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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 9 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing,
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Speaker 1: day nine.
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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us.
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Speaker 3: Nancy before your seventy age things.
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Speaker 4: After twenty eight hours, Mama.
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Speaker 5: If you're listening, we need you to come home.
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Speaker 6: Everyone is looking.
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Speaker 5: For your mommy. Whoever is out there holding our mother.
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Speaker 5: We want to hear from you. We want to talk
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Speaker 5: to you, and we are waiting for contact. The rational
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Speaker 5: note that was distributed to the media.
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Speaker 7: If a treasfer wasn't made, then I think a second
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Speaker 7: demand is for next money.
0:39
Speaker 1: The search of a septic tank late night photographs inside
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Speaker 1: the daughter's home. More item sees from the roof of
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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's home and a desperate plea from Savannah Guthrie.
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Speaker 6: Listen, we received your message and we under stand. We
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Speaker 6: beg you now to return our mother to us so
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Speaker 6: that we can celebrate with her. This is the only
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Speaker 6: way we will have peace. This is very valuable to
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Speaker 6: us and we will pay.
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Speaker 1: A lot is unfolding, but I want to analyze Savannah's
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Speaker 1: response with me an all star panel to make sense
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Speaker 1: of what we are learning right now, I want.
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Speaker 2: To first go out to Scott Iiker.
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Speaker 1: Joining us formerly with the FBI, he as a founding
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Speaker 1: member of CAST, the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, and so
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Speaker 1: much more question to you.
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Speaker 2: Unlike the last plea made by.
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Speaker 1: Savannah, with her brother and sister flanking her, she spoke
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Speaker 1: directly to her mother, she did not this time. But
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Speaker 1: I'm holding on to two of the words when I
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Speaker 1: first heard her say a earlier, a celebration. Let's hear
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Speaker 1: it one more time before I go to Scott Iker.
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Speaker 6: We received your message, and we understand.
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Speaker 8: We beg you.
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Speaker 6: Now to return our mother to us so that we
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Speaker 6: can celebrate with her. This is the only way we
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Speaker 6: will have peace. This is very valuable to us, and.
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Speaker 5: We will pay.
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Speaker 2: Trust me.
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Speaker 1: I know Savannah she can add loah, but I saw
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Speaker 1: her glance down about halfway through that very very brief message.
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Speaker 1: She was looking consulting Scott directly with her notes. Every
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Speaker 1: word has been chosen carefully, every word. In fact, I
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Speaker 1: noticed in the last address, her last plea, it didn't
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Speaker 1: sound like Savannah speaking as I know her and as
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Speaker 1: if we all have watched her, you know, on air
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Speaker 1: on the Today Show, because she is being directed by
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Speaker 1: the FEDS.
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Speaker 2: Her wording celebrate. When I heard that.
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Speaker 1: I nearly did a backflip because you think of celebration
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Speaker 1: of life, which means somebody's dead, their life is over.
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Speaker 1: But she said we can celebrate with her. I'm holding
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Speaker 1: onto the with.
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Speaker 2: Word in that message. What strikes you about this message?
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Speaker 9: Well, first of all, I know that the FBI and
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Speaker 9: the Behavioral Science Unit and all the investigators are helping
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Speaker 9: her find the right words, make sure she's portraying the
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Speaker 9: right meaning to the kidnappers. And I caught that too,
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Speaker 9: that celebrate with her. That first hurt me that because
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Speaker 9: I thought, you know, maybe they're already talking about her
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Speaker 9: being deceased, and I don't want that to be the
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Speaker 9: deal with Nancy guff three. But they're pleading with her
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Speaker 9: to get the at least get some more information, get
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Speaker 9: her back alive or dead, I think is what they
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Speaker 9: want at this point in time. We're at day nine,
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Speaker 9: so they're doing everything they can, and they're scripting what
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Speaker 9: they say to the goodnappers.
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Speaker 1: You know, she stated very clearly, we will pay, We
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Speaker 1: will pay. Many people are saying, if this is.
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Speaker 2: A kidnap, we're on the outside looking in.
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Speaker 1: They clearly think, Scott Iiker, that it is a kidnap
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Speaker 1: because they're entertaining it. They're speaking to the person that
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Speaker 1: are sending these missives to the local stations, and they're
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Speaker 1: willing to pay. We've heard six million dollars, which is
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Speaker 1: an interesting point that according to what we've gleaned, where
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Speaker 1: again on the outside, the first ransom was for one million,
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Speaker 1: then it increased to six million. The date for the
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Speaker 1: transfer into a bitcoin account, which has been verified, has changed.
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Speaker 1: It's very unlike your typical ransom scenario, which in itself
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Speaker 1: is very rare.
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Speaker 2: Indeed, I definitely agree.
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Speaker 9: In my twenty two years as an FBI agent and
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Speaker 9: twelve years as a police officer, I probably worked three
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Speaker 9: in the Denver metro area of ransom kidnappings, and so
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Speaker 9: they're very unique and very unusual to occur. This is
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Speaker 9: even more unusual that it's a celebrity's mother, and then
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Speaker 9: when they change, you know, the amount figures, they give
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Speaker 9: us two dates of deadlines. It's so weird in my
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Speaker 9: mind that I want to believe that it's a not
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Speaker 9: a ransom kidnapping. But as we continue to go forward
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Speaker 9: and we get no more information, and they are saying
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Speaker 9: they're going to pay pay the money. You would think
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Speaker 9: that would end the situation, but it's not. And maybe
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Speaker 9: it's because she's.
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Speaker 10: Not alive anymore.
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Speaker 1: I'm choosing to believe she's alive based on Savannah's wording
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Speaker 1: in her most recent plea, joining me as I said,
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Speaker 1: an all star panel to somehow makes sense of all
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Speaker 1: the information that's happening right now. To Matthew matt Lopez,
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Speaker 1: veteran criminal defense attorney, owner of the largest criminal defense
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Speaker 1: law firm in Arizona this jurisdiction at Matthew Lopez dot com, Matthew,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 5: Way in Thank you, Nancy.
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Speaker 11: So, I think it's human nature for us to all
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Speaker 11: hold out hope, right, and so if we have a
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Speaker 11: glimmer of hope that our loved one or our mom
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Speaker 11: is still alive, and that's really what we're going to
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Speaker 11: latch onto. And from the outset. A week ago, there
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Speaker 11: was a hope that this was a kidnapping, and there
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Speaker 11: was a letter leaked to the local station and to
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Speaker 11: TMZ demanding a sum of money in bitcoin. And of course,
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Speaker 11: as Savannah and her siblings, they are going to think, well,
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Speaker 11: hopefully this is a kidnapping and we can get our
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Speaker 11: mom home, returned home safely. As the days have progressed
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Speaker 11: and it's been a week, and exactly what the gentleman
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Speaker 11: just said, these are extremely rare. Kidnappings are rare, And
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Speaker 11: why would somebody kidnap a celebrity's mother.
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Speaker 5: That just does not make any sense.
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Speaker 1: There is no Matthew, Matthew, you had me until you said,
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Speaker 1: why kidnap a celebrity's mother for money?
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Speaker 2: They need money? Savannah has money.
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Speaker 5: There's a lot of people need a lot of money.
