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HEIRESS-TURNED-EPSTEIN-PIMP GHISLAINE MAXWELL EYES PARDON · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, Jeffrey Epstein pimp Ghislaine Maxwell's jail scandal. This is
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: 25 mystery men facing charges. Why aren't they in jail?
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: And tonight, a secret thumb drive contains what information? Is
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: it information powerful enough to equal a get out of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: jail free card for Epstein pimp Ghislaine Maxwell? Ant and
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I joining us, a special guest, an Epstein victim speaks out.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. Jelaine Maxwell
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: gives a statement to the feds. It's nothing but a
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: pack of lies.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Liars tend to spin long yarns and create unimportant details
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: in order to make the lie more believable.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So she starts off by saying there is no client list.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: What client list?
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: What?
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: Ms.
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: Maxwell, did you at any time play any role in
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: Jeffrey Epstein's activities involving the recruitment process? grooming, or trafficking
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: of young women or girls.
• 1:19
  Speaker 6: I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Ms.
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  Speaker 5: Maxwell, have you ever coerced, directed, or otherwise instructed any
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: young woman or girl to provide sexual favors to Mr.
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: Epstein or any other individual?
• 1:35
  Speaker 6: I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
• 1:41
  Speaker 7: Ms.
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: Maxwell, Can you please provide us with all the names
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: of other additional co-conspirators to the crimes perpetuated by you
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: and Jeffrey Epstein?
• 1:51
  Speaker 6: I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Shrouded in the Fifth Amendment, will Ghislaine Maxwell finally cough
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: up the names of 25 or more mystery men that
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: could face charges? Again, joining us, an all-star panel, including
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: an Epstein survivor who is speaking out tonight. But first,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: to Sydney Sumner, joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter. And
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: she is joining us outside the federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas. Sydney,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: explain to me the jailhouse scandal.
• 2:30
  Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, almost a year ago, Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred
• 2:35
  Speaker 8: from a low-security prison in Tallahassee To the prison camp directly.
• 2:40
  Speaker 9: Behind me in Bryan, Texas.
• 2:42
  Speaker 8: This is a low security prison camp, minimum security prison camp,
• 2:47
  Speaker 8: where Ghislaine has bottled water, an unlimited supply of toilet paper.
• 2:52
  Speaker 8: There's access to programs like a puppy training program. There's
• 2:58
  Speaker 8: other inmates who are allowed to learn vocations such as
• 3:01
  Speaker 8: nursing and leave the property on a regular basis. And
• 3:05
  Speaker 8: we're hearing things like she's getting extremely preferential treatment, walking
• 3:09
  Speaker 8: down the entire prison anytime she has visitors.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I understand she's wearing cashmere. Whistleblower accounts emerge alleging she's
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: getting preferential treatment, isolation from roommates, cell privacy modifications, special
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: visit hours. extra supplies. Now, the Bureau of Prisons is
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: not even bothering to deny it. They're claiming she gets
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: all of these special perks for safety measures. What did
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: you say about toilet paper? Not that that's my big
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: concern tonight, but what did you say?
• 3:45
  Speaker 8: Well, Maxwell is apparently afforded an unlimited supply of toilet paper,
• 3:49
  Speaker 8: while other inmates, when they run out, they run out
• 3:52
  Speaker 8: for the month and they're using paper towels.
• 3:54
  Speaker 9: And the most disturbing part about this, Nancy, is that.
• 3:57
  Speaker 8: Maxwell does not qualify to be in this prison camp.
• 4:02
  Speaker 8: To qualify to be transferred here, you typically have to
• 4:05
  Speaker 8: have less than 10 years left on your sentence. Maxwell
• 4:08
  Speaker 8: has 16, and she has violent criminal history.
• 4:13
  Speaker 9: She has been convicted of sex trafficking.
• 4:16
  Speaker 8: This is usually reserved for white-collar crime, no violence involved.
• 4:21
  Speaker 9: So, two.
• 4:23
  Speaker 8: Big things that should prevent Maxwell from being in this
• 4:26
  Speaker 8: prison were completely overlooked. So it's unclear who exactly made
• 4:31
  Speaker 8: the call to move her to this prison, but it
• 4:34
  Speaker 8: definitely came from very high up.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me the two reasons she should not be
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: there again, Sid.
• 4:42
  Speaker 8: Maxwell has 16 years left of that 20-year sentence. This
• 4:46
  Speaker 8: is typically reserved for inmates with less than 10 years
• 4:50
  Speaker 8: left to serve.
• 4:51
  Speaker 9: And she is convicted of sex trafficking.
• 4:53
  Speaker 8: That is a violent offense that precludes an inmate from
• 4:59
  Speaker 8: being housed in a minimum security facility like this.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Sydney Sumner is joining us tonight from the Bryan Federal
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Prison Camp. Sydney, what more can you tell me about
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the prison camp behind you?
• 5:14
  Speaker 8: Well, we know that there's only one guard overnight there.
