the fish we're catching, you know.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he had this little bitty bait on there, and we said, What do you got there?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, I don't know.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just started going down the aisle and anything I saw pretty, I was just getting it, and I just put it on here, and so um shiny things, yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So he had so much fun fishing.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're their family, they now have two little kids now, and they're gonna be here this weekend, and that is all we've heard all week long is about catching some fish.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I've actually came out here a couple of days early so I can find the fish and kind of get some holes baited and get ready.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband, he said, Do we have any fish in the freezer at home?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because he's worried we're not gonna catch enough, you know.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm over here, oh, we're gonna catch enough fish.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, You better have a backup.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: You got some fish?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have some fish in the freezer?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Um, maybe maybe a bag.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't tell him, no, we got one bag, and that's just because BJ missed it when we were looking.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: She took it all.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but anyway, yeah, we're excited um to get out here and get to fishing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's this is my happy place.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love to be on the water.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was telling we were I was talking to Jay about it, and uh he said, I know you just die, you just itching to get out there.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I am.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I'll I told Denise I would love to go fishing with her.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I will I will fish all day long.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, I love being on the water too.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: I will I will catch the fish, I will clean the fish, I will eat the fish, I will do everything but put a worm on my hook.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Denise has to put a worm on my hook.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, You can clean a fish, but you won't touch a worm.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I just can't do the worm, it just freaks me out.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: I just I just can't do it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, every time my grandkids put that worm on there, you know, this dark stuff we always call it says the worms pooping, you know, it's putting it on there, and I always say, Well, you'd probably poop too if a if uh if you were getting put on a hook like that, you know.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as you're talking, it makes me think.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And this if y'all hear my dog, sorry, she just heard something go down the road and she's barking.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: But um, when when we have when we have plans, you know, like you're planning to catch all this fish, and you have your family coming, and you know, I hope I'm really gonna pray that y'all just catch an abundance of fish, but sometimes our plans just don't go as they're supposed to.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm living that this week, you know.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we had our daughter, we had a planned induction date, we had a planned move-in date, we're gonna do all the things, and it's gonna just work out just perfectly.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then baby girl Briar said, No, I'm gonna go ahead and come two weeks early and just messed up all the things.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not really.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just is precious and it's exciting, but you know, we try to plan out the details and do all the things, and I love to be in control.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I am such a control freak, and I love to be able to, I can I'm a spur of the moment, fly by to sit in my pants, kind of girl.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I love to just, you know, hey, let's go on a road trip, you know, whatever.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm down for the immediate, but I also like to be in control and to have a plan.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And when things don't go as planned, I'm just like, I get so irritable.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh earlier I was talking to Denise before we met and prayed, and she's like, You are just grumpy.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I could see it on her face as soon as I opened up my screen.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Oh, she's uh she's in one of them moods.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: You don't see it very often.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've only seen it once or twice in all this time we've been friends, so for the most part, you're pretty positive person, but um I don't stay grumpy for long either.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I get over my grumpiness, but I just there's there's just you know I like to be in control, and when I can't be in control, I don't like it.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you know I just told my daughter yesterday we were talking about a situation going on, and and I'm giving all these suggestions to her, and I stopped and I said, I'm just a person that wants to fix it.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I want to fix it, and you got that from me.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: We try to do everything we can to fix it and make it go the way we think it should go.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or and I said, But you know what?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the deal is that we just sometimes we just can't because we're just not in control of all things, and she was like, Right, you know, we just kind of sat there, but we both want to try to come up with a solution and fix it.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot of things in life we're not in control of.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, sometimes that's hard.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: But today I think we were wanting to talk about um we we were also having a discussion about there's a lot of good people in this world, but there's gonna be a lot of good people that's gonna be in hell because being good's not gonna get you to heaven, and so we were kind of wanting to um chase that rabbit for a little while today and just kind of discuss that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's hard to see someone that is a really good person.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I know someone personally um that is a super good person, a very funny person.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I mean, just a good, good person that would do just about anything for you, like literally.