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Speaker 5: There's a lot of people.
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Speaker 2: Besides, but I could put two and two together and
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Speaker 2: get four.
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Speaker 11: You're good, right, But there's a lot of people that
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Speaker 11: have a million dollars. There's a lot of people that
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Speaker 11: have six million dollars. And so you know, if you're
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Speaker 11: playing the numbers and you go to a fluent community
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Speaker 11: and you find an eighty five year old lady, chances
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Speaker 11: are they have a million dollars or six million dollars.
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Speaker 11: Why would you kidnap a very very famous celebrity where
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Speaker 11: you know it's going to be all over the media.
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Speaker 11: That doesn't make any sense to me, And we have
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Speaker 11: no proof of life. So the first letter came and went,
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Speaker 11: and missus Guthrie is saying, or Savannah is saying that
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Speaker 11: they'll pay some proof of life, and we haven't seen it.
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Speaker 11: So I don't think this is a kidnapping situation. I
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Speaker 11: think this is changing to a murder investigation.
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Speaker 1: Well, okay, Matthew aka Matt Lopez, let me see him. Please, Matt,
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Speaker 1: you're right, but I don't want to believe it. I'm
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Speaker 1: not going to believe it until I have to believe it.
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Speaker 1: I've been pilloried online and beyond because I have not
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Speaker 1: jumped on the vigilante bandwagon claiming that a family member
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Speaker 1: is involved. I don't want to heap more sadness onto
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Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie and her family. But I'm going to address
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Speaker 1: what you just said.
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Speaker 2: Why her?
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Speaker 1: Why a celebrity. A lot of people may have a
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Speaker 1: million dollars or six million dollars. Think about this, Matt,
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Speaker 1: someone with in her circle that needs money, and she's
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Speaker 1: like a sitting duck. I don't necessarily mean the family.
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Speaker 1: How about a cohort of the family. How about a
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Speaker 1: granny nanny? Not necessarily the nanny. I got granny nannies
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Speaker 1: from my mom I gotta go to work, the children
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Speaker 1: go to school. I have to work. I can't leave
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Speaker 1: her alone. You know, she fell in August broke two
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Speaker 1: of these guys. I can't leave her alone at all.
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Speaker 1: So I love my granny nannies. I've known many, most
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Speaker 1: of them for years. One of them was even a
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Speaker 1: babysitter for the twins when they were little. And now
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Speaker 1: she's made an encore performance as a granny nanny that said,
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Speaker 1: I don't know their sons, their husbands, I don't know
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Speaker 1: everything about their family.
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Speaker 2: So I would look at the granny nanny relatives and
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Speaker 2: beyond believe me, I would be.
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Speaker 1: Investigating every single person and their son because you know,
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Speaker 1: this is likely a white male that did it. Statistically,
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Speaker 1: Ransom's rare, as Iker just pointed out, But when they
10:15
Speaker 1: do happen, it's.
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Speaker 2: A freaky white male.
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Speaker 1: Can anybody? Does anybody disagree with that? Karen Stark, agree
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Speaker 1: or disagree?
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Speaker 2: You're the shrink.
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Speaker 3: I agree. I definitely agree, Nancy, Okay, I feel like
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Speaker 3: totally yes, exactly. That's something that I really have to
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Speaker 3: point out that the reason that they would definitely use somebody,
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Speaker 3: in my opinion, like a famous celebrity is because they
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Speaker 3: really want to get that attention. That's not somebody who's hiding.
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Speaker 3: That's somebody who, of course he's hiding from the least
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Speaker 3: in the public, but who wants to be seen on television,
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Speaker 3: writing to TMZ, who wants to be in the newspapers.
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Speaker 3: Who's actually excited by the power that this person has
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Speaker 3: and is enjoying this immensely. There's no empathy going on.
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Speaker 3: You don't have empathy when you're picking an eighty four
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Speaker 3: year old woman who is vulnerable and sick.
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Speaker 2: You have power and you feel in control. Wow, astute
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Speaker 2: as usual.
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Speaker 1: That's Karen Stark guys renowned TV radio trauma expert, consultant
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Speaker 1: psychologists and you can find her at Karensdart dot com.
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Speaker 2: That's Karen with a.
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Speaker 1: Sea, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Matthew Matt Lopez.
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Speaker 2: So I hear what Karen is saying.
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Speaker 1: I'm not disagreeing with her, but I think more than attention,
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Speaker 1: they want money.
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Speaker 2: And it's someone that knows Missus Guthrie and knows her
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Speaker 2: daughter as a celeb, and it's in that circle. I
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Speaker 2: don't know.
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Speaker 1: It could be newspaper guy, it could be the mailman,
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Speaker 1: the FedEx man.
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Speaker 2: It could be the Uber eats, it could.
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Speaker 1: Be the Uber's awful black sheep son, some body that
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Speaker 1: knows her, and they knew her really well in that
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Speaker 1: they knew about the camera system such as it was.
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Speaker 1: They were comfortable in the home for what did we decide, Jackie?
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Speaker 2: Forty one minutes? Will you look at that number again?
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Speaker 1: And here's a great example, John ban A Ramsey, Matt, Matt,
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Speaker 1: I'm talking to you, Matt. I wanted to do that
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Speaker 1: since we first started the show. Okay, Matt, Remember John
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Speaker 1: bin A Ramsey. The perp felt very at home, not
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Speaker 1: at all concerned they were going to be detected. They
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Speaker 1: write a three page ransom note, they go and I
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Speaker 1: didn't like it. They write another three page ransom note.
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Speaker 1: Then they say, you know what, I wanted that one
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Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen thousand dollars, the exact amount that John
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Speaker 1: Ramsey had just gotten in a bu But screw that,
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Speaker 1: I'm just going to kill her and leave her in
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Speaker 1: the basement, never concerned that they would be detected.
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Speaker 2: That tells me a lot.
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Speaker 1: This person was in the home at least forty minutes,
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Speaker 1: not concerned that they were going to be detected. So
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Speaker 1: they clearly knew she lived alone, nobody was coming over there.
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Speaker 1: Very interesting, right, Lopez, it is Nancy.
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Speaker 11: But I think unfortunately both could be true. We could
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Speaker 11: have a murder and we could have somebody creating a
13:30
Speaker 11: ruse for a kidnapping. Both of those situations could very
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Speaker 11: well be true. And maybe we have a murder, which
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Speaker 11: hopefully it's not the case, because I too really feel
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Speaker 11: for Savanna, especially her being from Arizona, and I watched
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Speaker 11: twelve News all the time.
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Speaker 5: But we could have a murder and then.
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Speaker 11: Maybe a nefarious situation where somebody has taken advantage of
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Speaker 11: an opportunity to play this off as a kidnapping and
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Speaker 11: asking for a ransom.
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Speaker 1: Matt, if it was just a murder, just a murder,
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Speaker 1: not that any murder is running the meal to the victims' families.
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Speaker 1: If this were a murder, they would have murdered her
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Speaker 1: right there in the home. If it was a rape,
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Speaker 1: they would have raped her and killed her. If it
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Speaker 1: was a burglary, they would have taken things, items, money, jewelry, electronics.
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Speaker 2: None of that happened.
