Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / What Should I Buy? - Porsche vs Corvette: The Everyman Sports Car Showdown (Part 2)

Transcript

What Should I Buy? - Porsche vs Corvette: The Everyman Sports Car Showdown (Part 2) · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Our panel of break fix petrolheads are back for another rousing
• 0:03
  what should I buy debate.
• 0:05
  Using unique shopping criteria, they are challenged to find our first time
• 0:08
  collector the best vehicle that will make their friends go, Where'd you get that?
• 0:13
  or What the hell is wrong with you?
• 0:15
  at the next Cars and Coffee.
• 0:19
  When we talk about Porsche rivalries, there's always one that
• 0:23
  jumps immediately to the surface.
• 0:25
  Do you choose the technologically savvy space age Porsche 959 or the raw and
• 0:30
  exhilarating passion of the Ferrari F40?
• 0:33
  But for those of us that are everyday enthusiasts with more modest budgets,
• 0:37
  those aren't the kinds of cars we're interested in collecting.
• 0:41
  Right, Mark?
• 0:41
  Absolutely right, Eric.
• 0:42
  So picking up from our previous What Should I Buy episode, we looked at
• 0:46
  the Corvette as the natural rival.
• 0:48
  So the nine 11 has the every man's sports car.
• 0:51
  And in this episode, we're going to focus on the 60 years of the nine 11.
• 0:55
  We're joined by Don Wieberg from garage style magazine, along with William
• 0:59
  big money Ross from the exotic car marketplace and Ryan Barkie, formerly
• 1:03
  of the steering committee podcast.
• 1:05
  Now part of the road show pod, along with David Milton, former
• 1:09
  race engineer at the Nuremberg.
• 1:10
  and president of M.
• 1:11
  I.
• 1:12
  E.
• 1:12
  Racing.
• 1:12
  Then there's me.
• 1:14
  Who am I?
• 1:14
  I'm Mark Schenck, our resident 90s car guy and de facto bring a trailer data analyst.
• 1:20
  Thanks, Mark.
• 1:21
  And like all What Should I Buy episodes, we have some shopping criteria.
• 1:25
  So get ready, folks.
• 1:26
  It's time to slick back your hair.
• 1:28
  Press your Paisley button down, lace up those Oxfords,
• 1:31
  and loosen up your checkbooks, because we're shopping for 9 11s.
• 1:35
  And in this episode, our panel of extraordinary Petroheads are challenged
• 1:39
  to find our first time collector something that will make their friends go, ja,
• 1:43
  das ist gut, at the next Cars Coffee.
• 1:46
  So welcome back to the show, guys.
• 1:47
  Thanks for being back.
• 1:48
  Thank you.
• 1:49
  Thank you very much.
• 1:50
  Isn't that dunker?
• 1:51
  Yeah.
• 1:51
  Dunker.
• 1:52
  But I patched now.
• 1:53
  Don, I'm wearing my eye patch.
• 1:55
  Why are I patches?
• 1:56
  German pirates?
• 1:58
  They're like, they don't even have much of an ocean going history.
• 2:01
  Really?
• 2:01
  No, they don't.
• 2:02
  They don't.
• 2:03
  It's a very small coastline.
• 2:04
  That was the Irish and the Swedes.
• 2:05
  Last time we got together, we talked about Corvette.
• 2:08
  We really did a stellar job at condensing eight generations, 70
• 2:12
  years of Corvette into that episode.
• 2:15
  And so we look to do this again with Porsche with a
• 2:18
  slightly shorter history, right?
• 2:20
  The 911 celebrating its 60th birthday.
• 2:22
  The 901 came out in 1964 and it too has gone through Eight different
• 2:27
  iterations not to be outdone by Corvette, even though it had basically
• 2:31
  a 10 year head start on Porsche.
• 2:34
  We're going to talk about the other side of the equation, because as we alluded
• 2:37
  to the last time, the natural rivalry here in the States, if you're looking for
• 2:41
  that, every man's sports car, something that you can take to the office, you
• 2:45
  can run around with up in the mountains.
• 2:47
  You can have fun with, you can take to the track race on
• 2:50
  Sunday, go to work on Monday.
• 2:52
  It's Porsche and Corvette at the end of the day.
• 2:54
  I gotta tell you I heard I heard Eric's accent from the east coast over there
• 2:57
  kick up And man, I gotta tell you he never says it right every time he says
• 3:01
  it He says, you know, it's Porsche versus Corvette And I gotta tell you my little
• 3:05
  German friend over here is having a fit because he says the versus Corvette is
• 3:09
  silent It's just say Porsche you're done
• 3:13
  I don't think there's a lot of cross shopping.
• 3:15
  Is that what Heinrich says you can ask anybody The 911 is the
• 3:19
  finest motor vehicle in the world.
• 3:21
  Just ask me.
• 3:22
  I will tell you.
• 3:23
  If I do not tell you, you can ask Porsche themselves and they will tell you.
• 3:27
  They are wonderful cars.
• 3:28
  Wunderbar.
• 3:31
  Kicking off 901s go all the way back to the long nose cars,
• 3:37
  kind of like the C1 Corvette.
• 3:38
  Are people collecting these cars?
• 3:41
  Oh, you mean you want to talk about the Porsche Beetle?
• 3:44
  Is that what you're talking about?
• 3:47
  Because that's where we really leave off.
• 3:48
  It's a Porsche Beetle.
• 3:50
  Well, someone's always collecting something.
• 3:52
  It doesn't matter.
• 3:53
  So I mean, someone's going to collect them.
• 3:54
  I guess it just depends the reasoning behind collecting it.
• 3:57
  Is it something that had to do with their childhood?
• 3:59
  Something to do with just something they saw?
• 4:02
  Seeing a poster?
• 4:03
  One of those things.
• 4:03
  I mean, someone's always going to collect something.
• 4:05
  But to what extent is it key?
• 4:06
  And what are they doing with them?
• 4:07
  Are they collecting them or storing them?
• 4:08
  They collected to drive them.
• 4:09
  They just collected them to hoard them in their backyard.
• 4:11
  And I don't want to go down the singer rabbit hole right away.
• 4:15
  And the reason I'm like, are people actually collecting legitimate
• 4:18
  air cooled early 901s and 9 11s?
• 4:21
  It's because singers producing replica early nine 11s, what are people buying?
• 4:27
  And we'll probably diverge into singer conversation more than once on this
• 4:32
  episode, but the question is, are there really a lot of nine Oh ones?
• 4:35
  I mean, William, this is really your area air cooled Porsches out there in
• 4:39
  circulation or people asking for those, or are they looking for something else?
• 4:42
  The person is looking for a nine Oh one.
• 4:44
  Someone's going to have a lot of other Porsches.
• 4:47
  And again, it kind of goes back to what we said before in regards to Fats last
• 4:50
  episode, you know, it's like completing a collection of what they have currently.
• 4:53
  No, I don't think anyone wants one car, one car.
• 4:55
  All they're going, Oh, I'm going to get a 901.
• 4:57
  No, because it's one just cost restoration.
• 5:01
  Just me.
• 5:02
  I mean, everything.
• 5:02
  Finding Park.
• 5:03
  I mean, it's just all that goes with it.
• 5:04
  I'm with William on that.
• 5:05
  I think, you know, the short wheelbase 65 to 68, those are rounding out
• 5:09
  a collection, I think, but you know, I don't know, that's just me.
• 5:12
  There's a lot of personal preference in those.
• 5:15
  As we all know, 911s have a tendency throughout the years from the sixties all
• 5:19
  the way till now, all look the same in essence, that same shape and everything.
• 5:23
  So it's not really like you're going these big styling cues, like say on a
• 5:27
  vet, where you're going from a 63 split window to, you know, a 64, you know, that
• 5:31
  kind of stuff going from a C2 to a C3 or C3 to C4, that kind of stuff where it
• 5:36
  completely changed, totally different car.
• 5:38
  Now let's see the same shape and style throughout the year, especially all the
• 5:42
  way up till the ugly ass nine, nine, six with those eggplant headlight.
• 5:47
  I've never heard them call the eggplant.
• 5:49
  All right.
• 5:50
  We're like three minutes into this.
• 5:51
  We've already talked about singer and like fried egg headlights and like,
• 5:56
  Jesus, this went off right away.
• 5:59
  Took a left turn.
• 6:00
  When you get away from the real, real early cars, 64 to 68, and you start to
• 6:05
  move into 69, 70, 71, all the way to 72, especially free government bumpers
• 6:11
  and seat belts and all those kinds of regulations that came about in 73 and
• 6:15
  74, you had variants of the 9 11, right?
• 6:18
  You had the E, the T and the S.
• 6:20
  And especially the S the 72 S was one of those cars.
• 6:23
  That was like the halo car, even in the eighties, like, Oh my God, you have a
• 6:27
  72 S, you know, lightweight, the sport model versus the touring or the economy.
• 6:33
  That's what the T and the E stood for.
• 6:35
  It's really difficult because a lot of people will consider 64 to 89, just 911.
• 6:41
  But in reality, you have to look at the actual part numbers.
• 6:44
  So 901, 64 to basically 73 ish, then it changes over to 911 and 930 and so on.
• 6:51
  I got to tell you, I think it has to do with a purity thing.
• 6:53
  You look at people with 356s, there's no other car in the world.
• 6:56
  If you're a 356 guy, that's it.
• 6:57
  What is 911?
• 6:58
  We don't know.
• 6:59
  356 is it.
• 7:00
  But it's such a pure car to drive, and when you get in a 9 0 1 or an
• 7:04
  early nine 11, you experience that.
• 7:06
  But just like Corvette with all these iterations, yeah, Porsche always kinda
• 7:10
  looked the same and always had that sort of teardrop look, but there were
• 7:14
  so much evolution under the skin that made each nine 11 a little better,
• 7:19
  a little better, a little better.
• 7:21
  Very similar to Corvette.
• 7:22
  What 9 0 1 might be faced with is a little bit of what C one
• 7:26
  and even C two to a degree are faced with, which is drivability.
• 7:29
  9 11 has evolved so much over the years, you're going to go on a rally.
• 7:33
  You're going to cruise the mountains of Malibu.
• 7:36
  You're going to have fun.
• 7:37
  You got your other little Porsche friends out there with you.
• 7:39
  You're going to hit a few little beer stops on the way.
• 7:41
  You want the 901 with the crappy radio and no air conditioning and the rough
• 7:46
  ride of that short wheelbase suspension, or would you rather have, even God
• 7:52
  forbid, I should bring it up, the 996.
• 7:55
  infinitely better car, infinitely better engineered, infinitely better driving
• 7:59
  experience, infinitely worse interior.
• 8:01
  I don't know.
• 8:01
  Oh, yeah.
• 8:03
  The interiors are pretty.
• 8:04
  Yeah.
• 8:05
  Hey, it's coming into its own now all these years later.
• 8:07
  I truly believe it.
• 8:08
  It is coming into its own as it should.
• 8:10
  It was undervalued, but the interior was pretty bad.
• 8:12
  Yeah, it was.
• 8:13
  We'll get to the nine, nine soon.
• 8:14
  Yeah.
• 8:14
  For sure.
• 8:15
  Don makes an interesting point.
• 8:16
  I'm involved with the Colorado Grand, which is a thousand mile pre 1960 or
• 8:20
  1960 and earlier, I guess, road rally, a thousand miles in five days in Colorado.
• 8:24
  And you talk about the 356s, 356 is not enough car for the Grand.
• 8:29
  No.
• 8:29
  So most of the 356s you see anymore are Emory cars.
• 8:32
  And I kind of feel like that's the same deal with the early 911s.
• 8:35
  It's horses for courses.
• 8:36
  What are you looking to do with the thing?
• 8:37
  The valuable Porsches are the rare cars or the cars that are
• 8:40
  exceptionally good to drive.
• 8:41
  Then you get sort of where the Venn diagram connects and those
• 8:44
  are the really special cars.
• 8:45
  You said that the 356s and the 901s by relation have.
• 8:49
  Hubble on the Colorado grand, is it just, they have a power deficit and that's it.
• 8:53
  And just for the record.
• 8:54
  So the grand is 60 and earlier.
• 8:55
  So, you know, we're talking three 56s.
• 8:57
  Yeah.
• 8:58
  Okay.
• 8:58
  But yeah, you know, it's just elevation.
• 9:01
  Altitude is your enemy and it's a real thing.
• 9:03
  You're a pass at 12, 000 feet, 14, 000 feet.
• 9:05
  That car's got half the power that says it has.
• 9:08
  That's a real issue.
• 9:09
  You know, some of those old Ferraris don't have that problem, but the Porsches do.
• 9:12
  The goal wings, no problem.
• 9:14
  Perfect grand car.
• 9:15
  Wouldn't stop me from wanting one or owning one.
• 9:17
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  You know, again, what are you going to use it for?
• 9:19
  Probably not the rally car for you.
• 9:21
  Around town, whatever.
• 9:22
  Nice Sunday drive.
• 9:23
  Great car.
• 9:23
  You get everything else.
• 9:24
  It's like the whole 9 11 versus 9 12 argument later.
• 9:27
  So much of the inherent goodness is in the 9 12, but it'll never be a 9 11.
• 9:31
  He might've just lost his Porsche card with everybody that's listening.
• 9:34
  Talking about 9 12s.
• 9:38
  Hey, I can't afford one of those either anymores.
• 9:40
  So I guess it's, what are you looking for?
• 9:42
  Well, we're all looking for a 73 Carrera RS 2.
• 9:46
  7 liter.
• 9:46
  Absolutely.
• 9:47
  Yeah.
• 9:47
  I think those early cars have a little bit of room for investment, but.
• 9:52
  I haven't seen too many 72, nine 11 S's up for sale.
• 9:56
  Well, the production volumes were so low back then.
• 9:58
  Right.
• 9:59
  So you have to take that into perspective, but your nine 11 S, which
• 10:04
  was produced 69 to 73, they've had.
• 10:08
  Maybe 30 odd go up for auction on bring a trailer.
• 10:10
  In the last 12 months, half of those transacted and half of them didn't,
• 10:15
  and the price ranges on the ones that transacted were from 70 K to 240 k.
• 10:22
  I've got a good buddy with the 72 s Euro spec.
• 10:26
  He's in the uk.
• 10:27
  I rode with him around in that.
• 10:30
  To me, for the older cars, I think the S is like the driver's car and the
• 10:35
  other cars are the collector's cars, but maybe that's a bias on my part.
• 10:38
  I really like them.
• 10:39
  I think they're spectacular looking cars.
• 10:42
  I've had the joy of riding in one.
• 10:44
  It was a little small for me.
• 10:45
  But it really, really was a cool experience.
• 10:48
  And growing up, my best friend, we were in baseball together.
• 10:51
  His father had a 356.
• 10:53
  I don't know what year it was.
• 10:54
  And so I kind of grew up around that 356.
• 10:57
  And I really, really liked that car too.
• 10:59
  But I noticed in that early nine 11, I thought, man, this is just a nice car.
• 11:03
  This is much, much better, more power.
• 11:05
  The sound is there.
• 11:06
  It's just a different car.
• 11:07
  I'm like a C1.
• 11:08
  I think, you know, the right color and, you know, with the right leather
• 11:12
  and this and that, we're like, yes, C1 is doable, but 901, I think the C1 I
• 11:17
  think the C1 edges it out a little bit.
• 11:20
  So I grew up with the early 9 11.
• 11:21
  However, like a lot of early 9 11s.
• 11:24
  It was heavily modified.
• 11:25
  It was made to look like a 78, nine 30.
• 11:28
  So we'll get into that.
• 11:30
  That's actually kind of the next generation of nine 11s.
• 11:33
  You ride in the later ones and you start to realize, okay, that evolution
• 11:36
  is really showing itself here.
• 11:38
  And do I really want to be, forgive the term, but do I want to be
• 11:41
  stuck with that early, early car?
• 11:43
  And I mean, let me ask you, is it going to get harder and
• 11:46
  harder to sell those early cars?
• 11:47
  Did it come back to William's point of, yeah, you'll be able to sell
• 11:51
  it someday, but it's really just going to go into a collection.
• 11:54
  The guy is not going to drive it.
• 11:55
  He's not going to be a real enthusiast.
• 11:56
  He just wants it to round out a certain aura of a collection or something
• 12:00
  like that, which I guess what I'm wondering is will 901 start losing
• 12:04
  value or will it take the Ferrari road and start to become much more valuable
• 12:09
  because there are so few of them.
• 12:10
  Because so many of them were converted into later model cars, et cetera.
• 12:14
  I think that's going to be interesting to see come the future.
• 12:17
  And if you think about it until 72 and 73, when the bigger
• 12:21
  motors started to come in bigger.
• 12:24
  Yeah.
• 12:24
  Yeah.
• 12:24
  And air quotes, right.
• 12:25
  2.
• 12:25
  4, 2.
• 12:26
  5, and then 2.
• 12:27
  7 liters.
• 12:27
  Those early cars.
• 12:28
  2.
• 12:28
  0, 2.
• 12:30
  2, although everybody was mixed matching parts.
• 12:33
  Oh, you got an S, but you put E cams in it because of the lobing and, you know,
• 12:36
  all this kind of crazy performance stuff.
• 12:38
  It's a step above a three 56.
• 12:40
  You know, you're making a hundred, 120 horsepower instead of 65.
• 12:44
  Yeah.
• 12:45
  Okay.
• 12:45
  But the car's heavier, it's bigger, but it's the same principle.
• 12:48
  That was a cool thing about that is the similarities production wise on all
• 12:51
  those cars is you could interchange.
• 12:54
  And make that car yours.
• 12:55
  Now you personalize that car to such an extent.
• 12:58
  It was yours.
• 12:59
  That was the one thing, you know, you go out and use car market even now, but
• 13:02
  some years ago is when you found one is like, okay, well, you knew you're going
• 13:06
  to have to do something to it to get it to where you wanted it because that
• 13:09
  person personalized it so much because.
• 13:11
  You could, that was the thing.
• 13:13
  It wasn't like, you know, you kept it stock or it was like
• 13:15
  some things that everyone did.
• 13:17
  You could personalize the heck out of those things so much.
• 13:21
  Parts in abundance.
• 13:22
  It's not just personalization so much as a lot of that stemmed from
• 13:25
  grassroots motorsports, where you're looking for the advantage against
• 13:29
  the other guy with the nine 11 and somebody went, you know, the E cams.
• 13:34
  And the heads out of the T and if you make this weird Frankenstein combination,
• 13:38
  you'll get 10 more horsepower with these jets from the Webers, you
• 13:42
  know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:43
  Grassroots motorsport fueled a lot of those combinations, but
• 13:47
  they weren't factory sanctioned.
• 13:49
  I think the factory took a while to kind of catch up later.
