Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / The Duck Factory: Grasslands, Easements & Why Permanence Matters (Ep 771)

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The Duck Factory: Grasslands, Easements & Why Permanence Matters (Ep 771) · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• 0:02
  Johann Walker: This fella was committed to the idea of permanent easements from a little different perspective than I was as a biologist, and I thought both of those perspectives are useful for understanding why permanence is a key part of the agreement.
• 0:16
  Mike Brasher: I think that's something that haven't really realized it or or internalized it from a rancher's perspective. When I buy a duck stand, I'm not only conserving habitat, I'm helping a rancher and their family preserve a way of life that for generations they have embraced and they're being phenomenal stewards of that landscape.
• 0:37
  VO: Can we do a mic check, please? Everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I'm your host, doctor Mike Brasher. I'm your host, Katie Burke. I'm your host, doctor Jerad Henson. And I'm your host, Matt Harrison. Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast, the only podcast about all things waterfowl. From hunting insights to science based discussions about ducks, geese, and issues affecting waterfowl and wetlands conservation in North America. The DU Podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
• 1:43
  Mike Brasher: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I am your host on this episode, doctor Mike Brasher, and I'm here with the third installment of our look at the regions meeting where we're talking with doctor Johann Johann Johann Johann, the director of operations for our Great Plains Regional Office up in Bismarck. That's a it's a pretty important area if you're a duck hunter. Ain't that right, Johann?
• 2:08
  Johann Walker: That's correct. We're right in the heart of the Prairie Pothole region up here where at least half of North America's ducks are hatched.
• 2:16
  Mike Brasher: How long have you worked, in that region? Like, are are you from there originally? You've been there most of your career within Ducks Unlimited, but just trying to get an idea of, like, how long have you been embedded within the the duck factory?
• 2:32
  Johann Walker: Well, I'll try not to go too far back, but my great great grandparents homesteaded in Eastern North Dakota in the eighteen eighties.
• 2:40
  Mike Brasher: Oh, wow.
• 2:40
  Johann Walker: I was born in Fargo. I grew up in Northern Minnesota for part of my childhood and Western Montana for a number of years and went up to Alaska and did some graduate school and found myself back in Bismarck in about 2004. I've been working out of the Great Plains Regional Office ever since. I have been a science director for this team, a programs director for the Prairie Pothole Region, and now I'm the director of operations for the Great Plains Region. So almost twenty two years here in Bismarck.
• 3:12
  Mike Brasher: So you've got all the knowledge. You've seen the good times, you've seen the bad times, and when I say good times and bad times, I'm talking about the wet times with abundant duck populations, and the dry times with low duck populations. You've been through it all in your twenty two years up there.
• 3:26
  Johann Walker: Absolutely. I've gone through some some drought cycles, although I'd say overall it's been far wetter during the time I've been working here than it was when I was younger, say in the eighties and early nineties when we really had severe drought up here.
• 3:41
  Mike Brasher: You are more of a in more administrator type position now as the director of operations there than when you were working as the director of conservation science and planning. Which do you like more? Do you do you miss being in the trenches on the science side of things, or do you enjoy more being able to help sort of navigate and and provide leadership across all of the wonderful staff, including the scientists that you have there in your region?
• 4:10
  Johann Walker: Yeah. That's a great question, and sort of I think the answer is I missed every job I've had. I've enjoyed them all, and, you know, missed certain aspects of being able to do science, and be involved in science, and be skilled at that. I mean, one of the things that happens as you take other jobs is you lose some of the skills you had. But also kind of like you just alluded to in the role I'm in now, I have the, you know, the privilege of working with a really impressive team of people, and and I don't have to parachute in and try to do anything because they're doing things way better than I ever did.
• 4:47
  And so it's a it's just great to be able to kind of guide that, use the skills I have now to connect the dots, and help with fundraising, and you know, transmit our successes and challenges in our priority landscapes. So this is a natural progression, and I just love all these jobs I've had, I guess.
