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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 399 - The Cuban Exile Theory · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: H what what what.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Repent of any sage juice to get up the true
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: down aware rabble brother juice a mob David, very ruding,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: mister food.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Isn't the pure wellness? It's rainy, nice sill the lights
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: the rivers ault.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Side has never been basting you and the boy.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: And here we go and here we go. What's up? Everybody?
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Welcome in to the Loan Gumbing Podcast, Episode number three nine.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Er oh wow, one a way.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we are getting into uh, we're gonna be getting
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: into some Cuban exile talk tonight and we're gonna lay
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: a somewhat of a theory out for you guys as
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: to possibly what could have been happening here. But before
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: we do, Joe, as part of the usual run through
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: the Kafuza, they have so graciously graced us with their
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: presence here this evening in the Peanut Gallery.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: If you will sure well, Tiny gets the gold. I
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: know she's been wanting the gold for a few weeks.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: Number one and number one in your hearts, in.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Your hearts and minds. Yes, James Smith, what not, Bud,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: how are you get the silver?
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: Nature?
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: And Trey.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Appropriately word appropriately.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Gets the trace? Yes, Johnny Olden knows these places like
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: the back of his hand, which is of course a
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Godfather reference. In Cuba, actually, yeah, GF two, No, that
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: is they were in Nevana. Michael Corleone was very concerned
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: about the Cuban revolution there and this was just as
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Castro was kind of taken over. Derek Schwinderman, what a buddy,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: good evening to you, sir, Sally. Can we we have
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: to figure out this flag because it doesn't look like Ireland.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Good evening, I know, but it looks like.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Like Norway or something.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: And what animal is that? Is it a lion?
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: That is a lion?
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: M interesting?
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Mike the library man, what's up, buddy, Mike? Uh we
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: we said to Sallyarity. Yeah, Quick Hits is going to
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: be live tomorrow on the Tube. It is not a
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: surprise anymore, so that should be fun. Definitely tuned in.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: You froze up that entire comment.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: You just said, Oh I said, Quick Hits is going
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: to be live tomorrow on the tube. It is no
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: longer a surprise because you put it up there. But uh,
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: definitely tune in for that should be should be a
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: good one, as Quick Hits always is.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: Get your asss up early, it's nine am Eastern time.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, get some sleep after the show tonight and
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: get get up and talk somewhere.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: JFK those of you across the globe. But it'll be
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: appropriately in the afternoon.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, Tubes says, Morning Evening. Have a great episode off
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: that catch the replay that is okay, all good baby
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Claude and aunt you Deane and what cold lone Stars
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: and some smoke?
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: Nice you getting toasted tonight? I like it.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: I like it too, mister Taylor, what our buddy? How
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: are you?
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: Jack Owen Smith?
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Morning? Everyone? Hope you're all good and ready to go
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: shared to excess always. Well, thank you, we appreciate that.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Lord Zeebs. We appreciate it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's good to be on next too. Mister
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: Scott Edwards and was more likely to be involved with
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Oswald than Judy. But there's no single lone star theory
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: early early comment of the night. Yeah, Scott usually has
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: a lot of those. If we had medals for common
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: of the night, I think Scott would be up there.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Ashley wood cranky, I'm listening what I have? Hi everyone?
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Thank you?
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: Yes, welcome Ashley from upside Down in Austraa. You're hanging
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: in there. It's good to.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: See, yes, Nathy Ryan in the house. What up? Hello
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: from hot Philly tonight. It is hot. It's been ninety
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: plus degrees here.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: It's humid as balls here like it's mad.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The uh, the Ruby does not like the heat.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: She does not like the cold. She does not like
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: the rain or the weather, or the snow or anything.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: But she's a prima donna like her father.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fair, fair, fair, let's see. Uh slacker Dan, what up?
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: How do you you missed Anthony our carpet salesman.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: No, I think I talked. Didn't I talk about his
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: comment when he said he would be catching the replay?
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: No? That was that was Ashley. No, Hi, Anthony, we
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: here quest carpets.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I'm going back up because I'm pretty sure I'm right here.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, we'll see.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: Oh no, here, I'll find it for you, he said. Morning.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: All go USA in a few hours. Shame they aren't
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: playing Cuba.
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: Oh well, sorry, if I missed you, tubs, just shut
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: up and move one before thrip Alright, these Australians, they
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: get me.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Ah Cavolta, all right, Paul Anci, what's up? Hey boys,
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: how are you, sir? Gp Ideal, how are you? Joseph?
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: It's in the English flag.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: Oh that ain't the English flag? I know that ain't
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: Jack Sally?
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, not not the one I know either, But
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: we might be behind the game there in terms of flags.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: We said, h Tray too and Turin? What's up? How
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: are you, sir? Who solve this damn case? Already?
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: I mean'st tonight? We might tonight. I'm telling you. It's
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: a good theory. So yeah, and.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: We had a not the tutor horn. We had a
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: banger of a show on Wednesday right over.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, show on Wednesday night remembers only two.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: And a half hours. Over two and a half a
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: little bit.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: It was killer.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: We went on some great discussions and if you're not
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: a covert operator, what are you doing? Big bag? Josh?
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: What up? Can't wait for your quote? Theory? Yeah, it
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: was some scuffoss who did it? That's our theory? All right?
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: That is it? So, uh, let's get started.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: You kick it off, sir, fine, I will, okay. So
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: we came across some very interesting information in the course
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: of doing this whole investigation into Sylvia Odio and father
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: McCann one of the suppositions. Well, let me back up
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: for a second, because this actually goes back to the
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: last time that we had Larry Hancock and David Boiling
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: on the show. And of course they've been trying to
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: explain and go into Oswald's head and really try to
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: figure out who this guy was and exactly what he
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: was doing and why he was doing it. Right, And look,
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: we are conspiracy theorists here, we are not loan nutters.
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: And we get some of the pushback to the to
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: the Hancock and Boiling theory. We get it. People want
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: Oswald to be totally innocent. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: be the case, and not just from their work stuff
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: that we've looked into, Joe, with what Oswald was doing
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: with you know, his signature analysis. I mean, you know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: some of these things are very damning. You know, we've
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: looked into the to the letters that he and Marina
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: were writing back to the Russian embassy trying to go
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: back to Russia. You have Oswald getting his passport in
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: June of sixty three with plans to travel in October
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: through January of sixty three. Now on this passport application
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: that he got in June in New Orleans clearly states
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: on there that he was he would be traveling to
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: a bunch of different countries in Europe, with Russia buried
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: right in the middle, and that he would be doing
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: it by boat. Okay. Now, obviously this is not what happened. Okay,
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: And ultimately the only time he would have needed this
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: passport is when he was trying to obtain a Cuban visa,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: a Cuban entrance visa to go to Cuba. He had
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: he would have had to show his passport at the
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: Cuban consulate had he been approved for this emergency Cuban.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Visa, had he been prepared.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the same emergency Cuban visa that Gilberto Polycarpo Lopez
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: did get. And if you don't know who he is,
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I don't have time to explain it here.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: But he was another Cuban exile who was in the
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: FPCC in Florida, who happened to be in Dallas at
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: the time of the assassination and then traveled down out
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: of Texas. He was photographed at the border going into
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: Mexico and he made his way to the Cuban consulate
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: and he was granted an emergency returned visa to Cuba.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: And one yeah that I was about to say, didn't
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: he get his own kind of private flight if you will, Yes, yes,
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: So this is an example of someone who did have
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: all their documents.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: In order, well not necessarily documents in order, but he
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: had some kind of pull that we just not are
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: not privy to. You know, had Oswald had some kind
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: of pull where somebody okayed this thing, you know, it
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: might have been a different story, but nobody at the
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: Cuban consulate or the Russian consulate could approve it on
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: their own. They had to get word from above. And
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: for Gilberto Polycarpoi Lopez, that word did come down from
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: above from Castro who approved his entry and some emergency
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: entrance visa back to Cuba.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Right, and not for lack of trying on Oswald's part,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: because he brought all, you know, the newspaper articles and
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: you know details of the fracas and his FPCC bona
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: fides if you will, to he on.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: His old passport that he used to travel to Russia.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: He had that with him as well, So he had
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: a lot of evidence that he was a Castro supporter.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: But again, you can try to convince the people working there,
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: but approval has to come from down on high right,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: and he just didn't get it. So where was I
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: going with this? Oh, back to Larry Hancock, David Bowling.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: You know again we are conspiracy theorists, and yes, we
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: we realized that there are a problems with every aspect
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: of this case, including Mexico City. Some people believe that
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: he never went, some people believed that he did go,
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: some people believed that he was impersonated there. Some people
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: believe that he went there and was impersonated, and there's
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: decent evidence to back up all of this correct. The
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: problem is, you know, when when you look at certain things,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: I think I came to the conclusion that I was
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: pretty sure that Oswald went to Mexico just from looking
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: at his signatures on things, and of course there's problems
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: with things, and he could have been impersonated at the
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Cuban consulate. We have two copies of his Cuban entrance
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: visa application. One is stamped. One was given to the
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: HSCA by Castro on a trip to Cuba in nineteen
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: seventy eight. The other one they retrieved shortly thereafter. From
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: the embassy when they were investigating for the warrant commission.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: That was not stamped. It was typed through the lines.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: It was very dark, hard to read. Yes, that kind
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: of thing. Now, one thing that might explain that away
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: is that the shitty version is one that they might
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: have done with Oswald in their presence, because the signature
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: does look like his on that copy.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Mm.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Now, after Oswald leaves, maybe her supervisor said, look, that
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: that just is not going to work. That is you know,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: you got it. You're typing right through the middle of
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: the lines. Redo it. So they re typed it, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: then somebody signed Lee Oswald's name at the bottom and
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: they stamped it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Right. It might not have been actually lead signing.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: It, right, It does not look like his signature. There's
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: two totally different signatures on the same thing, right, or.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Could have even possibly been transcribed after to make it
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: more legible. Would you agree that's a slight possibility.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: No, because the original copy was typed two. I mean
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: it said the exact same thing. Okay, both copies said
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: the exact same thing in type, and there's a whole
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: paragraph at the bottom written in Spanish. It's the same
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: on both the only thing that's different is one has it.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: One is typed correctly over top of the line right,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: one's in the middle of one, one's in the middle
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: of the line is very dark and hard to read,
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: one is stamped officially, and one is not right. So
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: this that could be the explanation for that. But back
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: to the theory. So let's back up a little bit
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: and talk first about the dre We came across something
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: when me and Joe we're diving into the Silviodio thing
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: where one of the people who came to her, well
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: actually both of her visitors. It was claimed that they
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: were Cubans from New Orleans. Okay, that's what she said.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Came to Sylvia.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, with leon Oswald whoever whoever that was. She claimed
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: that there were two Cubans from New Orleans named Angelo
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: and Leopoldo. Leopoldo or that's what they told her. They
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: also told her that they were with Jurrey. They also
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: told her that they knew her father, YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: Now we also saw that one of the members or
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: one of the one of the people who visited her
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: could have possibly been Juan Manuel Savat Salvat otherwise known
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: as am Hint number two. All right, and he's a
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: Cuban exile. He was in charge of the operations for
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: the DRE. He was like the third man. Yeah, okay,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: he was an operator. He wasn't an office sitter. He
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: wasn't just sitting in the office somewhere doing paperwork. This
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: guy was in charge of their operational arm of the
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: DRE as far as seriously going and you know, being involved.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: So yeah, let's see here. I'm gonna put together a
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: little bit of a timeline just to help everybody put
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: this in their mind in the correct order.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: So going back to nineteen sixty two, on September the fourteenth,
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: Ted Shackley, the chief of the CIA station at Miami,
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: sent a twenty two page progress report to CIA headquarters
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: about the activities, budget, and intentions of the DRE in
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: August of sixty two. It was based on reports filed
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: with Shakley by case officers working with the group. In
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: this and other agency records, the DRE is referred to
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: by the cryptonym am Spell Okay, that's the DRE. R.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Shackley is identified as his pseudonym Andrew K. Ruderman Okay,
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: that's Ted Shackley's aka Shooterman, Andrew Ruderman, Rian Rhetorican Ruderman.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Don't want to get I'm confused with.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: The August sixty two Monthly Report described the organization of
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: the CIA's relationship with the DRE, stating am spell is
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: quote comprised of am Barb and am hint activities serves
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: only to promote propaganda in the Latin American countries where
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: am BARB delegates were assigned. Now. Am Hint, of which
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Salvat was one of them, was the agency's kryptonym for
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: a program to support or a program of support for
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: certain leaders of the DRE, a group that had first
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: formed at the University of Havana and then been forced
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: into exile by Castro's Cuban forces. The DRA leaders were
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: identified in CIA communications with the am hint designation followed
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: by a number. For example, am Hint fifty three was
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: DRI Secretary General Luis Fernandez Rocai.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: All Right, one of the other top bsd's biggest written
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: you know what of the DRA, yes who pretty much
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: had him and Salvat pretty much had direct access to
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Howard Right should have been, well, we're not there yet, okay, sorry,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: I jumped the doll.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Am Hint two was DRI co founder, as we said,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: Juan Manuel Salvat. The report also detailed how the agency
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: handled this relationship with the Cuban students. According to Shackley's report,
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: this there was a case officer assigned to each AMSPELL component. Okay,
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: these officers had regular contacts with members of all the sections. Thus,
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: the am HINT officer known as Stanley Zamca aka David
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Sanchez Morales losing the Cuban score out there, met with
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: the Cuban exile known as am hint two. That would
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: be Salvat for regular paramilitary operational purposes. So this guy's
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: a serious operator if you're dealing with Morales, right, yes.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: The am BARB officer Robert Kneelander identity unknown, met with
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: a source known as am BARB eighty four identity unknown
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: as regular operational contact with m hint two as a
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: quote emergency am barbed contact. The AM's spell officer Herald
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: nowher Mayor aka Ross Krozer, met with m hint two
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: Salvat as quote regular overall AMSPELL control and with AMBARB
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: fifty four, who was identity unknown for occasional legal matters. Okay.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: Uh So, let's move on a little bit here in
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: the timeline where we get to the Cuban missile crisis.