• 13:51
  They were designing to a budget.
• 13:53
  Well, if you bought the E, it was the base model 911.
• 13:57
  If you bought the touring, the T.
• 13:59
  Then you've got these extra things like factory air or whatever it was, right?
• 14:03
  Which was an option in the S was the sport model.
• 14:05
  So there's a lot of that going on from a sales perspective, but I
• 14:08
  don't think they were quite yet thinking about the amateur drivers.
• 14:13
  Yes, they were competing that Lamar.
• 14:15
  They had been doing that with the three 56s and other cars before that point.
• 14:18
  They hadn't tuned in the same way that let's say Corvette did going.
• 14:22
  We're going to build a car for people to go have fun with.
• 14:25
  They were just building 911s to fuel the engineering program, the racing program.
• 14:29
  That's also a very German philosophy, right?
• 14:31
  And you got to think at that time where Americans were more, we're going
• 14:36
  to tune, we're going to change, we're going to modify and German culture,
• 14:39
  especially back then, I don't think it was natural for the average German
• 14:42
  person who bought a Porsche to say, I'm going to go out and change parts, right?
• 14:46
  It was probably looked down upon as like, Oh, you're taking
• 14:48
  away from the OEM, right?
• 14:50
  I'm sure there were a few people doing it here or there.
• 14:51
  But that tends to be more of an American thing, you know, and I think America has
• 14:56
  pushed that into the mainstream now where of course everybody does it globally.
• 15:00
  But I think, especially back then, if you were a German and you started
• 15:04
  modifying your Porsche, you know, your neighbor in Stuttgart would have looked
• 15:07
  and said, like, what are you doing?
• 15:08
  You bring up a good point too.
• 15:09
  It's a little tougher to get 10 horsepower out of a, an air cooled
• 15:12
  Porsche than it is like a Chevy small.
• 15:15
  You don't say look at the Chevy sideways.
• 15:20
  I mean, it's tough to stick another hamster in there.
• 15:22
  I think Ryan's right.
• 15:25
  Early long nose, nine 11 might still be a stretch and a struggle on
• 15:29
  something like the Colorado grand.
• 15:31
  And that's when you want to move into a 74 later, nine 11.
• 15:35
  How many 901s actually are there?
• 15:37
  These aren't the numbers pretty small or of them.
• 15:40
  Then there are nine 64.
• 15:41
  So I'm going to say that.
• 15:42
  Well, anymore, right?
• 15:43
  Thanks singer.
• 15:45
  We'll get to those.
• 15:45
  Do your point quick quiz for David and Ryan.
• 15:48
  Do you guys know why Portia had to stop using the nine Oh one
• 15:52
  moniker and switched to nine 11?
• 15:54
  Yes, I do.
• 15:55
  I do.
• 15:55
  David, go ahead.
• 15:56
  Tell us.
• 15:56
  Of course, it's because of Peugeot and Peugeot had this 901 was
• 16:00
  inside factory number or as they say, like a internal number and
• 16:05
  they did like a cease and desist.
• 16:07
  Basically, they changed it from 901 to 911 and it actually worked out better.
• 16:11
  I think for a Porsche.
• 16:12
  Can you imagine if they had kept that name?
• 16:14
  Would it have the same panache?
• 16:15
  I don't know that it would.
• 16:16
  Oh, Portia being Portia, I'm sure they would have turned
• 16:18
  it to like a cold following.
• 16:20
  But yeah, I mean, it was probably a blessing in disguise.
• 16:22
  I didn't feel it at the time.
• 16:23
  It gives you an idea too, of how Portia has come along through the years.
• 16:28
  Back in the day, Peugeot was able to stand up and say, stop.
• 16:31
  You will not do that to us.
• 16:32
  We keep this zero.
• 16:33
  You do not, you go away.
• 16:35
  You stupid little German people.
• 16:36
  You.
• 16:37
  And now look at it, I don't think Peugeot could really, I mean, I don't
• 16:40
  know, maybe they could, but Porsche has become this huge corporation.
• 16:44
  And I'll add to that, that wasn't the first time that Porsche had tangled
• 16:47
  with Peugeot either, because rumors have it that they're the ones that
• 16:51
  put the old man in jail after the war.
• 16:53
  So hey, you know what?
• 16:54
  It's all good, right?
• 16:55
  Twice bitten.
• 16:58
  You remember the Continental name, I mean, going back to 356 and
• 17:01
  then they had to tango with Ford.
• 17:03
  And it was just one of those things where cease and desist and stop doing that.
• 17:06
  And again, now they're to a point, it's just like, if you want to
• 17:09
  go to court, let's go to court.
• 17:10
  So moving to the second half of that original 901, 911 generation, 1964.
• 17:15
  Tonight, 1889, we get the first body change, and as you guys said, you can
• 17:20
  always see the lines of the nine 11 through every generation that's come
• 17:25
  since the very first one in 1964.
• 17:27
  So if you think about it, it's very German, it's very iterative, just like
• 17:30
  you're developing software version one and version two in version three.
• 17:34
  But when you switch over in 74, because of the new regulations and the
• 17:38
  bigger bumpers and the safety stuff.
• 17:40
  It was sort of like C1 to C2.
• 17:42
  Yeah, it's still 911, but suddenly we got big bumpers and those butt cheeks
• 17:46
  in the back and those lights in the bumper and the headlights got bigger.
• 17:50
  And the car just physically got larger, although it kept the same silhouette.
• 17:55
  I think a lot of us, like we talked about C2 is the car we imprinted on
• 17:59
  or C4 is the car we imprinted on.
• 18:01
  Those 74 to 89, nine 11s there on everybody's wall.
• 18:05
  As a kid, you're like, God, it's a nine 11.
• 18:08
  You just know what it is, but sort of like Sano, does it still hold that same
• 18:12
  greatness compared to other nine 11?
• 18:14
  So the second gen nine 11, let's call it that.
• 18:17
  Is it still as good as, as it ever was?
• 18:20
  Like, I love it.
• 18:21
  There's such a great aftermarket for it.
• 18:23
  You can make it a genuinely light car.
• 18:25
  It's not that hard to get a 2, 500.
• 18:28
  Pound car out of it.
• 18:29
  There's a lot of different things you can do from a power perspective.
• 18:33
  I believe they flared the fenders out with the SC a little bit in the back.
• 18:36
  For me as a kid, that my little kid brain, when they flared
• 18:40
  the fenders, they were cool.
• 18:42
  It was like the older ones were not cool without those hips.
• 18:45
  You know, maybe I learned something about myself later in
• 18:47
  life, but those hips work for me.
• 18:49
  I'm a little biased.
• 18:50
  I owned one for a long time.
• 18:51
  It's one of my biggest regrets is not still having that car.
• 18:55
  It was so much fun to drive.
• 18:57
  It's very different driving experience than like even in a modern, very fast car.
• 19:02
  But it is, it's very analog, the brakes and in the steering and everything.
• 19:08
  I don't know.
• 19:08
  I, I think it's awesome.
• 19:09
  I think too, when it comes to that, if you'll forgive it, that second generation,
• 19:13
  if you can call it that 9 11, you started to become a lot more mainstream.
• 19:16
  Let's face it, even those late seventies, mid seventies S's, SC, and then certainly
• 19:21
  by the time the Carreras were out in the 1980s, you had a very strong evolution of,
• 19:27
  we're going to go after our customer base.
• 19:29
  Well, who is our customer base?
• 19:30
  Oh, that's doctors and lawyers, people with big money.
• 19:33
  They want their comfort.
• 19:34
  They want their panache.
• 19:36
  They want to be able to enjoy all the qualities of a German car,
• 19:40
  all the comforts of a luxury car.
• 19:41
  This one just so happens to be able to move very, very well.
• 19:44
  I think they started pulling away from their racing roots a little bit,
• 19:49
  especially during the 1980s, even though they had the 930, which was very
• 19:53
  capable car, you still had a lot of the luxuries and you can't say it was unique.
• 19:59
  Corvette did the same thing to a degree.
• 20:01
  Yeah.
• 20:01
  You had the 350 and the 327 and all that, which we could modify until kingdom come.
• 20:05
  But I mean, you look at Datsun with the 280Z versus the 280ZX, and that
• 20:10
  happened right around that same time, that late seventies, early eighties.
• 20:13
  But the ZX was a big departure from what the Z enthusiasts
• 20:18
  were really, really wanting.
• 20:19
  Well, what Nissan or Datsun was trying to point out to them was, yeah, you
• 20:22
  guys, you enthusiasts are great.
• 20:24
  We love you.
• 20:25
  I guess who's writing the checks these days.
• 20:27
  It's the yuppies.
• 20:28
  It's not you guys, Porsche and Corvette.
• 20:30
  I think both recognize the same thing.
• 20:32
  And they started having to pull away and they started having to develop really what
• 20:35
  became the yuppie mobiles of the eighties.
• 20:37
  We talk a lot on the American side about the malaise period, adding the luxury.
• 20:42
  We talked about that quite a bit with the C3 Corvette, where it was
• 20:45
  like all show and no go, Horses have always been pretty Spartan.
• 20:49
  They're very utilitarian.
• 20:50
  If you sit in a nine 64 outside of, you know, more modern video cockpit
• 20:55
  design gauges, it's still the same interior going back all the way to
• 20:58
  1964, more or less the seats got better, but it's all the same basic recipe.
• 21:04
  But the thing is you hit the nail on the head in the eighties, much
• 21:08
  like the C2 Corvette, the second generation nine 11 was suddenly on TV.
• 21:13
  You saw nine 11s on heart to heart.
• 21:14
  Linda Carter drove a nine, a wonder woman.
• 21:17
  I mean, celebrities are driving nine 11s, right?
• 21:21
  But the thing is, if you look at it chronologically, Porsche is always behind.
• 21:25
  I feel like they're playing catch up to Corvette a little bit.
• 21:27
  Like, look at what they're doing over there because they are 10 years behind.
• 21:31
  C2 was already at C3 was already on its way in by the time the second gen 911
• 21:35
  was coming around, but you also mentioned something in the second generation, you
• 21:40
  had the regular 911, then the S and the SC, and then the Carrera and this and
• 21:44
  that, and they kept piling what I noticed, especially growing up in the Porsche
• 21:47
  club, it was like, Oh, you own an S.
• 21:50
  I have an SC and then the guy next to him goes, Oh, you only have an SC.
• 21:54
  Well, I have a turbo, you know?
• 21:56
  And it became this like almost bidding war in their own community.
• 21:59
  Like you had to have the latest, greatest, biggest, baddest one there was.
• 22:04
  And it sort of set the whole thing into motion.
• 22:06
  I'm listening to you and I hear you and I get it.
• 22:08
  And I'm going to step into that realm.
• 22:11
  And I know you and I cannot engage in that realm, not because we fight,
• 22:14
  but because you and I will just keep that damn thing going forever, but I'm
• 22:16
  going to go into the C3 real quick.
• 22:18
  And we've already discussed this, but the C3 was really kind of a neat car.
• 22:21
  You saw the shift.
• 22:23
  It was obvious when the C3 was born.
• 22:25
  Yeah.
• 22:26
  You had another performance Corvette.
• 22:27
  You had fun.
• 22:28
  You had higher squealing performance, et cetera.
• 22:30
  It was fantastic.
• 22:31
  And then the mid seventies set in and we started losing our chrome bumpers in
• 22:38
  favor of those elasto form plastic bumpers that bend with five mile per hour impact.
• 22:43
  Well, okay.
• 22:44
  I guess it's more aerodynamic.
• 22:46
  Yeah, but it's also better on fuel because of this, this and this.
• 22:48
  Oh, and the emissions are a lot cleaner because of this, that, and the other.
• 22:52
  Uh huh.
• 22:53
  So does it still move?
• 22:54
  Yeah, man.
• 22:55
  190 horsepower.
• 22:56
  Wait, what?
• 22:58
  You know, all of a sudden it was a gutless wonder, but you
• 23:01
  got real leather seats now, huh?
• 23:04
  And how about that fake wood dashboard, man?
• 23:06
  You don't get that in no Porsche, no sir.
• 23:08
  By the way, two tone leather seats for you, buddy.
• 23:12
  It's gonna be special.
• 23:13
  We're gonna put you a CB radio in there, too, man.
• 23:15
  You're gonna have some fun playing Smokey and the Bandit all day long.
• 23:18
  You actually got to see the evolution from performance to, I guess,
• 23:24
  malaise is what we'll stick to.
• 23:25
  Cars got more comfortable.
• 23:27
  They got more luxurious.
• 23:28
  They had two tone paint jobs, et cetera.
• 23:30
  I'm not saying the 911 went that crazy.
• 23:32
  Certainly it never did.
• 23:33
  But, exactly what you're saying.
• 23:35
  If you follow along, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:37
  The gauges were all the same.
• 23:38
  The layout's all the same.
• 23:39
  Why?
• 23:40
  Germans aren't really that creative.
• 23:41
  Oh Lord.
• 23:42
  Okay.
• 23:42
  So.
• 23:43
  They keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over.
• 23:46
  So they're just not all that creative.
• 23:47
  So the Porsche just kept going and going and going.
• 23:50
  And yes, they were playing catch up, but by the mid seventies, you could barely
• 23:54
  see the light of malaise coming through on nine 11 if for no other reason.
• 24:00
  They really started catering to their customer base that they were actually
• 24:03
  genius at how they evolved 9 11 so subtly, so subtly Corvette, man, it's
• 24:09
  in your face, you're getting crap.
• 24:10
  And that's the end of the day, but there is a caveat to that, which is the
• 24:14
  930, the third gen 9 11 with the turbo.
• 24:19
  The very first ones came out as early as 1975.
• 24:21
  Most of us know here in the States 1978, all the way through 1989
• 24:25
  with the four speed and the 3.3 liter and all that kinda stuff.
• 24:28
  The thing about the nine 30 though, much like the C3 Corvette, it wasn't luxury.
• 24:34
  It was insanity.
• 24:35
  We're talking a big snail under the hood and all sorts of crazy noises,
• 24:40
  but what it was was a derivative.
• 24:43
  Of what was happening on the big stage and racing which they were ushering
• 24:47
  in the turbo era Look at all the turbo renault's all the other turbo porsches
• 24:52
  that were racing all this other kind of stuff that was happening at le mans
• 24:55
  At endurance racing can am turbo turbo turbo turbo So it made sense for porsche
• 25:00
  to introduce the 911 turbo when they did and corvette's like Hey man, Rochester
• 25:05
  carburetor, the 930 had fuel injection.
• 25:08
  They were way ahead of the curve.
• 25:10
  So what they lacked in luxury, they dumped it all in technology.
• 25:15
  Not wrong, not wrong.
• 25:17
  You know, David, if you keep giving us those long winded descriptions,
• 25:21
  I'm going to write you up.
• 25:22
  Remember he lived in Germany for a long time, very to the point.
• 25:26
  Let me ask.
• 25:27
  So I'm 48 years old, so I don't remember that far back.
• 25:30
  I mean, I guess it's pretty far back, but back in the seventies though, were people
• 25:34
  cross shopping nine 11s and Corvettes more so than they are say in 2024?
• 25:39
  No, I don't think so.
• 25:41
  And that's why we're having this conversation.
• 25:43
  Yeah.
• 25:43
  Yeah.
• 25:44
  I mean, you know, Eric, to your point though, I mean, to your
• 25:46
  direct question, those forces, that particular generation is.
• 25:50
  Especially the SC and the Carrera of the eighties, that to me is
• 25:53
  still the reigning king 9 11.
• 25:56
  I think that was a real summit in 9 11 development.
• 25:59
  And I don't know why.
• 26:00
  I don't know if it's because those were the ones that I was raised with.
• 26:02
  I don't know if it's because of what you just said, Eric, about all the
• 26:05
  technology and all the engineering that went into ensuring that little
• 26:09
  six cylinder could still hold onto a Corvette could still even outclass a
• 26:13
  Corvette because yeah, it's fuel injected.
• 26:15
  Now it's got turbochargers.
• 26:17
  And I mean that, come on, it was a six cylinder.
• 26:19
  That was cleaning Ferrari clocks.
• 26:21
  I mean, that's something to be said.
• 26:23
  The reason I mentioned the demographics is one car was the doctor killer
• 26:26
  that wasn't the Corvette, right?
• 26:27
  The nine 30 was a widow maker for sure.
• 26:30
  Have any of you guys driven one?
• 26:32
  Cause I have, and my uncle owned one and it was just vicious.
• 26:36
  It was the car that put Porsche on the radar for me personally growing up.
• 26:39
  I, and to this day, I've never driven one, but that was the
• 26:41
  car that put it on my radar.
• 26:43
  There was a single guy who lived next to us who seemed to have all the
• 26:47
  ladies and all the cash, whatever.
• 26:48
  I don't know what he did professionally, but he had two cars.
• 26:50
  He had an old five 60 SL and he had a nine 30 turbo with silver BBS wheels.
• 26:55
  And I just thought that guy was just the Alpha and the Omega.
• 26:58
  I thought he was the coolest, you know?
• 27:00
  And so that for me will always forever be the, the Porsche, the 911.
• 27:04
  But to this day, I've never driven one.
• 27:06
  I've ridden in them, never driven one.
• 27:07
  The one to have is the 89, right?
• 27:09
  With the five speed or whatever.
• 27:10
  And there's a reason you make the statement.
• 27:12
  If you have any other turbocharged German cars, it's got 930 like turbo lag.
• 27:17
  930 is this Derox machine of turbo lag.
• 27:20
  Oh, it is insane.
• 27:21
  When it comes on, it comes on like a shot out of a cannon.
• 27:25
  Bonkers.
• 27:25
  So all the stories are true.
• 27:27
  Yes, a hundred percent.
• 27:28
  You can't actually enjoy a nine 30 because you have to manage a nine 30 and you have
• 27:33
  to be very careful, respectful of it.
• 27:35
  And when it's not on boost Yeah, it can't get out of its own way.
• 27:38
  And when it is on boost, yeah.
• 27:39
  Hold on.
• 27:40
  Yeah.
• 27:40
  It's a Jekyll and Hyde and it's all of 260 horsepower, right?
• 27:43
  Yeah.
• 27:43
  It ain't a lot.
• 27:44
  But it's not the horsepower, it's the torque.
• 27:46
  Yeah.
• 27:46
  But I think that thing had 310 foot pounds of torque.
• 27:49
  Not nothing.
• 27:50
  No, it's not bad.
• 27:51
  That was huge.
• 27:51
  There's a reason why it's so wide too.
• 27:53
  They double the size of the rear tires to try to make traction.
• 27:56
  In the Corvette community, they used to call them steam rollers.
• 27:59
  I mean, like you, Ryan, I had a black on black 930 turbo on my wall.