• 5:07
  Mike Brasher: Well, you've done a wonderful job in every role that you've been in. I've always enjoyed working with you, and you you mentioned, that you in your current role, you get to highlight some of the successes and exciting projects and developments that are occurring across your region, and that's what we're here to talk about today. You know, we've spoken with Jeff McGrary and Jerry Holden already. Now now it's your turn, and we're gonna get Jamie on after after this to cover our other region. And so when we think about springtime in the Prairies, the the the number one question that I get this time of year, you probably do too, it's the first question I ask you whenever I first get on the phone with you here today, is, like, how are habitat conditions shaping up?
• 5:51
  And so you can start. I will add in a bit of a bit of flavor from some of the other messages that I've heard from people that have been up there recently. But what are you hearing? What are you seeing?
• 6:03
  Johann Walker: Well, I'd say just in a broad general sense in in the Dakotas and Montana Prairie Pothole region, we're wetter, especially in Central North Dakota and Northern South Dakota than we've been in five years or so. But, you know, it's yeah. I think we're starting to move in the right direction. We've had a few dry years. We had late precipitation, some snow, and a lot of rain in the last month, and that has attracted quite a few ducks.
• 6:33
  I've been hearing reports from people who live up here, so they know what a lot of ducks look like, saying they've seen ducks out there more than they had in the last few years. It is not probably in line with the peak years of 2015, 2016 for folks who remember that kind of wetness on the prairies. The Montana highline is still very dry and in drought, and the southern half of Eastern South Dakota, so Southeastern South Dakota is also pretty dry. But that sweet spot in the Central Dakotas is at least at average or better.
• 7:10
  Mike Brasher: I had a there have a coworker who returned from North Dakota. They were up there for a snow goose hunt maybe a couple of weeks ago, and he said that his observations and those of the people that he was hunting with were in line in in that part of the state with what you're describing. They said it's the most water they've seen in many years. They also said there are a lot of ducks that are settling on the available water in the Dakotas. Well, he said there are a lot of ducks on the water.
• 7:39
  I don't want to so I said settling, but that implies something different from a duck biology standpoint. That means these birds are are sort of establishing their their territories and kind of venturing out, you know, as as pairs across that landscape. He didn't say that. He just said there's a lot of ducks on the wetlands, and I I make that clarification because one of the other things that is happening this year is that is that the old man winter has held on for quite some time. And so in contrast to at least the last couple of years, we've had a a more delayed migration is at least my sense of it.
• 8:17
  So you've got these birds that are still making their way up, and some of them are holding up in North Dakota, and so there could be some of those birds that are that he saw on those wetlands that will make their way on up into Canada here over the next little while. Is it your sense based on what you're seeing that that, you know, that we do have it's it's a delayed migration compared to the last few years, but maybe it's more along the lines of a historical average?
• 8:43
  Johann Walker: Yeah. That's interesting because when you live here and it starts to melt off early, like March or even early April, you'll get birds, especially geese, moving up to the north and then moving back south when the weather turns on, which happened a few times this spring. You know, you'd hear white fronts and snow geese, which are long distance migrants coming over, then, you know, they'd be out in the fields, and then they'd be headed back south when the next snowstorm came. We had snowstorms into mid and late April. We had significant snow on Easter Sunday, so we were getting those kind of late wet snows that I'm more used to actually from the from the years of this earlier wet period.
• 9:26
  And, yeah, I think I think we're on kind of a average timing, you know, driving across the state a week ago or so, I saw some lone Drake pintails. I saw some lone Drake Mallards, which, you know, I tend to infer from that, and you are well schooled in this, Mike, that there might be a hen around sitting on some eggs or looking for a nest site.
• 9:48
  Mike Brasher: Yep. That's good to hear. And and the other thing, just a little additional detail on the why this timing is important is that last year and the year before, whenever we had an early migration and when those birds made it back like pintails, mallards made it to the prairies, they were still pretty dry. We had an a late influx of rain and maybe snow each of the last two years, but a good percentage of that arrived after those early migrants had passed on through and made it all the way up into the Boreal. It's gonna be really interesting to see what's what the numbers come out to be this year because water has been in place, on the prairies as these birds, at least in parts of it, as these birds are getting back there.
