Latest / Sutra Squad / Ep. 29 Sutra 2.35 On the First of the Yamas - Ahimsa or Nonviolence / Non-Harming

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Ep. 29 Sutra 2.35 On the First of the Yamas - Ahimsa or Nonviolence / Non-Harming · Sutra Squad

• Seth Barron: Hi Sutra Squad family. Before we start today's episode, we wanted to extend a special invitation for you to join us at Sacred India 2027, our pilgrimage along the sacred Ganges River in India. We'll be starting in Dev Prayag, where the last tributaries connect and the Ganga begins. We'll go down to the holy city of Rishikesh. We'll go on to Praya Graj, where the Yamuna meets the Ganges and this mystical Sarasvati River is said to join, and ending the trip in the holiest of holy cities. Varanasi, and every day we'll offer yogic practice. I'm gonna be offering power. I'll be offering satsang on the Yoga Sutra. And I'll be offering restorative yin and nature practice. Plus, if you've ever wanted to see the magic of the Sutra Squad podcast, we'll be recording a few special live episodes along the way. So all the information is live at sutrasquad.com. Click on the link for pilgrimage. You can find everything you need to know, and we really hope you'll be able to join us. On with the show. One cannot injure others without first injuring oneself. Because injury is the result of psychological planning. By physical injury, one can destroy only physical forms. By vocal injury, one can destroy both physical and mental forms. By mental injury, One can destroy even the form of spirit. Consequently, one will go to lower transmigrations. Hello and welcome to the Sutra Squad podcast brought to you by One Deep Breath. My name is Seth Barron, and I am so just beyond thrilled to be joined by this superstar Sutra Squad, Sally Moore. Hello, welcome. And Sarah Page Hall. And greetings. Sarah Page, one word that describes how you feel right now. A little activated. Sally, how about you? I'm going with motivated. ⁓ From activated to motivated, I'm just a day ahead. Or maybe a breath, we'll see. I'll say I'm stirred. I'm like a little stirred up. So we have a really like this is we are we are gonna like begin ⁓ a series of episodes where we examine one by one each of the five yamas. And each of the five Niyamas as just a sort of to breadcrumb us along. We the first chapter of the Yoga Sutra is the samadipada and the sort of nature of yoga at its most essential. And the second chapter is the sadhana pada, the chapter I sort of think of it as like if the samadhipada describes the last of the eight limbs of yoga, the sadhanapada, and sadhana means practice. And it's like how you get there. It gets really practical. And it starts with this sort of prescription of kriya yoga, that like the the sort of essential practices of action, tapa, svadya, ishvara, pranidanha. And ⁓ and it's so fascinating that those are the last three of the niyamas, like it's all so beautifully woven together and connected. We talked about the sort of kleshas that the Obstacles to yoga. We arrived at this sort of living spine of yoga, the eight, the eight limbs, the ashtanga yoga path. Ashtanga sometimes refers to a specific style of asana practice, and it refers to this ⁓ these eight limbs. Ashtha Ashto is eight in Sanskrit. So we're given like the verse that describes all eight limbs, Yama. the moral observances of the yogi, niyama, the personal practices of the yoga of the yogi, asana, the physical practice or the seat of yoga, pranayama, the intentional manipulation of prana of breath, pratyah, the practice of sensory withdrawal, or the sort of bridge from the external to the internal of yoga. And then dharana To place your attention with intention, dahyana to sustain that attention, or you might say meditation, and then samadhi, bliss, transcendence, yoga, full union, absorption. And we're given the list of the yamas, these observances, these moral sort of precepts, you could say, of ahimsa, satya, asteya, brahmacharya, and a parikraha to not cause harm or violence. To ⁓ to seek the truth, to to not steal, to practice continence and not to grasp for what's beyond our reach. And we're told that these are mahavratam, like a great universal vow, unconditioned by time, space, class, context. So they apply equally to all of us, and it's not a buffet. Yeah, you're all in. And then we're given the niyamas, shoucha, santhosha, tapasvadhyhayaya, ishvara pranidana. ⁓ shoucha is cleanliness, and koshosha, contentment, tapas like heat, austerity, or burning, like loving desire for practice. ⁓ svathyaya, the study of the self, and then Ishvara Pranidanha to surrender it all. And last week we talked about then these verses, these two more verses there where we're given this really complex and subtle instruction to that when when thoughts Occupy the mind that are contrary to the yamas and the niyamas, cultivate their opposite. And that practice is pratipaksha bhavana, to find the discernment of this and that. And that's not judgment, but it's clarity. It's I am engaged in this practice. This is what I'm trying to be up to. And so. I will be confronted with things that are aligned to that and things that are not aligned to that. And when the not aligned to that arises, and it will, because you're human, how do you get aware of it and choose to place your attention back into a sense of alignment to these principles? Very challenging. Lifelong practice. Many lifetimes. Of practice. And so with all of that, then it's like the warm-up. We get to this next series where we'll do the five ⁓ yamas and then we'll go on to the niyamas. And there are many of these lists in the Yoga Sutra. There's the list of the Kleshas, there's the list of the ⁓ the highest attributes of the mind, Maitri, Karuna, Mudito, and Upekshanam, which are said to be the keys that unlock the abode of the heart. ⁓ in the face of pleasure, pain, vice, virtue. That these are what preserve the innate serenity of the mind. And the and the sequence of all of these things matters. And so, in the same way, like in the sequence of the klishas, the obstacles to yoga, they begin with avida, the misknowing, the misunderstanding, the source of all of our suffering. From that arises egoism, and from that arises. play like like the the aversion to pain and the attraction to pleasure and that the all the the fifth most subtle and challenging is this clinging to life. Right? But they begin with avidya. From avidya beg stems asmita, the second. So here we begin the series with the first and it's ahimsa. And in Sanskrit a short ⁓ in front of a word is to negate the not. And so ⁓ I think it's, you know, so worth our time to just slowly, deliberately, carefully, lovingly examine these ideas because ⁓ this is one that I think sometimes gets like sort of tossed around in a lot of yoga spaces, gets used in a lot of ways to mean a lot of things. And