• 28:04
  It even had black BBS basket weaves, but it was the slant nose.
• 28:07
  The slant nose was the one everybody was talking about.
• 28:10
  Oh, it's so cool.
• 28:10
  It's like a nine 35, you know, no headlights.
• 28:13
  You didn't see them.
• 28:14
  That was it.
• 28:14
  They only existed on posters and in magazines, at least
• 28:16
  where I lived in Indiana.
• 28:18
  I mean, that was just a next level exotic.
• 28:20
  I mentioned my uncle had one.
• 28:21
  His was a replica all steel slammer.
• 28:24
  Okay.
• 28:27
  You can find them.
• 28:28
  Yeah.
• 28:28
  Where'd they all go?
• 28:29
  Gone.
• 28:30
  Like magic.
• 28:31
  There was something said earlier.
• 28:33
  I want to, I maybe want to challenge a little bit, cause
• 28:35
  I feel like an understatement.
• 28:36
  the significance of the 959, which you mentioned in the intro outside
• 28:40
  of the turbo technology, which we've talked about being not amazingly
• 28:45
  well implemented in the 930.
• 28:47
  The 911 didn't change for a long time.
• 28:49
  It was a pretty low volume car.
• 28:51
  They're selling a thousand units.
• 28:53
  They're selling 2, 000 units while the Corvette's selling 25, 30.
• 28:57
  You know, in the late seventies, the Corvette was crushing it.
• 28:59
  Absolutely destroying.
• 29:01
  Stayed this low volume.
• 29:02
  You know, they stuck with this 915 transmission, which I absolutely loved.
• 29:07
  My 915, I put some Wevo aftermarket parts in it and it was just absolutely amazing,
• 29:12
  but it was an anachronism for its time.
• 29:14
  I feel like the 959 and the investment that Porsche put around
• 29:18
  that and where they went from there.
• 29:21
  Was a real turning point for the brand and it really started trying
• 29:25
  to win on technology and taking the risk on the investment and in a large
• 29:29
  way betting the company on this idea that they were going to increase
• 29:33
  sales volume and they were going to drive higher margin, higher value.
• 29:36
  And they did all those things.
• 29:38
  If you add the 911 variants up across, they sell similar or
• 29:41
  better volume relative to Corvette.
• 29:44
  And they do it at much higher margins and much higher MSRP.
• 29:47
  And you can see that kind of start to happen in the 90s.
• 29:50
  It's an important, significant evolution of the brand.
• 29:53
  And I loved my 1985 911 3.
• 29:58
  2 that had no power steering, no anti lock brakes.
• 30:01
  The suspension setup was You know, you could argue at the time that it
• 30:04
  was well dated and how it was set up.
• 30:06
  I mean, I loved it.
• 30:07
  And the 9 11 was relatively static for a long time.
• 30:10
  I think that was indicative of where Porsche was putting their money,
• 30:13
  putting it into different programs.
• 30:16
  9 28, they thought that was going to take over and kill the 9 11.
• 30:19
  We haven't told that story that everybody knows if they know
• 30:22
  anything about 9 11, but then also they were doing the Volkswagen
• 30:25
  project that they ended up having to take over for themselves to sell.
• 30:29
  The 9 44 and they're putting all this money in.
• 30:31
  other places and not in the 9 11 and then that changed significantly and
• 30:36
  it became the future of the brand.
• 30:38
  It's important I think to kind of talk about from that perspective.
• 30:41
  And I'm glad you brought that up.
• 30:42
  It was at the back of my mind.
• 30:44
  There was a moment there where 9 11 might not have made it past the 80s
• 30:49
  because if you go back to some of those magazines that I know Ryan's got
• 30:52
  memorized, but if you look at some of the spec of like the 944 turbos, they
• 30:56
  were more aerodynamic than the 9 11.
• 30:57
  They were quicker.
• 30:58
  The 928 is faster.
• 30:59
  Especially when you get up to GTS, you're talking near 200 mile an hour cars.
• 31:05
  The 911 wasn't putting down those kinds of speeds yet.
• 31:08
  The 959 was the 911 that could do 200 miles an hour air quotes on that one too.
• 31:14
  To your point, yeah, they were sort of not lost, but they were definitely
• 31:18
  diversifying their product portfolio.
• 31:21
  They were a small company, and I think that's hard to
• 31:23
  appreciate in the modern context.
• 31:25
  They were a small company.
• 31:26
  Great point.
• 31:27
  They were investing in these other lines that they were going to go on a more
• 31:31
  luxurious higher end point with the nine 28, but they're going to go more
• 31:35
  economical, the nine 44, the nine 24.
• 31:39
  They were putting investment in those spaces and they weren't
• 31:42
  hamstringing those in the way the Americans did, where it was like, no,
• 31:45
  your 9 44 can't impune the nine 11.
• 31:48
  Which is funny 'cause they do that today, right?
• 31:50
  Like your complaint about your payment or something today is it feels like
• 31:53
  it was built to be the best thing that wouldn't beat to nine 11.
• 31:56
  It's like, eh, you know, obviously they've gotten better with that, a lot more with
• 32:00
  the GD fours and the RSS and the spiders, and I feel like they've really improved
• 32:03
  that in the last five, seven years.
• 32:05
  But up until then they had a real problem, but they didn't do that in the eighties.
• 32:09
  Right.
• 32:09
  And then I think they didn't do that because they didn't think that
• 32:11
  9 11 was the future of the brand.
• 32:13
  So they didn't care.
• 32:14
  But that changed.
• 32:14
  The 928, I guess, even the 944, 924, et cetera, in the seventies as they came out.
• 32:20
  If I'm not mistaken, 928 was supposed to take the baton from
• 32:23
  9 11 because they didn't expect it to get out of the seventies.
• 32:27
  They thought 9 11 was going to be out to put to sleep because they didn't
• 32:30
  think the air cooled would meet the American emissions regulations.
• 32:33
  And so 9 28 was developed and it became kind of an oops car because 9 28 just
• 32:40
  didn't resonate with 9 11 customers.
• 32:42
  That was not.
• 32:43
  Porsche, but what it did do, it dragged some traditional Mercedes and BMW people
• 32:48
  into the Porsche showroom for a slightly larger, more luxurious Porsche experience.
• 32:53
  And it was the way Porsche embraced the malaise period too.
• 32:56
  Yeah.
• 32:57
  It was also very expensive.
• 32:58
  Yes.
• 32:59
  Relative to other Porsches.
• 33:00
  It was very expensive.
• 33:01
  But they are amazing to drive.
• 33:03
  And we could probably go down a whole rabbit hole on 928.
• 33:06
  I adore 928s, they're a lot of fun.
• 33:09
  Seen in movies like Scarface and Risky Business and Weird
• 33:12
  Science and things like that.
• 33:13
  And you do know where 928 came from, don't you?
• 33:16
  Don't even start.
• 33:17
  I mean, let's face it, the 9 11 is nothing more than a squashed beetle.
• 33:21
  And the 9 28 is nothing more than a squashed American pacer.
• 33:25
  Legend has it its inspiration comes from the pacer.
• 33:28
  But I will tell you where Jeremy Clarkson, where he hates 9 11, he loves 9 28.
• 33:34
  Yeah.
• 33:34
  He absolutely loves 9 28.
• 33:36
  So for him, you know, kudos.
• 33:38
  I was going to say, a little more room for that giant head, huh?
• 33:46
  Can you imagine the cost of developing the automatic transmission and the
• 33:50
  new manual transmission and a 32 valve V8 for a car as low volume as this?
• 33:54
  928 don't only to walk away from it, they sold what?
• 33:58
  Five in 1994.
• 34:00
  I mean, that was such a boondoggle for the brand.
• 34:03
  I guess they should get credit for surviving it.
• 34:05
  It was like a 20 plus year boondoggle.
• 34:07
  The 928
• 34:09
  was around forever.
• 34:10
  It's like, it was never going to die.
• 34:12
  You know, someone was trying to amortize the cost of all that R and D.
• 34:16
  It just kept going.
• 34:17
  Porsche has always been like on the edge of bankruptcy.
• 34:19
  Every so many years, it was like, holy cow, you know, we got to bet the farm.
• 34:23
  And the 944 was a saving grace.
• 34:26
  Like it kept the service bays full.
• 34:28
  And I'm not saying because 944 was plagued with issues, but it was just
• 34:32
  so different to maintain than a 9 11.
• 34:34
  Yeah, it is a company for many, many years was on the edge of bankruptcy and had to
• 34:39
  be creative and innovative to keep going.
• 34:41
  You know, it's funny, we talked about the 944 and then the 928.
• 34:44
  Well, those were the first Porsches for me that I fell in love with because I grew up
• 34:48
  in New York city and there weren't a lot of 911s going around in my neighborhood.
• 34:52
  Like I knew of it, but what I first saw, and I remember this vividly, the first
• 34:55
  thing I saw, and I think it mentions other podcasts, it was a red 944.
• 34:59
  That somebody in my neighborhood had, and then fell in love kind of with the 928.
• 35:03
  But that changed very quickly.
• 35:04
  Once I really discovered the 911s cause you know, the 930 turbo and the, just the
• 35:08
  930 in general, the history of its racing and, and the history of what it became
• 35:12
  was what I started to fall in love with.
• 35:13
  So, yeah, to me, it's a very important car.
• 35:15
  Would I ever own one?
• 35:16
  Probably not right now.
• 35:18
  Like I probably wouldn't get a 944 just cause there's so much other stuff
• 35:21
  in the Porsche range that I love.
• 35:23
  I mean, I love seeing them at car shows and I still go to a lot of car shows.
• 35:26
  So I love seeing the 944, the 944 S.
• 35:29
  And in fact, when we were in Detroit, there was that one
• 35:30
  sitting, I was like, Hey, so yeah, I definitely love seeing them.
• 35:34
  And I love seeing the 928.
• 35:35
  And when my kids see them, they think it's cool.
• 35:37
  Cause the lights, right.
• 35:38
  They're like, you know, those are the only portions with pop up lights.
• 35:41
  And then.
• 35:41
  I tell him, yeah, but it's front engine.
• 35:43
  And then my, my little daughter says, well, that's not a real Porsche.
• 35:46
  The nine, six, eight doesn't count.
• 35:48
  I love the nine, six, eight counts.
• 35:50
  But in my family, I kept telling them because they, you know, as my girls are
• 35:53
  learning about cars and the difference between Corvettes, Mustangs, Porsches.
• 35:57
  Even Audi's like, I've always said one thing that makes Porsche special
• 36:01
  was, you know, at least the engine used to sit behind the rear axle.
• 36:03
  And we started this thing of like, that's not a real Porsche.
• 36:06
  You know, we'd see things out in the wild and, and my girls were like, Oh,
• 36:09
  that's not a real Porsche because where the engine sits, but the bad thing
• 36:12
  now is that they say it to a lot of people they go to school with whose
• 36:16
  parents own McCann's and Cayenne's.
• 36:18
  And you know, the kid's like, Oh, my father has a McCann and my daughter's
• 36:23
  like, well, that's a fake Porsche.
• 36:24
  And they called this big Porsche to like some parents.
• 36:27
  And so the parents are looking at me like, obviously influenced by your dad.
• 36:30
  And my daughter's like, no, we just learned what's proper.
• 36:32
  So the Porsche Tiguan.
• 36:35
  Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 36:37
  I taught my children gatekeeping and elitism in the Porsche
• 36:40
  community tradition going well.
• 36:46
  So, Mark, are these second gen and even third gen 930s, are they even attainable?
• 36:51
  Are they completely out of the range of possibility anymore?
• 36:55
  No, no, no.
• 36:55
  I mean, I think the SE continues in my mind.
• 36:58
  It's been the value purchase.
• 37:01
  For the last 15, 20 years, it's now gone from being something you could
• 37:06
  get for 15 K for being something you can get for 40 K, which is not cheap
• 37:11
  by any means for something that's 180 horsepower or something like that.
• 37:15
  We talked about the last time.
• 37:17
  There was a dark period for Corvette and that happened with C3
• 37:21
  was the longest running Corvette.
• 37:23
  It kind of weathered the storm for Corvette as well.
• 37:26
  As Mark alluded to, so many were produced in like a 25 year run is insane, but we
• 37:31
  turned the corner in 1989 at Porsche and you're starting to see the 928s getting
• 37:36
  wrapped up, the 944s on its way out with the 16 valve and then the S and the S2.
• 37:41
  And you know, all the special editions that they did, but all
• 37:44
  limited number stuff and the 911s.
• 37:46
  Still sort of the 9 11 through 1989 and then the 964 comes along
• 37:51
  and everybody gets excited again.
• 37:53
  There's a new 9 11!
• 37:54
  Wait, it looks just like the rest of them except rounded and what's the difference?
• 37:59
  You guys have heard me say this a million times if I've said it once.
• 38:02
  The 90s is full of these just bulbous, porpoise, marshmallow looking cars.
• 38:08
  And the 911 was right there lockstep with everybody else.
• 38:11
  They smoothed it out.
• 38:13
  But what I've come to appreciate about the 964 is that it's smooth and that
• 38:17
  it's round, that it's sleek and slippery.
• 38:20
  What a lot of our listeners might not know is lowest production numbers of nine 11.
• 38:25
  Full stop.
• 38:26
  The 9 64 has the least produced.
• 38:28
  Again, the company is on the verge of bankruptcy and it has a very short run,
• 38:33
  1989 through 1994, and they're just trying to get their act together, right?
• 38:37
  9 68 didn't come until 1992.
• 38:39
  The 9 93 didn't come until 93, 94.
• 38:41
  There was all these spinning plates.
• 38:43
  And here we are with 9 11 and rounded bumpers.
• 38:47
  Yeah, I mean, let's finesse that point a little bit, right?
• 38:50
  Because it's lowest production numbers because it's the shortest.
• 38:53
  From an actual sales per annum perspective, it did very well.
• 38:58
  It's like your last year's odd because the 993s out.
• 39:00
  Porsche does the lovely thing where they sell two different cars with
• 39:03
  the same model year designation.
• 39:05
  So you got a 94 93, you got a 94 964, you got 89s.
• 39:08
  But if you look at like the more pure years or 90, 91, 92, 93, they sold really
• 39:14
  well, particularly when in comparison to their trajectory at the time, right?
• 39:19
  So if you're selling 20, 000 Porsche 911s in 1991, almost 22, 000,
• 39:25
  actually, that's really great for them.
• 39:27
  I mean, you mentioned singer earlier.
• 39:29
  Now we're on the nine, six, four.
• 39:30
  We can say singer now.
• 39:31
  Those bastards ruin the 9 6 4, because not everybody wants a 9 6 4 to modify it,
• 39:36
  so it can be a poor man's singer, and it used to be the least loved version of the
• 39:41
  nine 11 that you could most easily get.
• 39:43
  I can remember when I was looking for a car, I ended up buying that 3.2.
• 39:48
  I bought that 3.2 for like 20 grand.
• 39:51
  It was.
• 39:51
  Amazingly restored and really well done.
• 39:55
  And I remember looking at nine, six, four, not the 3.
• 39:58
  6, but the 3.
• 40:00
  3 turbos, they were just like 50 grand all day long.
• 40:03
  And so in Southern California, those days are long gone.
• 40:07
  And I'm glad you brought that up.
• 40:09
  The 3.
• 40:09
  3 liter turbo, it went all the way up to 3.
• 40:12
  8 in the 964 at one point, depending on, you know, who is building
• 40:15
  it at the RS and RSR, yeah.
• 40:17
  Yeah.
• 40:17
  And then the RS America, you know, there were so few of those and all that, but
• 40:20
  the thing about the 964 that I always appreciated, and I had sort of firsthand
• 40:25
  involvement in this because we purchased a 964 twin spark engine to put in our 914.
• 40:31
  And at that point, nobody was doing three sixes.
• 40:34
  And anything, let alone nine fourteens to deal with that motor,
• 40:38
  to look at what they had done.
• 40:39
  It was a huge step away from the 3.
• 40:41
  2, all the changes that they made, the Motronic fuel injection, you know, all
• 40:46
  this other stuff that they added to it.
• 40:47
  It was a much more modern car under sort of an ancient skin.
• 40:52
  And it was sort of the test mule what set the trajectory for every other 3.
• 40:56
  6 liter base nine 11 going forward.
• 40:58
  So to your point, Mark.
• 40:59
  It's underappreciated, but I also think it's a wolf in sheep's clothing.
• 41:03
  Yeah, for sure.
• 41:04
  And again, you know, going back to that narrative, it's post nine, five, nine.
• 41:07
  It's I think when really Porsche started trying to win on technology and
• 41:12
  advancing, and that's evidence of that.
• 41:14
  They started there rather than somewhere else.
• 41:16
  When they came out in 1964, they also came out with the Carrera 4.
• 41:19
  I mean, I don't know if that brought anyone to the force of fold because
• 41:22
  living in cold or weather climates where it's snow, someone can buy an all
• 41:26
  wheel drive one and drive it year round.
• 41:28
  I mean, does that open the door up for wanting to go look at it or not?
• 41:31
  Yes.
• 41:32
  I'll give you all of that.
• 41:33
  The only problem was a lot of us went to the nine 64 C4 with the fantasy that,
• 41:38
  Oh my God, I can buy nine 59 technology.
• 41:42
  Yeah, let's pause and clarify for a second.
• 41:45
  Cause the nine 59 was an Audi Quattro underneath the nine 64 C4
• 41:51
  is a VW synchro system underneath, and they are not the same thing.
• 41:55
  It tends to still be very rear wheel bias until it gets into trouble.
• 41:58
  And then at that point it's too late.
• 42:00
  They didn't fix that problem until late in the nine 93, when you had
• 42:05
  the C4 S and some of the other models that come out where they
• 42:07
  really, you know, Spent the time to develop the all wheel drive system.
• 42:11
  So for me, if I'm buying a nine 64 C2, because you're just carrying
• 42:15
  around ballast with a C4, so you're telling me the salesman back in the
• 42:19
  nineties and a Porsche dealership was going to explain that to
• 42:22
  someone coming in, it was all lies.
• 42:25
  No, it's the same exact as a 9 5 9.
• 42:28
  Yeah.
• 42:28
  Uh huh.
• 42:29
  Yeah.
• 42:31
  Well, and again, this goes to your point, Eric, that we were talking about Porsche
• 42:35
  is always playing catch up to Corvette.
• 42:37
  It feels like they're always evolving.
• 42:39
  They're always developing.
• 42:40
  But it's almost like they do it in a fist punch fashion in the mid seventies.
• 42:44
  They were evolving a little bit and then the nine 30 was evolved.
• 42:47
  And that, Holy cow, that put Porsche on the map.
• 42:50
  And then the SC came out a little bit more, a little bit more every, every time.
