Latest / The Magic Guys / Jason Bird on Building a Magic Career That Actually Pays! #238

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Jason Bird on Building a Magic Career That Actually Pays! #238 · The Magic Guys

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  They're guys. They do magic. They are the Magic Guys.
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  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 238 of the Magic Guys. To my left, we got Nick K.
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  That's right, I'm Nick K. And up above, down below, all around us,
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  is the Holy Spirit of... We got Doug Kahn. What's up, y'all?
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  Daddy's home. Oh, yeah.
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  This is the Magic Guys podcast, where we as professionals share our journey,
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  give you advice where we can, interview wonderful guests.
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  And today we're actually doing the combination of both, which is...
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  Especially for you. But, Nick, we got some friends in the chat because we do this live, baby.
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  That's right, friends. We do it live and we interview some folks.
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  We'd like you to just, if you have any questions, throw them in the chat.
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  We'll throw them at our guest. And thank you all for being here.
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  We have Ed Blatch. Good to see you here, buddy. We have Tim Askin. Damn questions.
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  And we have a new one here. We have Plain Old Bill. So cool.
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  Guys, if you have your questions, pop them in there and we'll throw them around.
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  Yes. And Nick, Melbourne Theater of Magic is booming.
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  Great to see. You're going to see more and more content of it coming up in the
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  weeks if you're not following it already.
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  And Doug, what do you have there, Doug? That looks like the latest.
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  Right before the right before the screen started nick said
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  we should jam on ideas of things you could do with tricks and
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  last week at work at trick supply i was
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  suggesting to wolfgang wall at the proprietor that
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  we should start a we should start a series of
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  magic tricks that should not exist this is
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  the this is one of them it's a playing card
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  to mylar flower no one seems
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  to know what to do with this thing but uh well isn't it let's
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  look nick you'll just ramble for 30 minutes on ideas we're
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  gonna save that we have a we have a great yes but let's get back
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  he's already got ideas yeah all right ladies and gentlemen
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  but yeah that's what that is let's save it for
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  the yeah the jam week hell yeah absolutely nick will go off course so we'll
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  never get to jason's 100 so ladies and gentlemen this week we have a las vegas
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  magician and he has 25 years of experience in the magic game everywhere from
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  cruise ships to the vegas strip But today,
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  he's sharing his real-world approach to building a career in magic,
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  guru systems, strategy, and collaboration.
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  So please welcome, it's Jason Bird.
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  Go pros in the house,
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  what's up guys jason bird thanks for being
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  here buddy the chat is lit we got friends from montreal
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  we've got all kinds of guffin here so please tell
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  us who you are and what do you do my name
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  is jason bird i have been doing magic for 27 years
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  professionally now i moved to vegas when i turned
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  18 i said mom and dad this is where all the magicians live
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  i gotta go and i've been
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  doing magic yeah yeah you look great how
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  old are you we don't ask that
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  around here 40 46 i'm sorry
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  how much do you weigh how much
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  do you eat man you're doing
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  great for like you wouldn't first of all no one would
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  guess you're 46 you have a full head of hair you look so joyful
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  and full of life and so that's got to
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  be a testament i'm not dead yet how yeah that's right that
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  there's got to be a testament to how youthful doing something you
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  love can keep you you know that or
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  something else that i'm not aware of but i think that
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  might be it no man magic keeps us young it's a fact you
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  wake up every day and have this wonderful art to think about we're
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  never done either we can always keep thinking about it even what marlo.
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  And di vernon were both actively creating in their 90s
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  i think so yeah yeah that's crazy you're only
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  halfway done jason you got 45 more years
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  good not really but you look great and again
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  you've been in vegas since 18 you've been crushing the game out
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  there tell us the sort of events you've been doing as well as
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  your tv spots tell us everything yeah so
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  i started my first professional magic gig was
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  at caesar's magical empire which i don't know if you guys ever had
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  a chance to see it but really cool like a themed attraction
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  at caesar's palace where they had wizards walking around and that
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  kind of thing so that was my first like real like first professional gig in
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  las vegas and then were you working at lee asher back in the day yeah yeah yeah
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  i met lee like in 99 yeah it's cool he was at that at that joint and daryl was
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  one of the featured close-up artists there too yes that he i saw his act,
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  his ambitious card where he makes it appear just underneath the rope like at
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  the top it's so good It's mind-blowing I got to see him do it live Which is really cool.
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  And then from there, it just kind of evolved. And I started my own business
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  and started doing corporate gigs, mostly walk around in the beginning.
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  I still do walk around to this day. I love it. It's an art form unlike any others.
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  And this is what I bring up in the book is, you know, the money is good.
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  Like, I still do it to this day. But I started doing, like, bigger shows for
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  corporate events, company parties.
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  And then got my first spot on Masters of Illusion.
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  I did my drone magic trick my drone card trick and i was on three three seasons
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  of that show and then started booking cruise ships i've been working a lot of cruise ships lately,
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  doing doing my shows on cruise ships and but
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  like i said i still even now i i still i'm flying
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  all over the place doing walk around magic because it it pays
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  it pays and they'll pay you to come fly anywhere you want so
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  it doesn't actually matter where you live really anymore yeah which
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  is nice talk about it yeah let's talk about it so for everyone in
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  the chat people are already talking about this book you have and
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  how it's great and so we're going to jump straight into it because the reason
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  we brought you on is the release of your new book which is
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  here strolling for dollars let me enlarge that how to make a living from close-up
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  magic now this is not a small book okay this this is full there's so much the
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  pages are one quarter inch thick so.
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  Yeah yeah this is about pages dot old people
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  yeah now we carved them out
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  of stone like can we like old guys do
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  i now i can already sell them we don't we actually don't have to do this whole
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  podcast i i feel like i could sell this in like 30 seconds and we're good but
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  for the sake of you know we are contractually obliged to do a full hour and
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  we that's what we do race and four but While we're talking about this,
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  if something strikes a nerve and you're like, this is stuff that's going to
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  be good for me, we have a QR code in the top corner of our screen right now,
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  which you can just click and go buy it.
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  Or you can use the link below in wherever you're watching or listening to this as we dive deeper.
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  See, I'm just trying to save time on my words here.
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  I never know when it's Aussie Chup Talk or your... Yeah, yeah.
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  I should have just gone good.
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  As we dive into this, that dive means diving deep. I mean, you youngins.
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  But let me just say this what's what is fascinating in
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  here is it literally has the synopsis i would give is
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  that this has every little thing you might not
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  have thought about when it comes to being a full-time magician
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  it even has a chapter on there where it talks about if you should do magic full-time
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  it has the business stuff in there like the tax things you need to know how
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  to set yourself up as a business there are actual scripts in there for when
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  people ask you how much you charge like there's a script on how to actually
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  deliver it properly and not sound like,
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  oh, I kind of charged and maybe this, but is like how to actually sound like
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  you know what you're worth.
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  And then there's a bunch of interviews from professional magicians,
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  like a good, you know, what of it is from people actually doing it.
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  And then just, you know, one of the smallest bits that I really love in that
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  book is Jason talks about how there's such an unlimited amount of potential
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  of events out there for magicians to be at.
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  This is not a competitors market.
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  Like the, the thing that really solidified it for me in there was just these
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  little words that said, good magic creates more magic or creates more opportunity.
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  They're like, if you just do a good job, all the people at that event will now
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  think of having a magician at their event.
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  And so now you just created opportunities for 10 other events.
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  And that's what it's about. It's not about undercutting someone to get that
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  one gig or else you'll never have a gig again. It's just do good magic.
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  And seeing that it is, you know, the thickness of a Bible, let's talk about
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  the Genesis of it and what made you want to write it to begin with.
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  Yeah. So like I said, I, I had a lot of time on my hands, you know,
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  when you do cruise ships, you have a lot of downtime.
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  So I was like, you know what, instead of just watching YouTube all day.
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  Why don't I do something productive? And I, I thought, you know what,
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  I like, if there's one subject, I think I'm uniquely qualified to talk about
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  is walk around magic, just because I don't know many, very many people that
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  have done more than me over the last 25 years. So I was like,
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  I, you know, I should just do that.
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  So it's been almost two years now that I've been writing the book.
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  And it was just, it was a fascinating exercise to, to really think about the
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  art and really think about,
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  you know, every little detail, like you said, like I really go like
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  granular you know about even the thoughts that
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  you have while you're performing and you know all these different things
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  and i i try to if it if i could think of it
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  i put it in the book it was literally that simple i was like nope
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  it's going in the book and so that was the genesis of it and like you said like
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  good good magic leads to more magic you know that it's not as it's not a sum
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  zero game you know that there's only so many gigs that's just a limiting way
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  to thinking like Like if you have other people booking you,
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  you're booking other people and just more magic, it's going to increase the size of the pie.
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  You know, it's not even so much your slice of it. The whole pie gets bigger.
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  So that's really what I wanted to empower people to do because I've seen it.
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  I've seen enough people, you know, struggle or I've known plenty of magicians
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  that are fantastic and they just can't seem to make it work like on the business side of it.