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: But yet they have said they're at peace with where they are when it comes to religion, and basically they don't want to have anything to do with the higher power that um, you know, they're fine with other people having those beliefs, and um, they love them where they are, and basically they just want everyone else to love them where they're at too, you know, which we do, but it's so sad to think of it's sad to think of anybody going to hell.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it's it's hurts when you know somebody, and I mean this isn't even somebody I'm super close to, but I know them through someone I'm super close to, but you know, just um you don't want to see a stranger go to hell, but someone that you know and you realize how good they are, and they're such sweet people, and thinking about where they're gonna be one day because they're not willing to surrender to the Lord.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's hard.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is hard.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and like we we get so caught up in good being good and and kindness, and and those are all important, but being good is not what saves us.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, what is the scripture?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have I can't, um I should look it up, but we're basically like our goodness is like filthy rags, basically, you know, and no matter how good I am, I am still in desperate need of a savior.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I think that for the most part, I'm a pretty decent human being, but even just an hour ago, I was grumbling and complaining, right?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's sin.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, sin overrules everything.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And when you don't have the peace and the knowledge and the security of your salvation, and that's just I don't know how people I don't know how I don't know how people are kind without Jesus.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: First off, I can't, I Jesus knew I needed him just to even be nice to people because I struggle.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I have Jesus, right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I I mean, like, we have some amazing friends, like we love these guys.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: You may have seen some pictures.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: I know you've heard me talk about Denise, but our friends that live in Austin, and these are like some of the most amazing human beings on this earth, they care about people they they love deep and big, but they have no relationship with the Lord, and no matter how good they are, they're not gonna be in heaven unless they surrender their lives to Jesus, and that is that just kind of sucks, really.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, like I mean, you think about it, and people will say, well, how could how could a whole how could a good God send good people to hell?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that first off, that statement bugs me because first off, God isn't sending anyone to hell, he didn't create hell for us, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's our denial of who he is and his death and resurrection is what sends us to hell.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: We send us to hell, he doesn't send us to hell, it's our choice, and that, but it's still a hard thing to wrap your mind around.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the truth is, is we know scripturally as he wants no one to perish, no, not one, right?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: But by our own choices, we can choose to deny him and spend eternity away from him in like a fire.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was looking up that verse, and I don't know if this is what you were thinking of or not.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's Isaiah 64:6.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: It says, We are all infected and impure with sin when we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags, like autumn leaves.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: We wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: The other one that pops into my mind when we were getting ready for this is Matthew 25, verse 11 and 12.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm reading it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is the NIV version, but it says, Later, the others also came.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Lord, Lord, they said, open the door for us.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: But he replied, Truly, I tell you, I don't know you.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And golly, can I just can't even imagine coming face to face with the Lord and hearing, you know, the depart from me, I never knew you.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's terrifying.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Terrifying.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's um hard.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually, you already kind of you already spoke on it, and I was sitting here thinking of how it is hard for those who don't know the Lord to understand why God would allow good people to go to hell.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because those when you know the Lord, like let's just think of some characteristics.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: If we were to describe the Lord, like I would have a list of all these good things, like he's loving, he's merciful, he's show grace.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, he has forgiven me, oh gosh, a multiple multitude of times, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he saved me from who I used to be.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's a provider, he's a healer.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many positive things, but at the same time, God is a just God and God is a jealous God.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just wondering, um what do you think?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you think people who don't know the Lord, they hear those of us who do know the Lord talking about Jesus, and we're always talking about the good, right?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: How good he is to us and how it how we receive freedom when we surrender to him and we accept him and all of these things.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you think it that's because we're listing all the good about, I mean, there's nothing bad to list.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's a perfect, he's perfect God.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: But why do you think it's so hard for people who don't know the Lord to understand that that even good people go to hell because they've not received like just that statement you said a while ago.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Why would he allow good people to go to hell?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: They've helped pay for things, they do things for people, they help charity organizations, you know, charitable organizations.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: They do all these things.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Why would they not deserve hell?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's the statement we hear.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: They don't deserve hell, they're good people.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that it's hard to comprehend because it it really becomes a prideful thing because it becomes about me and not about God, about what I can do, not about what he has done.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole the whole premise of salvation, right?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is it's not about us, it's all about him.