• 42:54
  And then the next thing, you know, yeah, the nine 64 comes out.
• 42:57
  And just like Mark is saying, that was a huge step forward for the company.
• 43:01
  So it's almost like they take these huge steps where Corvette constantly
• 43:05
  is just little by little by little.
• 43:07
  Porsche just rides the wave for a long time.
• 43:09
  And then boom, surprise.
• 43:10
  We're here now.
• 43:11
  Very interesting the way they've done that.
• 43:13
  So I got to ask 960 Ford turbo or 930 turbo.
• 43:16
  What do you choose?
• 43:18
  Which 964 turbo though?
• 43:19
  There's some variants in there.
• 43:21
  Yeah, you're right.
• 43:22
  William.
• 43:22
  The worst one.
• 43:25
  930?
• 43:27
  It's still better.
• 43:28
  Come on.
• 43:29
  I mean, let's be honest.
• 43:30
  If it's stock for stock, it's still a lot better.
• 43:33
  I mean, you're comparing like stone age to iron age between those two things.
• 43:38
  Like you just skipped bronze age.
• 43:40
  Like you just jumped that.
• 43:41
  Granted stock normally aspirated three, six is faster than the old
• 43:45
  turbo, but that's not the point.
• 43:46
  Let's just look at it from an aesthetics perspective.
• 43:48
  Would you rather have sitting in your garage?
• 43:50
  Late nine 30 turbo or a 9 64 turbo, well without a flack bow.
• 43:54
  Oh man, why you gotta do that to me?
• 43:57
  Then you got say, you start, right.
• 43:58
  They gotta have the same kind of headlights, right?
• 44:00
  Where that's, that's my rule.
• 44:02
  It's a hard choice.
• 44:03
  All right.
• 44:03
  They did make a couple where it was a flack bow, but it was to delete
• 44:07
  and it was just, you know, made no sense in regards to how they did it.
• 44:10
  But I mean, I'd go old school, I'd do the nine 30.
• 44:13
  I just think because it's so raw, but it doesn't matter what it is.
• 44:16
  I'd go after the three six.
• 44:17
  I'd do a flack valve in a heartbeat.
• 44:19
  As much as I love the 930, the 964 is just that much better to me, and
• 44:24
  it's a much rarer car, is it not?
• 44:25
  Very much so, yeah.
• 44:26
  You throw a 930 in the garage, any kid right now comes over,
• 44:30
  whoa, they know what that is.
• 44:32
  For some reason, it's almost like DNA, they just know that
• 44:36
  is God's car right there.
• 44:37
  But you throw a 964 turbo?
• 44:39
  Oh, that's cool.
• 44:41
  They don't know what it is.
• 44:42
  They don't know how to respond to it.
• 44:44
  You know, the nine 30 is just legend.
• 44:46
  It is absolutely legend.
• 44:47
  I'm going nine 30 turbo.
• 44:49
  If I had all the money in the world, I'm getting like a nine 30 RSR tribute
• 44:52
  type body, because I just love them.
• 44:54
  And, and something about that history of that time of motorsports stuff they
• 44:58
  were doing, especially in America.
• 44:59
  That's what I like.
• 45:00
  And that's when I think of being a kid, I think that's the car.
• 45:02
  Like I would have loved that my dad had or something like that.
• 45:05
  And, and.
• 45:05
  Or somebody in the family and we never had it.
• 45:08
  So I was always like, it's that car you want it to play with to me.
• 45:10
  The nine six four.
• 45:11
  I also love it, of course, but it's something about the nine 30.
• 45:14
  And it makes me think of maybe when my dad was a younger man, things he would have
• 45:18
  aspired for, because he said he wanted to be a doctor and it never happened.
• 45:21
  But.
• 45:21
  You just kind of playing around in the Martini livery.
• 45:24
  Yeah.
• 45:24
  Right.
• 45:25
  So I'm going to pull the pin.
• 45:26
  I'm going to throw the grenade on this one.
• 45:27
  The reason it's nine 64 turbo bad boys, you know, that didn't even factor into
• 45:35
  my decision, but you're not wrong.
• 45:36
  That kind of made it an icon.
• 45:38
  Didn't it?
• 45:38
  If you're a nineties kid, you know,
• 45:42
  That's funny.
• 45:42
  Yeah.
• 45:43
  Bad boys put it on the map and I'll tell you, working for Mecham, I
• 45:46
  got to write the description for that Porsche because we sold it.
• 45:49
  And that description writing, it's the one that made me take notice of 964 a
• 45:54
  little bit closer because other than that, it was overlooked, you know, in
• 45:58
  my little brain, which admittedly is not exactly wired to Porsche, but I
• 46:02
  never had anything against Porsche.
• 46:03
  I just never spent a hell of a lot of time with them.
• 46:06
  But the 964 was always that.
• 46:08
  Well, the tweener, right, that one between the real Porsche
• 46:12
  and the other Porsche, right.
• 46:13
  Got it.
• 46:14
  Got it.
• 46:15
  So the dark period of 9 11, it's also sort of the beginning of
• 46:19
  the air cooled 9 11 swan song.
• 46:21
  And so again, I look at the 9 64 going wolf in sheep's clothing, a lot of hidden
• 46:26
  things inside that car that people would say, it's just another 9 11, who cares?
• 46:30
  But it ushered in the 993, which like in the Corvette world, when we went from C4
• 46:36
  to C5, it suddenly got bigger and it got hippier and it got more aerodynamic and
• 46:41
  it got more technologically friendly.
• 46:42
  993 to me is the C5 of 911s.
• 46:46
  993 is the C5 of 9 11?
• 46:49
  You're obviously wrong.
• 46:52
  I don't know what you mean there, Eric.
• 46:53
  A lot of plastic, a lot of rounded edges.
• 46:56
  Is it the C5?
• 46:57
  Yeah, I tend to agree.
• 46:58
  You know, you really impugned upon the 993.
• 47:02
  It hurt my feelings.
• 47:02
  When you said that it's the C5 of the Porsche.
• 47:05
  So one right off the bat, I think the fact that there is no 993 that
• 47:10
  has not, oh, all right, I won't make such a ridiculous statement.
• 47:13
  But basically all 993s have appreciated over their purchase price from
• 47:18
  when they were made in the 90s.
• 47:20
  Any variant.
• 47:21
  So I think right off the bat, it shows how loved it has been by the community.
• 47:26
  I think it's considered to be the ultimate air cooled version of that car.
• 47:31
  The turbo version of it did uniquely well.
• 47:33
  Is the appreciation of the 993 a result of the fact that number one, you
• 47:38
  mentioned one of the two cars, the 993 twin turbo, which I've had the luxury
• 47:42
  of riding in is an amazing vehicle.
• 47:44
  I mean, ballistically fast.
• 47:45
  But also the 911 GT2, which was running at Le Mans, other places and the successes
• 47:51
  that it was having that everybody went, well, I can't afford either one of those
• 47:55
  because 993 twin turbos were already six figure cars in the mid nineties.
• 47:59
  They were very hard to get ahold of.
• 48:01
  So they went, you know what?
• 48:02
  I'm going to buy a 993 and kind of live the fantasy, even though
• 48:05
  that's not what you were getting.
• 48:06
  It still had a very competitive power to weight ratio for its time.
• 48:11
  And it was definitely a sports car.
• 48:13
  Yeah, sure.
• 48:14
  It wasn't the turbo sure.
• 48:15
  So it wasn't the GT too.
• 48:16
  I think people driving it now are enjoying that kind of 300 ish horsepower type
• 48:23
  driving experience with it's odd basket of anachronisms, which I think are, you
• 48:28
  know, To certain people that it comes across as particularly charming, right?
• 48:32
  It still has that old interior, that old dash.
• 48:35
  It feels like it's a direct predecessor of that 1960s, nine 11.
• 48:40
  And it feels like it sounds like when you shut the door, that like kind of.
• 48:45
  Ting noise when you shut the door.
• 48:47
  I think that through line carries a lot for the people in the brand.
• 48:50
  And the reason I equate it to the C5, not because it shares the same timeline
• 48:54
  as the C5, is that, like we spoke about, C5 was a turning point for Corvette.
• 49:00
  The introduction of Jake and Team Corvette and the C5R and all the
• 49:04
  things they were doing at ALMS.
• 49:06
  And I feel like the 993 is right there with it because we introduced super
• 49:10
  cup racing and the Porsche Carrera Challenge, those organized spec racing
• 49:14
  and what they were doing on the big stage and at Le Mans, this and that.
• 49:17
  Porsche was winning races in other Porsches for a long time, 962s 917s.
• 49:23
  But the 911 suddenly came onto the stage and the rivalry between Porsche
• 49:28
  and Corvette Even though Corvette was also fighting with Viper, which
• 49:32
  we talked about at the same time.
• 49:33
  So they're fighting kind of a two front war in motorsport.
• 49:36
  Everything started to heat up at this point.
• 49:38
  They fought in the trenches together and they share that the C5 It's a page
• 49:44
  turn away from all the other cars.
• 49:46
  Even if it is the successor to the 901, it still follows that lineage.
• 49:50
  The 993 for me is a step in the right direction.
• 49:53
  But I would argue that a large percentage of Porsche guys would
• 49:56
  call the 993 their favorite Porsche.
• 49:58
  I don't know if a similar percentage of Corvette guys would call
• 50:01
  the C5 their favorite Corvette.
• 50:03
  So we talked about that on the previous episode.
• 50:06
  C5 is like the de facto go to Corvette, especially if you kind of want that
• 50:11
  Swiss army knife that can do everything.
• 50:13
  The C5 is that starter track car.
• 50:16
  It's the show car.
• 50:17
  There's all the different versions of it.
• 50:19
  The Z06.
• 50:19
  Z06.
• 50:20
  Yeah, true, true, true.
• 50:21
  So there's a cult following for the C5, I think in a similar
• 50:25
  way that there is for the 993.
• 50:26
  See, in my mind, it's more of the 996 of Corvettes, but it
• 50:30
  shows how much I know, I guess.
• 50:31
  It's interesting.
• 50:32
  There's a point in that not a lot of people are going out and buying 964s
• 50:34
  and 993s and turning them into track cars, like they are C5s or, you know.
• 50:38
  C4s or whatever, for that matter, you're both right.
• 50:41
  I think if your buyer is coming from, you know, how do I kick butt
• 50:44
  at an autocross or at a track event, I'm going to start doing this.
• 50:48
  The C5 is absolutely your value proposition for entering into
• 50:53
  that type of event and being competitive and doing really well.
• 50:56
  And in that way, It is uniquely loved by people who are
• 51:00
  interested in getting into that.
• 51:01
  When you look across the breadth of the people buying these cars, as opposed
• 51:05
  to the more track oriented, you know, you get into what Ryan's talking about.
• 51:09
  So you're both right.
• 51:10
  It's a good point.
• 51:10
  Yeah.
• 51:11
  You're talking about different kinds of buyers.
• 51:12
  996 would be my choice.
• 51:14
  For a starter Porsche track car, for sure.
• 51:16
  Not a nine 93, but is that just based on price or availability or what?
• 51:21
  Having coached in a lot of nine 11s over the years, the nine
• 51:25
  96 is a very forgiving chassis.
• 51:27
  It kind of checks the legacy at the door.
• 51:29
  And that's why I say nine 93 kind of opened the door for these newer nine 11s,
• 51:34
  you know, the wide bodies and all this.
• 51:35
  And you can see that it's a new lineage.
• 51:38
  It's kind of a reboot for nine 11.
• 51:39
  But the nine 96 is where it all really leaps off from.
• 51:43
  And that chassis is much more refined.
• 51:45
  It's much more forgiving.
• 51:46
  And then you start getting into things like GT three, and we'll talk about that
• 51:49
  too, but I think nine 96, you can still get into them for very, very cheap money.
• 51:55
  For now, yeah, I think 996, you can still catch a bargain out there.
• 51:59
  Everyone knows I like 996 and a lot of the guys on Facebook that I know who
• 52:03
  are all into sports cars are always telling me, go get it, go get it.
• 52:06
  You're going to lose your window.
• 52:08
  Go get it because yeah, we're losing our window.
• 52:10
  If you've been paying attention, 996 market, it suddenly did boom.
• 52:13
  It just suddenly finally started climbing up.
• 52:16
  Correct me if I'm wrong, the 996.
• 52:18
  Three, the one behind Mark on that picture.
• 52:21
  What years did those come out?
• 52:22
  95 to 98.
• 52:24
  It has some 94s as well.
• 52:25
  Yeah.
• 52:26
  A couple of them.
• 52:26
  Okay.
• 52:27
  So they, they were more of a C4 car when it comes to Corvette, they were
• 52:30
  coming out when the C4 was just wrapping up its production, C5 was beginning.
• 52:34
  It's good what I was going to get at the 993.
• 52:36
  I always remember it as being acclaimed by the media as it was a much more
• 52:41
  refined car than the previous 911.
• 52:43
  It was smoother.
• 52:44
  It didn't deliver the punch that a lot of the older 911 did.
• 52:48
  There was a refinement to it.
• 52:49
  There was a usefulness to it.
• 52:50
  There was a relaxation to it.
• 52:52
  And that was something we spoke about with C5 is it's kind of the
• 52:55
  coupe de ville of the Corvette world.
• 52:57
  It's much more refined than the C4, much more comfortable, much more relaxed.
• 53:01
  You know, Eric, you said it yourself, the C4 and the C6 both had a sort of
• 53:06
  nervous twitchiness to them that the C5 does not have, I'm kind of interested in
• 53:11
  how the 993 with all of its refinement.
• 53:14
  Is compared to that C5 in that regard.
• 53:18
  And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't C5 the shortest production run, much like 993?
• 53:23
  Yep, it was.
• 53:24
  So they've got that in common too, which is really interesting.
• 53:27
  If you look at it again, if you start looking at the two companies in their
• 53:30
  development phase, they're trying to figure out what's going to sell, what's
• 53:33
  going to perform, what's going to do what.
• 53:35
  And as you say, the 996 was born and what a car that was.
• 53:40
  Yeah.
• 53:40
  And the C6 was born and what a car that was.
• 53:44
  One thing I take exception with though, the 993s values are
• 53:48
  absolutely insane compared to a C5.
• 53:51
  And if you're just looking at it from performance to performance,
• 53:53
  I'd rather have the Vette.
• 53:55
  Yeah.
• 53:56
  I mean, I don't not understand, but at the same token, it's interesting
• 53:59
  to me how much more valuable.
• 54:01
  The Porsche is, you can blame Singer for part of that too.
• 54:05
  Yeah, that's true.
• 54:05
  That's rich from somebody who owns a DeLorean.
• 54:07
  I mean, come on, there are some intangible things to car ownership
• 54:12
  that impairs you to the car.
• 54:14
  Yes.
• 54:15
  You had a great point, Mark.
• 54:16
  It's that emotional component.
• 54:17
  There's that whole 30 year cycle, right?
• 54:19
  We buy what we couldn't afford when they came out new.
• 54:21
  To your point, Don, I mean, that 996 is just ripe to explode.
• 54:25
  I would love to get my hands on one.
• 54:27
  I really, really would.
• 54:28
  I really liked those Porsche's when they first came out.
• 54:30
  I laughed.
• 54:31
  I couldn't stand them.
• 54:33
  I thought they were hideously ugly with those droopy eyes.
• 54:36
  You know, if it's coming up in your review, Mary, like,
• 54:38
  Ooh, there's the new box.
• 54:39
  Oh no.
• 54:39
  Oh, that's a nine 11.
• 54:41
  Sorry, buddy.
• 54:41
  And I'm a sucker for this 0.
• 54:42
  1 headlights because the GT one had them.
• 54:45
  Yeah.
• 54:45
  Right.
• 54:45
  If you look at it through that lens, they're not so bad.
• 54:47
  Oh, well, what's funny is for me, when the nine nine seven came out, it went
• 54:51
  back to the classic round headlight.
• 54:53
  Yeah.
• 54:54
  Okay.
• 54:54
  Sharp.
• 54:55
  Very cool.
• 54:55
  And Mark, you're absolutely right.
• 54:57
  996 had the worst interior that was ever developed for a 911.
• 55:01
  It looks like Silly Putty got in there and designed it for Porsche.
• 55:04
  But seeing the 997's lights, seeing the 997's interior, which is razor
• 55:09
  sharp, it made me like the 996 better because it was so different.
• 55:13
  It was something that stood out from the crowd.
• 55:15
  It was something that when it came into an event, you're seeing roundhead light,
• 55:18
  roundhead, light, roundhead, light, fried egg, roundhead, light, roundhead.
• 55:22
  You know who the weirdo is in the group.
• 55:23
  Yeah.
• 55:24
  It wasn't derivative in the same way that every other nine 11 was right.
• 55:27
  It was the rebel.
• 55:28
  It was the outcast.
• 55:28
  And if I can bring cartoons into it, Sally from cars.
• 55:32
  Was a 996 before we get deep into the water cooled world.
• 55:36
  I want to ask William as an air cooled aficionado, where are you
• 55:40
  seeing people spending their money?
• 55:42
  And they, on the air cooled side of the house, I mean, I was going
• 55:44
  after a nine, six, four, the problem with your nine, nine, three, the
• 55:48
  only reason I say the only reason is because that's the last air cooled.
• 55:51
  So, I mean, that's where it's just got as value as that.
• 55:53
  Not a huge leap from that nine, six, four to nine, nine, three.
• 55:57
  I'm not a fan of the 993.
• 55:58
  I think they're ugly.
• 55:59
  I just don't like the nose.
• 56:00
  You would think I would because I like the black problem, but something about
• 56:02
  the 993, I just, it doesn't, I don't know.
• 56:04
  I always thought the front was disproportionately narrow compared
• 56:07
  to the back, but that was by design.
• 56:09
  That's how they eliminated some of the trailing throttle oversteer
• 56:11
  problems and kind of gave it that turbo look without being a turbo.
• 56:15
  Yeah.
• 56:15
  But then, you know, you go into the 996 4s because of the singer effect,
• 56:18
  but you know, Singer's not the only one out there taking those and redo them.
• 56:21
  There's a dime a dozen now, a company doing the restomods, everything like that.
• 56:25
  Well, I mean, you had roof doing the BTR twos, which were
• 56:27
  nine 93 base way back when.
• 56:29
  So none of that stuff is new.
• 56:31
  It's just, everybody goes, Ooh, ah, cause it's singer vehicle design, right?
• 56:35
  The roof that won the yellowbird recreation, that CTR two era
• 56:38
  is make their own bodies.
• 56:40
  They're going to have to just go full bore and just start making it.
• 56:42
  They're not going to have enough cars.
• 56:43
  I know there's stock.
• 56:44
  I don't know.
• 56:44
  And that's why all of a sudden they kind of got away from their model.
