Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / From Tech to Teaching: How Sima Shah is Transforming Early Education in Silicon Valley | Childcare Series

Transcript

From Tech to Teaching: How Sima Shah is Transforming Early Education in Silicon Valley | Childcare Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
0:10
how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
0:13
they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:18
the Inspired Stories podcast where leaders share their
0:20
experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
0:24
by how they've overcome adversity.
0:26
My name is Anthony Cotespotti and today's guest is Seema Shaw,
0:30
owner of 4 Primrose schools and counting.
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Primrose of Willow Gwen, which is in San Jose, CA, Primrose of
0:39
Cupertino, also in San Jose, and two locations that will open in
0:43
late 2025, which are Primrose of Milpitas and Primos of San Jose
0:49
N Alameda. Now Primrose is the national
0:52
chain of early childhood education centers.
0:56
Sima has a bachelor's in computer engineering and a
0:59
master's in computer science from USC and she received her
1:03
site supervisor permit after completing the necessary
1:06
coursework in childhood development.
1:09
Now before starting her childcare centers, Seema was
1:11
involved in a number of technical computer jobs and was
1:14
even a professor of computer science for a time.
1:17
So we'll get to hear about her non traditional path to early
1:20
childhood education and we'll get to hear about her passion
1:24
for research based and innovative education.
1:27
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2:00
Now back to our guest today, the owner of multiple perimeter
2:03
schools, Seema. I appreciate you making the time
2:05
to Share your story today. Thank you for inviting me.
2:10
So Seema, it seems to me like you took a bit of a non
2:13
traditional path to get here. You've got a strong background
2:18
both on the educational side as well as practical work
2:20
experience in more technical computer, computer oriented
2:25
jobs. Talk to me about how that
2:28
transition from 1 industry to the early childhood education
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industry came about. Sure.
2:36
So it all comes down to me being a mom, being an immigrant mom in
2:40
this country because yes, I had a tech job.
2:44
I was, I was working in a tech industry.
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Then I became mom in 2005. I just made quite a bit of
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assumptions about, you know, I live in a tech capital of the
2:56
world. When it's time for me to find
2:57
the right childcare, there will be a lot of opportunities.
3:01
To be honest, I struggled a bit at that particular point.
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I didn't have much knowledge about child development, what I
3:07
was looking for, but I was kind of, you know, not being sure
3:13
about is this is what I'm looking for, right?
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I struggled a bit. I would keep my daughter in a
3:20
childcare centre, then, you know, disenroll her back,
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something that was not setting right to me, right?
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Once she became a preschool age, I started learning about
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different philosophies like Montessori, play based, all of
3:35
that. And I just like any other mom, I
3:38
wanted to have the best for my daughter, right?
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I, I kind of designed my own program by sending my daughter
3:45
to two different schools, Montessori program as well as,
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you know, a structured program. It didn't go well because, you
3:52
know, they're just little being, you know, sending to two
3:55
different schools, two different schedules.
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It just becomes a struggle for them.
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Although I may think it's a, it's a great plan that I have
4:03
created for her. Then I just started thinking
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there has to be a very balanced program which provides a good
4:10
balance of, you know, different philosophies because every child
4:14
is different, their personalities are different, you
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know, and I was just thinking about it, you know, that got to
4:20
be, that has to be a better program somehow.
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I ran into Primrose through Wall Street Journal article and
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that's where I learnt about their balanced learning
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philosophy. And I was immediately stuck and
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impressed. And to be honest, I took the
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phone, I called the 800 number from that article and I called
4:41
them and asked them, hey, do you have any Primrose schools in
4:44
California? And they'd say, we don't have
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any Primrose schools in California.
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We don't plan to expand in California.
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That's not a road map. California is not the market for
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us. And that was the end of the
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story. Fast forward from 2012, you
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know, I received a call from Primrose corporate because they
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saved my number for about six to seven years, right?
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And they said, hey Seema, you remember you called us a couple
5:13
of years back, you wanted to enroll your daughter in Primrose
5:17
Schools. We are reaching out to you
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because will you be interested in opening a Primrose Schools?
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Literally, I was sitting in my. Sorry, you see me.
5:25
So the first time that you called them was not to open up a
5:28
facility. It was just looking for a
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location for your daughter, OK? Absolutely.
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So now they called you back and they said, hey, you want to be
5:35
the first? Yeah, and I still remember, I
5:37
still like, I was sitting in my cube, you know, just in front of
5:40
computer, you know, in a cube. Like, you know, everybody sits
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in a cube in a tech world and they call me.
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And, you know, I was quite a bit surprised, but they said, like,
5:50
you might be surprised. We understand, but we are
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calling you because you genuinely showed interest in our
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balanced learning philosophy. And we want franchise owners who
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really, you know, who are really invested in our philosophies.
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I just paused for a while and they said, OK, we're going to
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fly you to Colorado and have a look at some of the Primrose
6:10
schools. And why don't you make a
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decision after that? So I flew to Colorado.
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I visited to Primrose Schools. But to be honest, like my first
6:19
impression, amazing, outstanding.
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The facility, the cleanliness, the health and safety protocols,
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classrooms, meeting the owners. I was just blown away.
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In fact, I was like, wow, can this really be an early learning
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experience? Unimaginable, unthinkable.
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By that time, my daughters were already, you know, in elementary
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grades, right? Obviously, you know, even if I
6:48
build a school, they would never get to experience Primrose
6:50
schools. But then I thought that, you
6:53
know, our community here in South Bay or our tech capital,
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we are missing on this. And there are so many moms just
7:00
like me in today's world. Mom and dad both work.