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Speaker 1: I mean no, that is contrary to all statistics. If
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Speaker 1: this were, as you say, your word's not mine, just
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Speaker 1: a murder.
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Speaker 2: They would have left her right there done.
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Speaker 5: Maybe right, But maybe they're hiding the evidence.
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Speaker 2: Oh dear lord, you got to.
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Speaker 11: Remember, people that commit these are not thinking like you
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Speaker 11: and I. People are thinking very differently, right, And to
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Speaker 11: compare this to John Binney Ramsey thirty five years ago approximately,
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Speaker 11: it's way different technology. And so for a person to
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Speaker 11: think that maybe they can get away with creating this
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Speaker 11: bitcoin account and the Guthries wiring one to six million
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Speaker 11: dollars if the FBI is not going to find them,
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Speaker 11: that's a stretch. I just don't. I don't see that possible.
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Speaker 11: And so maybe both are true.
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Speaker 2: You know.
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Speaker 1: I like what you just said, Matt Lopez, not the
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Speaker 1: part about murder. But so often we see things either
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Speaker 1: or they don't have to be either or there can
15:14
Speaker 1: be a lot going on. For instance, you know, let
15:17
Speaker 1: me go to Chris mcdona. Matt, I don't know if
15:18
Speaker 1: you know Chris mcdona. He is the director of the
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Speaker 1: Cole Case Foundation. Former homicide detective in Arizona. He has
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Speaker 1: worked over three hundred homicides. I found him on the
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Speaker 1: interview room on YouTube and it was fascinating.
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Speaker 2: That's one of the.
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Speaker 1: First times, Chris McDonough, I can remember actually watching something
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Speaker 1: for the entire forty minutes. It was that good and
15:46
Speaker 1: that informative. I don't mean good is in drama or comical,
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Speaker 1: I mean informative. And I went, I've got to find
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Speaker 1: this guy, and I did. Lucky me, Chris McDonough, I
15:57
Speaker 1: want you to follow up on what Matthew matt Lopez
16:02
Speaker 1: is saying.
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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts, because I believe if.
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Speaker 1: This were, as he says, just a murder, then we
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Speaker 1: would have found her body, God help us in her home?
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Speaker 1: Did just a murder? There's not really just a murder,
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Speaker 1: which leads me to all this talk about it's a
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Speaker 1: family member. How about see I don't want it to
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Speaker 1: be a family member, so I'm looking for alternatives. How
16:30
Speaker 1: about a cohort of a family member, or a son
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Speaker 1: or a brother, or a husband, or an ex of
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Speaker 1: a granny, nanny, or of someone that is in her church.
16:42
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, let's follow let's unravel it and
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Speaker 1: follow it through to a logical conclusion.
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Speaker 2: What about it? McDonough.
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Speaker 7: You know Nancy and all the things you're talking about
16:54
Speaker 7: there are reflective. What again, what we would call the
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Speaker 7: victim risk continuum. Right, environments, situation circumstance are this whole
17:02
Speaker 7: low medium or high risk? And in this situation that.
17:05
Speaker 1: You need to slow down nelly hold on the victim,
17:08
Speaker 1: what risk continuum?
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Speaker 7: And so just think of an l the letter l
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Speaker 7: over here, You've got environment, situation circumstance. So what's the environment,
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Speaker 7: she's in her house, what's the situation she sounds sleep
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Speaker 7: inside of her house, possibly at two am? And then
17:24
Speaker 7: what's the totality of that circumstance. Well, that totality is
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Speaker 7: she disappears at eighty four years old, potentially at two
17:31
Speaker 7: in the morning. So are those low, medium or high
17:34
Speaker 7: risk activities that she's involved in. They're all on the
17:37
Speaker 7: low side. And so that tells us that there had
17:41
Speaker 7: to be some type of pre association what we call it,
17:44
Speaker 7: between the victim and the offender. And so then you
17:48
Speaker 7: stay at the house and you start working the case
17:50
Speaker 7: that way, and in this situation, that's where the authorities
17:54
Speaker 7: first started. But then they kind of, you know, started
17:58
Speaker 7: to work outside of that, and then the letters come in,
18:02
Speaker 7: so that kind of changed some of the dynamics. But
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Speaker 7: everything in this case points towards an association with that house,
18:11
Speaker 7: and that the victim and the how or excuse me,
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Speaker 7: the victim and the suspect at some point cross paths.
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Speaker 7: That's exactly what this is telling us.
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Speaker 1: Well, okay, see, guys, I told you there was a
18:24
Speaker 1: reason that I saw him on the interview room and
18:27
Speaker 1: new he knows what he's talking about, and everybody on
18:31
Speaker 1: the panel, I'm not a school marm. Jump in, don't
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Speaker 1: wait for me to call on you. Okay, please, no
18:38
Speaker 1: one will be offended. Jessica fann is joining us guys,
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Speaker 1: Jessica senior investigative reporter of the US SON. They've been
18:44
Speaker 1: breaking these left and right on this case. Jessica way in,
18:48
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean this new random note I think is
18:53
Speaker 8: particularly interesting. There's no deadline for the new random node.
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Speaker 8: There's no proof of life again offered, and I think
18:59
Speaker 8: that there's probably a little bit of it. It's pretty
19:02
Speaker 8: disturbing that there's no kind of redemand there's no new
19:05
Speaker 8: ransom demand in this specific new ransom note. So it's
19:09
Speaker 8: kind of you know, the way Savannah is reacting to it.
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Speaker 8: I think has a lot of people speculating about the
19:14
Speaker 8: nature of what is in this ransom note. What's in
19:18
Speaker 8: this new note? It's not a random note because there's
19:20
Speaker 8: no ransom asked in it. One of the things that
19:24
Speaker 8: the local affiliate KOLD has said to CNN in an
19:28
Speaker 8: interview is that when this particular email came through their
19:32
Speaker 8: tip line, their staff was really upset by it. And
19:36
Speaker 8: so I think that that wording that reaction to the
19:40
Speaker 8: information that was in this potential this new letter, if
19:43
Speaker 8: this is from our kidnappers, I think it's probably ominous
19:48
Speaker 8: about what that letter contains, that it was particularly upsetting
19:52
Speaker 8: to the local affiliates staff members who saw it.
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Speaker 1: I want to follow up on what you just said,
20:00
Speaker 1: was really upset by what was contained in the letter.
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Speaker 1: You also stated Jessica Finn from the US Sun that
20:06
Speaker 1: there was.
20:07
Speaker 2: No proof of life in the note. How do we
20:11
Speaker 2: know that that.
20:13
Speaker 8: Was information that's came through I believe, I want to
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Speaker 8: say it's the news director to in an interview with
20:18
Speaker 8: CNN this weekend.
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Speaker 2: And also you stated no new deadline and no further demand.
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Speaker 2: How do we know.
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Speaker 8: That that's also information that's came directly from the station.
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Speaker 8: We do know that there was the previous letter that
20:33
Speaker 8: the previous letter that went to TMZ and it went
20:35
Speaker 8: to KOLD and it went to k GUN.
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Speaker 2: That was all.
