Latest / UK Column Radio / UK Column News - 24th November 2025

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UK Column News - 24th November 2025 · UK Column Radio

0:08
Speaker 1: Good afternoon.
0:09
Speaker 2: It's Monday the twenty fourth, November twenty twenty five, just
0:11
Speaker 2: after one o'clock. Welcome to UK column News. I'm your
0:13
Speaker 2: host Mike Romson. Co host in the studio today is
0:16
Speaker 2: Ben Ruben. Welcome to the program, Ben, Thank you, Mike,
0:18
Speaker 2: and joining us by video linker Sandy Adams and Diane Raspusen.
0:21
Speaker 2: Later in the program, we're going to be covering the
0:24
Speaker 2: littst on the Assisted Dying Bill, taking a look at
0:26
Speaker 2: the Forward Institute and also the Loosest Trust, and we'll
0:30
Speaker 2: have an update on the government's digital regime, and also
0:32
Speaker 2: the letters from West streeting on gender in congruence. But
0:36
Speaker 2: we're going to begin today with the Ukraine peace deal
0:39
Speaker 2: that isn't so. On Saturday it was announced the peace
0:42
Speaker 2: talks will be held in Geneva on Sunday between the
0:45
Speaker 2: warring parties in Ukraine, all except Russia of course, because
0:48
Speaker 2: Russia is excluded. This is all to discuss Trump's twenty
0:52
Speaker 2: eight point peace plan, as Patrick is reporting on Friday's
0:55
Speaker 2: UK column News. So let's begin with a little bit
0:59
Speaker 2: from Kerse Armor, who was speaking to sky News on
1:01
Speaker 2: Saturday about his initial view of the plan.
1:07
Speaker 3: Well the plan, the twenty eight point plan has a
1:11
Speaker 3: number of important elements which are essential to adjust and
1:15
Speaker 3: lasting piece, and that's what we all want. There is
1:19
Speaker 3: more to do on the plan, and we've had a
1:22
Speaker 3: meeting this afternoon of like minded leaders from the Coalition
1:25
Speaker 3: of Willing who are here at the G twenty to
1:28
Speaker 3: engage on that, and tomorrow in Geneva will be a
1:32
Speaker 3: meeting of senior US personnel, of the Ukrainians and of
1:37
Speaker 3: NSA's national security advisors from Europe, including my national security advisor,
1:43
Speaker 3: to take things further forward.
1:46
Speaker 2: So, in other words, he doesn't like it at all
1:48
Speaker 2: because there's much more work to do. Well, come on
1:51
Speaker 2: to what he doesn't like about it in a second.
1:53
Speaker 2: But Starmer was then asked if he had spoken to
1:55
Speaker 2: Trump about the plan. Let's see what he said about that,
2:00
Speaker 2: And have you.
2:01
Speaker 4: Stikeen to President Trump yet about this peace plan?
2:04
Speaker 5: Constantly?
2:05
Speaker 3: I talked to President Trump frequently and I'm expecting to
2:09
Speaker 3: talk to him again in coming days.
2:13
Speaker 1: Well, Ben, the word no would have been a quicker
2:16
Speaker 1: answer to that question, wouldn't.
2:17
Speaker 5: I'll get a straight answer out of a politician.
2:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, particularly not that one.
2:22
Speaker 2: Anyway, The US was represented by Special Envoy Steve Whitcoff
2:25
Speaker 2: and Secretary of State Marco Rubio no Sanitay available there.
2:30
Speaker 2: But then also the head of the Ukrainian President's Office
2:35
Speaker 2: and the National Security Council Secretary from Ukraine were also there,
2:39
Speaker 2: and the delegation also met with European national security advisors.
2:43
Speaker 2: And the Starmer just said, and we're going ago. Jonathan Paul,
2:46
Speaker 2: his national security advisor, was there on behalf of his regime.
2:50
Speaker 2: So anyway, let's just have a look at the as
2:53
Speaker 2: a reminder of the key points of this plan, because
2:57
Speaker 2: they include handing over to Russia areas of Eastern don Bas,
3:02
Speaker 2: Crimea look sorry, Crimea, Luhansk and Danetsk would be recognized
3:06
Speaker 2: as the fact of Russian including by the United States.
3:10
Speaker 2: There would also be a reduction in Ukraine's army to
3:13
Speaker 2: six hundred thousand. Ukraine would not join NATO, although it
3:18
Speaker 2: can join the EU if it's daft enough to do that.
3:21
Speaker 2: And Russia would be brought back into the so called
3:24
Speaker 2: global economy and so the G seven would become the
3:27
Speaker 2: G eight again.
3:28
Speaker 1: And of course let's not.
3:29
Speaker 2: Forget the one hundred billion dollars of stolen Russian assets
3:33
Speaker 2: and be used to rebuild and invest in Ukraine, with
3:36
Speaker 2: the US grabbing fifty percent of any profits from that,
3:39
Speaker 2: and also an expectation that the EU would be adding
3:43
Speaker 2: one hundred billion dollars of its own money for investment
3:46
Speaker 2: and reconstruction. Now yesterday afternoon, then nine European countries, including
3:52
Speaker 2: the UK as well as Japan, Canada, the European Union
3:56
Speaker 2: were expressing what they were describing as on the ease
3:59
Speaker 2: with the US plan. They said it was an initial draft,
4:02
Speaker 2: that it would require additional work, just as star wars.
4:05
Speaker 2: You said, starmer said it had a number of important elements,
4:10
Speaker 2: that there's more to do, and Macron said we need
4:12
Speaker 2: something which is good for Ukrainians. Mertz said war can
4:16
Speaker 2: only be ended if Ukraine gives its unreserved consent, and
4:20
Speaker 2: the main issue for them seems to be one of
4:23
Speaker 2: the twenty eight clauses, which is the one that says
4:26
Speaker 2: that Ukraine cannot join NATO. But the German Foreign Minister
4:30
Speaker 2: by the end of the process was saying that this
4:32
Speaker 2: requirement had been removed from the plan, and if that's true,
4:35
Speaker 2: then European leaders have succeeded in keeping the war going going,
4:39
Speaker 2: because there's no way that Russia is going to accept that.
4:42
Speaker 2: But anyway, let's hear from Urshel vonder Land, President of
4:46
Speaker 2: the European Commission.
4:48
Speaker 6: We have agreed on the main elements necessary for just
4:52
Speaker 6: and lasting peace and Ukraine's sovereignty, and let me highlight
4:56
Speaker 6: three of them. First, borders cannot be changed by force. Second,
5:02
Speaker 6: as a sovereign nation, there cannot be limitations on Ukraine's
5:06
Speaker 6: armed forces that would leave the country vulnerable to future
5:10
Speaker 6: attack and thereby also undermining European security. Third, the centrality
5:16
Speaker 6: of the European Union and securing peace for Ukraine must
5:20
Speaker 6: be fully reflected.
5:24
Speaker 2: So she's basically said that there's three more they closes
5:28
Speaker 2: that Trump's proposing that are not acceptable the Europeans. So
5:32
Speaker 2: this is dead before it's even begun. It seems it
5:35
Speaker 2: will be re pay so, but Ursula had one other
5:38
Speaker 2: thing to say here, and this is going to take
5:39
Speaker 2: a slightly different direction. But let's listen to how she
5:42
Speaker 2: finished her little video clip that she put out yesterday.
5:47
Speaker 6: And I want to end on a point that is
5:49
Speaker 6: personally important to me, A crucial element that must be
5:53
Speaker 6: part of any agreement, the return of each and every
5:57
Speaker 6: Ukrainian child abducted by Russia. Of all the horrors unleashed
6:01
Speaker 6: by Russia's war, none cuts deeper than this. Tens of
6:06
Speaker 6: thousands of boys and girls remain trapped in Russia, frightened
6:11
Speaker 6: and longing for the loved ones. We must place these
6:15
Speaker 6: children at the top of the global agenda.
6:21
Speaker 2: So as usual, the hypocrisy is off the charts, because
6:25
Speaker 2: let's not forget or maybe or Suld would prefer that
6:28
Speaker 2: we did forget roly Post, the EU ambassador who was
6:35
Speaker 2: trying her best to get the lid of children being
6:38
Speaker 2: trafficked out of Romania decades ago, the fact that the
6:41
Speaker 2: EU is still the destination for trafficking for tens of
6:46
Speaker 2: thousands of children. I've mentioned this organization before, eg PAT.
6:52
Speaker 2: This is the NGO which tracks traffic children as best
6:55
Speaker 2: they can. And explain why I say that in a second.
6:58
Speaker 2: They've just released this report on a multi agency cross
7:01
Speaker 2: border simulation exercise on the trafficking of children held in
7:04
Speaker 2: the EU, and it says, just put that back on screen,
7:08
Speaker 2: if we could, thank you. It says more than thirty
7:12
Speaker 2: thousand children went missing after their arrival in Europe between
7:16
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen and twenty seventeen, and that they say is
7:18
Speaker 2: according to European Migration Network, the majority disappear before filing
7:23
Speaker 2: an asylum claim or during the asylum procedure. And they
7:26
Speaker 2: say that member states and stakeholders do not collect data
7:29
Speaker 2: on the systematic, uniform and comparable way, and very often
7:33
Speaker 2: the disappearance of a child in migration is not reported
7:37
Speaker 2: or reported only for administrative reasons. And that's why I
7:40
Speaker 2: say they do their best to find out what the
7:42
Speaker 2: figures are, because they go on to say that the
7:44
Speaker 2: real figure is therefore unknown, but it's expected to be
7:47
Speaker 2: much higher, and so the EU runs an exercise to
7:50
Speaker 2: see where the situation can be improved and what will
7:53
Speaker 2: come of it nothing, because this is big business, so
7:56
Speaker 2: Urshula should perhaps look to herself first before casing expersions
8:00
Speaker 2: on others. Now, a long time, long time UK column
8:04
Speaker 2: news viewers will know that Vanessa Billy has visited refugee
8:06
Speaker 2: Ukrainian children in Russia and seen how they're being looked after.
