Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / In the Headlines: Collin Gosselin

Transcript

In the Headlines: Collin Gosselin · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, True Crime Divas and Dudes.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Tina here with another episode of In the Headlines from your favorite True Crime podcast, Deadly Divas.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah will, of course, be back for our usual Friday episodes.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, I know, it's been a while since we've had an In the Headlines, and I apologize.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Life has been busy, but I am making it up to y'all today because I am going over a book I just read by Colin Gosselin, one of the children from the TLC show, John and Kate Plus Eight.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this show was massive back in the late 2000s.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: At its peak, one episode drew more than 10 million viewers.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: For anybody who may be unfamiliar with it though, the show followed John and Kate raising eight children, twins and sex toplets, and all the chaos that comes with raising that many tiny humans.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: They looked like a happy, though understandably overwhelmed family, but Colin, now 22, says that life behind the cameras was very different.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: On October 13th, 2026, Colin released a book titled In the Shadow of Eight, Surviving the Reality of My Childhood.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this book detailed the abuse, neglect, and exploitation that he endured throughout his childhood and on this show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I read that book, and y'all, it was so much worse than I imagined.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: The things that we are hearing in the headlines do not even remotely cover the extent of what he endured.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he hopes that telling his story will keep other children from experiencing what he went through.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So before we begin, a quick content warning.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: This episode contains descriptions of child abuse, neglect, physical restraint, and mistreatment in psychiatric facilities.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the details are extremely upsetting.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So please use your own discretion here when listening.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And one more quick note this episode is based primarily on Colin's book.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I am recounting the experiences he describes.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I do essentially believe him.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: That is my opinion.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: As always, form your own.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Colin Gosselin's first ever childhood memories are of cameras and microphones as his constant sidekicks.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't remember a childhood without them.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: He was born into reality TV, not reality.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Initially, he says that filming was fun.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: The production crew felt like extended family playing with him and his siblings during filming breaks.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: When the show gained more traction, it was moved from Discovery Health to TLC.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, everything got much bigger and changed a lot.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: There were more cameras, more producers, makeup artists, security, and strangers constantly in and out of the house.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: The family also moved into a larger house, but Colin says that it began feeling more like a television set than an actual home.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: He actually compares it to a successful business where the owner was thriving and counting stacks of money while the employees were miserable.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Except these employees were small children, as young as three years old at the start.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: There were expensive gifts and vacations, but Colin just wanted to play with his siblings.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to get mad or sad, and he just wanted to be a kid without being constantly directed.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: He makes some other pretty disheartening observations about growing up on television, too.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: When your entire childhood is filmed, your memories are recorded, edited, and handed back to you.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that eventually it's difficult to separate what you actually remember from what you've watched on TV.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And your memories also just don't feel like yours anymore.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Neither does your life.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: It all feels like public property.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the parents the public saw were not necessarily the parents Colin experienced behind closed doors either, especially his mother, Kate.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Colin describes Kate as being in charge of everything, including the production of the show.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: When she entered a room, even grown men working on the show would quickly get out of her way.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: The children had to cooperate and look happy, even if they weren't, or else.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Colin remembers Kate frequently leaning toward him and hissing through clenched teeth for him to smile.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And not just smile, smile correctly.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: This was whether he was having a bad day, he was upset, it didn't matter.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So eventually, her very presence became a threat.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Colin felt that his mother was significantly harder on him than his siblings.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: He learned to anticipate her moods by listening to how loudly she closed the kitchen cabinets or changes in her voice when she said his name.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Kate was on her best behavior around the crew, though.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Colin says that she was nicer to everybody when other adults were watching.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of like a buffer.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Two production assistants became almost like stand-in parents.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: They played with Colin, they checked on him, they asked him how he was doing, and they just let him be a kid, which is so sad, obviously, that he wasn't getting that from his actual parents.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And other family members started noticing, I guess, because they eventually raised concerns about the filming.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Kate's brother Kevin and his wife Jodi appeared on CBS's early show in May 2009, accusing John and Kate of exploiting their children for television ratings.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: The sex tuplets were only five years old at the time.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Jody said they complained about cameras in their bedrooms and about being filmed while they were crying.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: They were not comfortable with it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Kevin and Jodi said that they'd confronted John and Kate, but their concerns were dismissed.