Latest / The Curve / RTC85: How Vic made $800,000 in 6 years!

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RTC85: How Vic made $800,000 in 6 years! · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raising the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
0:05
to be better with your money.
0:07
And the wise words of Amy Schumer were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
0:12
I don't really get the saying.
0:14
It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
0:17
You know, I'm like, still not wearing it.
0:19
Are you on the script?
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It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't
0:26
need to be.
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OK, OK, so we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
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OK, the vegetables are just good for you.
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It's the brownie recipe.
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OK, we got there, we got there.
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OK, OK, well, you've really got a finance mate.
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Yeah, one of us has to.
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This is a joke.
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OK, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager, where I'm going to ask
0:46
all the questions that you wish you could.
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And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
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It's so not the joke, Vick.
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OK, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us.
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Because together, we really can raise the curve.
1:01
Hello, and welcome.
1:02
Hello.
1:03
We are doing something a bit different in today's episode.
1:06
We've really been dabbling in different stuff lately, haven't we?
1:10
We're talking about me.
1:11
Yeah.
1:12
Well, we're going to be talking about Vick's home buyer journey today,
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because we've got our home buyer's handbook coming out on Wednesday.
1:19
Well, it's the first, it's basically starts on the first of November.
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And we're like, it'll be quite fun to hear about your journey.
1:25
How much you've made in property, and just how you feel about the property market in general,
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because we've talked about stocks in depth for a long time,
1:32
but we haven't done that with the property market, so.
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Yeah, so here we go.
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It's quite interesting, because I remember our first ever event we did.
1:42
Quite a few of the questions, well, all should I invest in stocks
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or should I invest in property?
1:46
Yeah.
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And it was this really weird thing.
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I was like, well, obviously you can invest in both,
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but most people know how to invest in property,
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and most people don't know how to invest in stocks.
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And I think particularly in New Zealand,
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because home ownership in New Zealand is so high,
2:00
it's kind of the dream is to eventually own your own house.
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And so I think that's very much instilled in us,
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is you say enough for a deposit for a house.
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Whereas stocks, I think the kind of scene is more scary.
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Yeah, and I guess it's not talked about often.
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I always thought home ownership was a massive thing,
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mainly in New Zealand, but actually being here,
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everyone's like, oh, home ownership's a real big thing in the UK,
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and I'm like, yeah.
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Is it just a big thing everywhere?
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I think it, well, yeah, for me, it was almost a sign of,
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like, I've adultered or I have achieved something,
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which sounds so stupid, but I don't know,
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it was almost the tick of approval for myself in a weird way.
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It's like that whole classic,
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especially in New Zealand, or when you get to around 30.
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Yeah.
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You put the white picket fence up,
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you buy a house, you get a dog, have some kids.
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Like, it is the prescribed what we call success, right?
2:55
And I don't mean that, obviously,
2:58
what you think is success will be very different
3:01
to your next neighbour or your best friend,
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but there is this inherent belief
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that buying a house equals your successful.
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Totally, I know, and it's so warped and weird.
3:12
And I remember an ex-boyfriend of mine
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and I was going through the process of buying my own house.
3:17
And I said to him, I was like,
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when do you want to buy a house?
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Why haven't you yet?
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Like, he was a few as older than me,
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just so presumptuous that that's what he wanted.
3:26
Anyway, and he was like,
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well, I've invested money in other things,
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that business isn't stuff.
3:30
And it was kind of this light bulb moment for me,
3:31
I was kind of thinking, well, yeah,
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why have I always thought of,
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this is my gravy train in terms of,
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I want to own a house,
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when there's so many other ways to make money,
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but especially you, kind of for my investing background?
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I know, because I just kind of been drilled into me
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that, well, I don't know, yeah.
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Yeah, I think you're eye to be honest,
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so our home by his handbook course,
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at one of the first few lessons is like,
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think about why you're buying your house.
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And it was really interesting,
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because when I was reading that, I thought,
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I wonder if that brought it
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because of that ticket success, or because...
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Well, for me, it was more of a lifestyle choice.
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I had moved back from Australia
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and had a failed attempt at getting to the US.
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Oh, really? What happened?
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Oh, no, that's a whole podcast, super sorry.
4:16
That's a mini series, that is,
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because they got to board it from the States.
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Oh, okay, no.
4:21
No, oh my god.
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Anyway, yes, so I came back from the US,
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my brief hour, at least five hours trip to the US.
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And I was like, look, okay,
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I need to reassess my life,
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because that was my five-year plan,
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was to go to the States.
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Yeah, I remember I went straight to a friend's beach house,
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oh, a lake house.
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She was like, just come here,
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let my best friend bless her heart.
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She was like, come straight to like Rodoidi,
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which was just kind of in the middle of the North Island,
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New Zealand.
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And I remember sitting there and just having this moment
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of like, what the fuck?
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Hmm, why am I here?
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I should be in New York.
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Anyway, so I, okay, we knew you bought your house.
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Yeah, so I came back and I was like, right, okay,
5:00
I need another plan.
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And my plan was like, right, okay,
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and I got a job covering global equities,
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so global companies in New Zealand.
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I was like, hey, that's the next best alternative.
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I was like, cool.
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Now that I know that, where am I going to live?
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Am I going to take out?
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I rent all because at the time I was living my parents.
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Oh, shit.
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Yeah.
5:19
No one do you are actually having a total amount of?
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And please, please, your parents, you know,
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like they picked me up from the airport.
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How old are you 30 at this point?
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No, I was like 26.
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No.
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28, 28, because I've had my house for six and a half years.
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Yeah, 28.
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So yeah, my parents like picked me up off the floor
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pretty much at the awkwardly airport.
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And I was like, and just their faces, they're like,
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oh, yeah, and I was like, oh god.
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So I was living my parents and I was like, okay, I need a house,
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either a rental or my own home.
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And I had had a bit of safe money saved up
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and I thought, if I'm going to be here for the next few years,
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may as well be paying my own mortgage in someone else's.