8:10
Speaker 2: And that's not to say that Russia is getting at
8:12
Speaker 2: one hundred percent right. I'm not qualified to make that statement,
8:14
Speaker 2: but it certainly I'm qualified to say in this case
8:18
Speaker 2: that Ershula is a hypocrite absolutely. Now we don't can't
8:23
Speaker 2: let ourselves off the hook here in the UK because
8:26
Speaker 2: if we bring this EGPAT report on screen. They've just
8:30
Speaker 2: published this in the last few days and this updates
8:33
Speaker 2: the report on Britain's record in this area that we've
8:36
Speaker 2: covered in past years. They say that traffic children continue
8:40
Speaker 2: to be one of the groups who are most at
8:43
Speaker 2: risk of going missing in the UK, with nearly two
8:45
Speaker 2: and five going missing in twenty twenty four. They also
8:48
Speaker 2: found that unaccompanied children also remain at risk of going missing,
8:53
Speaker 2: with a rate of thirteen percent compared to ten percent
8:56
Speaker 2: of the looked after child population in England. These children
9:00
Speaker 2: remain at high risk of going missing from care in
9:02
Speaker 2: the UK, persistent finding over the last decade which shows
9:06
Speaker 2: a continuing and significant failure in safeguarding. Many systems and
9:10
Speaker 2: processes and force in the UK appear to be exacerbating
9:13
Speaker 2: this risk with little meaningful consideration of or ability to
9:18
Speaker 2: provide care and safety for these children the traffic. So
9:22
Speaker 2: I'm going to say that the trafficking of children is
9:24
Speaker 2: an industry in the West EU and Britain included for
9:29
Speaker 2: slave libor for organs, for sexual slavery, and I think ursula,
9:33
Speaker 2: we should be cleaning our own house first, any thoughts
9:38
Speaker 2: nothing to add to that. Well, look, let's move on
9:41
Speaker 2: then to the UK again and Sandy, welcome to the
9:46
Speaker 2: program and bring us up to date and what's going
9:48
Speaker 2: on with the issue of excuse me, assisted dying?
9:55
Speaker 7: Thank you, thank you, Mike, and welcome everyone. Yes, as
10:01
Speaker 7: I mentioned last week in what last week's show, the
10:03
Speaker 7: Terminally Ill Adults end of Life Bill has now reached
10:06
Speaker 7: its committee stage and in the House of Lords, but
10:11
Speaker 7: it's in serious danger of running out of time. Although
10:14
Speaker 7: it's a relatively short bill, peers who oppose the assisted
10:17
Speaker 7: dying have trebled over one thousand amendments, an unprecedented figure
10:21
Speaker 7: that has slowed progress to a crawl. After two full
10:25
Speaker 7: days in committee, the Lords have barely made it past
10:27
Speaker 7: the opening clauses. In this article in The Guardian, Simon
10:31
Speaker 7: Jenkins reports his view of the unelected Lords deliberately blocking
10:35
Speaker 7: the bill and calling it an outrage and on Hansard.
10:39
Speaker 7: They publish that they may run out of time due
10:41
Speaker 7: to the volume of amendments to get through, so with
10:45
Speaker 7: the bill only being scheduled on occasional fridays from now
10:50
Speaker 7: on and the parliamentary session ticking down. This flood of
10:53
Speaker 7: amendments is seen by its supporters as a deliberate tactic
10:57
Speaker 7: to choke the bill by procediality than defeating the clean vote.
11:03
Speaker 7: I've been looking at the you know, the networks of
11:06
Speaker 7: organizations behind the push for legislation, shaping the public narrative
11:10
Speaker 7: and lobbying of parliament. Now Dignacy in Dying I think
11:15
Speaker 7: we've got slight here is the main campaign group fronting
11:18
Speaker 7: the effort, supported by a number of charities with interests
11:21
Speaker 7: in pushing the bill through, with its sister charity, Compassion
11:25
Speaker 7: in Dying, which has received significant funding from a pake
11:28
Speaker 7: offshore trusts. Alongside them the Assisted Dying Coalition coalition including
11:33
Speaker 7: Humanist UK and My Death, My Decision Now. Also a
11:38
Speaker 7: big player in this is the influence of More in Common. Now.
11:42
Speaker 7: More in Common are a philanthropy funded communications outfit who
11:47
Speaker 7: were set up after the MP Jo Cox's murder in
11:49
Speaker 7: twenty sixteen. Their polling has been heavily used to frame
11:53
Speaker 7: assisted dying as a mainstream, popular reform. They were responsible
11:57
Speaker 7: for last year's shocking posters for assisted dying, advertised by
12:00
Speaker 7: Transport for London and I'm sure we remember those.
12:03
Speaker 4: They were quite shocking.
12:06
Speaker 7: They in turn received funding from the William and Flora
12:09
Speaker 7: Hewitt Foundation. Now, this foundation gives grants to organizations such
12:15
Speaker 7: as Digital Promise, Global and Open Education, and major grants
12:19
Speaker 7: to groups like Water Foundation, Wildlife Conservation Society Canada. They're very,
12:24
Speaker 7: very into population as well. They're the Global they fund
12:28
Speaker 7: the Global Development to Population, gender equality and governance. So
12:33
Speaker 7: they've they've they've got a lot of skin in the
12:36
Speaker 7: game of pushing this bill. Taken altogether, this represents a
12:40
Speaker 7: well organized, well funded communications and advocacy machine, while opponent
12:45
Speaker 7: opponents in the Lords rely on procedural obstruction to allow
12:48
Speaker 7: or block the bill's progress. Now Dignacy and Dying, you know,
12:53
Speaker 7: they're they're hugely funded one point eight million this year
12:57
Speaker 7: and they had an income, largely of donations, of zero
13:00
Speaker 7: point million. They do a lot of campaign work, political lobbying,
13:06
Speaker 7: and you know they've managed to really push this through
13:10
Speaker 7: with the lobbying. The Canary recently featured an article on
13:16
Speaker 7: donations received between twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three
13:20
Speaker 7: by an offshore investi called Church Street Trustees. Now Compassionate
13:24
Speaker 7: in Dying received three hundred thousand donation from Church Street
13:28
Speaker 7: Trustees are registered in Jersey and appearing in the Panama papers.
13:34
Speaker 7: The information of any relevance to Church Street Trustees donation
13:37
Speaker 7: comes in files from the US Securities Exchange Commission. It
13:41
Speaker 7: revolved around electric field cancer therapy, a corporation called Novacure,
13:47
Speaker 7: and the company is a brainchild of Yuran Palati, a
13:50
Speaker 7: professor of physiology and biophysics at the Israeli Institute of Technology.
13:55
Speaker 7: The company acts as a trustee for hundreds of offshore
13:58
Speaker 7: structures across tax havens such as British Virgin Islands, Hong Kong.
14:04
Speaker 7: And this is where they sort of lose. Everything's sort
14:07
Speaker 7: of behind, obscured by identity wealth, and they move money
14:11
Speaker 7: without scrutiny, much of it directly on political lobbying. This
14:16
Speaker 7: mirror is the situation in Canada where the main pro
14:19
Speaker 7: assisted dying organization Made is backed by corporate giants like Google,
14:23
Speaker 7: suncor and Pfizer, and it's used its wealth to drive
14:26
Speaker 7: legislative change. The result has been a system where people
14:30
Speaker 7: are turning to assisted death not out of choice, but
14:32
Speaker 7: because of poverty, homelessness, or lack of care. And this
14:35
Speaker 7: is you know this is what we're I'm sort of
14:37
Speaker 7: worried that this is being mirrored in the UK right now. Now,
14:43
Speaker 7: it's not. It's not really only the problem of clandestine
14:47
Speaker 7: donors fundwing large sums of cash to the charity, concealing
14:51
Speaker 7: potential arterior motives. It's that regard. You know, this huge
14:54
Speaker 7: funding from these wealthy donors gives an outside influence over
14:58
Speaker 7: policymakers and the commpanies manufacturing euthanasia drugs. Now, someone who's
15:04
Speaker 7: particularly outraged by the Lord's nine hundred plus amendments is
15:08
Speaker 7: Dame Edester Ranson and actually said here that she's well,
15:15
Speaker 7: she's eighty five year old, former BBC presenter and creator
15:18
Speaker 7: of Childline in the nineteen eighties and nineties. She said
15:21
Speaker 7: in this ITV report that the Lord are deliberately holding
15:24
Speaker 7: the bill up and sabotaging it. And here's what she
15:27
Speaker 7: says about the bill. She says, the particular circumstances of
15:31
Speaker 7: the bill are up to those parliamentarians who have been
15:34
Speaker 7: looking at the bill with such care and professionalism, and
15:37
Speaker 7: we want to get it right. But don't tell me
15:40
Speaker 7: that nine hundred plus amendments is about getting it right. Well,
15:44
Speaker 7: maybe it is about getting it right. Actually, Esther, now, ironically,
15:49
Speaker 7: Dame Esther is living proof that the terminally ill Adults
15:52
Speaker 7: end of life bill is flawed. She was apparently diagnosed
15:56
Speaker 7: with terminal lung cancer and given six months to live,
15:58
Speaker 7: but that was three years ago. She could have opted
16:01
Speaker 7: to die then in Switzerland. However, she appears strong enough
16:04
Speaker 7: to do a lead in this campaign, doing interviews throughout
16:08
Speaker 7: many media outlets. So anyway, let's remind ourselves of her
16:12
Speaker 7: heyday at the BBC. We have a photograph here, Yes,
16:18
Speaker 7: this is Esther in her heyday at the BBC. Now
16:21
Speaker 7: you know there's there's so much lobbying going on. What
16:24
Speaker 7: will happen with this bill? It's in the lap of
16:26
Speaker 7: the gods. Really, we'll see back to.