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: Of course, in October of nineteen sixty two. On November sixth,
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty two, Jerry O'Leary, a staff writer with the
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: Washington Star newspaper, reported that according to the DRE, the
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Soviet missiles had not been removed from Cuba, contrary to
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: what the US government had been telling the world. According
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: to its leaders, Castro had stashed the missiles in caves
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: outside of Havana. Kennedy read the story and asked CIA
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: director John McCone about it. Kennedy suggested, quote an effort
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: to persuade responsible editors to check such stories with the
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: government before they printed them. Next time, you dumb motherfuckers.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: So later that day, let's see who. Yeah. Later that
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: day or actually November twelfth, apparently Roca aka AM fifty three,
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: the Secretary General of the DR, went on the NBC's
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: televised Today's Show and repeated the missiles and caves story
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: to America, and they aired it.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's just sixty two or three.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Sixty two, Okay. Later that day Kennedy mentioned that today's
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: show in a meeting with his national security advisors, and
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: he asked that every Cuban refugee making claims about arms
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: going to Cuba be interviewed within twenty four hours. Quote.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: The refugees are naturally trying to build up their story
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: in an effort to get us to invade, Kennedy said, quote,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: we must get the people the facts that the refugees
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: have no evidence, which we do not have. Quote. So,
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: on November the thirteenth, nineteen sixty two, CIA director Richard
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: Hilms summoned DRE leaders Roha and Jose Marie Lasa to
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: his office to discuss the CIA's relationship with the group.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: So again, shortly after all this shit hits the fan,
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: the heads of the DRE, the leaders of the DRI
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: are brought to Langley. Okay, yep, they with Richard Hilms
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: himself right, and.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: They are we we've talked about this before on our
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: der E episodes. But they are causing problems for the administration. Yes,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: the DRI, and they are obviously getting funded, but they're
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: causing problems with their quote propaganda you.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: Will, Yes, they are most certainly.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Big problems, not small problems.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: Big enough to get called to Langley and to meet
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: with Richard Helms himself and be berated right dressed down.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Helm said that he was aware of the group's differences
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: with US policy towards Cuba and did not know what
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: the policy would be in the future. We said the
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: agency wanted to work with the DRE to improve the relationship.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Helm said he was going to reassign the group a
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: new CAA contact. Quote regarding the new contact, mister Helm
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: stated that he wanted a man who would and could
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: maintain collaboration he had outlined and would be helpful and
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: of assistance to the DRE. He also stated that this
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: contact would be quote personally responsible to him for the relationship.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: Now this is where Joe, mister John Edes comes in.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Enter.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: On December the fifth, nineteen sixty two, Joe and Edy's met.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: With Rocca, who replaced Krozer. Yes, yeah, so Krozer, you're
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: not doing a good job controlling these kafuzzas, these fools.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: We're gonna give you a new boss, or assign a
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: new boss to look over them.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: Yes. However, at this time, this whole Howard thing becomes
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: a problem because as Shackley reported the alias Walter Newby
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: aka Joe and Needes was introduced to am Hint fifty
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: three aka the DRE and he succeeded Harold no Mayor
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: or Ross Krozer as a case officer for the project.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: So if these d R E Cubans know Joe and
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Needs as Walter Newby Howard, it's not the guy they're
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: talking about when they refer to Joe and Edy's because
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: according to Ted Shackley in his report, his alias is
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Walter Nuby and not.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Howard Howard Gimblerler Gembler.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, so that's a problem, mister Morley, But I digress.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: In interviews, Roca recalls that his new CIA contact introduced
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: himself as Howard again, which doesn't match Aclee's description unless
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: they were goat, unless they were pulling the wool over
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Shackley's eyes and saying this is here's Walter Newby, He's
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: going to be Howard.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: I don't see that as.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: That doesn't make sense, does it?
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: No?
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: I mean Shakley is the swinging deck at jam Wave.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but let me ask you, this is it getting
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: some of the new groundbreakings docks confirm Howard Gebler as
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: or did they not?
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was one of his aliases. Right, So the
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: guys had multiple aliases.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: That's what I was going to ask, like multiple alight
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: for multiple.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Projects, right, It says Shackley reported that Walter Newby was
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: introduced to am Hint fifty three, which is the DRE,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: and succeeded Krozer as the case officer for the project.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: So unless Ted Shackley thought that Joe and Needes was
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: Walter Newby and had another it gets confusing.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think Shackley, like literally leading jam Wave
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: would have been misled on that.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: I don't either.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense to me that that would be
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: the case. Like, oh, we're gonna keep Ted Shackley out
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: of this, you know what I mean?
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Again. The records of the Dri Joe were donated
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: by Juan Salvat to the University of Miami's Library's Cuban
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: Heritage Collection. It contains numerous memos and letters in sixty
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: three addressed to quote Howard or mister Howard, concerning the
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: DRI's struggle against communism in Cuba. So who is this
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: mysterious Howard? They never used a last name of Gebler, right,
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: It's just always Howard or mister Howard, which would intend
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: a last name right?
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: And wasn't it based on some like driver's license application
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: or some ship? Yeah, the Gebbler thing came out recently
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: or I don't.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: Know, yeah, so uh. December eighth, sixty two, Helms informs
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: the National Security Advisor MC George Bundy that the DR
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: was planning to issue an open letter to Kennedy calling
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: on him to quote fulfill his promises to liberate Cuba.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: Helms wrote, if the DR goes through with the plan
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: to present this letter to its CIA contact officer, the
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: office will make every attempt to dissuade the DRI leadership
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: from this attempting to pressure the United States government, and
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: on December twelfth, Roca gave a copy of the DRI's
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: open letter to President Kennedy to his new contact, Joe
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: and Need's aka Walter Newby aka Howard or mister Howard. Allegedly,
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: he asked that the letter be reported to Hilms immediately.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: Now here's where it gets interesting. There is some big
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: friction between the leaders of the DR and the CIA.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: At this time. The DR is not listening there, and
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: obviously they're still pissed off about the Bay of Pigs.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: What happened there. A lot of family friends were killed
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: because of what they believe and what the CI has
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: been telling. Hey, Kennedy didn't send in their support. Sorry,
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: we did all we could. You know, we trained, We
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: trained a bunch of you guys. We went in fighting
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: besides you guys. And Kennedy was of no help to us.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: So you can understand how while the CIA might be
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: funding these Cuban exile groups, they had no love for
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: Kennedy at all.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: So no, no, no.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: And you know we and now they're being brought to
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: the carpet, berated and muzzled right by the United States
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: government and threatened you shut the fucked up or you
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: know or yank you know your funding and ye possibly worse. Yes, yeah,
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: So you can see how this tension is building, right
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: and now we're now we're coming at this is the
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: end of sixty two. We're coming into sixty three now, right, okay.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: On January fourteenth, sixty three, Newby not Howard Newby, reprimanded
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: am HINT fifty three for failure to report an unusual
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: substance of coded broadcasts over w mi i E, a
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: Miami radio station, according to jam Wave cable to headquarters.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: Newby pointed out this flagrant violation of the SEC, thus
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: placing kubarc CIA in an embarrassing position. Am Hint fifty
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: three apologized profusely but said it was urgently necessary to
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: alert PB Ruman that's Cuban am spells, Cuban exiles dr
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: E Cuban exiles who were in pert to penetration danger
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: the first time existence penetration reported by am Hint fifty
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: three or other AMSPELL members. And this is the Cuban
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: government figuring out who the Stayback Dre members were in Cuban, right,
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: and if found out who they were, he'd kill them all.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Right, which is of course one of their major draws
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: to the CIA, and having a lot of them be
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: students University, Havana whatever, being able to give intelligence of
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: what was actually going on there, right, And that's why
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: they were funded to the tune that they were.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and these are young guys, these are smart guys
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: going to university. They're young. These are not fifty year
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: old men sitting around bullshitting.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: No, some of them are younger than Oswalt even at
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: this Yeah, many of them.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: So again, now we have Newby reprimanding the DRI again
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: for this stuff.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: On January sixteenth, sixty three, a CIA polygraph specialist wrote
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: it just before the polygraph interviews, so they had they
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: polygraphed the DRI guys in January of sixty three. They
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: did am Hint fifty three and am barb sixty five.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: The previous day, am Hin fifty three brought up two
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: points which he said he was thinking of mentioning to
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Newby sometime soon, in which he examined would like to
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: make sure I brought to the attention of his case officer.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: So now you see that they don't trust the DRI
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: at all. They are only questioning them under polygraph examination
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: at this point, and the.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: Feeling is probably mutual.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: Rob. Yeah, but you gotta put yourself in these guys place,
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: all right, Okay, you're working for them, you're being funded
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: by them. They won't let you do anything that you
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: want to do. And now they're calling you to the carpet,
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: they're berating you. And now whenever you talk to them,
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: you have to be hooked up to a fucking polygraph
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: machine because they don't trust you.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: That would piss me off.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: So you can see how the tension here is building. Okay, yes, sir,
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: so let's see that's unbelievable. I did not know that
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: they were doing.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: That, but uh I didn't either.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: Actually, yeah, I would be.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Especially if you're like a big swinging d of the
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: DRE and you go to meet with your handlers, funders,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: whatever you want to call them, and they're hooking you
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: up to that type of stuff. They're calling you to
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: DC like, that's kind of piss me off.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and again you have the bay of pigs happen
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: in sixty one to keep missing Craze in sixty two.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: Kennedy is not their favorite person in the world at all.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: So in February of sixty three, Towards the end of February,
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: Rocca told Newby that the present amspell mood favors action
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: ops of Havana raid types, which means they want to
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: get to do something. They're tirres sitting on their fucking
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: hands and it's time to do something. They want to
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: go on more raids.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: They're getting frustrated, they're getting impatient.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, he told them that planning was currently already
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: well underway. AM Hint fifty two declared am spelled that's
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: the dre feels so strong on necessity of action that
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: it intends to proceed even if coup Bark were to
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: discontinue am spell financial report. So they basically tell him, look,
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: we're gonna do this shit with or without you, with
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: or without your money. We don't give a fuck what
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: you say. Right, We're tired of sitting on our hands.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: We get somebody needs to do something. This is in
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: February sixty three people. Am Hint fifty three intends this
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: alert on raid to constitute compliance with their gentlemen's agreement
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: that am Hint fifty three had with Fletcher Knight aka
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: Richard Hilms. That yeah, but.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Kind of like a handshake, remit not really in writing
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: correct correct.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: The cable noted Nuby re emphasize kup bark opposition to
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: this plan and warned the appropriate odioke you or you
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: United States elements could not look the other way, but
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: would attempt to intercept all Amspell raiders and deal with
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: them in open waters if necessary, which means, okay, you
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: fucking funk around and find out dr try it and
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: we'll blow your asses out of the water.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Right, And you also have to consider Rob Nuby or
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Joan Needy's uh was put in there specifically to keep
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: an eye on these skufusas, right, so you could see
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: how the tension would be building in terms of, well,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: we don't want them to do that, and they're going
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: to do it anyway, and okay, we'll intercept them. Like
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: you can see how it's escalating.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it's escalating for sure. So let's fast forward
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: to April, well, actually to March. The Kennedy administration announced
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: the crackdown on anti Castro groups seeking to use US
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: territory to organize or launch attacks against Cuba. On April third,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: the Cuban Coordinating Committee, which oversaw covert operations against the
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: Castro government, met with Helms and representatives of the State
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: and Defense departments to discuss six proposed covert operations, including
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: the sabotage of Cuban shipping. The CCC gave the CIA
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: the option of using either its own Cubans or the
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: DIA or the DRE as a cutout to take the fall.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Right, Where does that so familiar? Yeah?