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Speaker 8: It seems to be the same letter. That letter had
20:41
Speaker 8: a ransom demand. It had it had the I believe
20:45
Speaker 8: it was the Thursday deadline and the Monday deadline. So
20:48
Speaker 8: this new from what we understand, from what the news
20:51
Speaker 8: station has said itself, there was no new deadline for this.
20:54
Speaker 8: There was no new ransom demand with this letter, and
20:58
Speaker 8: it appears that this letter is specific. We also was
21:01
Speaker 8: a reaction to Savannah and her brother. Are those videos
21:05
Speaker 8: that we had out last week where they're saying, please, please,
21:09
Speaker 8: you know you need to reach out to us. We
21:11
Speaker 8: need to know that you have your our mother. And
21:14
Speaker 8: it seems like this was like the kidnappers, you know,
21:17
Speaker 8: actual reaction to the family begging for more contact, additional contact.
21:23
Speaker 6: We received your message and we understand. We beg you
21:28
Speaker 6: now to return our mother to us so that we
21:31
Speaker 6: can celebrate with her. This is the only way we
21:35
Speaker 6: will have peace. This is very valuable to us and
21:40
Speaker 6: we will.
21:40
Speaker 1: Pay her pacemaker disconnected around two twenty.
21:46
Speaker 5: Eight at am.
21:48
Speaker 7: Door bill camera disconnects at to twelve am.
21:52
Speaker 5: Software detects a person on a camera we just.
21:55
Speaker 1: Got that timeline is one of the family a suspect.
21:59
Speaker 2: The identify the.
22:00
Speaker 4: Blood right there at the entryway as being Nancys.
22:03
Speaker 1: Why would the door cam disconnect? Five o'clock has come
22:08
Speaker 1: and gone. What is the latest in the search for
22:12
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie this weekend? A lot of activity in the
22:17
Speaker 1: search for Nancy. Let's start with what was on the
22:21
Speaker 1: roof of her home and why did it take so
22:25
Speaker 1: long for l E Law enforcement to go search there?
22:29
Speaker 1: But I will say in their defense to Scott Iker,
22:33
Speaker 1: let me give him a formal Oh, this is for
22:35
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox News. That's from their flight team
22:38
Speaker 1: up in the air. Scott, let me give him his
22:40
Speaker 1: full intro. He's a digital forensics expert. He's a founding
22:46
Speaker 1: member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team CAST FBI
22:54
Speaker 1: twenty two years police homicide with Norfolk, Virginia PD years.
23:01
Speaker 1: He's worked many many missing persons cases. Currently with Precision
23:06
Speaker 1: Cellular Analysis, he handles criminal cases, defense and civil cases
23:11
Speaker 1: at p c A Precision Cellular Analysis Experts dot com. Scott,
23:17
Speaker 1: everyone again is trashing the police, and okay, they kind
23:22
Speaker 1: of deserve.
23:23
Speaker 2: A little bit of that. I've been angry with them
23:25
Speaker 2: ever since they.
23:25
Speaker 1: First released the scene, then they sequestered it again, then
23:28
Speaker 1: they release it again.
23:30
Speaker 2: It's back and forth like a seesaw with these people.
23:33
Speaker 1: But how often do police typically get up on the
23:37
Speaker 1: roof and look for evidence?
23:39
Speaker 2: How about never? So can you really fault them?
23:43
Speaker 9: I do understand what you're talking about. One of the
23:46
Speaker 9: things that when the FBI gets involved is we take
23:50
Speaker 9: help the local law enforcement, get more detailed, get just
23:55
Speaker 9: flood agents into the area so we have the time
23:58
Speaker 9: to do the things that they can't do. You got
24:02
Speaker 9: to remember the sheriff's office still has to answer nine
24:04
Speaker 9: one one calls, still has to do all their normal work,
24:07
Speaker 9: and now they're having to deal with this massive celebrity
24:11
Speaker 9: kidnapping or a missing person. One of the things when
24:14
Speaker 9: the FBI comes into help is that we just give
24:16
Speaker 9: them tons of agents. We give them agents to do searches,
24:20
Speaker 9: we do evidence collection. Will help them take a lot
24:23
Speaker 9: of the burden off the case, but they still own
24:26
Speaker 9: the case, and we'll just help them out by them information.
24:30
Speaker 9: So when we get there the second time, you know,
24:32
Speaker 9: after they release the scene, now it's a very detailed walkthrough,
24:36
Speaker 9: step by step of that whole property, the whole neighborhood,
24:40
Speaker 9: and maybe the police didn't see that camera the first time.
24:43
Speaker 9: We get on the roof, We get in the septic tanks,
24:45
Speaker 9: we look in the gutters, we look everywhere, because we
24:48
Speaker 9: have the time and the experience to do that.
24:51
Speaker 1: What do you make then hold on, let me go
24:54
Speaker 1: to Jessica Finn Jessica joining us us son.
24:57
Speaker 2: Why were they on the roof and what if anything
24:59
Speaker 2: did they find?
25:01
Speaker 8: So on the roof was a camera.
25:04
Speaker 2: We don't know.
25:04
Speaker 8: It was a security camera. We don't know if it
25:06
Speaker 8: was connected, We don't know, you know, if it was recording.
25:10
Speaker 8: This was after the cops initially swept the property after
25:14
Speaker 8: she disappeared. The cops had removed from what we know
25:17
Speaker 8: from what we understand so far is that the cops
25:19
Speaker 8: had removed most of the cameras and collected them into evidence.
25:22
Speaker 8: We also have learned since this happened that the doorbell
25:25
Speaker 8: was removed, likely by the alleged kidnappers. But on the
25:30
Speaker 8: roof was found another camera that was not initially found
25:35
Speaker 8: by local law enforcement, and the FBI removed that and
25:38
Speaker 8: quickly moved it into evidence.
25:41
Speaker 1: So to you, Dave mac joining us Crime Stories investigative reporter.
25:45
Speaker 1: I doubt pretty seriously that kidnapper put a camera up
25:50
Speaker 1: on the roof, so that means it was pre existing.
25:54
Speaker 2: What else does that mean? Was it trained on the
25:57
Speaker 2: front door.
25:57
Speaker 1: Let's see that video from our friends at Fox News
25:59
Speaker 1: Flat Light team again.
26:01
Speaker 2: Question to you, Dave Mac.
26:03
Speaker 1: You and I have gone over and over the capabilities
26:06
Speaker 1: of the nest in Nancy e Elephant s Saturn T
26:11
Speaker 1: teamwork the nest system. If it was part of that
26:16
Speaker 1: same system, it likely was not recording. If it was
26:20
Speaker 1: not part of that system, then we've got something.
26:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't imagine Nancy. They've given us, they being
26:27
Speaker 4: law enforcement, have given us nothing about the camera. We
26:31
Speaker 4: actually found out about it from a neighbor who was
26:34
Speaker 4: actually watching coverage and saw the overhead shot an aerial
26:39
Speaker 4: view and noticed that Nancy Guthrie's home. Her roof was
26:44
Speaker 4: so clean and white, and they've had rain a lot
26:47
Speaker 4: over the last couple of weeks, and a flat roof
26:49
Speaker 4: like that gets dirty very quickly.
26:51
Speaker 5: Now.