16:29
Speaker 1: You, Sandy, thank you for that. That's uh.
16:36
Speaker 5: How could she have known?
16:38
Speaker 1: No one?
16:38
Speaker 5: You? No one knew when you about. Of course they
16:41
Speaker 5: did on you, of course not.
16:43
Speaker 2: But anyway, look, let's let's move on down to the
16:46
Speaker 2: former institute. This is an organization I haven't heard of.
16:50
Speaker 2: What are they up to?
16:52
Speaker 5: What are they up to? Well?
16:53
Speaker 8: You may have noticed that the social, political, and economic
16:57
Speaker 8: pillars of our society are being torn down. So that
17:00
Speaker 8: it can be replaced with a new global system that
17:04
Speaker 8: meets the needs and the ends of international capital and
17:08
Speaker 8: unelected rulers like our own monarchy for example. As we'll
17:13
Speaker 8: come on too. And a lot of this used to
17:15
Speaker 8: center around this organization, Common Purpose. Regular viewers of the
17:19
Speaker 8: column will be very familiar with Common Purpose talks about
17:22
Speaker 8: it endlessly over the years. We'll put some links you
17:24
Speaker 8: can go and refresh your memory. But for my assessment,
17:29
Speaker 8: Common Purpose seems to have gone global. They still exist,
17:32
Speaker 8: they're huge, they're very influential, but they're much more likely
17:35
Speaker 8: to be talking about things happening in Singapore, South Africa
17:38
Speaker 8: and North America or elsewhere at the moment. And I
17:41
Speaker 8: think that some of the slack in this country has
17:45
Speaker 8: been picked up by other organizations, including in particular this one.
17:49
Speaker 8: This is the Forward Institute, a nonprofit based in London
17:54
Speaker 8: which exists apparently to shape a better future through responsible leadership.
18:00
Speaker 8: It's a growing network of fifteen hundred leaders committed to
18:03
Speaker 8: changing their organizations and the systems that they sit in.
18:08
Speaker 8: This is about transformation of the system to align with
18:11
Speaker 8: a global agenda designed to benefit the ruling class ultimately,
18:16
Speaker 8: and we're going to hear now from one of the
18:21
Speaker 8: one of the fellows from their leadership program, lady called
18:24
Speaker 8: Sarah Gillard, about what this is all about.
18:29
Speaker 9: As a leader, you all know that we are already
18:32
Speaker 9: living in a complex, dynamic, interconnected world with a huge
18:36
Speaker 9: amount of challenges and a huge amount of opportunities. And
18:39
Speaker 9: those challenges and opportunities are a scale that probably haven't
18:43
Speaker 9: been seen ever before in human history. The effects of
18:45
Speaker 9: climate change and the biodiversity loss. We're dealing with the
18:48
Speaker 9: effects of social inequality, polarization, political lack of trust, and
18:53
Speaker 9: systems potentially the effects of AI which are unknown yet.
18:57
Speaker 9: We have lived in a world for fifty sixty years
19:01
Speaker 9: that has been generally seen as trying to create an
19:05
Speaker 9: economy that's destined to maximize financial success financial goals, and
19:09
Speaker 9: that's worked really well. It's created great prosperity and growth
19:12
Speaker 9: and innovation and huge solutions to big challenges, and it
19:16
Speaker 9: really has lifted loads of people out of poverty, and
19:18
Speaker 9: there's been extraordinary benefits from that type of economy. Government
19:23
Speaker 9: and business and civil society operate in sort of separate
19:26
Speaker 9: swim lanes. So government sets the rules, business acts within
19:29
Speaker 9: those rules to try and maximize financial returns, and civil
19:32
Speaker 9: society or the third sector or NGO sort of pick
19:34
Speaker 9: up the rest, pickup where the market has failed. That
19:37
Speaker 9: has worked really well for a considerable number of decades,
19:40
Speaker 9: but it's unlikely to work in the future because these
19:42
Speaker 9: problems that we now face are so complex and so
19:45
Speaker 9: interconnected and so dynamic that no one organization, whether it's
19:49
Speaker 9: business or government or civil society, can act on its
19:52
Speaker 9: own in order to solve those challenges. And the mindset
19:55
Speaker 9: that's required to do that is very different from the
19:57
Speaker 9: old way. So we're going to have to learn how
19:59
Speaker 9: to collaborate, how to find our common goals, how to
20:03
Speaker 9: work with each other using our skills and expertise from
20:06
Speaker 9: our different backgrounds, but in service of something that we're
20:09
Speaker 9: actually trying to achieve together.
20:12
Speaker 1: And service of what.
20:13
Speaker 8: Well, that's a good question, but you know it's a
20:17
Speaker 8: familiar it's familiar territory, right, poly crisis, everything's collapsing, climate change.
20:25
Speaker 8: We've got to do things differently. We need common goals,
20:28
Speaker 8: maybe a common purpose, a good idea, and also this
20:32
Speaker 8: idea of business, government and civil society have got to
20:35
Speaker 8: come together and integrate into a single system.
20:38
Speaker 5: Right.
20:38
Speaker 8: This is this this process of integration public private partnership
20:41
Speaker 8: we talk about all the time, and that she goes
20:44
Speaker 8: on in that video to say that this generation of
20:47
Speaker 8: leaders has to invent a new way of thinking about
20:50
Speaker 8: what the economy is for, which is an extraordinary brief
20:54
Speaker 8: that they seem to upset themselves, like who are these people?
20:57
Speaker 8: And how is she presenting herself as a lead? She
21:00
Speaker 8: opens up as leaders, We're leaders everyone, We're going to
21:03
Speaker 8: lead people?
21:04
Speaker 5: Really like who? Why?
21:05
Speaker 8: Like you used to work at John Lewis for a
21:07
Speaker 8: few years in a strategy in a board level role, admittedly,
21:11
Speaker 8: but the idea you're going to come in and completely
21:13
Speaker 8: transform everything seems a little bit far fetched to me.
21:16
Speaker 8: But anyway, this is how they're presenting themselves. So that
21:19
Speaker 8: was a piece of marketing material essentially, and it was
21:22
Speaker 8: accompanied by this brochure so I can just put out
21:25
Speaker 8: a few a few of the pages so we can
21:28
Speaker 8: have a look at So it's about don't just navigate
21:31
Speaker 8: the future.
21:31
Speaker 5: You're going to lead the future.
21:33
Speaker 8: Into a fifteen month program where you will go through.
21:37
Speaker 5: An inner shift.
21:39
Speaker 8: So this is reframing, transforming your perspective, building uncommon connections.
21:46
Speaker 8: So this is about networking across other leaders in different
21:49
Speaker 8: parts of society, broadening how you see the world, so
21:53
Speaker 8: transforming your understanding of how the system fits together, what
21:56
Speaker 8: you think can potentially be in the future, and then
21:58
Speaker 8: also critically work on what matters. They're actually bringing real work,
22:02
Speaker 8: bringing your day to day work into this process. And
22:05
Speaker 8: the people coming into this come from the top fifty
22:09
Speaker 8: organizations in the UK, corporate, civil service, military, absolutely across
22:14
Speaker 8: the peace right. We'll come onto that a bit more
22:16
Speaker 8: in a moment. They've got a program they run, so
22:19
Speaker 8: they've been doing I think they're onto their tenth now, right,
22:21
Speaker 8: and they bring about one hundred people through over a
22:24
Speaker 8: period of fifteen months, retreats, seminars, coaching, learning groups, networking
22:31
Speaker 8: and then a community at the end. Right, So this
22:34
Speaker 8: thing lives on beyond the end of the program, and
22:38
Speaker 8: this is about rewiring yourself, developing a new you. Bactually says,
22:43
Speaker 8: rewire the leader within. You can see at the bottom there,
22:46
Speaker 8: establishing a view of what's coming. So what's happening in
22:50
Speaker 8: the future. And when they say that, that means the
22:52
Speaker 8: technological and political and social roadmap that is being handed
22:57
Speaker 8: down to us from the World Economic Forum in the
22:59
Speaker 8: US and places like that, as we'll come back to
23:02
Speaker 8: in a moment. Right, So they immerse people in this
23:04
Speaker 8: stuff and say this is the inevitability of where we
23:07
Speaker 8: need to move to, and then we're going to drive
23:09
Speaker 8: through a process of change. As we can see, you
23:12
Speaker 8: can say, they face what the transformation is going to take,
23:15
Speaker 8: and then you can participate in delivering that.
23:17
Speaker 5: Right.