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So I started looking for a house
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and got one pretty quickly.
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I remember going to open homes with my dad,
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bless his heart.
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We always go into open homes and he starts knocking on the walls,
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you know, I'm not checking the structures.
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Go on, it's so embarrassing.
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That's selling my dad.
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And I'm like, oh my god, cute, look at this bath.
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He's like, nope, you'd rip out the bath,
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make this a big room, get more value for it.
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I'm like, oh, no, but it's a beautiful bathtub.
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Yeah, anyway, we're looking at a house
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actually three doors down from mine currently.
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And it was a complete do-up, like, unlivable at their time.
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And I was like, fun, I can do DIY.
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And then we were like, oh, hey, there's an open home
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three doors down.
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So I ran along and the guy was, the agent was closing the doors,
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like the open home was finishing.
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I was like, hey, sorry, I was like, can I just have a look?
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And he was like, yes, if you hurry.
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And I was like, so like, did a little speed look.
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And I was like, oh, I quite like this one.
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It was exactly the same house pretty much,
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but renovated years ago, but still was livable.
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And because I wasn't working at the time,
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I could do things really quickly
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in terms of the process of buying the house.
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I can't even imagine how quickly this would have happened.
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Just knowing how you work as a person,
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she's the most efficient person ever.
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So usually the process would be like,
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I'm surprised you turned up with all your finishes.
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I know, you know.
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And so there's a three to six normally.
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Well, usually you'd go view a property,
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then you'd put in an offer,
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and then there'd be back and forth in terms of negotiations.
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Then you'd have a settlement,
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which is usually like three months,
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which gives you time to get your ducks in a row.
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And that whole process for me took four weeks
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with an Easter holiday in between.
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So like four days of public holidays,
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where bankers, lawyers, you know, I'm works.
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So I was like, oh, shit, it's pretty quick turnaround.
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Did you walk into the house and think,
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this is it, or were you kind of like looking to your dad
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to be like, what do you think for Zian?
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It's very nice having a second opinion,
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but my father and I have very different tastes
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and views on property in particular.
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I don't know, I was paying for it,
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so I was kind of like, okay.
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What you thought was more important.
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So we went to the open home,
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and I think a week later or a few days later was the auction.
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Now I'm not gonna, this is not advice.
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Please don't do this.
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But I didn't get a building report.
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I know, I know.
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Isn't that like the number one?
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I know, I know.
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Isn't a building report kind of like
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when you go by a car, you get a mechanic's check
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that it's not good?
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Yes, yeah.
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Yeah, so.
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I, that's so shocking for you.
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Well, dad's kind of dad knows this stuff.
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I think I was so lucky it wasn't like
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I was from the inside.
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I know, yeah.
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The auction was a few days later.
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And I was like, let's just go along, see what happens.
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And.
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Were you nervous and what did you wear?
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Well, I didn't think I would buy it.
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Because whole energy is so weird and off for you.
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Like, I just can't even imagine you being this cheerful guy.
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I think I was still a bit like,
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shocks, shocks, yeah.
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We went along and there was literally only one other person
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bidding.
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And I think because it was on site,
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so it was at the house on a Tuesday lunchtime.
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So a lot of people probably couldn't attend.
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And there was only one other person
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and they dropped out pretty quickly.
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So the auctioneer starts reddling off numbers
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and they tapped out pretty quickly.
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So it was just me and the seller.
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So the auctioneer works on behalf of the seller.
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So they've got a price, say their reserve price,
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the price that they will sell is a million dollars.
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And say you're bidding and you're like 700,000, 800,000.
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And then as soon as you put the padlock,
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well, yeah, there wasn't paddles, but there was your hand.
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And then the real estate agent comes up to you
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and say, hey, look, they're still pretty far off.
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The reserve price, can you go any higher?
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And I'm like, yep, yep, yep.
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My dad's like, Victoria, shut up.
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I'm like, come on, come on.
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But so this is why it's really important.
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So sorry, take a step back before that.
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I had got pre-approval from the bank.
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Sorry, because you can't go into an auction.
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Well, you could, but it's bloody risky.
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Did you hear the voice message we got today on Instagram?
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No.
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Should I play it?
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It's actually quite interesting.
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Our experience when we bought our first time,
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which was about three, four times ago,
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we were having a real hard time getting pre-approval
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for anything, because we just came back from traveling.
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And we were saying to the bank, so that we saved $30,000
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to go traveling.
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We can save that.
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And we had a small deposit for my mom and Guaranteeurs
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and all that, but the bank was saying, well, no,
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you're just proved to us that you can spend $30,000
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not that you can save it.
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So we were talking to my father-in-law, who was just like,
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do you know what, the best advice is to just beg
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for forgiveness and serve us in permission.
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Just put it on offer on a housing insider contract.
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And so the next house that we went through had a home
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with crunched down numbers.
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We were pretty confident.
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And so we just put an offer on, like an unconditional offer.
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And it got approved and said, then we just handed it
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to the bank and said, hey, we need someone to give us
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a mortgage, who wants to.
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And all of a sudden, the bank's like, oh, shit,
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well, I want this business.
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So it was so easy and quick to get a mortgage
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approved that way.
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That's so risky.
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I was like, is she being?
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She must be being serious.
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Yeah.
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But what if the bank's said, no, no, no, no,
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then you've got to fork out a full, whatever,
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million dollars for a house.
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Surely there's ways to get out of it if someone...
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You have to pay a fee, which could be sometimes half
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the deposit, like it can be huge,
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because these are contracts that you sign into.
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So...
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Wow, that's so risky.
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So, yeah, so it's taking a step back.
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I had got approval from the bank for a set amount.
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And I think the house was 1.5 million.
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And but I remember we were getting close to that amount.
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And you start thinking, oh, I can sell my comma.
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And I can, you know, you just start going,
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when you're getting close or you've been given an amount
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that it's like saying, hey, here's an amount and you can spend.
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Here's $100 and you're like, oh, well,
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I've got $20 in the couch.