26:51
Speaker 4: I don't know what how high the camera was up
26:55
Speaker 4: on the roof in terms of from the roof line up,
26:58
Speaker 4: but you know a flat roof, Nancy gives you a
27:01
Speaker 4: clear line of sight. It could have been trained to
27:04
Speaker 4: see out in the driveway, out on the road. You
27:06
Speaker 4: would be able to see anybody approaching the home at
27:10
Speaker 4: any given hour if it was set up separate from
27:14
Speaker 4: the other cameras. And as you mentioned, we've already dealt
27:16
Speaker 4: with the lack of video available based on how they
27:21
Speaker 4: were using the cameras in the home.
27:24
Speaker 1: What do you make of this search, Scott? Iiker of
27:27
Speaker 1: getting something off of that roof, and we've been told
27:31
Speaker 1: it was a.
27:32
Speaker 2: Solar powered camera. Is that right, Jessica.
27:37
Speaker 8: Fan, Yeah, that's right, that's right, it was a solar
27:39
Speaker 8: powered camera.
27:42
Speaker 1: Interesting because I don't believe any of the other Nest
27:48
Speaker 1: equipment is solar powered, which is leading me, Scott to
27:51
Speaker 1: my query. Was the rooftop camera part of the Nest
27:56
Speaker 1: system or something altogether different?
28:00
Speaker 2: What do you make of finding this?
28:02
Speaker 9: I do think it's a very good find. It does
28:05
Speaker 9: make sense if there is no electrical area up there
28:09
Speaker 9: that they could do a solar power for that camera.
28:13
Speaker 9: And I have Nests and I understand the situation, but
28:16
Speaker 9: I don't understand why it wouldn't be connected to the
28:19
Speaker 9: other Nest cameras. As long as it has power and
28:22
Speaker 9: it can connect to Wi Fi. You have video from
28:25
Speaker 9: that camera. It's weird that they didn't find that.
28:28
Speaker 1: Person, So you do think it was likely connected to NEST.
28:31
Speaker 1: I do Do you have something connected up on your roof?
28:35
Speaker 10: I do well.
28:36
Speaker 9: I have it on the second floor of my house
28:38
Speaker 9: looks down my driveway into the street area, but it's higher,
28:43
Speaker 9: but it's not all the way on the third story
28:45
Speaker 9: of my house.
28:46
Speaker 1: Interesting, Dave Matt, you learned a lot about Nancy Guthries.
28:51
Speaker 2: We believe anyway her NEST system and a subscription.
28:56
Speaker 1: Is that you're understanding the cameras on the inside, which
29:00
Speaker 1: LA law enforcement went out of their way to state
29:02
Speaker 1: they were not destroyed, they were not broken on the inside,
29:07
Speaker 1: which led us to understand that they exist.
29:09
Speaker 2: There are cameras on the inside of her home, but
29:12
Speaker 2: not recording.
29:14
Speaker 1: My point is, if the rooftop camera is part of
29:18
Speaker 1: the NEST system of Scott Iiker believes, then if they
29:22
Speaker 1: aren't recording, it's not recording.
29:25
Speaker 2: What did you learn, Dave mac.
29:27
Speaker 4: We have not learned about whether this camera was associated
29:31
Speaker 4: with the other cameras in the house. But Nancy is
29:34
Speaker 4: something that you pointed out. It's been referred to as
29:37
Speaker 4: an electronic device, and the solar panel was removed along
29:42
Speaker 4: with it. So if this camera was set up after
29:45
Speaker 4: the fact, maybe this was set up separately and recorded differently.
29:50
Speaker 5: We just don't know.
29:51
Speaker 4: Because the law enforcement are not giving us information about
29:55
Speaker 4: the electronics associated with the home. We're having to put
29:57
Speaker 4: two and two together. But again, they did remove the
30:00
Speaker 4: solar panel that was attached to the electronic device, the
30:04
Speaker 4: camera on the root.
30:06
Speaker 1: You know, Dave Matt interesting that you said that that
30:08
Speaker 1: the solar panel was removed because Nest features this possibility.
30:16
Speaker 1: It has this feature of solar powered, but you have
30:19
Speaker 1: to have a compatible third party accessory to solar power it.
30:24
Speaker 1: And you're telling me that the solar panel was also removed,
30:28
Speaker 1: which means it did.
30:30
Speaker 2: Have the compatible third party accessory. Correct.
30:34
Speaker 4: Correct, That's absolutely correct.
30:36
Speaker 1: Which means air go Scott Iiker, it may have been
30:41
Speaker 1: recording if it was solar powered and not connected to
30:45
Speaker 1: the Nest in her home in that that needed a
30:49
Speaker 1: subscription and they didn't have one.
30:52
Speaker 2: What do you think of that, Scott?
30:53
Speaker 9: Yeah, if it is in fact separate, then the Nest system,
30:57
Speaker 9: which we know they didn't have subscription to, so they
31:00
Speaker 9: can't get the historical stuff.
31:02
Speaker 5: It's separate.
31:02
Speaker 9: Maybe it's going to record something that's going to be
31:05
Speaker 9: available to law enforcement, but as they should, they're not
31:09
Speaker 9: letting us know all the information they had.
31:11
Speaker 4: TMZ and KOLDTV two soon receive an additional ransom note,
31:15
Speaker 4: the content of which has not been shared with the public,
31:18
Speaker 4: but results in Savannah's reply video speaking directly to the kidnapper,
31:22
Speaker 4: indicating something in the most recent notes is changing the
31:25
Speaker 4: way the family is responding. Experts point out the first
31:28
Speaker 4: reply from the family was an emotional please, the next
31:31
Speaker 4: was a demand for proof of life, and now publicly
31:34
Speaker 4: offering to pay is strategic telling the kidnappers they're serious.
31:38
Speaker 4: The responses are expertly crafted to keep the line of
31:41
Speaker 4: communication open.
31:43
Speaker 1: We don't have a person of interest, yet everyone is
31:45
Speaker 1: under suspicious.
31:46
Speaker 2: The possibilities are so overwhelming. They don't know if their
31:49
Speaker 2: mother is alive, if she's dead.
31:52
Speaker 1: There was no blood on the interior of the home
31:54
Speaker 1: that they've been able to identify yet Day nine, Where
31:59
Speaker 1: is nance eating Guthrie?
32:01
Speaker 2: Also in the.
32:02
Speaker 1: Last hours, the home of daughter Annie Guthrie has been
32:07
Speaker 1: searched straight back out to Jessica Finn, joining us with
32:10
Speaker 1: the US SUN.
32:11
Speaker 2: What do we know.
32:13
Speaker 8: So our reporter on the grounds there has been observing
32:16
Speaker 8: the searches at both Nancy Guthrie and her daughter, Annie
32:19
Speaker 8: Guthrie's homes, and we know that the FBI was there
32:22
Speaker 8: with lights and flashlights searching Annie Guthrie's home the daughter
32:28
Speaker 8: over this past weekend, over the last couple of days,
32:30
Speaker 8: they were taking brown paper bags of what appears to
32:33
Speaker 8: be collections of evidence out from the home. They were
32:36
Speaker 8: in the garage, they were all over the property.
32:38
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, Jessica, could you
32:41
Speaker 1: start over and slow it down. That's a lot of information.
32:44
Speaker 1: You've got us all drinking from the fire hydrant, too much,
32:46
Speaker 1: too fast.
