Latest / The Bible Explained with Jenn Kokal / 1 Peter 5:1-7 - The Danger of Church Celebrity Culture - With Guest Speaker Garett Kokal

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1 Peter 5:1-7 - The Danger of Church Celebrity Culture - With Guest Speaker Garett Kokal · The Bible Explained with Jenn Kokal

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  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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  Speaker 2: You are listening to The Bible Explained with Jen Koukl,
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  Speaker 2: a P40 Ministries podcast. Howdy and good morning, friends and
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  Speaker 2: faithful listeners, and welcome to The Bible Explained podcast on
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  Speaker 2: this absolutely lovely Thursday morning. And I have my favorite
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  Speaker 2: guest back on the podcast. This is my husband, Garrett.
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  Speaker 2: who I'm always very excited to feature on the episodes.
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  Speaker 2: And did you know, Garrett, that I think the audience
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  Speaker 2: likes you a little bit more than they like me?
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  Speaker 2: Because last time you were on the podcast, your episode
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  Speaker 2: did like astronomically better than any of the podcast episodes
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  Speaker 2: that I've done in recent weeks. How do you feel
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  Speaker 2: that you're taking over my podcast?
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  Speaker 1: Well, you are on that one too.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that is true. I was on it as well.
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  Speaker 2: But I think people appreciate the male perspective sometimes, especially
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  Speaker 2: when it comes to the topic that we're going to
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  Speaker 2: talk about today, which is 1 Peter 5, 1 through 7.
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  Speaker 2: And of course, as you guys know, we'll get into
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  Speaker 2: this right after a quick word from a sponsor. Thank
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  Speaker 2: you so much, faithful listeners, for listening to that sponsored ad.
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  Speaker 2: And now let's go ahead and turn in our Bibles
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  Speaker 2: to 1 Peter 5, 1 through 7. As I usually do,
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  Speaker 2: I'll be reading from the World English Bible. Therefore, I
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  Speaker 2: exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and
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  Speaker 2: a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and who will
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  Speaker 2: also share in the glory that will be revealed, shepherd
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  Speaker 2: the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight,
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  Speaker 2: not under compulsion, but voluntarily, not for dishonest gain, but willingly,
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  Speaker 2: not as lording it over those entrusted to you, but
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  Speaker 2: making yourselves examples to the flock. When the chief shepherd
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  Speaker 2: is revealed, you will receive the crown of glory that
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  Speaker 2: doesn't fade away. Likewise, you younger ones, be subject to
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  Speaker 2: the elder. Yes, all of you clothe yourselves with humility
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  Speaker 2: and subject yourselves to one another, for God resists the proud,
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  Speaker 2: but he gives grace to the humble. Humble yourselves, therefore,
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  Speaker 2: under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt
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  Speaker 2: you in due time, casting all your worries on him,
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  Speaker 2: because he cares for you. All right, Garrett, the reason
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  Speaker 2: I wanted you to come on this podcast episode with
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  Speaker 2: me is because You also were an elder and might
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  Speaker 2: have a really good perspective on this, something that honestly
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  Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't have. So my first question for you is,
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  Speaker 2: what is your main takeaway from 1 Peter 5? And
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  Speaker 2: can you shine more light onto this passage in general?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think in this passage, Peter really highlights the
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  Speaker 1: importance of humility when it comes to elders. Not only
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  Speaker 1: does Peter, an apostle, And as far as apostles go,
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  Speaker 1: quite an influential one throughout the entire story in the gospel. Peter,
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  Speaker 1: in fact, addresses all the other elders across other churches
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  Speaker 1: as equals to him. He doesn't lord it over them
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  Speaker 1: the way that he could. And in fact, he takes
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  Speaker 1: that and he applies it to the elders that he's addressing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm going to ask a pretty controversial question here.
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  Speaker 2: What does this say about... you know, the Catholic belief
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  Speaker 2: that Peter was the first Pope. Does this, you know,
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  Speaker 2: kind of shine any light on that?
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  Speaker 1: I think it actually does. Peter does not say that
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  Speaker 1: he's anything above any elders in the church. He exhorts
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  Speaker 1: the elders among you, and then he addresses them as equals,
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  Speaker 1: not as a chief elder, not as an apostle, not
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  Speaker 1: as somebody hand-selected by Jesus when he was alive and
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  Speaker 1: then when he was risen, but he addresses himself as
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  Speaker 1: a fellow elder and Yeah, I noticed that as well.