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And you're scrounging around so you can afford
11:43
something more expensive.
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And so, but it's also a game,
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because if we were the only ones there,
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they need us as much as we need them.
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So it's like this weird psychological, like, no,
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I'm not going any higher.
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And I was like, I was like, but I can, but I don't want to.
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You know, it's like this weird cock off.
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So where did you land?
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Where did you land?
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The property didn't reach reserve.
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So it was a no deal.
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So it was kind of like cool.
12:04
Thanks guys.
12:05
See you later.
12:06
So did you put your foot down and just be like,
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did you, in your head, where you like, I could go
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but hi, but I'm not going to.
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Or had you reach capacity and it was scaring me.
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You were selling everything.
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I was, yeah, right, not going to have any coffees
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or not going to be able to eat.
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No, and then we went into exclusive negotiations
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with the seller, because we were the highest,
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I say we, I'm like, you and dad.
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So it's like moral support.
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I think this is where your parents come in handy.
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Well, for me, it was, I instantly felt like a little girl again.
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You know, I was like, well, what happens now?
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And I negotiated, I was like, I don't know how to negotiate.
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You know, and they're like, definitely don't put
12:41
everything on the table.
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And you know, I'm like, but why not?
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Then it's done.
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You know, so it's like the psychological, yeah, I understand
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the feeling though, especially if you are making
12:52
the biggest purchase of your whole life.
12:53
Yeah.
12:54
You want someone there that's done it before or that knows
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it's a bit more clued up.
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It's like going to buy a car.
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I wouldn't go do it without a second to put it in.
13:01
Totally.
13:01
I just wouldn't, because I don't trust myself.
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I'm going to buy one of my cars.
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Like every car I've had, dad has almost vetoed.
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I love it.
13:10
And it's just like, all the major stages of your life,
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your dad is like, we've got two girls.
13:15
We're always like, I feel like even in my 50s,
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I'm going to be like, dad.
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Yeah.
13:20
But every car I've purchased, he's looked at and he's like,
13:22
oh, no, this is a shoddy one.
13:24
You know, if it's cheap, it's cheap for a reason.
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Yeah.
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Or that kind of stuff.
13:28
Yeah.
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It's such a good impression.
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And then once I bought a car without his say or without his input and poor Ian, I've never
13:35
seen him so devastated.
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It was like this.
13:37
You didn't join me anymore.
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You didn't join me anymore.
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I should have just, even if I didn't need him, like, I don't appear it's like to be
13:42
needed.
13:43
But I think also, I'm not saying buying a house with someone else like a partner is a
13:48
good idea or like a necessity.
13:51
But I think there is that bouncing it off each other, kind of having that moral support,
13:55
you know, having a friend, someone in your corner, probably does help, whereas I didn't
13:59
have that.
14:00
So my parents were that kind of support, I guess.
14:01
Do you think that I'm just thinking about myself right now, looking at what I didn't
14:06
realise was enough to consider buying property, very exciting.
14:10
But then I've been thinking, well, what if I teamed up with my sister and we put our deposit
14:14
together and we did it together?
14:15
Yeah.
14:16
Is that a good idea or do you think buying a lot with someone else is kind of dodgy?
14:20
A lot of people do that.
14:22
I think it's fine.
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Just make sure you've got contracts in place that are like, okay, if you put in 30 and
14:26
I put in 70, when we sell, I get 30, you get 70 or something like that.
14:30
You know, it's very black and white and the lawyers will be able to help you with that.
14:34
I think the thing I was more wondering is, is it a bad idea in terms of being on different,
14:39
in different stages, like, say she was to turn around and be like, I want to sell it.
14:42
And I'm like, I don't.
14:44
Well, then she could sell her share to someone else or you could just sell it and then you
14:49
can buy something else.
14:50
Yeah.
14:51
I've recently been in the hair.
14:52
Well, you might be able to take it on yourself, you know, you never know what that looks
14:57
like in three, four, five years time.
14:59
But it's kind of clever, don't you think, because then you can get a better house.
15:02
Totally.
15:03
Yeah.
15:04
People do it with friends.
15:05
Because lose my sister's single and definitely has a deposit.
15:08
So we could do it together.
15:09
Yeah.
15:10
I've had friends that have done it with literally, so you do 90% and I'll do 10 because
15:14
that's what I've got.
15:15
I think it's great.
15:16
You both get the benefit.
15:18
Just make sure you have the contracts in place.
15:20
I'm writing everything, writing, I who pays the mortgage, is the mortgage split equally
15:24
or percentage wise of what you put into the deposit, like, well, they're kind of stuff.
15:28
So you had got to the stage where you were basically negotiating with the seller, just
15:33
you and the seller.
15:34
Yeah.
15:35
So it was funny.
15:36
We were in different bedrooms of the house.
15:37
No way.
15:38
So this is after the auction, we were sitting there and we were going into negotiations.
15:42
And this is so formal.
15:44
I know.
15:45
It's quite weird.
15:46
And I knew there were like in another bedroom and the agent was going between us.
15:50
So we weren't seeing each other.
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I didn't even know who they were, what they looked like, anything.
15:53
It was quite like very, very big brother kind of weirdness.
15:56
Then we went back and forth for ages and we still couldn't come up, we couldn't come
16:01
to a price.
16:02
So then we were like, let's call it a day, we went back home and then I think it was a
16:06
few days later, they were like, we'd still like, oh, sorry, that's why they went back
16:09
out to everyone and were like, hey, is anyone else keen?
16:12
You know, that pretty much put it back on the market, no one was keen, so they came
16:15
back to me and they were like, look, so that kind of put me in a good position because
16:18
I was like, now I've got the upper hand.
16:20
Anyway, we kind of, we came to a decision, we came to a price and I got the house and
16:24
then four weeks later I moved in.
16:26
Wow.
16:27
Yeah.
16:28
When you decided, okay, we can't come to an agreement, was it hard to walk away from that?