32:47
Speaker 2: Okay, start at the beginning.
32:48
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, So we have our reporter on the ground
32:51
Speaker 8: in Arizona who's been observing the local law enforcement and
32:55
Speaker 8: FBI coming and going from both Annie Guthrie's house and
32:58
Speaker 8: her mother, Nancy Guthrie's house, and the FBI was at
33:01
Speaker 8: Annie Guthrie's house, and they had been thoroughly searching the property.
33:06
Speaker 8: It seems that there was lights going off. There was
33:09
Speaker 8: what appeared to be from the street flashlights inside the
33:11
Speaker 8: house of a thorough search throughout Annie Guthrie's home. There
33:16
Speaker 8: were flashlights seen in the garage, all over her home property.
33:21
Speaker 8: It wasn't just like you know one, The search wasn't
33:23
Speaker 8: focused on one room. It appeared that at the FBI
33:26
Speaker 8: was going room by room and at the end of
33:29
Speaker 8: their exhaustive search of Annie Guthrie's home, they brought out
33:32
Speaker 8: paper bed what was ground paper bags after the search
33:35
Speaker 8: was completed, and what appeared would be evidence.
33:39
Speaker 2: What time of the day or not did the search occur?
33:43
Speaker 8: This was evening. This was an evening search. This was
33:47
Speaker 8: where you would it was. It was dark enough out
33:50
Speaker 8: that you were able to see that there were flashlights
33:53
Speaker 8: moving in the house. The search was definitely happening throughout
33:56
Speaker 8: the night and it actually wrapped up around ten thirty
33:59
Speaker 8: at night.
34:00
Speaker 1: Hmmm, So a late night search of Annie Guthrie's home,
34:06
Speaker 1: including the FBI. The law enforcement agents came out with
34:12
Speaker 1: brown paper bags. That's normal, and they were wearing gloves,
34:19
Speaker 1: so it's not to contaminate anything they touched.
34:23
Speaker 2: Matthew Lopez, what do you make of it?
34:27
Speaker 11: Well, you have to remember that Annie and her husband
34:29
Speaker 11: were I think the last people to see her alive. Right,
34:32
Speaker 11: and she joined them. Miscuthrie joined them for dinner on
34:35
Speaker 11: Sunday evening. Something that's curious to me is all the
34:39
Speaker 11: doorbell and the cameras and everything that's on the house,
34:41
Speaker 11: the harbor, on the house, but they haven't released the
34:43
Speaker 11: video of what's going on. Well, where's the video of
34:48
Speaker 11: Annie and her husband dropping mom off at the house
34:51
Speaker 11: and Mom walking to the door. Where's that disconnect? Why
34:54
Speaker 11: are we missing that evidence? And that least made to
34:56
Speaker 11: believe one of two things is true. Either A they
34:59
Speaker 11: have somebody on camera and they're not releasing it to us,
35:02
Speaker 11: or be they don't have any evidence. They don't have
35:04
Speaker 11: anything on camera. It's released to anybody, and they're scraping
35:07
Speaker 11: at the barrel for it. And if you're scraping out
35:08
Speaker 11: the barrel, then you've got to interview everybody. You've got
35:11
Speaker 11: to investige everyone. And the closest people to Mssus Guthrie
35:14
Speaker 11: were Annie and her husband that evening.
35:17
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a moment.
35:18
Speaker 1: Let's analyze what Matthew Lopez just said. Chris McDonald joining me.
35:24
Speaker 1: He is the star of the interview room on YouTube
35:27
Speaker 1: form a homicide detective. Let's look at that overhead video
35:31
Speaker 1: from our friends at Fox's, their flight team. He's saying,
35:36
Speaker 1: and jump in mad if I'm wrong that even if
35:39
Speaker 1: hold it on, that even if even if the cameras
35:45
Speaker 1: we're disc if the ring can the door cam let
35:48
Speaker 1: me say it's not a ring was taken off at
35:51
Speaker 1: the time of the kidnap, then why don't we have
35:55
Speaker 1: video of missus Guthrie, Nancy Guthrie being brought home that
36:02
Speaker 1: night around ninety five?
36:04
Speaker 2: Look at this, that's the back door.
36:08
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we could get an aerial view of
36:10
Speaker 1: the home. Does the front door offer a view of
36:16
Speaker 1: the driveway and the garage.
36:21
Speaker 10: The camera on the front door would not.
36:23
Speaker 7: In fact, I remember the sheriff said when they got home,
36:27
Speaker 7: she was dropped off at ninety eight pm and that
36:30
Speaker 7: there was an activation in the garage door and the
36:34
Speaker 7: garage door then closed at nine point fifty pm, so
36:36
Speaker 7: about two minutes for missus Guthrie, you know, allegedly to
36:41
Speaker 7: come through the garage possibly to be in the house.
36:44
Speaker 7: And when we look at the front door camera, the
36:46
Speaker 7: next camera, that's a battery operated camera. So even though
36:50
Speaker 7: it's taken off the and if it's attached to the
36:54
Speaker 7: Wi Fi or whatever, it's still going to roll. It's
36:57
Speaker 7: still on because it's not hardwired into that house, and
37:01
Speaker 7: that will probably drop into a server, as Scott knows
37:04
Speaker 7: more than anybody on this panel. And then from there,
37:07
Speaker 7: if you look in the back there where they're taking
37:10
Speaker 7: that camera off, that's focused at the back door. And
37:13
Speaker 7: remember in one of the ransom notes, allegedly there was
37:16
Speaker 7: this reported information about the spotlight being disconnected or something
37:23
Speaker 7: to that effect.
37:24
Speaker 10: If you look at the.
37:25
Speaker 7: Back door there in that drone shot, there's a spotlight
37:29
Speaker 7: hanging down there, and they also recovered that particular right
37:33
Speaker 7: there to the right. This is allegedly the door that
37:36
Speaker 7: was left wide opened by the suspect, which makes no
37:41
Speaker 7: sense in any way, shape or form, which is leading
37:44
Speaker 7: me to start thinking about, Okay, do we need to
37:47
Speaker 7: leave this house and go to another's house? And perhaps
37:51
Speaker 7: that's why folks are now pushing over towards Annie's.
37:55
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're saying.
37:56
Speaker 7: Explain, Well, what I mean by that is, remember the
38:00
Speaker 7: other day that you fed went into Annie's house. Okay,
38:04
Speaker 7: And as Scott pointed out this, or the defense attorney
38:08
Speaker 7: pointed out, that's the last place she was seeing.
38:11
Speaker 10: So that's the last proof of life potentially.
38:14
Speaker 7: So I think they probably went in that house to
38:17
Speaker 7: see if there's any connection and relationship to a digital download,
38:22
Speaker 7: you know, to maybe even the guy in La.
38:25
Speaker 1: When you're saying that guy in La, are you referring
38:29
Speaker 1: to Kalila, the guy that's been arrested for a fake
38:33
Speaker 1: ransom hoax? So you're trying to say, is he connected
38:36
Speaker 1: with the quote real kidnapper?
38:39
Speaker 10: Well, I'm trying to say, is he connected in.