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  And they just seem very, you know, illiterate when it comes to the business
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  side of things, you know?
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  So, so I was like, if that's, if that's what the person's having trouble with,
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  that's what I want to help them with.
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  If they're having trouble, you know, with crowd management, that's what I want to help them with.
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  So, you know, every little thing from the performance to the,
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  to the business side is out there.
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  And then the, the interviews are just kind of icing on the cake.
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  And even I learned a lot from interviewing some of those people. I was like,
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  oh man i have never thought about that before it just
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  i learned so much talking with those people it was fantastic that's amazing
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  and you know one of the things we get asked a lot one of the things we asked
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  about a lot is like there is a fear that comes along with the roving gig and
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  approaching strangers and that's
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  we get asked that more than anything when it comes to the sort of uh.
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  The questions on the pod and whatever else, when we do have these spitballing
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  sessions and try to help our listeners.
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  Yeah. What advice do you have for folks trying to overcome that fear?
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  I would agree. It's probably the number one thing, at least,
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  I mean, it was for me, even to this day, I still get nervous.
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  That's why I give the advice in the book that if you, when you start your gig,
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  at least for me personally, I try to do my first table as soon as I possibly can.
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  Cause once you get that first table out of the way, everything else
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  is just fine it's it's when you don't perform for
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  five minutes ten minutes and you know you start looking for
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  that perfect table and there's no such thing as a perfect table
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  so you you start to psych yourself out you know so
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  for me it was like hey try to get out there and and do
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  the first thing that you possibly can but then
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  it's it's really just have a
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  script that's what i would say the biggest thing so
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  especially those first few lines have something like verbatim
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  word for word that is a script that you can you
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  know that it's good and you can put that almost on autopilot because
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  then that frees your mind up to actually talk and interact
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  and respond to the people that you're talking to so
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  and that's you got to keep your mind free so that you can notice those kinds
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  of moments you know and the way to do that is with a good script so you know
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  okay i i know this i got my beats i get i know the exact exact jokes like that
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  i lead up to it like right before and i rarely deviate from that.
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  And I just know that it's like a natural kind of launch pad.
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  And I talk about scripting and how to come up with that approach at your table.
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  But once you do, just stick with it and you can kind of almost rely on it so
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  that you can almost put it on autopilot.
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  You don't have to stress about it. You just go right into the script and then you just boom.
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  And then you leave yourself open to respond when they respond.
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  And that's what makes the performance unique then at that
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  point but yeah you're right it's it's trial by fire a lot of times
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  so you're walking around these gigs and it's like they didn't come
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  to see you you know you're there's no like they
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  didn't come even go sit at a stage like they're
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  like they were just having dinner and now you're walking up to them so it
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  isn't it you kind of have to have a certain mindset about
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  it just like kind of real dialed in and just
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  know in your heart these people are going to
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  love what i'm doing you know they don't know it yet but they're
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  gonna end up loving it and they always do they always love it
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  well almost always but but
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  you learn those situations too and a lot of times i can i can
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  pretty much know immediately when i walk up
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  to a table like oh did i make a mistake should i not have walked up to this
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  table or oh this table is gonna be really fun you know you can just you can
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  just pick up on people's vibes you know when you walk a bit about that like
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  if you if you hit a rough spot maybe how do you bow out grace for gracefully
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  or how do you handle like when a table is maybe not good and you're there.
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  That's why part of my biggest advice is
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  i tell people to start with your strongest trick most
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  people would say end with your strongest trick but with walk around
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  i almost think it's it's important just to get the first one just bam really
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  hard and it's a test it's a test for them too and because you're like okay well
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  i just showed you the best thing i do so if you didn't like that it's it's not
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  going to get any better from here like yeah you know so you can then you You just do one trick.
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  They don't know that you were going to do three or whatever.
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  You just say, hey, thank you so much. Enjoy your night. And you walk off.
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  It's a numbers game. Walkaround is all about a numbers game.
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  So if this table is not great, there's another one 10 feet from you. And they might love it.
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  So go work that table. I love that advice. It's starting with the banger.
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  I do follow that approach on the street, which is kind of the same environment. Meeting strangers.
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  You have to impress them. Make them like you right away. And it's,
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  yeah, it's, you know, a lot of times people don't think that way about a short
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  magic act, but yeah, I dig it.
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  Cool. I love that. Hey, we had a question from our comment section.
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  Now we've answered this question before the three of us, but I'm really interested
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  to hear your advice on this coming from working gigs in Vegas in a hot climate.
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  So Tim Underwood has asked, what are your tips on how to stay cool if you're
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  having to do an outdoor gig in warm weather while still looking crisp and profesh?
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  Do you have thoughts on this does this come up if you
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  figure if you figure it out let me know no the
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  main thing i would you know handkerchief that's not negotiable you have to have
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  a handkerchief in your pocket because i i do sweat a lot at gigs and especially
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  like my costume it's a lot of velvet coats you know just that's how i roll so
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  those are really hot and but the the handkerchief is a good idea.
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  The, they do make, I think, I can't remember if I had one at one point,
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  but they hang around your neck.
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  You wouldn't wear it for the gig, but maybe on your brakes, you could just put
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  it on. But it's like a little, like a horseshoe kind of shape that goes around
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  your neck and it blows up.
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  Like it sucks the air from underneath here and it blows it up.
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  So it like, you know, without it being over your face or whatever,
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  it kind of cools you from the, from the bottom up.
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  I think some of them are, might missed, but I don't think most of them do,
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  but that might be a good alternative.
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  And you know if you're going to be working outside i put
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  this in the book too make sure you wear sunscreen because i've been
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  i've been burned many times working gigs that i
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  was like oh this will be fine and then the sun you know slowly comes up over
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  the hotel and now you're in the you know in the beating sunlight and then you
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  know it doesn't take very long to get burned if you don't have surprising how
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  bad things can go quickly when you're not usually being in the sun for an hour
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  much less actively performing.
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  Yep.
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  Yeah. I mean, you're in Brisbane, which is basically a quarter mile from the
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  sun. It gets warm there. Like most definitely.
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  Thankfully, there is something that I've mentioned on previous episodes.
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  I employ you, Jason, scope it out. It's called an Arctic cooling vest.
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  And it's effectively a vest, which has these gels inside of it,
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  which you soak it in water. The gels activate.
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  You put it in the fridge. They can freeze. And then you can wear it underneath
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  just as a vest. You wear a size that's tight on your body, so it's skin tight.
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  You put your jacket on top, none the wiser, and it'll lower your body temperature about 18 degrees.
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  It's the type of thing you'll see the Formula One drivers wearing when they're
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  in Singapore in really hot environments on the thing when they do the national
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  anthem and so forth. And then they'll take that off, put their suit on, and then go racing.
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  So it is intended for sports use.
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  I have three of them, and I use them in circulation come summertime.
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  But without them, it would be the death of me. Like, cause I wear a three piece
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  suit, you know, mohair suit. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah.
• 18:19
  Uh, how, how are they not sponsoring us? Honestly.
• 18:22
  I know. I know. We mentioned you guys got to work on that. A hundred percent.
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  And then my little tidbit would, for friends would be like controlling my breathing
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  seems to be a massive one. Yes.
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  That's a huge one. Really can make myself relax. Like your mind,
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  your body will react to your mind.
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  If you let your body do the reacting, you're screwed. And then being really
• 18:43
  rehearsed and comfortable in this situation will stop.
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  Because the moment you get nervous, your heart races and that makes you sweat.
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  It's like you'll see any magician that like if something goes wrong in a show,
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  the first thing will happen is they'll start sweating because now.
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  So like the more you can just just chill, relax.
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  Know what you're going to do because you're prepared that will really
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  really really help you not get into that situation as well
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  but look talking about actual how
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  do you plan to do magic with ed he has
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  asked what type of tricks make up your strolling act
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  is it cards or do you do three sets what
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  is your preference i when i
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  come up with a set it's usually three tricks i just found
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  that that's kind of the sweet the sweet spot you're you're
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  still wanting leaving them wanting more but you still
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  got to get a good flow of different things i this
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  is just me personally i know everybody's different i i would
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  not do three card tricks like in a row if i was doing my three
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  set i i think magicians love
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  cards a lot more than audience members do so if
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  you've got one you know maybe two really strong
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  card tricks and i probably wouldn't even do those two in the same in
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  the same set so i i usually have three sets of
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  three tricks that's when i go out to a gig so i
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  know i've got three solid acts and i can go to
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  the same table a little bit later in the night and show them three completely
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  different tricks but each of those three tricks has like a flow to it so i might
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  one of my routines i think i open with the card trick and then another one i
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  think i close with it but i would i would try to just do something different
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  so i would i would do maybe one thing cards.
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  One thing like a mentalism kind of thing and then another thing you know,
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  another magic like, I don't know,
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  a prediction or you know, something that's like, you know again,
• 20:31
  bringing the kind of the energy back up but I like texture in my performances
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  so that's why I know some guys are just they would just go out and do five card tricks in a row.