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: On April fourth, The New York Times quoted the DRE
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: Secretary of General Rowhouse response to the crackdown, and he said.
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: Is he United States has unjustly improsed the imprisonment on
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: some of our Cuban leaders, and some of them are
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: still confined to their homes. He said, Ever, Overton Orchestral
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: have always culminated an abandonment, treachery, and broken promises.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: So he's pissed. They are pissed. Also on April fourth,
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: Shackley reported that AMSPELL the dr had called a special
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: meeting of its Military Section aka their Operations.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Division aka Salah Yes.
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: Speaker was am Hint number five aka is zidro Borja,
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: who had served as the chief of the dre's military section.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: He told the military section relations with Kubark Cia have
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: come to an impasse and no alternative for AMSPELL but
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: break relations and continue without aid. Citing one reason, am
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: Hint five said that coup bark won a military section
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: dismantled a condition that the DRE could not accept. Yeah,
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: this is April of sixty three.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: This is problems. These are problems.
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it ain't all sunshine and rainbows. No, So let's see.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: As of April sixty three, the DRE was receiving fifty
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: one thousand dollars a month which is a lot of
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: fucking money. In April of sixty three, a lot, according
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: to a CIA memo. The memo listed average monthly payments
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: made to the groups guided and monitored by the Agency.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: It stated the payments to DRE were subsidized by quote
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: the headquarters of an organization in Miami, to the tune
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: of twenty five thousand dollars a month, while CIA field
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: stations are in direct contact with the fund representatives of
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: the DRE in most Latin American countries all right. On
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: April twenty ninth, SAS Chief Desmond Fitzgerald again ordered jam
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: Wave not to cut off funding for AMSPELL without approval
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: from headquarters, and on June twenty fourth, the DRI propaganda
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: section addresses a memo to Howard. On June twenty eighth,
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: DRI member and Barb eighty four gave Nuby a memo
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: about Soviet activity in Cuba. Answell was going to use
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: the information in a press release. That's the DRA Newby
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: inquired about the source of the information, and according to
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: DRI memos, in July sixty three, he gave the group
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: money for a military operation and brought the group an
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: air conditioner for their headquarters.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: And Rob just to stop you really quickly. I just
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: did the updated inflation calculator because you know, fliction has
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: been rising. In April sixty three, five hundred and fifty
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars would have been close to six million a month.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: That's a lot.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: That's a lot.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but they were really to throw that away if
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: I didn't let them do what they wanted to do.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Which is significant. Yes, if you're not gonna want six
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: millim a month and purchase power today to you know,
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: do what you want to do, You're obviously very invested in.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: Your Your ideology outweighs your the monetary value of the project,
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: which means you believe more and following in your heart
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: and doing what you think is right then patting your wallet,
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: which is a noble supposition. Right. I've always said, whoever
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: pulled that trigger and Dally Plaza either got paid a
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: ship ton of money or they did it for free
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: because their ideology was strong enough to be like, all right,
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: this motherfucker needs to die.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, it could have been a little bit of both,
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: but yeah, I think either one of them two would
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: have been the driving force. So I put my money
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: in ideology.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and If you think the dri didn't have the
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: money to pay to get this done, you're dead wrong,
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: because that money would have come directly from our government
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: the tune of twenty five thousand dollars a month, which
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: is what Joe, what six million dollars?
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I did? Five hundred thousand a month? Is that what
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: you said?
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: No? No, no, fifty one thousand a month. Oh, then
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: I'm a little off, a little inflated.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: A little inflated, pun intended it would have been about
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: fifty five fifty six grand a month or adjusted for inflation.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: That's not right either. Fifty one thousand, Joe, is not.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: I have fifty one hundred. I'm sorry I missed the
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: zero there, I'm missing zeros. I'm adding zeros. It's approximately
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: fifty five hundred and five hundred, five hundred and fifty
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: five thousand a month, so a little over half.
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: A million a month, A little over half a million
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: a month. Correct. That could definitely buy an assassin or two.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: It definitely couldn't, especially or four when you consider how
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: much they Yeah, sorry I misheard you, but yeah, it
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: definitely could have. And these guys weren't rich, these exiles
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: like you know, you talk about Lauren Hall. I mean
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: not that he's an exile. He's more of a mercenary.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: But you know, you gave's left not to get as
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: much money every.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Month, right, like and like people going to Walker and
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: everyone else, and who knows how much they actually spent
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: in their average monthly expenditures if.
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: You will, especially if the government wouldn't let him doing anything.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, you spend on printing flyers and and you know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: pirate radio bullshit. You know what I'm saying, that's propaganda.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So as we moved closer to the date in question, I.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: Would beg some of it for sure.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So let's move closer to the date in question.
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: We're up to July thirty, first of sixty three. Newby
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: receives a or joeann Edy's received a fitness evaluation for
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: his work since March twenty seventh. His boss stated that
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: he had done an excellent job in the handling of
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: significant student exile groups, which hitherto had successfully resisted any
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: important degree of control. Joan Ed's handling of the DRE
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: contrasted with his work on an quote unproduct, the group
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: whose funding had been cut off before Donats was promoted
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: to the chief of the cy war branch of the
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: jam Wave Station Psychological Warfare. Yes. So in August the fifth,
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: Oswald visited a store owned by Carlos Brignier on Decatur
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: Street in New Orleans. He headed the DRE and was
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: actually the only DRI delegate in New Orleans. Oswald offered
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: to help train Cuban exiles for military operations in Cuba.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: Brgier demird, which means he said, no, I'm good. He
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: didn't trust this gringo motherfucker. Right, so Oswald left his
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: Marine Corps training manual as a token of his good
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: faith with mister Carlos Brigna. Right. Okay, now you can
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: imagine Joe uh went. On August ninth, Oswald was handing
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: out pamphlets for a pro castro group called the Fair
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: Play for Cuba Committee on a street corner not far
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: from Brgia's store, when a couple of Brignia's friends came
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: to his store and was like, you're not going to
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: believe what's happening. From gringo is going down the Canal
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: street with a Viva Fidel placard around his neck sand
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: fair Play for Cuba or whatever, So bring A rounded
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: up three other members, Celso Hernandez, Miguel Cruz and carlos Kiroga. Uh.
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: The Cubans challenged Oswald for his apparent double dealings and
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: his support of Castro and got into a fight with him.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: Police arrested three of the four Cubans and Oswald, which
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: means Karroga slipped by the way.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting.
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: If that's correct.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: I'm not on could have been Bartest too or.
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: Been because well, I don't know, because Karoga had went
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: to Oswald's house right and trying to infiltrate his fair
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: play for QUBA committee after the fracas, So I think
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: Oswald would have known had Karoga been with the three
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: gat with b and his buddies, that something was going
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: on there.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: But yes, I agree, and before you start, uh continue,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: didn't because we were talking about other people that were
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: privately funding the d ari as well, didn't. Uh, Claire
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: loose Booth, Claire Booth, Loose Booth, you have their little
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: backwards fund the d two. Josh, I have it backwards. Oh,
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: I have it backwards. I'm sorry, Sean, I know she
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: definitely forwarded. The story was that the night of the
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: twenty second I believe it was a lot of the propaganda.
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: Look, she owned Life magazine, right whatever, Yeah, and they're
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: basically trading money for exclusive stories to print in Life magazine.
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: They were going down and sending Life writers and photographers
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: along with these Cuban exiles on these raids because this
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: is exciting shit in nineteen sixty three, This is what
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: people want to read about, this is what sales Life magazines, right.
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: And she paid a lot of money to various Cuban
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: groups to allow this to happen. So technically she kind
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: of funded them, but she was getting something in return.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, more like supported than and publicized their propaganda. I
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: don't know about funding. She could have very well. I
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: just don't know.
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: So On August the twelfth, Oswald and the dra Cubans
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: appeared in court. A TV news crew filmed the men
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: coming and going. August twenty first, Brignia, Oswald, and two
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: local journalists appeared on the radio show Latin Listening Post,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: a local radio program. Brignia was identified as a representative
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: of the DRE. The four men debated the Cuban issue
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: for thirty minutes, with Oswald defending Castro and Brignia asking
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: if his organization should be called the fair Playoff for
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: the Russia Committee. Afterwards, Brigniay issued a press relief in
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: the name of the DRA calling for a congressional investigation
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: of Oswald. Quote right to your Congressman, asking for a
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: full investigation on mister Lee H. Oswald. It confessed Marxist
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: Oswald's contacts with the DRA in New Orleans were reported
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: to DRI headquarters in Miami and to the group's CIA contact,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: according to Isidro Borja, who was chief of the dre's
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: military section at the time. Quote, I know Brignier gave
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: us an information that that had happened and that we
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: made a report to the CIA about it, Borja told
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: the HSCA in nineteen seventy eight. On August to twenty
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: sixth sixty three, Richard kin Joe, maybe you've heard. A
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: former Chicago police officer reported to the CIA that a
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: Cuban source told him that he had been recruited by
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: the DRE to fight Castro in Cuba. The source said
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: that he would not join any effort not back to
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: not backed by the US government, at which point the
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: DRE representative place to phone call to Miami and with
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: the Contact Listening, spoke with a senior Salvat and asked
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: if the group was sponsored by the CIA. Salvat replied
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: it was sponsored by the Pentagon, which is in competition
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: with the CIA, and therefore all activities of the DRE
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: must be kept secret. Was September four, sixty three, the
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: Domestic Contact Division of the CIA circulated King's report on
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: the DRA to the SAS in Washington. A notation on
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: the rounding sheet says, quote, Sam, I talked to John
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: Tilton about this Mayo Stunts.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: What does that mean?
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: Don't know. I know Tilton was at Wave, but I
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: don't know who Mayo Stunts was.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Tilton is a lesser known CIA officer jam Wafe.
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for weird. The Salvat claimed that they were
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: funded by the Pentagon and not the CIA. But you
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: know he's keeping a secret, right.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could have been deflecting, you never know.
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: On September the twelfth, sixty three, Miami was notified that
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: the DRE was mentioned prominently in a Men's magazine cover
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: story calling for Castro's assassination. The article stated the DRE
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: was offering ten million dollar reward for Castro's death. The
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: article appear under the headline we are going to kill Castro.
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: The story described how the DRE was offering ten million
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: dollars cash reward for the death of the Cuban tyrant
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: for del Castro, and that Roha Dri Secretary of General,
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: had made the offer. Now can imagine this did not
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: go over well with CIA Bright.
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: As they are continuing to cause more drama.
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they might be trying to kill Fidel behind the scenes,
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: like covertly, but you don't want to put a ten
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: million dollar bounty on the man's head in public to
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: the world. Probably not the smartest move on their part. Yes,
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: So on the next day, Newby gives five DR members
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: in Miami six hundred and sixty dollars to travel to
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: New York to challenge Procaster of Students and to Washington
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: to meet with the House on American Activities Committee known
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: as who Act. The expenses of Salvatt and Lenusa were
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: both paid by Congress. The Procaster of Students agreed to
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: debate DR members in New York. According to a one
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: page one Washington Post story, the confrontation between pro and
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: anti Castro of students in Times Square resulted in a
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: near riot that paralyzed Midtown Manhattan probably didn't go over
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: well either.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, gp ideal dr was wild.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: Returning to Miami, the DRI leaders stopped in Washington as planned,
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: and Salvat met with HUAC's staff and HUAC picked up
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: some of the expenses and likely on their trip to
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: Washington probably were called in to HAVEVID chat with mister
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: Helms as well. At this point, again, it would be
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: my guest. September twenty third, Fernando Garcia chacone of the DRI,
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: responded to a jam Wave inquiry about the C magazine article. Quote,
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: Certainly what is stated in the article is false. It
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: wasn't us. We didn't do that. You must be crazy.