• 5:18
  Speaker 8: Inmates are allowed to leave the property for work to
• 5:21
  Speaker 8: learn vocations. There's yoga classes. Service dogs are trained here.
• 5:28
  Speaker 8: Inmates could literally walk out the front gate if they
• 5:31
  Speaker 8: chose to.
• 5:32
  Speaker 9: Would that be a good decision?
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: No.
• 5:34
  Speaker 9: But that's the level of security we're seeing here.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Joining us tonight is a special guest. It's Haley Robson,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: an Epstein survivor. She is part of an organization called
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the Survivors, Inc., supporting sex assault and trafficking survivors. Haley,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious what your reaction is to Ghislaine Maxwell's,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: and there's more to it, her prison scandal over, let
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: me just say, against all existing rules. She is a
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: sex trafficker convicted. That's a violent crime. You, of all people,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: can speak to that violence. Why is she at Bryan?
• 6:19
  Speaker 11: I have said this since the very beginning.
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: And when I was at the Capitol Hill, I brought
• 6:23
  Speaker 7: it to not only the Democratic Party, but I've said
• 6:28
  Speaker 7: this in front of several individuals in Congress on both
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: sides of the spectrum. And I've said, why are we
• 6:34
  Speaker 7: not putting Ghislaine Maxwell back in prison? Todd Blanche keeps
• 6:38
  Speaker 7: denying that he went down there and made a deal
• 6:40
  Speaker 7: with her, which doesn't make sense to me considering this,
• 6:43
  Speaker 7: she should automatically be precluded from this type of environment
• 6:49
  Speaker 7: when she has created a, or committed a extremely violent
• 6:53
  Speaker 7: act and not just an extremely violent act and act
• 6:56
  Speaker 7: against children and young women.
• 6:57
  Speaker 11: It's absurd. I'm not buying it.
• 6:59
  Speaker 7: Todd Blanche can go choke on a cactus with this
• 7:02
  Speaker 7: whole entire administration and The jig is up.
• 7:05
  Speaker 11: We know there was a deal to be made.
• 7:07
  Speaker 7: And if I am absolutely wrong, then put her back
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: in prison. Why has that not been done yet? How
• 7:14
  Speaker 7: come we don't know who made that deal? Who made
• 7:17
  Speaker 7: that phone call? And on top of that, this happened
• 7:20
  Speaker 7: in Florida. So furthermore, I want to know on a
• 7:24
  Speaker 7: state level who was involved in making that deal or
• 7:27
  Speaker 7: who at least knew about it.
• 7:28
  Speaker 11: Who knew she was being moved? This is absolutely absurd.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I'm also curious about that secret thumb drive to Nima
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Rahmani joining us, former federal prosecutor turned trial lawyer, president,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: West Coast trial lawyers, author of Harvard to Hashtag. Nima,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us tonight. This whole thing stinks.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I've got so much to cover. I hate to belabor
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: this point, but. Why is Ghislaine Maxwell, who is a
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: convicted sex trafficker, and you heard her, I played at
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the very beginning, taking the Fifth Amendment when she's asked
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to name other names of those powerful men that were
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: part of Epstein's sex trafficking ring. She wouldn't name them.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: She's protecting them. Yet she's getting a cushy environment with
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: cashmere outfits, walking around under an umbrella so she doesn't
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: get a tan, getting to train puppies. I mean, isolated,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: her own private room, and it goes on and on,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: even her own private supply of toilet paper. I know
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that's a small thing to you, but the fact that
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: she is getting preferential treatment and refusing to name these
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: 25 or more guys, we've been told they've already gotten deals.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: What deal? And then you've got people like Haley Robson,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: who was a sex trafficking victim of Epstein's, and this
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: pimp who's there in a cushy jail going, why?
• 8:55
  Speaker 11: Nobody's telling me anything. It's wrong, Nima.
• 9:00
  Speaker 12: I agree with you, Nancy. Thanks for having me, Haley.
• 9:02
  Speaker 12: My heart goes out to you and the other victims. Look,
• 9:05
  Speaker 12: what's happening to Ghislaine Maxwell and her placement by the BOP,
• 9:09
  Speaker 12: Bureau of Prisons, is shameful. And it happened shortly after
• 9:13
  Speaker 12: now Attorney General Todd Blanche met with her and interviewed her.
• 9:16
  Speaker 12: And criminals have lied, but no one has lied like
• 9:19
  Speaker 12: Ghislaine Maxwell. Now, if you're trying to unpack her habeas petition,
• 9:24
  Speaker 12: it's patently frivolous. The only way that she's going to
• 9:27
  Speaker 12: ever get out of prison before her 20 years are
• 9:29
  Speaker 12: up is she gets a presidential pardon. So she's using
• 9:32
  Speaker 12: these 25 men as a basis to say that she
• 9:37
  Speaker 12: was selectively prosecuted and these other men were not. And
• 9:40
  Speaker 12: maybe those other men should be prosecuted. But we know
• 9:42
  Speaker 12: that's not a legal defense. She was an active participant
• 9:46
  Speaker 12: in sex trafficking, recruited these young girls for Jeffrey Epstein.