16:34
Like, did you feel like, oh, damn, I really did actually want this or did it feel good
16:38
to say no because you couldn't afford it?
16:40
I think because I was kind of exhausted from the process.
16:42
I was like, oh, we were like, this close, you know, and it didn't happen.
16:46
It's, it was annoying.
16:48
I'd actually put an offer in another house, like maybe like a few weeks before and that
16:53
fell through and I was really gutted with that.
16:55
But then that was like a bit further out in like a different suburb and now I can't
16:59
even imagine living in that house.
17:01
You know, like, everything happens for a reason and it's like, if you miss out on one
17:03
property, there's always going to be another.
17:05
So I was a bit more, oh, well, you know what, there'll be another one.
17:09
I think the process of actually all the paperwork and everything, oh my goodness.
17:15
That's why I've avoided it.
17:16
I was like, what is this?
17:17
What is this?
17:18
What is this?
17:19
Who do I talk to?
17:19
What do I, honestly, there was a point I was just like, I can't deal with this.
17:25
And then I was like, well, who gets that much, honestly?
17:27
I have never felt so like young, unknowledgeable, clueless, don't know who to talk to.
17:36
Is this the lawyer's job?
17:37
Is it a bank's job?
17:39
When do they talk to each other?
17:41
When do I have to get insurance?
17:43
Like, honestly, it was such a steep learning curve, excuse the pun, but they'd be asking
17:48
for certain documents.
17:49
I was like, what is that?
17:51
I don't know what that is.
17:52
And then I'd ask the lawyer and they'd be like, no, no, you get that from this person.
17:56
I don't know.
17:57
It's quite weird that there hasn't been, you know, it's weird that there isn't already
18:01
a step by step.
18:02
This is how you buy your first home.
18:04
This is what you need.
18:05
This is who you talk to.
18:06
These are the things to look for.
18:07
It kind of baffles me that people have gone through this process without.
18:11
Yeah.
18:12
And then people would be like, well, I need this document today.
18:14
The lawyer's like, well, I need three days and all the timings.
18:17
The timings was, at least as hard I had the best lawyer.
18:20
And he was, he was like, I can drive these documents to you.
18:24
It's so cute.
18:25
The thought of the pack you just did.
18:28
Lawyers have done this multiple times.
18:30
They know and they know that you're feeling overwhelmed.
18:32
But even KiwiSaver, I didn't know that my KiwiSaver didn't come to me.
18:36
I didn't know that it went straight to the lawyer.
18:38
Yeah.
18:39
Things like that, I was applying to get my KiwiSaver withdrawal.
18:42
And they were like, oh no, it goes straight to your lawyer.
18:44
And then I was like, I don't know, we need time to do that.
18:47
And that, you know, it doesn't happen straight away.
18:49
Yeah.
18:50
And then I was like, but why doesn't it go to the bank?
18:51
Because the bank's going to, you know, it's just all these things.
18:53
And then I said, oh no, it goes to the seller because the bank doesn't get it.
18:56
Just like the wish, wish, wash of money, honestly.
18:58
So my deposit was made up of my, I had an investment in a private company that did really well.
19:04
So I had shares.
19:05
Yeah.
19:05
And so that, I had to sell those, turn them in bad into cash, then get my KiwiSaver.
19:10
Just like the timings of all the money as well.
19:12
Just so cool you invested in a private company, like an angel investment kind of.
19:15
Yeah, I got shares as part of my remuneration.
19:19
My first job I got given shares as part of my package and didn't really think anything of it.
19:26
Because a lot of people get off of that as remuneration, don't think it's like, they don't
19:30
really know, is this a good thing?
19:32
Does this mean that I'm earning more?
19:34
And it could have gone backwards.
19:36
I mean, the hardest thing with private companies or like your workplace, if it's not a public company,
19:41
it's kind of hard to, well, you can ask for financials and stuff, but it is kind of hard to know.
19:46
So I've had two situations in one job that she did really, really well and another job they didn't.
19:51
So I've kind of had both situations and I think I was a bit naive in the second one
19:55
because I was like, oh, these first ones did really well.
19:56
So of course, I'll take shares.
19:58
And so I don't, it's just like investing, there's going to be ups and downs.
20:02
Sometimes things do well, sometimes they don't.
20:03
But the great thing about when you're working at a company, you can see if it's doing well or not.
20:07
You can see if they're laying off staff if, you know, getting new customers has been a struggle
20:12
or they've been really hit hard by a recession or something.
20:15
You can see that.
20:17
Usually at that point, it's probably a bit too late because you've got to see other staff
20:21
want to sell the issues.
20:23
But because like, I was in an event the other night and this amazing woman was talking about this
20:29
finance tech company.
20:30
She's built and she's not been sitting and she's the middle man between private companies who
20:35
offer shares to their employees as benefits if they want to sell them because they're not public.
20:40
It's like, well, harder than sell them.
20:42
And it was really interesting and I was sort of stoked that I knew what she was talking about.
20:46
And she was explaining it.
20:46
I was like, wait, so you want it made me think of your deposit and how you,
20:50
because I've never been in a situation where works offered me shares.
20:53
But so many of my friends, even some of the work at Google had, when they left,
20:58
they had like $80,000 that they didn't even realize had gone to that huge amount.
21:04
The key thing to realize is though that you need to be able to live off your actual
21:08
remuneration. So the money that you're being paid because your salary, yeah.
21:11
Because even though they might, HR might be like, cool, this is your 100K
21:16
compensation and you're getting paid 20,000 and we're going to give you 80,000 in shares.
21:22
That's not like a guaranteed amount.
21:24
So you need to be able to live off body, but the dollar amount is the
21:27
actually getting paid. It's almost like it's like a little bonus.
21:29
Yeah.
21:30
As I said, it's almost like someone's like, well, pay for your rubers and your
21:33
phone and all these other random things. It's a bonus.
21:36
But like, did you have to choose an amount?
21:38
Or did they say this is part of your remuneration?
21:40
Do you remember how it worked?
21:41
Or are you not allowed to say?