• 10:31
  So I would expect a slightly different distribution of breeding ducks between the prairies and boreal forests than what we've seen the last few years. Do you think that's I'm I'm kinda I'm kinda describing things reasonable there, aren't I?
• 10:47
  Johann Walker: I think that that's a reasonable hypothesis and consistent with what we've seen. Right? You know, the idea that especially these later migrating species like blue wings, they're gonna be coming into better wetland conditions than those species have seen, if you'll forgive me, in the last few years. And so you're liable to stop a few birds, and, of course, blue wings will just keep looking around the prairies. They won't go all the way to the Boreal.
• 11:13
  But I I agree. I think that's what I expect. We'll see what the data says later this summer.
• 11:19
  Mike Brasher: So are you saying that the prairies are short stopping birds from getting to the Boreal Forest? Is that what I'm I'm hearing? Are we gonna start applying that terminology to your neck of the woods up there, or do you don't want me to go there?
• 11:30
  Johann Walker: I think I would say that when the prairies are dry, the birds are willing to fly farther to find water, but the birds are gonna stop where they find water, doctor.
• 11:40
  Mike Brasher: That's right. Birds can move around. They find them places where they wanna be, whatever we wanna call it. So alright. Well, you and I could continue to talk about ducks and duck habitat for the rest of this episode if we wanted to, but I wanna shift and talk about conservation because that's we we do conservation for the birds, and then they provide a whole bunch of benefits beyond that.
• 12:00
  But let's talk about the conservation engine that you guys have have running up there, and this is an opportunity for you to talk about any new conservation, high priority conservation programs or opportunities or partnerships that we've got going on up there, and and, of course, we'll restrict this conversation to what's happening in The US side of the Prairies. We have to go talk with our partners up in Canada, DU Canada, to to get an update on, you know, programs and and key developments for them, but what are the highlights? What are the exciting things coming out of your region right now?
• 12:34
  Johann Walker: Well, it's a fun question and and sort of difficult to narrow down, Mike. I mean, we are this team of about a 100 conservation professionals supported by our development and event fundraising and policy teams, we're doing some really impressive conservation from my perspective, putting about 300,000 acres a year out there on the ground across all seven states. So not just in the Prairie Pothole region, but also in the rainwater basin and flat river priority landscapes, the marshes of Central Kansas, and those migration landscapes, the Playa Lakes in Western Kansas and Eastern Colorado. So we are covering a lot of ground out there and putting a lot of acres on the ground, and some of the highlights, I mean, are we're really focused on protection in the prairies, and so our strong partnership with the Fish and Wildlife Service continues to crank out 80 to 90, sometimes a 100,000 permanently protected acres a year with really strong ongoing demand from landowners for those working lands, permanent easements that protect breeding habitat from conversion to cropland indefinitely. We have some philanthropists, I mean, I think a lot of your listeners are aware that the Cox Foundation and Jim Cox Kennedy in particular have been incredibly generous with us.
• 14:02
  We've been able to use some of those recent gifts that put 218 grassland easements out on the landscape in Eastern North Dakota in areas that host 80 to a 100 breeding pairs per square mile, some of the highest densities on the continent, and that's about a 56,000 acre achievement there, just directly with those funds. We got another 71 offers out there, that would be another about 26,000 acres that we're negotiating with landowners. We'll probably have half of those signed and the other half kind of will peter out. We usually try to get about twice as many offers out, about half of them get accepted. So we're nudging up against, you know, 75, 80,000 acres just with that one really generous and transformative gift alone.
• 14:59
  We have many other donors in that easement partnership here in the Prairies, and it's just really impressive. I mean, we're accumulating half a million acres in five or six years these days, so that's a big deal.