23:17
Speaker 8: And as I say, there's fifteen hundred people in this network,
23:20
Speaker 8: it's very similar to what's going on has been happening
23:24
Speaker 8: with common purpose, very similar to other networks that we
23:26
Speaker 8: see elsewhere in the civil service and other parts of society. Right,
23:31
Speaker 8: extraordinarily well connected. So they're talking here about academic contacts
23:35
Speaker 8: in places like Oxford and incad corporations like Netflix, deep
23:40
Speaker 8: minds obviously part of Google, CEOs, and systems leaders. They
23:45
Speaker 8: describe them as in government, corporate, and the military. Crucially,
23:49
Speaker 8: this one is particularly close to the UK military. And
23:51
Speaker 8: then also bringing in what they call provocateurs and visionaries,
23:55
Speaker 8: people like Sam Caniff, who actually showed a little while
23:58
Speaker 8: ago because he had this thing running where he was
24:00
Speaker 8: getting men to paint in the nails and that was
24:02
Speaker 8: supposed to say something about the future of masculinity, so
24:05
Speaker 8: that's the kind of stuff that's getting into this and
24:08
Speaker 8: then lots of different types of organizations. So these are
24:11
Speaker 8: the people, these are the organizations that the recruits into
24:14
Speaker 8: this program are going to be coming from, as well
24:17
Speaker 8: as well as places like the Metropolitan Police. You can
24:20
Speaker 8: actually see their few named individuals. Ad A ade la
24:23
Speaker 8: Can who's the Deputy Assistant Commissioner at the Metropolitan Police.
24:27
Speaker 8: Hannah Bernard ob head a business banking of Barclays, and
24:30
Speaker 8: Nick Cowley OBU, major General in the British Army who
24:35
Speaker 8: was the commandant of the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst.
24:38
Speaker 8: So like training the next generation of military leaders in
24:41
Speaker 8: the country. Absolutely top level access these people have got
24:45
Speaker 8: and it is transformational for them. So there's a quote
24:47
Speaker 8: here from Montor participants, the Forward Institute has had a
24:50
Speaker 8: profound impact on my perspective and it's not an exaggeration
24:53
Speaker 8: to say that it has transformed my outlook on the world,
24:57
Speaker 8: which is crucial because they need to change people's outlook because,
25:01
Speaker 8: according to them, and I think this is certainly borne
25:03
Speaker 8: out by the facts, if you change leadership, you change everything.
25:07
Speaker 8: That's their theory of change. That's how they're going to
25:09
Speaker 8: affect change across the system and it's ongoing. So this
25:13
Speaker 8: is the most recent cohort in Bristol last week looking
25:17
Speaker 8: at statues that they might want to tear down at
25:19
Speaker 8: some point in the future, networking convening, developing their plans
25:25
Speaker 8: for how they're going.
25:25
Speaker 5: To reshape everything. Right, So this is actually.
25:28
Speaker 8: Happening right now, has been going on for just over
25:31
Speaker 8: a decade because it was founded and I can get
25:33
Speaker 8: into he's putting the strings here ultimately right by this chap.
25:37
Speaker 8: This is Adam Gridrecci Gridecci. I think I'm saying that correct.
25:43
Speaker 8: Godet Ski All right there, We've got Irish and European
25:47
Speaker 8: correspondent on the desk with me. So he's he founded it,
25:51
Speaker 8: it's been going for ten years. His background was at
25:54
Speaker 8: the Boston Consulting Group, so one of the top strategy
25:57
Speaker 8: firms in the world. He was also governor, actually is
26:01
Speaker 8: a governor of ARC Academy, which is Paul Marshall's play
26:05
Speaker 8: in the education space. So again, people who like gb News,
26:08
Speaker 8: this is what Paul Marshall's actually up to behind the scenes,
26:11
Speaker 8: working with these people. And this guy was also part
26:13
Speaker 8: of the World Economic Forum Global Shaper Program, which is
26:17
Speaker 8: the under thirties version of the Young Global Leaders. So
26:20
Speaker 8: this is hand selected by the World Economic Forum in
26:23
Speaker 8: order to implement their transformation agenda. What's he doing. He's
26:26
Speaker 8: running Forward Institute and that's his contribution.
26:29
Speaker 5: To that process.
26:29
Speaker 8: Who else is there so on the leadership Ruth Turner,
26:33
Speaker 8: she's a senior director. She founded the Tony Blair Faith
26:36
Speaker 8: Foundation and led it for six years, so that was
26:39
Speaker 8: part of the precursor process to the Institute for Global Chains.
26:43
Speaker 8: He had about five or six of these different things
26:45
Speaker 8: that he spun up. She helped with that. She used
26:47
Speaker 8: to work with him at Number ten. She also used
26:49
Speaker 8: to work at NEST. All the usual suspects. This guy
26:52
Speaker 8: is fascinating on the board Martin Hewitt, So he from
26:56
Speaker 8: twenty nineteen to twenty twenty three was the chair of
26:58
Speaker 8: the National Police Chiefs Council, so he was the central
27:02
Speaker 8: figure through the whole COVID period overseeing the police. I
27:08
Speaker 8: may he knows where the body are buried metaphorically speaking
27:12
Speaker 8: of course, and that he now runs border security for
27:14
Speaker 8: the Home Office. So we had a little break when
27:16
Speaker 8: he did. Some other staff, including working with Forward Institute
27:18
Speaker 8: and he's now working running border security at the Home Office.
27:22
Speaker 5: What a fascinating job that must be at the moment.
27:25
Speaker 8: So anyway, moving on the chair, Sir Anthony Saltz. Big
27:30
Speaker 8: hitters here, absolutely top level city grandees. Anthony Saltz was
27:35
Speaker 8: the exec vice chairman of Rothschild between two thousand and
27:39
Speaker 8: six and twenty seventeen. Top banker at the same time
27:43
Speaker 8: or actually during that similar period, he was the vice
27:46
Speaker 8: chair of the BBC Board of Governors. He was I
27:49
Speaker 8: believe on the board of the Scott Trust. It's not
27:51
Speaker 8: listed here, but Scott Trust that owns The Guardian. He
27:54
Speaker 8: was the chair of the Eden Trust, which owns the
27:56
Speaker 8: Eden Project. He's a trustee or formerly a trustee of
27:59
Speaker 8: the Hamlin Foundation, one of these civil society organizations in
28:03
Speaker 8: this space. And he also ran a number of government reviews,
28:07
Speaker 8: including one looking at press regulation, which was a precursor
28:12
Speaker 8: to Levison. This whole that has kind of hacked off
28:14
Speaker 8: era back around twenty twelve. So a lot of the
28:17
Speaker 8: stuff that we're dealing with now in terms of what
28:19
Speaker 8: off comes up to, for example, would have been heavily
28:23
Speaker 8: influenced by this chap. Just a final person to note
28:27
Speaker 8: on the board because this takes us directly back into
28:29
Speaker 8: British's Royalty. Ian Cheshire is an expert advisor to Forward Institute.
28:34
Speaker 8: He's the chair of a bunch of organizations. Particular one
28:38
Speaker 8: that jumped out of me is the We Mean Business Coalition.
28:40
Speaker 8: We could spend hours talking about we Mean Business. That
28:44
Speaker 8: is absolutely central to the global transition that they're trying
28:48
Speaker 8: to push us into at the moment. But also interestingly
28:51
Speaker 8: he is the chair of the King Charles the Third
28:54
Speaker 8: Charitable Fund, personally hand selected by the King to run
28:57
Speaker 8: his personal charitable fund. Near the eye hanging out at
29:01
Speaker 8: a We Mean Business Coalition event, you can see Charlie
29:04
Speaker 8: boy there. Inches Y is just to the left. If
29:06
Speaker 8: anyone can give me some ideas on this crowd, I
29:09
Speaker 8: would love to know. I know a few of them,
29:11
Speaker 8: but I don't know all of them. So if anyone
29:13
Speaker 8: that jumps out, you get in touch, because I want
29:15
Speaker 8: to know exactly who's in this picture. But this is
29:18
Speaker 8: who's pulling the strings the Forward Institute and progressing the
29:23
Speaker 8: radical transformation of the country across the piece.
29:27
Speaker 5: Amazing.
29:28
Speaker 2: Okay, well it looked very calm and purpose to me. Yes,
29:32
Speaker 2: and yeah, we will talk more about this an extra
29:34
Speaker 2: I have no doubt.
29:36
Speaker 1: Thank you for that.
29:36
Speaker 2: Okay, let's say that if you like what we do
29:39
Speaker 2: here at the UK column, if you'd like to support us,
29:41
Speaker 2: we do need your ongoing financial support. Please have a
29:45
Speaker 2: look at the front page of the website. Have a
29:47
Speaker 2: look at the page that describes the ways you can't
29:50
Speaker 2: support us financially. If you can't support us financially, then
29:53
Speaker 2: please do share materially I find on the website, because
29:57
Speaker 2: that helps us beat the censorship system. Now, speaking of
30:00
Speaker 2: beating a promise, you German has not been beaten up
30:03
Speaker 2: in this particular image, but although he should have been,
30:07
Speaker 2: because this should have gone out on Friday instead, Weekly
30:09
Speaker 2: Banter is going out tonight, So you're going to get
30:11
Speaker 2: two weekly banters this week and so tonight and on Friday.
30:15
Speaker 1: But join us at seven for that.
30:18
Speaker 2: Carl is once again speaking to Danna Burton, this time
30:21
Speaker 2: talking about a tour of Shanghai that's at nine pm
30:25
Speaker 2: this evening tomorrow. I'm speaking to Masako Ganaha, who is
30:30
Speaker 2: Japanese activist, shall we say, and journalist, and she's talking
30:37
Speaker 2: about Japan being stuck in the middle between the United
30:39
Speaker 2: States and China. So we'll be talking about that tomorrow briefly, Diane.