• 20:39
  I don't, that's not me. I don't think that's, you know I love,
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  I love card tricks but I just think you know, to have a little bit of variation
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  and have some texture to that three trick
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  set I think is is great so that's
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  that's how I structure my sets you know I start really
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  strong and then kind of you know maybe talk a little bit more
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  and it kind of you know dips down a little bit during the middle that maybe
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  that's when they get to know me and I talk a little bit more kind of
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  personal because now they've seen one thing so as soon as they see one trick
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  and they know you're for real you know that because anybody could just say they're
• 21:12
  a magician but once they see how good you are then they're all of a sudden you
• 21:16
  have their attention you know so I I kind of use that and then the third one
• 21:19
  i i bounce right back up with something really really strong again yeah,
• 21:24
  when doing magic i make it a rule in
• 21:27
  my head to never start my set with card magic so yeah they don't get that pre-consumption
• 21:33
  of eyes yeah card trick and it's going to be the one where he finds it and so
• 21:36
  it's always something that's like a coin trick with a bottle production if it's
• 21:40
  like a gala table or a pen trick a lot of viewers who've seen me a lot will
• 21:44
  know my little sharpie routine I mean,
• 21:46
  it's always something non-card related.
• 21:49
  But something I loved in your book was how you choose which of your tricks you do.
• 21:55
  To put in your strolling set as in like which how do
• 21:58
  you know which ones are strong enough to go on your set and you worded it
• 22:01
  kind of nicely you're like you're not choosing the tricks that people were impressed
• 22:05
  by the method at your magic club this has to be like hard-hitting stuff for
• 22:09
  the public and so what yeah what could you talk about that a little bit more
• 22:13
  as well because that's interesting you can't just do every acorn you know because
• 22:17
  that impresses yes the magic club you know,
• 22:20
  And that's another thing I try to stay
• 22:23
  somewhat Flexible in my routines too so that I
• 22:26
  have outs It's almost like and I've
• 22:29
  been doing this for Years but Joan Decor said it this way That it's almost like
• 22:32
  a flow chart That if you do one thing did they like it Yes did they not here
• 22:37
  and then You kind of branch off and it's like a Choose your own adventure kind
• 22:40
  of show Where you kind of know okay this is where I can bring them Back and
• 22:44
  you know obviously that's a little Bit complex and you got to know your material really Well but.
• 22:49
  Yeah you just stay kind of adapted to the
• 22:52
  group and do stuff and this is this is why it's so important
• 22:55
  to listen to your audience and you know
• 22:58
  because we fall in love with our tricks and there's
• 23:01
  ones i'm as guilty as anybody like i'll
• 23:04
  keep it in the show because i'm like you're gonna like this this is really good
• 23:07
  and they're just you can just tell that they're not vibing with it like you
• 23:11
  hope they would and at the end of the day i mean give it a chance you know maybe
• 23:15
  there was a bad audience or whatever but if i do it a few dozen times or whatever
• 23:18
  and it's like man, this thing has never hit,
• 23:22
  you know, either change something drastic about it to make it hit,
• 23:24
  or maybe that's just not, you know, maybe it doesn't just jive with your personality.
• 23:28
  Maybe it's, maybe it's not a good trick, you know, you, you never know.
• 23:32
  So you have to be brutally honest with yourself when you're assessing your,
• 23:36
  you know, your magic set, you know, and that's why, again, it's important to
• 23:40
  listen to your audience because they will tell you, they'll tell you with their
• 23:43
  eyes, they'll tell you with your expressions,
• 23:45
  with the way they breathe, with the way they, you know relax or
• 23:48
  or tense it up like you you got to pay attention to
• 23:50
  all those little things and they will tell you exactly what
• 23:54
  they how they feel about the trick if you know what to look for so you just
• 23:56
  got to make sure you look for it well i guess that comes down
• 23:59
  to an audience psychology of like when you approach a group like
• 24:02
  which person do you do you choose in order to break up like as if there was
• 24:06
  an alpha of the group who's the loudest one you kind of want to get them to
• 24:08
  stop talking and say you're there would you choose the card politely like what
• 24:11
  sort of tips do you have with regards to dealing with individual audience members
• 24:16
  and also like the rejection that you might get from those folks as well?
• 24:21
  Wow. Well, those are, yeah, two, two important things kind of different.
• 24:25
  So the, the first one, if, if you know, you've got one of those people that
• 24:30
  are just, they're just not going to let you work.
• 24:31
  They're going to be, they're going to be a problem and it's going to happen.
• 24:35
  So you kind of have to be mentally prepared for that. It's not the end of the world.
• 24:39
  Again, if they're being that bad, you just excuse yourself and you walk away.
• 24:42
  You don't have to be a jerk. You just say, you know, it's nice meeting you all
• 24:45
  tonight and you just get out of there and you go to somewhere else, you know.
• 24:49
  But as far as if you if you run into that type of person, I try to give them.
• 24:55
  You want to at least this is me i i want
• 24:58
  to challenge them as little as possible you know so i
• 25:02
  want to either bring them into the show like you said actually have them
• 25:04
  choose the card you know to almost give them something to do
• 25:07
  and you're kind of like putting that faux kind of spotlight on them like
• 25:10
  oh look at you you know and you know
• 25:13
  it takes it it comes into consideration you
• 25:17
  know and some of that again comes from
• 25:20
  walking up to the a group
• 25:23
  and you can just tell oh this guy's here on a first date with this girl you
• 25:26
  know and he's invited he's you know meeting all he she's meeting all of his
• 25:31
  friends for the first time or whatever you know you never know where people
• 25:34
  are coming from when you walk up to a table so you know be be empathetic be understanding.
• 25:41
  And sometimes they they're not trying to necessarily mess
• 25:44
  you up they just don't know how to behave as an audience member they
• 25:47
  they're just their ego like just won't let them do that
• 25:50
  just let you have a show and so i try
• 25:53
  to involve them as sometimes i'll
• 25:57
  have them choose a card if they're the right kind of person you
• 26:00
  know if i think i can win them over and be like oh i think
• 26:03
  i got you i think i i know exactly what to do and i'll i'll try
• 26:06
  that and i'll have them do something and then you can kind of get them to be quiet for
• 26:09
  a while or if it's just not happening then i
• 26:11
  i will actually go the other way and specifically almost
• 26:15
  like x them out of the group like like if
• 26:18
  they're over at the side i'll i'll turn my i'll literally
• 26:21
  turn like my back to that person and have somebody else choose a
• 26:23
  card and now you're it's almost like okay well
• 26:26
  you you don't know how to behave so you don't get to be part of the group and
• 26:30
  you can do all that subconsciously just with your body language and it's crazy
• 26:34
  how often they get the message and they're like oh okay this guy is not gonna
• 26:37
  let me run over him and they give you like respect and all of a sudden they
• 26:41
  snap too and it's fine after that and then worst case scenario if they're not
• 26:45
  fine after that again you just walk way.
• 26:48
  You know hey it was nice meeting everybody yeah and
• 26:51
  a lot of times what'll happen especially if you do like cocktail hours or
• 26:54
  whatever you know those groups are constantly breaking up
• 26:57
  and people are moving around and and they're
• 27:00
  reforming in different spots so you just remember
• 27:02
  who that person is i've done i've done stuff before where
• 27:05
  the people i knew who else was at the table and i
• 27:08
  could tell they were really into it but this guy was just being not fun
• 27:12
  he was being a jerk so i'll be like hey i'll tell you what
• 27:14
  if i'm walking around the party i'll see you a little bit later i'll show
• 27:17
  you maybe i'll show you something else to the good people and then
• 27:20
  yeah maybe 30 minutes later all of a sudden they're with a totally
• 27:23
  different group of people or they're by themselves and i go up
• 27:26
  and i'll show them the trick you know or a few things and and
• 27:29
  i've had lots of people go like oh you handled that really well like you
• 27:32
  know i'm so sorry about my friend you know blah blah blah they'll you
• 27:35
  know apologize for them but yeah that that's
• 27:38
  what i would say is the three levels to it and what
• 27:41
  we're talking about for those listening this is a very small part
• 27:44
  of strolling gigs this is not yeah i'm going to.
• 27:47
  Encounter this at every other table you know like the but it's
• 27:50
  the fear yeah the fear that's right
• 27:53
  that's right and it's for you guys to understand that like we only
• 27:56
  fear like there's only two percent you got a fear the 98 is going
• 27:58
  to be like a good time and is yeah that's probably a good
• 28:01
  estimate yeah and is the squeeze worth the
• 28:04
  juice yeah you know like once you realize
• 28:07
  once you realize that someone heckling you and
• 28:10
  you politely walking away doesn't affect
• 28:13
  anything like it doesn't affect how
• 28:16
  the client thinks of you it doesn't affect how the audience thought of you it
• 28:19
  doesn't affect anyone's opinion you don't get paid any less nothing bad happens
• 28:23
  then you'll be like oh i can just leave that group early like once you clock
• 28:29
  that you can be so confident deliver that line well it's nice meeting you and move along.
• 28:36
  And then, you know, and, and what's so great is all of those kinds of things
• 28:39
  are in this book, my friends. Okay.