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  Speaker 1: And in fact, I think Peter's letters are incredibly humble.
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  Speaker 1: He really shows his humility right here. But the idea
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  Speaker 1: of an elder, you at one point being an elder, Garrett, what.
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  Speaker 2: Is an elder? Let's talk about that first.
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  Speaker 1: So an elder is something that's defined in Scripture and
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  Speaker 1: then also seemingly defined by different denominations and churches, which
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  Speaker 1: can get confusing. So looking only at what Scripture says,
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  Speaker 1: because anything else is just tradition and just man-made and
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  Speaker 1: should not be exalted the way that Scripture is. An
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  Speaker 1: elder is an overseer, somebody that is a shepherd inside
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  Speaker 1: of a church whose goal is to guide the flock,
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  Speaker 1: to make sure that there is sound teaching— and has
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  Speaker 1: to be able to teach and guide those that are
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  Speaker 1: coming up in the church. You can even see in
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  Speaker 1: this passage here where he calls the elders to not
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  Speaker 1: lord over those entrusted to you, but making yourself examples
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  Speaker 1: to the flock. The elders, the overseers, are to lead
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  Speaker 1: by example, to not lord over the people that are
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  Speaker 1: entrusted to him, and then the elders are also supposed
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  Speaker 1: to acknowledge in that that they are not going out
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  Speaker 1: and getting the flock. The flock is given to them
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  Speaker 1: by God.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not necessarily the elder's responsibility to find
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  Speaker 2: more congregants, I suppose, of the church. Is that what
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  Speaker 2: you're saying?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the responsibility of a mature Christian is to evangelize.
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  Speaker 1: Jesus is very clear when he gives the Great Commission
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  Speaker 1: that all are to go forth and all are to
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  Speaker 1: make disciples. And that's specifically the responsibility, not just of
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  Speaker 1: an elder, not of a pastor, which in scripture is
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  Speaker 1: just an elder, not of any position in the church.
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  Speaker 1: If you are a Christian, you are to evangelize and
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  Speaker 1: you are to disciple. But elders are given a separate
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  Speaker 1: set of tasks, unique tasks about leading a church, about shepherding,
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  Speaker 1: about overseeing, and about teaching. Elders are not responsible in
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  Speaker 1: the same way to guide a church in evangelism as
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  Speaker 1: a elder would be in making sure that what is
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  Speaker 1: being taught in the church is correct, true, and sound doctrine.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I think a lot of people say that, yeah, okay,
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  Speaker 2: women can't be an elder, or women can't be a pastor,
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  Speaker 2: but maybe they could be an elder. But you're essentially
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  Speaker 2: saying that elders and pastors are the exact same thing,
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  Speaker 2: hence why women can't be both an elder and a pastor,
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  Speaker 2: because it's like one in the same. The responsibilities are
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  Speaker 2: not any different from each other, essentially.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know that a lot of people will
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  Speaker 1: take that as dated or a misogynistic reading of it,
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  Speaker 1: but it's just the qualifications as laid down explicitly in Scripture.
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  Speaker 1: There is a gender to the role of elder, and
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  Speaker 1: that is not necessarily— as you can see by what
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  Speaker 1: Peter says, a power or an authority that is given
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  Speaker 1: to that elder for gain, but rather it's a responsibility given.
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  Speaker 1: So in the same way that you see in the garden,
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  Speaker 1: different responsibilities given to Adam and to Eve, you can
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  Speaker 1: see here that elders are given responsibilities specifically to males.