21:42
Gosh, I can't really think of the exact dollar amount.
21:44
But it was like $40,000.
21:45
Wait, so I started straight out of university.
21:47
I had no savings, no money.
21:48
And 40,000 I was like, oh, thank you, but I thank you.
21:51
I can't afford it.
21:52
So you basically got the option to buy in kind of?
21:54
Yes.
21:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:56
They gave us an interest free loan for a year or two years or something.
22:00
That then converted into shares?
22:02
That's amazing.
22:02
The thing is, so if the shares didn't do well, you swore to pay the full loan amount.
22:05
So say that $40,000 of shares was actually worth 20 in two years.
22:09
You had to pay that.
22:09
You swore to pay 40.
22:10
So you kind of took the gamble.
22:12
But I think that two years, I remember it being really like a low risk option.
22:17
Or we could, at that point, we could be like, no, no, we don't want the shares anymore.
22:20
Something like that.
22:21
Like it was literally a no brainer.
22:23
Did you say yes immediately?
22:25
Because I might be remembering wrong, but I feel like I remember you telling the story
22:30
and you almost didn't say yes or something.
22:31
No, I remember being like 40,000.
22:34
I can't afford that.
22:35
Like there's no way that's such a large amount of money.
22:37
I can't afford that.
22:39
So I declined the offer.
22:40
And I was the only staff member.
22:44
People are going to be like, don't you work in finance?
22:46
I just remember being quite overwhelmed from the documents.
22:48
And I was like, oh my gosh, I can't.
22:50
And my boss sat me down.
22:52
He's like, Vick, do you realize, like, is there parts of this agreement you don't understand?
22:57
I was like, no, no, no.
22:59
So cute that he sat you down.
23:01
I know.
23:02
And he was like, you're literally signing like an option to purchase shares
23:08
two years in the future or something.
23:09
But you can also opt out into years.
23:12
You're just signing to have the option.
23:14
You're not putting any money down, nothing.
23:15
And I was like, oh, okay, cool.
23:18
Thank goodness.
23:20
I'm like, for everyone to get to my boss for that,
23:22
because that $40,000 literally turned into $400,000.
23:27
Yeah.
23:28
Like it's insane.
23:29
That is such a cool story.
23:31
So when you say head to pay $40,000 in two years or a year,
23:34
coming up with the exact time,
23:35
but those shares were worth, I think,
23:37
$100,000 at that point.
23:38
So that is such a cool story.
23:41
Yeah, so that ended up being quite a massive part of your deposit.
23:44
I'm assuming that was pretty much all of it, most of it.
23:47
So yeah, so cool.
23:49
And so you bought this house in 2016.
23:52
Did you put that much down?
23:54
Like, yes.
23:55
Yeah, yeah.
23:55
So I had to put pretty much all of my savings.
23:57
So the thing was I hadn't started my job yet.
23:59
So the bank was like, well,
24:01
you're actually not technically employed.
24:03
So we can't actually give you a loan.
24:05
Oh, so that's just quite archaic.
24:08
Like, you're like, oh, the computer sees no.
24:11
You know, it's like, I'm an individual.
24:14
Everyone's different.
24:15
Can you just like work with me here?
24:17
You can see how much I've earned over the years.
24:20
You can just kind of be annoying.
24:22
It was just like, oh, well,
24:24
and I had a six-month probation period with this new job.
24:27
And they were like, well, come back to us in six months.
24:29
Oh, go away.
24:30
Anyway, they eventually came round to it.
24:32
I think I was just a bit late.
24:33
I can.
24:34
Yeah.
24:35
So the house was 1.5 million.
24:37
How much of that did you put down as a deposit?
24:39
I think it was about 500.
24:41
Yeah.
24:42
Wow.
24:42
That's so effort that you managed to put such a massive amount down.
24:46
Yeah.
24:46
Does that then mean that your repayments from that point
24:50
weren't as massive as if you'd put $100,000 down?
24:53
Yeah.
24:54
Yeah.
24:54
So as the more you can put down as a deposit,
24:56
the less your repayments are.
24:58
But then there's that tradeoff of
24:59
what can you afford as repayments?
25:01
You know, because you do need to leave a little bit of money
25:04
when you move in to pay for things like new furniture.
25:08
If you wanted to paint the walls or remove a door
25:12
or, you know, you've got rates that you need to pay,
25:14
which I got stung with, I was like,
25:16
what was this?
25:18
Was this rates?
25:18
You've got insurance.
25:19
You've got all these little things.
25:20
So it's really good.
25:21
And this is kind of advice I give friends.
25:23
Make sure you do leave a little bit of money.
25:25
You also don't want to move into a house
25:27
and be absolutely at your limit
25:29
that you have to eat pizza off the floor.
25:30
Do you know what I mean?
25:31
You kind of want to be like,
25:32
this is my home.
25:33
It's make it a home, that kind of thing.
25:35
But I do remember when we got the keys
25:37
and I remember when I went and sat on the living room floor
25:40
and I was kind of like not a bit disheartened
25:43
but just say, oh, that's right.
25:44
You don't get all the furniture
25:46
and the nice furnishings and everything
25:47
from the open home in the house.
25:49
So you're like, oh, it looks a bit shit now.
25:51
I was like, I've just paid for these walls.
25:55
And this floor, yeah.
25:57
But obviously I was like, shit, yeah, this is my home.
26:00
And now I can put all my stuff in.
26:02
Oh, there's like, definitely a sense of,
26:04
and I want to do this and I'm going to get
26:06
rearranged this wall and I'm going to do this.
26:08
And then three is like, I haven't done any of that.
26:10
But, you know, it was just,
26:11
you want to put your mark on it and you want to have friends
26:14
over and you want, yeah, it's pretty cool.
26:16
It's a pretty nice feeling.
26:17
So with that deposit that you put down,
26:20
because in the home buyer's handbook,
26:21
you talk about using leverage
26:24
and how that can really amplify the returns
26:27
you can make through property.