30:45
Speaker 2: Then a couple of articles here one are we free?
30:50
Speaker 4: Yes, thanks Mike, and hell everyone, it's good to be
30:53
Speaker 4: here today. This is just a quick note about a
30:55
Speaker 4: new Black Post kind of an opinion piece that was
30:58
Speaker 4: just posted about the idea of freedom and asking if
31:01
Speaker 4: we are free in this country. This relates to starting
31:04
Speaker 4: with things like what happened to us in twenty twenty
31:06
Speaker 4: and going forward.
31:08
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, and you're speaking with Kelly Oliver Doug Google. I.
31:14
Speaker 4: Yes. This will be broadcast live Wednesday evening at eight
31:18
Speaker 4: pm on her YouTube channel. The links should be in
31:20
Speaker 4: the show notes. And here I'm just telling my story
31:22
Speaker 4: about what happened to my academic career and what happens
31:26
Speaker 4: now and now that I am with UK column full time.
31:29
Speaker 2: Okay, and Ben, you and Sandy you're speaking at the weekend.
31:33
Speaker 8: We are speaking at the weekend twenty ninth and November.
31:36
Speaker 8: Mike Yden, myself, Sandy Adams. We're going to be in
31:39
Speaker 8: Stroud at the Old Convent. Starts at two pm. I've
31:42
Speaker 8: been told to ask you all to bring cash. It's
31:45
Speaker 8: seventeen pounds on the door. It's going to be fantastic.
31:48
Speaker 5: Can't wait.
31:49
Speaker 1: Okay, brilliant, Thank you Ben. Okay.
31:51
Speaker 2: Let's move on then to digital matters, and we'll start
31:56
Speaker 2: off with the Online Safety because Ofcom's plans for charging
31:59
Speaker 2: fees for the privilege of being regulated by them have
32:02
Speaker 2: received government approval and Liz Kendall has created a statutory
32:05
Speaker 2: instrument to enable OFCOM to start collecting the cash.
32:09
Speaker 1: Now this is of course secondary legislation.
32:13
Speaker 2: This is one of the things which has been enabled
32:15
Speaker 2: by the Online Safety Act, and so what they've agreed
32:19
Speaker 2: to do is to set the qualifying worldwide revenue threshold
32:23
Speaker 2: of two hundred and fifty million pounds. So basically, if
32:27
Speaker 2: you're not got a turnover of more than two hundred
32:30
Speaker 2: and fifty million pounds, you don't have to pay them
32:32
Speaker 2: any fees. But obviously that's going to capture quite a
32:34
Speaker 2: number of social media companies and other platforms. But they
32:38
Speaker 2: say that this threshold ensures the small services which fall
32:41
Speaker 2: below will not face the burdens of fee paying. And
32:44
Speaker 2: then Ofcom's proposal to exempt from paying fees any provider
32:49
Speaker 2: whose UK revenue is less than ten million pounds was
32:53
Speaker 2: also agreed by the government as well. It's not clear
32:56
Speaker 2: yet exactly how much platforms will have to pay, but
33:00
Speaker 2: it looks like it's going to be some kind of
33:01
Speaker 2: a pay calculation based on the number of users that
33:04
Speaker 2: the platform has, with a cap of zero point zero
33:07
Speaker 2: five percent of global profits. Now, this is a very
33:11
Speaker 2: similar idea to that being discussed or imposed by the EU,
33:17
Speaker 2: and so perhaps that's not much for surprise because we're
33:20
Speaker 2: keeping everything pretty much in lockstep with the EU. But
33:24
Speaker 2: in the meantime, in related news, the attack on VPN
33:29
Speaker 2: use continues to build. This time it's Twitter or X. Now,
33:33
Speaker 2: this is something we've been speaking about for a number
33:35
Speaker 2: of weeks, but Vice is now reporting that X is
33:37
Speaker 2: going to be placing text on the profiles of anyone
33:40
Speaker 2: that uses a VPN to use X or to post there.
33:44
Speaker 2: X seems to be claiming that this is to keep
33:45
Speaker 2: people safe from foreign influence and misinformation, and they're saying
33:50
Speaker 2: that when you read content on X, you should be
33:53
Speaker 2: able to verify its authenticity and this is critical to
33:57
Speaker 2: getting a pulse on important issues happening on the world.
34:00
Speaker 2: That's according to Nikita Beer, who's head of product at X,
34:04
Speaker 2: and she said that in October. But they've moved forward
34:07
Speaker 2: with this now and that's what Advice was reporting on now.
34:11
Speaker 2: In principle, I don't have any issue with it. What
34:15
Speaker 2: I do have an issue with is the implication that
34:17
Speaker 2: VPN usage is directly to do with shady practices, criminal activity,
34:22
Speaker 2: or deliberate deception, because you know, it is absolutely clear
34:26
Speaker 2: that using a VPN is a sensible component of daily
34:29
Speaker 2: Internet use, as long as everyone is understanding that the
34:33
Speaker 2: VPNs have limitations, and as long as we all don't
34:37
Speaker 2: assume that they VPNs in and of themselves keep our
34:41
Speaker 2: activities anonymous. Speaking to a House of Commons Select Committee
34:48
Speaker 2: last week, Digital Minister for Digital Government and Data Ian
34:51
Speaker 2: Murray was defending the government's decision not to publish the
34:55
Speaker 2: budgeted costs of its plans to build digital IDs for
34:58
Speaker 2: every citizen. That's according to the this article in the register.
35:02
Speaker 2: All the links to these articles will be in the
35:04
Speaker 2: show notes. He said to the Select committee. In terms
35:07
Speaker 2: of cost, it's to be determined by what the system
35:10
Speaker 2: looks like and that can only really be measured after
35:13
Speaker 2: the consultation has been closed and analyzed, And he said
35:17
Speaker 2: that the cost of the system will depend on what
35:19
Speaker 2: the system looks like. Digital inclusion. He said, all the
35:22
Speaker 2: bits that are attached to digital ID and also the
35:25
Speaker 2: use cases from other government departments in terms of both
35:28
Speaker 2: the costs of having the system, the cost of running
35:30
Speaker 2: the system, and the savings that are subsequently made from
35:33
Speaker 2: having a much more efficient system will contribute, is what
35:37
Speaker 2: he was applying. So that's good, isn't it. Now we
35:44
Speaker 2: should remember, of course, the unimaginable cost of tests and
35:47
Speaker 2: trace and the fact that it failed to deliver central
35:51
Speaker 2: promise of averting another lockdown according to the UK Parliament website. Well,
35:57
Speaker 2: what were they talking about was a thirty seven billions
36:00
Speaker 2: over three years for that and of course this roleout
36:05
Speaker 2: is going to be a bigger project than that one,
36:07
Speaker 2: so you know, it is ridiculous to imagine what this
36:12
Speaker 2: is going to cost. And then finally on this then
36:15
Speaker 2: let's just mention electronic travel authorizations, which are of course
36:19
Speaker 2: related to digital ID, because visitors, according to the government
36:24
Speaker 2: now from eighty five nationalities including the United States, Canada
36:28
Speaker 2: and France who do not need a visa, will not
36:31
Speaker 2: be able to legally travel to the UK without an
36:33
Speaker 2: electronic travel authorization. From the twenty fifth of February twenty
36:37
Speaker 2: twenty six. Now, ETAs have been around for quite some
36:40
Speaker 2: time now this year, from this year, earlier this year,
36:44
Speaker 2: but they haven't been enforced. They'll only start to be
36:47
Speaker 2: actually enforced in February, and from that point forward, if
36:50
Speaker 2: you turn up at a border control point without an ETA,
36:54
Speaker 2: then you will not be able to get access to
36:56
Speaker 2: the country, is what they're saying. And they're saying that
36:58
Speaker 2: this is a significant step forward towards digitizing the immigration system,
37:04
Speaker 2: paves away for a contactless border in the future. That's good,
37:08
Speaker 2: isn't it.
37:10
Speaker 5: It's just so so efficient, Yes, contactless border.
37:18
Speaker 1: Let's move on to gender issues, Diane.
37:22
Speaker 4: Yes, thanks, Mike. I just wanted to cover something that
37:25
Speaker 4: has come out in the last few days based on
37:27
Speaker 4: some new clinical trials that are being funded to the
37:31
Speaker 4: cost of over ten million pounds to the taxpayers. So
37:34
Speaker 4: let's start with this tweet that came out on Saturday
37:37
Speaker 4: by west streeting, the House Secretary, and he said, children
37:40
Speaker 4: with gender incongruence and we'll go into what that means
37:43
Speaker 4: deserves safe, compassionate and effective care. That healthcare must always
37:47
Speaker 4: be led by evidence. The Cast review, which basically said
37:51
Speaker 4: that we don't have evidence to support the idea of
37:53
Speaker 4: transitioning gender, especially for boys and girls. There isn't enough
37:58
Speaker 4: evidence that puberty blockers are seeing if are beneficial for
38:01
Speaker 4: children with gender incongruence. Doctor Cass recommended a ban on
38:05
Speaker 4: prescribing them and a clinical trial to build that evidence.