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They want Peace of Mind. They want to drop their child to
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a place which is a second home for them, right?
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Because they're spending 6 to 8 hours minimum at a childcare
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facility. It must provide the best
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experience in terms of cleanliness, health and safety
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protocols, in terms of learning experiences also.
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And that's how my journey began for from Rose.
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I really felt I can bring something unique to the
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community. Definitely all parent community
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community will really appreciate it.
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Having this experience in our community.
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Having this option in our community would be a great
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asset. So a couple of things here.
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I also am very surprised that there weren't better options
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available in Silicon Valley. You know, people think about
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Silicon Valley, you know, lots of good paying jobs, you know,
7:57
parents with the ability to pay for premier education, and you
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were struggling to find something that really met your
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needs. Yeah.
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And then the other surprising thing is so you call Primrose
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and you're like, hey, I want to, you know, I've got a daughter.
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I want to put her into one of your schools.
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And they're like, oh, sorry, we're not in California.
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We don't plan to be in California.
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But for how many years? Did you say it was five years or
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six years that they held on to your number and then called you
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back? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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And not only did they call you, it wasn't like they called you
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back and said, hey, we've got a school now.
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They called you back and they said, hey, would you like to
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open a school? And you have to be like, well,
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I, I don't have a background in, you know, early childhood
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education. And that didn't seem to faze
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them. I mean, they were so hooked on
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you from the beginning. And they said, let's fly you
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down to Colorado and and, you know, let let's let's give you
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the Grand Tour and and then you can make a decision.
8:56
Yeah. I mean, that's all to me, that's
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sort of mind boggling. I would think they'd be looking
9:00
for people that had an experience in this type of
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industry, but they saw something in you.
9:05
Yeah, absolutely. Primrose franchise owners come
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from diverse background, but I think they're looking for
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passionate people and probably that's something that they
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noticed in me. I'm guessing I see now many
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franchise owner come from a tech background, but I never planned
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for it. This was never my plan.
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I never taught or dreamed about opening a childcare center in my
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life. It just happened to me and
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that's how my journey began. OK.
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And so in what year did you open your first center?
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Yes. I opened my first center in
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2017. I signed my first franchise
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agreement in 2013. OK.
9:52
So it took a few years from when you signed the agreement and you
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spent that time maybe looking for a location, building out the
10:00
location, getting permits. What?
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What? What happened in between those
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few years? Yes, lot of challenges, right,
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because traditional Primrose schools are built on A2 acre
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plot, just like very beautiful locations, very beautiful
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construction and all of that. But I think once we started
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looking for locations in California, the reality hit,
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it's very difficult to find a 2 acre plot in Bay Area, right?
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And we kind of have to, we started our journey looking for
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large piece of land. We didn't go anywhere.
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Then we kind of changed the parameters.
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We were looking for an acre plot and kind of my Willow Glen
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school is a double Decker, it's a 2 Storey school, right?
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So we kind of made two acre into one acre and that's how you
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know. So it took a long time.
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Also San Jose city permits, it took us about 1 1/2 year to get
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through all the permits. Also challenging time.
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I remember in 2016 we had quite a bit of flooding our city.
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So construction also we had to stall for six months in the in
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between during the construction phase and Willow Lane was a
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ground up constructions. We had to work, go through a lot
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of permits from water to gas to electricity.
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Everything took a quite a bit of time.
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And I think that also made me realize, wow, in California it's
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extremely challenging to open the schools.
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And no wonder I was struggling to find something that I was
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looking for. It's, it's quite a bit of
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journey and the work. California is very highly
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regulated state, I'm sure you are aware of, right?
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So we are constantly juggling state regulations, child care
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regulations all the time. Like 2 balls that I have to
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continuously juggle all the time.
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So in this four years, when you're looking for land, you're
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doing the build out, you're getting the permits, were were
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there any certifications or education that you had to go
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through? Correct.
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So I continued to work, you know, until 2015 and in between
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I started doing my child development classes because that
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would take about a year for me to finish and obtain my site
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supervisor permit. So I'll continue to work, you
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know, once we receive the city permits.
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That's when I stopped working because now the construction
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phase was about to start. OK.
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So during part of this time, you kept your job in the tech
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industry. And then at a certain point, OK,
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now we're starting construction. Now I'm gonna focus my energies
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on this full time. Exactly, Yeah.
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And then you were able to open your doors for the first time in
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2017. And tell me about that process
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of attracting the first cohort of new students in.
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Yes, quite a bit of marketing. I did one-on-one I would say.
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I opened my school on 1st day with 77 families.
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That's that means I would say it's, it's big achievement in
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the sense that I was actually awarded the.
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So what Primrose does is that every year when they open the
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new schools, they award the schools with highest number of
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occupancy within the first three months of opening.
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And I received that award for that particular year.
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So a lot of local marketing that I went through while the
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construction was happening, what I would do every Saturday and
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Sunday, literally, I would sit in a Starbucks.
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I would invite parents one-on-one.
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I would share the knowledge about Primrose.
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We call it parent information meetings, right?
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And that's how I brought my first 77 parents the day we
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opened our school. So literally one hour one-on-one
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talking about Primrose, I think I had to create a lot of
13:49
awareness about Primrose because there was no brand awareness
13:53
about Primrose. Like Texas, Florida, those are
13:55
big hub for Primrose. Everybody knows what Primrose is
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in California, nobody knows Primrose, right.
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So a lot of education that went through literally one-on-one.