it's really ⁓ a beautiful privilege to spend just some time to like really sit with it and to explore it. So I'll chant the verse. We'll talk about the translations and as we do every week, offer this and hopefully some some benefit might come from it. We'll so we'll see. But to start, maybe just get present to your seat. Maybe sit up nice and tall for just a moment and you could bring your hands together and just as a small act of ⁓ devotion. Just something. Take a deep breath in. Let it go. And if you like, you can join me to resonate the sound of ⁓ inhale. Yeah. Chanting Yoga Sutra two thirty five. Ahimsa pratistao vairat. Ahimsa pratisthao vairat. Ahimsa pratistao vairat. So ahimsa himsa without the ahimsa ⁓ means harm or violence. So ahimsa can be translated as non harming or nonviolence. Pratishayam is to be firmly established. Stha, we've talked about this before. Because it shows up in a lot of places. It's really interesting how these roots of meaning can illuminate our understanding. And it's something I love so much about again, this depth of study, because Sanskrit has so much richness in the ancient, ancient sounds. So stah is the same root as Urvastasana or extended mountain pose. So it shows up in a lot of asana names. So here it to means it's like to to be firmly established. And then it said, like in the presence of hostility, it is given up. So the one very sort of you could say, like down the line translation from like the way Sriswami Sachidananda translates this. In the presence of one firmly established in nonviolence. All hostilities cease. Sally or Sarah Page, whoever wants to go first, ⁓ is there a translation that particularly resonates with you of this really powerful instruction? I'll go. ⁓ I I inside Patanjali's words by ⁓ Yaganath Korea, I love what he says. He says that ahimsa is the highest of the yamas. Because the impulse to engage in violent thoughts, words, and deeds arises from feelings of fear, which I think that that's at a root of so much, right? So much. Like when we get scared, we tend to act out, we tend to become angry, we tend to become defensive. Anyway, feelings of fear from real, exaggerated or imagined threats. Competition for resources, lust for power and wealth and uncertainty. and change all played against the underlying background of dukkha. it creates a fertile ground for violence. And then all of the other yamas then help to create and support Ahimsa. Yeah. So as is often the case, the first of the series is like the foundation. And then it sort of springs from there. And Master Carrera is giving us that reminder that like It's sort of the like Hippocratic oath of like, but first do like you know, first do no harm. Like first, like literally, first cease violent actions, thoughts, words, and deeds, so that all the rest can become possible. Dukkha is suffering, pain, sorrow, grief, or a persistent pervasive feeling of perniciousness. ⁓ no, precariousness, sorry. Extential anger that's but it is pernicious. It is pernicious. Thank you. It is, it is. But anyway, so I just wanted to like duca, underlying background of dukkha is himsa. Continuing in career is I I loved a lot of these. They were all similar but slightly different. But continuing from Karev's commentary of the inside the inside Patanjali's words. There was a few things. He said, Our resources for ending violence should not be limited to to force, but through finding points of unity, harmony, and creative solutions to our conflicts. And then he carried on and he said, The masters of harmlessness radiate compassion, harmony, and hope in countless subtle and powerful ways. The minds of all must be open at least a little bit to receive that vibration. In order to abandon, change, or modify strongly held beliefs. But given a tiny opening, the presence of an enlightened peacemaker can work wonders. I feel like I've had those experiences where it feels really hot, and I'm sort of looking around the room thinking, how are we getting out of this? And then someone stands for everybody. And you can feel the energy of the room. So I loved, I really like that. And then there was he had included a quote there from Martin Luther King Jr., which I thought was so amazing. And it says written it into the show notes for this week. Did you? I mean, it's funny. And I see Sarah Page nodding too. And sometimes we see these things because I have by a few people in my life been told like that I was passive or I was gonna get walked over. And I don't think That's true. Like I don't think you have to scream at the person that cuts you off in the parking lot to be powerful. You know? Can you read the quote? I'll just real quick that quote. Yeah. It said, This is the unusual thing about nonviolence. Nobody is defeated. Everybody shares in the victory. Martin Luther King Junior. And I thought ⁓ I thought I had a different Doctor Queen quote. ⁓ that's amazing. I did. Go for it. Mine was ⁓ and we talked, we've talked about it before, but I think it's so it's ⁓ darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that. And in the same sense that like nonviolence is for everyone, and it is ⁓ for the sake of everyone that When one, as you said, Sally, like when we're firmly established, pratistayam, when we are grounded down, when it is when we are unmessable withness, like right? When that when that is our way of being, like no matter like no matter how much that person goes you, like have you ever been in a situation where like on a good day, you feel very grounded. I will feel like I've I've felt this, like. I will I will f and I 'cause I it takes a lot to like I don't I'm I I it's I'm not like I I don't need to raise my voice to people. I don't like get like it's just not how I move through the world. Cause similarly, Sally, like I had an old boss who once told me I was Pollyanish because I always I just seek good intentions. I just believe people have good intentions as a general default. I just choose not to live in a world where people are like out to get me. Every spiritual master truly like really sort of comes back to some to to this, I think. And so somebody's like like like have you ever had that experience of like somebody yelling at you and then you just stop yelling back? And they get like wheelie activated and they they like and they just like sort of burn out. And like that's that's this teaching that like in the presence of one who is firmly established, firmly established, unmessable with, enmity ceases. Right. Th that the hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. And we talked about this a little bit too, in that, like, you know, like there's this saying of like fight fire with fire. But what is the result of all that fire? More fire. More fluid. More fire. And eventually it burns itself out and destroys it, burns all the fuel. And what's left is just literally