Latest / The Christian Homemaking Podcast: Simply Convivial with Mystie Winckler / Should Christian Homeschoolers Take Government Money? What No One Tells You

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Should Christian Homeschoolers Take Government Money? What No One Tells You · The Christian Homemaking Podcast: Simply Convivial with Mystie Winckler

0:00
Speaker: Welcome to the Christian homemaking podcast, Simply Convivial.
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I'm Misty Winkler, homemaker, homeschooling mom of five,
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grandma, and author of the book Home Is For Hospitality.
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Convivial means living together with joy, and that's the kind of home atmosphere
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that we want to create in our homes
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Especially if we are homeschooling.
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And so today I'm excited to welcome back Lawrence Scott to the podcast.
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Lauren makes her home in the foothills of the Arkansas Ozarks, where she and
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her husband Nathaniel are raising their two teenage boys on the Scriptures,
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living books, the great outdoors and lots of meaningful work experiences.
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Lauren writes about the Christian life, books, and homeschooling
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at keptandkeeping.com,
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where she encourages Christian women to rest in grace and labor in love.
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Lauren is also the secretary and founding board member of Arkansas Homeschool
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Network, a new statewide homeschool organization that aims to support, inform,
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and equip Christian families in their pursuit of independent home education.
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Thank you so much for joining me again today, Lauren.
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Speaker 2: Thanks, Missy.
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I'm glad to be here
1:17
Speaker: I had kind of two motives for having you on for this episode, and one
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is to talk about independent homeschooling because I think it's such a critical issue
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right now, uh, politically and socially that, uh, homeschool families not get
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entangled with taking government money.
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Uh, I think that's very important for the home education movement
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and home education freedom.
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But then also, I think it's such a great example of, um, finding your
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calling as kids get older, it's a stage that is often not talked about, and
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I've seen more and more conversations.
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Maybe it's because I'm also in this stage of graduating students, having
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teenagers, and wondering what's next, or what should I do with this
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experience that I've accumulated?
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Is there, is it any good for anything?
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And so what you are doing right now is such a good example of, uh,
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taking the experience that you've had in homeschooling and using it in
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service of the communities and others.
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So I would just love to hear your story of how you got into, um,
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independent homeschooling to the point of starting a whole state organization.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:41
Well, I like to say that independent homeschooling is what we've always done.
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That's what homeschooling has always been in America since the
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birth of the modern homeschooling movement in the '70s and '80s.
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But even back before that, before the public schools took over,
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education was done independently.
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It was independently funded, and it was independently sourced, and largely it
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was provided by parents in their homes, um, and as they go about their days.
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And so my family has really been one of those traditional homeschool families.
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I've always been a homemaker.
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Uh, we've always lived on one income, uh, my husband working to provide for
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us, and we've always sought to keep our homeschool expenses reasonable in
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full faith that what we are able to provide with the means that God has
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provided will be sufficient, and it has.
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Our kids are excelling, um, they're starting 11th and 9th grades this year.
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Speaker: Wow.
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They're
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Speaker 2: all high school.
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Um, and like the launch pad is just getting way too, way
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too quick on the horizon.
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But, uh, it's been so exciting, and it has â¦ I have wrestled with those
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same questions that you talked about.
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What do I do when this is over?
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I mean, I will cry.
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I will definitely cry.
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Um, but I- I've already been pouring so much into, uh, my local community.
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As my kids have gotten older, um, they're independent in, in their schoolwork.
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I'm overseeing it, I'm checking in, um, I'm honestly able to pa- focus a little
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bit more on my homemaking these days.
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But, um, it's a beautiful thing to see them grow and
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mature and be ready for launch.
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Um, but it did feel like there was this kind of gap on the horizon, and I really
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was not sitting there thinking, I know, I will become a homeschool advocate.
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Let me, let me enter that arena.
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No.
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Um, I like to say actually that for about the first 10 or more
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years of our homeschool journey, I really had my head mostly in the
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sand, and I was very content there.
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Mm.
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Um, if I'm knowledgeable of what's going on in political
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arenas, I will have an opinion.
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And so the safest thing was just to ignore most of that, keep my head
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down, and just try to do a faithful good job in raising my children.
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And I think that was the right thing for that season.
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But where I am now, um, and really it was in 2023 when the LEARNS Act
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passed in Arkansas that established the Education Freedom Account program that
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homeschoolers weren't really asking for.
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We weren't even sure we would be included, and so I was kind of watching this with
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a wary eye because I didn't think that would be good for private schools either.