38:08
Speaker 4: King's College London has now launched that trial. So these
38:11
Speaker 4: are the trials that I want to talk about today. Basically,
38:14
Speaker 4: he's in support of the puberty blockers for children. James
38:19
Speaker 4: s is, however, as a psychotherapist who has spoken out
38:22
Speaker 4: quite a bit about going against the idea of children
38:26
Speaker 4: changing gender, which of course we know that we can't
38:28
Speaker 4: based on biological reality. And James said that he had
38:31
Speaker 4: received footage of West treading an NHS LGBT conference which
38:36
Speaker 4: happened back in September. And so here's a short clip
38:40
Speaker 4: from that footage that he received of West treating talking
38:44
Speaker 4: about this issue.
38:46
Speaker 10: So I'm definitely listening, but I would accept the person
38:51
Speaker 10: that's normal perception. And secondly, in terms of the listening,
38:56
Speaker 10: that people have not seen action that suggests that what's
39:00
Speaker 10: in it, And in some areas that's because I am
39:03
Speaker 10: constrained by the clinical advice and the evidence, and particularly
39:08
Speaker 10: when you're in this job, sometimes you do have to
39:11
Speaker 10: say no to things, even when it makes you feel
39:14
Speaker 10: really uncomfortable.
39:15
Speaker 4: And it has not sat.
39:16
Speaker 10: Easily with me at all that there are young people
39:20
Speaker 10: who said that described to me how they feel about
39:25
Speaker 10: not being able to access pubity blockers or the risk
39:27
Speaker 10: of not being able to access pubity blockers in the future,
39:31
Speaker 10: and it's been distressing and believed to hear.
39:37
Speaker 4: So obviously we can hear there that West Reading does
39:39
Speaker 4: not agree with the results of the cast review and
39:42
Speaker 4: in what's to find otherwise, So what we can see
39:45
Speaker 4: now is that these studies have been funded through Keigs College, London. Now,
39:50
Speaker 4: when you heard gender incongruents, we've also usually heard the
39:53
Speaker 4: term gender dysphoria. The reason that this term in congruence
39:57
Speaker 4: is now being used is I think it's a bit
39:58
Speaker 4: of a kind of a filter of ask for what's
40:00
Speaker 4: actually going on, because a lot of people don't know
40:02
Speaker 4: what this term means. But as of twenty twenty two,
40:05
Speaker 4: gender incongruence is an official term through that Well Health Organization.
40:10
Speaker 4: It is now part of the International Statistical Classification of
40:13
Speaker 4: Diseases and Related Health Problems or ICD eleven saying that
40:17
Speaker 4: it includes new changes to reflect modern understanding of sexual
40:21
Speaker 4: health and gender identity. So essentially this is related to
40:27
Speaker 4: what we're saying. We can't use the former terms transsexualism,
40:30
Speaker 4: which was in ICD ten, we can't talk about gender
40:33
Speaker 4: identity sort of children, and we now have to use
40:35
Speaker 4: this term incongruence and has moved from away from mental
40:39
Speaker 4: and behavioral health disorders into conditions related to sexual health.
40:44
Speaker 4: Although the trials that we're going to be talking about
40:45
Speaker 4: are being led by a professor of file psychiatry, and
40:49
Speaker 4: this also says it reflects current knowledge that trans related
40:52
Speaker 4: and gender diverse identities are not conditions of mental ill
40:56
Speaker 4: health and that classifying them as such can cost stigma.
41:01
Speaker 4: Well okay, but that's not really what they're doing in
41:03
Speaker 4: the trials. The set of trials from King's Colleges, London
41:07
Speaker 4: is called Pathways, which is an acronym for puberty suppression
41:11
Speaker 4: and Transitional healthcare within Adaptive Youth Services, and there are
41:15
Speaker 4: several parts to the set of studies. The first one
41:18
Speaker 4: is called Pathwaysherden, which has started already earlier in the summer,
41:23
Speaker 4: which aims to understand the care needs and experiences of
41:26
Speaker 4: young people attending the NHS Children and Young People's Gender
41:30
Speaker 4: Services in England and how these develop and change with time.
41:34
Speaker 4: The study will last for five and a half years,
41:36
Speaker 4: will explore life experiences, quality of life, mental physical health
41:40
Speaker 4: as well as gender identity. These will be explored with
41:43
Speaker 4: questionnaires completed once per year over the course of the study,
41:46
Speaker 4: so more later on those questionnaires. They're a little bit concerning.
41:51
Speaker 4: So here's just some things directly taken from the funding
41:54
Speaker 4: proposal which is available freely online, saying that this is
41:58
Speaker 4: all to improve the understanding of the care needs, holistic
42:01
Speaker 4: development journeys of children young people attending gender services. This
42:05
Speaker 4: will include three thousand, six hundred participants over several years
42:09
Speaker 4: and they're doing interviews and questionnaires to understand the care
42:13
Speaker 4: options and how this influences the young people and their families.
42:17
Speaker 4: So this will last for quite a while. The second
42:19
Speaker 4: part is called Pathways Trial, which is the study that
42:22
Speaker 4: will express or sorry explore how puberty suppressing hormones impact
42:27
Speaker 4: the well being of young people with gender incongruents and
42:31
Speaker 4: how are they doing this well. They are using a
42:33
Speaker 4: clinical trial using a G and RH analogus, which is
42:37
Speaker 4: a medication or something that stimulates sort of hormonal information
42:44
Speaker 4: that is given into the body, and the one they're
42:47
Speaker 4: using in particular is something that is called dec of peptil,
42:52
Speaker 4: and this is the information is listed actually within the
42:55
Speaker 4: funding proposal and they are going to give these young
42:58
Speaker 4: people and this is mostly between ages twelve and up
43:01
Speaker 4: to sixteen, so up to fifteen years eleven months in age.
43:04
Speaker 4: This will be twenty two point five milligrams of an
43:07
Speaker 4: injection or a job six months six for over six months.
43:13
Speaker 4: Decapeptl is a medication that is used for a lot
43:16
Speaker 4: of different things. This particular dosage twenty two point five
43:19
Speaker 4: diograms in men is used to treat prostate cancer in
43:24
Speaker 4: children two years of age and older. It is used
43:28
Speaker 4: to treat puberty that it cures at a very young
43:30
Speaker 4: age before eight years in girls and ten years and boys,
43:33
Speaker 4: which is also known as central percosis puberty. So central
43:36
Speaker 4: precocious puberty is a different medical condition than children who
43:41
Speaker 4: seem to think that they need to become a boy
43:44
Speaker 4: if they're a girl, or vice versa. But this is
43:46
Speaker 4: what the trial is for to see if it will
43:49
Speaker 4: in some way affect them or help them with their
43:52
Speaker 4: mental health and general well being. This particular medication is
43:55
Speaker 4: also used for in vitro fertilization. It's used to treat
43:59
Speaker 4: women's health conditions such as fibrate tumors and endometriosis. It's
44:04
Speaker 4: used for a range of things for different people for
44:06
Speaker 4: different hormonal reasons. And this particular medication is made by
44:11
Speaker 4: a company that is called ibsen ips e in you
44:15
Speaker 4: can look up their website and what I found out
44:18
Speaker 4: and in particular with quote from their CEO called he
44:21
Speaker 4: is called David Low, and they talked about sustainability on
44:24
Speaker 4: their website, which is a bit odd saying that their
44:27
Speaker 4: commitment to sustainability is really important. This includes climate change
44:32
Speaker 4: and DEI. So diversity, equity and inclusion is important to
44:36
Speaker 4: their pharmaceutical company. So we see again ties with you
44:40
Speaker 4: in and will HAPPENAP forum and so on. The final
44:44
Speaker 4: the next part of the study, which is a separate
44:46
Speaker 4: part of Pathways, is called Pathways Connect. This will explore
44:50
Speaker 4: brain development and changes over time and young people with
44:53
Speaker 4: gender and congruents who are attending the gender service, and
44:56
Speaker 4: this will follow the people who are being offered the
44:59
Speaker 4: pubert the suppressing hormones or puberty blockers in the pathways trial,
45:03
Speaker 4: so that is a separate part of it. So who
45:05
Speaker 4: is funding the study, Well, the NAHR, which is the
45:08
Speaker 4: main sort of funding agency in the UK. Research Council's
45:12
Speaker 4: government funding for National Institute of Health and Care Research
45:15
Speaker 4: is the full name of it. This is as they
45:18
Speaker 4: say here on their website and did by the public,
45:20
Speaker 4: So your tax money is going to pay for the study. Interestingly,
45:24
Speaker 4: they have a page on their website after the Supreme
45:27
Speaker 4: Court of ruling on the legal definition of sex came
45:30
Speaker 4: out earlier this year saying they were reviewing relevant policies
45:34
Speaker 4: and approaches to make sure that they are up to
45:36
Speaker 4: date with today's legal clarification of the position in the UK. However,
45:40
Speaker 4: look at what they're funding now, looking to see if
45:43
Speaker 4: children can change gender or whatever through puberty blockers. It
45:47
Speaker 4: is also funded and supported by the NHF South London
45:50
Speaker 4: and Mosley Foundation Trust, which they say provide the widest
45:54
Speaker 4: range of mental health services in the UK, so we're
45:58
Speaker 4: still seeing a mix of mental and physical health going on.
46:01
Speaker 4: These two are combined together in a partnership called the
46:04
Speaker 4: National Research Collaboration Program or the NRCP, which is what
46:08
Speaker 4: combines NHS trusts in NHS England, in particular the Department
46:12
Speaker 4: Health of Social Care which is West Readings or part
46:15
Speaker 4: of the government and other so called research experts with
46:19
Speaker 4: the aim of redee time required to design studies and
46:21
Speaker 4: gain frond of the agreement, which means that they didn't
46:23
Speaker 4: have to wait for months or longer that the most
46:26
Speaker 4: research studies do. The PI the principal investigator, the head
46:30
Speaker 4: of this entire project. Her name is Professor Emily Simonoff.