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And without Jesus and what he did on the cross for us, I am nothing.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, truly, I mean, even in the goodness, there's still sin.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, again, like even like I'm telling you, I can't even make it out of bed hardly before I am sinful.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I hate that.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I hate that my flesh will take over.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I do.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can be judgy and prideful and I mean all the things like it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: I hate who my flesh makes me be sometimes, who I who I falter into because I don't want to be that person.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's it's different because I've been a Christian now for you know 20 plus years, 25 years, whatever.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't have all the same big sins.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a thief anymore.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't steal.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I used to be a thief.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'd steal, I mean, I go to Walmart and steal hamburger meat, you know, and because they should somehow Walmart owed me meat.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why they that's so dumb.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could excuse anything, I could justify my sin in any kind of way.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't do that anymore, you know.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I I'm just not that person.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't work in the sex industry anymore.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't sell my body to men.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not trying to like I don't do the big things, I don't cheat on my husband, I don't, I don't do those things anymore because of Jesus, but I still sin every day.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the the easier to hide sins, I guess, you know, and so it's easier to justify that that now I'm good, but really I'm just as awful.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the the closer I get to a holy God, the more those little things feel monumental and gross, you know.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's funny you say that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was just spoke about this Monday at Recovery Alive.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking about, we were talking about uh grace and the importance of grace and and how God shows us grace, you know, all day long and and all of that, and um and the the importance of us showing others grace because he's shown us so much grace, but yet we can have the hardest time showing grace to someone else.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to forgive somebody else, like their sin was worse.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, but when you start thinking about all the things God has forgiven you, you know, why wouldn't you show someone grace?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the closer you get to the Lord, the more you realize God has forgiven.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like you were just saying, like the closer you get to him, you you recognize more ugly in your life.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I see the ugly in my life, even though the ugly ain't as ugly as it used to be.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now I see all the ugly, the little bit, you know, all the things, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: When a thought comes into my head, I'm like, oh Lord, I know I ain't supposed to be thinking about that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Take that away, you know.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I was talking about um, I left out on my street the other day.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was driving down the road, and so, you know, it's just like a little oil top, oil top road, and we come out to um a big highway, and there's always traffic when you get out there, and so I come to the stop and I look, and there's not hardly any traffic.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's one car coming, but I wait on the one car before I pull out, and all of a sudden I hear somebody honk the horn.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, seriously.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I turn around, I look in my mirror, and I'm like, this ain't even anybody I know.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's no family members, like this is somebody who's ticked off because I ain't went.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Good grief, you know.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, the car went by and I as and I went to pull out.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when I did, the car behind me, I looked up in my mirror and I seen her throw her hands up in the air, like she was just had her hands in her air, and you could see the look on her face, like she was fussing because I didn't go quick enough.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, anybody who's ever rode with me knows.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I had a heavy feeling.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so no Billy dallying around with the wheel.
• 19:35
  unknown: That's right.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Throwing her hands up in there, she's throwing a fit.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I pull out, she comes around me, and as she starts to come up, I man, I punched it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I start going real fast, like you ain't gonna pass me.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so then here she goes, you know, you got two dang old women out here flying down the road like we're racing.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, and I thought to myself, I thought, this is so stupid, and I went to let off the gas, and she comes, I'm gonna say this on air, and I look right over at her and I throw my hands up in the air and I make this face like like you know, I just did it back to her.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Dakota was on the phone with me, my daughter.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so this girl, this woman, she flies by, you know, after I did this, and I told Dakota, I said, I am so stupid.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And she goes, What?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I sat here and just threw my hands up, made the same face back to her, and I said, I'm so stupid.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Man, what a great Christian influence I just was.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she started laughing, she goes, Yeah, but sometimes it just feels good, don't it?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And makes us feel better, don't it?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, and then I sit there and I was like, Oh, I'm so stupid.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got the phone and I'm like, Lord, I'm so sorry.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: That was so stupid of me.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: All of that was in a minute, you know, it was fast.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like just reacting from these emotions, and I was just thinking, there was a time I would never ever stop and be like, Lord, forgive me for that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is so stupid.