• 28:42
  So again, even talks about what we just mentioned, how to put together a routine,
• 28:47
  something that we don't have in Australia is a tipping culture.
• 28:51
  But obviously I know a lot of friends of ours in the U S especially doing restaurants
• 28:55
  and things will, will a lot of their living will come from tips.
• 28:59
  So I met, I noticed there was a section in there
• 29:02
  you have some tips for tipping which is very
• 29:05
  clever um we should coin that i
• 29:08
  think there's a there's a few establishments in vegas that
• 29:11
  employ magicians like every day and those guys are working for mostly tips if
• 29:16
  i'm not mistaken there's like yeah there's a couple like capos i think and uh
• 29:22
  the john wick experience has magicians nightly oh i didn't know that oh that's Yeah,
• 29:29
  I think they do pay their magicians a nominal fee, but most of the real money
• 29:32
  is in the tips they make from their.
• 29:34
  Yeah but if you can't get tips you know
• 29:38
  we can't make money so what what um what
• 29:40
  advice do you have for our friends in the tip economy see
• 29:45
  i make a distinction at the beginning of the book that
• 29:47
  that's where something like doug where you were talking about like you know
• 29:50
  busking and then you know it being a kind of a corollary adjacent
• 29:54
  to restaurant magic is and i
• 29:57
  say that the kind of strolling magic even though
• 30:00
  it might be technically strolling magic you know
• 30:03
  the kind of gigs that i'm talking about is where you're paid to be
• 30:06
  there you don't have to worry about the tips that's why i kind
• 30:09
  of draw a line of like that's kind of what makes that real in
• 30:12
  a way that strolling magic isn't because when you
• 30:15
  got to hustle for tips it is a different mindset you have to have your tip lines
• 30:19
  and you know your hat lines and all that stuff so it is a little bit different
• 30:23
  of a psychology so i'm actually more comfortable with the with the the other
• 30:27
  side of like hey i'm i'm getting paid really good money to be here i don't need
• 30:30
  to hustle for tips i'm being paid well And in fact,
• 30:33
  usually my first line when somebody tips me is I say, no, no, no.
• 30:36
  I said, they paid me very well to be here. Don't worry about that.
• 30:39
  You don't have to do that.
• 30:41
  Most of the time they'll insist, you know, and then eventually,
• 30:43
  you know, if it's, if it's a good tip, then I'd be like, okay, I'll take it.
• 30:48
  But it frees you up. Yeah. Yeah. It frees you up to not have to worry about the tips.
• 30:54
  That's why then when you get a nice tip, when you get a hundred dollar bill
• 30:57
  or whatever, and you're like, oh, that's, oh, that's bonus.
• 30:59
  That's really cool. you know but you don't have to rely on
• 31:03
  it you know i've done i've done street magic busking before
• 31:05
  and it was like when you're when it's only tips all of
• 31:08
  a sudden that's even more terrifying so that's why this
• 31:11
  book is a little bit more geared towards you're you're finding work with agents
• 31:15
  with clients you know directly and you're booking and you know you're getting
• 31:18
  paid before you you know you leave the house so that that's kind of more the
• 31:23
  realm i live in yeah i really love that line no no don't worry i'm paid really
• 31:27
  well to be here that's so good yeah um,
• 31:30
  Look, I've worked restaurants where I wasn't paid really well,
• 31:34
  but I projected that attitude when they were important.
• 31:37
  And then the tips I got were, and I still refused them the first time.
• 31:42
  Like you said, they always insisted. And it was never a couple bucks.
• 31:46
  It was always a 20 or more.
• 31:50
  And that was, you know, we're talking late 90s when I was regularly strolling
• 31:54
  restaurants. That's some advice.
• 31:56
  Yeah. Just portray your value.
• 32:00
  Yep. there's a couple of comments here that i think lead to an interesting question
• 32:04
  i'm almost here about doing a 32 phase ambitious card and so forth only 32 yeah mine's only 31.
• 32:13
  Well there's do you think that's what i call a good a good start yeah.
• 32:20
  Is that is do you think there's a time that you should be spending with people in which like,
• 32:25
  x amount of time is perfect don't overkeep your stay
• 32:28
  what do you think is the ideal amount of time to spend with the group
• 32:31
  this again this is just me personally because
• 32:34
  i've seen people make it work other ways like
• 32:37
  i've seen i say this in the book i've seen daniel cross
• 32:40
  just like throw down a table and do a 30 minute close-up show for anybody that
• 32:45
  wanted to come around and he did like two of those in an hour and then he was
• 32:48
  gone and here i'm like walking table to table i was like that's kind of cool
• 32:52
  but it's not really my style i like to show as many people as much magic as
• 32:57
  possible, the time that I'm there.
• 32:58
  So I would say my normal set is probably three effects that are probably eight
• 33:05
  to ten minutes I would say, kind of at each spot.
• 33:09
  And they play big enough that I can gather a pretty big crowd and that counts as one of my sets. But I.
• 33:17
  And again, this is assuming everything kind of goes to plan normal.
• 33:21
  You know, if they if they really stink, I'm not going to sit there for three
• 33:24
  tricks. I know some magicians that are like, no, you're going to see everything
• 33:27
  I got. And I'm like, why would you do that to yourself?
• 33:30
  They're not they're not into it. Just cut bait and go. And again,
• 33:33
  like you said, it's two percent.
• 33:35
  It's not that, you know, I don't want to freak people out, but it's better to
• 33:39
  be prepared for it and not need it than need it and not be prepared for it.
• 33:43
  So, so yeah, I would say probably eight to 10 minutes, you know,
• 33:48
  if they're a really good group, I might throw a fourth one in there,
• 33:51
  you know, maybe a new thing that I'm working on or something that like hits
• 33:54
  really strong and I'm just trying it out.
• 33:56
  I don't even say, Hey, this is a, this is a new trick. You guys want to see something really new.
• 33:59
  And of course, at that point, they're like, Oh my God, yeah, that'd be great.
• 34:03
  And then you just set it up as something special. And then also that's my time to like,
• 34:07
  if I'm going to mess up a trick, it's because I set it up this way,
• 34:09
  you know, and it's almost like,
• 34:11
  Oh, he was just learning it people are so understanding about
• 34:14
  stuff like that if you just said even if it's something you've done a thousand
• 34:17
  times they don't know that you can be like hey do you want to see something new you
• 34:21
  know show them this trick and if for some reason it does
• 34:24
  mess up or whatever you just you cover over it move on
• 34:27
  and do another one but yeah eight i would say eight to ten minutes
• 34:30
  it's probably the sweet spot yeah and i think you're talking from a definitely a
• 34:33
  corporate perspective where if you had a table and that would be perfect
• 34:36
  you have like 10 tables you're there for a couple of hours you
• 34:39
  do 10 minutes on each table you're great you know but also i
• 34:41
  think that you know it's also depending on your environment if
• 34:44
  you're doing a restaurant and they're making cocktails each cocktail takes
• 34:47
  five minutes to make and 10 people at a table you spend
• 34:50
  a little time with them and just say you know thank you for your patience and
• 34:53
  you finish your set and go great cocktails shouldn't be too far away let me
• 34:56
  go check up on them for you and you walk away and then cocktails come out two
• 34:59
  minutes later like there is that yeah it's customer experience being keen a
• 35:03
  strolling realm really good question from alex yeah i was gonna So when you're roving,
• 35:08
  there's one here from, oh, okay.
• 35:11
  So, sorry, yeah. These are all good questions everyone's putting in the chat. So thank you, everyone.
• 35:16
  But from Alex, serious question. So banquet table. So this is the big round table.
• 35:20
  Everyone's tightly seated inside with no room to work because everyone's sort
• 35:24
  of shoulder to shoulder and people have to turn 180 from their food to see you sometimes.
• 35:29
  Jason, what do you do in that situation? What's your opening line or way to sort of get into that?
• 35:35
  I don't know if the opening, I think the opening line would be kind of the same,
• 35:38
  but what I would do, because I worked those before, the 10 top,
• 35:42
  you know, big round banquet tables.
• 35:45
  Is I typically, because it's sometimes hard to just wedge yourself in between
• 35:50
  two of those seats because they, they, they're pretty tight.
• 35:52
  So what I'll look for is an opening.
• 35:54
  So maybe one person at the table that's not sitting in their seat and
• 35:57
  I'll walk up into that kind of blank space introduce myself
• 36:01
  and now but i walk all the way up to the edge of the table
• 36:03
  so that way even the people at the worst angle are
• 36:06
  right next to me and they're still just turning their heads and they
• 36:09
  can see me right there so there's no they don't have to turn
• 36:12
  around at all it's just like oh you're right you're right here so
• 36:15
  in some respects they have the best seat in the house because they're
• 36:18
  right next to you but angle wise probably the worst seats
• 36:21
  you know but i'll still play everything and this is where where
• 36:24
  effect selection comes in is you know
• 36:26
  in that case i would do something where you actually do have to
• 36:29
  look down on it so i would put it in the middle of the
• 36:32
  table because that way now now you've
• 36:35
  just negated the fact that it's a circle because everybody's now looking into
• 36:38
  the center of it so everybody kind of in a weird way has
• 36:40
  the exact same perspective on whatever you're showing them so
• 36:44
  that's a good time to do something that is actually lay flat
• 36:47
  on a table so that everybody can look down on it whether it's you
• 36:50
  know whatever like a like invisible
• 36:53
  some type of car yeah perfect example yeah
• 36:55
  yeah so you would i would put that in the middle of the table give everybody something
• 36:58
  to focus on and then from there you just literally just walk you know you pick
• 37:03
  up the deck and then you spread through and so everybody is looking down having
• 37:06
  the same angle at those cards looking down and then that one card's upside down
• 37:09
  and bang like it's yeah it's killer a couple of example sorry keep going yeah
• 37:14
  no i was just your effect selection and what will save you in those instances is.