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And for me, not coming from a childcare background, I had to,
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it was nerve wracking in the beginning because I don't, I
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didn't come with an experience of working in a childcare,
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right? So I didn't, I, I had to learn
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what would be the right answers if parent asked these questions,
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right? And how will they relate to me?
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How they will trust me because I come from a tech background.
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And now I'm saying I'm opening a Primrose school.
14:36
So these one-on-one sessions that you were doing with the
14:39
parents in Starbucks, how were you meeting the parents in the
14:43
first place? Right.
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So I had a website by that time parents will put an inquiry.
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So I get that information. Then I reach out to them, I call
14:52
them and I said, hey, thank you for your interest.
14:55
In our school, majority of the parents were local.
14:58
So they were seeing the construction upcoming, right?
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So they would reach out, they would inquire about me.
15:04
I would have advertisement at local restaurants, shops, you
15:10
know, you know, a lot of different local marketing that I
15:14
did to create an awareness for Primro schools.
15:16
And they would reach out to me via school website to inquiry.
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And that's when I reach out to them and say, hey, let's meet
15:22
for an hour. I can share more about Primro
15:25
schools. And yeah, I mean, I had a
15:28
PowerPoint presentation. We meet at the Starbucks.
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I go through the presentation. Yeah.
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That's a that's a lot of nose to the grindstone.
15:37
That's, that's some good hustling work in those.
15:39
Yeah. A lot of hustling.
15:40
Yeah. I used to start at 9:00 and
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leave at 6:00 and literally 1 after the other parent meeting
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Saturday and Sunday, that's how it went.
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Sometimes I went to even parent's house because I
15:52
remember we had one parent. Actually her three kids went
15:56
through my school. Mom and dad both were surgeons,
15:59
very busy and they say hey Seema, can you come to our house
16:02
and do a presentation at home because we have 3 kids, very
16:05
busy. We are surgeons.
16:06
I say don't worry, I'll come to your house.
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And, you know, a lot of hustle, yes.
16:12
And we also running online ads. Was that a way that people were
16:15
finding? You yes, a lot of digital
16:17
marketing also combination digital local.
16:21
And so you opened up, what did you say with 70 plus families?
16:25
77 families. And what was your process for
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finding the teachers and the administrators to help support
16:33
you when you first opened? So finding the teachers, I think
16:36
we were using applicant tracking system.
16:38
Gosh, I don't remember the name. We are using carrier plug now.
16:41
At that time we had another applicant tracking system.
16:45
So they would apply, you know, call for an interview.
16:49
And that's how and also even them, I had to sell from Rose
16:53
School because I'm selling something that doesn't even
16:55
exist, right? So at that point, they're buying
16:59
you. Yeah.
17:01
Seema's the brand at that point. Yes and absolutely.
17:07
So tell me more about the Balanced Learning curriculum.
17:11
I know this is something you're really excited about.
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Help explain that to us. Sure.
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So in early childhood education, there are many different
17:18
philosophies like play based, Montessori, Reggio Amelia
17:24
structured and on and on. Primrose philosophies, Balanced
17:28
learning where we create a blend of all these different
17:30
philosophies. It's called balanced learning
17:34
because we create a balance of child initiated activity and
17:37
teacher guided activities throughout the day.
17:40
Child initiated activities, you can compare more with play based
17:44
or Montessori approach where children are allowed to select
17:48
what they want to do in a day, right?
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And again, this is extremely important because we want to
17:53
give them freedom. They must feel independent
17:56
because it just brings up confidence in them when they are
17:59
selecting activities for them. But also there are times in a
18:03
day where we which are more teacher guided, for example,
18:09
when it's some music and movement time or for preschool
18:12
and pre kindergarten when it's illiteracy and math time, those
18:15
are little teacher, those are teacher guided activities.
18:17
But throughout the day we create this balance of child initiated
18:20
teacher guided, child initiated teacher guided activities.
18:24
Children don't even realize that's happening, right?
18:27
They just feel we are having fun, but they are having a
18:31
purposeful fun because Primrose does have an education team
18:35
which consists of several different professor across the
18:38
state who does a research, right.
18:40
We have professor who does research in STEAM learning.
18:44
We have professors who does research in physical development
18:48
and so on. And all of them contribute to
18:51
Primrose curriculum, balanced learning curriculum.
18:54
And that's pretty unique. And what I like, coming from a
18:58
tech background, is something that is very much open for
19:01
innovation, right? For example, Montessori method,
19:05
Maria Montessori, 1853. What innovation is happening in
19:08
Montessori philosophy as of today?
19:11
Probably not much, but Primrose is constantly innovating,
19:15
constantly looking at a research and you know, kind of blending
19:20
it into the curriculum constantly.
19:23
And that is something I like about promos, philosophy.
19:26
Also, children are different types of learners.
19:28
Some are very auditory learners, some are visual learners, some
19:31
are kinesthetic, more hands on learner and some are
19:35
combination, right? So any curriculum should engage
19:40
all three different types of learners, right?
19:43
What I like about Prabros is that any concepts that they
19:46
teach, they include all three auditory, visual as well as
19:51
kinesthetic, right? So for auditory teacher will
19:54
read a book in the beginning about the concepts, do more
19:58
critical thinking questions. She will also present lot more
20:02
visuals and then every child goes on the table and does
20:06
individual hands on activity. So somewhere you're going to
20:10
engage all three different types of learner and this is extremely
20:13
important. I see that day-to-day happening
20:15
at my school. Children are engaged and
20:18
immersed. Why?