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: They're lying. We are being set up. Okay, well wasn't us.
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: Right now October sixteenth sixty three, Joe, we're getting to
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: the critical mass here, ye jam Waved informed headquarters that
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: am Hint fifty three or aka Rocca said that the
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: dre's military plan would be delivered to Nuby on October eighteenth,
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: sixty three. So they plan on moving forward with operations
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: contrary to what they've been told to do, and they're
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: gonna let NUBI know what they're doing.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: And rob keep that you said October sixteenth, Right, keep
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: that date in mind, because October thirteenth, saw thought, and
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: this is what I'm going to get into. And my
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: segment here was in Dallas talking to Cuban exiles, which
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: will kind of be the second part of this. So
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: this is all kind of coming together in this sense, right,
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: maybe trying to rally the troops type of thing.
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So October twenty second, Miami State received the cable
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: from CIA Quarters saying, quote Headquarters concern as to how
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: Tutor one identity unknown involvement with am spells may affect
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: the utilization of the Too Toe group in other station activities.
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: We'll discuss with Newby after his arrival at headquarters and advised.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: A comment from the White House Chief of the Western
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: Hemispheres Desk, a CIA quarters suggested quote Newby come to
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: headquarters to discuss am H five activities in Venezuela. So
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: now you have Joe and Needy's being called back to
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: Langley to the carpet to answer for his unruly dre folks.
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: Right, why aren't you looking over these scuffusas like you
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: were hired to do type of thing? Right?
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: Yep. On October twenty second, the DRA submitted to Howard
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: or Nuby or Joe and Needy's a proposed man military
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: operation against Cuba called Operation Macau Operation Macal four. That
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: same day, Roca gave Joe needs a forty page plan
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: for military action in Cuba written in Spanish. I hope
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: you can read it, motherfucker.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: Shakley informed headquarters that Joe and Needles would follow up
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: and personally deliver his findings to headquarters.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: All right, Headquarters of the CIA.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, after quote after study by wave, followed by
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: conferences with AM Hint two Salvat and AM Hint fifty three,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: Roja Nuby will proceed to headquarters for discussion. Now we're
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: into November, Joe, November sixty.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: Three, We're there.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: November sixth, Ted Shakley weighed in on a detailed cable
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: about the dre's plan. He said the CIA had told
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: the group if if they had plans for military action,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: they should submit them for consideration. He noted that the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: group had been threatened with a cut off of funding
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: in March of sixty three, and this was their response.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: In other words, fuck you, We're gonna do what we
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: want to do. We'll let you know about it, but
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: we're gonna do it anyway. I take if you want
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: to rob.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Let me know, let me let me ask you. This
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: would the q bark Cea asked them for their plans,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: just to know their plans, even though they might have
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: not had any intention.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: Of of course.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, and so yeah, sure, give us your plans, guys.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: And are they the real plans? Who knows? I'm sure
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: the DR doesn't trust the CIA, right, so there's freaking polygraphs.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Right, there's a lot of fuckery going on here, double dealing,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, all right. So he noted that the group had
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: been threatened with the off of funding in March's sixty three,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: and this was their response. Jaqlie content or criticized the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: DRI leaders, saying they had over they had an overblown
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: view of their effectiveness, which means y'all ain't as great
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: as you think y'are. And this is coming from Shackley. Okay,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: so calm down, just have a seat over there on
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: the bench, boys, Okay, you ain't all that is what
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: he's saying. Basically, they regarded themselves as quote the equals
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: of generals and ambassadors, he said, and they also had
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: a quote penchant for insecure behavior unquote. He recommended at
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: that time to cut the group off financially for good.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: This is coming from Shakley, Yeah, on November sixth. On
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: November thirteenth, the DRE submits expenses to Howard for Operation
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: Macal four markall but pay us back.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: Bro.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: On November fifteenth, sas Chief Doesman Fitzgerald Cable Miami, ordering
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: the cutoff of the DRE military section per Shackley's recommendation.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: Funding for the dre's non military efforts, however, were not affected.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: That would be propaganda efforts, not the military wing, if
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: you will.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: Right correct. So now November nineteenth, we're really fucking close people.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And the last day you said was like a
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: week before the assassination. So now we're even getting closer
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: right over.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: Than a couple of days here. November nineteenth, Nuby told
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: Roca that the CIA would not support the dre's military
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: operations plans anymore, as recounted in CIA cable. Nuby told
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: am Hint five three two that he regretted to inform
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: him that ku Bark was not inclined to support any
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: part of an AMSPELL military plan, although support to AMSPELL
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: for propaganda and education would continue. Newby stated that he
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: was instructed to encourage AMSPELL to seek support of organization
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: with which AMSPELL ideologically was compatible. In other words, he's
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: pretty much telling them to evolve into something else at
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: this point. Okay, this whole dar thing has a bad name.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: It's got a bad smell to it. Forget your military
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: operations and just roll everything else into something, you.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: Know that's not going to cause us as many problems.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: Propaganda ish, you know, and educational right, non military actions.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: So you can imagine that went over like a you know,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: fart in the bathtub. Newby stated, Yeah, he was asked
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: by ideologically and he's his parting was most non amicable.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: Same day, all I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, We're now to
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: November twenty second. Okay, President Kennedy was shot and killed
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: as the motorcade passed through Dallas at around three pm
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: Central time. The Wire Services reported there's a suspect that've
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: been arrested in His name was Lee Harvey Oswald. At
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: six ten pm, a CIA cable from Miami two headquarters
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: reported that local radio stations were quote carrying a report
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: one Lee H. Oswald arrest as primary suspect and president
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: assassination am HINT fifty three reports amspelled. Delegate had radio
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: debate with Lee Oswald a Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: sometime in August of sixty three on New Orleans radio
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: station WDSU. According to MSPELL files, Oswald, former US marine
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: who had traveled to Moscow in fifty nine, at which
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: time Oswald renounced as the citizenship and turned over his
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: passport to the American consulate, allegedly lived in the home
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: Soviet foreign minister for two months. In course of radio debate,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: subject confessed that he was a Marxist. Lenusa and Briga
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: spoke to reporters extensively that night, recounting Oswald's procastro activities
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: in New Orleans. The story received prominent coverage in many
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: leading newspapers. The next day. Suspect denied being a communist
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: on August twentieth, said the Washington Post. So now you
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: can understand the friction between the DRE higher ups and
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 4: the US government. The c I a jan wave in particular,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: big friction, no trust. They wanted the dri on a
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: leash that they can control and the dre was a
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: barking dog wanting to choose through that fucking leash and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: be unleashed. That's a great analogy right now. If you
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: are a smart and these guys were fucking smart, they're
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: not stupid. They could have possibly seized on the fact
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: that this was the perfect opportunity as soon as it
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: was announced that President Kennedy was going to be coming
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: to Dallas, which I think is the closest to New Orleans. Right,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: you don't want to you don't want to ship where
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: you eat in Florida. Okay, we're in Miami. You don't
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: want to do that when Kennedy's there, right.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: That would have raised a million red flags, even more
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: red flags than there are. But yes, so.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: They were pissed at Oswald. Okay, they were pissed.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: At and rightfully.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: So imagine if these guys sat around, you know, in
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: their bodega one evening, shooting the ship, drinking some surveyses, right,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: and came up with a plan, okay, to not only
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: kill Kennedy, but do it in a way that was
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: a giant fuck you to America. And what I mean
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: by that is in front of hundreds of witnesses and
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: Broad Daylight and pinted on Lee Harvey Oswald, who they hated, Right,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: this guy was supposedly pro castro. He tried to trick
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: him and infiltrate their group. They all got arrested. They debated,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: they didn't like each other. You gotta remember Brigner was
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: extreme far right General Walker level type motherfucker.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, so.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: You can imagine a scenario where, you know, I don't
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: think this is something that Brigner would have concocted on
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: his own. He definitely would have running up the flagpole,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: if you will, to somebody like Salvat And if they
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: could convince it themselves and come up with a very
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: convincing plot that they could get away with doing this
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: and not be caught and actually pennant on this stupid
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: ass gringo come off, okay, And if two people, two
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: Cuban exiles from New Orleans, personally accompanied Lee Oswold to Dallas,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: and we're aware of the fact that he was going
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: to be going to Mexico City and then coming back
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: to live in Dallas because that's where his wife just
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: moved back to. And it's right about this time that
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: the President's trip to Dallas is announced that it was
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: going to be taking place. Now. Look short, no final plans,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: no motorcade route yet, but the trip had been announced.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: So now the Cuban exiles have one part of their
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: plan coming together, which is their Patsy will be going
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: back to the city that they were going to be
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: killing Kennedy in. Yeah, which is a plus. Now, now
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: you just have to figure out the rest of it. Okay,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: you have to have somebody in Dallas watching this motherfucker
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: Oswald very closely and reporting back like where he's living,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: what is he doing, where is he working? Right, what beatings.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: By the middle of October, they figure out that this
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: dumb ass is working at the school book depository right now. Again,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: they don't know where the Moti caid route is yet,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: that's not announced until a couple of days before the
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: actual assassination. Right, But he doesn't have to be.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: On the exact Moti cared route.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: On the exact moti caated route, correct. If he is,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: that's a great plus. Yeah. And if you if you
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: can figure out if you have a map of Dallas
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: and you can figure that Kennedy is going to be
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: coming into love Field, right and he's going to be
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: having a luncheon at a certain place. There's only so
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: many ways you can go right by car. And if
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: you figure that he's going to want to be seen
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: by the people and wave to the people, as he's
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: been known to do in the past in other cities,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: then one could hopefully logically conclude that he would do
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: the same thing in Dallas. Now, of course, one thing
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: you can't control, Joe is the weather.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: Right with the bubbletop, and.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: Had it been raining and the bubble top is on
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: the car, they likely would have had a backup plan, right,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: mm hmmm, which we have heard some murmurings about.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: Right Roy hargraves to knock at it, go on a tangent,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: but you know he alluded to that.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: Yes, Now, one might say, well, well, I'll circle back
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 4: to that and I'll turn it over to Joe now,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: because one thing that we talked about with Larry and
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: David the last time they were on is Okay, you
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: can figure things up to a point in New Orleans, right, yeah,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: Now you have to figure out the Dallas portion. If
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: they're truly setting Oswald up to take the fall for this,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: how does this happen? What is going on. And that's
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: the key, right. We can all agree that Oswald is
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: acting a certain way in New Orleans to a point, right,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: and then after he comes back from Mexico, he's kind
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: of acting a totally different route. You know, he was
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: unemployed for almost three months from June to October.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: July nineteenth, I believe it was, so you're like July
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: at September October, so.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: Ye, three months.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: I believe he was fired from RILING nineteenth unemployed.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: He's ramping up this FPCC bullshit. You know, he's handing
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: flyers out, he's confusing around, arguing with Cuban and doing
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: it in public. And when he comes back to Dallas,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: what does he do none of that ship. Allegedly, he
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: decides to buckle down. He's he's consigned with the fact that, Okay,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: well we're not getting back to fucking Russia. We're not
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: We're not gonna be able to get to Cuba. You know,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: he was denied at the Russian and Cuban embassies in
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: Mexico to go back. The people in Washington, they've been
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: writing to having him jump through hoops and they're not
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: helping out. He wanted all that happened before Marina had
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: the baby in October. That didn't happen. So now he's
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: resigned to the fact that all right, well might as
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: well just get a job. Any job will do, and
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: I'll just with me the work for a while and
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: see what happened, right, which brings us to Dallas, to Joe. Yeah,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: what's he doing in Dallas.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: I'll get to that in a second. I want to
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: ask you one question. Yes, this is a hypothetical, so
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: obviously we know kind of Oswald kind of took himself
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: into the hornet's nest by trying to infiltrate the anti
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: Captital Cubans in New Orleans. Right, He after around and
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: found out type of thing. Do you think that if
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: he never, say, approached Ernessa Rodriguez first at the Burleish
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: Language School and then bring A tried to offer them
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: training and whatnot, that they would have come at him
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: as hard or would they be like, this is just
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: some stupid gringo on the street with some Fidel plock
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: rod over his head.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: You know, I don't think they were pissed, and I
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: think you don't know the whole story, But.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: Would they have been as pissed if he didn't try
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: to dupe them.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: No, But again, I don't think that we have been
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: told the entire story. I agree, because I think there
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: was some fuckery going on or his painting his bar
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: as well with Oswald and the Cuban xiles mm hmm yeah,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 4: and and you know whatever was going on there. I
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: don't think the entire story of Oswald versus the Quban
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 4: exiles has been told. Yes, question is nobody nobody pays
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: any attention to it? Yeah, because Thekfuda told it. But
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: THISA has uh corroborating things in the I n s
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: to back up a story.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: So yeah, Like I said, I think there's more to
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: this story. It's just we've only been privy a part
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: of it until we've started putting the puzzle pieces together
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: for this thing. And trust me, trust me when I
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 4: tell you you're not gonna want to go anywhere for when
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: it comes back to me, because I got some mind
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 4: blowing ship for you. Okay, as you don't, so don't
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: go anywhere. I'm telling you what I have to show you.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: Sounds good. Well. I was kind of tasked for my
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: segment to talk about whether Lee ever did some pamphlet, pamphlet, pamphleting, leaflifting,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: leaf ship, leaf flitting, and Dallas other than New Orleans,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: because of course we know all about his New Orleans activities.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: We know Miami was kind of the cute the focal
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: point of the Cuban exile community with am Wave and
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: everything like that, but we don't hear much about the
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: presence of Cuban exiles in Dallas. So I found some
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: interesting things drop. If you want to put it up,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: I think it's ready on.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 4: The yeah, and real quick. This is why when we
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: get to the point of what if Salvat was one
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: of these Mexicans or I'm sorry, Cuban that came with
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 4: Oswald to Odio's house right now, Stilvia Odio would later
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: become a Dre supporter once she moved to Miami for
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: some reason, just saying and so even if it was
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: Salvat that came to her house, she would never say
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 4: it was now right.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: She wouldn't want to undermine the uh, you know, the
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: Cuban effort in a sense, right, And I believe she
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: said that as much right, and so.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: Did father McCann. He believed that even if she knew
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: who came to her doors. He wouldn't say right right,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: and U Joe's I think here here all right?