• 37:18
  Yeah, a couple of quick examples I can think of is one I remember seeing David
• 37:23
  Penn talk about, and now I do it in this situation, is liquid metal,
• 37:27
  the fork bending, because you can do the routine by leaning the hand that has
• 37:33
  the fork over the shoulder of someone, and they're blowing on the fork or whatever,
• 37:38
  so they're watching it directly,
• 37:39
  and now the magic is happening in the table.
• 37:43
  So you can do that so every single phase you can move
• 37:46
  around to another person hold it out in front of them so
• 37:48
  everyone's going to see them reacting to the fork but everyone
• 37:51
  can see it and then now this routine i don't do
• 37:54
  but there's sam angelico australian fism
• 37:57
  winner from back in the 80s he did he lectures
• 38:00
  this routine where he has a folded up envelope with a
• 38:03
  rubber band around it and he gives it to one person he goes what do
• 38:06
  you think's in it and it feels flat and they might
• 38:09
  guess money and he goes interesting pass it to the next
• 38:11
  person and he lets everyone pass it around and try and guess what
• 38:14
  it is and then when he opens it up he takes out a
• 38:17
  shot glass and boom you've got your first effect and it's from
• 38:20
  like a thing that gets passed around the whole audience that's
• 38:23
  cool um and so to what jason's jason's point so so your advice is not so much
• 38:29
  how do i get everyone to move out of the way or whatever it's actually how do
• 38:32
  you choose an effect yeah can work where it's in the table so to speak you see
• 38:38
  something down a prediction.
• 38:40
  Something like that yeah it's it's
• 38:43
  perfect i i used to do when i would walk up because it i'm
• 38:46
  also doing it that way having something passed out i love because
• 38:49
  it builds intrigue it builds this fence of like oh what what is
• 38:52
  that thing like that's why when i i use a kennedy
• 38:55
  box for my ambitious routine and i'll i'll the first thing
• 38:58
  i walk up when i i'm like oh hey this is for you and it's
• 39:01
  got a rubber band around it and i said well you can't open it yet but
• 39:04
  that that's for you for later and then you almost forget about it but now people
• 39:07
  are all they can think about is that little box that you give that
• 39:10
  person you know what's in the box so so
• 39:14
  and then it kind of builds intrigue and then at the end you almost remind them
• 39:18
  oh remember that thing at the very beginning bam there's your card signed
• 39:21
  in it or whatever it's it's it can
• 39:24
  be really strong way to start your set is by not even
• 39:27
  telling right away that you're a magician but oh this is for you and you
• 39:29
  hand them that they're like what it's there's instant like
• 39:32
  intrigue there you know when you do that yeah you
• 39:35
  know there's a question here from brad morgan that raises an interesting point just
• 39:38
  with regards to routine yeah basically it's he's asking do
• 39:41
  you have a bag or something that you used to carry or is
• 39:44
  everything on your person when you perform i have done it different ways over
• 39:49
  the years i've kind of settled on i bring a little tiny like it's either a tool
• 39:54
  kit or a makeup kit it's just a cheap from harbor freight or or wherever online
• 39:58
  a little case like a hard sided case and it's real small.
• 40:03
  I don't, I don't like carrying something really big with me,
• 40:06
  even the size of a briefcase.
• 40:08
  I'm not, I like, I just bring a nice case small enough that I can throw everything in there.
• 40:12
  And I find a place that I can kind of stash it for the gig. And I tell the,
• 40:17
  you know, the people, the bartender or whatever, that's kind of watching it.
• 40:20
  I'll be like, Hey, I'm, I need to access this a couple of times throughout the night.
• 40:24
  And so that's why I'll put, I'll put probably two of my sets on me.
• 40:28
  And then another, you know, one, two sets inside of my case.
• 40:32
  And that's behind the bar behind whatever and that's where
• 40:35
  you can keep your really special stuff if you've got the deck of cards that
• 40:37
  says happy birthday you know and the person's name or whatever you you
• 40:40
  know i wouldn't carry that around with me all
• 40:43
  the time on the off chance that somebody has a birthday that night but i
• 40:46
  have it so that if i want to get the information then go
• 40:49
  back later and now i blow their minds because it says happy birthday on
• 40:52
  it or whatever but again i wouldn't i wouldn't dedicate
• 40:56
  pocket space to that on every time i go
• 40:58
  out so that's that's the short answers i keep
• 41:01
  i keep probably you know four or five effects on me and
• 41:04
  then the rest i keep in my case and i switch it out on my brakes you
• 41:07
  ever see folks rove with tables yeah yeah
• 41:11
  i know it's not my it's not
• 41:14
  my style i've seen people pull it off
• 41:17
  you brought up david penn david penn says he's he's not
• 41:20
  he's unapologetic about bringing a table around with.
• 41:22
  Him when he when he does hopping and i was like man that's you're a
• 41:26
  better man than i because i just to me as
• 41:28
  little as i need to set up and take down that's that's why
• 41:31
  sweet spot so that's why if it can be in their hands it can
• 41:34
  be up here it can be you know i don't even need
• 41:37
  a close-up pad i don't need a table i don't need it's just more
• 41:40
  to worry about in my head and you want to be as adaptable as
• 41:43
  possible to anywhere that you go it's i
• 41:46
  say this in the book it's fine if you want to use a table it's not
• 41:49
  to me it's not okay if you have to have a table there's a
• 41:52
  big difference you know so yeah so
• 41:56
  i think i guess it's also i guess
• 41:59
  it's also how you've sold it to the client right yeah that's
• 42:02
  true because i because we're all talking about this stuff and
• 42:05
  i know doug has his very particular approach which works
• 42:08
  super well right doug like you'll sell it to the client that you'll set up an
• 42:11
  area yeah magic will happen and people can come up to you which i mean it's
• 42:15
  two different things you know i often get calls for strolling entertainment
• 42:18
  and that's fine when that's what the client needs but i always encourage them
• 42:22
  to consider a more theatrical uh.
• 42:26
  Uh form kind of like a daniel cross thing you're talking
• 42:28
  about where you set up a station and people come to you and
• 42:31
  a lot of people will dig that they love that they were like
• 42:34
  oh i didn't think of that that would be really great you sometimes it's
• 42:37
  so much of so much of it is educating your client on what
• 42:40
  they really want because sometimes they don't know they just saw something
• 42:43
  or whatever so you can usually guide them and be
• 42:46
  like you know what i think would be even better what if i set up a little table with
• 42:49
  a sign that says magic and people can come over to me and do a show as
• 42:52
  long as you pitch whatever you pitch is what you end
• 42:54
  up doing yeah whatever it is you just can't switch like
• 42:58
  sometimes yeah the event needs strolling you know
• 43:01
  and that's great and and if you're going to do theatrical
• 43:04
  you better know how to stroll because if you.
• 43:07
  Choose one approach and it's no good you you're going
• 43:10
  to still need to get the work so it's like exactly yeah it's
• 43:13
  nice to be a jack of all trades in some respects when
• 43:16
  you're a close close-up worker i could talk about
• 43:19
  this all day like i'm a big fan of ozzy win's style of
• 43:22
  magic but i know from friends who have done gigs with
• 43:25
  him in a banquet setting geez i
• 43:27
  must have a good budget to book him but he he will actually walk
• 43:30
  into a table he'll sit down he'll say all right come and
• 43:33
  watch this he'll do stuff and then he'll say go over
• 43:36
  to a table on the other end and ask them to name
• 43:39
  a card and while they go away stuff happens here and
• 43:42
  now that table's finding out there's a magician because he sent him
• 43:45
  over there and he creates brilliant i i really love
• 43:48
  that as well and so every now and then when there's because
• 43:51
  at every banquet table there always seems to be like someone who didn't
• 43:54
  turn up or like they've left the table they've left the chair free that's like
• 43:59
  would have their back to the stage when when they're doing speeches so sometimes
• 44:03
  i will sit down if it's not a big busy massive banquet thing with lots of stuff
• 44:08
  it's just a different approach But all right, I want to get to the serious stuff,
• 44:12
  Jason, because it's great to get to these gigs, but what I feel like really,
• 44:17
  really helps you make a good living from strolling, and I know you know this,
• 44:22
  is to be able to get rebooked from the gigs you're at.