• 9:50
  Speaker 12: She's lucky she's only doing 20 years. She should be
• 9:52
  Speaker 12: spending the rest of her life in federal prison, Nancy,
• 9:55
  Speaker 12: and not in her current placement.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Back to you, Sydney. us outside Bryan Federal Prison Camp.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Even few of the locals know about the camp's newest resident,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: sex trafficker, pimp, Ghislaine Maxwell. Is it true, Sidney, that
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the grounds are dotted with live oak trees? Some of
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: the facilities left over from The property's history is a
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: hunting lodge. School buses go by the camp. Roosters crow
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: a couple of blocks away. It sounds like a bucolic,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: idyllic setting. For a sex trafficker? Are you kidding me?
• 10:35
  Speaker 9: I'm standing in front of a home, Nancy. This is
• 10:37
  Speaker 9: a neighborhood.
• 10:38
  Speaker 8: There are homes all the way across on every side
• 10:42
  Speaker 8: of the prison. And yes, of course, school buses come
• 10:45
  Speaker 8: through here regularly. People bring mail, dropping off packages. This
• 10:51
  Speaker 8: is a neighborhood. It's very residential. So it's outrageous that
• 10:56
  Speaker 8: a convicted sex offender, a violent offender, is being housed here.
• 11:00
  Speaker 8: And on top of all of the other preferential treatment
• 11:02
  Speaker 8: we've already discussed, the warden apparently hand delivers Maxwell's mail
• 11:07
  Speaker 8: back and forth all of the time. And we've seen
• 11:10
  Speaker 8: emails published, Maxwell describing how much happier she is here,
• 11:15
  Speaker 8: how the staff are so accommodating and polite to her.
• 11:18
  Speaker 8: Those emails indicated that she has regular contact with the warden,
• 11:22
  Speaker 8: which is extremely unusual for inmates in federal prison. And again,
• 11:28
  Speaker 8: that visit where she had someone come in, the entire
• 11:31
  Speaker 8: prison was shut down. Visiting was canceled for all other inmates.
• 11:35
  Speaker 8: There was a specific section for this visitor to join her.
• 11:38
  Speaker 8: And they were provided with water, coffee, and snacks. That's
• 11:43
  Speaker 8: a lot better than the vending machine that all of
• 11:45
  Speaker 8: these other families get.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: You know, Sydney, it's amazing. And I don't believe minimum
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: is right or appropriate or fair for Ghislaine Maxwell because
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: of how much harm she did to other people. Young girls,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: look at her taking the Fifth Amendment right there. She's
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a Brit. But she's enjoying our constitutional protections, and she's
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: dodging naming 25 mystery men connected to this case hiding
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: behind the Fifth Amendment. And this prison camp is home
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: to other celebs, Elizabeth Holmes, founder of Theranos, Jen Shah,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Real Housewives, and more. It's cushy. It's not fair. And
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: we've been told that the warden is basically Ghislaine Maxwell's
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: private secretary. To Dani Pinter joining us. You know her well.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Dani is the chief legal officer for the National Center
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: on Sex Exploitation. Dani, jump in.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think this is just appalling, unjust.
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: And what's so shocking about Maxwell's petition is her just narcissistic, arrogance, right?
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: She still thinks she's a victim of the system. She
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: shows utter disdain for the victims. And she believed that
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: if she points the fingers at these 25 other men,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: that somehow vindicates her. But thankfully, Judge Engelmeyer did not agree.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And Nima Rahmani, following up with what Danny Pinter just said,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: she is still, Ghislaine Maxwell is still holding the 25,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and I believe four others, I think there's 29, The
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: 25 to 25 names of other men involved in Epstein
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking, she's holding them close to the vest. She
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: has not revealed them.
• 13:40
  Speaker 8: Why?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Think, think, think, thinky, Romani. She's got a reason for
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: not spitting those names out yet.
• 13:48
  Speaker 12: Well, she should cooperate because that's really the only way
• 13:51
  Speaker 12: that she's going to get that sentence down under 5K
• 13:53
  Speaker 12: of the guidelines, unless she really thinks that she's going
• 13:56
  Speaker 12: to get some sort of presidential pardon. I know she's
• 13:58
  Speaker 12: angling for it. There's no way that this habeas petition
• 14:02
  Speaker 12: has any chance of success. She's already exhausted her direct appeals.
• 14:06
  Speaker 12: So she thinks that this is somehow leverage that can
• 14:08
  Speaker 12: be used politically. I would be shocked if President Trump
• 14:13
  Speaker 12: pardons her. He's been very liberal on his pardons, but
• 14:16
  Speaker 12: this would be probably one of the worst pardons in
• 14:20
  Speaker 12: presidential history. So there must be some reason she's keeping
• 14:23
  Speaker 12: this information, because if she were to provide it, obviously
• 14:26
  Speaker 12: that would help. bring other perpetrators to justice, and potentially
• 14:30
  Speaker 12: reduce her sentence. She is the answer, the person that
• 14:34
  Speaker 12: connects those other men to Jeffrey Epstein. I don't believe
• 14:37
  Speaker 12: for a second that there aren't other people that should
• 14:40
  Speaker 12: be prosecuted for this sex trafficking, even though the DOJ
• 14:43
  Speaker 12: last year issued a memo saying there's no legal basis
• 14:46
  Speaker 12: to do.