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: So this is Oswalt's letter to the Fair Play for
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: Cuba Committee, April nineteenth, nineteen sixty three. And let's put
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: this in context. We have the walker shooting on the tenth,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: not saying Lee was involved in that. We have his
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: uh Texas Deployment Commission guaranteed sighting on the twelfth, so
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: this would be about a week later. This would be
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: before he left for New Orleans. This is what Lee
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: says to the FPCC. Deer says, I do not like
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: to ask for something for nothing, that I am unemployed,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: which we know he was. Since I am unemployed, I
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: stood yesterday for the first time in my life with
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: a placod around my neck, passing out fair Play for
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: Cuba pamphlets, etc. I only had fifteen or so, which
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: is not very much. By the way, in forty minutes
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: they were all gone. I was cursed as well as
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: praise by some. My homemade placard said hands off Cuba,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: Viva fiden. I now ask for forty or fifty more
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: of the fine basic pamphlets. Fourteen I don't know if
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: it's fourteen inch or something, probably signed the Javi Oswalt.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: Do we have a date for this letter or not?
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: April nineteenth is the date, although it is not dated.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: It's the alleged date according to various sources.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: That's weird. It is weird because that's right before they
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: supposed they moved to New Orleans, like literally within days, correct,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: So why would he leave his PO But I guess
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: he was hoping on the mail getting forwarded to him
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: in New Orleans maybe right.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, we know he went to New Orleans and
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: did the whole post po box forwarding thing, and then
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: we know he did it back when he left New
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: Orleans back to Dallas. But yeah, this is according to
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: my research in the last few days, this is when
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: it was written. So and I think it's it says
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: Exhibit sixty one.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: It might be a warp Michigan up there in the
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: blue right at the top. April nineteenth, robby dumbfuck okay,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 4: never mind, Oh.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my my writing. Yeah that's my title. But yeah,
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: that that is what I was able to ascertain based
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: on posts and documents and stuff like that.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: But again, this is before he went to New Orleans
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: before he went to New Orleans and started doing the
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: same thing.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: Correct. So Rob and I had the interesting discussion after
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: members only because we've all heard the rumor that Lee
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: Harvey Oswald did do some pamphleting in Dallas at some point.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: There is not a lot of hard evidence that says
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: it was, but some of the evidence that I found
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: was going to be explored here. It's obviously not conclusive,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: like any thing in this case. This is FBI Memo
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: Day of the assassination, Night of the assassination to Assistant
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: Special Agent in Charge EH with a round. This is
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: to record instructions and preparations made in connection with the
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: assassination of the President. Expector j R. Maalley, Investigative Division
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: of the Bureau, stated that Secret Service had asked the
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: Bureau to do anything it could in connection with this matter,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: and that the Dallas Commission Division had been instructed to
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: run any possible logical lead out of out thoroughly and immediately.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: He said this also applied to other field divisions, and
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: that later on the night of eleven, twenty two sixty three,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: a general teletype of instructions would be forthcoming from the Bureau.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: He said that if there was any doubt, he's ascertained.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. He advised that Lee Harvey Oswalt was
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: being given a polygraph interesting examination in Dallas. In view
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: of this possible implication, the general handling of leads in
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: this matter is to be centered on under the responsibility
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: of blah blah blah. Any aspects that have a bearing
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: on the Fair Play for Cuba committee in which Oswald
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: is alleged to be the organizer or chairman in Texas,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: in Texas, not in New Orleans, are to be handled
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: by Section three twelve supervisor something. There should be a
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: close coordination between sections twenty five and three twelve. So
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: did Oswald try to open up an FPCC committee thing
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: in Texas? Well? I came across an interesting article. I'm
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: gonna read it now. This is Can you put this
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: down for a second?
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: Roup, And by the way, I'm just seeing all this
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 4: confusing bullshit in the chat with this MD person. Obviously
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 4: this discussion is above his pay grade. And as you were, sir,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 4: I'm not looking at the chat.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: But I'll take your word that it's kaffusory. I'm going
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: to read an article written by Jeffrey Meek in April
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty. Yeah, who I've met at the past few
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: onceer conferences. He didn't like me at first, right, I
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: think he does now, but who knows.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 4: Don't blame me.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I grow on you right like a bad foot.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: Here we go, thanks, bro uh.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: Like a ball fun It continue on human day alright.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: There are many opinions as to who assassinated JFK. Did
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: Lee have you? Oswald do it alone? Was Oswald working
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: with others? Blah blah blah. Now, almost sixty years later,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: it's not likely we'll ever know for sure. Smoking gun
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: document spelling out what happened very likely does not and
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: never did exist. But the tentacles that reach from the
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: os out from Oswald in many directions, CIA Mafia Cubans
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: are the most likely culprits. And this is going to
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: lead into the harlem Dale house that I have and
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: the presence of the Cuban exile community in Dallas. A
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: point of interest has resurfaced again of late, that being
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: of a November twenty second, nineteen sixty through report made
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: by Dallas County Sheriffs Debt Department Deputy Buddy Walters and
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: his report. I think this is the next told them
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: I may as well put it up at a house
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: at three one two eight Harlandale. Some Cubans have been
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: having meetings on the weekends. Were possibly connected to the
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: quote Freedom for Cuba party, of which Oswalt was a member.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: Walter's got the name wrong, of course. Who corrected him
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: on that? Jack Woby, Jack Wilby, that would be the
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: fair Play for Cuban Committee. As he crouched in his
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: fake glasses in the back.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 4: Correcting hand, we waved, not Buddy Walter.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Oswalt was a self proclaimed
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: member of the fair Play for Cuba Committee, which she
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 3: set up all in New Orleans and the summer of
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: sixty three. He added that the informant told him on
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: November twenty sixth, that sixty three, that someone between seven
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: days before Kennedy was shot and the day after he
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: was shot, these Cubans moved from this house again. This
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: is the Harlandale house. My informant stated that Oswalt had
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 3: been to this house before. Walters did not say who
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: this informant was. That many years later, in the liberalone
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: book by Eric tagg Tag titled Brush with History, a
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: day in the life of R. Walther's He identified the
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: informant to extent that tag said Walters told him the information.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: This information by his mother in law, who was unnamed
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: in the book. How could she possibly know, he asks.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: Mister Meek asked, because she lived on Harlandale. The book
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 3: states that she had been noticing the comings and goings
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 3: of a group of Cubans on her block that got
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: her often for political meetings in the house of three
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: one two six, Harlandale. Tay got much of his information
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: directly from the Walters family. Doing research on answer stry
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: dot com and find a Grave dot com, I learned
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: that Walter's mother was mother in law was Lillian Robinson,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: who died in twenty seventeen. I contacted Take to conferred
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: in this, which she did. He told me that Walters
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: was contacted the evening of the assassination, saying that Oswalt
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: had been at the Harondale House. Harlandale House. I'm sorry
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: in the prior weeks and month she recognized Oswalt when
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: he was shown on television. Robinson was the only, not
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: the only one with information on the Harlandale House. According
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: to Dirty Dick, rob Your Boy and the Man who
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 3: Knew too Much. Texas reporter Lonnie Hudkins, along with former
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: Look magazine editor T. George Harris, had found people in
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: the Little Cuba area of Dallas that said Oswalt and
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: others had attended a nighttime party at Harlandale on November twentieth,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: so that would have been what Wednesday night with the assassination.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: Before the assassination, Walters discovered the house was rented by
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 3: Manuel Roderiguez A. Scott Beerl, a leader of the violent
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: anti Castro organization organization called Alpha sixty six. It has
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: been suggested by a few sources that Acnbereto was mistaken
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: for Oswalt, but looking at photos of Alcoberretro on the internet,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: one sees they do not look like alike at all,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: The book says Walters also learned that members of the
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: Student Revolutionary Directorate, also known as the Diary, also participated
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: in the meeting. Federal document show that the Diary was
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 3: being funded with up to fifty one thousand dollars a
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: month in sixty three. Not only that, but is known
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 3: that when Oswald was in New Orleans and August sixty three,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: he visited and later got into a fight, you know.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. Oswald wrote to the head of the
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: fpcc V T Lee on August one about a street
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: demonstration fight, but the fight in play take place until
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 3: days later in August ninth, and I believe rob the
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: letter was August first with Carlos Bregne, leader of the
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: diary in that city. Case officers George Journies, we all
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: know this. Walter's November twenty three report also states that
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: he spoke with the head of the Dallas Secret Service
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: for Sorels about this discovery. There was a Secret Service
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: report dated April twenty four to sixty four from Sorel
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: to Jamie Rankin this report is information about Kobdo, but
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: there is no mention of the Harlan Dell House. Goes
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: into a lot of more information, but let me just
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: read this document here since I've hadded up for a
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: couple of minutes, and this is a supplementary investigation report
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: by DPD officer Buddy Walther's detective missed a Decca at
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: about eight am this morning, while in the presence of
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: Alan Sweat, I talked to Sawdrels for sorts of the
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 3: Secret Service the head of the Dallas Secret Service. I
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: advise him that for the past few months at a
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: house at three one two Eightdale, some Cubans had been
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: having some meetings on week ends and were possibly connected
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: with the quote Freedom for Cuba body of which Oswalt
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: was a member. This is now eleven twenty sixth granted
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: the name supplemental report. I don't know what action the
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: Secret Service has taken, but I learned today that sometime
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 3: between seven days before the President was shot and the
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: day after he was shot, these Cubans moved from this house.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: My informants stated that the subject Oswalt had been to
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: this house before. So Rob, this is a problem. This
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 3: is a problem. We have some more things on the
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: Harlan Doell House and on Alpha sixty six. You know,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: the Cubans needed interpreters. I'm not going to really go
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 3: through this that much. We talked about the Treasury Agent
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: Frank Ellsworth before on the show. I know, Rob, he
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: kind of comes into this a little bit in the
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: Harlan Dell House, but it kind of goes on. But Rob,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 3: this is an example of when we talk about the
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: Dallas Cuban exile community in Dallas This was a picture
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 3: allegedly of one of the meetings. Now we don't know
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 3: if this was a d RE meeting or an Alpha
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 3: sixty six meeting, but there's allegedly these three guys in
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: the front, and this would be the guy they're talking
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 3: about here. Down on the below would be Manuel Cruz
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: of the d Allegedly, this would allegedly be one of
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: the Audio sisters, either Annie or Sorita. I do not
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: know which one, but it is alleged that she's on
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: the left of this picture here, that she is one
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: of the people that have attended these meetings. And actually
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: Sylvia Odio did mention that one of her sisters did
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: attend these meetings, so who knows. As you can see,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: this is a packed meeting. Bro, there's quite a lot
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: of people here.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 4: Well, they can't see I'm back. Oh okay, I was
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: missing an action apparently for a little bit.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: Oh you were, I'm sorry.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I got booted off the World Wide Web. It happens, man,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 4: somebody's listening.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're getting too close to the.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 4: Here's your picture, folks, I got it up now, Joe
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 4: Prey continuing.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this is allegedly one of these meetings
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: in the fall of sixty three of it's either some
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: people say it's alf of sixty sixty six, sixty six.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. Some people say it's diary and this. You know,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: we're going to get into the document that says Solvak
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: game in October thirteenth. But allegedly the woman I left
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: here could be one of the audio sisters, and the
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 3: person on the bottom here could be one Manuel Cruise,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: although we know how it is with document or with
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: pictures and identification, who the hell knows, but kind of
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 3: looks like it based on the three images up here.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 4: That would who is Manuel Cruise?