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Um, but when it opened up to homeschoolers, it was really clear that
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we would be included in the program.
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A friend of mine tapped me and said, "Okay, I know you're kind
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of not enthralled with this.
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Can you research this?"
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Um, and so I like to say, look, the Lord really just dropped this in my lap.
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Um, it was a first s- step was to serve my local community.
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Can you speak a cautionary word on this so that we get to hear both sides of the
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issue and families can actually consider- consider well what to do about this thing
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that's coming, coming available to them.
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Um, and so I, as I started my research, then it got personal 'cause
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my family got hit with a price hike immediately because of the assumption
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that we had thousands upon thousands of extra dollars just for education.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, and so that, that just threw me into researching this even further.
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If it's happening to me, um, then it's going to be
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happening to other people, too.
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Um, and that the mama bear came out a little bit there.
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But we've beenâ¦
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Let's see.
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Get back on track here.
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So as I presented this information to my local community, it really did
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change some, some hearts and minds.
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It opened people's eyes to at least think that there's some things to
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consider here when the government's dangling money on a string, itâ¦
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or carrot on a string, it is not necessarily a good thing.
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It's not necessarily a good thing.
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Um, and so I got to share that message with a lot more people, uh,
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through this Valle sisters podcast.
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It was an awesome opportunity to get that out further, and I've so-
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had so many people tell me that that has deeply impacted them.
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Um, but I was still in the position of not having a single conservative
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organization in my state that shared my views and concerns about- Mm
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the fact that state funding comes with accountability.
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It's taxpayer money.
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There will be strings attached.
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And so feeling like I was alone in this, there was no organization that
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would be a voice for independent conservative homeschoolers.
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Um, and so began to prayerfully consider, well, who could be that voice?
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And the Lord was moving in me, but not just in me.
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There were two other ladies in my state who'd been talking for an extra year
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before I even got, got on this path.
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Um, and then in the end of 2025, beginning of '26, we, we kind of found each other.
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The Lord provided for us to find out what the others were up to.
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We met, um, and have been working out plans ever since.
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And we've added another lady to our team, and I'm thrilled.
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Honestly, these other ladies have more homeschool experience, more nonprofit or
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business management experience than I do.
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And so I couldn't be more thrilled that the Lord has just assembled some really
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fantastic ladies that I honestly get to learn a lot from, um, in this process.
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But we've established the Arkansas Homeschool Network to now be a principled
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homeschool organization, um, looking out particularly for independent
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homeschoolers, making sure that our voices are heard in Little Rock.
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But more than anything, to provide a place for us to be, be able to connect, to help
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educate homeschool parents, um, not just on the politics of things, but just on how
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to homeschool well to the glory of God.
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And so some of our key principles, um, we operate from a biblical worldview.
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We believe in parental authority, that God gives children to parents.
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And so they are the ones responsible, uh, to provide that education
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in every sense of the word.
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Even if we outsource parts of it, which we all do probably at some point, um,
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we are still the ones who are directing and providing and sourcing all of that,
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um, and really are in charge of the discipleship of our children before God.
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Uh, and then from that flows this idea of educational independence,
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that it is right for the family to be making these decisions.
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It is right for the family to be providing this for our children- And
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it is not the calling of God for the government to step in and take away
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that, that responsibility at any point.
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At any point So, let's see.
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I think that pretty much covers Oh, yeah.
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Speaker: All right.
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Speaker 2: Uh, b- so August has been busy.
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We've been, I've been spinning up the school year, and we've also launched
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the organization at the same time.
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Speaker: That's super busy.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
9:31
Speaker: Well, it's, it's so good toâ¦
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I love that you called it a principled homeschool organization, because I
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think that really s- so many, um, aren't, are not even sure what that
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means or what the difference would be between one that's principled or not.
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And anymore, we hardly realize what it means to act on principle, because
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a principle would be educating my children is my responsibility.
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And so having other people pay for my children's education
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contradicts that principle.
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But so often, our default, especially default on American, modern American
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assumption, is if there's something in it for me, how could it be bad?
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Or if it works, it's fine, which is, you know, just a utilitarian principle,
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which is contradictory to scripture.
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We, we don't want to be behaving like utilitarians, that as
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long as it works, it's okay.
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We want to be having biblical principles and then reasoning
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out from those principles.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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Speaker: What have you seen in your work, and I know you've done, you
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know, you've had other podcast episodes with Scully Sisters and others, um,
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and then many conversations with people in your state and other states.