• 44:26
  Like the way we have this abundance of work is we do good magic and people from
• 44:30
  the event will want to book us, but also the client that had us.
• 44:35
  Yeah. You like, it's almost like this gig is the audition for them to want to
• 44:39
  rebook you again, right?
• 44:41
  If we want to have this forever role of events and build this, this snowball.
• 44:46
  So do you have tips or things you'll do specifically that sort of imply you can.
• 44:54
  You have different magic to show your guests next time or
• 44:57
  like is there anything you can or do you offer a different package for next
• 45:00
  time or like how do you follow up with them like what what's your sort of headspace
• 45:03
  at with okay i need to you know get more work essentially in the nicest way
• 45:09
  possible from this event it's it's almost a mix of all the things that you just said so,
• 45:16
  first do great magic you know and then
• 45:19
  second of all i would say is organization you
• 45:22
  know as soon as somebody books you they should be on your spreadsheet
• 45:25
  of like past clients you know so that you can be sending
• 45:28
  it they can be on your email letter newsletter people just
• 45:31
  forget that you could be the best magician in the world but
• 45:34
  if i swear i've had people that are like they'll do their
• 45:37
  event next year and i'll find out i'll be like why didn't you call me and they're
• 45:39
  like oh my god i totally forgot about you like don't take
• 45:42
  it personally they just forget so that you've got to be
• 45:45
  in people's ear all the time and reminding them that
• 45:48
  oh you had such a great time this is that whatever getting testimonials
• 45:52
  is a great way so i i'm this is something i'm
• 45:55
  actually kind of bad at but i've been trying to get more testimonials lately
• 45:59
  from the clients to be like oh he you know jason was great blah blah blah that'll
• 46:04
  help you get you know rebooked will help you get booked other places and and
• 46:09
  just be you know this is going to sound so corny but.
• 46:14
  Think of it as bigger than magic like i like a
• 46:17
  lot of my best clients they're they're almost like my friends at this point
• 46:21
  you know that you you start to get to know them and they book you for events
• 46:24
  over time and you hey how's you know so and so your daughter or whatever you
• 46:29
  you kind of learn about their lives a little bit and people want to do business
• 46:33
  with people they know period like so,
• 46:37
  if you have a relationship with somebody they're like 10 times
• 46:40
  as likely to go with you than some brand new person i
• 46:43
  don't care how good their sizzle reel is they know
• 46:46
  you you know and they know you're good and so they'll
• 46:49
  they're way more likely to book you because they have already in
• 46:52
  the past so but you again people just
• 46:55
  are forgetful so you've got it's on you to stay on top of those people you know
• 46:59
  send out christmas cards to all your agents you know send out birthday messages
• 47:03
  and put it in your calendar when their birthday birthdays are and so you can
• 47:06
  send them a little message that goes so far with people i mean think about how
• 47:11
  impersonal the world is now So if you've got a handwritten card for Christmas,
• 47:15
  it's like, hey, thank you for being such a great client this year. Oh, my God.
• 47:18
  You're in the top 1% of all the magicians out there. I promise you.
• 47:24
  Yeah. One thing from my little side of the world, I will send out gift cards.
• 47:29
  Like these days you can do electronic ones. So I'll send out gift cards to my
• 47:33
  agents, like the ones that are booking gigs for me.
• 47:35
  They're not personal clients for having their own events. um and then luckily
• 47:40
  I have a regular show in Brisbane so we have a ticketed show so I will.
• 47:45
  After an event I will invite that person that booked
• 47:48
  me for their birthday or their wedding to come and see the show personally
• 47:51
  yeah and so having a thing I reckon
• 47:55
  like if if you if everyone was to put on an event
• 47:58
  with the thing in mind that you're
• 48:01
  not going to make money from it but you're going to personally invite
• 48:04
  everyone who's booked you for a gig before like I reckon
• 48:06
  that would actually amp up and get you 10 gigs
• 48:09
  because now you're on top of my head and the
• 48:12
  other thing is follow your clients back on social
• 48:15
  media they're going to follow you on instagram because they've talked you follow
• 48:18
  them back so you can see the stuff going on in their lives and
• 48:21
  comment and yeah be the friends that that jason's talking
• 48:24
  about yeah i could talk about this all day
• 48:27
  this is so good and this is why you need to get the book strolling for
• 48:31
  dollars available with the qr code if you're
• 48:33
  watching a video or the links below again look how thick this
• 48:36
  is we're just like we're really just touching the service
• 48:40
  touching the surface yeah but uh
• 48:43
  okay what what's like the three things that people should know when deciding
• 48:47
  to try and make it a business doing magic they're like all right i'm going to
• 48:52
  start trying to really make something of this like what's like sort of the three
• 48:57
  important steps they should consider or i think i would say,
• 49:03
  I would say that the first one is.
• 49:07
  Pick good magic, pick something that's good for like, if, if you're,
• 49:10
  if strolling is where you're going to go, if walk around magic is where you're
• 49:13
  going to go with this pick,
• 49:15
  pick magic that is conducive to that environment because you can save yourself
• 49:19
  so much heartache by not doing your favorite trick that you love.
• 49:24
  But that guy right here is going to see everything that you do,
• 49:27
  you know, or whatever, whatever the case is, it, it, it has to be kind of bulletproof,
• 49:32
  you know, from certain standpoints that pick good magic.
• 49:38
  That's the number one thing I would do. The second thing on the,
• 49:41
  on the business side is I would, again, I touched on it before is, is organization.
• 49:46
  You, you, you have to have a system. You have to have a plan because if you
• 49:49
  just, if you just wing it, if you're, if you're out there and you're just,
• 49:53
  you know, responding to emails whenever you get them or phone calls,
• 49:56
  whenever you get them or whatever, if you're not being proactive and trying
• 49:59
  to stay and have a system in place, because you can get lost real easy.
• 50:03
  You know, everything from taxes to, you know, your business structure to all
• 50:08
  kinds of stuff. You have to be organized.
• 50:11
  Otherwise, it's going to be a tough road to hoe.
• 50:14
  So that would be the next thing. And then the last one is just always never
• 50:20
  think that you know everything. You know, I've been doing this for so long.
• 50:25
  And I think your first nail in the coffin is when you think you know everything.
• 50:32
  And i've seen so many people that they just have that attitude
• 50:35
  when they walk up to a table they're just like oh yeah i'm the best and
• 50:38
  and it's okay to be confident i'm not saying not that but
• 50:41
  just like being so confident that you're not even open to learning new things
• 50:45
  like i'll still do walk around gigs with other magicians it just a whole other
• 50:49
  branch open up opens up in my brain because i'm like i never thought about that
• 50:53
  before but they maybe it was a one line they said or one trick that they did
• 50:56
  and it was just blew my mind you have to be open to those experiences,
• 51:01
  and maybe the fourth thing would be listen to your audience get really good
• 51:04
  at at hearing them it's not all about you it's a one-way street you going towards
• 51:09
  them you you have to you have to be picking up the signs that's how you're going
• 51:12
  to learn what magic is hitting that's how you're going to learn how to manage
• 51:16
  an audience you know just a myriad of things it's by listening you know It's like they say,
• 51:21
  listen 80%, talk 20%.
• 51:24
  I don't think you can do that, quite get away with that and walk around,
• 51:26
  but try to be listening more often than talking, or at least that's how it should feel in your head.
• 51:33
  Yeah. There's a question from Tim Underwood. How many gigs per month would you
• 51:39
  say someone should aim for to comfortably go full time?
• 51:42
  And how can you make your marketing as entertaining as your show?
• 51:48
  Well, I'll start in reverse order. Your marketing should be as good as your
• 51:52
  material. I've said this forever.
• 51:57
  When you're talking about, especially online where people are just
• 52:00
  doing searches and whatever it it's almost
• 52:02
  irrelevant how good you actually are it what really
• 52:05
  matters is how good you're coming across now obviously
• 52:09
  that doesn't mean you should stink when you walk up to your you know show
• 52:12
  up to your gig but if people are booking you that's all
• 52:15
  they have to go on is that one video or those three pictures
• 52:18
  you have posted or your website or whatever it is so
• 52:21
  you could be the best in the world but if if you don't have the the marketing
• 52:24
  materials that pitches you how what you should be you're not going to work you're
• 52:29
  just not going to work so those have to be up to par whether that means you
• 52:33
  you hire people to do that for you you know like i've done video editing over
• 52:37
  the years it's not my favorite and i would rather be doing magic not sitting
• 52:40
  behind a computer editing videos so i've paid people you know to.
• 52:43
  Make them and it's it's it's worth it
• 52:46
  it's absolutely worth it what was the first part of
• 52:49
  the question again it was how many gigs should someone
• 52:52
  oh you know okay so aiming to have this is
• 52:55
  going to be a very unsatisfying answer but it depends uh
• 52:58
  because it's first of all how much are you
• 53:01
  charging per gig that that determines a lot
• 53:04
  of it so i don't have to do nearly as many gigs as i
• 53:07
  do now as when i was performing back then because i'm making
• 53:09
  so much more money per hour and then the other
• 53:12
  thing is you that it's gonna that's gonna be up to you you know there's certain
• 53:18
  places in the country that you can live that are you know you got to make literally
• 53:21
  twice as much doing magic if you want to live in you know laguna beach or whatever
• 53:24
  then if you're living in i don't know in the south or or even las vegas is you
• 53:29
  know fairly low although it's getting more expensive.