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: Some of the dude that was arrested at.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 4: The practice, I mean Miguel Cruise.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 3: Miguel Manuel Cruse I believe is his name it? Yeah, okay,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: So I mean that looks legit to me. What do
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: I know? His ears are huge, which is a huge
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 3: giveaway here.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 4: If that is Miguel Cruz from New Orleans, that's a problem.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 3: That's a problem. And again I don't know the date
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: of this picture. I don't know whether it's Alpha sixty
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 3: six or a DRE meeting, But just to kind of
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 3: showcase how the Cuban exile community. Y was very active
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 3: in Dallas. Right, there's I don't know, maybe seventy ish
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: people there, maybe close to one hundred, I don't know.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: Very interesting. I thought this was and I found this
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 3: on the education forum, So take that as what you will.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 3: But interesting, R.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 4: Very interesting.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: There was a big you know, we always think jam
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: wave obviously Miami being the hub New Orleans, but even
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: the DEORI had how many delegates in New Orleans are one? Exactly? Well,
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 3: we think about it as being a big hub because
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 3: of the fractice and listen, I'm not saying it wasn't
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: you know a popular spot. We obviously know Lee Harvey
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 3: Oswalt was discouraged from creating a chapter there, right, But
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 3: no one thinks about Dallas as being a type of hub,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: and I think it was. And a lot of these
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 3: people were traveling, a lot of these people were raising money,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 3: giving talks, et cetera.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 4: So and we know there was a big Cuman community there.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: I thank you to Father McCann and Sylvie Odio.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 4: And I also believe Joe in the in the un
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 4: overlaid photo here. I don't know if you have the
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 4: original photo just by itself or somebody's kaffoos is up
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 4: for you.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 3: Someone there.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 4: Oswald is allegedly in the in the background or another
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: photo of this.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, that is also in the in the
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: education forum thread. It was so grainy and you couldn't
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: tell anything. I didn't think it was worth showing. But
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: it is alleged that Oswald was at one of these meetings.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 4: I like, I like the dude sitting next to the
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: alleged audio with his with his big long cigarette holder.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: Is that what it is?
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what looks like to me. You know, one
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 4: of them guys that smokes it smokes it like this.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: Before the good old days of the cigarettes and end vapes.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean listen, I mean you could see,
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 3: you know, these meetings were lightly attended. I don't see
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 3: a blank seat. I mean I overlaid attended. Yeah. So,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: like there's a significant group in Dallas, and a lot
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 3: of them met at the Harlandale House. And we just
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: showed Buddy Walter's day after report on a Lever twenty
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: three saying he heard from his informant that Oswald was
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 3: attending these meetings. So can you tell Oswald from this picture?
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: Probably not, obviously not, but is it possible. Sure, I
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: don't know. You don't know what he was up to,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 3: but you have to think if Manuel, if this is
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: Manuel Cruz or Miguel Cruz, I'm sorry, and Oswald was
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: there after the fractice, that would be problem yeah, righty, yes,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: So now we're going to go to an interview with
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 3: miss Anna Sylvadia of the DRE. Miss oh my god,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: let me try to read this, miss Anna Slovadia age.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 4: I think this is eighteen tender age of eighteen. She's legal,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: barely legal.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 3: A member of the DRE advised that she had gone
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 3: to Dallas, Texas from Miami, Florida for an open meet
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: meeting of the DRI in that city, held on October thirteenth,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: sixty three. So do I know if this picture I
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 3: just showed was from that meeting or from a different one. No,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 3: I have no fucking idea.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 4: What says that the meeting was at the Dreyfus Club,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 4: not the Harlandale House.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, but do we know if if that was the
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 3: Harlandale House or the drivers.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 4: Allegedly it was the Harlandale House.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: Meetings that meeting at the picture I just showed, Yes, okay, leuch,
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 3: And she estimated about seventy persons attended this meeting.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 4: That's a lot, It's a lot.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 3: She said. In a second meeting. A second meeting was
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: held at eight pm October thirteenth in a conference room
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: over a bank and a shopping center at Dallas, and
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 3: this meeting was for English speaking persons, and she asked
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: tomated about thirty attendants. She stated that these meetings had
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 3: previously been advertised at Dallas in order to give the
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: interested public an opportunity to hear discussion by DARI members
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 3: of the Cuban situation. So, of course, Rob, this is
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 3: the propaganda arm.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 4: Well you you would also think that if they advertised
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: these meetings in Dallas, Oswald, being a prolific newspaper reader
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 4: that he was, even if it was a day late,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 4: might have known about these meetings.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and he might have skipped his I think his
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 3: type in class was back in the spring or you know, April.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 3: But yeah, he would have come up with some excuse
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: and be like peace. I mean, unless he wasn't even Liveryburg,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: so we wouldn't even have to go up with the excuse.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 4: But yeah, he was working with the was it the
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: other rooming house, the first one, Mary Bledsoe. Yeah at
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 4: this time.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Miss Villeva stated that at the meeting of October thirteenth,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 3: the shed paper was passed among the attendees. Of those
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: who were interested in receiving the bi weekly English language publication,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 3: the Cuban Report, which is composed by the DRI in Miami,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 3: were requested to furnish their name and address. She stated
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 3: she also made note of their names and those individuals
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 3: president who made contributions to the diary at the meeting.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 3: Miss Sylvieira stated she had the list at the office
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: of the DRAY in Miami and that she was relatively
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 3: certain that the name of Lee Harvey Oswald was not
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 3: included on the list. Of course, I don't think Oswalt
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: would have given donations really.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 4: On the list. It could have been a Jydel on
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 4: the list.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 3: I have the list in a second photo of Oswalt
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: after the since the assassination, and its relatively is certain
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: he was not not among those president at the meeting. Again, deary,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 3: of course members are going to deny that.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 4: Right, especially if they're sitting his ass up right.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 3: On December twenty third, sixty three, Miss Sylvadia was contacted
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 3: at the year the offices, at which time she made
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 3: available the list of those attended the meeting on October
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 3: thirteen sixty three. There's a typewritten list, and Miss Salvidia
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 3: explained that she had disposed of the original paper bearing
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: the names and addresses, which didn't pass the audience in Dallas.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 4: I'm that convenient.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, this list made available by miss Salvidia, and I
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 3: don't recognize anything. I think Joseph Kennedy's name is ironic.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: I don't think Joseph Kennedy was there.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 4: He was kind of Joseph D. Kennedy, I know, but
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: What I mean Donovan, which I believe was an FBI agent.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 3: But I don't think these names line up. But they
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 3: give the donation list, right, So this what's the first name?
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 3: The Lee Baker, mister something Baker or two hundred and
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 3: fifty bucks. That's a lot of money. You know, all
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 3: these Kufusas are given five dollars.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 4: That's like twenty five hundred dollars back then at least.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have a bunch of other people. So this is.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 4: The box is like a hundred bucks, fifteen bucks, one
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 4: hundred and fifty bucks, one hundred bucks, like a thousand.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 3: So, like I said, when we're talking about the Cuban
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: exile community in Dallas, it's kind of significant, right, I mean,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 3: not that all these guys, I mean, but even five
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: bucks is like fifty sixty bucks. Like that's a lot
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: to give to a you know, I go to church.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 3: They passed around the baskets. I give like five bucks,
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: and that's today, you know what I mean?
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 4: Right, whatever, I don't know.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: It's interesting. I thought this list was interesting. It continues
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: missed so that I pointed out at the last nine
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 3: names on the list were the last names of the
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 3: individuals who attended a meeting at the area in fort Worth, Texas,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: held at approximately five pm October twentieth, So now we're
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 3: going from the thirteenth to twentieth at a bank near
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 3: fort Worth on the expressway running from fort Worth. She
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: said that there was English speaking persons and had been
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: requested by someone someone blah blah blah, what attended the meeting.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 4: That was the people that gave two hundred and fifty bucks.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 3: Well let's go back LA and FBR. Yeah it could be.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's it's not far off.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Dorothy's nuts. I mean, do you see that at
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 4: the bottom left, Dorothy nuts.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and now we're going to go to an interview
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 3: with Joe Queen Martinez.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 4: D pay tention. We found another one.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 3: Doctor. I don't know if it says doctor here. Padelios,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: aged twenty two. I remember a lot of these dr
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 3: people were very young. Stated he's in charge of publishing
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: the Cuban Report for the DRE in Miami, Florida. He
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 3: stated that Anna Silvadia, who we just read Manuel salvat
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: the ladder, an officer of the DARI and himself, traveled
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: from Miami to Dallas, Texas in October nineteen sixty three
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 3: for the purpose of holding public meetings to inform those
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: interested of the work the Diary has done and hopes
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 3: to do with respect to the Castro regime in Cuba.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 3: Mister p n Pianos stated that Dean Perkins assisted the
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 3: DRI in organizing the meetings and arranging the publicity attached
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 3: to the meetings. He said, that's probably an aliens. This
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: publicity included an appearance on a television station in Dallas
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: and also contact with the Dallas Morning Star, a newspaper
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: published in Dallas. Texas and Rob, I want to go back.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 4: And real quick. Joe also great cover to send Salvat
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 4: there who has actually no business being there. He is
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 4: not with the propaganda arm of the dr he is
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 4: with the operations arm of the DRE. To meet with
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 4: maybe some other Cuban exiles in Dallas and maybe go
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 4: over some plans with them if you have.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point. And Rob, I missed this before.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 3: I didn't miss it earlier, but I just missed it now.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 3: Karen martin Dallas Morning News is on this list that
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 3: miss Anna Silvadia provided, So maybe she was helping out
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 3: as well with the with the meetings and arranging publicity.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: Right, So, like I said, we're talking about what the
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: scafusa's in the Cuban ex community were up to, and
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 3: they were up to a lot in the fall. This
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 3: is the rest of the document, mister Pinillos stated Miss
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: Sylvia and himself addressed the English speaking audience which attended
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 3: the d Are meetings. You said, and we're talking about
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: raising funds, right, and how they might have been on
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: the verge of losing their funding. So what are you
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 3: gonna do? You're gonna try to secure new funding, right,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: That's what I would do. He said that in addition
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 3: to the meetings on the evening of October thirteenth in Dallas,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 3: two meetings were held at the University of Dallas, one
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 3: at South SMU Southern Methodist University shout out John Martin Thorn,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 3: and at some high school in Dallas. He estimated that
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 3: the meetings held in Dallas October thirteenth, approximately fifty to
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 3: sixty people attended the afternoon session, so they had multiple sessions.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 3: It was addressed by Manuel Savat, and approximately twenty five
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: to thirty ten of the evening session. He stated that
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: neither of these meetings did anyone in the audience attempt
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 3: to bring up the debate or agitation. He stated that
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 3: he did not give any close observation to any of
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 3: the English speaking and cannot really state if Lee Harvey
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 3: Oswalt might have been present, But they are looking into this.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 4: Certainly. It's interesting.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now we're gonna go to an interview with Edwin
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 3: Steig Steig by none other.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 4: Than host host Day. This would be Tinky.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 3: December nineteenth, which would be a little less than a
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 3: month after the assassination Edmond el Steig Garland, Texas advised
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 3: he attended a meeting of the DRE held on a
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: Sunday evening at eight pm some time during the month
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 3: of October sixty three. They were almost seventy five persons present.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 3: It was held at the first Federal Savings and Loan
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 3: Association Conference room in the North Lake Shopping Village in Dallas, Texas.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 3: Steek stated that he had sat in the back of
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: the room and listened to several speakers who talked about
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 3: this situation in Cuba. Steek stated that another individual sat
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 3: in the back of this room who he believes is
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 3: identical with Lee Harvey Oswald. This individual spoke to no
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 3: one but merely listened and then left, which again would
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 3: kind of make sense of why he wasn't on the
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 3: silverdia's list, right. Mister Steek stated that most of the
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 3: person's presence signed a guest roster which was taken by
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 3: Miss Sarah Castillo, who held some position with the dra
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 3: Well who is Miss Sarah Castillo?