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  Speaker 1: And while that can be controversial, it's not really up
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  Speaker 1: for discussion. It's what the Bible clearly says. And if
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  Speaker 1: God says it, I obey it. That actually is funny
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  Speaker 1: because I've seen arguments for polygamy or polygyny and people saying, hey, well,
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  Speaker 1: David wouldn't be qualified to be an elder in your
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  Speaker 1: church because he had multiple wives. So you wouldn't elect
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  Speaker 1: him as an elder. And my response is no. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: but I'm not disqualifying David. God is disqualifying David. I'm
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  Speaker 1: just obeying God.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it says right here, I
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  Speaker 2: just pulled up 1 Timothy 3, so we could read
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  Speaker 2: this together about who the elder is. Now in 1
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  Speaker 2: Timothy 3, it's called an overseer, not an elder, but
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  Speaker 2: it's essentially the same thing. 1 Timothy 3, one through,
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  Speaker 2: I'll just read a little bit of this. It says,
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  Speaker 2: this is a faithful saying, someone who seeks to be
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  Speaker 2: an overseer desires a good work. The overseer therefore must
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  Speaker 2: be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, modest, hospitable,
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  Speaker 2: good at teaching, not a drinker, not violent, not greedy
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  Speaker 2: for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not quarrelsome, I'm sorry,
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  Speaker 2: and not covetous, and one who rules his own house well.
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  Speaker 2: So the entire thing, You know, there's more than that.
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  Speaker 2: But the entire thing is using male pronouns right there.
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  Speaker 2: And also it mentions he must be the husband of
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  Speaker 2: one wife. Kind of going back to that David thing.
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  Speaker 1: That you said. It does not say one spouse.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. One wife. Exactly. So that
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  Speaker 2: both disqualifies somebody like David. And it also disqualifies women
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  Speaker 2: and Solomon and pretty much like any other, you know,
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  Speaker 2: Old Testament figures, I think, that we look at who
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  Speaker 2: are considered to be like beacons, I suppose, of piety.
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  Speaker 2: Even the patriarchs of Israel would be disqualified to be elders,
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  Speaker 2: if you think about it, other than Isaac, I think.
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  Speaker 2: He's the only one that... had one wife. But Abraham
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  Speaker 2: and Jacob both had multiple wives. So yeah, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: this is some good basics for what an elder is
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  Speaker 2: supposed to be. Now, that being said, of course, there
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  Speaker 2: are responsibilities for the elder's wife, right? I mean, If
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  Speaker 2: the elder's wife is not going along with her husband
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  Speaker 2: or she's not, you know, on the same page as him,
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  Speaker 2: then that probably disqualifies the elder as well. So there
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  Speaker 2: is a responsibility that the wife has to play when
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  Speaker 2: a church chooses an elder. And I know in the
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  Speaker 2: past that, you know, the churches that we've been to,
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  Speaker 2: they have looked at both the husband and the wife
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  Speaker 2: as a couple, right? Not just the husband and what
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  Speaker 2: he could bring to the table, but also the wife.
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  Speaker 2: if she doesn't seem comfortable with her husband becoming an elder,
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  Speaker 2: or she doesn't like the responsibility of that, or doesn't
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  Speaker 2: want to attend that church or something, that is something
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  Speaker 2: that the church should obviously take into consideration when choosing
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  Speaker 2: a brand new elder. But going back to 1 Peter 5,
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  Speaker 2: let's kind of break this down verse by verse. It says,
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  Speaker 2: therefore I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow
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  Speaker 2: elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, who
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  Speaker 2: will also share in the glory that will be revealed...
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  Speaker 2: So again, he addresses the elders in humility. As somebody
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  Speaker 2: who was an elder, if Peter or any other apostle
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  Speaker 2: or anybody else that I've read about in scripture addressed me,
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  Speaker 2: I would be comfortable with them.
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  Speaker 1: Addressing me as somebody inferior to them. I know that's
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  Speaker 1: not scriptural, but just as a human being, I think
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  Speaker 1: Peter's a greater man than I am. But yet Peter
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  Speaker 1: addresses with such humility these elders, and he's telling them
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  Speaker 1: what they need to be doing, what they need to
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  Speaker 1: be focused on. They need to be shepherding the flock
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  Speaker 1: of God which is among them, exercising oversight, and they
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  Speaker 1: need to do this willingly. They need to be joyfully
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  Speaker 1: serving God, not under compulsion, but doing it voluntarily, not
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  Speaker 1: for dishonest gain, but willingly. A person seeking the station
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  Speaker 1: of elder, and this includes pastor because elders and pastors
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  Speaker 1: are the same in scripture. A person seeking the station
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  Speaker 1: of elder or pastor should not be doing it for gain.
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  Speaker 1: That does not mean that elders or pastors, depending on their.