• 53:32
  It is it just depends on what your what your standard of living is and how much
• 53:36
  money you need to make every month so i would work it the other way around instead
• 53:39
  of saying how many gigs you say how much money do i need to earn this month
• 53:43
  to to live this certain lifestyle and then you just take that number divide
• 53:47
  by the number of hours and that's what you should be charging for hour, you know, let's say,
• 53:52
  but you have to listen to your market too.
• 53:54
  But that's what I would say is it really depends on what you're charging and
• 53:57
  how much you want to work and then what your market is.
• 54:00
  You know, there's a few questions here regarding the exchange of money.
• 54:03
  So some are asking like regards to pay to play websites or perhaps,
• 54:07
  you know, like, do you take deposits or do you have them pay the full amount,
• 54:12
  you know, beforehand, et cetera.
• 54:13
  What's your advice with when it comes to the exchange of money?
• 54:16
  So like agreed to do everything, contracts are good to go.
• 54:18
  You've said, I'll be here at this location, this place, this time.
• 54:23
  What's the nicest way to exchange money? do
• 54:26
  you get deposit i 100 it is not a gig until you get a deposit like if you do
• 54:33
  this long enough you start to realize that's when people really put their money
• 54:36
  literally where their mouth is is that you can say like oh we love you we want
• 54:41
  to hire you until you get a deposit it is not a gig,
• 54:45
  and i when i first started out i was doing 50 deposit and then i would do 50 day of the gig,
• 54:51
  but i honestly nowadays i get 100 up front
• 54:54
  so as soon as they book me i say it's 100 deposit and
• 54:57
  i you know i give them all my guarantees if you if you know you need
• 55:00
  to rebook within a year you can apply this towards the
• 55:03
  next gig or whatever that's that's usually what i
• 55:06
  do but i get a deposit because people will
• 55:09
  back out on you the day of if you don't if they don't have a
• 55:11
  deposit if they don't have no skin in the game then forget it
• 55:15
  yeah yeah advice i was given is even if
• 55:18
  you're doing a cash gig which we're all aware of those ones when
• 55:21
  it's like a discounted rate but you'll do it because you have nothing on
• 55:24
  tuesday whatever even that you should get a 10 deposit for because that again
• 55:29
  the amount of if if i've ever had a gig cancel it's the one that's like oh yeah
• 55:34
  i'll just give you cash and you know whatever we'll have some fun they're the
• 55:38
  ones that will flake on you yeah so great great advice get paid.
• 55:47
  How often are you working with agents is that a big part of your work or is that like a 20,
• 55:53
  percent thing you know it used to be i used
• 55:55
  to get most of my work through agencies and i'm
• 55:59
  sure it's like this in a lot of places in the country we we say
• 56:02
  the word agent or agency they're really more like talent brokers they have they
• 56:07
  have their roster of people so it's not like they're they're getting on the
• 56:10
  phone calls every day and pitching you to their corporate clients it's when
• 56:13
  they come in with a request hey we think it'd be cool to have a magician and
• 56:17
  now when you they check their your magician roster,
• 56:19
  you're, you know, ideally the first one on the list.
• 56:22
  So it used to be primarily that I've transitioned more towards getting my own
• 56:26
  clients directly just because it.
• 56:30
  It pays better. I'm a little bit more in control of the client relationship,
• 56:34
  you know, because agencies will get really freaked out if you try to give out
• 56:38
  a business card, you know, which is a big no-no.
• 56:40
  Never do that on an agent gig unless you've got an express permission to do
• 56:45
  so, but you don't hand out your own business cards.
• 56:47
  But that's why I like the private gigs too, that you book direct because you
• 56:50
  can give out your business card to anybody you want. So you can be marketing
• 56:53
  to the next kind of people.
• 56:55
  But I would say it's probably about 50-50 now. I would say it was probably 70%
• 57:00
  to 80% agents and then direct another 20%, 30%. But I would say it's probably closer to 50% to 50% now.
• 57:06
  And how do you price your events? So the reason I ask is there's a question
• 57:10
  here from Mark Brown asking that the pricing for private events versus corporate
• 57:14
  events, like is the two-hour strolling price at a house party different or the
• 57:18
  same to a two-hour Rove with the company?
• 57:21
  It is for me. I know some other magicians give a flat rate and that's what they always are.
• 57:27
  To me it feels like that's leaving money on the table to be totally honest because
• 57:32
  corporate events when they're paying their they might have a budget that's 10
• 57:36
  times what that is and if you just give them the same flat rate to me you're
• 57:41
  leaving so much money on the table so.
• 57:44
  Now the caveat you gotta be know what you're doing
• 57:47
  you know when you start talking to them you're trying to figure out
• 57:50
  what their budget is for that kind of thing and there's all kinds of little tricks i
• 57:53
  talk about it in the book of like how you can kind of get information about
• 57:55
  it but I would definitely say those are two different
• 57:59
  things so if somebody calls me and is like hey I got a
• 58:02
  couple calls yesterday they're like we're having a Halloween party we want you to
• 58:04
  like can you do like scary magic and it's a house party
• 58:07
  for like 30 people I'm you
• 58:10
  know if I'm not busy because it's like you said a Tuesday you're
• 58:14
  not working or whatever and you're like okay it's not far from
• 58:16
  my house I could just drive down there I don't have to fly anywhere you
• 58:20
  know that could be you know i usually do a two-hour minimum too you want to
• 58:26
  make it worth your time to go out there i have done gigs for one hour before
• 58:29
  but i think if somebody's willing to pay you to be there for strolling magic
• 58:33
  it's not a it's not a heavy lift to try to get them to do two hours and so.
• 58:39
  But it is a different price than that than the corporate gigs i
• 58:42
  would say like because you i mean i mean
• 58:44
  i've seen i've seen amounts of money spent on on corporate entertainment
• 58:48
  so it's a different level so i would say those are two different prices i'm
• 58:52
  curious that you put a limited like a minimum two hour period on that because
• 58:55
  i think that for me when i quote it's like how many people and if it's like
• 58:59
  oh yeah one hour will do yeah it's like yeah 70 80 plus it's like you're gonna
• 59:03
  need two hours yeah do you do you base your timing off the amount of people at an event.
• 59:09
  To a certain extent i will like for 60 people i could do i could stretch that into two hours easy,
• 59:16
  so that's why i i want to get the hours out
• 59:19
  of it so i'll be like hey you know just you know with 60 people
• 59:22
  usually by in the the number in my head is 50
• 59:25
  people per hour per magician you know
• 59:27
  so if it's if it's going more than
• 59:30
  that is i'll be like hey you should really have me for two hours if
• 59:33
  you want everybody to see some good magic and usually
• 59:36
  that's enough to be like oh yeah absolutely fine you know now sometimes
• 59:39
  they're limited by okay we only have an hour so then
• 59:42
  i'll be like well and again i'll i'll say like
• 59:45
  usually have a two hour minimum but i'll drop that but
• 59:48
  then i usually charge them i just charge them more on the first hour
• 59:51
  to make up for if it's a you know flight and hotel
• 59:54
  and all that kind of stuff you kind of have to bake that into your
• 59:56
  price a little bit but yeah that's how
• 59:59
  that's how i work it i've used that same booking strategy before
• 1:00:03
  when people want me for small house parties you say you know i don't leave the
• 1:00:06
  house for less than a two hour minimum so if you want me to do just a small
• 1:00:10
  event it's still going to be 500 bucks you know for example yeah and i think
• 1:00:14
  something that's worth giving some inspiration to our listeners because jason
• 1:00:18
  you touched on this how much people are spending on other stuff at a corporate event.
• 1:00:22
  Like when when you're sitting there going ah like i'll just throw a number out
• 1:00:27
  like you know if you're just starting out and you're like oh will they pay 400
• 1:00:30
  for me to do magic there like i feel like I'm asking a lot of myself,
• 1:00:33
  you have to understand if they have 200 people at their event,
• 1:00:37
  they're paying like $40,000 on just like the room hire and just food.
• 1:00:43
  And that's with like nothing happening yet.
• 1:00:45
  There are agencies that won't even rep you until you're charging a minimum of
• 1:00:50
  $5,000 above and $5,000 is low for them. Like I can't tell you the amount of.
• 1:00:57
  Clients that have hit me up like we had this event their budget is
• 1:01:00
  like seven thousand dollars like can that work with
• 1:01:03
  you and like yeah it can work um
• 1:01:07
  they just want they want 20 minutes on stage
• 1:01:10
  but they're also asking would you mind doing the the
• 1:01:13
  arrival cocktail closer magic i'm like yeah i'm
• 1:01:16
  i could make that work and so like
• 1:01:19
  the amount of money out there in the corporate entertainment for
• 1:01:22
  strolling magic is just it is obscene in
• 1:01:25
  how much they will spend on they what they
• 1:01:28
  want they don't want it's not that they want magic it's that
• 1:01:31
  they want the effects of what magic will do so
• 1:01:35
  what they're paying for is this mass enjoyment and wonder and fun yeah and the
• 1:01:40
  memories that are going to be created from your event and you just happen to
• 1:01:43
  be able to do that right so it's the same with stage magic they're not a corporate
• 1:01:47
  event is not booking a magician because they want magic they want to book whatever
• 1:01:51
  is going to give an awesome time.