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 4: Well, by the way, Joe, let me just add this
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 4: was this was held the North Lake Village shopping centers,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 4: and oh, by the way, who lived around North Lake
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 4: in Dallas. That would be Lucille canell m and that's
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 4: also where they hill the General Walker John Martino.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 3: Speech, Yeah, and funny the.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 4: North Lake village.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 3: Funny you bring up Walker. Miss Sarah's Castillo Valley Ridge Drive,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: Texas Advice. She at one time was secretary for the
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 3: Dre of Cuba and on Sunday, October thirteenth, sixty three,
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: at eight pm, her organization held a meeting in the
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 3: Assembly room, the place we just talked about, Miss Castillo stated.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 3: Among the visitors present was former General Edwin A. Walker.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 3: Miss Castillo stated she does not recall Lee Harvey Oswall
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 3: being president at this meeting, but she did not observe
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 3: all the visitors. Of course, if he's in the back,
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 3: he probably would have. Miss Castillo stated that most of
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 3: the person's presence signed a guest roster which was forward
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: to Miss Anna Silvieta, who'd gone over, who was with
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 3: the d Aria as well and lives in Miami, Florida.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: So interesting that Hosty is doing a lot of these interviews.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: Very interesting that Walker is there, and we talk about
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: a lot, maybe at nauseum to how a lot of
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 3: these groups had cross purposes when it came to Cuba.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: The far right, which consisted of Minutemen and Walker and
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 3: people like that, did not want Communist Nation ninety miles
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 3: off our shore. The Cuban exiles wanted to get rid
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 3: of Castro, the mafiosos wanted to get their casinos back,
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: and the CIA wanted kind of all three of those.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: So you could see how a group could have came together.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying all of them, but for their aligned interests. Right, Yes,
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 3: you could take that down now, but I thought that
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 3: was very interesting to kind of highlight what was going.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: On in Dallas with Dallas, right, because.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 3: We don't we don't really talk about the exiles in Dallas,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 3: you know, we talk a lot about the white Russian
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 3: community and and things like that. But just because it's
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 3: not as publicized as say New Orleans or j M
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 3: Wave in Miami, doesn't mean it wasn't active. And if so,
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: that a BSD, a big swinging you know what of
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 3: the dri is going there and talking multiple times had
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 3: to be of some importance.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's the head of the operation part of
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 4: the d R, not the propaganda part, So again it
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 4: could have been perfect cover for him to make that
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 4: trip to Dallas under the under the you know, the
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 4: auspice of well, I'm just giving him speech, you know,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 4: blah blahlah blah, but really be there to do something
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 4: else as well. That's a really good point, which brings
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 4: us back to how did this rifle the lee Harvey
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 4: Oswald legendly ordering the aliens of Ajhydel get to Dallas
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 4: and get into the school book depository. Joe, Yes, because
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 4: what's a problem. So you can imagine a scenario if
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 4: he traveled from New Orleans with two Cuban exiles and
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 4: a rifle, because again, he didn't take a rifle to
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 4: Mexico and Marina and Ruth said that there was no
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 4: rifle on the trunk, correct, So if you can imagine
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 4: this scenario where he accompanies two Cuban exiles to Silviodio's
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 4: house for whatever reason. And again remember Augustine Gitart is
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 4: Silviodio's uncle. Okay, keep that in mind as well. It
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 4: wouldn't have been like a mere coincidence, if you will, right,
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 4: Augustine Guitart would have known that his dear sweet niece
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 4: Sylvia had some mental issues, some financial issues, some marital issues.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: Definitely, and.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 4: Could have included her as part of this plan, unknowing.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 3: The four kids to boot.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 4: Right. But you can imagine a scenario like I said,
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 4: the rifle makes its way to Dallas with Oswald and
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 4: the two Cuban exiles. Oswald goes to Mexico, the t
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 4: Cuban exiles go their own way in Dallas somewhere, right,
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 4: maybe the problems meeting up later.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 3: We'll hold on to it for you.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's all right, go ahead down there, We'll hang
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 4: on to it for you when you get back. What
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 4: you know, you have it back? Well, you know, it's
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 4: not like it's it's very hard to track people down
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 4: that don't want to be found in nineteen sixty three
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 4: in the city decides of Dallas. Right, unless you know
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 4: where they live, you know their phone number? Good luck? Right,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 4: And it was you know, a cheap rifle anyway, whatever, Right,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 4: So say these Cubans still have a j. Higdell's rifle
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 4: right now, they have a weapon to frame the Patsy with. Right.
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 4: And of course at this time, he still has not
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 4: gotten a job at the school with depository. He hadn't
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 4: even come back to live in Dallas yet. He had
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 4: to go to Mexico first, and then come back. But
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 4: they would have known this because they traveled with him
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 4: and likely were communicating with him and knew of his
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 4: plans to go to Mexico and try to go to Cuba,
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 4: and they probably figured correctly that it's not going to happen. Right,
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 4: He's gonna have to come back to Dallas. Right, They're
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 4: not gonna let him go to Cuba. That's insane. And
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 4: let me behold, he ends up coming back to Dallas.
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 4: So now they have a rifle that they can use
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 4: to either participate in the assassination with or use to
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 4: frame Oswald, right, Joe, Yeah, I mean and.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 3: If you think of a situation where that happened like
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 3: you described it, Oswald goes to Mexico, tries to get
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 3: to Cuba as unsuccessful, he gets back to Dallas, and like,
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 3: have you ever had a flaky friend that you called
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: that just an answer a certain points? Yeah, that could
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 3: have been these guys, these exiles.
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they could have been an anti castro Cuban xiles
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 4: posing as procastro Cuban xile.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that is the important part to consider it,
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 3: because I really do think they were posing as procastro.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 4: Right, So now one must figure Okay, they're watching Oswald.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 4: They come to find out that he's working at the
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 4: book depository, and it's possibly going to be close to
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 4: a motorcade route from love Field to this luncheon that
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 4: was announced way before the motor cave was announced. Right,
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 4: So yeah, looking at a map of Dallas, you can figure, Okay,
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 4: these are the airports, These are the most logical ways
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 4: to get someplace, right, and assume that hopefully he likely
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 4: would have at least even if even if Joe the
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 4: limousine had continued straight right down Main Street and not
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 4: made the right and then the left on the Elm,
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 4: even if it would stayed on the main road like
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 4: they cut the road off for whatever reason and let
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 4: them keep continuing down Main Street or even Commerce Street
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 4: to get to the Stemens Freeway, that he could still
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 4: be touched by a rifle shot in Daily Plaza. He
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 4: doesn't have to be on Elm Street, right, Yeah, well,
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 4: you know you you wonder about these things. How okay,
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 4: if you were to possibly frame Oswald get the rifle
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 4: into the school book depository, how enough are you going
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 4: to do that? Right? Well, let me share my screen, Joe, let.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 3: Me share my screen. Yes, thank you, James. We're trying.
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 3: We're trying to.
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 4: Put this together, coming together.
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 3: It's coming together. We're getting there.
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 4: Please okay, Joe. This is a photo of some various
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 4: inter Pin members. In the background, we have.
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 3: Put it back up? Please? What put it back up?
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 4: What do you mean put it up up?
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 3: No, it went up and then it went down. Mm hmm.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 4: All right, now it's down. You know what the hell's
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 4: going on here?
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm just saying it came down after
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 3: you put it up. There you go, you're good.
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 4: Okay. In the background, we have Steve Wilson standing against
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 4: the pole. In the back row Ed Collins wearing the
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 4: hat mustache Ronald puonste Leone Oswald look alike, allegedly. Right
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 4: here behind him, you have the tall Jerry Patrick Hemming right,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 4: and beside him you have short fat Larry Lawrence Howard.
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 3: Fat Larry if you will wait, Hemming is the one
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 3: all the way in the backpack, Yeah, the very tallest one, okay.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 3: And Howard would be the guy with the goatee and
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 3: the hat.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, to his right, yes, okay, yes, that's fat Larry
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 4: Lawrence Howard, all right. And now right in front of
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 4: Lawrence Howard with this fellow here with the flight jacket
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 4: on and the sunglasses. M hm is a fellow by
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 4: the name of Remigio Cuckoo arse oh okay, And the
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 4: man behind him is Ronald Augustinovich, who I think looks
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 4: most like Oswald out of this whole group.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 4: Okay at a glance, right, yeah, all right. Now Here
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 4: in the foreground you have Roy Hargraves on the left
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 4: or Louis Stephen Witt, whatever you want to call him,
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 4: right and looks like he has like he's gonna punch
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 4: or somebody.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 4: This is Joe Garman in the in the the jean
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 4: jacket looking thing with the funky shirt. All right, These
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 4: are members inter pin in the center.
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 4: Remember the name Remigio Cuckoo RSE.
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 3: What was this? What was this cuckoo?
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 4: Because he's crazy, man, he's fucking crazy though, you know,
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 4: I'm Cuckoo brother Cuckoo for the Cuckoo Boss. All right.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 4: Here is what Ramisio Cuckoo r S Meeting with Frank Sturgis.
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, that is definitely.
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 4: Maybe you've heard of him. Yeah, what looks like they're
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 4: on a boat, right.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks like it might be docked, but they're
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 3: definitely on a boat.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, likely in Florida. I mean we got palm
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 4: trees and shit in the background, right.
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Sturgis was known to live in Florida.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, here's another image on a boat in a boat
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 4: talking to Sturgis. Again, this is Ramisio Cuckoo, are saying, right.
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 3: Inter penn member, he was right, yes, Okay, Now I'm
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 3: not too familiar with them, That's why I'm asking.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 4: Allegedly, all right, Frank Sturgis formed the anti Communist Brigade
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 4: of the Caribbean.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, maybe Scott maybe.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 4: The anti Communist Brigade of the Caribbean, and inter Pin
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 4: was a subset of that. Now, of course there was
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 4: no love lost between Himming and Sturgis, but I believe
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 4: at one point they were okay with each other until
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 4: things fell apart.
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 3: Was that what guy banished her was no.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 4: Two totally different things.
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, Okay.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 4: Now let's move forward to November twenty second, nineteen sixty
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 4: three and the arrest of members of the floor crew
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 4: who were working on the sixth floor that day laying
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 4: new floor. Okay, you can see Shelley Shelley random fat scafuzo.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 4: We don't know who is. Yeah, I don't know who
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 4: that is, but he's definitely watching.
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 3: I think I know where you're going here.
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Bonnie Ray Williams right here. Okay, this is Bonnie
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 4: Ray and his nice clean shirt an chicken, grease and
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 4: shit all over. Right and right behind Bonnie Ray is
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 4: a fellow by the name of Danny. Yes, okay, Now
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 4: look at this jacket this motherfucker's got on. Okay, it
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 4: is long, Joe.
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, trench coat style, Yeah, perfect length.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 4: Don't you think Joe to maybe hide a rifle inside
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 4: of and sneak into the building with.
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 3: Look that, some bitches, I'd say that be more plausible
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 3: than some plastic bag bullshit.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 4: Well, even if it was wrapped in a bag. Okay, right, right, right,
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 4: but you definitely fit a rifle in that fucking coat,
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 4: right right.
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: It'd be interesting to know how ar say got into
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 3: the TSBD, if he took like the back ende friends
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 3: or the front every morning. I don't know if that information.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 4: Is available, but well we might get there. Hang on
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 4: a second, okay, okay, this is Danny arsays AFFI David
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 4: in any fact, handwritten statement. I am employed at the text, hey,
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 4: and look at the extent Texas Joe.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 3: Oh, hold on, Oh wow, that's a problem.