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  Speaker 2: It says dishonest gain though.
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  Speaker 1: Right, but it's voluntarily not for dishonest gain, willingly. The
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  Speaker 1: goal of a elder or a pastor should be to
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  Speaker 1: shepherd the flock. not to find a lucrative career. This
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  Speaker 1: does not mean that the church should abuse their elders
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  Speaker 1: or their pastors. If you have a vocational elder, if
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  Speaker 1: somebody is working in the church, they should be compensated,
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  Speaker 1: and they should be compensated in a way that they
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  Speaker 1: can afford to live their life and not be destitute.
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  Speaker 1: But at the same time, a pastor or an elder
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  Speaker 1: should not be seeking wealth through their role. It is honest.
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  Speaker 1: And it is good work for whoever seeks to be
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  Speaker 1: taking the role of an overseer is seeking a good thing.
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  Speaker 1: Scripture tells us that. But it's not necessarily the same
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  Speaker 1: as becoming a lawyer.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I actually want to brag on you for
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  Speaker 2: a second if I'm allowed to do that. Because my husband,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not even joking, he has done so much for
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  Speaker 2: the church and his never took a paycheck, not once
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  Speaker 2: in his entire 11 years. As the youth leader, like
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  Speaker 2: the main youth leader, as an elder, as we did
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  Speaker 2: the worship leading for a time, in all of that,
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  Speaker 2: he never took a paycheck. And I just wanted to
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  Speaker 2: brag on him. So he really has like a conviction
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  Speaker 2: for that, that eldership, even though I don't think it's wrong,
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  Speaker 2: according to scripture, to take a paycheck for him He
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  Speaker 2: thinks it would be wrong. And actually, I want you
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  Speaker 2: to talk about that conviction a little bit. Are you
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  Speaker 2: comfortable with that? Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So one of them is that the elders cannot be
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  Speaker 1: lovers of money. So if you're going to take the
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  Speaker 1: station of an overseer, if you're going to be a
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  Speaker 1: pastor or an elder, you can't be seeking that gain
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  Speaker 1: from it. Vocationally, the paycheck is important. That allows a
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  Speaker 1: vocational ministry worker to be a ministry worker.
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  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
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  Speaker 1: But it's also good to have lay elders, in some
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  Speaker 1: cases lay pastors, lay ministry leaders, people who are serving
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  Speaker 1: in whatever capacity that they can apart from the other
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  Speaker 1: roles that they have in life. But what that does
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  Speaker 1: is there's no clock in and clock out or a
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  Speaker 1: set amount of hours that you need to meet for
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  Speaker 1: a week. If I approached God the same way that
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  Speaker 1: I approach my job, it would not be healthy for me.
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  Speaker 1: And so for me, I enjoy serving and giving. And
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  Speaker 1: that goes along with my tithing. God has already poured
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  Speaker 1: out so much for me that I want to serve
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  Speaker 1: and do what I can for him. Not that he
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  Speaker 1: needs from me, but that I want to be giving
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  Speaker 1: in that way.
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  Speaker 2: So what do you think happens when a pastor or
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  Speaker 2: an elder doesn't do what 1 Peter 5 says right here,
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  Speaker 2: where they are almost like either under compulsion to do
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  Speaker 2: that role or they're doing it for a dishonest gain.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think happens to the church at that point?
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  Speaker 1: The church will suffer. So this is warning against essentially
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  Speaker 1: a structure that we have set up in the West.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of people always say that the Western church, well,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of other churches are even more unhealthy than ours.
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  Speaker 1: And we're exporting a lot of our unhealthiest habits, but
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  Speaker 1: we are also churches that the world looks at. But
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  Speaker 1: one of the ways that we're structured is a senior
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  Speaker 1: pastor or whatever the head of that will be, and
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  Speaker 1: then a structure of leadership that allows and even encourages
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  Speaker 1: a almost celebrity culture. And you can see that across
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  Speaker 1: the country today. You can actually even see through many
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  Speaker 1: podcasts that I've listened to and interviews where there seems
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  Speaker 1: to be a push and a pull against this celebrity
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  Speaker 1: culture inside of Christian circles. This is a warning against it.