38:41
Speaker 7: Some way, shape or form, you know, to maybe the
38:46
Speaker 7: family in that circle, remember that circle of influence that
38:51
Speaker 7: we talked about earlier.
38:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what does that have to do with anything,
38:54
Speaker 1: because he's already been determined that he's a crank.
38:57
Speaker 7: No, we get that, we get that, But how does
39:00
Speaker 7: a crank have both of their phone numbers?
39:02
Speaker 2: Ah, I see what you're saying.
39:03
Speaker 7: That's that's what they're trying to tie together. So they
39:07
Speaker 7: would go into Annie Shoush and download any digital information
39:11
Speaker 7: because she was the point of contact from that guy
39:14
Speaker 7: and either eliminate him or put it in the circle.
39:18
Speaker 1: Interesting, iiker, I want you to take that into account
39:22
Speaker 1: as well as the flood, the floodlight hanging down and
39:28
Speaker 1: everything digital.
39:31
Speaker 2: Give me your analysis.
39:34
Speaker 9: Well, when you say everything digital, that covers a lot.
39:38
Speaker 9: We talked about the you fed and that's used to
39:41
Speaker 9: download phones. Other devices are used to download computers. I
39:45
Speaker 9: remember right, Nancy Guthrie's phone was still at the house,
39:48
Speaker 9: So that's one thing they definitely would have used the
39:50
Speaker 9: you fed for. And we've got so much other digital evidence, cameras,
39:55
Speaker 9: neighborhood cameras, house cameras, tower dumps, all the stuff that
40:00
Speaker 9: they're looking at. And that's a ton of stuff to
40:03
Speaker 9: go through, especially when you're dealing with the power dumps,
40:05
Speaker 9: trying to figure out who was in that area at
40:08
Speaker 9: the time that she went missing and the days prior
40:11
Speaker 9: and the days after.
40:13
Speaker 2: Got a question for you.
40:15
Speaker 1: I'm not ruling anything out at all, nothing, but you
40:21
Speaker 1: just heard mcdonnaugh talking about we need to look at
40:24
Speaker 1: another residence that maybe she was never even at that home.
40:28
Speaker 1: That's where I think he's going with that. But wouldn't
40:31
Speaker 1: her phone have been triangulated or look for pings that
40:36
Speaker 1: night to make sure she actually made it back home.
40:40
Speaker 1: That doesn't take a long time, does it.
40:44
Speaker 5: It doesn't.
40:44
Speaker 9: And when you have the victim there that's implied consent.
40:49
Speaker 9: So now you can go right to the phone companies
40:51
Speaker 9: and get their records. And this is an exigen situation anyway,
40:55
Speaker 9: so you're already asking for records without court orders as
41:00
Speaker 9: we have a threat to life situation, So getting Nancy
41:03
Speaker 9: Gothrie's records would have been one of the first steps
41:06
Speaker 9: to see where she was, did it match the other
41:10
Speaker 9: famili's timeline of information, to validate everything and make sure
41:16
Speaker 9: we're on the right track. Since we started this as
41:19
Speaker 9: a missing person and now we're getting into more of
41:22
Speaker 9: a ransom.
41:23
Speaker 5: Type situation.
41:31
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
41:37
Speaker 1: Dave mac I know you heard what Scott Iiker just said. Clarify,
41:45
Speaker 1: we know her cell phone was at home because it
41:50
Speaker 1: was found at home. Her cell phone was at the home.
41:56
Speaker 1: How we're truly cynical. I would wonder did she ever
41:59
Speaker 1: even make it home, But for now I'm choosing to
42:03
Speaker 1: believe Annie Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's sister. I think it's too
42:09
Speaker 1: elaborate that she never made it home and that they
42:14
Speaker 1: came in to a m ish and staged this whole thing.
42:21
Speaker 1: The more elaborate a plan come becomes, the least likely
42:26
Speaker 1: that's what happened. We know her phone was there, but
42:31
Speaker 1: do we know she Nancy Guthrie was there.
42:37
Speaker 4: No, we do not know that absolutely. But using our brains,
42:42
Speaker 4: we know that she took an uber at five point
42:45
Speaker 4: thirty two to Annie's. We know that Tamaso Sioni dropped
42:49
Speaker 4: Nancy off at home at nine forty eight pm. Grudge
42:52
Speaker 4: door opens. He watched her go into the house. Grudge
42:56
Speaker 4: your closes nine.
42:57
Speaker 2: To fifty pm.
42:58
Speaker 4: The next act a kivity we have is one for
43:01
Speaker 4: seven am the doorbelt camera disconnected. We know there was
43:05
Speaker 4: a spike around two am on her on Nancy Guthrie's pastemaker.
43:10
Speaker 1: Step right there, stop stop stopping right there. You got me,
43:15
Speaker 1: Dave Matt. You answered my question. She did go back
43:18
Speaker 1: to that home. She did, so we don't have to
43:22
Speaker 1: pretend or hypothesize or spin our wheels on she never
43:25
Speaker 1: made it back to the home because you have to
43:29
Speaker 1: be connected. Your pacemaker which is in your chest has
43:34
Speaker 1: to be connected.
43:35
Speaker 2: To that home bluetooth.
43:37
Speaker 1: And it was because there was a spike in the
43:41
Speaker 1: pacemaker in her heart around two am and it became
43:45
Speaker 1: disconnected shortly after two am. Also, her cane was there.
43:53
Speaker 1: If you look in most of the pictures, you'll see
43:55
Speaker 1: her with a cane. Her cane was there. Anders really
44:01
Speaker 1: uncontroverted evidence that she was there. So everybody that's spinning
44:05
Speaker 1: out this crazy theory that she was never taken home,
44:09
Speaker 1: she was.
44:10
Speaker 8: This is a beloved mother and grandmother.
44:14
Speaker 1: She's eighty four, she's on meds, she's got a heart problem,
44:16
Speaker 1: she's got a pastmaker.
44:18
Speaker 2: She's eighty four years old.
44:20
Speaker 5: Her health, her heart is special.
44:23
Speaker 1: Would they know enough to take her pills to keep
44:26
Speaker 1: her alive? In Savannah's most recent plea, I noticed she
44:33
Speaker 1: did not directly address her mother as she did in
44:37
Speaker 1: the original message, which was excruciating to watch Savannah and
44:44
Speaker 1: her brother and sister's pain. But that pain etched on
44:48
Speaker 1: Savannah's face just heart breaking. Well, we've got to bring
44:54
Speaker 1: up the search of the septic tank to Dave mac
45:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, what happened?
45:03
Speaker 4: Law enforcement made a trip over to Nancy Guthrie's house
45:06
Speaker 4: once again. This time they went into the septic tank area,
45:12
Speaker 4: which there is a fairly large manhole type cover over
45:17
Speaker 4: her septic system. It's dissimilar from what oftentimes we expect
45:23
Speaker 4: to see from a septic tank, but it is fairly
45:26
Speaker 4: common nowadays, and they, being law enforcement, were seen with
45:32
Speaker 4: the lid to the septic tank open and again about
45:36
Speaker 4: the size of a manhole, with a long stick poking
45:40
Speaker 4: it into the septic tank to apparently see what they
45:45
Speaker 4: could find.