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just a little thing, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, probably was probably there was a time when you wouldn't just throw your hands up and go nah, nah, nah.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: You probably would have been throwing up a finger.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I you are exactly right, you are right.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have done that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: You are better.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Grace has made you better.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing this is what I was sharing at Recovery Live is that you know what I have I didn't want to show her any grace, she could have had a horrible morning, you know.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and here's the deal I've been that woman, you know what I mean?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've been the one going, get out, come on.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: You've probably been in the car.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's like the closer we get to the Lord, the more we recognize our ugly.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're kind of getting off top topic a little bit, I think, but it don't matter.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: We don't ever stay on topic too much anyhow.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, just I mean, I think that I'm a good person.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm a good person.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm a good person with a lot of ugly in me.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't care how good anybody is, everybody's got ugly.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, it also doesn't matter how good we are.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: How good we are doesn't get us to heaven.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about what we do.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just said, it's not by my works.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: If it was by my works and I could work well enough to get to heaven, well, good, goodness.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: We wouldn't need Jesus.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a lot of denominations uh and religions other than just evangelical and evangelical denominations, even that are very works-based.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, first off, thank you, Lord, that our salvation is not a works-based thing because we would fall short.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's no way I can ever do enough to earn my salvation.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then on the flip side, that I'm so grateful that there's nothing that I can do.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we've talked about this a little bit before, uh, about you know, losing my salvation, because I I would have to, I would have to get saved and baptized 17 times a day, you know, or more, you know, and how good is God to give us that security for the believer and to know that I know that it is all about him.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and and there can be some stress in that, like because I need to live up to I need I work not because not to earn my salvation, but because I'm saved.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: I work because I want to serve him, I want to do good, I want to, I want to do these podcasts, I want to do the conferences, I want to do the retreats, I want to serve him, I want to lead people to him, I want to pray for people, I want to be in his word, I want to do all of those things not to earn my place with him, but because I have this place with him, and and truly what an honor it is to be able to be called a friend of God, right?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, that's a that's a really big deal.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we say these things and you know, these little Christian crease, you know, cliche statements, but do you really process what does it mean to be a friend of God and to be able to know that the veil was torn?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to go through uh a high priest or um what was was was that what they were called that went into the temple and had the bells and like we don't have to do that anymore.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: The temple's been torn.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have direct access 24-7 to a holy God who loves me, who gave his life for me, who literally paid all the debt for all of my sin.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's a that's a big deal.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and even if I was the only one, and you know, I mean, I've heard this before, but it but I I truly believe it's true, is that even if I was the only sinner, he would have died just for me.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like he loves me that much, and it's easy for me, like in throughout my life and through ministry, it was so easy, especially when I was in abortion recovery for so many years, is I could I could tell you, like, Jesus loves you so much, he has forgiven you, he wants you to live a life free of this burden and this shame and you know, no condemnation.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: You are free in Christ, he wants you to live a life free, but then to apply it to me was different.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like somehow, like I could, I could tell it to the audience, I could tell it to you know, 300 women in Africa, a thousand women in Africa, I could tell it to my Sunday school class, I could tell it to the one-on-one I'm counseling with, but then applying it to me was like, yeah, but I don't know, like it's I'm pretty rotten, you know.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And but the truth is, is that he loves me, and and he loves me because I am one created in his image, but like he loves me so much, Denise.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: He sent his one and only son to die for me.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's a big deal, and and he loves you that much too.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've not accepted his son, then I'm just gonna be sad for you because the truth is is that if you don't accept his son, I believe that scripture is very firm that you will spend eternity in a lake of fire, a place called hell, separated from God.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he doesn't want that for you, I don't want that for you.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm just gonna beg you to to get on your knees, fall on your face before a holy God, and and ask him to make his self known to you.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because first off, I I truly believe that he does not want anyone to perish.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to know who he is, I believe with all my heart he will make his self revealed to you.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so good.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um it makes me think of um when you were talking about wanting to be in control all the time.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: We always want to be in control.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think women especially, we want to fix things and be in control, you know.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's part of it, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Even that, like we want to be in control of our own salvation, you know, instead of surrendering to the Lord and saying, I can't do this on my own.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I need a helper, I need a king, I need a savior.