• 56:47
  They started getting a little too greedy and just were building
• 56:50
  as many as they could sell.
• 56:51
  But the problem was that all of a sudden it was like the guy that boss him, wait a
• 56:54
  minute, guy down the streets got a singer.
• 56:55
  I thought this was supposed to be unique.
• 56:56
  So it's like, they started like with the turbo now they're coming out with
• 56:59
  and that DLS, whatever, you know, their cabinet at 80 cars, whatever.
• 57:02
  If I realize, Hey, we got to cut down what we're doing, but the nine,
• 57:05
  six, four, then he got you growled.
• 57:07
  Well, you know, it's extreme wide body.
• 57:09
  There's a lot with the nine, six, four.
• 57:11
  And I think the people of our generation in regards to those cars, because that's
• 57:16
  when we were in our late teens, early twenties, what have you, when that
• 57:20
  was the car kind of sticks with you.
• 57:22
  And that's kind of, obviously I have that soft place.
• 57:24
  You want to go after, but.
• 57:25
  People go out to 993 for collectibilities, that was the last air cooled.
• 57:28
  And they just look at it as an investment.
• 57:29
  So I'm glad you brought that up.
• 57:30
  Quick quiz.
• 57:31
  Do you know who bought the very last air cooled 9 11 off the assembly line?
• 57:35
  Some guy that's not very funny, very crappy TV show.
• 57:38
  Make no money on it.
• 57:40
  Jerry Seinfeld.
• 57:41
  We should have had him on this panel.
• 57:42
  I don't know if he remembers where he parked that thing.
• 57:44
  He's got so many warehouses full of cars.
• 57:46
  Let's move into water cooled a little bit more.
• 57:49
  Obviously, we kind of fell backwards into 996.
• 57:52
  I'm with you guys.
• 57:53
  I agree.
• 57:54
  I think that's the sweet spot in terms of buying potential
• 57:57
  right now is buying a 996.
• 57:58
  The question is which one do you buy and why and those kinds of things.
• 58:02
  I Man, I try to ignore all these 996s, I guess.
• 58:07
  All right.
• 58:08
  So the bias from our host has come out.
• 58:13
  Would I own one?
• 58:14
  I'm more of a fan of the normally aspirated GT3.
• 58:17
  996 was the beginning of GT3 production cars that now has become
• 58:22
  the thing to have if you have a 911.
• 58:24
  Like a Boxster, if you take care of the intermediate shaft bearing
• 58:29
  issues, the water pump problem, and some of this stuff that, let's say
• 58:32
  they borrowed off the shelf from Volkswagen or whatever, when they
• 58:35
  first put together the water cooled 3.
• 58:38
  6, if you take care of those problems, those 996s, Pretty damn bulletproof.
• 58:42
  They are in the nine and six turbos are especially bulletproof because
• 58:45
  they have the muscular engines.
• 58:46
  And that's really where my money would be, would be a turbo.
• 58:48
  Because with a few mods, I mean, that'll keep up with any modern car.
• 58:51
  Those things are incredible for the money.
• 58:54
  And that was what the X 50 engine, right?
• 58:56
  Oh God.
• 58:56
  Yeah.
• 58:57
  They're yeah.
• 58:57
  Yeah.
• 58:58
  What is it?
• 58:58
  The X 58 option, the turbos compared to what?
• 59:01
  They're the normal, the power pack versus like the non, yeah.
• 59:04
  So there was an option on the turbo called the X 58, which everybody
• 59:08
  hunts for in the secondary market.
• 59:10
  They want to find that nine, nine, six turbo with the X 58 package.
• 59:14
  The turbos had some of the best body style out of the nine, nine, six generation.
• 59:18
  So what is in the X 58?
• 59:20
  Is it like a GT two parts they put in the regular turbo or something?
• 59:24
  I thought it was mostly air box and different power peak.
• 59:28
  Seem to remember at the time that they had more power and paper, but they weren't
• 59:31
  really that much faster numbers wise.
• 59:33
  Was it 50 horsepower?
• 59:35
  What was it actually?
• 59:36
  Do you know?
• 59:37
  58 probably.
• 59:39
  Now I'm going to have to look it up.
• 59:40
  I mean, I think from a value perspective, I mean, just last week, a 996 turbo
• 59:46
  transacted on that with 29, 000 miles.
• 59:49
  Very clean guards, red coupe for 55 grand a console.
• 59:53
  That's it.
• 59:54
  Incredible.
• 59:54
  55 grand.
• 59:57
  That low amount of money for a 911 Turbo, I kind of often wonder if these are going
• 1:00:03
  to end up becoming rare if for no other reason they simply got beat up, chewed up,
• 1:00:09
  and spit out because nobody loves them.
• 1:00:11
  The thing that buyers have a hard time getting over with this generation
• 1:00:15
  is the 5 speed automatic because most of them 5 speed Tiptronic.
• 1:00:19
  Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  That's a good point.
• 1:00:20
  Mark, what would that car have gone for with a manual, twice that price?
• 1:00:24
  Number, right?
• 1:00:25
  Or close to it.
• 1:00:25
  Oh, yeah, easily.
• 1:00:27
  Let me actually find it.
• 1:00:28
  The other side of that, Ryan, as he's looking this up, what does it go for?
• 1:00:32
  Non turbo?
• 1:00:33
  Well, those C4Ss can be 60, 65, 000 cars now.
• 1:00:37
  Can they not a nice one?
• 1:00:38
  And they were 30, 000 cars five years ago.
• 1:00:40
  No, they were just spot on and they were stuck there for the longest time.
• 1:00:44
  And that was that sort of boom.
• 1:00:45
  All of a sudden there was like a train budged them and they're like, Oh,
• 1:00:48
  we're, we're going now, moving now.
• 1:00:50
  You know, why was that?
• 1:00:51
  Did that suffer from 997s are going up and all of a sudden we can't afford a 997.
• 1:00:56
  There was 993s, et cetera.
• 1:00:57
  They were untouchable.
• 1:00:58
  I think it goes back to what William was saying.
• 1:00:59
  It's this proliferation of folks that are modifying 964s and
• 1:01:05
  993s and Singer and all this.
• 1:01:06
  And so you kind of look in either direction and you go,
• 1:01:08
  well, the super old cars.
• 1:01:09
  Are super old and they're expensive.
• 1:01:11
  You look that way and go, do I want something that modern?
• 1:01:14
  I want a good deal.
• 1:01:15
  I've got 50 grand to spend.
• 1:01:16
  You buy a nine 96.
• 1:01:18
  Right.
• 1:01:18
  Horses for courses.
• 1:01:19
  What are you looking for?
• 1:01:20
  If you're looking for outright speed, you're getting a nine,
• 1:01:22
  nine, six turbo with your 50, 000.
• 1:01:24
  I mean, that's, there's just no other answer to that question.
• 1:01:27
  I'm shocked.
• 1:01:28
  The six speeds don't go for more.
• 1:01:29
  Yeah.
• 1:01:29
  I think it's a reflection of where we are in 2024 right now, 47, 000 miles.
• 1:01:34
  So more than 29, but six speed, very clean.
• 1:01:38
  Nice, tastefully modded.
• 1:01:40
  Looks great.
• 1:01:41
  Was 66 grand.
• 1:01:42
  Really?
• 1:01:43
  We're all going to look back at this episode and say, we all should have
• 1:01:46
  gone out and bought one the next day.
• 1:01:47
  What the hell I'm buying a nine, nine, six turbo speed, like next week.
• 1:01:53
  and if I remember correctly, nine 96.
• 1:01:55
  Was using small turbos, but they were variable vane turbos, similar to the
• 1:02:00
  technology they were using on the diesels at the time over at Volkswagen.
• 1:02:04
  So it was really interesting where they were messing around with
• 1:02:07
  technology, but also using sort of off the shelf parts to make it all work.
• 1:02:11
  You bring up the Volkswagen parts bin and I brought up the Boxster
• 1:02:14
  headlights earlier and I hate to say this, but it almost feels like, and
• 1:02:17
  I really don't know, but it honestly feels like Porsche was really, really
• 1:02:22
  pinching pennies when they brought out.
• 1:02:23
  Yeah.
• 1:02:24
  996.
• 1:02:25
  Those are accountants building those cars, but it costs R and D.
• 1:02:29
  But yeah, it was almost like a hail Mary car when they did that.
• 1:02:33
  Cause they had the Boxster coming out and they were using a lot of those
• 1:02:36
  different parts to save money, but it's still such a Oregon, and you've
• 1:02:40
  got a car that easily runs circles around most Ferraris of the day.
• 1:02:44
  Drop an LS in it!
• 1:02:45
  What?
• 1:02:46
  Dude, I've seen weird stuff in the back of 911s.
• 1:02:50
  There's six of us here if we all chip in.
• 1:02:52
  Yeah.
• 1:02:53
  You know, Mark, I keep looking at that one behind you and I got to tell you, I just
• 1:02:56
  start salivating over that car behind you.
• 1:02:58
  I think that is such a great looking car.
• 1:03:01
  And it's funny because we brought up the hips.
• 1:03:03
  That came out in the SC and how that really turned all of us on.
• 1:03:07
  We love those hips.
• 1:03:08
  And now you look at that 996 behind you, unless you get a C4 S
• 1:03:11
  you're not going to have the hip.
• 1:03:12
  That's what that is.
• 1:03:13
  I saw the nose on it and I kind of wondered, look at that body.
• 1:03:16
  That body is so pure.
• 1:03:18
  It's so simple.
• 1:03:19
  It is just absolutely gorgeous.
• 1:03:21
  It's like a 964.
• 1:03:22
  What are you talking about?
• 1:03:25
  I get hungry for some sausage, a little toast.
• 1:03:28
  Oh, man.
• 1:03:30
  William checked out.
• 1:03:31
  He started taking a nap as soon as we said water cooled.
• 1:03:33
  Would I turn one down if it was a good No, heck no.
• 1:03:35
  As long as someone else dealt with the IMS bearing and dealt with all the stuff.
• 1:03:38
  As long as that stuff's all done, you don't have to Do it, try that thing
• 1:03:41
  all day, just as a daily driver.
• 1:03:43
  I mean, have fun with it.
• 1:03:44
  Beat the heck out of it.
• 1:03:45
  Go cross country, just have a good time with it.
• 1:03:47
  Hit your events with an area like that.
• 1:03:49
  Great, solid car.
• 1:03:50
  You take care of it.
• 1:03:51
  I mean, I want to see if the engines are bulletproof, but
• 1:03:53
  they're pretty bulletproof.
• 1:03:54
  As long as you take care of your stuff, that car will go a
• 1:03:56
  couple hundred thousand miles.
• 1:03:58
  There's no reason not to.
• 1:03:59
  And parts aren't that difficult to come by.
• 1:04:01
  So maintaining it's that thing.
• 1:04:03
  And there's a lot of modifications you can do to it.
• 1:04:05
  It's such a flexible chassis in regards to base you could work from with it.
• 1:04:08
  You can have a lot of fun with it.
• 1:04:09
  Especially if I'm looking to buy my first sports car, whatever, like go
• 1:04:12
  to cars and coffee and go to these events and show it, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:04:16
  You know, it's a great entry to get into those without having to break the bank
• 1:04:20
  or take a second mortgage out on your house or anything like that, because
• 1:04:24
  everyone buys these cars and I think a lot of people forget to take an account.
• 1:04:27
  As well, I also got paid to maintain it.
• 1:04:29
  You know, your annual service costs on those, isn't all that crazy.
• 1:04:32
  Yeah.
• 1:04:32
  You're going to want to put probably a couple of grand a year aside.
• 1:04:36
  Not saying it's going to cost you a couple of grand every year.
• 1:04:38
  It's going to kind of go up and down.
• 1:04:39
  Yeah.
• 1:04:39
  But it's not going to break the bank where, you know, you got certain other
• 1:04:42
  brands that I have an affinity for where you got to put six, seven grand away a
• 1:04:46
  year, because you're going to have that inevitable engine out service coming in.
• 1:04:50
  Blah, blah, blah.
• 1:04:51
  You know?
• 1:04:51
  So it's great card.
• 1:04:52
  I mean, even on those though, even if you got to take the engine out, what is it?
• 1:04:55
  Four bolts, drop that thing out and go.
• 1:04:58
  It's a great car to jump into.
• 1:05:01
  To have some of these young kids in their twenties, whatnot.
• 1:05:03
  Hey, I can jump in for some 30, 40, 50 grand.
• 1:05:05
  It's got low miles, well maintained, everything's done.
• 1:05:08
  I can hit these events when, and you'll get, I would say respect immediately.
• 1:05:11
  I mean, I'd rather have that to buy some like new Supra or something
• 1:05:14
  along those lines like that, because it's got more character.
• 1:05:17
  It's got more of a soul, I guess you could say.
• 1:05:18
  It doesn't have all the BS that you got in this day and age with screens
• 1:05:22
  and all this kind of bullshit.
• 1:05:23
  It's a great analog car.
• 1:05:25
  Yeah.
• 1:05:25
  And you can work on it yourself.
• 1:05:26
  Yeah.
• 1:05:27
  Last of the timeless cars.
• 1:05:28
  Except for those headlights.
• 1:05:29
  Those are super dated.
• 1:05:30
  I'm sorry.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah.
• 1:05:31
  I think you can buy stickers or something that you can put on there.
• 1:05:35
  The 997 isn't too much of a step away from the 997.
• 1:05:38
  Six, the reality of things, it's sort of like C5 into C6, which is
• 1:05:42
  what Don was talking about earlier.
• 1:05:44
  So they straightened it up, they cleaned it up, different headlights
• 1:05:47
  and change the fenders, whatever.
• 1:05:49
  But at the end of the day, nine 97 DNA, I would say that the 0.
• 1:05:53
  2 was vastly different from the nine, nine, six, start to
• 1:05:56
  be a bigger shift between 0.
• 1:05:58
  1 and 0.
• 1:05:58
  2 with that generation.
• 1:05:59
  I mean, I'm probably biased because I used to have a nine, nine, 7.
• 1:06:02
  2.
• 1:06:03
  Good man.
• 1:06:04
  Pretty much the only car I mean, it's, it's longer.
• 1:06:06
  It's a bit wider.
• 1:06:08
  It's changed a lot in the chassis.
• 1:06:09
  They really improved the chassis on that.
• 1:06:11
  In my opinion, you know, if I was going out to buy a Porsche,
• 1:06:15
  I would buy a 997 series GT3.
• 1:06:17
  That's the one.
• 1:06:19
  Ultimate all time favorite modern Porsche, especially the 0.
• 1:06:21
  2, but they're just right.
• 1:06:23
  They're just right.
• 1:06:24
  And the thing is, you know, that too, is you can get an RS, you
• 1:06:26
  can get a manual, and a GT3 RS, and you still have that option.
• 1:06:29
  I just think it, to me, that'd be the one I'd buy.
• 1:06:31
  Yeah, I mean, they're expensive, but not talking half a million dollars, a
• 1:06:34
  million dollars for something stupid.
• 1:06:36
  It's an awesome, awesome car.
• 1:06:38
  That Metzger engine's just, it's the shiznit.
• 1:06:41
  And also the first RS I ever was in was 997.
• 1:06:45
  1, and actually the first one I got to drive.
• 1:06:46
  I like the 997 generation.
• 1:06:48
  I know that since I sold my car and I'm trying to get back in a Porsche, a lot
• 1:06:52
  of people have been trying to convince me to get a 996, but I just can't
• 1:06:55
  seem to take the leap and get the 996.
• 1:06:57
  I feel like I would like to spend more money and even get a 0.
• 1:07:00
  1.
• 1:07:00
  I get personal preference, but I think there was a really big gap between the 0.
• 1:07:04
  2 and 996.
• 1:07:05
  And as an ex owner, I was 50 50 on getting manual or PDK.
• 1:07:09
  And I ended up finding a really nice PDK car, but I couldn't go
• 1:07:12
  for Triptronic cause I hated that.
• 1:07:14
  Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  I like, I didn't like Triptronic on the Boxster it came in.
• 1:07:16
  I didn't like it on the 911 and I drove it a few times.
• 1:07:19
  I didn't like how the shifting wasn't the same as when they incorporated PDK
• 1:07:23
  as far as going upshift and downshift.
• 1:07:25
  That's what really puts some of the modern buyers off.
• 1:07:29
  Cause Porsche's had that PDK for a long time now, and it's become a
• 1:07:32
  big part of the brand that you can just slam through those gears fast.
• 1:07:36
  We call that DSG on the Volkswagen side of the house, just want to let you know.
• 1:07:39
  And those early PDKs weren't that great.
• 1:07:42
  No.
• 1:07:44
  So Tiptronic, that came out in the nine 64s.
• 1:07:47
  I remember with the buttons on the steering wheel, the
• 1:07:49
  nine 68 had that as well.
• 1:07:51
  Ooh, look, I can shift by pushing a button on my steering wheel.
• 1:07:54
  So for me, they looked at the success of the nine, nine, six and the GT three.
• 1:07:57
  And they said, we're just going to take it even further.
• 1:08:00
  I think they got really serious about the whole GT three department.
• 1:08:02
  Once they stepped into the nine, nine, seven generation, you know, it
• 1:08:05
  was like, okay, this is profitable.
• 1:08:06
  So nine, nine, six, we weren't sure what was going to happen.
• 1:08:09
  And then 997, the GT3 department said, this is really profitable.
• 1:08:12
  We got to keep doing this and we're going to do it bigger and better.
• 1:08:15
  Every time that's charged people more for less, stereo
• 1:08:19
  delete, we'll charge you more.
• 1:08:22
  So I was going to say the 996 didn't have the nannies that the 997 by the 0.
• 1:08:25
  2 had.
• 1:08:26
  I mean, that was a really a pure car.
• 1:08:28
  There's really something to be said about a 996 GT3.
• 1:08:30
  I think that's why the 996 is such the last stop in the depot, because
• 1:08:35
  it was the last of the truly analog.
• 1:08:38
  911, 997 came along and yeah, it was close.
• 1:08:41
  It was similar.
• 1:08:42
  It was sort of like going C5 to C6 in the Corvette world, but there
• 1:08:45
  were so many differences that people didn't see beneath the skin.
• 1:08:49
  And the same was there with 996, 997, but the 997 became a much more
• 1:08:53
  digital, a much more technical vehicle.
• 1:08:55
  It started losing, in my opinion, is out of that Porsche purity.
• 1:08:59
  It really did in a drastic measure.
• 1:09:01
  I mean, it had been slowly losing it over time.
• 1:09:04
  I think, uh, the 997 was really kind of a gauntlet.
• 1:09:07
  It really said, Nope, we're going this direction.