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  Speaker 1: You are to serve, but there should be a cap
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  Speaker 1: to how much you bring home doing ministry work because
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  Speaker 1: ministry is for God. And you serve people in ministry,
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  Speaker 1: but you don't serve people for their gain or for
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  Speaker 1: your gain, but for his gain. Giving to the poor,
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  Speaker 1: giving to the needy, ministering to anybody, while they gain
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  Speaker 1: from it and while you gain from it in the
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  Speaker 1: health that can come from serving others, The center of
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  Speaker 1: everything done in any Christian setting, church or otherwise, should
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  Speaker 1: be focused on Christ. I'm not serving or writing a
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  Speaker 1: book because my focus is on publishing that book and
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  Speaker 1: making money. I'm not focused on getting this interview or
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  Speaker 1: that interview because that will get me more exposure and
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  Speaker 1: make me money. I'm not focused on evangelizing to get
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  Speaker 1: more people in the church because more people tithe will
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  Speaker 1: make more money and more influence. But in all of
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  Speaker 1: those ways, you should be doing those things because you
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  Speaker 1: want to have more impact and you want to have
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  Speaker 1: more influence and you want to have more evangelistic opportunities
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  Speaker 1: because you want to serve Christ better. And Peter is
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  Speaker 1: almost warning directly against that right here. When you serve,
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  Speaker 1: keep your eyes on Christ. In fact, there's a promise
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  Speaker 1: he puts in here. Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty
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  Speaker 1: hand of God that he may exalt you In due time.
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  Speaker 1: Casting all your worries on him because he cares for you.
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  Speaker 1: In due time is very important. When we are exalted,
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  Speaker 1: and I firmly believe this, that one day I will
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  Speaker 1: be exalted, my body will be dead.
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  Speaker 2: That's an interesting point. And you know what is it?
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  Speaker 2: What's kind of funny is we started this podcast at
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  Speaker 2: the beginning where I sort of targeted my Catholic friends with,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Peter being the first pope. But it's almost like,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the Protestants get so angry at the Catholics
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  Speaker 2: because of the Pope. But even what you said right here,
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  Speaker 2: they're making little mini Popes, but just in every single church, essentially.
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  Speaker 2: With Protestantism, you go into a church not expecting that
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  Speaker 2: kind of hierarchy. And then I would say 19 out
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  Speaker 2: of 20 times, maybe even more than that, It essentially
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  Speaker 2: is the same exact type of hierarchy where everybody looks
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  Speaker 2: to the pastor and there becomes what you said, this
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  Speaker 2: celebrity type of culture happening in every single church where
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  Speaker 2: people just are so dedicated to the pastor, they can't
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  Speaker 2: see the truth a lot of times.
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  Speaker 1: Again, Peter may not have been the first pope or
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  Speaker 1: Catholic tradition may say that he was the first pope,
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  Speaker 1: but I think he would disagree with the station. But
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  Speaker 1: if everybody was modeling themselves after Peter that was in
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  Speaker 1: leadership in the church and modeling themselves after Paul who
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  Speaker 1: was a leader in the church, it would be so
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  Speaker 1: healthy because these two great men handled themselves. with such humility.
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  Speaker 1: One of the reasons I like reading what Paul says
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  Speaker 1: is because he gets a bit snarkier. Peter has more
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  Speaker 1: humility throughout his letters. He has read a little more kindly,
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  Speaker 1: in my opinion. But Paul pulls authority sometimes. Not for
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  Speaker 1: his gain. but sometimes for the gain of other Christians
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  Speaker 1: and always for the gain of Christ. Peter right here
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  Speaker 1: is not pulling authority, but in that way, this should
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  Speaker 1: be pulling elders towards him in humility, down in humility.