ash. Nothing. And so the only way to put fire out is with water. It's opposite. In this case, like enmity went is met with nonviolence. I really love okay, so Sarah Page, I'm getting there first. We were both talking about this right before, but there's gonna be some, but there's plenty for us all to talk about. It's it's it's everybody's. You go. ⁓ but I it's the this is the moment to like bring in this. I it's just I feel like calling in. So there's this a really fascinating book ⁓ called the textbook of yoga psychology. And in this text ⁓ the the author talks about himsa and in the ancient sort of ⁓ commentaries it is classified in three divisions physical, by body and instruments, including war, vocal, by speaking against others, including psychological warfare. So everyone just put a pin in that because that's a big one, right? Vocal, including psychological warfare, which we've talked about too, is like, how do you recruit people into someone else's wrongness? That is psychological warfare. It's very natural. And we've all I I am I won't speak for anybody else. I am guilty. I have done that. I I right like, and that's what it is, though. It is a form of Himsa and then mental by thinking against others. So there's these three levels of himsa physical by body and instruments including war, vocal by speaking against others, also aka gossip, including psychological warfare, literal gossip. Three, mental by thinking against others. And by thinking. Right. And then here's where the first time I read this, it just blew my mind. Himsa is to act is to act against, to speak against, or to think against oneself or others. To injure oneself or others in any form is himsa. This term is used without adjective. It includes every type of injury because it is a used in a broad sense. And now here is just like the One cannot injure others without first injuring oneself because injury is the result of psychological planning. I'm gonna say that one again before we keep going. One cannot injure others without first injuring oneself because injury is the result of psychological planning. Vocal injury is more serious than physical and mental injury is The most serious. By physical injury, one can destroy only physical forms. By vocal injury, one can destroy both physical and mental forms. By mental injury, one can destroy even the form of spirit. Consequently, one will go to lower transmigrations. That that makes me very emotional. It's emotional and I think that like so this teaching it's so profound. So often ahimsa is so much about like our external action, is how it's framed. And that is true. To eat a plant based diet in many yoga lineages, certainly like in the Jiva Mukti Yoga lineage is said to be a practice of ahimsa. But then the subtlety gets to but do you think poorly of others who choose to eat meat? Because that is very hymnsic. And that if we are thinking injurious thoughts, if we are thinking poorly of others, if we assume their badness, we recruit people into the wrongness of others, we are still not yet in ahimsa practistaya. First of all, this idea that the thinking ill of others is enough to harm their spirit. That's a big one. And sometimes we think like I think, like, well, I'm I just think I don't have to say it. But the thinking of it is is himsick. And that we think of it too like we look externally at the harm we cause or don't cause or try to lessen or cease. But that the thought of himsa, even the thought of physical, vocal, or mental harm toward others, even if we see it as projected outwards to the other, is injurious to the self because all action starts with a psychological process in our own mind, conscious or subconscious. But like nothing happens out of the Incredibly infinitely complex web of karma of action and reaction and reaction and action and reaction, cause and effect ceaselessly. So when we perpetuate that himsick karma of act like that action, it is always injurious to the self. The harm we cause others inevitably and always starts with harm we cause to ourselves. And I also get like a little emotional about that because it's ⁓ I think it's sometimes really hard to acknowledge that I ⁓ that I harbor thoughts that I'm not proud of, but I still catch myself in the wrongness of others. Well, and I love what you're saying because the the positive side of catching ourselves with these thoughts, you know, I always thought, ⁓ my thoughts are private. And they're just in here. But the truth is, I can't show up in the world in the way I want to show up in the world if I'm being mean in here. and I love, I'm gonna read from Ruben Vasquez from Unravel the Thread. I feel like a lot of the translations are similar. I mean, his translation is a person established in love and compassion, ahimsa, becomes a positive, peaceful influence everywhere. And he said she or he goes, and I was gonna say they go, but I didn't want to alter. But ⁓ and I just did. But in the commentary, it was sort of what you were saying. The first of the yamas to live with love and compassion is an invitation to open your heart. When your heart opens, your mind will open. And then you can recognize that the narrative portraying the world is h a hostile environment where Fierce competition is the rule and only the strongest survive is not quite correct. But you have to notice that thought, right? That was me adding that. A more accurate and useful perspective is to see that cooperation is the only way human beings have been able to survive and thrive. Nothing our species has accomplished has ever been the result of one person working in isolation. Even people who create a loan benefit from food, shelter, support of those around them. If you are benefiting from having running water, electricity, or access to communication technologies, the list of contributors who made these things possible is a long one. And I think of it all the time. If I didn't have my kids helping me with the computer, you know, all the things, like it's You know, but I just love it's what? I mean, this is not a joke over here, Mr. Technology. I know, I was gonna say. But you know, it's just how many people have supported me in the in everything. And I used to talk I used to work with ⁓ ENT residents at the hospital. I was their coordinator. It was like the mother of the residents, you know. And I really felt like, well, my son trained me very well how to see when people were maybe not telling me the truth, but gently pull them in and I love these people, and gently pull them into my office and have a really omus conversation. But I would say, half joking and half not, even to the faculty, no patient gets into the operating room alone. Yes, you went to school and you studied and you worked. But the nurses, the administrative people, everybody is working together to make this p this outcome for this person. You know, so it's not even when