• 1:09:10
  And even in the motorsports world, it's sort of interesting because 9 11 kept
• 1:09:15
  getting better, better, and better.
• 1:09:17
  And the engine.
• 1:09:18
  Surprisingly kept getting closer and closer to the driver too.
• 1:09:21
  Right.
• 1:09:21
  Forget which generation it is.
• 1:09:22
  David and I talked about this at Lamar, where it's like, you know, the
• 1:09:25
  engine's facing the wrong direction and this one, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:09:27
  Oh, yeah, it's not really a nine 11.
• 1:09:29
  It's a Cayman all jokes aside, I started to think that it was
• 1:09:33
  this evolution of a bad idea.
• 1:09:35
  And that's why the nine 11 had to get longer.
• 1:09:36
  It had to get wider.
• 1:09:38
  They had to keep inching the engine forward because the balance was wrong.
• 1:09:41
  I mean, what car still has the motor hanging out over the rear end?
• 1:09:45
  Like a nine 11, only a nine 11.
• 1:09:47
  Back in the day, you had the Beatle and the Hillman Imp and the Fiat
• 1:09:49
  850 and all these different cars.
• 1:09:52
  Sure.
• 1:09:52
  But now the 911 kind of stands alone in that department.
• 1:09:56
  But what I'm getting at is in the motorsport world, they kept
• 1:09:59
  making the 911 even better.
• 1:10:02
  And the cars we get on the street outside of the GT3, cause I don't want
• 1:10:05
  to take anything away from GT3 owners.
• 1:10:07
  They're basically the equivalent to the eighties homologated cars, where
• 1:10:11
  you sort of like live the fantasy that you have what the team has.
• 1:10:15
  But it's not really that good compared to what they're racing.
• 1:10:20
  Now, today, 2024, I think maybe less so because there are more
• 1:10:25
  high end 911s being sold that are closer to what is race ready.
• 1:10:30
  Then there was during the nine 96, nine 97 period of nine 11, I read a figure
• 1:10:36
  somewhere that something like, I don't know, it's a large percentage of all
• 1:10:39
  Porsche sports cars that are now GT cars.
• 1:10:41
  It's not 80, 20 anymore, you know, 90, 10.
• 1:10:44
  It's closer to like 40, 60.
• 1:10:45
  I tried to run that down.
• 1:10:47
  Yeah.
• 1:10:48
  And they don't disclose the numbers.
• 1:10:50
  Like they used to.
• 1:10:51
  Okay, so you can go through Stut cars.
• 1:10:54
  Oh, sure.
• 1:10:55
  Yeah.
• 1:10:55
  Like astute guard, like S-T-U-T-T cars.com, and they'll give you volumes by
• 1:11:01
  generation up through like 9, 9 3, 9, 9 6.
• 1:11:04
  And then when you get into the 9, 9, 7, 9, 9 ones.
• 1:11:07
  It's harder to get the volumes.
• 1:11:09
  David looks skeptical.
• 1:11:10
  I hope he's Googling right now.
• 1:11:11
  And he finds something.
• 1:11:12
  I'm looking it up.
• 1:11:12
  I don't want to spread it, you know, misinformation or anything.
• 1:11:17
  I've never done that before.
• 1:11:18
  We're fact checking.
• 1:11:19
  Yeah.
• 1:11:20
  Yeah.
• 1:11:20
  I can only find approximations.
• 1:11:21
  I hope I'm wrong.
• 1:11:22
  Okay.
• 1:11:23
  But what I was finding, there were some on websites, but they
• 1:11:25
  just didn't seem super credible.
• 1:11:27
  You know, I mean, I guess it was just using my spidey sense, but like they
• 1:11:30
  didn't feel that detailed or structured like previous things that I'd seen.
• 1:11:35
  Okay.
• 1:11:35
  And you're looking at like 30 ish thousand 911s a year, and you're
• 1:11:40
  looking at like 5, 000 ish GT3s a year, generally over like the 991 generation.
• 1:11:46
  Like there was obviously a GT2 in that, and you know, there's GT3 RS.
• 1:11:50
  And so to be clear, the 5, 000 was a fraction of the 30, right?
• 1:11:55
  So you're saying it's 30, so 25 and then minus maybe 2, 000 RSs, you know,
• 1:12:00
  however many GT2s that they sold.
• 1:12:02
  And so you're looking at like, what, 20?
• 1:12:04
  Thousand nine 11s.
• 1:12:06
  Like, I don't know.
• 1:12:06
  I mean, I was having a hard time finding as descriptive numbers
• 1:12:10
  as you find previous generation.
• 1:12:12
  It's almost like you got to take convertibles in their own little realm,
• 1:12:16
  like our production number, because if someone's buying a hard top, they're more
• 1:12:20
  than likely going to be getting a GT car.
• 1:12:22
  They're just buying a regular, they're going to buy it.
• 1:12:24
  Convertible, which you can still get a soup or the target or bro.
• 1:12:27
  S yeah.
• 1:12:28
  So I guess you can maybe break down because they got so many variants of
• 1:12:31
  that car, but you probably could take out almost close to almost half of
• 1:12:35
  that production run, be like, what was your convertibles and whatnot.
• 1:12:38
  Those are for your Sunday guys, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:12:40
  You know, just want to say, I own a Porsche, not the purest guys.
• 1:12:42
  We're out there really having some, I'm going to do some driving with this,
• 1:12:45
  go on some rallies, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:12:47
  So I think that if you start breaking them down that way, then you could
• 1:12:50
  see that, yeah, I think a larger percentage technically would be
• 1:12:53
  that they're selling this GT car.
• 1:12:54
  And again, that's where they're making above sticker and they can
• 1:12:57
  charge what the heck they want.
• 1:12:58
  And it's a waiting list.
• 1:12:59
  You gotta be a special customer, da, da, da, and that sounds like a Ferrari.
• 1:13:03
  What are they doing over there?
• 1:13:05
  Yeah, I know.
• 1:13:05
  If I can offer some purchase advice from someone who got a 991.
• 1:13:09
  2 GD3.
• 1:13:11
  Porsche has some weird rules.
• 1:13:12
  So they don't allow GT cars to be on the website.
• 1:13:15
  Rule number one.
• 1:13:16
  So if you go to the dealer website, you won't see a GT car.
• 1:13:19
  And you have to call the dealer to find out if they have what
• 1:13:23
  they have and what's there.
• 1:13:25
  When I was in the market, this was 2018.
• 1:13:27
  So it was a little bit out of date at the time, but I just started calling
• 1:13:31
  around to all the Porsche dealers in the major markets all across LA and Southern
• 1:13:36
  California and through Texas and Atlanta.
• 1:13:38
  And just like, if it sounds like it's a reasonably sized city, I'm going to find
• 1:13:42
  the Porsche dealers and start calling.
• 1:13:43
  And there were definitely GT cars that are out there.
• 1:13:46
  Usually they were cars that customers had walked away from or something,
• 1:13:50
  the dealer had specked out.
• 1:13:51
  So most of them were absurdly specked.
• 1:13:55
  I found mine in Dallas and had the only option on it that I wanted,
• 1:13:58
  which was the extended fuel tank.
• 1:14:00
  It had the six speed and the extended fuel tank.
• 1:14:01
  That was all I wanted.
• 1:14:02
  The GT game is an interesting one.
• 1:14:04
  If you just go to your local dealer, that's not the best way to play that game.
• 1:14:08
  And it's true that the dealers are not out to provide good service.
• 1:14:12
  Like the dealers are out to make money.
• 1:14:14
  They're making 20, 40, 50 grand per car.
• 1:14:17
  Like the amount of the dealers make, even on just selling
• 1:14:20
  cars at MSRP is kind of crazy.
• 1:14:22
  Your dealer is not your friend.
• 1:14:23
  No.
• 1:14:24
  Call around.
• 1:14:25
  Go through the Google maps and find dealers and call around
• 1:14:29
  and you'll benefit from it.
• 1:14:30
  And I'm glad we went down this path because as Mark and I were putting the
• 1:14:33
  show notes together for this, it was one of the things we had in the notes
• 1:14:37
  was this perception of more GT cars for sale today than there is base 911s.
• 1:14:41
  But I think Ryan made a very valid point in that perception is reality.
• 1:14:46
  And so if you think about it, even if the numbers don't fact check, When
• 1:14:50
  you go to a car show or you go to a track event these days or anything,
• 1:14:54
  and somebody shows up with a nine 11, chances are that's a two headed coin.
• 1:14:59
  You either way you flip it, it's a GT three or GT three RS.
• 1:15:02
  You never see a regular nine 11 or just a turbo cab or what age they sort
• 1:15:07
  of don't exist, but they do exist.
• 1:15:09
  They've become so commonplace that I think the perception is.
• 1:15:13
  Well, if you're buying a Porsche, you're just going to buy a GT3.
• 1:15:16
  And I feel like those are the ones that are perpetually for sale.
• 1:15:18
  I think also some of the problem is once you get into Porsche, so if you haven't
• 1:15:20
  been into Porsche as a kid, and let's say you get into Porsche as an adult, right?
• 1:15:24
  What do you go out and do?
• 1:15:25
  You do what, what our buddy Ty did, right?
• 1:15:26
  He went out and bought, I think a nine, six, four cab lives by a track
• 1:15:29
  has a nine, six, four cab immediately realizes it's not good enough, right?
• 1:15:34
  Then he switches and he was like, all right, do the turbo.
• 1:15:36
  It's a turbo.
• 1:15:37
  Then he starts getting like training and then he realized that's not good enough.
• 1:15:39
  Then he gets into the GT platform and then he just continues to buy
• 1:15:42
  because he's got the means, of course.
• 1:15:44
  And I find that living close to a track, when I do go to track days,
• 1:15:47
  or I do hang out at road Atlanta with like DCRA, the people who are just
• 1:15:51
  getting into track days, just getting into motor sports and they bring.
• 1:15:54
  A base Porsche, or they bring maybe just a turbo and then they get put in the
• 1:15:58
  beginner group and they're feeling bad because they're in the beginner group.
• 1:16:01
  And like everybody else in their GT cars is in the advanced group.
• 1:16:04
  And they spend the whole day behind an instructor.
• 1:16:06
  And then they start saying, well, what do I have to do?
• 1:16:09
  Or they'll get a ride along in a GT car.
• 1:16:11
  And then four or five months later, person of means we'll go and get a GT car.
• 1:16:14
  Or they'll go get a GT4 or something like that.
• 1:16:16
  And then they keep stepping up because I think once you start
• 1:16:19
  tracking your Porsche, you realize you need something more in the GT,
• 1:16:23
  like at least a modern one, right?
• 1:16:24
  If you're not doing historical racing or not doing anything like that.
• 1:16:27
  So I think that's one of the reasons that you feel that you go to track
• 1:16:29
  days and you go to things is that.
• 1:16:31
  You're seeing a lot of GT products because they are that good.
• 1:16:34
  They are the ones you want at a track and you'll quickly know it.
• 1:16:37
  You know, same thing for the BMW.
• 1:16:38
  When I first bought my original BMW, I just had an E90 and I took it to a track.
• 1:16:43
  And within six months, I realized I better get a track focused car, right?
• 1:16:47
  So I kept that.
• 1:16:48
  And then I bought.
• 1:16:49
  My track focused BMW, which had the roll cage and everything
• 1:16:52
  was prepared for the track.
• 1:16:53
  I think that's one of the issues, and these cars are meant to be driven.
• 1:16:56
  So once you get into that, you will realize immediately
• 1:16:58
  that you need to transition.
• 1:16:59
  And here's where we step back to Corvette for a moment.
• 1:17:02
  Because people are spending six figures plus on these 911s to go to the
• 1:17:08
  track, whether it's HPDE or whatever.
• 1:17:10
  You don't see GT3s club racing, right?
• 1:17:12
  Because that's too dangerous, realistically.
• 1:17:13
  So at these HPDE events, The Corvette is sort of there.
• 1:17:17
  The C8 is a six figure car, depending on demand and which year you bought
• 1:17:21
  it and all those kinds of things.
• 1:17:22
  But we talked about this the last time, right?
• 1:17:24
  The hope and the prayer and the wish is that there's a GT3 version
• 1:17:28
  of the Corvette C8 coming at some point that hasn't existed up until
• 1:17:32
  this point in the Corvette world.
• 1:17:33
  There's been Z06 and there's ZR1 and there's this and that, but
• 1:17:36
  it's always like, let's throw more horsepower at the same chassis and
• 1:17:39
  tires and all this kind of thing.
• 1:17:41
  But you have to respect that for a minute, because when you go to the track
• 1:17:44
  and you look at the battles on track, you've got this guy in his lowly Z06
• 1:17:49
  being towed by a 911 GT3 out on track.
• 1:17:52
  And you look at the price discrepancy and he's got a GM and he's got a
• 1:17:56
  Porsche and you're like, it does not compute the Corvette's just as good
• 1:18:00
  as, and I'm not trying to take anything away from the Porsche because it's
• 1:18:03
  superior, but sort of the Corvette's the underdog in this equation.
• 1:18:07
  What does it for me is that I've sort of been.
• 1:18:10
  Tainted by the new Porsches because there's so many GT threes and I'm like,
• 1:18:14
  uh, you know, they've achieved that hypercar status and that's wonderful.
• 1:18:18
  I applaud them for it.
• 1:18:20
  But then I turned to look at the guy with the Corvette.
• 1:18:22
  And as Mark said in the last episode, that's the dream car
• 1:18:25
  they've saved up for that.
• 1:18:26
  That's what they bought.
• 1:18:26
  And they got it.
• 1:18:27
  Kick ass car for a lot less money than the nine 11.
• 1:18:31
  And so now we start to diverge, but when we look at it as the every man
• 1:18:35
  buyer, where do you put your money?
• 1:18:37
  Well, if I can interject here, just a little bit, I get what you're saying.
• 1:18:43
  The one thing I'm just going to throw out there and it goes on both sides of
• 1:18:46
  the fence, it goes in the Corvette side and it goes on the Porsche side from
• 1:18:49
  what I've seen, and I'm not a tracker.
• 1:18:51
  I don't race.
• 1:18:51
  I don't do any of that.
• 1:18:52
  I noticed a lot of their GT3s, GT2s, GT4s, whatever the hell they are.
• 1:18:57
  And they're vicious.
• 1:18:58
  They're absolutely incredible.
• 1:19:00
  But the guys that I talked to who have them, they've either never tracked them.
• 1:19:03
  They don't intend to track them or they tracked them once, maybe twice.
• 1:19:06
  And that was really cool.
• 1:19:07
  That was fun, but they're done.
• 1:19:08
  And now they just don't drive them.
• 1:19:10
  They just don't.
• 1:19:11
  It kind of falls on the same side with the ZR1, the Z06, because what
• 1:19:15
  you've got is one of these cars that.
• 1:19:17
  As you said way earlier in the conversation, they require
• 1:19:20
  your attention pretty closely.
• 1:19:21
  I think the Corvette's a lot more forgiving than any of the Porsches.
• 1:19:24
  And I think it's a lot more of a crossover car where if you just want to be the
• 1:19:28
  yuppie with the super fast, super cool looking Corvette, yeah, you can do that.
• 1:19:31
  You can drive that car every day.
• 1:19:33
  It's not going to beat the hell out of you.
• 1:19:34
  Porsche is going to beat the hell out of you.
• 1:19:35
  And I think that's really, really interesting.
• 1:19:38
  There are so many GT threes out there on the market.
• 1:19:40
  There's so many of these people that have them, but I think the majority
• 1:19:43
  of them are posers who want to show up to cars and coffee and have this
• 1:19:47
  amazing, amazing instrument of a car.
• 1:19:50
  And they don't know how to use it.
• 1:19:52
  You know, I mean, let's face it, Eric, if I got a GT three hell, if I even
• 1:19:55
  got a ZR And you took a ride with me.
• 1:19:58
  You'd probably laugh your ass off because I'm not going to be able to control
• 1:20:00
  that car as well as you would, because you've got more training than I do.
• 1:20:03
  I'm not a tracker.
• 1:20:04
  I don't do that stuff.
• 1:20:05
  So when I look at these, you know, they wear the little baseball cap and
• 1:20:08
  they've got their little polo shirt with some sort of reptile on the breast
• 1:20:11
  and they're all tucked in and they've got their little deck shoes and And
• 1:20:14
  they got their little Starbucks coffee.
• 1:20:16
  They look like a stiff wind would blow them over, but by God, they've got the
• 1:20:19
  King of the Hill at Cars and Coffee.
• 1:20:20
  They've got the GT3, the GT4, they've got the ZR1, they've got the Z06, but
• 1:20:24
  again, I root for the Z06 or the ZR1 just because it's a Jekyll and Hyde car.
• 1:20:29
  If you treat it nice, if you treat it docile, it's not going to beat you up.
• 1:20:32
  But if you want to get rough.
• 1:20:33
  It'll get rough with you.
• 1:20:34
  Did you hear that Mark?
• 1:20:35
  He pulled the poser card on you.
• 1:20:37
  You're going to let that stand.
• 1:20:38
  Mark, are you a poser?
• 1:20:40
  I have a 991.
• 1:20:40
  2 G3 with the manual.
• 1:20:43
  The one with the two air intakes in the back.
• 1:20:45
  Yeah.
• 1:20:45
  The two little suckers.
• 1:20:46
  It's a really good one.
• 1:20:47
  Yeah, it's a really good one.
• 1:20:48
  Well, that was, I was telling you, Eric, at some point we got to
• 1:20:50
  start telling people we have a 0.
• 1:20:51
  5.
• 1:20:52
  Yeah.
• 1:20:52
  Right.
• 1:20:52
  So the people are like, wait, wait, you have a 11, what?
• 1:20:55
  It was the poor man's 9 11 arm.
• 1:20:57
  Right.
• 1:20:57
  It was the four liter and the six speed that did me in.
• 1:21:00
  I wanted the spoiler in the back.
• 1:21:02
  I didn't want the touring pack because my nine 30 that I put on
• 1:21:05
  a poster on my wall as a kid had a big spoiler on the whale tail.
• 1:21:08
  Yeah.
• 1:21:09
  So that's what I wanted.
• 1:21:10
  Honestly, I think there's a fair amount of validity to what Don was saying,
• 1:21:13
  but I think we have to remember where we are from being under assault as a
• 1:21:18
  community of automobile enthusiasts, as.
• 1:21:21
  Kids get their licenses later and later and electric cars try to sap this element
• 1:21:26
  of car culture and whatnot that like, I don't like the gatekeeping aspect of it.
• 1:21:31
  Like you like your car.
• 1:21:32
  Great.
• 1:21:32
  That's cool with me.
• 1:21:33
  If you like your car, you're passionate about your vehicle.
• 1:21:35
  That's great.