• 15:14
  Mike Brasher: Johann, there's no more important message than the one that you're just talking about, and so I want to amplify that and and unpack it a little bit because the work that we do in the Prairies is at the top of the list when you look at the things that we have to do, want to do, and are continuing to do to achieve our conservation mission, our organizational mission of abundant duck populations, waterfowl populations for generations to come. Wetlands sufficient to fill the skies with ducks today, tomorrow, and forever is our vision statement. And and so there is nothing that we can do more important than permanently protecting the wetlands and grasslands up there in the prairies, and and so I want you to do a couple of things. First, I want you to to describe for people what that looks like. When we say we're putting easements on, let's let's don't worry about the the legal aspect of it, but what does that mean when we say that we've gotten you know, we're we're permanently securing those wetlands and grasslands through these these various easements, the majority of which I think will go through the US Fish and Wildlife Service Small Wetlands Acquisition Program, like, unpack that for people in in layperson terms, what's that mean?
• 16:31
  Johann Walker: Sure. Well, I'll I'll start with, for someone who's really unfamiliar with this landscape up here, this is a privately owned agricultural landscape period. So the prairies are incredibly important for duck production. They're also incredibly important for agriculture. A lot of North America's green and cattle beef are produced up in this part of the world, and 90 plus percent of it is in private ownership.
• 17:03
  So the conservation that goes on the ground up here has to be a partnership between those individual agricultural producers, those farmers and ranchers, and conservation organizations or government agencies like the Fish and Wildlife Service. One of the strongest partnerships that's evolved between those parties is this permanent easement program. You called it the small wetlands acquisition program, the brainchild of Fish and Wildlife Service staff in the nineteen fifties who were watching wetland drainage and cropland conversion at rates never before seen, and they thought, we've got to do something or we'll never be able to retain the capacity of this landscape to produce ducks and continue on this agricultural expansion pathway. Some of us believe you can do both to an extent, and so those agreements, Mike, basically say for a one time payment of part of the land value, a landowner can agree to never plow up the grassland or drain the wetlands on a grassland site. They can sell that right, that one right out of their many private property rights just like if they sold their mineral rights.
• 18:22
  They can sell the right to plow and the right to drain. Similarly on a piece of cropland that has a lot of high value wetlands embedded in it, they can take a payment to agree never to drain, fill, or burn those wetlands, And that's a partial payment on just the wet acres at about 80% of the land value or so on average. That easement that's written is then attached to the deed and it moves with the land for every subsequent owner. Now in some cases, that's there's a little bit of a discount on land value. For example, I've had ranchers tell me in Central South Dakota, I really love grass easements because I can't afford to buy unprotected grass.
• 19:10
  It sells at cropland prices, and I like to run cat. So it's a good deal in many ways. It allows people to free up capital to bring that next generation into their operation, and the most important thing, the kind of genius of it is that for the most part, it's what we call minimally restrictive. That is someone who's got their land and pasture and signs one of these agreements, the only thing that might be a change for them in terms of the way they run their cattle operation is some of their pastures that wouldn't be able to hay them before July 15. But other than that, no one tells you how many cows you can put out there, when you can put them out there.
• 19:52
  It just simply keeps the grass right side up and the wetlands wet and ready to be wet when they're dry. Same thing with the cropland easements and wetlands that are in them. You can plow through those wetlands and farm them when they're dry if they're dry enough. So in extended dry periods, farmers have return access to some of that land. When they're wet, that payment is designed to, you know, take care of that.
• 20:20
  But you're not having people tell you how to manage your operation. You're just basically agreeing not to drain or not to plow.
• 20:27
  Mike Brasher: Johann, I'm gonna ask you some questions that I occasionally get that I don't always know the answer to, and and so are there any easements that we that any easement programs or easement language that restricts that restricts folks from from farming wetlands even when they're dry. This this gets kinda well, not kinda, it gets to one of the things that you were talking about earlier in that any program that we offer needs to be attractive and appealing, for the landowner themselves. And so I know when we add any additional restrictions, it kinda ratchets that down a notch or two in terms of the appeal. But are there any easements that that totally restrict the cultivation of those of the wetland acres that are under the easement?