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of that, we want to control it.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: We want to control our destination, we want to be good enough.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: We wanna we want it to be uh dependent upon us.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard for us to let go.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard for all humans to let go, I believe, not just women, but I just think a lot of women we're fixers.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: We we fix, you know, we work in our homes and their children or why I mean, no, not our wives, our husbands.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not kind of friend.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking of us being wives, you know, like we we have so many roles as women.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you're not married and you don't have children or whatever, just as women, I think God has just we have that within us that we want to try to fix and take care and nurture things.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um it also reminds me of just the our un the name of our ministry, you know, it started off as an unashamed women's conference, but then God just started putting it more and more on our hearts to go in different avenues.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, as we discussed it, it became just we decided it was unashamed um women's ministry, like a warrior women.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be warrior women ourselves for the gospel.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be unashamed of the gospel and spread the gospel any way we can.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to encourage other women to do the same.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things I love about the unashamed conference that we have coming up in Hot Springs is we have, I believe a lot of women that come to the conferences know the Lord already.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I also believe people come.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we know people come that haven't accepted um Christ as their savior because we've had some get saved, you know, at our conferences and and surrender.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the conference is so cool because it gives us an opportunity to come and have fun and get refreshed, but it rem God reminds us while while we're there of how good he really is and how much he really does love us.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just an opportunity for us to get in tune with the Holy Spirit and just kind of be reminded of what God's brought us from and how blessed we are, you know, as as humans that God saved us, that he died for us.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such a it's a time of rejuvenation, I guess, and to get fired up so that when we leave and we go back to our jobs and our families, we're we're on fire and we're we're unashamed.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're ready to share the gospel again.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love that about the conference.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I love, you know, I don't remember if I've shared this on here or not, but when I was nearly a new believer, I had a friend, um, Kim, that invited me to my very first women's conference.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it changed my life.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like it literally changed my life.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that this kind of thing even existed, and the worship was dynamic, and and I began to learn truly what it was like to be uh, you know, a Christian mom and a Christian wife, and like it just became my thing, and it it sincerely strengthened my walk with the Lord, it it discipled me, and and I'm I will be forever grateful for that.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And when you know, I mean, I don't want to do that same thing, but I want to encourage the women in this season.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in a season of, I mean, anywhere from really high school up, but if especially if you're in a season of parenthood and raising kids and t-ball and football and cheerleading and gymnastics and survival, all the things trying to work and be a wife or to be a single person or just trying to do life.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just want to encourage you to please come and join our conference because it it just can really refresh your soul, and it can, you know, not it's it's not because of me and Denise, because we are just a couple of buffoons that God is allowing us to do this, but God's word will not return void.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: We know that, and and the worship this year is gonna be phenomenal.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm so excited.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I love the unashamed conference, it is it just gives me energy.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: It it strengthens me, it encourages me.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: It is it is so much fun, and um, I want you ladies to enjoy it and and to and if it's not the unashamed conference, find another Bible teaching, worshipful conference.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Go and and get fed and unplug and turn your phone off for a couple of hours if you know if you can.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you can't do that even.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I get it, especially if you have young kids or a spouse or family member that's sick or you know, whatever.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's no there's no judgment, but if you can find a conference, um, selfishly I want you to come to ours because I think ours is the best, but find a good conference.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's amazing teachers of the word that would love to pour into you.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: And to get a community of believers, there's just something about a room of like 200, 300, 500 women worshiping the Lord together.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's just nothing like it.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've not experienced that, you're really missing out.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want to encourage you to come and um, you know, we also have our you know retreats that I love, those are a lot more intimate, and um, you can find all of our stuff on on our website, unashamedww.com.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: But um, please find a place to get plugged in.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't have a church home, you know, I I just really encourage you to start there.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we are called as believers.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I didn't understand what this meant, but I remember when I was in seminary, it was called corporate worship.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what does that mean?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and ultimately it is we are called as believers to come together to not forsake joining together.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because we were never meant to do this life alone.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we we are in we're we are called to serve and to to to do this thing called Christianity together.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: We just are, and I am a stronger, better person when I have a team of believers standing beside me, encouraging me, praying for me, and doing life with me.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, we all need that.