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  Speaker 1: Instead of rising in station, an elder needs to look
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  Speaker 1: at where they're at, and it needs to be a
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  Speaker 1: lower station. You are a servant, a shepherd. That is
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  Speaker 1: the role that is talked about. And if we are
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: going to model ourselves after the good shepherd, he lowered
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: himself all the way. And so that is a pattern
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: that you should see across the church. The more mature
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and the more influential a person is in the church,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the more they should look like a servant. A leader
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: that is a servant, not a leader that is a celebrity.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: And you can see here in verse 3, not as
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: lording it over those entrusted to you, but making yourselves
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: examples to the flock. We are all to be servants
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: because our Lord and our King is a servant. But
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: if you are lording over the flock and they are
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: following you, they're going to start the same pattern. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: if you are doing that, who are you modeling? Because
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: we're supposed to imitate Paul as he imitates Christ, and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: both of them humbled themselves, one all the way to
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the cross.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I kind of want you to go back
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: to that last statement that you said and shine a
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: little bit more light on that, where you mentioned that
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: when you are exalted, you will be dead. Can you
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: explain that a little bit more just for some of
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the faithful listeners that might not have understood what you meant?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very clear when you're reading through different parts
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: of Scripture that there are treasures and glories that are
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: promised to us, and these inheritances, which we Scripture says,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: is Christ's inheritance given to us. These inheritances will come
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: to us. These treasures will come to us. But where
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: they come is not on earth. The gain that we
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: will have on earth may be great or it may
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: be suffering. God doesn't tell us or promise us that
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: our life here will be easy and he doesn't tell
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: us or promise us that it will be terrible. We
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: will have difficulties and we will have prayers answered. Both
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: of those are true. But after I die, after I
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: go to that judgment throne, and after Christ witnesses for
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: me and names me blameless for the sins that I
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: am guilty of, at that point, I will be given
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the rewards that I'm not due, that he is due.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: But at that point, I will be given the crowns
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: that are talked about here, crown of glory that doesn't
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: fade away. And all of the things that are promised
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: in the letters in Revelation, there are so many promises made.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: We will be given so much. We will be exalted.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: But that's in due time. And I truly believe that
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: that due time is after my body has passed.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: And that's literally a perfect segue into verse 4 right here.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: It says, I mean... It's essentially exactly what you're talking
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: about right there, that, you know, someday when Jesus is revealed,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: and I'm saying that's probably the second coming, that's when
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: we will receive these rewards that, you know, I keep
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: talking about here on the podcast. Someday we are going
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: to be judged for every single thing that we ever
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: did here on earth, even as Christians. And as Garrett said,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: our reward is not here on earth. It's for the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: time to come. So let's talk about this last portion
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: right here, verses five through seven in a little bit
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: more detail to conclude this episode. It says, likewise, you
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: younger ones be subject to the elder. Yes, all of
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: you clothe yourselves with humility and subject yourselves to one
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: another for God resists the proud, but he gives grace
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: to the humble. Now, this kind of brings me back
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: a couple chapters ago where Peter was, I don't know
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: if you guys remember, talking about all of these different
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: people that we're supposed to submit to. Remember, he talked
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: about the governmental authority. He talked about slaves submitting to
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: their masters. He talked about wives submitting to their husbands.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And he talked about husbands submitting to God by treating
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: their wives with honor and respect. And now it's almost
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: like Peter just wraps all of that up with this
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: verse right here. Likewise, you younger ones be subject to
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the elder. So now we have one more relationship where
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: somebody is supposed to be subject to the other person.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And in this case, it's the younger individuals in the
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: church being subject to the elders of the church. Now,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: is this talking about elders of the church or elderly people, Gare?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: This would be elders in the church.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: So likewise, you younger ones, be subject to the elder.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: It's not necessarily saying those of you who are younger
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: in age and older in age, because what's really important
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: is how mature you are in your faith. You can
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: be in your 70s or 80s or 90s and come
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to Christ. There is nothing that says that late in
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: life you can't come to Christ and decide to go
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to church. But just because you're 90... and you are
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: a very new Christian does not mean that you should
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: be treated as an elder in the church. In fact,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: you should treat yourself as quite a young person in
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the church, seeking people to learn from. Just because you
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: are old in age does not mean that you are
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: beyond being discipled. You should seek being discipled, because the
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: church is told to go forth and make disciples. Any
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: church you go to should be filled with people that
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: want to feed into you. We have a natural tendency
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: to defer and say that somebody that is older has
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: more experience. So I want to challenge any of you
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: that may be on the older side, if you are
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: new to Christ, or maybe you've known Christ for a
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: long time, but you're really committing yourself for the first time,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: you may need to go and tell people that you
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: need to be discipled because there's going to be a
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: respect that's given to you automatically, and that may not
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: serve you well. You may find somebody 20, 30 years
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: your junior that can mentor you in walking with Christ.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm not going to lie. I'm kind of guilty
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: of that, too, because, like, you know, as I get older,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: it seems like people get younger and younger. And, you know,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I like to scroll through YouTube sometimes, and I see these, like,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: little whippersnappers talking about the Bible. And I'm like, what
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: can I learn from you? Yeah. I'm not going to lie.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And that's my own pride speaking. It really is. So,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: and I mean, I've even had some people contact me
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: kind of saying the same thing. Actually, somebody just recently
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: emailed me and was like, I'm not ashamed to say that,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm several years older than you and I'm
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: learning from you. And that's really sweet. I do appreciate that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: But I mean, it does, I guess, take a sense
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: of putting your, like humbling yourself, I suppose, to be
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: able to potentially learn from somebody who is a little
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: bit younger than you are. And I think a good
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: example of this, Garrett, was the youth group. You know,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: sometimes those kids, like I would learn things from those kids.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: When they're coming to youth group, I guess to learn
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: from us. Yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: And you can even see, because we always need to
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: look at scripture holistically. The Bible is one complete book.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And so when you look for definitions, you need to
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: look inside of the Bible for the answer. Does this
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: mean that if you that you are older and a Christian,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: you are automatically the elder?