20:20
Because curriculum is so comprehensive that it is
20:23
attracting all different types of students.
20:25
For me, it's easier to now spot an auditory learner versus
20:29
someone who is anesthetic learner, right?
20:32
You may feel like child is not paying attention, but he's an
20:35
auditory learner. He's listening to everything.
20:38
When you stop and ask a question, he knows what we're
20:40
talking about in the fashion. You know, as we're talking here,
20:44
Seema, I'm realizing that this transition that you made from
20:49
computer science into early childhood education is not as
20:53
unusual as maybe I was first making it out in my head because
20:58
you're obviously a highly educated person yourself.
21:00
Multiple college degrees, you worked in a very progressive
21:05
and, you know, fast moving environment where you, you
21:09
really have to stay on top of the trends.
21:11
You know, computer science is changing all the time and
21:14
you're, you're taking that sort of same passion for education in
21:19
general and innovative ways of thinking and approaching things
21:24
and now applying it to early childhood education.
21:26
So it it really seems when we kind of frame it like that, it
21:30
seems to fit very nicely. Yeah, I agree with you because I
21:34
really appreciated the innovation specifically coming
21:37
from tech background and I appreciated that Primrose is
21:40
constantly innovating. So you're absolutely right.
21:44
So when did you decide to open your second location?
21:49
So after opening for schools about one 1 1/2 year, we signed
21:55
up for the second location. But you know, a hard reality
22:00
stuck. We were in COVID 2020.
22:03
My second location was slated to opening 2021, right?
22:08
But COVID was really hard time. We had to navigate COVID for my
22:13
first school, right? Because this is early learning
22:16
education. We are not elementary grades who
22:19
can go remote, right? So lot of innovation I had to
22:26
come up with how to survive in COVID.
22:29
And then tail end of 2021, you know, we decided, OK, I think we
22:36
survived. Well, now let's focus on the
22:39
next location and the second school we open in April of 2022.
22:42
But again, challenging time because you're opening the
22:45
school still in COVID, right? Parents are still sceptical and
22:50
for the younger ones, for example 2 year olds right?
22:53
I have to convince those parents whose child was actually born in
22:56
COVID 2020 right? So a very different type of
23:01
convincing took place then when I opened my first location.
23:05
Why from Rose is a safe choice? Why you can put your child in a
23:09
second school? I had to do everything right for
23:13
my first school during COVID so I can get that trust from the
23:18
parent for the second school. Was there any point during
23:25
COVID, while you're working on that new location where you
23:28
thought about shifting gears and just saying, you know what,
23:32
we're going to skip the second location.
23:34
I'm not sure how this is going to turn out.
23:37
Not at all. Not at all.
23:39
Right. Again, as I told you, you know,
23:45
it's not my personality. I just feel like, you know,
23:49
tough times do pass by, but the tough people do always last.
23:54
So I'm that person. I never thought about closing it
23:59
like, you know, just not do the second school.
24:02
I think at that time, during COVID time, my focus was just
24:05
COVID envelope school because it was very challenging, you know,
24:12
never thought about it. Suddenly next day my school
24:15
closed, right? Because we had so many
24:18
regulations from county, only first responders, parent
24:22
children can come to school. You know, I see parents calling
24:26
me left and right throughout the day, OK, what are we going to
24:30
do? My child is at home, blah, blah,
24:32
blah. And I had to take a pause and I
24:35
said, OK, let's try online learning, right?
24:39
Never thought about it. Even Primrose Corporate did not
24:43
have a protocol for online learning.
24:45
So I sat down with my education coach in a day.
24:48
We design an online learning curriculum and.
24:52
The next. In a day like literally we sat
24:55
down and we said OK, let's just slice it.
24:57
Let's start with the morning curriculum in the morning,
25:02
second, third day, we just did a dry run right for our preschool
25:06
and pre kindergarten 3 and 4 year olds.
25:09
And we received a very positive feedback from the parents when
25:12
we did a dry run because literally children were very
25:16
excited to see their teachers on the Zoom right and also seeing
25:21
their other friends on the Zoom right.
25:25
And from 4th day onwards, we just continued with online
25:29
curriculum. The challenge were was children
25:32
below 2 years old, right? Because really at that time
25:36
parents do not want to have a screen time for their children,
25:40
right? So what do we do?
25:42
How do we stay connected with the parents?
25:44
How do we keep them engaged? So what we did is we did a lot
25:48
of recordings in the classroom with the teachers like teacher
25:53
is doing activity, music and movement or Wonder time.
25:56
One Wonder Time 2 activities get recorded those and we send it to
26:00
parents at home, right? Just for children to watch.
26:05
Interesting enough, surprising enough, children were engaged
26:09
because they know their teacher, right?
26:11
They were. That does surprise me.
26:12
Yeah, yeah, it did surprise me, too.
26:14
They were very, very like, you know, excited to see their
26:20
teacher in the classroom. So it did.
26:24
And then we did a lot of improvising on it where I have
26:28
had my teachers record the story times and we would send those
26:32
recordings to parents so that they can, you know, play it at
26:36
night. During night time, they can hear
26:38
their children telling the story.
26:40
So we continued to innovate. We did innovation in the events
26:44
also. We created literally the
26:48
activity packets every week to send home for children, right?
26:54
So parents will come pick up the packet, do it at home with their
26:59
children. And that's how we survived.