• 1:21:36
  There is something to be said for the amount of volume that they're selling
• 1:21:40
  with GT cars relative to how many of those are really going to track events.
• 1:21:44
  Definitely.
• 1:21:45
  The flip side of that though, you could go in the other direction where
• 1:21:48
  it beats you up in a modern context.
• 1:21:51
  But not relative to what like old tightly sprung cars used to do.
• 1:21:55
  Like I agree with that.
• 1:21:56
  It's really not like my take on my GD3.
• 1:21:59
  You know, I did some autocross and I did some stuff with it, but I really
• 1:22:02
  haven't done much track with it.
• 1:22:03
  I take it out.
• 1:22:04
  I'm a morning person.
• 1:22:05
  I wake up at 5am, no alarm.
• 1:22:06
  And so Saturday, Sunday, I'm on the road by 530.
• 1:22:10
  I'm home by seven.
• 1:22:10
  I do a little 90 minute drive Saturday and Sunday in my car.
• 1:22:14
  And to me, it's everything I ever wanted.
• 1:22:17
  out of a sports car.
• 1:22:18
  And then on Saturdays, I take my SUV and I take my two girls to cars and coffee.
• 1:22:22
  I've never taken my GD three to cars and coffee because I want to take my kids.
• 1:22:26
  I love that.
• 1:22:26
  But the point being is that like, from an enthusiast perspective with
• 1:22:30
  the manual transmission, I think is important because if you're on a track,
• 1:22:33
  if you're untrained, it's a degree of a liability with a car like that, right?
• 1:22:37
  The weight change and the G that you're under, like, are you going
• 1:22:40
  to put it in the wrong gear?
• 1:22:41
  You're going to blow your 50, 000 motor that you have to replace because you
• 1:22:45
  put it into third instead of fifth.
• 1:22:46
  It is honestly a serious consideration.
• 1:22:49
  I mean, I think if I was going to do more track stuff, I would
• 1:22:51
  have done a PDK, but I would push back on the suspension narrative.
• 1:22:55
  It's like, yeah, my wife doesn't like riding in it because it's tightly sprung,
• 1:22:58
  but compared to even my 85 Carrera, which admittedly I had suspension work done on
• 1:23:04
  it, but that was harsher than my modern 991, you know, it's a relative term.
• 1:23:08
  Yeah.
• 1:23:09
  The Corvette benefits a lot from its magnetic shocks.
• 1:23:12
  That are able to change profiles and do things differently.
• 1:23:16
  But I think with the mechanical differential that comes in the manual, as
• 1:23:19
  opposed to the electric diff, it changes the character of the car and it makes it
• 1:23:22
  to me, the sports car I always wanted.
• 1:23:25
  Well, there's one generation left and that's the current one, the nine nine two.
• 1:23:30
  And as you guys mentioned, dot this and dot that.
• 1:23:32
  And the other thing, I mean, I remember the days of.
• 1:23:34
  85 and a half because of the half year splits and all this kind of stuff.
• 1:23:37
  So now he's got these dot ones and dot twos.
• 1:23:39
  Cause I guess we've run out of numbers in the 900 scale over at Porsche.
• 1:23:43
  And that's fine.
• 1:23:44
  They're like software releases, right?
• 1:23:46
  So 992 for me is sort of like the C8, born right on the auspices of COVID.
• 1:23:53
  Hard to get cars in that 2020 year, although Porsche didn't
• 1:23:56
  seem to have as many problems as GM did and Ford and others trying
• 1:23:59
  to get cars out during 20 and 21.
• 1:24:02
  I still don't like it.
• 1:24:03
  It's really big.
• 1:24:04
  It's really wide.
• 1:24:06
  The Targa is probably the worst looking one, in my opinion.
• 1:24:09
  I mean, I'm not convinced on 992 yet.
• 1:24:11
  Horses always take a little time.
• 1:24:13
  I feel like they're just a step ahead of us.
• 1:24:15
  And a couple of years in, they really come into their own, but they are big.
• 1:24:18
  They are a little detached and I've driven a few of them now.
• 1:24:21
  I've not driven the GT3, but after a couple of GTSs and some
• 1:24:24
  other models, T, when I get back into my GT4, all is good again.
• 1:24:27
  I love the idea of a 992 for a special car.
• 1:24:30
  For me, it's just a little much.
• 1:24:32
  It's just a little too much in every direction.
• 1:24:33
  A little too big, a little too detached, a little too much power.
• 1:24:36
  For me personally, but I'm wondering if in a couple of years, we'll look back at them
• 1:24:39
  and say, Oh man, those were really good.
• 1:24:41
  Like, boy, they knew what they were doing.
• 1:24:42
  I guess it depends on what comes next, which Porsche hasn't hinted at yet.
• 1:24:46
  In our previous episode about Corvette, you know, we talked about C7, you talked
• 1:24:50
  about how the C7 had gone as far as it could, there was just nothing else that
• 1:24:55
  Chevy and Corvette and GM could really do with that chassis, do with that
• 1:24:59
  motor, do with, you know, whatever that package, it was kind of spent, it was
• 1:25:03
  kind of done so that they needed the C8.
• 1:25:06
  I think this generation of 9 11 is a classic example of why the
• 1:25:11
  C8 needed to come out, because I can't stand the new 9 11.
• 1:25:15
  It is just a fat toad.
• 1:25:17
  And yeah, it does a lot of really cool technical stuff with its
• 1:25:20
  top and all this yin yang doodad.
• 1:25:22
  It is actually pretty impressive.
• 1:25:24
  But, ah, the thing is just a boat.
• 1:25:27
  Okay, yes, the 992 is a bit of a fatty.
• 1:25:30
  They at least made it bigger for a very specific reason.
• 1:25:33
  Front suspension geometry is totally different, and that's largely driven
• 1:25:36
  by what they wanted to do with the GT3, so that tells you the importance
• 1:25:40
  of the GT3 line relative to the car.
• 1:25:42
  But the only sports car, or at least car that claims to be a sports car
• 1:25:45
  that is bigger in every dimension and fatter would be the C8 Corvette.
• 1:25:49
  So there's that.
• 1:25:50
  I mean, you can't call the 992 a big fatty without kind of acknowledging that the
• 1:25:54
  C8 is heavier and bigger in every way.
• 1:25:57
  Let's just be fair.
• 1:25:59
  Them's fighting words.
• 1:26:00
  Are you all down over there?
• 1:26:02
  Mr.
• 1:26:02
  Shank?
• 1:26:03
  These are simple statistics, like you can just look . These,
• 1:26:07
  you can find on the internet.
• 1:26:09
  These, you can find numbers, you can look at the wheel base.
• 1:26:12
  You can look at the front track.
• 1:26:13
  You can look the length with, no, I mean, the fact that the Carrera s.
• 1:26:18
  Is beating the Corvette on a power to weight ratio?
• 1:26:22
  That's new for this generation.
• 1:26:23
  Come on.
• 1:26:25
  It's about time, isn't it?
• 1:26:26
  Well, we all know the C8 is severely underpowered compared to other Corvettes.
• 1:26:31
  So it is.
• 1:26:32
  They're going to fix that real quick.
• 1:26:34
  No fix.
• 1:26:34
  I'm a C8 fan.
• 1:26:35
  I'd like to be clear.
• 1:26:36
  We've also all seen the ZR1, right?
• 1:26:39
  You guys are familiar with the new ZR1?
• 1:26:41
  Oh yeah.
• 1:26:41
  Hello.
• 1:26:42
  I mean, we're putting out train horsepower now.
• 1:26:44
  This is like naval horsepower.
• 1:26:45
  Yeah.
• 1:26:46
  And yet that car interests me not at all.
• 1:26:48
  When it comes to, yeah, it's a fatty and it comes to the C8 being
• 1:26:52
  a fatty and the 99, whatever the hell that Opel is over there.
• 1:26:55
  They're both fatties.
• 1:26:56
  That's fine.
• 1:26:57
  Going into the evolution and we had to change the suspension and we had to
• 1:27:00
  change this and we had to change that.
• 1:27:01
  Great.
• 1:27:02
  Porsche took a huge step and it was an ugly step for them.
• 1:27:06
  When they took the 9 11 water cool, we all know we were all there.
• 1:27:10
  And some of you all, you know, you pray to Portia and then you
• 1:27:12
  pray to whoever you pray to.
• 1:27:14
  When they went water, every one of you was, Oh my God.
• 1:27:19
  You know, it was a big deal when Mr.
• 1:27:21
  Mulholland started bringing his product in to cool off that little car.
• 1:27:24
  But you know what, you survived and that car got better.
• 1:27:28
  I hate to admit it, cause you all know I love the 930 and that
• 1:27:31
  particular generation of Porsche, but it survived and it did better.
• 1:27:35
  It thrived.
• 1:27:36
  And I really wish Porsche would just shut the hell up and develop
• 1:27:40
  a damn car that didn't sit there and say, we were developed in
• 1:27:43
  1964 and we still have the 1964.
• 1:27:47
  You know what?
• 1:27:48
  It's old, it's over.
• 1:27:50
  I get where Don's coming from with this because 9 11 suffers from the same
• 1:27:55
  systemic issue that Mustang suffers from.
• 1:27:58
  Oh, the S650 blah, blah, blah, goes all the way back to Iacocca
• 1:28:03
  in 1963, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:28:05
  And they're holding onto that legacy.
• 1:28:07
  And I get that versus Corvette.
• 1:28:09
  When we talked about it the last time, it's sort of like 1983, eh, screw it.
• 1:28:13
  Throw it all in the trash, start over again.
• 1:28:15
  And Corvette's done that a bunch of times.
• 1:28:17
  And C8 isn't the first time.
• 1:28:19
  I gotta give credit where credit is due, where GM sort of sees the writing
• 1:28:24
  on the wall and says, you know what, too much of a good thing, not so much.
• 1:28:28
  Let's turn a page and try something different.
• 1:28:30
  That's why I joke 9 11 is the constant refinement and evolution of a bad idea.
• 1:28:35
  It's okay.
• 1:28:36
  It's gotten better.
• 1:28:36
  It's awesome.
• 1:28:37
  It's amazing.
• 1:28:37
  And I appreciate it for what it is because it does kick, but it's very difficult
• 1:28:41
  to challenge Porsche like it is to challenge Ferrari and things like that.
• 1:28:45
  You've all seen the meme.
• 1:28:46
  I'm sure it comes around on Facebook.
• 1:28:48
  It's two pictures put together.
• 1:28:50
  One of them is Roseanne Barr.
• 1:28:51
  The other one's Madonna.
• 1:28:52
  And it says, I never thought I'd live to see the day where Roseanne
• 1:28:56
  Barr was better looking than Madonna.
• 1:28:57
  That.
• 1:28:59
  That is what has become of the 9 11.
• 1:29:01
  The 9 11 is Madonna.
• 1:29:02
  It had been plastic surgery so many times.
• 1:29:05
  It is now an opal.
• 1:29:07
  Look at that picture behind Mark.
• 1:29:09
  It is an opal.
• 1:29:10
  But it's still the fantasy of Madonna, right?
• 1:29:13
  And that's what we're buying at the end of the day.
• 1:29:15
  Unbelievable.
• 1:29:16
  But just for our listeners who don't have the video feed from Patreon or
• 1:29:20
  whatever, what Don keeps making fun of, he's probably the only person on the
• 1:29:24
  internet, Who's made fun of the Dakar 911.
• 1:29:27
  I think Porsche should get a lot of credit for making a rally
• 1:29:30
  version of a modern sports car.
• 1:29:33
  It is in a very light shade of blue, which were you, you calling it teal?
• 1:29:38
  Opel?
• 1:29:39
  Sure.
• 1:29:39
  Fair enough.
• 1:29:40
  No, no, no.
• 1:29:40
  He meant it looks like an Opel GT from the seventies, which is just a
• 1:29:45
  small Corvette, but we won't go there.
• 1:29:48
  It's a C3 that got strong.
• 1:29:50
  I see where you're going with that, Don.
• 1:29:52
  But the problem is.
• 1:29:53
  Porsche's flagship is the 911, and it got to the point, like Mark sort of hinted
• 1:29:58
  at earlier, that with 928, 944, and this and that, even though maybe they were
• 1:30:03
  superior, the idea was to be better.
• 1:30:05
  They put all their eggs in 911.
• 1:30:07
  Nothing shall beat the 911.
• 1:30:09
  Right.
• 1:30:09
  Realistically, payment is a better platform.
• 1:30:11
  Form at the end of the day.
• 1:30:12
  But to succumb to the idea that they're gonna do away with the rear engine,
• 1:30:18
  rear mount las layout of a nine 11 and go the way Corvet did with the
• 1:30:22
  C eight, that means they'd have to give up on nine 11 altogether and
• 1:30:25
  admit that the Cayman is a better car.
• 1:30:28
  'cause it is.
• 1:30:28
  And my joke is that they finally got the nine 14 right with the Cayman, right?
• 1:30:32
  After so many years, that's not gonna happen.
• 1:30:34
  So the question becomes.
• 1:30:36
  What is next for 9 11, which we don't know, after 60 years of production,
• 1:30:41
  what are they going to do with the ninth generation of the 9 11, other
• 1:30:45
  than make it bigger and wider, or has it just become the take hand, because the
• 1:30:48
  take hand sort of looks like the next generation 9 11, if you think about it.
• 1:30:51
  I think they teased it a little bit by leaving space for a hybrid system.
• 1:30:55
  But also what they're doing with the dot two GTS.
• 1:30:58
  So if you've been keeping up, they're incorporating the electrical power train.
• 1:31:02
  It's not a typical hybrid in the way you think.
• 1:31:04
  And I think that's the next evolution to the nine 11.
• 1:31:07
  I think they're kind of testing it out with the GTS waters and then
• 1:31:10
  they're going to bring it to that.
• 1:31:11
  A derivative of the MGU that they were trying to develop for formula one.
• 1:31:15
  This is something different.
• 1:31:16
  They're using the electrical power plant almost as like a torque filler.
• 1:31:19
  Isn't that the same idea behind the E Ray?
• 1:31:21
  Isn't it?
• 1:31:21
  Aren't they doing the same thing?
• 1:31:22
  I'm not sure, but from what the reviews are is, is that the way
• 1:31:26
  they do it is uniquely to Porsche.
• 1:31:29
  Oh, well, of course.
• 1:31:30
  I mean, the E Ray has gotten very decent reviews, right?
• 1:31:33
  But I heard that it has a feeling of almost an NA engine with the 911 and the
• 1:31:37
  way they're doing the torque filling.
• 1:31:38
  So I think that's the next evolution.
• 1:31:40
  Of course, it's been working on the electrical hybrid stuff since I
• 1:31:42
  started an industry back in like 2011.
• 1:31:44
  They didn't release it.
• 1:31:45
  You know, I told you there was fully electric man 11s running
• 1:31:47
  around the company back in 2012.
• 1:31:50
  There's a reason they're not doing it.
• 1:31:51
  And then they're also looking at the landscape of what's
• 1:31:53
  going on with hydrogen.
• 1:31:55
  And I think they're going to maybe stick with the seven 18 to having that fully
• 1:31:59
  electric, but I don't see them fully electrifying the nine 11 anytime soon.
• 1:32:03
  Yeah.
• 1:32:03
  They're investing heavy in those synthetic fuels, sustainable fuel, whatever down
• 1:32:06
  was that Brazil built that huge plant.
• 1:32:08
  Uh, my thing, I hope that goes the route, you know, that, Hey, you can
• 1:32:11
  still build the, uh, any engine you got that the Germans like South America.
• 1:32:16
  Um, but
• 1:32:22
  But I think that's the work around.
• 1:32:23
  I think it's that synthetic fuel because what is a nine 11 if it's
• 1:32:26
  not a flat six rear engine car?
• 1:32:29
  And my God, when was the last time there was a, another rear engine car
• 1:32:32
  on the earth that was being produced?
• 1:32:34
  It's shocking that they've been able to do it as long as they have.
• 1:32:36
  And to your point, David, I think that they'll keep dialing out the nine 11
• 1:32:40
  this while still keeping it a nine 11.
• 1:32:42
  Exactly.
• 1:32:43
  That's right.
• 1:32:44
  Just like with Corvette, we don't know what the future holds for Porsche.
• 1:32:47
  And I'm excited to see what comes next.
• 1:32:49
  Although I hope, maybe, like a lot of other halo cars,
• 1:32:53
  they find their roots again.
• 1:32:54
  It's not just Porsche.
• 1:32:56
  It's not just Corvette.
• 1:32:57
  It's Mazda.
• 1:32:58
  It's Volkswagen.
• 1:32:59
  BMW.
• 1:33:00
  Yeah, BMW.
• 1:33:01
  You look at all of them.
• 1:33:02
  They all suffer from the same thing.
• 1:33:04
  They call it progress.
• 1:33:06
  Let's just call it another model and sort of maybe reboot or do something different.
• 1:33:10
  I got a trivia question though.
• 1:33:12
  Mark, you probably know the answer to this though.
• 1:33:14
  What other manufacturer did Porsche design a water cooled engine for?
• 1:33:19
  Oh, I know.
• 1:33:20
  You got it?
• 1:33:20
  Okay.
• 1:33:21
  You don't know this one, Mark?
• 1:33:22
  No, I don't think so.
• 1:33:23
  I mean, I could guess, but I don't know.
• 1:33:24
  It's got two wheels.
• 1:33:25
  Harley Davidson.
• 1:33:26
  There you go.
• 1:33:27
  The V Rod.
• 1:33:28
  Even they saw the light.
• 1:33:30
  I know they all said some of that cars were going water cool.
• 1:33:33
  A lot of people don't realize that that V Rod, that motor
• 1:33:35
  is a, it's a Porsche motor.
• 1:33:36
  Actually, Porsche did a lot of engineering for the V Rod.
• 1:33:38
  It was a lot more than just the, uh, the engine.
• 1:33:40
  They also did the brakes.
• 1:33:41
  They helped with the suspension geometry.
• 1:33:43
  The V Rod was a real technical piece of machinery.
• 1:33:46
  It's weird to me that Harley would go to Porsche.
• 1:33:50
  Yeah.
• 1:33:50
  I know they're a consulting company, but here's a company who refuses to evolve.
• 1:33:54
  I mean, they absolutely refuse.
• 1:33:55
  We are not going to take the engine out of the back.
• 1:33:57
  We are not going to make it a mid engine.
• 1:33:59
  We are not going to evolve at all.
• 1:34:00
  We are going to keep, as Eric says, evolving a bad idea.
• 1:34:03
  And yet Harley goes to them and says, we want to evolutionize a motorcycle.
• 1:34:06
  Yeah, no problem.
• 1:34:07
  Let's do that.
• 1:34:07
  Yeah, Porsche and Ferrari are similar in that respect.