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: No.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Timothy and Titus were sent out. Young men were sent
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: to not just establish churches, but to arrive at these churches,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: rebuke the elders, reestablish elders, and correct their doctrine as
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: an elder needs to be able to do. So Timothy
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: and Titus, by all definitions sent out by Paul, were elders.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Quite young men, but elders. And so the younger ones,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: the people who are newer to Christ, need to be
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: subject to them. The elders, in turn, need to be
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: doing this voluntarily and not for dishonest gain and willingly,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: in humility. And so we can see that Peter here
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: is just defining humility all the way down. Leaders, lead
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: your churches humbly. in humility. Churches, follow your leaders in humility.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: And in all things, Christians are to submit to one
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: another in humility. Again, scripture teaches us what we are
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: to learn out of these different passages. When we read
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: 1 Peter, we can see in other parts of the
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Bible how this is explained. Yeah. We see in this
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: entire passage, what Peter is telling us is leaders, be humble.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Children in the church, be humble. And then all of
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: this is to be humbled before God. And then we're
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to cast our worries on him because he cares for you.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And so Peter brings it all back to that beautiful
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: statement that everything that we're doing, which feels unnatural, which
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: goes against what the world does, which is set up
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: hierarchies and lord power over one another. At the end
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: of the day, We are submitting ourselves to God, humbling
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: ourselves before the mighty hand of God, and we cast
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: our worries on him for no other reason than he
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: cares for us.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, faithful listeners, for tuning in
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: to this episode with my husband and I. And before
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: I let all of you guys go with a happy
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: listening and God bless, please listen to this last sponsored ad. Well, Garrett,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I appreciate your involvement in this podcast episode once again.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: So thank you very much.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Happy to be here.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: And I hope that you learned something from this passage,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: especially about, you know, just the humility of all of this. Essentially,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Peter is calling us back to a place of humbleness,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I suppose. So we can take that with us throughout
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: the week. Try to find ways to be more humble,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: though it is pretty difficult. Yeah. All right, faithful listeners,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I hope you all have a fantastic and wonderful weekend.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: As you guys know, Fridays are for the members. We're
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: going through the book of the Psalms right now. And yeah,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I'm back feeling good enough that I can do a
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: episode for all of you faithful members tomorrow. So I'm
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: looking forward to that. And for those of you who
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: would like to become a faithful member, so you can
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: tune into the Psalms, which is an additional, I think,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: 100 episodes at this point. You can click the link
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: in the description that says Kofi, or you can go
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: to my website, which is p40ministries. com slash plans, I believe
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: it is, and sign up to become a member and
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: gain access to the Bible Explained on Fridays. But if
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: you don't do that, you don't become faithful members, that's okay,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: because I will see all of you guys on the
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: regular scheduled episode on Monday as we go through the
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: book of Job together. Happy listening, and God bless. I
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: just want to take a second to thank the team
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: at Life Audio for their partnership with me on the
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Bible Explained podcast. In fact, if you go to lifeaudio.com,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.