you're, you know, so called at the top of the pecking order, I don't know what to call this. Yeah, hold on to people. Yeah. Hierarchy. But you know what I mean? Like that does not Happen along. Yes, people go to different trainings, but the person who's trained to make sure all the instruments are correct and the person who's holding the patient's hand and the person that's everybody matters. And that was one of our funny, I'm gonna I I I don't think I'll get in trouble because I really loved all the people, but those nurses, they had my direct line. And when they called and somebody was a little short or unkind, and there's a lot of pressure in the system, that I would call them in and say, Okay, you are spending ten minutes with your patient, and the nurse is pending the other twenty-three and three quarter hours. Be kind, be supportive, and call them back. Because we work together. Didn't expect that to come out. Yeah, no, that's a that's a beautiful I didn't I I actually never heard you talk about that, Sally. It's really that's really really what a beautiful practice. I love that. Like right, none of us gets to where we are by ourselves. And and You know, there's this really it's this really fascinating paradox that like Some amount of harm seems somewhat inavoidable. It's sort of what that reminds me of is that like the sort of inevitable tragedy of the human condition that we hurt the people that we love the most the most deeply because we're in so deep. We know where all the buttons are. We know exactly how to press the one. That in a moment of fear, we almost every single one of us, often not even from a place of like conscious desire to cause that harm, but like fear like 'cause you know the button, you know the exact insecurity. that whether it's a family member, a loved one, a friend, where ⁓ it is so challenging in the moment to like pull back from like pressing that button. Right. And like and I for a while had someone in my life who used to say, like, well, I just like he could be very short with people. And I would find it very ⁓ hard to be around. And he would say, Well, I'm just tr I just respond to how people treat me. And I would say, Is that is that necessary? And and like and and his sort of ⁓ He framed it as like as if it was them treating him that way. And so he was just reacting in kind. And I said, It might be true that you perceive their behavior to be disrespectful, but one is like, do you know that they're like intentionally being disrespectful to you, John Doe? I will allow this person to be anonymous. Like, do you know that they like like are setting out in this moment that you're just like happen to be catching them through one p passing A rising phenomena and one transaction. Like, did you know that they were like, ⁓ I'll get you. I'll be rude to you. Like, and so like you feel like you have the what? That you it's your responsibility to be rude back. It's your you just somehow just like ha like because he had a very sharp tongue when he kicked back. And I remember I once finally just said to him, I like, you you don't have to. Like you You actually don't have to respond that way. It was a moment where I knew that like our like closeness would not be as close for as long. But really though, like, because I I just like I I I you know, I'm not saying I'm pr I I always can do this, but that like the more I ground down into like how do I harm less? How do I like how do I even notice? You know, I've noticed this with people in my life who I feel like have been. Disrespectful, mean, uncaring. and I think like it's not just the platitude of the hurt people, hurt people. Because we've talked about that too, and it's tricky. It's really tricky. ⁓ it's true. But if we think about this construct that like part of like the what, but like if I can take the pause, if I pull apart the stimulus and the response, right? What I see is that like what looks like them hurting me is them hurting themselves. It's actually self-harm. Doesn't make it okay, safe, or tolerable. Doesn't mean you have to stay close and let them continue to do that. It does mean maybe you step back. And in that space is some like we can be real heartfelt compassion. That's light can drive out the darkness. Ha love can drive out the hate. That like Man, I've got a lot of feelings about what somebody just said, did, like big or small. I've got I know and like and I start inevitably with like, ⁓ that person's so wrong, that person so mean, that person so v insert himsick adjective here. And then like like untie that knot a little bit. It's not about me. I don't know the stim. I don't know what stimulus elicited that response. I do know that that person is suffering. Because if you're behaving that way toward me, you're saying 10x worse to yourself about yourself. I know I am. Right? First of all, I'll go back over the moment and just be like rake myself over the coals about how I wasn't as kind as I should have been or could have been, or about how I maybe didn't s I didn't live up. To the highest ideals of my practice and and ⁓ like that, like like that's that can that's that's hard to sit with. You know, I it all comes from fear. Like your friend, ⁓ or your ex-friender whomever this you know, John Doe, usually that comes from feeling like I'm being I'm I'm being disrespected, the Simskara, whatever it is, I'm being disrespected, I'm being comes from fear. Yeah. Fear of not being heard, fear of you know, fear of not looking smart, fear of looking weak, fear of not being the funny one, whatever it is, whatever it is that they did. Yeah, it doesn't even matter, right? It doesn't. It doesn't. And it really does and it doesn't. Like I mean I've had I I have a little knee-jerk reaction and I've mentioned it on here before to hurt people, hurt people, because I think it is bypassy and I think something that a lot of people who are on a spiritual path get ⁓ Accused of toxic positivity. We're trying to do better. We're trying to live an ahimsic life. But we are most likely to be I so hurt people, hurt people, but we've all been hurt. That doesn't give you it, we've all been hurt. That's nobody gets out of here alive. And so I think I think that part of the work for me is because I live a lot in my head. I live a lot in my head. I'm I'm very outgoing, I'm very outspoken, but I live a lot in my head. And the things that I say to myself in my head are very himsick. And I have a tendency, ⁓ I've been very honest on here before, that I have, you know, I'm an alcoholic. And so I have a tendency to self-i isolate. And that is when I know, okay, I'm gonna start some hip I am going to start him sick behavior on myself. I can tell this because I'm not going outside. I'm not answering texts. I'm not doing things. And so that's when I can sit, you know, we talked about concrete rug table chairs. That's when I can sit down and