• 1:34:11
  They make the money so they can go racing, but they're an engineering company first.
• 1:34:16
  They are a car company by proxy versus GM is a car company that goes racing and
• 1:34:22
  does engineer it's the other way around.
• 1:34:24
  And so I appreciate that.
• 1:34:26
  And that's where you get into the weird stories of Porsche helping to design
• 1:34:30
  the Mercedes 500 E working on the Audi RS2 Avant, building diesel tractors
• 1:34:35
  back in the day, you know, they got all these projects and all these.
• 1:34:37
  Things because they're an engineering company at the end of the day.
• 1:34:40
  So that's, what's interesting, but that's, what's also confusing about nine 11.
• 1:34:45
  Whereas Corvette is designed for the American dream.
• 1:34:49
  It's designed for the consumer.
• 1:34:50
  It's designed for the enthusiasts.
• 1:34:51
  Not that nine 11 isn't a lifestyle, but Corvette is a lifestyle.
• 1:34:55
  People aspire, as Mark said on the last episode to own a Corvette.
• 1:34:59
  I'm not saying that people don't aspire to own nine 11s, but it's different.
• 1:35:02
  And it's attainable at a different way with that thinking in mind, knowing
• 1:35:06
  what we know now, before we sort of turn the tables for our lightning round,
• 1:35:11
  would you buy a Porsche or a Corvette?
• 1:35:13
  Does it matter what model?
• 1:35:14
  No.
• 1:35:15
  Before we spend our a hundred grand, if you just had to pay.
• 1:35:18
  Would you spend it with Porsche or would you spend it with Corvette?
• 1:35:22
  Porsche.
• 1:35:22
  As hard a time as I give Porsche.
• 1:35:24
  I do love Porsche.
• 1:35:25
  I always have.
• 1:35:26
  It was really working for Mecham that trained me on the Corvette and I
• 1:35:30
  had nothing against Corvette either.
• 1:35:31
  But learning about them is really what made me such an enthusiast about them.
• 1:35:36
  But I still have all the respect in the world for Porsche.
• 1:35:38
  But I think if I had my money, if I would go with a Corvette, if for no
• 1:35:42
  other reason, they have proven to be more reliable on many different occasions.
• 1:35:46
  They are absolutely neck and neck with Porsche when it comes to performance.
• 1:35:50
  We've had this discussion before about my Ford driving across country.
• 1:35:53
  I love seeing all the dealerships out there.
• 1:35:55
  My God, if that Corvette, anything goes wrong with it.
• 1:35:58
  There's a dealership.
• 1:35:58
  I know there's enough Porsche dealerships out there, but look, when you go to
• 1:36:02
  certain States, there are no Porsche dealerships, or maybe there's one.
• 1:36:06
  So you're in the wrong side of the state and you're going to have that tow truck.
• 1:36:09
  Wow.
• 1:36:09
  The tow truck alone is going to cost two grand to get to wherever you're going.
• 1:36:13
  Corvette, you're going to have a lot more serviceability.
• 1:36:15
  Again, I do really have a hard time saying no to 996.
• 1:36:19
  If this is just a Porsche discussion, I go with 996 all day long.
• 1:36:23
  All right.
• 1:36:24
  So William, Porsche, Don Corvette, David, you're going to go Porsche.
• 1:36:28
  I mean, that's a no brainer because of the, what the brand has had an
• 1:36:31
  effect on me personally and my career.
• 1:36:34
  But I'm the opposite.
• 1:36:35
  Like I'm the guy who would drive my RS to church and park
• 1:36:37
  it away from everybody else.
• 1:36:38
  Right.
• 1:36:38
  I'm the guy who's driving, I drive like the nine 30 turbo to the coffee shop, just
• 1:36:42
  cause I can, I want to use my Porsche.
• 1:36:44
  I don't have that kind of money, but use it.
• 1:36:46
  However much I want to, and to say, damn the torpedoes and enjoy the hell
• 1:36:50
  out of it, because that's all I wanted.
• 1:36:51
  I grew up as a kid on a bus stop and a kid where my dad
• 1:36:54
  picked the absolute worst cars.
• 1:36:56
  He would never listen to anything I said.
• 1:36:58
  You know, he had no idea and, and me, I'm sitting at bus stops and standing
• 1:37:02
  at bus stops throughout my whole life, even through college, like I
• 1:37:04
  didn't get my first car until college.
• 1:37:06
  And then I got on my own and I'm the kid who was like, always wanted something.
• 1:37:09
  I always wanted my dad to have something cool.
• 1:37:11
  I always wanted like a cousin, have something cool.
• 1:37:12
  They never had it.
• 1:37:13
  So for me, it's the dream of having a Porsche, the dream of Porsche ownership.
• 1:37:16
  And when I finally got it, yeah, I used the hell out of my Porsche, man.
• 1:37:19
  I would have continued to track it.
• 1:37:20
  And if I had an RS or a GT3, I'm going to track it forever.
• 1:37:24
  And I have nobody to tell me no currently.
• 1:37:25
  So that's just me.
• 1:37:27
  But everybody's not built that way.
• 1:37:28
  I get it.
• 1:37:29
  And I personally, I respect what GM has done with the Corvette.
• 1:37:32
  I respect the fact that they're still racing.
• 1:37:34
  I respect that they've got programs.
• 1:37:36
  And as we get older, I think there's room for all the enthusiasts.
• 1:37:39
  Like Mark said, I can start to appreciate that.
• 1:37:41
  Maybe as a kid, I couldn't always appreciate certain brands and
• 1:37:44
  what they brought to the table.
• 1:37:45
  But the older I get, I'm like car culture in general is so great.
• 1:37:48
  Absolutely.
• 1:37:48
  For me, it's, it's going to be Porsche.
• 1:37:50
  I'm a Porsche guy.
• 1:37:50
  I mean, I've owned few now, never owned a Corvette much like David.
• 1:37:54
  I didn't grow up with Porsches, but I guess it's, it's those intangibles.
• 1:37:57
  Do you like redheads versus blondes or whatever?
• 1:37:59
  I don't know why I just like Porsches.
• 1:38:02
  I tend to like the people who like Porsches and honestly, the Porsches
• 1:38:06
  I've owned have been the most reliable cars I've ever owned, so there's that.
• 1:38:09
  There's a familiarity to it.
• 1:38:10
  Now they're not intimidating to me.
• 1:38:12
  They're familiar.
• 1:38:13
  They're known.
• 1:38:13
  I still have a thing for his C4 Grand Sport.
• 1:38:16
  Do you remember those?
• 1:38:18
  I don't know what it is, which is weird because they were
• 1:38:22
  just on the one fender, right?
• 1:38:23
  But I dig those, but proof's in the pudding and I'm just a Porsche guy.
• 1:38:27
  And I wouldn't say once you buy the Porsche, you can buy another Porsche
• 1:38:30
  because it's going to hold its value a lot better than the Corvette.
• 1:38:33
  That's a good point too.
• 1:38:34
  You drive that Porsche for five years, you do what you're supposed to do,
• 1:38:37
  maintenance wise, either A, depending on which one you bought, it could go
• 1:38:40
  up in value, it could maintain value, it could go just a little bit lower.
• 1:38:42
  But you could turn around and sell that and not have to remortgage
• 1:38:46
  whatever and whatnot to go buy the next generation Corvette because you lost,
• 1:38:49
  you know, 70 percent of the value to Corvette, the Porsche will hold it.
• 1:38:52
  So you can kind of roll the other ones too.
• 1:38:53
  So it's just good.
• 1:38:54
  William, such a good point.
• 1:38:55
  That GT four behind me is worth every cent I paid for it four years ago.
• 1:38:59
  That's a free car.
• 1:39:00
  It's a free car other than the tires, right?
• 1:39:02
  And the occasional oil change.
• 1:39:03
  It's a free car.
• 1:39:04
  So you talk about a financial decision that makes sense.
• 1:39:07
  I mean, that's part of it too.
• 1:39:08
  So all the above.
• 1:39:09
  So Mark, if you had to do it all over again, Porsche or Corvette?
• 1:39:12
  Maybe slightly surprising.
• 1:39:14
  I would stick with my answer from the previous episode.
• 1:39:16
  So I was spending a hundred grand on a car.
• 1:39:19
  And I had to choose between Porsche and Corvette.
• 1:39:21
  I'd get a C7 Z06 and turn it into a thousand horsepower monster, but that's
• 1:39:26
  because I have a GT3 that I love and, you know, I've scratched that itch.
• 1:39:31
  So if I'm buying a car, I like the idea of the real high horsepower, Texas mile
• 1:39:36
  car, just as its own 150 mile an hour roll on that's where the race starts.
• 1:39:41
  I appreciate everything you guys said.
• 1:39:43
  I mean, I think we're kind of split down the middle.
• 1:39:45
  I am personally torn 50 50.
• 1:39:47
  It's sort of like Lay's potato chips.
• 1:39:48
  You can't eat just one.
• 1:39:50
  I want to have every car.
• 1:39:51
  So I'll take a Corvette.
• 1:39:52
  I'll take a Porsche, you know, who cares?
• 1:39:54
  It's all good.
• 1:39:55
  Got four wheels and a way to steer it.
• 1:39:56
  I'm all about it.
• 1:39:57
  But more importantly, for our listeners, since we're talking about Porsche, we
• 1:40:01
  already decided on the Corvettes that we would buy with a hundred grand.
• 1:40:05
  But now specifically, you got a hundred thousand dollars to spend on a Porsche.
• 1:40:08
  I'm just going to leave it as a Porsche.
• 1:40:09
  You could focus on 911, but you got a hundred grand to spend.
• 1:40:12
  What do you buy?
• 1:40:14
  How do you invest your money?
• 1:40:15
  Do you buy a brand new 992 for a hundred thousand dollars?
• 1:40:19
  I don't think you can anymore.
• 1:40:21
  Well, let's just say, theoretically, what do you buy for a hundred grand?
• 1:40:25
  I would buy exactly what I did buy.
• 1:40:27
  Four years ago, I bought a very low spec, you know, no, that's a GT four, but a nine
• 1:40:31
  11, I guess it has to be a nine 11, right?
• 1:40:35
  Yeah.
• 1:40:35
  I would get a nine, nine 1.
• 1:40:38
  2 career T that's what I would put my a hundred thousand
• 1:40:41
  dollars in David's laughing.
• 1:40:43
  What would you buy?
• 1:40:45
  I'm laughing because that was my thought.
• 1:40:46
  I said 991T, that was the first thing that came in my mind, maybe
• 1:40:51
  to switch it up a little bit.
• 1:40:52
  If I couldn't get the T, then a GTS.
• 1:40:53
  If I could get a GTS, the T I think is great.
• 1:40:56
  It really is.
• 1:40:57
  Don, do you go 996 or do you buy a 928?
• 1:41:00
  Yeah, I know.
• 1:41:00
  You knew, you knew the two I was looking at.
• 1:41:02
  And honestly, reasonably practical.
• 1:41:04
  Look, I see the GT3, the GT4.
• 1:41:06
  I wouldn't advise anybody who's got whatever kind of money go buy one of
• 1:41:09
  those, because I am the kind of guy who wants to be able to drive it every day.
• 1:41:13
  If I want to, if I want to drive it to work, if I want to drive it all the way
• 1:41:16
  to Pennsylvania to go see friends on the East coast or back to California and
• 1:41:19
  see friends on the West coast, I want a car that's going to not eat me up.
• 1:41:22
  As I say, and Mark has kind of brought that to life.
• 1:41:25
  The older ones beat you up worse than the newer ones.
• 1:41:27
  That's still no consolation to me.
• 1:41:29
  They're still beating me up one way or the other.
• 1:41:31
  Honestly, if I had the a hundred grand, it's hard for me to walk away from 996.
• 1:41:35
  I really do like 996 and over here in the back of my mind, there's always the Cayman
• 1:41:40
  pulling at me cause I really do like the Caymans and I love the Cayman GTS.
• 1:41:44
  I just know that when it came to 9 11, even the, uh, high end and
• 1:41:48
  the Cayman whenever I'd see the GTS package, it always caught my eye.
• 1:41:51
  Yeah.
• 1:41:51
  It's hard to say between.
• 1:41:54
  All three of those cars, but I think really if push came to shove as much
• 1:41:58
  as I love 928 And I really really do I think I would probably go with a 996 c4s.
• 1:42:03
  William.
• 1:42:04
  What do you buy for 100 grand?
• 1:42:05
  928 s4 5 speed brilliant That's last change left over.
• 1:42:09
  I can go buy myself a 914.
• 1:42:11
  There you go Even a beat up 911 needs some work.
• 1:42:14
  I'm just a big fan of 928 I think that with the s4 5 speed, you know It's got
• 1:42:19
  the gremlins and everything like that.
• 1:42:20
  But I mean, I just think that's just a classic car.
• 1:42:22
  I mean, I just love that.
• 1:42:23
  All right.
• 1:42:23
  But you got it by 9 11.
• 1:42:24
  So what are you buying?
• 1:42:25
  Oh, that's right.
• 1:42:25
  I gotta buy a 9 11.
• 1:42:26
  I'd probably buy a 9 6 4 series C4 because I drive that thing in the
• 1:42:31
  winter, put some blizzacks on it, put some snow tires, come tow you
• 1:42:34
  out with my jeep when you get stuck.
• 1:42:37
  I mean, yeah, you could get the new stuff, the new stuff, spray stuff.
• 1:42:39
  I don't know.
• 1:42:39
  I just, you know, I'd get something older, go into a, an 80s SC or
• 1:42:43
  something along those lines.
• 1:42:45
  You know, you hear that ad, you know, it's always funner to drive a
• 1:42:47
  slow car fast than a fast car slow.
• 1:42:49
  Tell them about them.
• 1:42:50
  It's just got that soul and whatnot.
• 1:42:52
  There's other stuff I could drive that goes faster, but I gotta buy a 911.
• 1:42:54
  I don't have something that's gonna kind of really get you going
• 1:42:56
  a little bit and have some phones and just ring the shit out of it.
• 1:42:59
  Mark, do you buy back your 85 Carrera 2 or do you do something different?
• 1:43:03
  For 100k, I'm torn between Do I do 997 Turbo?
• 1:43:09
  You get away with both of them for 100k.
• 1:43:11
  Maybe not a 997 manual.
• 1:43:13
  I guess maybe if you hung around long enough to wait for it.
• 1:43:16
  But I think I would do previous generation Turbo 996 or 997
• 1:43:20
  depending on where the market was.
• 1:43:21
  Well guys, it probably comes as no surprise that That I would buy an e
• 1:43:25
  production or e prepared 914 race car.
• 1:43:28
  But you know, Hey, I'm the weird guy, right?
• 1:43:29
  I'm a mid engine guy.
• 1:43:31
  So I like Caymans, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:43:32
  I am a big fan of 9 11 too.
• 1:43:34
  I've grown up around these cars.
• 1:43:36
  I mean, literally in PCA since I was in diapers.
• 1:43:39
  So I am no stranger to Porsche by any stretch of the imagination, but there
• 1:43:43
  is a 9 11 out of all the ones that we talked about, it's a bit of a rare bird.
• 1:43:47
  And it's not the 911 L or the R or even the slant nose and all these ones that
• 1:43:53
  we talked about, you know, as exciting as the 930 is, there's one in particular,
• 1:43:57
  that's super special, at least to me, and maybe to a bunch of other people.
• 1:44:01
  And that, my friends, is the 1989 911 Speedster.
• 1:44:06
  This thing Is super cool.
• 1:44:09
  I've always loved these cars.
• 1:44:11
  I've only seen a handful of them in person, you know, with the chop
• 1:44:14
  windshield, the canopy over the back, it's different than the cabriolet.
• 1:44:18
  It's as wide as the turbo.
• 1:44:19
  It's a car that makes people want to come and talk to you.
• 1:44:23
  It's a story car.
• 1:44:24
  And I love story cars.
• 1:44:26
  And it's more attractive in some ways than a lot of other older 9 11s.
• 1:44:29
  And these are stupid expensive nowadays.
• 1:44:32
  So if I had a hundred grand to spend and I had to spend it on
• 1:44:34
  the 9 11, I'm buying a Speedster.
• 1:44:36
  You mean you're buying one and doing a Speedster tribute?
• 1:44:39
  Cause you're not getting a Speedster tribute.
• 1:44:40
  Yeah, that's right.
• 1:44:41
  That's what I was going to say.
• 1:44:42
  Yeah, I'd buy one too.
• 1:44:45
  Well, there you go.
• 1:44:46
  That's what I would have.
• 1:44:47
  They are so good though.
• 1:44:48
  They are so good.
• 1:44:49
  If you're looking to add a classic Porsche or Corvette to your collection, reach
• 1:44:53
  out to William at exoticcarmarketplace.
• 1:44:56
  com.
• 1:44:56
  Once you hear about cool adventures with Porsches, then check out
• 1:44:59
  Roadshow Podcast with Brian.
• 1:45:01
  If you want to learn how to drive a 911 really fast in the virtual world, then
• 1:45:05
  be sure to chat with David at MIE Racing.
• 1:45:08
  And you're guaranteed to catch me on another upcoming episode of BreakFix.
• 1:45:11
  So stay tuned for that and don't forget what should be in your garage.
• 1:45:15
  A Porsche!
• 1:45:16
  So be sure to keep an eye out for cool Porsche collections with Don
• 1:45:20
  over at Garage Style Magazine.
• 1:45:22
  Thanks again to our panel for another great What Should I Buy?
• 1:45:25
  episode.
• 1:45:25
  Like always, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show.
• 1:45:28
  And I don't know that we ever come to a consensus, but that's kind of the point
• 1:45:32
  of what should I buy is we're not really supposed to agree on what we would buy.
• 1:45:36
  We're supposed to give people food for thought.
• 1:45:38
  So this was new.
• 1:45:39
  This was different for us to do a two parter Porsche versus Corvette.
• 1:45:42
  I had a lot of fun.
• 1:45:43
  I thought it was informational.
• 1:45:44
  And I hope that our audience got a lot out of this too.
• 1:45:47
  And if you have further questions about Porsche or Corvette, hit us
• 1:45:50
  up on our discord, reach out to us on our Facebook group, email us.
• 1:45:54
  We'd have a lot of.
• 1:45:54
  We've got experts in our wings that can get more deep into the
• 1:45:57
  details if you're looking to buy one of these particular cars.
• 1:46:00
  So thanks again guys for coming and we hope to see you in another.
• 1:46:02
  What should I buy?
• 1:46:03
  Awesome.
• 1:46:04
  Thank you.
• 1:46:04
  What a pleasure.
• 1:46:05
  Thanks for having us.
• 1:46:22
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• 1:46:26
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• 1:46:28
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• 1:46:31
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