• 14:46
  Speaker 9: So, Nancy.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Haley Robson is joining us. She's an Epstein survivor. How
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: does it strike you that Ghislaine Maxwell is reportedly holding
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: on the names of 25 to 29, at least, men
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that were involved in Epstein's sex trafficking scheme. Holding back for,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you, some sort of personal gain to get
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: a better place to stay. Now, I think it's bigger
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: than that. I think it's about a pardon or more,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: even a reversal.
• 15:17
  Speaker 7: I've said this since the very beginning when Trump and
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: his entire administration backed down and did a bait and
• 15:24
  Speaker 7: switch and decided not to pursue releasing the files. I
• 15:28
  Speaker 7: definitely think that there's already a pardon being worked in.
• 15:31
  Speaker 7: That was part of the deal, in my opinion. And
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: in my conclusion, when Todd Blanche went and spoke to her,
• 15:36
  Speaker 7: I definitely think that was something that was discussed.
• 15:38
  Speaker 11: I think there was a deal to be made.
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: I 100% agree that this would be the worst pardon
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: a president in the history of the United States of
• 15:45
  Speaker 7: America could ever give someone. However, given the degree of
• 15:51
  Speaker 7: what's been going on and all the favoritism and support
• 15:55
  Speaker 7: and just everything that Ghislaine's been given, mercy, grace. I mean,
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: it's insanity to me. So I do think he's going
• 16:03
  Speaker 7: to pardon her. I think she's a disgusting human being.
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: I think she's worse than Jeffrey. And what really aggravates
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: me above everything else is when this alleged move happened
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: and she was transferred out to this prison camp in Texas,
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: I heard that she got her child sex registry dropped.
• 16:24
  Speaker 11: And I don't know if that was true or accurate information,
• 16:27
  Speaker 11: but I will say.
• 16:28
  Speaker 7: The fact that she's able to be in a facility
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: where there's a neighborhood, kids, schools, it is insult to injury, please.
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: It is disgusting what they are giving her. And she
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: deserves nothing of it. And the fact that she's sitting
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: on 24... or 25 names goes to prove that this
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: woman is not remorseful.
• 16:48
  Speaker 11: She does not care.
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: She definitely has cards in her hand that she's willing
• 16:53
  Speaker 7: to play to get that pardon or to get out early.
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: And I think it's a disgrace that anybody would even
• 17:00
  Speaker 7: entertain anything this woman has to say after she's perjured
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: herself so many times.
• 17:05
  Speaker 11: Shame on her. She is disgusting beyond.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Haley, I've got a question. And I almost hate to
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: bring it up, but I have to. Because her in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: this cushy jail and getting all of this preferential treatment,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: after what Epstein, and she was part of that, did
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to you, what happened to you, Haley?
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: My story is very complex and I was recruited into
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: this by another classmate and an adult male who was
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: 20 at the time. And I was sexually abused on occasion.
• 17:54
  Speaker 7: And I was then forced to come into this organization,
• 17:58
  Speaker 7: this crime, and didn't knowing or understand what was really
• 18:03
  Speaker 7: truly happening and ended up getting sucked into a trafficking
• 18:07
  Speaker 7: ring where I was being abused. and then committing self-harm
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: by bringing other people into the system, which 90% of
• 18:14
  Speaker 7: Jeffrey Epstein victims brought in other girls. That was part
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: of the abuse. And for him to then have him
• 18:23
  Speaker 7: and Ghislaine just not be able to come forward and
• 18:27
  Speaker 7: just plead the fifth, it's disgusting. And they know what
• 18:30
  Speaker 7: they've done, not to just me. It wasn't just the
• 18:34
  Speaker 7: abuse either, Nancy. You're talking about years of smear campaigns.
• 18:38
  Speaker 7: You're talking about years of attacking Virginia Giuffre, years of
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: attacking myself, years of coming after any victim or any
• 18:47
  Speaker 7: girl that spoke out against their crimes.
• 18:50
  Speaker 11: And they are both evil human beings.
• 18:54
  Speaker 7: And to see the government to not fully understand the impact,
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: and if they did fully understand the impact, she wouldn't.
• 19:02
  Speaker 11: Be in a summer camp. She would be back in
• 19:04
  Speaker 11: prison with no security.
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: And This has been an issue for, oh God, five administrations.
• 19:12
  Speaker 7: And we finally got to this point. And I feel
• 19:18
  Speaker 7: like we're just stuck. And I see this every day
• 19:21
  Speaker 7: in the media when I see survivor sisters out there speaking.