26:28
So can you maybe explain that briefly
26:30
but then also say why you put such a massive amount down
26:33
as you're deposit then?
26:34
Because based on what I have read
26:36
and basically just proofread, yeah.
26:38
I would have thought you'd put less down
26:40
and use more of that leverage
26:43
so that you're maximizing the returns.
26:44
But the less you put down,
26:45
the more you have to pay in mortgage repayments.
26:47
And there was also something that scared me
26:49
about having such a massive debt.
26:51
Like, oh, my gosh.
26:52
Yeah, it's kind of personal preference.
26:54
We've put more of a deposit down
26:56
and then you pay less in mortgage repayments
26:58
or you do the opposite.
26:59
But it did scare me because I was still technically unemployed
27:03
and having to make, and I remember
27:05
when my first mortgage payment came out, I was like,
27:06
ah, what?
27:09
I think for me, and even when starting the curve,
27:12
like having a bit of savings
27:13
and having that safety net kind of like an emergency fund
27:16
for my own mental health is such a necessity.
27:18
And I think if I'd put everything in,
27:20
then if shit hit the fan, I had nothing to fall back on.
27:24
So I did leave a little bit
27:25
and thank goodness because they had other stuff to pay for.
27:27
But it was, it was like nothing.
27:29
I did put pretty much like 99% of my savings.
27:31
But that's kind of what I was meaning.
27:32
I would have thought that you would have put like half of that
27:36
like 250,000 down as the deposit and then.
27:39
I don't know, I think I've always thought
27:40
the more of a deposit, the better.
27:42
But I remember everyone was like,
27:43
you're buying at the top of the market.
27:45
And I was like, oh, sure, sure.
27:48
I was like, I'm buying for a lifestyle choice as well.
27:50
You know, I want to be paying off my own mortgage on someone else's.
27:53
And so I'm going to be here for the next couple of years.
27:55
I need some stability, some foundations.
27:58
And so thank goodness, I didn't listen to those people
28:01
because my house is probably now worth like 2.3 million.
28:05
But with that, like the market
28:08
once I bought it, just continued to go up and up and up.
28:11
And then we had COVID, which went like bananas.
28:14
And then last year, it fell quite a lot.
28:18
And then this year, it's starting to go back up again.
28:21
So that's three years in.
28:22
I decided to renovate.
28:24
So I borrowed more money from the bank.
28:26
So my mortgage has gone up.
28:28
Okay, so how does that work?
28:29
So I've got, well, you put down your deposit
28:32
and then you get a $6 amount of mortgage.
28:34
And then you pay that off.
28:36
You pay interest and you pay principles.
28:37
The principle is just like the actual number
28:40
and then interest is what they charge you.
28:42
So you slowly chip away and you start paying it down.
28:44
But then I was like, hey, can I actually get that money back
28:47
that I paid down because-
28:49
So you're going to deposit basically.
28:50
You're taking a bit more of your deposit out.
28:52
Sorry, I'm taking more borrowing more.
28:54
Yeah, yeah.
28:54
So I'm like, hey, I've paid that back.
28:56
But can I actually get it back because I want to renovate?
28:58
So that was about three years.
29:00
And so I've actually got about a million dollar mortgage.
29:04
So I've paid off some, but I've taken some down.
29:05
So it's kind of, it's hard to calculate.
29:07
You've still got about a million to pay off
29:09
before technically you own it.
29:11
Yeah.
29:11
I don't think so.
29:13
So does that mean though, if the property's around 2.3?
29:17
Does that mean you technically have about 1.3?
29:20
Equity?
29:20
Yeah.
29:21
Zero millionaire.
29:22
Well, I'm paying that.
29:24
But you're a millionaire.
29:25
It's like, I can call.
29:26
I'm paying that on paper.
29:28
Sorry, that is amazing.
29:30
Yeah.
29:30
Like I couldn't even imagine the freedom I would feel
29:35
if I knew that.
29:35
It's funny you say that because I just look at the IO million dollars.
29:39
That's what scares me.
29:40
But if you sold it, you would get over a million dollars.
29:43
Yeah, that's insane.
29:46
And that's why buying properties
29:47
definitely been something that I was like.
29:49
As much as the returns in the stock market,
29:51
great if you don't have enough for a deposit.
29:53
Yeah.
29:54
The amount you can amplify your returns
29:56
by borrowing money from the bank and leveraging
29:59
is massive.
30:00
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
30:01
And I'm not lucky that prices have gone up,
30:05
like property prices in New Zealand kind of double
30:07
every 10 years.
30:08
So if you take that long-term view,
30:12
hopefully they will go up.
30:14
But yeah, the great thing now is I could be like,
30:17
hey, I want to buy a second house.
30:18
Yeah, I've made 1.3.
30:20
Can I borrow some more from the bank?
30:21
Can I borrow 200,000, 300,000
30:23
and put that towards another property?
30:24
So you could use that as a deposit there?
30:26
Yeah.
30:27
So the banks can then you 80% of the value of the house.
30:29
So you have to put down roughly in normal situations.
30:31
You have to put down 20% deposit,
30:33
and they can lend you 80%.
30:34
If your house price goes up, you're like,
30:36
cool, OK, you can now lend me more
30:39
because my house price has gone up.
30:41
So that's how leverage works is that
30:43
with house prices go up and up and up,
30:44
the value of your house is more.
30:45
So you can borrow more.
30:47
So it also depends on your income
30:48
and a whole lot of other things.
30:49
So in your situation now,
30:51
if you were to draw down your house
30:53
and then buy another,
30:55
yeah, would you then be paying double more?
30:59
It would be under one mortgage, a fee to fee,
31:01
but your mortgage might go up to two million.
31:03
The mortgage repayments would go up,
31:05
yeah, and the dollar value of the mortgage, yeah.
31:08
So say, I probably couldn't borrow two million
31:11
for a $2.3 million house.
31:13
You'd be able to borrow 80% of $2.3 million,
31:16
but then if your income,
31:19
if you can't service the mortgage,
31:20
you can't pay the mortgage in the banks,
31:21
I'm going to lend you that.