27:01
And slowly, slowly we started inviting children based on the
27:06
regulation come to school. And you know, we rammed up by I
27:12
remember by September of 2021, I think we had about 70 or 80%
27:19
families who were attending. And I was able to keep pretty
27:22
much, I would say more than 99% of my families before I closed
27:27
all of them returned. So that that was a great, I
27:32
think my team did a great job in continuously keeping the parents
27:36
engaged through online activities by sending packets
27:39
from even we used to create event packets to send home for
27:44
children. Were you able to charge either
27:49
full or partial tuition to families while you were doing
27:51
the online? Learning.
27:53
So for online learning, we did a partial charging about 60 to 70%
27:57
and then gradually they started coming, coming back online.
28:01
So absolutely it was a partial charging.
28:03
Well, and this was probably another area where your tech
28:06
background was helpful. You weren't afraid of the
28:09
technology. We're quite familiar and
28:11
comfortable with it. Yeah, absolutely.
28:13
And my team was also like, OK, what is she going to do now?
28:17
Because they were scared about their job, Literally like,
28:20
what's going to happen? Am I going to lose my job or
28:22
not? Right.
28:23
And once we started with online program, my director work was
28:27
like Sima, I sell you to from today, like how well you
28:31
executed the online prog program.
28:33
I never thought we will be able to do it.
28:36
And I said, yeah, absolutely. All of us did this together.
28:41
So you became sort of a test case within Primrose for people
28:47
to look at and say here's something.
28:49
To receive and yeah and absolutely.
28:51
Then I started spreading it to my neighbouring Primrose
28:54
schools, right. I started sharing my template
28:57
like how can you also implement the similar way?
29:01
So couple of schools at that time we had Primrose School of
29:04
Livermore pleasant and open. And then I even shared like I
29:10
would let them log in, you know, in my online sessions, their
29:13
teacher can see how my teachers are executing the online
29:16
curriculum. I shared all the tablets with
29:18
them and that's how they even continue to run online program
29:24
for their promos families. And I think you mentioned before
29:29
we went live on this interview that you were recently speaking
29:32
at National Primrose event. Was it on something tech related
29:35
or something else? Completely different.
29:38
So I also, I'm part of ECECI, don't know if you're part of
29:43
it's early care and education consortium.
29:46
And they do advocacy programs for first state, I mean first
29:50
state. So Primrose, I represent all
29:54
Primrose schools in the state of California for advocacy programs
29:59
through ECEC. So what we usually do is ECC is
30:05
very engaged and active in all childcare bills that the
30:08
government is currently working on.
30:10
For example, you must have heard of universal pre kindergarten,
30:15
the state bill AB 1:30 that was passed in 2021.
30:19
So now we have a transitional kindergarten, which is a public
30:23
program for four year old, right?
30:26
So I was heavily invested because I just feel like, you
30:30
know, we just started riding the COVID wave.
30:33
We were still surviving the COVID wave in 2020 and then
30:37
suddenly the Bill 130 became a reality and it has severely
30:41
impacted the revenue of many community providers for a four
30:45
year old programs right in COVID we heard lot of childcare
30:50
centres follows. It's very disheartening to see
30:53
that. And then, you know, with the new
30:57
wave of universal pre pre kindergarten, I see it has
31:01
created unexpected and unintended impact on many
31:07
childcare providers, right? So you know, I have done a lot
31:13
of advocacy work. For example, I've been to state
31:15
capital to meet senators and assembly members to educate them
31:19
on the impact of transitional kindergarten, right?
31:23
And we are currently advocating for mixed delivery programs.
31:27
So 2 mixed delivery programs, what we are looking forward to
31:31
is that even the private providers are allowed to
31:38
participate in the public system.
31:41
So that way I. Haven't heard this.
31:43
Yet, Yeah, yeah. So we are, we're working on it.
31:46
I think a couple of states have implemented mixed delivery
31:48
programs. For example, Colorado is a win
31:51
for ECC for mixed delivery programs.
31:53
So with the main slavery program, what will happen is
31:57
every parent of a four year old will have a choice whether they
32:01
want to opt for a public program or opt for private 4 year old
32:09
program throughout your system. And will there be any
32:15
opportunity for the government to contribute to the funding of
32:19
that through the private sector? So funding would be in terms of
32:24
providing vouchers to parents, right?
32:27
They can spend it at, you know, private programs if that works
32:31
out for them because many of the transitional kindergarten
32:35
programs are half they only they may not work out for full time
32:38
parents. I also heard stories where many
32:43
schools don't even have after school programs.
32:45
So the child spends 3 hour in the morning in ATK program and
32:48
the child has to be burst to another location for after
32:51
school program. May not be the right choice for
32:54
a four year old because you know, four years are 4 year old,
32:59
they are not ready for elementary grades yet, right?
33:03
And you know, I've like a lot of rebound effects I have seen as
33:07
well in terms of elementary classroom setups are different
33:12
child not being able to push a bathroom door and all of that.
33:16
So yeah, I mean, I have been actively engaged in advocacy
33:20
work. We are also working on couple of
33:22
other things, for example, improvising our state licensing
33:26
process in the state of California.
33:29
So at the national conference, yes, absolutely.
33:32
I I was talking about the advocacy work that I have done
33:38
in the past four years in our state of California.
33:42
This information about the, what do you call it, mixed delivery
33:46
program for the transitional kindergarten is really
33:48
promising. I've talked to a lot of owners
33:51
of child care centers in California, and this is a big
33:53
problem. A lot of them have lost a rather
33:55
significant portion of their student population.
33:58
If you were to guess, what would you think the timeline is for
34:01
some of these changes coming in? Well, at the moment, I would say
34:07
in general, advocacy programs are very slow, right?