• 21:17
  Johann Walker: I'm not aware of anything like that in the Prairie Pothole region. It would be a second kind of agreement in the case where perhaps another program would come in with another payment and say, we would like to protect these sensitive wetlands even when they're dry. But I don't our team doesn't deliver programs like that right now because conversion and drain tile installation, so busting up of native sod, conversion to corn, and then subsequent installation of drain tile is happening fast enough that our main focus on the protection side is just keeping the base that we have. And our management agreements are more focused on improving grazing and making sure folks who run cattle can keep cattle on the landscape, and helping people come up with alternatives to tile drainage to manage water on their land, things like cover crops and other shorter term kind of agreements. One of the things I'll tell you about a perpetual agreement that I think is really important for people who are interested in this to understand is that when you choose perpetuity, that's a really long time.
• 22:30
  A permanent easement is generational, multigenerational in nature, and so the simpler and less restricted it can be while still keeping your key features in place, that's what you're really looking for.
• 22:44
  Mike Brasher: Johann, I want us to take a break now because I wanna come back and I wanna talk about where some of the funding comes for those easements. You've already mentioned one significant source in the the Cox Enterprises, Jim Kennedy and Alex Taylor, that entire group that helped make that, historical, gift contribution to to wetland and grassland protection, but there are other significant and very accessible sources of funding to help with this, and when I say accessible, I mean in a way that anyone and in and every hunter, that anyone can and every hunter does make a contribution. We're gonna get into that in a little bit more detail. We've got a few other things to talk about. So stay with us.
• 23:30
  We'll be right back, folks.
• 23:39
  VO: Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan and Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.
• 23:56
  Mike Brasher: Welcome back, everyone. I am here with doctor Johann Johann Walker, the director of operations for Ducks Unlimited's of funding, one of which is incredibly accessible to everyone that cares about this, oftentimes see comments on social media or whatever. Ducks Unlimited needs to be doing more work in the prairies. Ducks Unlimited needs to be focusing more on places that produce the ducks, and I don't think either of us would disagree with that, wish we could do 10 times as much as we are currently doing, and one of the limitations for the amount of work that we can do up there is availability of funding. Right?
• 24:45
  So there is one very significant source of funding that contributes to this easement program, and that is the Migratory Bird Hunting and Conservation Stamp Act, aka the duck stamp. Tell us how that works, Johann.
• 25:03
  Johann Walker: Absolutely, Mike. That's a pleasure, and it it really feels good for those of us who've been buying duck stamps for many years to know or even sign in some cases to learn that the money from those duck stamps that we buy, that federal duck stamp, $25 charge every year for every hunter 16 and older. Right? A portion of that goes directly to what's called the small wetlands acquisition program to acquire easements in the Prairie Pothole region. That's by and large what those dollars do, and they come straight from your duck stamps.
• 25:41
  So at Christmas time, I buy duck stamps for as many people in my family as I can afford. I buy as many duck stamps as I feel like makes sense during a year because I feel really good about that program having been close to it for many years and understanding what an effective tool it is, and I also know that money has gone straight there.
• 26:02
  Mike Brasher: That money also goes to help purchase refuge property in other locations as well. 98¢ out of every dollar that you spend on a duck stamp goes I think it goes into the migratory bird conservation fund, is that right, Johann?
• 26:16
  Johann Walker: That's correct.
• 26:17
  Mike Brasher: Yeah. And so then, as you said, a significant portion of that goes is sort of earmarked, if you will, for expenditure in the Prairie Pothole Region, The US side of the Prairie Pothole Region, for that program, for those permanent grassland and wetland easements. So if you're a duck hunter, you purchased a duck stamp or two or three or 10, you are making contributions directly to that program. You are helping us deliver on that most important act that we as waterfowl conservationists can be doing. And then also a portion of that can go to help help fund refuge acquisitions, public land acquisitions, and other outdoor opportunities and hunting opportunities in in places around The US.