• 19:24
  Speaker 7: It's like we're stuck in the trauma because our government
• 19:26
  Speaker 7: is holding us hostage. They are furthering what Jeffrey and
• 19:29
  Speaker 7: Ghislaine did to us.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Ellie, how old were you when you were targeted by Epstein?
• 19:38
  Speaker 11: I was a 16-year-old high school student. I was a
• 19:41
  Speaker 11: junior in high school. I was 16. I was a teenager.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Dr. Chloe Carmichael joining us, clinical psychologist, author of Nervous Energy. Dr. Chloe,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Weigh in.
• 19:59
  Speaker 13: Well, thanks, Nancy. Yeah, I mean, it really does make
• 20:02
  Speaker 13: my blood boil to see her in this fancy, you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 13: so-called prison. Because part of what she and Jeffrey Epstein
• 20:10
  Speaker 13: even seem to trade on in the first place is
• 20:13
  Speaker 13: the idea that they're special, that they're different, that they're
• 20:16
  Speaker 13: above other people, and that they have this bubble of
• 20:19
  Speaker 13: luxury and untouchability that surrounds them wherever they go. And
• 20:23
  Speaker 13: to see that continue, even in this incarceration, is I'm
• 20:28
  Speaker 13: sure very harmful, as Haley said, infuriating and insulting to
• 20:32
  Speaker 13: the injury to the victims. But it's also, I think,
• 20:35
  Speaker 13: really bad for society to see that this treatment and
• 20:40
  Speaker 13: this grandiosity is even continuing here. And as for her
• 20:46
  Speaker 13: keeping this information, it doesn't surprise me at all. Frankly,
• 20:50
  Speaker 13: if I can say, it almost reminds me of like
• 20:53
  Speaker 13: a reptile brain where they just have these instincts about
• 20:57
  Speaker 13: survival trading on information. of powerful men and keeping secrets
• 21:03
  Speaker 13: and using them as leverage is in her blood. It
• 21:08
  Speaker 13: is in her DNA. So the idea that even now
• 21:12
  Speaker 13: she's trading and leveraging on that information is very sick,
• 21:16
  Speaker 13: but not at all surprising.
• 21:19
  Speaker 14: Can you commit that the Justice Department, you, the acting
• 21:23
  Speaker 14: Attorney General, will not recommend a pardon?
• 21:26
  Speaker 9: For people named in the Epstein files? When you say.
• 21:29
  Speaker 10: People named, I have no, there's tens of thousands, hundreds
• 21:32
  Speaker 10: of thousands of, quote, people named.
• 21:34
  Speaker 9: How about Jelaine Maxwell? Can you commit that you will?
• 21:37
  Speaker 10: Yes, I can commit to that, of course. What this
• 21:40
  Speaker 10: act did is it required us to review over six
• 21:44
  Speaker 10: million pieces of paper in a very short period of time.
• 21:46
  Speaker 10: And so 0.001%, we made mistakes and we owned up
• 21:51
  Speaker 10: to them. And the second that a victim or their
• 21:53
  Speaker 10: lawyer told us that we made a mistake, We pulled
• 21:56
  Speaker 10: that document down and we put lawyers 24-7 in being
• 21:59
  Speaker 10: responsive to victims and their lawyers to make sure that
• 22:02
  Speaker 10: we fixed every single problem.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: It's frankly horrifying that Trump would entertain the idea of
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: clemency for even a second. Even a second for a
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: convicted sex trafficker. That alone should be enough for the
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Senate to speak up with one voice and affirm that
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: there should be absolutely no pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell, not now,
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: not ever.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox, straight back out to Sydney Sumner,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: standing by there at the Bryan Federal Prison Camp in Texas.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: It looks like a residential, actually a Tony residential area.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Many people believe that Todd Blanche personally oversaw Ghislaine Maxwell's
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: transfer to a more lenient, cushy facility because... After she's
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: found guilty, she got 20 years behind bars. Then Blanche,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: highly unusual, personally interviewed her. Remember when the whole jail
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: was shut down? And just days later, she's transferred to Bryan.
• 23:08
  Speaker 9: That's absolutely correct.
• 23:10
  Speaker 8: People completely believe that Blanche is behind this. This transfer
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: violates several policies laid out by the BOP. So it's
• 23:21
  Speaker 8: ridiculous that this happened in the first place. But yes,
• 23:25
  Speaker 8: many people believe Blanche is behind this and he denies it.
• 23:29
  Speaker 8: They say that this was for safety measures only. Because
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: she cooperated, because she met with him, she would have
• 23:35
  Speaker 8: faced violence had she stayed in that low security prison.