34:11
The expansion timeline for transitional Kindergarten E was
34:15
from 2020 to 2020, five 26, right?
34:19
So it's still in progress. It's hard to put the timeline
34:25
when this will be a reality. Specifically now we have a lot
34:28
of budget constraints in the state of California.
34:32
Yeah. Well, hopefully there's more
34:37
good news to come on that front. I know that that would
34:39
positively affect a lot of child care centers there in
34:42
California. And to be honest, not all of us
34:45
who are private providers, we need funding for infrastructure
34:48
because we already have those infrastructure.
34:50
We already have classrooms for four year old.
34:53
Right. And this is something that I've
34:55
heard from a lot of folks who own a child care center is,
34:59
yeah, the state wanted to take this over, but they didn't have
35:01
the teachers, they didn't have the facilities ready for this.
35:04
We have those things, right? It just took our kids and moved
35:07
them somewhere else. And they're not ready for it.
35:09
They're not set up for it. They're not getting the
35:11
education and the support that they.
35:12
Need yeah and those children are not ready to sit on a bench and
35:17
do the worksheets. They are more play based, right.
35:20
They thrive in experience based environment which we can
35:23
provide. Our program is very quality, you
35:28
know, high quality program. No, I'm curious, you know, you,
35:33
you opened the one center and you, you had it fully staffed
35:36
there at the beginning and you open a second center and you
35:38
were able to staff that. Now you've got two more centers
35:41
that are coming, you know, roughly in the next year or so.
35:45
It's still, from what everybody's telling me, a pretty
35:48
tight labor market. I'm curious what it is that
35:51
you're doing so well to find good folks and to hold on to
35:55
them. What are some strategies that
35:57
you have found work to recruit and retain folks?
36:03
Sure. I think that's yes.
36:07
As I mentioned we, I get majority of my talent through
36:11
Carrier plug, right. And through Carrier Plug we do
36:14
posting on all different job boards in the class door, like
36:18
you name it, Google jobs and all of that.
36:23
Then identifying right candidate is extremely important, right?
36:28
Because I want to hire someone who is really passionate about
36:33
childcare field, right? To be a teacher in a childcare
36:37
environment, yes, you have to have certain units, right?
36:41
And some, many times I get a regime from where they, they
36:46
didn't have a time to complete those units, but they do have an
36:50
experience working in childcare centres, right?
36:54
The, and I would take them why? Because they have been working
36:59
in a childcare for last couple of years, right?
37:02
They're still continue to come back to that field in the sense
37:06
that they're still looking for a job in the same field, right?
37:10
I could have a teacher with a bachelor's degree, but you know,
37:13
many times I hire new teachers. I'm very off front and open
37:17
about them. That great you have a childcare
37:20
education and background, but I know you were young, just like
37:24
when I was young, I was exploring myself what I really
37:27
want to do and it's OK to have that.
37:29
You know, this is the time you should have it.
37:32
So I give them different opportunities as support teacher
37:35
and so on. And I see them for six next 6 to
37:39
one year. Like what kind of passion that
37:41
they are showing. I think most important thing is
37:44
anyone having the growth mindset, right?
37:47
And it's easy to see that once they start working right?
37:52
How much engaged they are, what initiatives they are taking and
37:55
so on. So different ways I parse my
37:58
resumes. Some come with all the units,
38:01
lot of education, lot of experience.
38:04
Lot of experience is important to me because it just talks
38:07
about their passion, right? Because you have done something
38:10
for 3-4 years or five years and you're still looking for a job
38:13
in the same area, that means you really like what you're doing.
38:16
Otherwise you cannot survive in this field for next for the last
38:20
five years and you're still looking for a job, right?
38:23
For the newcomers, first time coming into a child care, I have
38:26
a very different approach, right?
38:28
I give them different opportunities and you know, I'm
38:31
always assessing their interest, whether this is the field for
38:35
them or not, right? And sometimes I hire teacher
38:38
without any background and we cultivate them into great
38:42
teachers. To me, if they don't have a
38:44
child care units, yes, we do have primrose trainings and then
38:48
I immediately enroll them in the university and colleges.
38:51
I pay for their tuition. So even while they are working,
38:55
they can continue to finish their education because a lot of
38:58
the time challenge for them is they're even still struggling to
39:02
pay the rent. They don't have extra dollar to
39:05
go to Community College and pay for their education.
39:09
So I have an HR person, you know, she just takes care of all
39:14
the training for the teacher as well as making sure they're
39:22
completing their units. Also, you know, by going to
39:25
Community College or any online programs.
39:27
So I cultivate them on my team. I have an education coach who
39:31
constantly, constantly work with them one-on-one, right?
39:35
As soon as I hire them for the first week, they don't even go
39:39
to the classrooms, right? They finish all the tricks,
39:42
right? Second week, I have my education
39:45
hold their hand and sit down with them and more like, OK, you
39:50
learnt all these thing online, let's let's put it into
39:53
implementation, right? I want to make sure I provide
39:56
them the right tool before they go in the classroom because if
40:00
they don't have the right tool to be successful in the
40:02
classroom, I'll set them up for the failure on the first day.
40:05
I tell them, OK, go in the classroom and figure everything
40:08
out. It just doesn't work in
40:10
childcare fee and lot of the turnover that happens in a
40:15
childcare like I did a lot of studies because as you see, my
40:19
background is very different, right?
40:21
In engineering, the national turnover rate is about 10%.
40:26
Right. But when you come to childcare,
40:28
it's 35% and sometimes it just goes beyond that, right?