go, okay, why am I feeling like this? What is this triggering? What is this activating? What is this, you know? And so, and also, I think it's very important to go, and we've talked about this also. Those can be very, very real things. And your your emotions are valid and real. And and you're allowed to feel hurt. You're allowed to have all of that. I would say, and I don't know if I love this languaging and probably not, I would prefer to say something else and I'll figure it out later. But I would say the problem becomes it is not okay to wallow in it. It's not okay to just get into the vritti of, you know, they did this and that, da, da, da. And if they didn't treat me like this, then I wouldn't treat them like that. That's when it's not okay. That's tricky. Well, you know, ru we know what Rupal says it's okay to look, but don't stare. ⁓ Let me share something that's don't stare that I just I had noted that is really in line with this conversation. It's from the secret power of ⁓ yoga from Mishala Joy Debbie. And she says, Embracing the great virtue of Ahimsa brings a knowledge that each of us feels pain, joy, disappointment. Love, the full spectrum of emotions. As we open our hearts, Ahimsa elegantly beams reverence and love to the many facets of our life. We accept the importance of respecting all, even those who threaten or harm us physically or emotionally. Yet the part that many of us forget is to treat ourselves with that same reverence and love. The difficult lessons for many of us are. is to learn to love and serve ourselves first. When we refuse to take the time to treat our bodies, emotions, and minds with reverence and love, they will often remind us, not so kindly, from failing to respond when we need them. Our ability to think clearly recedes. Listen to the wisdom of your heart. The heart consumes the fresh oxygen oxygenated Can't pronounce it. That's blood, but you know I'm you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got it. Coming from the lungs, the heart knows it must take care of itself first so it can then pump out the to the rest of the body. If you inadvertently harm yourself or others, generously bathe the injury in love and compassion. Healing the hurt that already exists is a great beginning to the practice of ahimsa. ⁓ say the last line again. Yeah. Healing the hurt that already exists is a great beginning to the practice of Ahimsa. And I saw this just the other day. I ran into a a friend at the studio where I teach, and I was like, ⁓ I haven't seen you in a while. Are you okay? And sh her mother had passed away. And she was said to her mother's from another country and ⁓ She was having a difficult relationship with her brothers or brother and sister, her siblings, since her mother's passing. And I said, I'm so sorry. And I said, you know, it's weird. I'm just studying a himsa. And the way people treat you is not per se about you. And she said, but I have a part in it. And I left that conversation thinking, I think that's a himsa. Do we see the part in it? our part in it and we put our attention to healing the hurt that exists as a beginning of the practice of ahimsa. Like I really thought it's true we all have a part in all of our relationships. But what we don't have to get into, sometimes it feels easier to stay in the part of blaming another person for theirs, you know, what we perceive as their poor behavior. But I thought it's really the kind thing is to say, okay, what's my part here? And can I treat this with kindness? And so and also just to to piggyback on that a little bit, Sally, maybe that was really bad behavior. Maybe they had it, but it's not our job, our work, not job, but I think our work is not to, like I said before, not to wallow in it, not to get into the muck and the mire of it, to acknowledge it, to see it. Yes, that person said that to me. That was not nice. It was, you know, him sick and it was hurtful and painful. What is my response going to be? And is there anything I can say or I feel the calling to say that I didn't say actually without a any kind of I think we went through this in one of the level trainings with Baptiste Yoga because I remember coming home thinking I wanted to apologize to my mom. And they talked about how you give an apology. And it was I'm sorry, like I remember starting off thinking, I'm sorry, like I've I've judged you harshly. And I'm really sorry about that. I can see you doing a good job, but then you have to stop instead of adding the but this button. But this, but yeah, an apology with a butt is not an apology. I gotta tell you, I had I will say this story. I had that happen to me. ⁓ it started out as somebody trying to make an amends, and I was in, I was there, okay, I'm here for you. I took off my sunglasses, I was looking. ⁓ It was like, okay, I'm here. And then all of a sudden it devolved into this. And this is why I ghost to do because this, this, this, put my sunglasses back on. Cause then all of a sudden I realized this ain't an amends. An amends is is is something that was done to the other person during addiction, during I took action. I am accountable for my action. I recognize that it caused harm. And I don't even know the harm that it fully caused. What can I do to make it up? Either monetary. Right. Yeah. Exactly. It was not that at all. But you know, I think this is so great. This is so great. This is so great because it's the perfect place to like pivot to like what do we do, right? Like, how do we live this? Like, it's easy to say, like, if you're totally practicing ahimsa, all harm around you will cease. And there are, by the way, there are apocryphal ancient stories that like The great yogi walks into the woods and like the lions and the the the animals that would normally like set upon a human, like eat out of their palm because they can fully sense that this being has no capacity or interest in their harm. And so they don't have the natural reaction to like eat, pounce. And in the modern world, like, you know, it's a gr it's a really interesting. Like, ⁓ I did something ⁓ God, I was so embarrassed. I I I did I I I did something to one of my like dearest, dearest friends. Like I I can say this. I don't think he would be upset about it. I forgot his birthday. I've been friends, I've been friends with this guy. I told you guys about this. I've been friends with this guy for 18 years. Same day every year. And I totally forgot his birthday. And I was sitting on my couch to another friend, like I don't know why he's being so weird to me. Like, why is he being so weird in these like text messages? He's like, giving me this like weird energy, like what? And I had this like and I had this moment of like, why would he be like, I mean, like life is weird and I don't know what's going on. And had this like, like my stomach dropped to my feet. My friend had been telling me something as