• 23:39
  Speaker 8: versus being moved to this minimum security prison where there
• 23:42
  Speaker 8: are no other violent offenders. So that is the official
• 23:46
  Speaker 8: statement on why she was moved here. But it definitely
• 23:49
  Speaker 8: feels like she got a little pat on the back
• 23:51
  Speaker 8: for her statements in that interview that claimed Trump is
• 23:54
  Speaker 8: completely innocent of any kind of allegations regarding connections to
• 23:59
  Speaker 8: Epstein's sex trafficking ring.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Does it all boil down to what is on that
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: thumb drive that she handed over to the feds? Is
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: she keeping the names of 25 to 29 other individuals
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: a secret? Are they some sort of bargaining chip? Straight
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: back out to Epstein victim Haley Robson. Haley, I understand
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: that Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell victims have gotten together and
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: created their own witness list. And that list has got
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to contain names of other men that attacked them. that
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: took advantage of Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein's sex trafficking ring.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: You have to be able to identify some of these guys.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Why are they walking free, Haley?
• 24:52
  Speaker 11: Well, I will say this.
• 24:54
  Speaker 7: Thomas Massey, I saw, went to the House floor and
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: started reading some names, which ironically, a lot of those
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: names were already public. There was one name that was
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: allegedly involved and his name was not on the list.
• 25:05
  Speaker 7: And I'm going to say that name until I'm blue
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: in the face.
• 25:08
  Speaker 11: Because of what he did to.
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: Virginia Dufresne, Ehud Barak, which I find to be extremely ironic,
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: because at one point, I believe that he and Jeffrey
• 25:16
  Speaker 7: lived together. But beyond that point, this is what they
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: have been fearing. And, you know, the reckoning is here.
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: Everybody in America is standing up, asking for these files
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: and wanting to expose these names. And if my survivor sisters,
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: they already know, if you want to go public and
• 25:37
  Speaker 7: start naming names, Um, I will stand in solidarity with you.
• 25:41
  Speaker 11: I will stand in solidarity with anybody who wants to
• 25:43
  Speaker 11: name names. I'm not scared.
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: I'm not going to, you know, be silenced or live
• 25:47
  Speaker 7: in fear anymore. I am so sick and tired of
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: the hypocrisy in this country. I am so sick and
• 25:53
  Speaker 7: tired of the lack of justice. And I'm tired of
• 25:55
  Speaker 7: feeling like I have to fight for my life in
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: a situation that should be a no brainer for anybody
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: over the age of like, I don't know, 26.
• 26:02
  Speaker 11: And it just, it's insane to me that.
• 26:07
  Speaker 7: Todd Blanche could even have the audacity to continue his lies.
• 26:11
  Speaker 11: I mean, the survivors are not believing him. We don't
• 26:13
  Speaker 11: believe him. We don't trust him.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: How many people are implicated? How powerful or wealthy are they?
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Is that why their names have not been publicized? Why
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: they are not being prosecuted?
• 26:28
  Speaker 15: Do you know whether, for example, President Clinton ever received
• 26:30
  Speaker 15: a massage?
• 26:31
  Speaker 16: I don't believe he did.
• 26:32
  Speaker 15: And what makes you say you don't believe he did?
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: Well, because I don't know.
• 26:37
  Speaker 11: That's a good question.
• 26:41
  Speaker 16: The time that Epstein and President Clinton spent together, the
• 26:45
  Speaker 16: only time, I believe, well, obviously they traveled. They went
• 26:50
  Speaker 16: on the plane 26 times or whatever. That would be
• 26:52
  Speaker 16: one journey. So they spent time on the plane together,
• 26:55
  Speaker 16: and I don't believe there was ever a massage on
• 26:57
  Speaker 16: the plane. So that would have been the only time
• 27:00
  Speaker 16: that I think that President Clinton could have even received
• 27:03
  Speaker 16: a massage, and he didn't, because I was there.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that's correct. That was not the only
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: time that President Clinton rode on Epstein's private plane. Why
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: am I even putting U.S. President in the same sentence
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: with Epstein's plane and massage? I mean, you know, there's more. Listen.
• 27:27
  Speaker 15: And did you ever hear Mr. Epstein or anybody say
• 27:30
  Speaker 15: that President Trump had done anything inappropriate with masseuses or
• 27:37
  Speaker 15: with anybody in your world?
• 27:39
  Speaker 16: Absolutely never.
• 27:41
  Speaker 12: In any context.
• 27:45
  Speaker 15: Do you know whether masseuses from Mar-a-Lago Spa ended up
• 27:51
  Speaker 15: giving massages to private massages to Mr.
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: Epstein?
• 27:56
  Speaker 15: I'm not asking what you may have read but at
• 27:59
  Speaker 15: the time from your personal knowledge do you know whether
• 28:01
  Speaker 15: that's true?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: I don't recall.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Is it possible? Yes.
• 28:07
  Speaker 16: But I don't remember. I don't remember that. So I
• 28:10
  Speaker 16: don't want to, I don't recall that, but it's possible.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, my stars. She doesn't remember organizing massages.
• 28:22
  Speaker 11: Okay.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: According to every single victim, Nima Romani, she did. They're
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: all lying and she's telling the truth. And I am
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: not naming any of these powerful people as co-defendants. I'm
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: saying that, I am saying that Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: moved in very rarefied circles, Nima. Very rarefied, wealthy, powerful
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: people that I believe Ghislaine Maxwell is covering for. Why?