40:33
Depending on, you know, external event that's happening around,
40:36
for example, COVID. So for me, it was a big
40:40
adjustment period, right? To learn that like in tech, I
40:44
wouldn't change. Like usually people stay around
40:47
for two years to four years. They wait for their stock
40:50
options to waste before they move on to the next job.
40:54
They think about a lot of things, OK, what kind of company
40:57
I'm going for, what technology they work on, what, like what
41:01
new skill level I'm going to build by, you know, changing
41:04
this job. So there's a lot of thinking
41:05
that goes behind before changing the job in childcare.
41:09
It's not similar, right? So then I did a lot of research
41:14
on why this is happening in the childcare fee, right?
41:17
And three things that I came up with.
41:20
Number one is the stress in the job.
41:23
Number 2 is advancement opportunities.
41:27
And #3 is obviously this is not a high paying job, right?
41:32
So compensation is the key. But at the same time, yes, I was
41:37
thinking, yeah, I understand all these things.
41:39
But there are there are folks who want to be in childcare.
41:43
They want to work in childcare. Why do they want to work in a
41:45
childcare field? They want to work because of the
41:49
emotional benefit, right that they get from this profession.
41:54
They are the ones who wants to work with children.
41:57
They really like. Like, like working with
41:59
children. Compensation is very tangible.
42:03
I would say because I can easily fix it, providing competitive
42:06
salary, providing the best benefits, right?
42:10
But other than that, how do we work on the stress level?
42:13
Because that is extremely important.
42:15
It doesn't matter the compensation, you know, the best
42:18
benefits, that's not the only thing that's going to keep them
42:21
around, right? The other is how do we work with
42:26
the stress, right? How we can reduce teacher
42:29
stress? So a lot of things for stress,
42:31
as I told you before, they go into the classroom, we give them
42:35
a lot of training period. We want to send them to the
42:37
classroom with the right too, right.
42:40
And on top of that, like usually childcare centre runs with one
42:45
director, one assistant director.
42:47
But I have three to four assistant directors in my
42:49
school, right? Why are they around?
42:52
They are there to help teachers, right?
42:56
Every teacher has a walkie with them.
42:58
They are in the classroom, they are in ratio.
43:00
If they need any help, call us on walkie.
43:03
Somebody would step in and help you.
43:05
It could be as simple as I'm just so frustrated with this
43:08
child. OK, no, doesn't matter.
43:11
Just go take a 10 minute break. I'll work with the child, right?
43:14
So for them knowing that we have that support, it goes a long
43:19
way. And that's constantly I get as a
43:21
feedback from my teacher. I love to work here because of
43:25
the support I receive working in this environment where we are
43:30
not running the way like OK, my director is already in a ratio
43:36
in the classroom or my assistant directors are in a ratio.
43:39
Yes, it does happen when tough times like flu season, we have
43:43
5-6 call outs because you know teachers are sick.
43:46
Those are the days. They may happen but majority of
43:49
the time my director and three to four assistant directors are
43:52
outside. They are on the ground and their
43:55
job is to help the teachers constantly.
43:59
You know, I I love so much of what you just said there seema
44:02
there's it shows a real dedication to your employees
44:06
mental health, their happiness. You know, how do you help them
44:10
with the stress of the job? You talked a lot about the
44:13
investments that you make in educating them, providing the
44:18
paying for the education for them, for, you know, those
44:20
people who are interested in, you know, sort of making those
44:24
advancements in their career. And I have to think, you know,
44:26
this is a a big part of why you've been so successful with
44:31
your Primrose franchises. And, you know, as we think about
44:35
sort of the success of the business, you know, obviously to
44:38
keep your doors open, you got to keep an eye on the bottom line,
44:42
right? That profit and loss statement,
44:43
you're not running a, a, a charity.
44:45
And so, you know, as business owners, there's sort of two
44:49
levers that we can pull to, to affect that.
44:51
It's like we can do something creative to increase sales.
44:55
We can do something creative to, you know, decrease expenses.
44:58
As you think about those two levers there, any stories come
45:02
to mind about particularly interesting things that you've
45:05
tried along those? Yeah, absolutely.
45:07
I mean, it's very common to think what you're saying when
45:11
I'm telling what I do for my staff.
45:12
But truly speaking, what I teach my leadership team is we have
45:16
two customers, parent and staff. Both are our customers, and we
45:21
must pay attention to both because childcare is all about
45:25
trust. We want happy parents.
45:28
And what do parents wants? They want happy teachers, right?
45:33
If teachers are happy, they can. You know, it's important.
45:37
Teachers are happy. They are engaged, they are doing
45:39
activities throughout the day with the children in the
45:42
classroom. If the child is happy, parent is
45:45
happy. So it's a circle.
45:47
I treat my parents and staff both as customer.
45:51
Staff has to be happy. If I'm experiencing constant
45:54
turnover and struggling with the retention, ultimately my parents
45:58
are not going to be happy, right?
46:01
So it's, it's, it's, and again, it goes back to, as you're
46:06
saying, when we think about monetary aspect, when I do
46:09
tuition increase year over year, right?
46:11
I'm able to do it because I have that trust from the parents.
46:14
My retention rate for the parent is, you know, more than 95%.
46:20
Most of the time I lose parents not because they are not happy
46:23
with the program. Most cases they are moving out
46:26
of the area or their children are graduating from pre
46:30
kindergarten and heading to elementary school and that's
46:33
exactly what I want. If I'm losing my teacher, not
46:36
because they do not like the program.