I'm in this moment of discovery. And I said to the friend who was sitting with me, I said, I have not paid a single, I have not paid attention to a single word that you just said because I think I forgot this friend's birthday. And he looked at me like, Not like d and he was so sweet. He was not judgmental. And again, I'm not a perfected yogi by any means. But what I did do was like it was kind of late in the evening, not too late. And I know my friend, I I just called him. And like, who calls anybody these days? Right. And I just called him and I was like, I think I forgot your birthday. And there's this long pause. He goes, You did. And I just said, I am so sorry. I'm sure I thought about it that day. I'm sure I thought to text you. I'm certain I did not. And there's no excuse. I am not going to give you any reason. I am just going to say that I feel Awful, and this is not about my feelings. I'm just sharing that so that you know that I feel awful about it. I am so sorry. I don't even know what else to say, except I am so sorry. That is totally on me. I was sitting here wondering why I was getting these weird responses from you, and I just now, of course, and and I love you so much, and I and I hope that the depth of our friendship can. Overcome this because I made a huge mistake. And I'm so sorry. and I had a lot of him sick thought about myself around it. And he was very gracious and and he said, you know, I I I I I was very hurt and he was v and he was I and he was honest and gracious in his response. He said, You did. I was really upset. I I wa I I I wa I am really hurt about it. And I know we've got a long history and I know you love me and I know that you've b had stuff going on and I'm upset with you and I'm not like never gonna talk to you again. And like, so we like, you know, it and I had to and I said, and I was like, I was in I was getting teary. And I said, like, I don't want to put this on, I don't want to put my emotional experience of this on you because like I'm the asshole here. So I'm gonna go. I just couldn't like be with that realization and not have just like come to you with it. and I love you so much. And ⁓ I'll text you tomorrow. Then I had to sit with like again, like how do I acknowledge how do I like you know, so it's like what it's what Nisha Joyjev Joy Devi was saying, like how do you meet the hurt? How do you meet the healing with with loving with loving kindness? As a way of reducing the harm. Because the harm that we do to others starts with harm to ourselves. I mean, we've all talked about this, like, and I think it's true for probably every single one of you listening, because you're human, and that like as for as many harmful words and thoughts as you have about other people, the thoughts about you that you have about yourself are probably way harsher and probably way worse. No one is as mean to me as I can be to myself in my own house. And I have to constantly interrupt a practice of self-harm with a practice and not in the cheesy, self-helpy, toxic way, but in an authentic way of saying self of some love self-love, which is, okay, Seth, like you're having a thought, and it's just a thought, and you have a lot of feelings. And like, what's a loving thing you could do for yourself right now? What's one way to remind yourself of something loving? Like You know, whether it's vocal, physical, or mental himsa, even when it's directed externally, it begins internally. So the harm is always to the self. And like Mama Rue says, if you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love somebody else? Every episode. Well, you know, there's also the saying, and I love this, I would never speak to you two who are two of the loves of my life or anybody that I love. the way I speak to myself. Right. Right. I mean, never. Right. And so I think part of this practice is both like the ⁓ what's the word? I almost said ruthless, but it's not, it's the unflinching Self-awareness of just like, yep, I'm doing it. Radical self-awareness. Radical self-awareness. Radical self-awareness. That's it. It's the radical self-awareness of just like, ooh, wow, I am really piling it on. Okay. Okay. Like, how can how can I start there to say, like, what's just a little bit of kindness I could find here? How can I notice when I'm recruiting other people into my rightness? Because that requires someone else's wrongness. And those are like inter they're inextricably interconnected. I can't be right without someone else being wrong. And to be in the prathayam, the unmessable withness of ahimsa is to transcend the right and the wrong. Right, Sharon Ganon, do you want to be right or do you want to be free? Freedom in Ahimsa is letting go of the rightness, because it doesn't matter. And even in Ahimsic practice. Noticing the subtle layers and just peeling them back and peeling them back and peeling them back and peeling them back. So, like, I don't eat meat. Part of that is an ahimsic practice, part of it is just a personal health practice. I'm not saying that to proselytize. And I and it's funny, and I say it too, because ever sometimes like. There is the joke of like, how do you you mean you met a vegan? Because it's the first thing they want to tell you. Well, in all fairness, it's because when we're going out to dinner, I just want to eat some vegetables and I want to make sure you're picking a restaurant that has vegetables. So I will mention it. But if you want to order a steak. You know, as my grandmother would say, gay gazant. Go with that. It's old Yiddish, right? Like gay gazant. Go. Do. I don't know. It's not your body. I mean, it's not my body. Like it's not my and like and I really and and and while I do believe that eating a plant-based or mostly, let's say mostly plant-based diet is a generally less himself way of being in the world, it's also like not that black and white. Cause like Who do you think picks your produce? And do you think that like those organic strawberries don't have some himsa from their origins? Whether it's the farming practices or the labor practices or the agribusiness that owns them or the transportation business that got you them or the capitalist who owns the grocery store, someone caused some harm along the way from a strawberry on a patch to a delicious berry in your mouth. And unless you're going off the grid and Growing all your own food and doing all those things, somewhere in modern life, we have some amount of harm. It's like, it's like how we can never be free of karma. There is always karma. It's not good or bad. It's just is. It's the cycle of action and reaction, cause and effect. And the only thing that's above that is Ishvara. So like the only way to be in the Pratistayam is with so much like tender compassion, right? Like it's it's like the it's the keys Maitri, Karuna, Mudito, Upekshana, loving kindness and friendliness and