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Not because she cares about them, because there's something in
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: it for her.
• 29:00
  Speaker 8: Well, clearly.
• 29:01
  Speaker 12: And look, let's go back to the original sweetheart deal
• 29:04
  Speaker 12: that Epstein got when Alex Acosta was U.S.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Attorney.
• 29:07
  Speaker 12: My former Harvard Law professor, Alan Dershowitz, came down and
• 29:10
  Speaker 12: got him a state disposition. I can tell you, Nancy,
• 29:12
  Speaker 12: when I was a Fed, I put a thousand people
• 29:14
  Speaker 12: in prison and I never once gave a state disposition
• 29:17
  Speaker 12: in any case. So from the beginning, he's gotten special treatment. Obviously,
• 29:22
  Speaker 12: he's dead. She's still getting special treatment right now. That's
• 29:24
  Speaker 12: just the reality in this country. It's not right. It's
• 29:27
  Speaker 12: not the law. But when you are rich, when you
• 29:31
  Speaker 12: are politically well-connected, the legal system is going to treat
• 29:34
  Speaker 12: you differently. And that's exactly what we're seeing in the
• 29:37
  Speaker 12: Epstein abuse case.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Danny Pinter joining us. Danny, there is no way that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: there are not other people involved. I mean, it's sex trafficking.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: The victim is sent from one man to the next,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to the next, to the next. That's what trafficking is.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I have investigated and prosecuted sex trafficking. child sex trafficking
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: as this is. Did you hear Haley State? She was
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: 16 when she was recruited into this. She was assaulted.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: She was sex assaulted and forced to recruit other young girls. Yet,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: what about all those guys? These victims can identify them.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Why aren't they being prosecuted? And there she is in
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: that cushy jail in the middle of a residential neighborhood.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: It's absolutely shocking that I mean, what makes sex trafficking
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: sex trafficking is procuring people for commercial sex. So it's
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: already been proven that Maxwell was involved in procuring these
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: victims for other people. When we hear that there's 25
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: other men that were able to cut a deal, that
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: the DOJ proactively immunized at least four unindicted victims. potential
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: criminals involved in this means we know that there are
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: other co-conspirators. We know that there's other individuals involved and
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: they should be prosecuted. It all begs the question as
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: to why the rich and powerful, why this celebrity predator
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: is being treated specially when it was the power and
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: celebrity that allowed her and Epstein and others to predate
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: on these victims and to get protection at the highest
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: levels in the first place.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Well, one reason that many are remaining silent is because
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: people connected to Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell drop like flies,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: 22 or more at the last count, dead under suspicious circumstances.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: The last one, Virginia Giuffre, dead. I mean, it, I'm
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: confused about that because Healy joining us and Epstein's survivor,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Virginia Jeffrey had just won a multimillion dollar case, right?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Because of suffering at the hands of Epstein, at the
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: hands of Ghislaine Maxwell, millions of dollars. She had a
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: beautiful home. It was all coming together, not all falling apart.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: And then she turns up dead from suicide. She's one
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: of at least 22 victims. No wonder people are clamming up.
• 32:21
  Speaker 11: You make some valid points.
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: It was really hard coming out as a survivor when
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: I started to learn about how many of the girls
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: were committing suicide or had lost their life. I don't
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: know about any of the other cases. I can only
• 32:34
  Speaker 7: speak on Virginia. I did speak at her memorial. I
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: think one of the important factors that I just, I
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: want to relay this message to the world is is
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: what you see us in public is not the same
• 32:47
  Speaker 7: as how you see us behind closed doors. We all
• 32:50
  Speaker 7: have lives that we have to live aside from Jeffrey.
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: And when you're dealing with such severe sexual trauma, it
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: is very hard to recover from it. And sometimes when
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: you're not in the healing process, you stop growing. And
• 33:06
  Speaker 7: what makes my heart hurt the most out of all
• 33:09
  Speaker 7: of this is these 25 other men who abused, raped,
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: and tortured the victims of Jeffrey Epstein get to walk
• 33:19
  Speaker 7: free knowing they get to continue their daily life, their
• 33:22
  Speaker 7: daily exercises, their daily work meetings. And yet we have
• 33:26
  Speaker 7: survivors of mass trafficking dying every few months because they
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: can't stand up for themselves because they are hurting internally
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: and they have nowhere to go to because our government
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: is watching us drown. They are sitting back and watching
• 33:43
  Speaker 7: us drown and the adults have yet to show up
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: for us. And we are still here. We are still
• 33:48
  Speaker 7: waiting for those adults.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: What about it, Dr. Chloe Carmichael?
• 33:53
  Speaker 13: It's important to remember that there's three purposes for the
• 33:57
  Speaker 13: justice system. When we put someone in jail, there's three purposes.