• 26:57
  So if you're one of those folks that is asking the question, how can I do more to help Ducks Unlimited and others conserve the most important habitats for for ducks? It's simple, buy additional duck stamps. If you're if you're not at a level where you can make a significant philanthropic contribution through a conservation organization, everyone can purchase a duck stamp, can purchase additional duck stamps. I'm like you, I purchase five or 10 stamps a year depending on how I'm feeling, depending on what other contributions I've made through other avenues, but typically it's at least five and sometimes up to 10 duck stamps a year in addition to all the other kind of charity and philanthropy that we do for for our conservation. So we can never tell that message too many times about the value of duck stamps and how everyone can get involved.
• 27:49
  Whether you're a hunter or not, you know, that's still accessible to you, and encourage folks to do that. I want to talk about challenges and threats to that landscape, threats to easements, sort of writ large, Johann, you've talked about grassland conversion, you've talked about wetland drainage, those are still existing threats. There are some safeguards against or some some protections against those in in some areas, but but but talk about easements specifically because, you know, you and I were talking offline that from the time that that easements first came about as a conservation tool, a very effective conservation tool there in the Prairies, there have been folks that have kind of questioned that or maybe not looked too favorably upon those. So frame that up for people that that may not be aware of some of those challenges, some of those threats. Why would why would anyone be against a conservation easement, a voluntary conservation easement?
• 28:49
  Johann Walker: That's a really great question, and it it takes a it takes a minute to kind of scratching your head to answer the way you frame that question, Mike. Right? It's a completely voluntary agreement between a farmer or rancher typically standing on the ground and the Fish and Wildlife Service or a conservation organization. It's right in line with most concepts of private property rights. Some of you may have heard, you know, private property rights are like a bundle of sticks, and I can sell one of the sticks in my bundle if I choose to.
• 29:22
  So it's a pretty standard way of doing business. But at at higher levels and broader scales, it means that part of the landscape will not be available. Sometimes, as I talked about earlier, for the most profitable right at that time, land use. Right? So if in a few year period grain commodities are super high and some land could be farmed under current technology, but it's under an easement, then that land cannot be farmed because it's under that easement and that potential, you know, opportunity to profit is not there because of that protection.
• 30:07
  By the same token, there are many years when the uses that are still available on that land such as grazing livestock are profitable. So the land over time still makes money, still pays taxes, all the things that we think about, but folks are sometimes against that conservation easement, especially a few generations from when it was signed because they see a potential opportunity cost there, and they're discounting the value at the time the easement was signed to whoever signed it, and also the value long term for wildlife, for water, for people. Those are the things that kind of get pushed to the background in that discussion. So it's really almost an industrial level discussion between different sort of business sectors. You don't see that in the driveways, you see it at a little higher level.
• 31:00
  Mike Brasher: And and we are always on guard for for those types of threats and those type and and always engaged in those types of discussions to ensure that the value of these easements, for many different reasons, is represented, and and that we are among those at the table defending those easements, defending the landowners' rights to voluntary enter into these agreements. And and so occasionally, things you were telling me that sort of this is the the the opposition, the questioning of easement is always there at some level. Occasionally, they bubble up with a bit more energy, and kind of here recently, we've we've experienced some of that. What is and, like, what can you tell people to make them aware, make sure they know this is a high priority for us? How engaged are we?
• 31:58
  Are we doing enough? How seriously do we take some of these some of the threats to to this incredibly important tool?
• 32:07
  Johann Walker: So we take those threats very seriously, all the way to the top in this organization, and you can see that in recent front page columns in the magazine by our CEO. You can see that in the kinds of meetings that our policy team are setting up and attending in DC. I'm working on those things here in the region to make sure that the messages come through loud and clear. These are voluntary agreements between ag producers who are deeply interested in continuing to use them, and agencies and NGOs who are deeply interested in maintaining habitat value here. And we're ready to work hand in hand with those people at the farm gate and in the driveway to make sure that those things don't become an impediment to them making a living, and I can talk about that a little bit more later.
• 33:02
  But bottom line here, Mike, we're a 100% all in and so are our partners on making sure that these agreements are well stewarded into the future, and we're continuing to build that tradition so we're ready to pass it on to the next generation of conservation.