compassion and the sympathetic joy and an equanimity of like it's That unmessable with, that's the pratistayam, that's the confidence of Upeksha. I wanna interject here because I we were talking in in the hour prior to this about the similarities between all of the great writings and you know of of you know, the Bible, the Bhagavad Git, yeah, all of that. Something that ⁓ Yaganath Kerrera does. And I love this. He does do the quotes. He did the Martin Luther King quote, but he also did blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God. That's Matthew. And and but what I love is what he commented on about it. He said, peace is the master plan of the universe, even though so often it does not seem to be so. Those who seek peace within and without, and who become, I love this, radiators of peace. Are aligning themselves with the deepest, subtlest forces of the universe. Radiators of peace to radiate peace are aligning themselves. And it's just, you know, it's just like so simple. And Pradistayam. And it's, but it's also simple. And we just complicate everything. But I mean, it's it is complicated. It is, but it's not. And it's not. Like if you get if you cut through all of this stuff, it's peace, love, loving kindness. Okay. Yeah. Like that's it. And ⁓ but anyway, I just want to. Other great spiritual teachers told us all we need is love. ⁓ Thank you. I'm a big Beatles fan. I love the Beatles. I love the Beatles. Anyway, this is a practice and a study in which we could engage for a lifetime and will. And it's so special to really just sort of simmer in it and like really just slow down with it. Because again, like I think in a lot of yoga spaces, I'm I'm just I'm gonna go on a small limb here. And I don't mean to be critical. I'm not saying this to be critical at all. I think like a lot of yoga ideas in the West, there is a lot of reductive. use of some of these points of yoga philosophy. And I don't think there's always the time and space for the depth of study that is re is really required or that I believe is valuable or that I wish was more commonplace or that I, you know, and I think that's why we're here as like, right? It's like, it's why it's this is and then and I and again, I'm not saying that because like We have the right answer. I'm just saying we want to carve out a little space in this world as an offering to if you hear the sound of our voices, it is truly so that we might potentially be of service to inspire you toward practices that might be slightly less himsick. And if and if like that is a little bit of like the karma that I'm working out, like that, like hallelujah. What I'm then I'm really blessed. really deeply, that is like like the highest blessing. It's important to sit with these things. It's important to get curious. It's important to go deep into these very foundational constructs. Because Ahimsa is more than just eating a vegan diet, although it might be eating a vegan diet for a lot of people and not for everyone. And Ahimsa is more than just you know unsubscribing from Amazon Prime. Although it might be, and it might be for a lot of people. And I'm not making a judgment about Amazon Prime pro anti-weird. We're not doing politics here. And I'm not here to tell you how to be a consumer in the world. We've all got to engage with late stage post-colonial capitalism and try to do so in the least himself way. And we all out here have to pay our rent and pay bills. And do you think this microphone was free? Right? Like w that's the that's the, you know, and if and by the way, like Any of us could also choose to maybe, maybe it's less himsick to go live in an ashram, but that's also not our dharma. And like that's not the practice that we're proselytizing. And we're not trying to proselytize any practice. I think we're trying to offer some space to say, like, if you want to be up to the yoga, the big yoga, the real yoga, the life yoga, like if you want to be up to anything that looks like that. You start with these great vows, and the beginning of that beginning is this right here. The first construct, the most foundational, the most, the literally like the the the brick, the cornerstone is ahimsa. And that you know, Sally says this, and I think about this very often. Yoga is not punitive. Yoga is not punishing. And yoga is a path by which we make. Cause ourselves a little bit less harm, that we may cause harm, a little bit less harm to others and to our surroundings and to the world around us. And in so doing, maybe if we're really lucky, leave it a little better than we found it. Because when we stand in our practice, it de-escalates people around us. When you let that person just keep yelling until they're done, and then you say, I hear you're really upset. Doesn't mean it's okay that they're yelling at you. But it does mean that you don't have to yell back. And that's subtle and powerful. And that sometimes means that like you have to say, like, I hear that you're really upset. And I need like I like I I don't feel great about like the level of energy that's happening right here. So like I need to take the pause and like let's come back to this tomorrow. If we can my ask would be to keep our voices like maybe you like whatever, whatever, however you do that. Every one of those small actions makes a difference. So okay, let's get to let's get to ⁓ our wrap-ups here. Let's start with a teaching tip. We all three of us are asana instructors, and a lot of you are there too. And whether you formally teach yoga classes, asana classes, or you are an asana practitioner, you're a teacher of yourself, for yourself. So, like, welcome. And Sarah Page, what is a teaching tip on this practice of ahimsa? I would say for the teacher, how often are you second guessing and saying little stories inside of your head about how that didn't go well and you suck as a teacher and all of that kind of stuff? So remember that it's, you know, as Seth says, the calls are coming from inside the house. If that's it, if that is the story that you are telling yourself, it is the story that somehow you are giving to your students. So watch how you speak to yourself. That right. Just rock my mind, rock my world, Sarah Paige. I'm gonna chew on that. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. That's a great one. Thank you. Sally, how about you? I'm gonna just invite teachers and students to ⁓ invite in Himza through mindful actions throughout the asana practice or throughout your day, you know, wherever you are. Build your physical practice by being deliberate in your movements, your breath, and gentle in your thoughts and just observe maybe what happens inside you and around you when you put in purpose purposefully love and compassion. I think my teaching tip is like We so often in the West like go to spaces to practice yoga as to like to get what you want. And I'm a little guilty of this. Sometimes I'll say to a class, like, I want you to get what you want. I want you to get what you came for. So the like I'll invite people and to say, like, as a way of setting an intention for practice, I'll say, like, what do you want? Like, what do you really want? Say it to yourself right now. No. But but for this week, I actually want to sort of flip that a little bit and say, like, And maybe invite people in to say, like, what does it look like to take this on, not from a place of what you want, but as a place of real deep loving care of yourself? Like, what if that, like, I'm gonna invite you into that specific intention that like whatever you think you came here for, like, okay. And like, what if you like pick that up and underneath it? Whether that's spiritual transformation or like a good workout. And everywhere in between. It's all welcome. And what if all that starts from a place of real deep, reverent, loving care for yourself? That is the that is the what if you make that the root, the seed, actually baby better said, what if that's the seed from which this class sprouts forth for you? What if it's just like what if it's right, what if it's that? So you start with it as a way of caring for the self so that you can show up as your best for others. And that's how you can truly, truly live your dharma. So we also offer an inquiry for something that like we're gonna think about this week and we invite you to maybe think about this week. ⁓ Sarah Page, what's some inquiry around ahimsa? I think it still goes back. I I too was very moved by the the yoga psychology, the textbook of ⁓ what are you saying to yourself and how can you stop it? Yeah, I d that's the I think that's the goal. I think that I think there is a way. I think acknowledging, I think acknowledging it, I think seeing it, because if we continue to talk to ourselves the way that we do, like I said, that you know, or I'll say speak for me, the way I do. Yeah, I think we can disrupt that. Okay, wait a minute. I know I'm doing this, you know, rug table chairs. This is what I'm doing. I see what I'm doing. This is himsick. It is not helpful to me. So if you see that, how do you stop it? And do you want to? Maybe you don't want to. Maybe you like chewing on that kind of negativity. And then that's a whole different kind of inquiry right there. Yeah. What are you getting out of that? What is that doing? What are you getting at? What's the gimme? What's the gimme? Yeah. So you know, that that might be the big inquiry right there is like, why don't you want to disrupt that drift and turn the tide a little differently? What are you getting out of it? Yeah, interesting. Sally, how about you? I'm just wondering, is there a person or an area in your life where you could begin to deepen your practice of ahimsa? And just do you notice? Is it easy or hard for you to keep your heart and your mind open? How could you bring more love and compassion for yourself, everyone, and everything into your life? Yeah, I'll be a little contrarian, actually, which is like what if There's what if none of the thoughts are wrong? Like not a single one of them, even the meanest ones. But what if you get curious about like where they come from so that you can meet them with love? What if you can call in even in the face of fear, even in the face of the voices like screaming at you about you to you? And like, can you pull that apart even in your own mind to say, like, what are you what are you trying to protect me from? What are what what are you afraid of? And what's a loving choice you could make around it? You know, it's sort of like how we talked about like the the nirodaha, the swaddle. How could you like swaddle those thoughts in? It doesn't mean you believe them to be true. Cause they're not most of the time. So that instead of meeting darkness with darkness, we meet it with light, and instead of meeting hate, we meet it with love. And that doesn't mean we put ourselves in dangerous positions or unsafe circumstances. It doesn't mean we allow people to be disrespectful or hateful to us, but it does mean that we choose like not to perpetuate it, to just like ground down that again, pratistayan. Ground down to say, okay, who do I want to be? Am I am I who I say I am? Even when it's me ⁓ even when it's Seth on Seth action. Okay, who's the Seth I wanna be right now? Do I wanna be the Seth that like believes the fat stupid lazy story? Or do I wanna be the Seth that says, Wow, like you you care a lot? You wanna take good care of yourself. You want your body to serve you in this practice and in this life and in the mobility of your world and and you wanna challenge yourself into intellectual curiosity. and you love action, you love doing things. So, like, you know, how can that be joyous as opposed to like I I can't be lazy, I gotta go do something. Like how could how could you like ⁓ it's and again it's really subtle. It's tricky. It's really tricky and challenging. And if it was easy, everybody would do it. And and these are lifelong practices. And like maybe one day it's comes a little easier, maybe the next day not so much. And then you say, Okay, well, you know, step by step, pada, pada, how you eat an elephant? One by one at a time. Yeah. Like right, how do we practice ahimsa? How do we ground down in the presti in the in that pratistayam, like one press at a time, one breath. ⁓ we went a little long, but like it's a big topic and it's really worth the depth. And I'm just so, so profoundly grateful in this space and in the study and in the challenge and in, you know, and again that we are really co you know, that that we hope this is a ⁓ deeply loving practice that we reach Every single one of you. So if you hear the sound of our voice and you get any benefit, please consider liking, subscribing, sending or make a submitting a review, ⁓ making a comment and sending this even to a friend. ⁓ nothing would I think give us more honor than your personal endorsement from one friend to another to say, Hey, this is interesting. ⁓ and I know like that's the content that you when shared with you, you find them like sometimes the most compelling. ⁓ so thank you for doing so. and ⁓ Sally, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you, Sarah Page. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you, every single one of you who listens. We're so grateful. Next week we continue with Satya. ⁓ it's just, it's gonna be a really fun, rich ⁓ 10 weeks of the Yamas and Niyamas. And I'm just like so gooped. Every time we come back to it, it's new, it's rich, it's deeper, and it's just really beautiful to study this with you too. So for tonight, thank you so much. That's for that's it for us on the Sutra Squad podcast. We'll be with you again very soon. And lots of love. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, baby. Thank you. Bye y'all.