46:33
Speaker 4: As I said, she's professor of Child adolescent Psychology Psychiatry,
46:38
Speaker 4: not psychology psychiatry, which is the actual area of mess
46:41
Speaker 4: that looks at mental disorders in King's Condent College, London.
46:46
Speaker 4: Her personal profile on the website list that she has
46:50
Speaker 4: expertise related to several unsustainable development goals, which most academics do.
46:55
Speaker 4: Nowadays they are required to do so, I used to
46:57
Speaker 4: be required to do so. She's got several of them
47:00
Speaker 4: instead of believe eight that she says that her research
47:03
Speaker 4: works on. In particular, the primary way that they're going
47:07
Speaker 4: to be evaluating how the study is going is those
47:11
Speaker 4: questionnaires and interviews that I mentioned earlier. This one is
47:14
Speaker 4: called Kids Screen ten, which is a health questionnaire for
47:17
Speaker 4: each children and young people, particularly fourteen years old, and
47:21
Speaker 4: this is a very short set of questions asking if
47:23
Speaker 4: they felt well, are they fit, do they feel like
47:26
Speaker 4: they have energy? Are they sad? Are they lonely? Time
47:29
Speaker 4: for yourself? Do you have enough things? Free time? And
47:32
Speaker 4: things do in your free time? Have your parents treated you?
47:35
Speaker 4: Are your friends fun? Are you having fun in school?
47:37
Speaker 4: Et cetera. So this is the main primary instrument that
47:40
Speaker 4: they're going to be using to determine these gender identity issues.
47:45
Speaker 4: A couple of the other smaller questionnaire a bits quickly
47:48
Speaker 4: is one called gender identity Where they are It's a
47:51
Speaker 4: two item measure developed for this particular study, and they
47:55
Speaker 4: are asking them what is their current expression of gender identity?
48:00
Speaker 4: Is it mainly a girl, neither a boy nor a
48:01
Speaker 4: girl definitely a boy, mainly a boy, et cetera. And
48:04
Speaker 4: also a question related to how do you identify as
48:09
Speaker 4: your what gender do you identify with? So is it
48:12
Speaker 4: this gender, transgender, non binary, a gender, gender fluid, gender,
48:16
Speaker 4: queer to spirit and other? They will off be asking
48:20
Speaker 4: about sexual attraction, and this is for young people ages
48:24
Speaker 4: twelve years and older. Who are you attracted to prefer
48:27
Speaker 4: not to say male, female, males and females neither not
48:30
Speaker 4: sure and this will be asked again to children from
48:34
Speaker 4: twelve to fifteen years old. So finally a bit of
48:37
Speaker 4: hope at the end. Here James ass who I mentioned earlier,
48:40
Speaker 4: who exposed that video from West Streeting. He has said
48:43
Speaker 4: that he is going to bring this to court, that
48:45
Speaker 4: there is a trial that he is planning on. He says,
48:48
Speaker 4: there's funding, there's a press release that he's released which
48:51
Speaker 4: you can see on his Twitter account here x account,
48:55
Speaker 4: and he says if this is not stopped immediately because
48:58
Speaker 4: of how dangerous and ethical, you will be bringing it
49:01
Speaker 4: to court along with his colleague Rabelle. So let's hope
49:04
Speaker 4: that that is successful.
49:05
Speaker 2: Mate, Thanks Dan, thank you for that. Okay, let's move
49:11
Speaker 2: on then to the world Lucifer. Well, yes, is the
49:15
Speaker 2: Una cult I couldn't possibly go.
49:19
Speaker 8: Is there something going on here like the people aren't
49:22
Speaker 8: quite aware of but you might be familiar with the
49:24
Speaker 8: Lusist trusts. So this organization was founded in in the
49:28
Speaker 8: early nineteen twenties. It was originally called the Lucifer Publishing Company.
49:33
Speaker 8: It was founded by Alice Bailey, one of the key
49:36
Speaker 8: protagonists in the New Age movement, and They are very
49:42
Speaker 8: heavily linked into the United Nations and the whole drive
49:45
Speaker 8: towards global governance, and they actually have consultative status with
49:48
Speaker 8: the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations ECOSOC.
49:53
Speaker 8: And they have just commissioned a piece of music by
49:58
Speaker 8: a guy called Jazz Coleman, who's a British composer who
50:02
Speaker 8: used to be in the post punk group The Killing Joke.
50:05
Speaker 8: And I came across this over the weekend via Geopolitics
50:09
Speaker 8: an Empire, and this this amazing video clip of him
50:13
Speaker 8: talking about his new work commissioned by the Lucist Trust.
50:16
Speaker 5: Have a listen.
50:18
Speaker 11: As always, like with Killing Joke, and especially with this work,
50:25
Speaker 11: there's two essential meanings. There's a hidden meaning and there's
50:34
Speaker 11: this simple meaning for the majority of people. What I
50:40
Speaker 11: wanted to achieve with this work was to mark the
50:43
Speaker 11: transition from my former self to my future self. And
50:51
Speaker 11: hence the work starts out with the words let the
50:57
Speaker 11: Light descend into the hearts of men, and as I
51:00
Speaker 11: pointed out before, this is the official text of the
51:03
Speaker 11: United Nations. The work ends, of course with the Great
51:08
Speaker 11: Invocation and the complete text of the United Nations work
51:15
Speaker 11: called the Great Invocation, which indicates the direction that I
51:21
Speaker 11: intend to go for the remainder of my life, which
51:25
Speaker 11: is to work with, alongside, and to be part of
51:32
Speaker 11: the United Nations structure, because I firmly believe that this
51:40
Speaker 11: is the only way we are going to achieve universal
51:42
Speaker 11: human rights on this planet. So this is the way
51:46
Speaker 11: I began and have ended this great work, the Great Invocation,
51:50
Speaker 11: which is of course the music of killing Joke, but
51:54
Speaker 11: with a completely different meaning attached to it.
52:01
Speaker 8: Totally normal, Yes, totally normal. That was Jazz Coleman talking
52:05
Speaker 8: about Magnet Invocatios as a piece of music he's created,
52:09
Speaker 8: which you can go and listen to. We put a
52:10
Speaker 8: link to it in the show notes. Go and check
52:12
Speaker 8: it out. It's quite tuneful actually, but very odd it
52:15
Speaker 8: like the layers of meaning. We'll also put a link
52:18
Speaker 8: to the album notes which I've got here. I'll just
52:20
Speaker 8: put out a few of the kind of choice points right,
52:22
Speaker 8: just to reiterate this is coming down from the UN system.
52:27
Speaker 8: He is part of the UN system. He's dedicating his
52:30
Speaker 8: life to being involved in the un right. And he's
52:34
Speaker 8: talking about this in the context of a sixth extinction
52:38
Speaker 8: period where global society is radically rearranging itself via mass
52:43
Speaker 8: centralization for its own survival. Apparently that's what's happening right now.
52:47
Speaker 8: He calls it a Babbel moment, as in the Tower
52:50
Speaker 8: of Babel in ancient Babylon. He's talking about the fragmentation
52:54
Speaker 8: of individualism leading to a more homogenized global collectivist society.
52:59
Speaker 8: Posts them offocracy, the regeneration of guy, the introduction of
53:03
Speaker 8: smart cities, a planetary hive mind, world citizenship being the
53:07
Speaker 8: goal of the enlightened and megasocial transformation. More references to Babbel,
53:13
Speaker 8: the idea that we're going to uncover new gods and
53:17
Speaker 8: hidden masters, the restoration of the ancient mysteries, and the
53:23
Speaker 8: Roshi Khruscian tradition he talks about in quite some detail.
53:27
Speaker 8: And then he directly references the civilizing Sumerian Babylonian influence
53:32
Speaker 8: of a system that still secretly functions today, the thirty
53:36
Speaker 8: six transnational ruling super Lodges referred to as er Lodges
53:40
Speaker 8: denoting their Babylonian providence, of which such notables as Mahattma
53:45
Speaker 8: Gandhi have been members. Apparently that's what's driving this whole
53:49
Speaker 8: un agenda.
53:51
Speaker 5: It's quite an eye opener.
53:52
Speaker 2: I think we'll talk about that an extra two I
53:54
Speaker 2: think so with that, Okay, Sandy, let's come back to
53:58
Speaker 2: you then. And COP thirty as well. It has not succeeded,
54:04
Speaker 2: shall we say?
54:07
Speaker 7: Interesting? No, you know, United Nations Conference of the Parties.
54:11
Speaker 7: You know, it fell short of a lot of its goals.
54:14
Speaker 7: Now ed Millerband in this Telegraph article, it's a step
54:21
Speaker 7: forward despite the lack of fossil fuel deals. Well, he
54:26
Speaker 7: looked increasingly stressed last week at the COP thirty in
54:29
Speaker 7: bellm in Brazil. And yes, it did fall short of
54:33
Speaker 7: many of its targets. And was it successful, Well, it
54:36
Speaker 7: depends how you what you mean by success. If keeping
54:41
Speaker 7: the international climate process alive and maintaining consensus and securing
54:46
Speaker 7: tangible adaptation finance, and yes, it achieved some useful outcomes.