45:46
Speaker 1: Guys, the video and photos you were seeing are from
45:48
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox News Flight Team to Matt Lopez
45:52
Speaker 1: joining us for now criminal defense attorney in this jurisdiction.
45:58
Speaker 2: I've dealt with a lot of evidence.
46:00
Speaker 1: Septic tanks one of the things I don't like to
46:03
Speaker 1: deal with. For all the city folk out there, what
46:07
Speaker 1: is a septic tank? When you're out in a rural
46:09
Speaker 1: area such as where Missus Guthrie lived, you may not
46:14
Speaker 1: be connected to as we country folks like to say,
46:17
Speaker 1: city water that includes city septic and you will have
46:21
Speaker 1: a tank, literally a septic tank in your backyard. I
46:27
Speaker 1: noticed a lot of outlets are saying there was a manhole.
46:29
Speaker 1: It's not a manhole in the traditional sense, it's a
46:32
Speaker 1: septic tank. So what evidence were they looking for? They
46:36
Speaker 1: were not looking for a body. I really do not
46:39
Speaker 1: believe that at this juncture. So what could they have
46:42
Speaker 1: been looking for? Lopez, You've dealt with all sorts of evidence.
46:46
Speaker 11: Well, if they weren't looking for the body, they could
46:48
Speaker 11: be looking did the perpetrator or flush something down the toilet, right,
46:52
Speaker 11: in which case they could be looking for DNA. I
46:54
Speaker 11: don't know if that would be the case, because if
46:56
Speaker 11: you're poking at something with a stick, of course, how
46:58
Speaker 11: are you going to find some DNA evidence with that?
47:01
Speaker 11: My thought would be they were looking for a body,
47:03
Speaker 11: and I know it's obvious, or you know, you say
47:05
Speaker 11: that maybe it's probably not the body, but I think
47:07
Speaker 11: you just got to check all of the boxes, and
47:09
Speaker 11: it was a box being checked.
47:10
Speaker 5: They were looking for a body.
47:12
Speaker 1: That's a really good point, just tacking the boxes, making
47:15
Speaker 1: sure they did everything possible. You're right again, Matthew Lopez,
47:20
Speaker 1: Karen start. I want to hear your thoughts tonight.
47:22
Speaker 2: Well.
47:23
Speaker 12: One of the things that I'm thinking about, Nancy is
47:25
Speaker 12: the perpetrator and the difference between the two notes. And
47:30
Speaker 12: it seems to me in the beginning this is speculation,
47:34
Speaker 12: of course, and I'm alleging this, but the guy was
47:37
Speaker 12: or whoever it was, was looking for the kind of
47:40
Speaker 12: attention I mentioned earlier with the news actually going to
47:45
Speaker 12: TMZ and wanting people to know what's going on and
47:49
Speaker 12: probably following it and being excited and feeling powerful. But
47:55
Speaker 12: when it comes to the second time, I'm thinking that
47:58
Speaker 12: maybe it became too much and this person or people
48:02
Speaker 12: became felt like they were cornered that there was they
48:08
Speaker 12: started to get frightened. Instead of peaving out their feathers,
48:13
Speaker 12: they began to be scared that said they would be
48:16
Speaker 12: found out or it was getting to be too much,
48:19
Speaker 12: and so they are no longer saying anything like your
48:24
Speaker 12: mother could be alive or is.
48:25
Speaker 3: Alive, or you know, if you want her, but more
48:29
Speaker 3: like if you want to have anything to do with her,
48:33
Speaker 3: if you if you want to be ever have her back,
48:37
Speaker 3: instead of acting like they could actually get her back alive.
48:42
Speaker 13: Right Chris McDonald, Yeah, No, I agree with doc where
48:47
Speaker 13: you know, I think it's interesting that Savannah in her
48:51
Speaker 13: last police said if you're listening, and she also said,
48:56
Speaker 13: we understand now that's that that's tactical one on one
49:02
Speaker 13: BAU language for trying to create that empathy within the
49:08
Speaker 13: suspect to treat the victim potentially as a real human being.
49:14
Speaker 7: And the problem that I'm having with that response is
49:18
Speaker 7: she's not getting a response and that's problematic in of itself,
49:23
Speaker 7: which would go towards the proof of life problem.
49:26
Speaker 9: I agree with Chris, there's a lot of speculation going
49:31
Speaker 9: on here on is she alive, If she's not alive,
49:34
Speaker 9: is this real ransom. I hope it all works out
49:38
Speaker 9: that they you know, she's alive, and they get her back.
49:43
Speaker 9: But I do take from what you've said and what
49:46
Speaker 9: the other panelists have said, it might look like she's
49:50
Speaker 9: not alive anymore and they're pleading to get her remains
49:54
Speaker 9: back so they can celebrate her life have a proper funeral.
49:59
Speaker 2: Jessica Fan joining us the US SUN.
50:01
Speaker 1: I'm still holding on to the one word with with
50:04
Speaker 1: celebrate with the mom.
50:10
Speaker 8: I am too, Nancy. I mean, when I first heard
50:13
Speaker 8: that that final message that we that was released by Savannah,
50:17
Speaker 8: I really was hoping that that the way she said
50:21
Speaker 8: I want to sell it, we want to celebrate with her.
50:23
Speaker 8: I was hoping that that meant that they got some
50:25
Speaker 8: sort of proof of life. But now that more information
50:27
Speaker 8: has come out about this latest letter, I'm feeling less hopeful, unfortunately.
50:34
Speaker 8: And just one other thing, I know your expert panelists
50:37
Speaker 8: are amazing. One of them had mentioned that this is
50:40
Speaker 8: most likely somebody in a concentric circle. And one of
50:43
Speaker 8: the things that's just been kind of on my mind
50:45
Speaker 8: over the last several days as I've been following it
50:48
Speaker 8: is that Nancy, everybody, the only people knew that Nancy
50:53
Speaker 8: had this heart medication that was absolutely important for her
50:57
Speaker 8: to be alive, to stay alive. Basically, when it comes
51:03
Speaker 8: to family members that are really close, it just makes
51:05
Speaker 8: me wonder they would have known that you needed the
51:07
Speaker 8: medication if they were in it to do this.
51:11
Speaker 4: And Dave mac Nancy, I assue him looking at that
51:15
Speaker 4: last message, and I'm was hopeful. Now I'm not. But
51:21
Speaker 4: the one thing they didn't ask for was proof of life.
51:25
Speaker 4: They offered in this message a way that there could
51:28
Speaker 4: be resolution where both parties can feel like they're satisfied
51:35
Speaker 4: in the end. That's what it seemed to me.
51:38
Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfolds.
51:40
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Missus
51:43
Speaker 1: Guthrie's case, please dial toll free eight hundred two two
51:48
Speaker 1: five five three two four repeat eight hundred two two
51:52
Speaker 1: five five three two four or anonymous tips five two
51:57
Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four six three three five
52:01
Speaker 1: two zero eight eight two seven four six three There
52:05
Speaker 1: is a fifty thousand dollars reward. We remember an American hero,
52:11
Speaker 1: Trooper Hunter Bennett, Arizona Department Public Safety, just twenty eight,
52:16
Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his young
52:20
Speaker 1: wife turned widow. American hero Trooper Hunter Bennett Nancy Gray
52:27
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,