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What would you say is the biggest struggle people have as they try to f-
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navigate that, to figure out what, what's really at issue with government funding?
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Speaker 2: I think that the biggest knee-jerk reaction, the one I see
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most often, is that either it's our tax dollars that we're getting back
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or it's our child's money, because in theory it was like it would be going
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to them if they were in public school, so why can't we get at that ourselves?
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So both of those boil down to I have a claim on something from the government.
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I'm entitled to this.
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And if we look atâ¦
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Generally conservatives, if they look at the kinds of welfare programs on the other
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side of the line, "Oh, that n- that's an entitlement mentality and that's bad."
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Um, it's like we don't catch ourselves when we're doing the same thing.
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Um, so I mean, I've heard all those same arguments, like, "Well, you're privileged.
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You're this, you're that."
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Like, it'sâ¦
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Are, are you hearing yourself?
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You sound like the other side.
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What's happening?
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But, um, it's this idea of entitlement and it's like I'm enti- Doing the
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math, most of us are actually getting back way more money from, uh, the
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state to educate our children if we take it than we pay in taxes.
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That's not true in every single case.
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Of course, if you're paying in that much in taxes, you probably
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don't need the kickbacks, but-
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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Right.
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Well, yeah, you'reâ¦
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B- So you're not getting your money back.
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That's-
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Speaker 2: Right.
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So what we're saying is that we are entitled to forcing, violently forcing,
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if you actually play this all out, if someone refused, they would show up and
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forcibly arrest the person for not paying their taxes or seize their property.
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It is a forceful taking of property from someone else and saying that that
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should be funding my child's Christian education, and that person might not
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believe at all the same things I believe.
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And it does actually flip around in reverse.
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There will be people taking this, these funds that are not Christians.
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It, it's not like we're the only ones that benefit.
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And so I just think that there's a lot of the actual workings out
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of these sorts of programs that people haven't really thought about.
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So that's just like the knee-jerk reaction is like, "It's my money to begin with.
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It's my tax dollars," or, um, "We're entitled to this for
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some reason," and, and people have to kinda work through that.
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Um, but you also said, like, without realizing theâ¦
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How did you put it?
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The, um, the dangers.
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 2: Right?
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'Cause that's the other side of it.
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Um, and we could get into that.
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I did kinda want to say, like, what- As far as a definition, independence,
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I might want to clarify something there- Yeah â¦ before I go on.
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And that is that when we talk about independent education,
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it's not independence as its own virtue, as though we go it alone.
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Um, that is not actually the point.
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We are independent from state interference or, or any other authority that has
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no business being involved in our child's discipleship and education.
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And what we are dependent on is the Lord to provide and to provide
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wisdom, and for his word to actually guide our decisions and curriculum
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and everything, um, in life.
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And so we are also interdependent with- in our fellowship with other believers,
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and this is the way all homeschoolers have done it forever, is banding
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together, creating co-ops, um, and creating other kinds of opportunities
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where we share knowledge and share experiences that benefit our families.
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So we are not totally independent, um, but we have to establish that there's
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some clear boundaries of where God gives jurisdiction to families, and
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others should not encroach upon that.
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That's what we're really getting at when we talk about educational
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homeschool independence.
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So
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I guess so, so some of the p- pitfalls of taking the money, and so why, why
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should we maintain this independence?
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And not just, like, take the money, but just try to say, "But leave us alone."
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It's really not a sustainable position.
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They will win eventually.
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They have a right to say what happens to state funds.
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Yes.
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You w- you can't win that.
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Um, but I honestly think, like, you can have strings attached, and,
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and the strings and the regulations have tightened every year since our
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EFA program has been in existence.
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Every single year the rules tighten.
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It's kind of like, and who was surprised by this?
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You shouldn't have been surprised by this.
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Um, it's completely predictable.
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But I think something that isâ¦
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that people probably miss in this discussion that I think is so much more
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critical to us as Christian parents is actually the idea of formation, that
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how we fund our highest priorities is incredibly instructive to our kids.
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It is.
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Because are we conveying to our children that we depend on the
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government to provide, not just our basic needs, but our every desire?
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Because when you're talking about the amount of money that's getting thrown into
15:45
homeschooling now, it does not meanâ¦
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It, it's like 10 times more than what you need to actually homeschool.
15:53
Um, and so we're, we're going to be passing on that kind of
15:57
entitlement mentality if we have it.