• 34:01
  Speaker 13: One is retribution. One is prevention. And the other is rehabilitation.
• 34:08
  Speaker 13: It's failing on all three fronts here. because obviously this
• 34:12
  Speaker 13: is not helping Ghislaine to get over her grandiosity. And
• 34:18
  Speaker 13: as far as prevention, I think there are some serious
• 34:21
  Speaker 13: questions about whether they are being prevented from continuing to
• 34:28
  Speaker 13: influence people or continue to wield power in ways that
• 34:34
  Speaker 13: they should not. And being put in such a cushy
• 34:37
  Speaker 13: prison in the first place, I hardly think is the
• 34:40
  Speaker 13: comeuppance and retribution that would be appropriate in a situation
• 34:44
  Speaker 13: like this.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Nima Romani, is there any legal way to get those
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: names of other individuals we know of 25 to 29?
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: But you know, there are hundreds and hundreds more.
• 34:57
  Speaker 12: So when you're talking about these individuals that are named,
• 35:03
  Speaker 12: they've been named in civil lawsuits. Obviously no one's been prosecuted.
• 35:06
  Speaker 12: I don't know what I don't know, but the Epstein
• 35:07
  Speaker 12: Files Transparency Act calls for the DOJ to release everything
• 35:11
  Speaker 12: unless it's information that identifies victims of sex abuse like Haley.
• 35:15
  Speaker 12: But there's no other legal basis to withhold documents. They've
• 35:19
  Speaker 12: asserted different types of privileges like the executive privilege, deliberative
• 35:23
  Speaker 12: process privilege. I mean, there's no reason for the DOJ
• 35:26
  Speaker 12: to hold back millions and millions of pages. Congress passed
• 35:31
  Speaker 12: this law demanding action, and I'm not sure the DOJ
• 35:35
  Speaker 12: has complied fully with the law. And it's a huge
• 35:38
  Speaker 12: public trust issue, Nancy. This is something that Pam Bondi
• 35:41
  Speaker 12: said before she was appointed attorney general. Todd Blanch said
• 35:45
  Speaker 12: both before Congress and publicly, and even the president has said.
• 35:49
  Speaker 12: And there are millions of pages that have been held back,
• 35:52
  Speaker 12: that have been redacted. And I think there's a reason.
• 35:54
  Speaker 12: that people don't trust our Department of Justice, and it's
• 35:57
  Speaker 12: in large part because of how they've mishandled, really botched
• 36:01
  Speaker 12: the Epstein files.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: To Dave Mack, joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter, there are,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: by my last count, 22 unusual suicides and or deaths
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: connected to the Epstein case. What can you tell me?
• 36:19
  Speaker 14: The one that always gets me, Nancy, Joe Ricari, he
• 36:23
  Speaker 14: is the lead Palm Beach police detective who actually spearheaded
• 36:27
  Speaker 14: the initial investigation against Jeffrey Epstein. And the only real
• 36:32
  Speaker 14: prosecution that happened. And then he was pulled totally out
• 36:35
  Speaker 14: of it when they gave him the cushy negotiated plea.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:39
  Speaker 9: Well, he died.
• 36:40
  Speaker 14: And at the age of 50. OK, as all of
• 36:43
  Speaker 14: this was bubbling to the surface and all of the
• 36:46
  Speaker 14: deal stuff was coming out, he just dies at the
• 36:48
  Speaker 14: age of 50. There were plenty of others from Roy
• 36:51
  Speaker 14: Black to Ken the Star. But and then the suicides
• 36:56
  Speaker 14: like Virginia Dufresne and others died. Jean-Luc Brunel.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: The alleged suicides?
• 37:03
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 37:03
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I apologize. The alleged suicides.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, there's so many more. There's Jean-Luc Brunel. He
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: ran the French modeling agency. He was hanged in Paris.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: He was Epstein's French counterpart. He trafficked girls in France.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: There was the movie producer Stephen Bing. He allegedly jumped
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: from the 27th floor from his L.A. apartment after talking
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: to the FBI about Epstein. There is Thomas Bowers, who
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: ran Deutsche Bank. He was hanged in his home. His bank,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: his wealth management division, moved money for Epstein. I mean,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: it goes on and on and on. So many, up
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: to 22 or more people connected to Epstein have odd,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: suspicious deaths. But tonight, the question is, who are these
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: 25 to 29 guys out of hundreds, hundreds of, there's
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: no better way to put it, Johns, hundreds of Johns
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: that ran through the trafficking mill run by Ghislaine Maxwell.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding this case,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: please dial toll-free 800-225-5324 or call 888-373-7888. Tonight, we remember
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: an American hero, Sergeant Kent Swanson, Shelley, P.D., Idaho, passed
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: away in the line of duty after 16 years serving
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: and protecting, leaving behind his grieving wife, Shelley, and children,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Keegan and Sabry. American hero, Sergeant Kent Swanson. Thank you
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to our guests tonight, especially Haley Robson joining us, Epstein survivor.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off for tonight, but I'll see you
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.