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: So please, you know, don't miss the opportunity to to get plugged in.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to leave y'all with something as we get ready to to um finish up here.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, if you know the Lord and you know someone who does it, and they are in a position to where they're basically saying, look, hey, I'm good right where I'm at.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to challenge you to love them well, continue to pray for them, uh, but don't give up.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Keep talking about the Lord.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a way to do it um without trying to um just beat them over the head with the Bible type thing.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, yeah, and also don't talk to your unbelieving friends, you know, as my pastor will say, don't come home from church and have roasted pastor for lunch or roasted, you know, worship leader for lunch, because again, in our flesh, we're like, I hated that song, and uh, that was what was he preaching about, or you know, we just get in the flesh and don't do that, man.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, lift up and and you know, I mean, I don't want you ever not be real, but also especially to your friends that don't understand all of the things about church.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Church is full of a bunch of sinners, it's uh it's a you know, hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints, you know.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, let's use be careful with our words.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if you know someone who doesn't know the Lord, be careful with your words, encourage them, lift them up, keep praying for them.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, bring them to the unashamed conference.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: We would love for them to come.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a fun time and it's a good uh way to get someone there that doesn't know the Lord because it's a girl's weekend to spend in hot springs and have a lot of fun.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, uh Shelly Tomlinson will be there sharing the word.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: She is hilarious.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, she's my favorite.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love her.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love her too.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: She is so dang funny.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, oh my gosh, when she starts talking about the word, you can't help but listen.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so it'll be a great time.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: But also just want to challenge you, just in your day-to-day life, you know, to remember that we are here to be examples of Christ.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Keep praying for those folks that don't know the Lord.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't judge them, don't put them down, don't point the finger at them because they're not surrendering.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, remember there was a time we didn't surrender either.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we were all lost and we had to come to that point.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the other thing is is um, I just wanted to just um, BJ, I just thought maybe if we could just share one thing, uh, what would you tell the person who has a loved one, maybe a family member that they have been praying for for their salvation?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they are just at a at a time where they're just feel like they're they're getting depressed about it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're just feeling like it's hopeless.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just real quick, what is something you'd share for that that believer?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I that is such a hard thing because I've been in that situation and where literally I don't even have the words to know what to pray, where it's just that groaning and the crying out to the Lord.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, it I I don't I don't know, Denise, because I guess my my words of encouragement is just don't give up.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, God is faithful and God loves your loved one more than you.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you may be willing to die for your loved one, but he already has.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: He literally gave his life for your loved one.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so um don't give up, keep praying and try to trust the Lord.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: And and really, I just want to encourage you to love them where they're at.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was one by love.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I hated Christians, I thought all Christians were hypocrites and judgmental, and I had a lot of bad experiences with Christians.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: I used to be a waitress and you know, the waitress crowd on Sunday, everybody knows the stories.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, didn't I didn't want anything to do with Christians and had a real bad taste in my mouth, but love won me over.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and love literally will change someone's life.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: So love people well and and let God work through you.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right, it was Jesus's love on the cross that got us to where we are, right?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but thank y'all so much for tuning in with us.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: I hope y'all have a great week.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, be sure to go to our website, uh unashamedw.com.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Check us out on social media as well.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, hit that little follow button, like all the buttons, hit them.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: We need you to hit all the buttons.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like, share, subscribe.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: All please share.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Please share this message if it if you you know enjoyed it or and know someone that could get something out of it.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what you don't know, this is so silly.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna end it on a silly note.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Is for like the last five minutes, she's around outside now.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: But my dog has just been licking the bottom of my feet, and I can't do anything about it because I am trying to not make extra noises or make her bark or get rambunctious.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: So for about the last five minutes, my dog has literally just been licking my feet.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm gonna go shower because that's just gave me an idea for the next podcast.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: You've been listening to Table Talk with BJ Garrett and Denise Bowens.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: To support this ministry through prayer or giving, visit our website at unashamedww.com.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: May you be encouraged, rooted in truth, and unashamed.