46:39
Again, some external factors that they are moving and leaving
46:43
my school. So it's all about service
46:46
excellence, providing better services to parents and
46:50
providing good services to staff.
46:53
Yeah, I think what you just said about not losing many parents
46:56
other to them, they're moving out of the area or the kids are
46:59
graduating says a lot about the quality of the program that
47:02
you're building there. But I want to shoot.
47:05
Yeah, and absolutely. And even if I lost parents to TK
47:07
programs, right, not a single parents have complained that you
47:12
don't have ATK program or anything like that.
47:15
It's always like we love your school, we love your curriculum.
47:19
But I do understand that, you know, I'm competing against
47:23
something that is free. And also I can understand
47:27
parents mindset that OK, now it's not K to 12, but TK to 12
47:32
as elementary grade. So they may think OK, my child
47:35
starts ATK program and he's going to or she's going to be
47:38
lifelong friends and survive in elementary grades, right?
47:42
So parent have not left because they have been unhappy.
47:46
Let's shift gears for a moment. See, I would love to hear about
47:49
maybe a particular challenge either personally or
47:51
professionally that you went through, how you overcame that
47:55
and some of the lessons that you learned coming through the other
47:57
side. Lots of challenges, right?
48:01
How do I? Pick one.
48:02
Lots of challenges not to pick one from, right?
48:05
Coming from a very different background, going into a very
48:08
different field, opening a childcare centre.
48:11
Like you know, for me personally, I never managed this
48:15
many employees, right. You know, lots of learning in
48:19
terms of labour laws, in terms of HR, let's lots of learning in
48:24
providing service excellence to parents, teacher.
48:28
Even learning about this high turnover rate was a big
48:32
challenge for me, right? But I think the keys, as long as
48:36
you're committed, you are striving for improvement and
48:40
you're dedicated, it's OK to fail, but learn from your
48:44
failure and think about how you're going to do it better.
48:47
Next step, right? It, it boils down back to COVID
48:52
times, which I just mentioned to you, how challenging they were.
48:56
Then we had universal pre kindergarten or transitional
49:00
kindergarten. Again, another challenge.
49:03
But if you're committed, if you're passionate, you know for
49:07
sure you're going to overcome. That's great.
49:11
Seema. I just have one more question
49:13
for you. But before I ask it, I wanted to
49:15
let people know the best way to get in touch with you.
49:17
What would that be? Lots of ways, emails, phone.
49:22
I only have one phone because, you know, I don't carry multiple
49:25
phones. Like my two daughters also have
49:28
the same number. I want to make sure that I'm
49:30
always reachable. So phone, e-mail, you know,
49:33
those are the best way to reach at me.
49:36
What's the e-mail address that they can reach you?
49:37
At So excuse me, I have two emails.
49:42
You can jot down any one of them.
49:44
See my PSV log lane.com. And we'll be sure to put that in
49:49
the show notes, folks. So last question I have for you
49:52
Seema, is I'm kind of curious to get your take on it, especially
49:55
with, you know, the involvement that you have with some of the
49:58
national organizations. I think you would have a good
49:59
perspective on this. What are some of the big changes
50:02
that you see are coming to the childcare industry here in the
50:06
next few years? I think transitional
50:13
kindergarten is a game changer. I think we all, most childcare
50:19
providers would look into serving more younger age group
50:22
children, right? Unless mixed delivery becomes a
50:27
reality in our state, right? So we would be looking into
50:33
serving more younger age group children, maybe zero to four
50:37
year olds, right? So current providers, I already
50:41
know they are changing their infrastructure, right, to serve
50:45
more younger children, right. And that's a trend that has
50:48
started since 2023 and I think that will stay for next couple
50:52
of years. And I think that's about
50:54
challenging. I don't think everybody realizes
50:57
that providing infant care is considerably more expensive than
51:01
it is for the older kids just because of the state mandated
51:04
ratios. You have to have more employees
51:07
per number of students, which raises the cost of that care.
51:10
And parents are already struggling to pay, you know, for
51:13
some of those older kids. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
51:17
Because of the introduction. Excuse me, can I just stick?
51:25
Yeah, transitional kindergarten is it's a game changer.
51:29
It's it's introduced a lot of wrinkles in, in different ways.
51:32
Go ahead. Absolutely, and I have written a
51:34
white paper on unintended consequences of transitional
51:38
kindergarten. If you like, I can share it with
51:40
you. But absolutely right, it has
51:44
created impact on providers as well as families and children,
51:49
all of us, right, Because it's just not the providers, but
51:52
families and children as well. Everybody's impacted.
51:56
As you were mentioning, providers are forced to serve
51:59
more younger age group because of the stringent teacher child
52:03
ratio requirements. You know, we are increasing the
52:05
tuition so it's putting additional burden on the
52:08
families, right? Also, even the staff, they are
52:14
worried, you know, about their job, right?
52:19
Is my pro if like my school is going to close down the pre
52:23
kindergarten program, what will happen to their job?
52:25
Am I going to have to teach more younger age groups?
52:27
Should I look for a job outside? Like, you know, those are the
52:31
impact on the staff and like, you know, I think across the
52:39
board serving more two and three-year olds in terms of
52:43
profitability, maybe it's a workable solution, but serving
52:47
younger than two because ratios are one to four compared to 1 to
52:51
12 ratios. I think more and more childcare
52:55
we'll see in the next upcoming year serving more twos and
52:58
threes. Yeah, Seema, I want to be the
53:02
first one to thank you for sharing both your time and your
53:04
story with us today. I really appreciate it.
53:07
OK. Thank you.