31:22
If your house price goes from $1 million to $2 million,
31:25
you can now borrow 80% of $2 million versus 80% of $1 million.
31:29
So you could put that towards buying another house,
31:32
you could put that towards renovations,
31:34
but you go more into debt.
31:35
So you have to pay interest on that debt
31:38
and you have to eventually pay that back.
31:40
So you don't want to just be borrowing.
31:41
I remember when I was doing many renovations
31:43
and I was like, hey, can I borrow $50,000?
31:45
And they were like, yeah, yeah, cool here.
31:46
It's $50,000.
31:47
I was like, oh, can I borrow another $50,000?
31:49
Because the builders were coming through.
31:51
I was like, oh, gosh.
31:52
And they were like, when is this going to stop?
31:55
So they do get like a bit, if you keep drawing down.
31:58
And you're like, well, I've encoded to host this.
32:01
And it's actually tripled.
32:02
So I should have just borrowed a lump sum
32:04
and been like, hey, can I borrow $100,000 rather
32:06
than keep going back?
32:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:08
But you're also adding value to the house.
32:09
So for them, it's also no brainer.
32:12
So when you borrow money from a bank,
32:13
let's say you were to sell it tomorrow
32:15
and it's worth $2.3 million and you sell it for that,
32:18
you only have to pay the bank back what you originally borrowed.
32:22
That amount that you've made
32:23
is essentially like free money.
32:25
Free money, yeah.
32:27
So for somebody who might be in a situation
32:29
where they have a $50,000 in their savings
32:32
or $80,000 of savings or whatever it looks like,
32:36
if they were to say to you,
32:38
should I invest in stocks, or should I invest in property?
32:40
Would you say, and I know that you obviously can't give advice,
32:43
but in terms of the returns they could get,
32:46
if you can get into property,
32:48
and you can leave it there for a long time,
32:50
is it kind of an obrainer?
32:51
I mean, there's pluses and minuses
32:53
because once you're invested in property,
32:55
it's hard to sell it.
32:56
Do you know what I mean?
32:57
You've invested it, the process is much longer.
33:00
Once you've invested in it,
33:01
if you want to sell, you then have to go through the whole process again.
33:04
Do you know what I mean?
33:05
Where is like a stock?
33:06
You can invest and you can sell straight away.
33:09
It's very liquid, where is property isn't?
33:11
So it is a bit of a more clunky process, I guess.
33:15
And so, and there's definitely countries around the world
33:17
where property hasn't gone up.
33:19
Do you know what I mean?
33:20
We're just lucky that New Zealand is a very economically,
33:24
politically, socially attractive place to live.
33:26
So for someone like me,
33:29
what would the benefit of leaving my $50,000 key
33:33
we say that in key we say that are opposed to taking it out
33:36
and putting it into a property?
33:37
Because I'm not used to it.
33:38
There's no guarantee return, though.
33:40
Do you know what I mean?
33:41
You could have invested in 2021,
33:44
and you would have lost a lot of money
33:45
if you'd invested in property.
33:46
There's no guarantee, so it's not saying
33:48
that one's better than the other.
33:50
But neither with stocks, there's no guarantee.
33:52
No, exactly.
33:53
Yeah.
33:53
OK, you've also got to pay for the debt.
33:55
You've got to pay interest.
33:57
So that eats into your return as well.
33:59
So yes, you might, you're $50,000 that you're putting in
34:02
might double to $100,000, but you've paid a lot in interest
34:05
to service, especially now, interest rates of 7%.
34:08
You're paying away 7% a year on that amount.
34:11
So if property prices don't go up as much as that,
34:16
then you're not any better off if that makes sense.
34:18
There's nuances with it.
34:19
Otherwise, everyone would do it.
34:20
Any of it would be millennia's, any of it.
34:22
If anything's a no-brainer, everyone's brains
34:25
have come onto it and they've done it.
34:27
Do you know what I mean?
34:27
It's kind of...
34:28
But for me, my money's sitting...
34:30
I've got $50,000 sitting in Kiwi Saver.
34:33
I don't need that, and I can't use it.
34:35
You know who you're saying?
34:36
Investing in property is hard, because it's tied up
34:39
and something.
34:39
My Kiwi Saver is tied up, so I can't use that anyway.
34:44
So wouldn't it be better for me to put that towards something
34:46
that has the potential to grow much faster
34:49
than what it will in Kiwi Saver?
34:51
Yeah.
34:52
I mean, mine has grown 15% per year.
34:55
On average.
34:56
On average, in the stock market, it's done nine.
34:57
So there's not like this, that's a big difference,
35:00
but that's after six years, do you know what I mean?
35:02
But it's more...
35:03
Yes, but because you've used leverage,
35:04
that amount is way bigger in terms of your experience.
35:07
Yeah, yeah.
35:08
Because that's the main difference.
35:09
If I use leverage, and I can grow it 15%
35:13
including the money, I borrow from the bank.
35:15
Yeah.
35:16
My return will be way more than it would be
35:18
if I put it in the stock market.
35:20
Yes.
35:21
You would have to look at dollars
35:22
because I've probably regarded hate
35:24
and how much I paid an interest.
35:25
Do you know what I mean?
35:26
Like I've paid tens of thousands,
35:28
probably, you know, in mortgage repayments,
35:31
interest repayments, that if I'd had invested in the stock market,
35:34
I mean, I'd have to do the figures,
35:35
but that could have been a lot more.
35:37
I don't know, there's passes and minuses of both.
35:39
I guess we...
35:40
But so why would you ever buy another one then?
35:42
Why would...
35:43
Divisification.
35:44
If something happens to one property,
35:45
I've got the other property.
35:46
So for those who are wanting to get into the property market,
35:49
but feel scared of the idea of going into debt,
35:53
what kind of advice would you have?
35:55
Or like, I mean, you've been there, like,
35:57
was it scary?