• 33:19
  Mike Brasher: And speaking of the next generation of conservationists, the other thing that, again, cannot overemphasize this, the incredible value. One of the one of the reasons why these why easements are so powerful is they they protect those habitat values in perpetuity. So from from from that standpoint, like, why why is that so important, like, to to us, to a program, and even to the landowners that are willing and interested? And as you said, we have a backlog of interested landowners that are wanting an offer for an easement on their property. Why is imperfect why is perpetual so important?
• 33:58
  Johann Walker: That's a great question and really an important one to engage, right, because that's a really long time no matter how you think about it, permanent easement. So I think from the habitat perspective, right, from the perspective of wanting to keep some of the things that are really hard to replace, it is very very difficult and expensive to restore even to baseline level natural prairie wetlands. It is really really difficult in tile drained landscapes to get back to the kind of hydrology that really is the best for producing ducks through restoration. It is also really difficult to buy into that system. The same thing, once pasture comes out, once grassland comes out and becomes cropland, it typically doesn't go back to grassland and definitely not in the way it would as a 10,000 year prairie community.
• 34:56
  So it doesn't have the same value. So keeping it in its current state, it's relatively undisturbed state, is really important biologically and for its ecosystem function. That's the scientist's answer. Now for farmers and ranchers and other folks out here who enjoy some diversity in their agricultural operations, because one thing you can count on when you farm a ranch up here, I'm told, is that nothing works all the time. So I'll tell you what an old rancher told me about grassland easements years ago.
• 35:31
  He said, well, Johann, you know, these easements in a way kind of protect us from ourselves when we sign them because we get that payment, we can maybe buy a little more land or pay down debt, but we also don't convert our land to cropland when prices are temporarily high. And that allows us to keep some pasture and a little bit of cropland and do a few different things where our livelihood on multiple foot is. I am extensively paraphrasing here, Mike, but the bottom line is this fella was committed to the idea of permanent easements from a little different perspective than I was as a biologist, and I thought both of those perspectives are useful for understanding why permanence is a key part of the agreement.
• 36:18
  Mike Brasher: I think that's something that I've not really I haven't emphasized, haven't really realized it or internalized it until hearing you tell that story from a rancher's perspective. When I buy a duck stamp, I'm not only conserving habitat for ducks, I'm helping a rancher, sort of a salt of the earth rancher and their family preserve a way of life that for generations they have embraced, and they're being phenomenal stewards of that landscape because the land stays in their hands. This isn't something that gets transferred to federal ownership or state ownership. We're helping ranchers. We're helping some of the, some of the most genuine people on this, in this country, and those that have a strong some of the strongest connections to that land and the resources it provides maintain that way of life.
• 37:12
  That's another thing to be thankful for and to be to to take pride in in knowing you're helping conserve. Right?
• 37:21
  Johann Walker: Mhmm. Very well said, Mike.
• 37:23
  Mike Brasher: That's that's pretty cool. And so if you don't want to buy a duck stamp for for the sake of ducks, buy it because you're helping preserve some of those rural communities in a way of life that they've embraced for so many years, and they're giving you something back and you're the generations that come behind us something as well. So that's a pretty the the duck stamp just became much more unique and and sort of fascinating in my mind, and I hope it did other people as well. So, Johann, I want to try to wrap up here because we've had you on for a while, and and I just want to ask you, like, what what other are there any other things that you wanted to highlight here before we go? Because I know we're probably getting short on time.
• 38:09
  Johann Walker: Absolutely. And, yeah, I think one of the one of the key things to understand about the Prairie Conservation Enterprise is we too seek diversity. So not only do we really our cornerstone is this partnership with the Fish and Wildlife Service delivering permanent easements, and however people contribute to that, we're always grateful. Buy Ducks Damps, contribute philanthropically, help us advocate for policies that bring public funding like North American Wetlands Conservation Act to that program. But at the same time, you kind of alluded to it earlier in the conversation, we're still losing more habitat to cropland expansion each year than we're able to protect, and we have strong strong motivations to maintain our strong relationships with ag producers, as we've talked about through this conversation.