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Um, we are teaching our kids that the source of our needs is the state, that
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we are perfectly okay with whatever hoops they ask us to jump through as
16:10
long as we keep getting the money.
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That's compromise.
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It is.
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Um, and so our kids actually learn from the environment that we create,
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and that environment is made up of the decisions that we make.
16:20
Um, I'm s- also, and I'm really sad to report this, but it is having
16:23
an impact on homeschool communities already in the state of Arkansas.
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Um, I've heard directly from distraught young homeschool moms telling me that the
16:32
community that they're a part of, much of the talking shop among the moms involves,
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"How are you spending your funds?
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Did you find something else to use up this last $1,000?
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Um, how did you convince them to pay for these bookshelves?
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They told me no."
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And it's likeâ¦
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Uh, and I won't even get into the, the obvious fraud.
16:53
No, I've heard stories.
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But, uh, but there's all these ways of f- of trying to say, how do you
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justify your purchases to the state?
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Um, and if it's just a basic educational expense, well, now you're justifying
17:04
all of your educational choices, and that puts you in a completely opposite
17:07
position to the state than what is right.
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But, but back to the impact on the community, um-
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Basically, moms talking shop is turning into moms gaming, talking
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about how they can game the system.
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And that is so not the same as how did you coach your child through long division?
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How do you ma- balance, you know, preparing a meal for dinner when
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they, there's, there's still school on the table at 5:00?
17:31
Um, these are very, very different kinds of conversation.
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Um, and this is forming the culture of the homeschool community.
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These things are not of the same quality, and I think we need to remember
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scripture's warning that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
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And so our children are gonna be absorbing these things.
17:49
Um, and as we kind of noted, like- More and more young people are
17:54
looking favorably at socialism.
17:56
And I think the obvious reason for that is having grown up in a public
18:00
school system, which I did, but growing up in that public school system,
18:05
today it is even further socialized than it was when I was in school.
18:09
They're providing more and more of your basic healthcare, counseling,
18:13
even food, and even supplies.
18:16
Um, they've made a lot of these things universally provided, so
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it's not even income-based anymore.
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It's just like we provide everything.
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And when you are trained in this, it doesn't really matter what mom and dad
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say, if the form of your life is that every single day I'm dependent on the
18:32
state for a variety of basics, like you are being raised in socialism.
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You just are.
18:38
And so when we take state funds for our homeschooling, we're actually inviting
18:42
the same mechanism into our homes, and that also teaches our children.
18:46
Um, so we've mentioned there could be strings attached, and there already are.
18:50
You have to take a state-mandated test, um, or you have to take a, uh,
18:53
norm-reference test in the state of Arkansas when you receive the funding.
18:56
Right now they're very generous, but there's very loud, um, vocal calls for
19:01
homeschoolers to take the exact same tests that they're, they're taking
19:04
in the public schools, and I, I think that is pretty nearly on the horizon.
19:07
Like, that'll be pushed for this sem- this legislative session.
19:11
Um, and I, as I've said, there's been price, um, hikes and things
19:16
that are impacting all of us who don't take the money, and that puts
19:20
more pressure on us to, to join in.
19:22
So, um-
19:24
Speaker: Yeah, you put more money into the local community
19:29
and then the prices will go up.
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It'sâ¦
19:33
That is, it's basic economics.
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And, you know, you have things like piano lessons and dance classes, and these
19:41
things that a lot of the money goes to.
19:43
And so you're going to be much more free, you- you're gonna be much more free
19:49
spending money that's not yours, right?
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Just free money.
19:54
And so if the piano teacher doubles their prices, if you're taking government money,
19:59
it doesn't really matter to you 'cause it's not affecting your home budget.
20:02
But for everyone who's not taking the government money, it just puts that
20:07
right outside their reach, and then they become more and more tempted t- for
20:13
that money because they're being priced out of resources that they otherwise
20:17
could have, um, participated in.
20:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:21
And that being priced out is- isn't just hypothetical.
20:23
Yeah.
20:23
It's happening to my friends.
20:25
Speaker: Yeah.
20:25
Speaker 2: It's re- it's real.
20:26
It's here.
20:27
Yeah.
20:27
And the other, the other thought is just that separation.
20:30
Um, private schools that take the funds are no longer truly private.
20:33
Um, though I think that they actually maintain a little more privacy
20:36
than homeschoolers do, just because of the nature of homeschoolers
20:39
having to get every single purchase approved, um, entered on ClassWallet
20:43
or else submitted through, like, a reimbursement, sending in an invoice.