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 4: That's a problem. But if you haven't watched our signature
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 4: analysis shows that looks very familiar.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly to what now it would be.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 4: A coincidence, right, who knows? But damn if it don't
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 4: look familiar. Wow, okay, wow, he says. I work all
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 4: over the building. I was working on the sixth floor
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 4: all morning. At lunchtime, around twelve noon, I went down
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 4: on the street to see the parade and get a
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 4: look at the president. I was standing on the corner
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 4: of Elm and Houston. At first, he wrote standing on
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 4: the corner of the building and crossed it out and
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 4: wrote Elman Houston, and I heard three shots ring out.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what had happened until I heard a
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 4: woman scream that the president had been shot. Okay. Now
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 4: we have another version of this statement, and it is typed. Okay,
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 4: and it does include the first part of what we
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 4: just read. Okay, but there's more. While working on the
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 4: sixth floor of the school book Depository, the only people
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 4: I saw all morning was Bill Shelley, Bonnie Ray, Williams,
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 4: Charles Douglas Gibbons. I mean he knows these motherfuckers middles names,
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 4: Charles Douglas Gibbons, Billy Lovelady, and Jack E. Dor. How
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 4: does he know these people's middle names? Man, I don't know.
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 3: I can't remember anyone's names.
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 4: The only person I saw was a real old man
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 4: and he had on an old brown suit and a
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 4: western type hat. I saw this man leave the building
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 4: and drive off in an old black buick. This man
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 4: was not carrying anything in his hands when I saw him.
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 4: This man was in the building after lunch. This man
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 4: left in the car before the president was shot. Okay, well, then,
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 4: who gives a fuck who? This is? Right? I didn't
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 4: see any other people in the building but this old man.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 4: Other than the people that I named at work here,
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 4: there was another employee that I saw named Lee Oswald.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 4: He was on the first floor of the building when
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 4: I saw him at eight am. He is the same
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 4: man I saw the police bring into the homicide bureau
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 4: at about two pm. I also saw him on the
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 4: fifth floor as we were leaving for lunch at eleven fifty,
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 4: which totally contradicts his previous statement In this same document
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 4: at the top that says lunchtime is at twelve noon.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 4: Now he says it's eleven fifty ten minutes is a
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 4: long time when we're talking about seconds here, right, Yeah,
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 4: Danny Garcia arse again spelled the exact same way as
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 4: the inter PEN member.
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 3: Right, So I'm going to ask the obvious question. Yeah,
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 3: is there any relation? Rsey not a common name?
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 4: Really, no, not a common name. Okay, so there may
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 4: be some familial relation here. Now again, look at this
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 4: dude's black coat. How long it is? It is down
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 4: to his freaking knees. Okay. If you want to sneak
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 4: away from into the building, this is the jacket you're
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 4: gonna wear to do it. Okay, Yeah, No, it's not
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 4: that hot. What do you do?
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 3: It's not in November in Connecticut or New York.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 4: Right now again, so these are INTERPEN personnel training. It
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 4: the name key that are unidentified. Look at this mother
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 4: second motherfucker here? Wow, tell me that don't look a
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 4: hell of a lot like Danny r say.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 3: It does without like the little beardsh thing.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's there's no beer. Yeah yeah. Look at this
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 4: cafuza behind Danny RSA with the floppy hat on. Yeah,
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 4: and he has a mustache, right yeah, Okay, Now let's
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 4: go to an unidentified spectator in daily Plaza right here,
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 4: and then look at this guy on the right, another
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 4: interpend member.
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 3: He has the same mean mug and like little downward
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 3: thing of his eyes almost.
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if he shaved his mustache. I mean, he's got
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 4: the same chin thing going on below his lip. You know,
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 4: his lip looks the same, his chin, same jutting chin,
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 4: same brow ridge you know.
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, he has the same mug.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 3: For lack of a better term, but uh, and of
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 3: course you would shave if or grown out. But if
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 3: you usually grow it out, then you'd shave.
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 4: Or if you usually had a mustache, you'd shave. Yeah,
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 4: right now, Okay, that's a that's for later. What do
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 4: you think about that.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 3: Joe, Uh, I think we need to do some ancestry digging,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 3: This is what I think.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 4: Now. So this dude had access to the sixth floor
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 4: all morning long. Yeah, he never mentions how he got
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 4: into the building. When he came into the building, if
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 4: anybody saw him coming into the building, But if he
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 4: had that fucking code on, Okay, even if he didn't
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 4: do it that day, right, he'd been working up on
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 4: the sixth floor all week.
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 3: That was gonna be My point is it didn't even
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 3: need to.
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 4: Happen on You could have brought that rifle in there
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 4: and dropped it in the middle of those palettes all
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 4: the way on the other side of the sixth floor, right.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 4: Nobody would ever find it unless they really are looking
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 4: for it, right, like the cops after something happened, right.
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 3: Right, doert He's not going to go looking for it.
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 4: Because it doesn't make sense that Bonnie Ray Williams is
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 4: up there eating his chicken sandwich and smoking a cigarette
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 4: in front of the window as late as twelve fifteen
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 4: to twelve twenty five, and you don't look over to
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 4: your left and see os walled in the fucking corner,
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 4: not making a sound, quiet as a church mouse, right
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 4: for ten or fifteen minutes.
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, trying to sight your rifle or whatever.
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 4: Nay, nay, no, no, sir, no story.
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, I agree.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 4: You wouldn't have seen nothing except stacked up boxes, right
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 4: because they were they had to move all these boxes
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 4: out of the middle of the floor because they were
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 4: replacing the floor. Again, this is not a sniper's nest.
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 4: It was constructed that way because they were moving all
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 4: the boxes to the edges of the building so they
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 4: could work on the floor. It just so happens at
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 4: windows on the walls of a building. Okay, now you're
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 4: not gonna stack boxes up right at the window, because hey,
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 4: you might need to open the window because it gets
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 4: fucking hot in there because there's no air conditioning. So
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying, all somebody had to do to frame
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 4: Oswald was get our say, to take this rifle into
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 4: the school book depository and hide this motherfucker somewhere on
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 4: the sixth floor. Throw a couple of shells down on
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 4: the floor that hey, Bonnie Ray wouldn't have seen, right
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 4: because he's not looking at the floor, right, and they
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 4: were behind other boxes.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 3: Right, it's probably obscured by boxes. What I was gonna say.
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 4: So then again, the ship goes down in Deally Plaza.
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 4: They say, oh, the shots came from the building, you
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 4: know whatever. They searched the building, blah blah blah. They
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 4: tell Oswald to go meet somebody somewhere, so he gets
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 4: the hell out of the building quick. It looks suspicious
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 4: to everybody else, and here we go. Yeah, here we go.
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 4: So you ask, how does this plot come from New
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 4: Orleans to Dallas to frame Lee Harvey Oswald? And we
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 4: are giving you a plausible scenario. We're not saying we're
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 4: one hundred percent right or that we have everything right
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 4: in all the details.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 3: This is just.
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 4: A very loose, plausible scenario that explains a hell of
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 4: a lot of other things. Correct when you're looking at
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 4: the big picture of everything and not just one or
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 4: two small instances of something. When you take into consideration
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 4: how pissed the dre would have been at the CIA,
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 4: why after all this happens. Even if the CIA can
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 4: figure this out really relatively quickly, they would have had
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 4: to cover it up because they're funding the fucking dry
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 4: And if they're the ones that killed Kennedy and it
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 4: got out, that's a problem. That's a big fucking problem.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 3: Yes, and thank you, James. This is Dina. Might I agree.
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 4: I told y'all don't go anywhere. I don't lie.
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 3: No, So.
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 4: That's about as plain as we can lay it out
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 4: to you. Again, if you have more ideas or any
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 4: other facts that might fit in with this, we'd be
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 4: happy to hear them in the comments section. And again.
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 4: We'll be around to discuss this more next Wednesday for
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 4: members only. Yep, Joe, did you have anything else?
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 3: Uh? No, I didn't. I just think, you know, we've
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 3: been uh really on a roll here these last few weeks,
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 3: and you know, we I think in some of the
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 3: comments like we're I don't think we're far off in
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 3: what happened in terms of Oswald being framed, And I
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 3: think it really all goes back to the DRE. And
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 3: I think what you said about Salvat going to Dallas,
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 3: what I think it was. I think Oswald got his
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 3: job at the TSBT the sixteenth, you know, Salvat's there
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 3: on the thirteenth, maybe through the twentieth. There's there's a
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 3: lot to unpack here. And when you when you look
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 3: at motive motive, I think the DRE on the brink
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 3: of losing their funding, and the fanatical people at Skafuz
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 3: involved with the DRE. I think you could easily, very
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 3: plausibly create a scenario of how And I think Oswald
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 3: kind of walked into their trap in a sense. And
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 3: I don't think they'd laid the trap. I think Oswald
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 3: was just kind of naive and right.
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 4: And this also works for you loan nutters out there
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 4: who may be watching the show who believed that Oswald
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 4: was up there in the six four shooting. Okay, all
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 4: it takes is two people in this motherfucker's ear acting
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 4: like they're pro Castro, right to convince him to kill Kennedy.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 4: Maybe a promise of money, because you know Oswald was
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 4: hard up for money. Yeah, he's certainly had the ideology, right,
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 4: if this is really what he believed, If he's really
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 4: truly pro Castro, Lennon Marxist, right, if that's really what
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 4: he is, then ideally he would hate Kennedy. Yeah, and
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 4: who you're doing to Castro in Cuba?
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah? And who knows exactly what his plans were in
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 3: terms of leaving for Cuba. Possibly. Thank you, Mike the libraryman.
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 3: I thought this was a fantastic show as well. But
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 3: we will have part two. If you're not a covert operator,
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 3: what the hell are you doing? Because we have a
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 3: lot of fun on Wednesday nights, and we show videos
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 3: that we're not going to get dinged for copyright wise
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 3: here on Fridays and come hang with us, and yeah,
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 3: we'd be happy to have you.
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 4: And yeah, next Wednesday, We're going to get more into
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 4: frank Sturgists because the story ain't over there.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Rob, I got to make a note of this.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna write it down. We have to. I guess
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 3: I'll have to re up my ancestry account for a
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 3: month to look into census reports and the rsays and
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 3: see if there's any connection between those two, because if
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 3: there was, and we were able to find that, that
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 3: would be a problem. Not for us, it'd be actually awesome,
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 3: but it'd be a problem. Yeah, a huge for the
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 3: official narrative.
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, what is a c eighteen year old Cuban
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 4: dude doing working at the school book depository in nineteen
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 4: sixty three?
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, one, I don't know one hundred percent. Mike
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 3: Libraryman also said, same face, no doubt, as I believe
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 3: he was talking about the pictures you.
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 4: Show, you showed, but yeah, it's crazy man.
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, let's them, guys. There's a lot of
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 3: JFK podcasts out there. Some of them are doing good work,
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 3: some of them are not doing good work. I might
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 3: be biased, but we're the best because we don't plan
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 3: this shut out as in terms of our conclusions. We
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 3: just take it where the things lead us. Rob didn't
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 3: know exactly where I was gonna go. I didn't know
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 3: exactly where Rob was gonna go. And it all ties
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 3: in together perfectly. So become a COVID operator. Guys, Hey,
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 3: my mom's a FN member.
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 4: So I'll try to get the You know, she'd rather
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 4: supports you here financially than in person financially, do you know,
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 4: get your fan ass in here, sir? For the record,
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 4: but he said, there is Ruby looking at that adorable faith.
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 3: Ruby cock Roomed, look at her?
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Roomed, what have you been doing to that dog, Joe?
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 4: She looks like she has panda Yeah, well you've been
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 4: extracting dream of chrome from her.
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 3: The hair was cut from her eyes, so she does
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 3: have panda eyes.
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 4: But where's the baby oil?
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's uh.
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 4: That's right, all right, folks, thanks for hanging with us.
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 4: We hope you enjoyed the show. That's for the usual.
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 4: We love doing it and uh we like that you
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 4: guys hang out here with us. A strong, all tricky night, baby,
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 4: smash the like button on your way out the door
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 4: and share this ship wherever you can. But that the
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 4: right motherfuckers can hear it, and MG do f yourself, sir, and.
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 3: We're yes, and tune in for Quickeets tomorrow, guys.
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, nine a m. Eastern Standard time, Quick hits will
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 4: I'll be going live on this channel. Go hit the
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 4: notification bell so you don't forget. The preview is already
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 4: up and out there. Just look on the channel. You'll
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 4: see that it's up and coming in the morning. So
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 4: set your alarms. I'm gonna have to set mind, that's
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 4: for sure.
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, your boy might be part of the replay group.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna be doing this and drinking coffee. But trust me,
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 4: we got a banger show lined up for you. We're
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 4: gonna be talking Op forty, Frank Sturgis, Carl Jenkins and
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 4: Jean Wheaton and all kinds of crazy shit. So make
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 4: sure you tune in and do not miss it. Well then, Peace,
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 4: have a great night, guys.
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 3: Thank you for joining Peace.