• 39:01
  So we have really great partnerships that I haven't even talked about much, doing grassland and wetland restoration with state agencies and with USDA, learning more about how to put stuff back when it has been converted and didn't turn out to be profitable for people, and we've done that through the regional conservation partnerships with NRCS and USDA, the Natural Resources Conservation Service. We put collaborative biologists out on the ground to provide technical assistance on shorter term NRCS programs such as, you know, adding grazing infrastructure, putting in fence and water for people, helping them stay viable, kind of like you were talking about a few minutes ago. And that makes up, you know, another 100,000 acres. But as importantly, it creates relationships out there. People see a truck pull into the driveway with a duck head on the door, or someone getting out of a pickup with a duck head on their hat, and they know that person is there looking to hell in multiple ways.
• 40:08
  And that's really our philosophy out here on the landscape, is to become this helpful presence that says, hey, congratulations, you got some habitat we're interested in. We want to work with you to help you make that sustainable in your operation. And so we have a variety of programs I'm really proud of, but especially our RCPPs in South Dakota that are restoring thousands of acres of marginal cropland back to native grassland. We've got some pilot programs going in North Dakota with the Outdoor Heritage Fund that are expanding not only hunting access on some properties, but also restoring previously drained wetlands on those properties. So kind of a cool partnership there where the landowners incentivized to plug ditches and restore wetlands, and also receives a payment to allow walk in hunting access when they choose.
• 41:00
  So those are great. I also don't want to leave this conversation, Mike, without saying a lot of really amazing work is going on in our migration and wintering landscapes in Colorado and Kansas and Nebraska and Wyoming. Those folks are putting all kinds of wetland projects on the ground on wildlife management areas and national wildlife refuges in those key landscapes, Platte River, rainwater basins, the places where the ducks stop on their way up here to the prairies to breed and they rest and refuel. We're we're staying on top of those places too, Restoring wetlands that have been lost and degraded, incentivizing folks to continue grazing lands in the sand hills where there's lots of great wetland habitat, things like that. So we have a pretty broad reach across the region, but we stay pretty focused on supplying healthy ducks to the breeding grounds up here, and working with the people who help us do that.
• 41:59
  Mike Brasher: Johann, that's an amazing summary of new and exciting work, and some that maybe isn't new, but it's been so successful that you're continuing it, or maybe you're expanding it. You know, I kind of part of me wants to apologize for taking so much time to talk about easement, but then part of me doesn't because it is such an important tool that we have. But all of those other programs and practices and new places where we're working and and the diversity of of of practices and work that's happening all across that seven state area are equally important in their own right and in their own way. I was especially excited to hear about some of the the opportunities that we're providing to to landowners enrolling in some of these programs to allow public access to some of their property. I would love to talk about that in a little bit more detail, and clearly, there's lots more that we could discuss about some of these other programs.
• 42:59
  We haven't really talked about any of the soil health programs and how we've got some innovative ways of thinking and innovative programs that are, again, trying to meet the landowners, the ranchers, the farmers in a good place where it's they're not doing this because they care about the ducks. They're doing this because we can deliver something to them that is beneficial to their operation, but at the same time, it is a practice, it is an innovative idea that is allowing some productivity to be transferred also to ducks and duck habitat. So that's some really cool stuff, and nowhere is that type stuff more important than up there in the prairies. Johann, I'm gonna let you go. We had you for an hour, and we're at that hour point now.
• 43:40
  I will catch back up with you sometime later in the year. It's always an amazing message. Thank you so much for everything that you do and everything that your staff are doing up there. To produce more ducks for all of us. We extend the thanks to our producer, Chris Isaac, for all the great work he does getting these episodes organized.
• 44:11
  Now to you and to you, the listener, we thank you for your interest in waterfowl and wetlands conservation, and we thank you for this coming year buying twice as many duck stamps as you did last year.
• 44:23
  VO: Thank you for listening to the DU Podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show and visit ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, stay tuned to the Ducks.