20:47
The state has a record of every single purchase that a homeschool family
20:50
makes, whereas the private schools actually get away with managing their
20:54
own budgets a little bit more in-house.
20:56
So homeschoolers are actually giving up a considerable amount of their own privacy
20:59
when they sign up for state funding.
21:01
Speaker: So then what kind of work do you do with the organization?
21:05
What, what is that being set up to, to, to do and accomplish?
21:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm the secretary, and I'm learning a lot
21:12
about filling that role in itself.
21:14
Um, but we are gearing up for our first capital day early, um, 2027.
21:21
Uh, we are gonna haveâ¦
21:23
We've got a welcome packet that we're gonna send to members.
21:26
We've got a monthly newsletter, email newsletter.
21:29
Um, and we'll have Arkansas Homeschool Network's website is arhsn.org.
21:35
So if anybody out there listening is in Arkansas, you can go to our website,
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scroll down to where it says be the first to know, and join our mailing list.
21:43
We'd love, love to have the opportunity to connect with you.
21:46
Uh, we plan on actually doing some workshops and things to help
21:50
equip, uh, homeschool families, um, providing opportunities for just
21:57
getting together and, and doing, um, some fun things together,
22:00
building networks across the state.
22:02
And I think that's one of the things that we, we really sorely need at this point,
22:06
is that only about 50%, somewhere around 50%, um, of homeschoolers in the state of
22:12
Arkansas participate in the EFA program.
22:15
That means we still have half of us that do not, and they currently don't
22:21
have a central hub for organizing, for communicating with each other.
22:26
So a huge part of what we will be doing is providing that opportunity, um,
22:31
for real encouragement because some of the young, especially the young moms,
22:34
they've not been at this long enough.
22:35
I've got most of my friends, we're like, "We don't need the state funds.
22:38
We don't want that."
22:39
Um, I've got a strong community around me, but so many of these new to homeschooling
22:44
moms, everyone around them is taking the money, and it's, it feels very isolating.
22:50
Um, especially, um, for one that I know who, um, one year their co-op
22:55
was $40, and the next it was 400.
22:58
Speaker: Wow.
22:59
Speaker 2: She just lost her friend group because they, they went on without her.
23:02
So, um- Wow â¦ that's really happening.
23:05
So we wanna be able to provide support for families in that situation,
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and also be able to point them to free resources that are out there.
23:13
And, and because we know that it's actually going to be even
23:16
more challenging to maintain this principled position of funding your own
23:20
children's education because the state is making it harder by interfering.
23:24
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
23:25
Speaker 2: Gonna provide all the help that we can.
23:27
Speaker: Well, thank you so much.
23:28
I hope that this was helpful to inspire more people to look into government
23:36
funding in whatever form it's happening.
23:38
I know it's happening in most, if not all states.
23:41
You might know more.
23:42
Speaker 2: It has passed.
23:44
Many of the red states have passed, um, funding programs, but the one big
23:49
beautiful bill has passed a national program that the governor may opt into.
23:54
And so that can actually bypass the legislature to where the National
23:57
School Choice Program can be accessed by, um- Students in states that do not
24:04
already have an EFA or ESA program.
24:07
So it's concerning.
24:08
It's sweeping the nation really quickly.
24:09
Honestly, I knew it was gonna go to the national level, but it's
24:12
happened a lot faster than I thought.
24:13
Speaker: Wow.
24:14
Yes.
24:15
So I hope people have maybe some new reasons they thought of to think through
24:20
this more deeply and, you know, think with more long-term consequences, not
24:26
just, "Oh, more money would be nice" , but what are the consequences of that money.
24:33
And then also, just to be inspired about the possibilities that, you
24:38
know, just to keep your eyes open for those doors that God might open wh-
24:43
when you're in that season of, you know, teenagers or graduating students.
24:48
There are needs and opportunities in every community and every state.
24:54
And whether it's something similar to the Arkansas Homeschool Network
24:59
or a co-op or, you know, a- so many things that we can do to be active
25:05
in serving in our communities.
25:08
So thank you so much for joining me today, Lauren.
25:11
Speaker 2: Thanks.
25:11
Glad to be here, Misty.
25:13
Speaker: And all those links to, um, the network's website and to
25:18
Lauren's blog and all those things will be in the episode notes.
25:22
All right.
25:22
Thank you.
25:24
Speaker 2: Thank you.