54:52
Speaker 7: They made a decision to at least triple adaptation finance
54:55
Speaker 7: by twenty thirty five, more money thrown at climate change. However,
54:59
Speaker 7: if success means delivering the bold emissions cuts and fossil
55:03
Speaker 7: fuel phase out roadmap and financial clarity they needed to
55:07
Speaker 7: meet the climate emergency head on, then COP thirty fell
55:10
Speaker 7: significantly short of its goals. With dwindling delegates and other challenges,
55:16
Speaker 7: the conference didn't exactly go smoothly. On November the twentieth,
55:20
Speaker 7: the penultonate day of the conference, a fire broke out
55:24
Speaker 7: in the venue of COP thirty the Blue Zone pavilions
55:28
Speaker 7: in Bellm. The fire force the evacuation of the conference venue.
55:31
Speaker 7: Around thirteen people were treated for smoke in healeth in elation.
55:35
Speaker 7: The fire was reportedly controlled in about six minutes, but
55:38
Speaker 7: the venue remained closed for approximately seven hours before reopening.
55:43
Speaker 7: According to reports, the cause is suspected to be an
55:46
Speaker 7: electrical fall, short circuit or overloading of power in one
55:50
Speaker 7: of the pavilions. The incident added to the logistical and
55:53
Speaker 7: operational circumstances of the COP thirty venue and it's insign
55:59
Speaker 7: you know, just the infrastructure wasn't really up to scratch.
56:03
Speaker 7: There were challenges also from the indigenous community regarding their
56:07
Speaker 7: land rights and the destruction of their land not only
56:10
Speaker 7: by large corporations, but also the infrastructure that the conference
56:14
Speaker 7: inflicted on the small Amazonian city of Belem. And on
56:18
Speaker 7: this article from Lemonde, COP thirty presents an existential issue
56:23
Speaker 7: for indigenous people or yes it does now Indigenous groups,
56:28
Speaker 7: including the man Munduruku, staged peaceful protests, for example, blocking
56:35
Speaker 7: the main entrance to the Blue Zone on November fourteenth.
56:40
Speaker 7: They protested about activities threatening their territories. Large marches took
56:46
Speaker 7: place on the fifteenth, and thousands converged on the Great
56:49
Speaker 7: People's March in Belem, drawing attention to the indigenous rights,
56:53
Speaker 7: forest protection, and calling for more ambitious Conference of the parties.
56:57
Speaker 7: Some indigenous protesters stormed or attempted to enter the restricted
57:01
Speaker 7: Blue Zone, demanding greater representation and voice. A confrontation was
57:06
Speaker 7: reported where security guards were injured. Now I've got a
57:09
Speaker 7: little video of this, and they're basically wanting to They're
57:14
Speaker 7: demanding the stopping of the logging and the and all
57:17
Speaker 7: of the infrastructure that the big corporations are doing. They're
57:21
Speaker 7: saying they're the ones that suffer when the crops don't grow,
57:26
Speaker 7: and they're saying that they're going to stay until the
57:28
Speaker 7: president actually comes out and speaks to them. We want
57:31
Speaker 7: him to bring back, you know, our rights, so he's
57:35
Speaker 7: you know, they they they're not a happy bunch, these
57:38
Speaker 7: indigenous people of There were large cues because people had
57:43
Speaker 7: to go in from different entrances into the into the
57:46
Speaker 7: they were forced to use a side entrance to resume
57:49
Speaker 7: their negotiations and all together it was quite disruptive. So
57:55
Speaker 7: you know what were they demanding, You know that they
57:57
Speaker 7: want a higher participation in COPS thirty. They did this year,
58:02
Speaker 7: get a better representation than most conferences. However, many feel
58:07
Speaker 7: the formal outcomes still fall sort of giving them real
58:09
Speaker 7: power or structural change. For example, one of the indigenous
58:13
Speaker 7: activists said, the COP and the UN system are not
58:17
Speaker 7: working for you. They have never really worked for you,
58:19
Speaker 7: and today they are falling failing you at a historic scale.
58:24
Speaker 7: So it's interesting they you know what, with the fire
58:30
Speaker 7: and the protests, it's almost indicative of how the conference
58:34
Speaker 7: really quite it really did have its challenges, and it's
58:37
Speaker 7: not just about greenhouse gasses and about the land and
58:40
Speaker 7: the power, you know, it's about the people's voices that count.
58:44
Speaker 7: The fact that Indigenous people in the Amazon felt compelled
58:47
Speaker 7: to storm the venue say something about the perceived gap
58:50
Speaker 7: between rhetoric and reality, and the fire instance is symbolic hosts,
58:54
Speaker 7: you know, it was really about infrastructural or safety issues
58:57
Speaker 7: undermine their credibility because the event was all about risks,
59:02
Speaker 7: resilience and preparing for climate emergencies. But there it was.
59:05
Speaker 7: It was all happening right there in their own conference.
59:09
Speaker 7: So anyway, one of the other things that they announced
59:13
Speaker 7: is that Australia has backed out of the top thirty
59:16
Speaker 7: one next year, and the conference of the parties were
59:21
Speaker 7: very disappointed that Australia had backed out. They were just
59:25
Speaker 7: you know, they apparently Turkey is now taking up the
59:28
Speaker 7: challenge and alban easy backed down against Erduwan for all
59:33
Speaker 7: sorts of reasons, which I'm still not clear about. I've
59:35
Speaker 7: got to look into that, but apparently it's all happening
59:39
Speaker 7: in Turkey next year. So all in all, not a
59:41
Speaker 7: great conference.
59:43
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm looking forward to Turkey next year and
59:45
Speaker 2: we can have another laugh. Sanday, thank you very much
59:48
Speaker 2: for that. Okay, Dan, let's just very quickly finish with
59:52
Speaker 2: the question of what happens when we go to the
59:55
Speaker 2: bank these days.
59:58
Speaker 4: Well, that's a good question because not many of us
1:00:01
Speaker 4: can go to the bank anymore because they're closing branches
1:00:04
Speaker 4: all over everywhere and cutting hours of branches, as we
1:00:07
Speaker 4: probably have all experienced. So I just happened to find
1:00:10
Speaker 4: this report that was published earlier this month by the
1:00:13
Speaker 4: Boston Consulting Group. It's called from Branches to Bots? Will
1:00:17
Speaker 4: AI agents transform retail banking? Well, what's happening is that
1:00:21
Speaker 4: AI is going to be replacing people. I certainly don't
1:00:25
Speaker 4: have any branches anymore, and I guess you don't need
1:00:27
Speaker 4: branches if you're just going to have bots running it.
1:00:29
Speaker 4: And an example of what they said we might be
1:00:32
Speaker 4: able to see happening in the future is that your
1:00:35
Speaker 4: bot has been tracking everything that you spend and everything
1:00:38
Speaker 4: that you do. And then a bot says, for example,
1:00:40
Speaker 4: and this is from the report, I noticed, you've spent
1:00:43
Speaker 4: twelve percent less on dining out this month compared with last.
1:00:46
Speaker 4: If you keep this pace, you'll reach your travel savings
1:00:48
Speaker 4: goal a month earlier. Want me to direct today's difference
1:00:51
Speaker 4: into your vacation fund? Well, that's really not up to me.
1:00:55
Speaker 4: That's apparently up to the bot now. And this really
1:00:58
Speaker 4: kind of is a scary thing because this was something
1:01:00
Speaker 4: that I saw over the weekend as well, that chet GPT,
1:01:03
Speaker 4: despite its best efforts, has some really terrible inaccuracies. And
1:01:08
Speaker 4: here we have a patient at a hospital bed asking
1:01:11
Speaker 4: the doctor, but why is the scar on the left.
1:01:13
Speaker 4: If the appendix is on the right and the chet
1:01:15
Speaker 4: GPT surgeon is saying you're absolutely right, let me try
1:01:19
Speaker 4: that one more time. So I just hope this doesn't
1:01:21
Speaker 4: happen to our bank accounts when a does in that
1:01:23
Speaker 4: it says that we have a negative balance and we
1:01:25
Speaker 4: actually have a positive one.
1:01:26
Speaker 2: Make I think this is only a matter of time, Dan,
1:01:30
Speaker 2: And this is one of the things that people should
1:01:33
Speaker 2: be most aware of, the fact that chat GPT or
1:01:38
Speaker 2: any of these other AI bought attempts to assuage our
1:01:41
Speaker 2: egos by telling us that we're right, or that we're
1:01:44
Speaker 2: very insightful or these kinds of comments.
1:01:46
Speaker 1: Back from it, it's encouraging, it's drawing us in. It's
1:01:48
Speaker 1: encouraging us to get that head of approval from something
1:01:54
Speaker 1: that's artificial. It's training us to be accepting of that
1:01:59
Speaker 1: entire system.
1:02:01
Speaker 2: So yeah, we'll be talking more about that an extra
1:02:03
Speaker 2: as well, but we have to finish there for today.
1:02:05
Speaker 1: I'm going to say thank you to Sandy and Dan
1:02:08
Speaker 1: and you bet.
1:02:09
Speaker 2: Of course, if you're a UK column members, stick on
1:02:12
Speaker 2: the live stream and we'll see you in a couple
1:02:14
Speaker 2: of minutes. Otherwise, enjoy Jeremy and Carl tonight and the
1:02:19
Speaker 2: interview tomorrow.
1:02:21
Speaker 1: We'll see one pm as usual on Wednesday for another
1:02:23
Speaker 1: news program. See you then, Bye bye,