35:58
And you know, I'm glad you did it.
36:00
It was scary, but it's like, totally worth it.
36:02
I think we never, you're outside your comfort zone.
36:05
And magic happens.
36:06
Yeah, I know.
36:07
I like to know what it's like in a cliché,
36:08
but it is.
36:10
You don't have anything, like, even starting a business
36:12
or moving countries or, you know,
36:14
whenever you feel outside your comfort zone,
36:16
it's like, well, you grow the most.
36:18
And as long as you've got the right, I guess,
36:21
resources and support around you,
36:23
so you kind of know what you're doing,
36:26
I think that will help ease the uncertainty
36:29
and uncomfortableness.
36:30
But we always talk about risk in return.
36:32
You've got to take a bit of risk to get the return.
36:35
And like, with investing in stocks,
36:37
like with investing in property, there's always risk.
36:39
You kind of look at the historicals,
36:41
look at the numbers and history shows
36:44
that New Zealand property prices are pretty stable
36:48
and pretty attractive, so that also helps.
36:51
And so for people who are thinking
36:53
I need a 20% deposit or $400,000.
36:56
Yeah, that's not true.
36:58
Right, you can actually look at getting property
37:00
for a lot less than that.
37:01
Definitely, yeah.
37:02
And I think it's also what I didn't realise
37:04
was there's so many options out there
37:07
of this government grants.
37:09
There's Kiwi Saver.
37:10
There's yet 5% deposit rather than 20%.
37:13
There's the more informed you are
37:15
and the more people you talk to,
37:17
the more you realise
37:18
there could be a little bit of money here
37:19
in there that you're missing out on.
37:20
And so that's quite an important thing
37:23
is don't be so closed off to the idea
37:26
of a 20% deposit.
37:28
And I'm never going to be able to afford a house.
37:30
Having an open mindset of, you know what?
37:32
I'm just going to put the fillers out there
37:34
and see what my options are
37:35
and talk to a mortgage advisor
37:37
and all that kind of stuff
37:38
just to get an idea.
37:40
And then maybe you will have a dollar figure that you need
37:42
or it'll just give you a bit more clarity
37:44
of the situation rather than assuming
37:46
that you'll never buy a property.
37:47
Because I must say before we...
37:48
Because that was you.
37:49
Yeah, I was about to say before we started doing
37:51
the Home Buies handbook,
37:52
I was like, this isn't for me.
37:54
I am not going to be able to take part in this course.
37:57
I'm not...
37:58
I honestly thought I was five years away
38:00
from being able to afford property.
38:01
And since talking to Laura,
38:04
who you've put the course together with,
38:06
she was like, oh, you can get five...
38:08
You can get five percent deposit.
38:09
Yeah.
38:10
And there's new build options
38:11
and you can get this grant.
38:13
And I was like, wait,
38:15
so I have enough of a deposit
38:16
and she's like, yeah.
38:17
But I never thought of a new build.
38:19
I just really crossed my mind.
38:21
And back in my day,
38:23
the Kiwis ever rules were different
38:25
and you could only take out.
38:26
I think it was your contributions
38:28
and your employers,
38:30
not the government or something,
38:31
so I couldn't take it all out.
38:32
So things have changed as well.
38:34
You know what I mean?
38:35
You can take out all your Kiwis
38:36
so you can have everything.
38:37
So I think doing your research
38:39
and exploring your options
38:40
and I think it might be closer
38:41
than you think,
38:42
like in your situation.
38:43
If I was like,
38:44
not a part of the curve
38:45
and I'd seen the home by his handbook,
38:47
I would have ignored it.
38:48
Yeah.
38:49
Because I would have been like,
38:50
oh, no, that's not for me.
38:51
But I think I am maybe
38:53
going to buy a property next year,
38:55
which is crazy to think.
38:57
I just never...
38:58
I just never would have thought of within my reach.
39:00
So I think if you're listening to this
39:01
and you've sort of been like,
39:02
I'm listening,
39:03
because I'm interested in property
39:04
that there's nowhere
39:05
I'm going to be buying it.
39:06
Yeah, definitely talk to people.
39:07
Yeah, and I also think
39:08
even just having the clarity
39:09
of being like,
39:10
okay, cool, I can't right now,
39:11
but at least I know
39:12
what dollar amount I need
39:14
and I can strive for that
39:15
or I can achieve that
39:17
within the next one or two years.
39:18
Do you know what I mean?
39:19
I'm having that
39:20
clarity of a dollar amount
39:22
and a goal
39:23
to having an amount
39:24
of a deposit to then buy a property.
39:25
Well, it's motivating.
39:26
Because for me,
39:27
it's just like, oh, so far away,
39:28
I can't even think of that.
39:29
It's so out of reach.
39:30
Oh, my gosh.
39:31
I'm having an out of order.
39:32
You put it in the two hard bars together.
39:33
It's like, oh, actually,
39:34
if I saved $50 a month,
39:35
then I could actually get it.
39:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:37
But yeah, if anyone is interested
39:38
in learning about property
39:39
and want to know
39:40
if the course is right
39:41
for them, let us know.
39:42
It starts in the first of November,
39:44
at 2023.
39:45
A few days.
39:46
Thank you for closing.
39:47
And it is on Wednesday.
39:50
Two-week course.
39:51
It's more like a manual
39:53
or like a Bible
39:54
that you can keep coming back to.
39:55
So it's not a
39:57
let's learn together.
39:59
It's a here's the documents
40:01
and the processes
40:02
and everything you need to know
40:04
for your individual
40:06
situation, not like.
40:07
That's learned together.
40:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:09
But you can find out
40:11
all the information about website.
40:13
We'll get in touch with this.
40:14
Um.
40:15
And dub, dub, dub.
40:16
Actually, curve.
40:17
Dot code it instead.
40:18
Thank you so much for listening
40:20
to raising the curve.
40:21
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40:23
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40:24
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40:25
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40:26
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40:28
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40:29
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40:41
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40:42
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40:43
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40:44
Bye.