• 1:01:54
  At their event and have people go that was such a great
• 1:01:57
  award tonight thank you so much or you know whatever absolutely
• 1:02:01
  like if you were dope with a yo-yo that yo-yo guy because
• 1:02:05
  the yo-yo is like oh man the yo-yo guy was sick we had the
• 1:02:07
  best time ever yeah and you know like absolutely
• 1:02:10
  magic seems to be the best medium for that now
• 1:02:13
  yeah here's the amazing thing we've just
• 1:02:16
  clicked over an hour and the chat is still just lit
• 1:02:19
  with questions good it's so many yeah all right let's let's do a lightning round
• 1:02:25
  what you read off some of them yeah let's all right i'll give them i've got
• 1:02:29
  one from up we skipped alex lamb he talked about booking gigs with like gig
• 1:02:33
  salad and some of the other you know online kind of booking agencies what are
• 1:02:38
  your thoughts about that.
• 1:02:40
  I think they can work. I think they need to be part of your strategy when you,
• 1:02:43
  especially if you're just starting out, you know, what you don't have time for
• 1:02:47
  is your, your natural SEO on your website to, you know, take off.
• 1:02:50
  Cause that can take a year or longer to even start seeing the results of it.
• 1:02:54
  Even when you know really what you're doing and then, you know,
• 1:02:57
  ads are expensive. You run Google ads or Facebook ads or whatever.
• 1:03:00
  So it's almost like a shortcut.
• 1:03:02
  These kind of the gig sites, because they have really good SEO.
• 1:03:06
  They're already seasoned on Google. They show up in search results.
• 1:03:09
  And if you can, if you have a spot on their site, now that's kind of a link,
• 1:03:14
  you know, a backdoor link that can get people just a cold search to your website.
• 1:03:18
  I think it is worth it. Now, they're not all worth it in the same way.
• 1:03:22
  Do your homework because some of them are terrible and some of them are decent.
• 1:03:26
  So do your homework. Find out what those are. But they have their place for sure.
• 1:03:31
  Business cards. Are you giving them out in every interaction or just when people ask?
• 1:03:37
  I typically I would say I've done it both ways
• 1:03:40
  I I've I've moved more towards everybody's going
• 1:03:43
  to get a business card whether you want it or not because you never know
• 1:03:46
  even if they don't seem into it or whatever and they see
• 1:03:49
  that card later and it evokes that memory of like oh my god yeah
• 1:03:52
  that card ended up in his wallet like how did that you know and you
• 1:03:55
  never know what where people are at at the point so
• 1:03:58
  even if you get that one more touch you know by them finding
• 1:04:01
  the card later and they'll be like oh and you know
• 1:04:04
  because a lot of times people don't know that that this
• 1:04:07
  is the thing that you can hire magicians to come work at an event you know
• 1:04:10
  so sometimes a lot of times your business card is almost like hey this i do
• 1:04:13
  this for a living call me and you know if you've got an event coming up we can
• 1:04:16
  do it again and people like it's a light bulb that goes off for them they just
• 1:04:20
  don't even know that you can hire a magician to come up for a party you know
• 1:04:22
  so sometimes again you have to educate your audience with that kind of stuff
• 1:04:25
  so yeah so good and then And all right, let's close off with this one.
• 1:04:30
  What importance, social media is a big thing in magicians' minds.
• 1:04:34
  Like I have to be viral online to become a successful magician,
• 1:04:37
  or I have to put out whatever.
• 1:04:40
  Everyone has their own reasons for doing it. But in terms of making a full-time
• 1:04:43
  living from strolling magic, is social media actually important to be able to do that?
• 1:04:49
  Or is it just an offset thing?
• 1:04:52
  Like, is it related to doing full-time magic?
• 1:04:57
  It's related. I would say that
• 1:04:59
  the amount of revenue that comes in from social media is roughly that.
• 1:05:06
  Yes. Everyone listening gets zero dollars.
• 1:05:09
  Zero dollars yeah unless you're monetized on
• 1:05:12
  the video if you've got a kicking youtube channel or whatever and
• 1:05:15
  you're making that kind of you know that's a different business model
• 1:05:18
  if you're talking about like finding gigs finding clients
• 1:05:21
  that will actually hire you now that
• 1:05:24
  being said you do want to have some kind of presence
• 1:05:27
  because what they are going to do is they are going to check your social media so
• 1:05:30
  you know if you've got 50 instagram people on
• 1:05:32
  your you know you're like oh this guy's supposed to be really good but you
• 1:05:36
  would you know so they'll look at the vanity even just the vanity
• 1:05:39
  metrics and kind of make a decision like oh oh this
• 1:05:41
  guy is legit he's got you know whatever followers on facebook or
• 1:05:44
  an instagram so i'm not going to say it's not important but definitely put your
• 1:05:50
  focus somewhere else like take take the time that you're making all those instagram
• 1:05:55
  videos and put them into coming up with a walk around set because you can make
• 1:05:59
  money with that you're you're just not going to make money on social media so,
• 1:06:03
  Yeah, it's built off relationships and getting rebooked from people seeing you
• 1:06:07
  giving out more business cards than people want.
• 1:06:10
  Because you're right. You're not getting emails going, oh, I watched your video
• 1:06:14
  on Instagram and I want to fly you to Dubai for our party.
• 1:06:19
  If you have the 10,000 followers, when you ask for the $10,000 paycheck,
• 1:06:25
  you are going to get paid. Exactly.
• 1:06:28
  They're going to verify it. Yeah. So it's just a trade off. But I know people
• 1:06:33
  that obsess over their social media and they're just, they get nothing directly
• 1:06:38
  from it. Again, it has its place.
• 1:06:40
  You can't just not pay attention to it. No, if you're looking to do magic professionally,
• 1:06:44
  if you're looking to work professionally as a magician, social media is not recommended. No.
• 1:06:49
  Like some of the best magicians that I look up to have almost no social media. Like it's a weird thing.
• 1:06:55
  Yes, we think if we're famous online, we can charge more, do big events.
• 1:06:58
  And you can. But then the people that are doing all the really cool private
• 1:07:02
  jet to here and like Doug McKenzie is a great example, posts literally nothing
• 1:07:07
  on his Instagram. He's forever traveling everywhere.
• 1:07:09
  Daniel Garcia posts nothing on his socials. We all know him.
• 1:07:13
  He's traveling everywhere for gigs.
• 1:07:15
  Like the list goes on. And so it's so weird that like the complete opposites
• 1:07:19
  can both lead to a lot of work.
• 1:07:22
  But the key thing, every time Jason has answered a question here,
• 1:07:26
  he's always prefaced it with first do really good magic. And then this is what you do.
• 1:07:33
  So if you don't have good magic, it can only get you so far.
• 1:07:37
  So make that the first super important thing and then you do the rest. And again.
• 1:07:45
  It's all in here, guys. So look, we're going to end our episode.
• 1:07:49
  And first of all, thank you for coming on this show. We'll have you back anytime
• 1:07:52
  because this really is the life force of what we try to do in this podcast is
• 1:07:58
  to motivate our fellow magicians who are driving to gigs right now,
• 1:08:02
  listening to this and amp them up and give them ideas on how to improve what they're doing.
• 1:08:06
  So again, go buy his book. It is, you can claim it on tax. It's part of your business, you know?
• 1:08:12
  But we're going to end our episode the way we always do, which is by giving
• 1:08:16
  our guest the final word.
• 1:08:21
  Okay. My final word is, you know, we've talked about doing good magic.
• 1:08:27
  The book talks about what to wear, how to talk to people, you know, scripts and whatever.
• 1:08:32
  But the thing I want to leave you with is that if you are thinking about either
• 1:08:37
  charging money for your gigs,
• 1:08:39
  charging more money for your gigs, and then the upper level is going professional,
• 1:08:43
  only making money from your gigs keep in
• 1:08:46
  mind you probably if you're watching this right now
• 1:08:48
  you have enough magic right now you don't
• 1:08:52
  need to buy a bunch of more stuff you probably have what
• 1:08:55
  you need already to be to have a successful career it's
• 1:08:58
  about taking the magic you have making it better and
• 1:09:01
  then using the business side of things to actually book gigs so
• 1:09:05
  don't be intimidated you got to start somewhere and
• 1:09:08
  motion creates emotion like you
• 1:09:11
  got to you got to get moving and it will create the opportunity it's amazing
• 1:09:15
  what'll line up as soon as you put your foot in and start walking the path thanks
• 1:09:22
  for listening it's time for us to disappear now disappear now but we'll see
• 1:09:27
  you again on the next episode of the magic guys.