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Their relationship with Kate eventually deteriorated, and Colin remembers them just disappearing from his life without an explanation.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, John and Kate's marriage was falling apart.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Off camera, Colin heard explosive arguments.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: There was no humorous editing or background music like on the show, just two adults screaming while the children listened in fear.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: On June 22nd, 2009, they officially announced their separation during an episode of John and Kate Plus 8.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: This was the episode that more than 10 million people tuned in to watch.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Their divorce was finalized later that year when the sex tuplets were still just five years old.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: They initially planned to alternate staying in the family home, but eventually John moved out.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Colin had been especially close to his dad, one of the few people who made him feel safe.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: After the separation, Kate told Colin that John did not want to see him anymore.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: His siblings still visited their father, but Colin was excluded.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, John was being told the exact opposite, that Colin didn't want to see him.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that kept them apart for years.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just have to say, like, the level of evil that you have to be to do something like that to your own child.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this woman belongs in hell.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And with John no longer living in the family home, Kate's treatment of Colin became increasingly severe.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the physical punishment had actually started years earlier.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Colin discusses a journal entry in which Kate described hitting him when he was just two years old and begging God to help her stop.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: As he became older, Colin describes being spanked frequently and hard.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: He says that Kate would grab his ears, hit him on the side of his head, and sometimes it left bruises that he had to conceal.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: One of those incidents eventually caught the attention of Colin's teacher.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Colin was about nine years old and in fourth grade when Kate grabbed him by the ear and pulled so violently that his ear became swollen and purple.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: When he went to school, his teacher noticed the injury almost immediately and asked, What happened?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Colin was terrified to tell her, but she pushed and eventually he admitted that his mother had pulled him by the ear.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: His teacher took him to the guidance counselor and a report was made to Children and Youth Services, which is Pennsylvania's Child Protective Services Agency.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: About a month later, investigators came to the Gosslin home.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: One of the workers asked to speak with Colin privately.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Kate agreed, but Colin remembers seeing her watching that interview through a crack in the door.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: He never could seem to get away from Kate's intimidating presence.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And when the investigator asked whether anything concerning was happening at home, Colin said everything was fine because he was terrified of what would happen if he told the truth.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Afterward, Kate pulled Colin out of school and hired a homeschool teacher.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And let's just put all this together before I move on, because we've painted a pretty clear picture that is very upsetting.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: A child shows up to school injured.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: The school reports the injury.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: CPS investigates.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then he's immediately pulled from school.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there is no bigger red flag that child abuse is actively occurring.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hello?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the Child Protective Services visits were not limited to that single incident.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Colin says that workers returned to the house more than once and later learned that his father had received paperwork concerning 14 different complaints against Kate.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the mistreatment continued.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Colin was systematically excluded from life with his family and separated from siblings that he'd once been so close to.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he'd shared a womb with five of them.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It quite literally doesn't get any closer than that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I can only imagine how painful that must have been.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And while the other seven children ate meals together, played, watched movies, and spent time with their parents, Colin was routinely shut away in the basement.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: He was only brought upstairs under specific conditions, often after the family had finished eating, so that he could eat alone and clean up after everybody else.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he wasn't just being left out of activities.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: He was being excluded from the family itself.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was where Kate made him sleep.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: When he was just nine years old, Kate moved Colin into a basement room.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: She called it his bedroom.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: But Colin points out that bedrooms generally have doors that open from the inside.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: His didn't.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: This door was locked from the outside.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he remembers lying awake at night worrying what would happen if the house caught fire.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: He wondered if anybody would remember he was down there.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: He spent nearly every waking moment in that locked basement room, apart from homeschool, meals, and bathroom breaks.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of bathroom breaks, he was denied access to a bathroom while locked inside and recalled the pain and humiliation of having to hold it and beg to go.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: He even soiled himself on occasion, which is unthinkable for any child, but especially a child in a family like this.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they lived in this enormous 7,500 square foot home with six bedrooms and seven bathrooms, sitting on 23 acres of land.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yet Colin was made to live in a room in the unfinished basement used for storing canned goods and paper towels.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: He describes feeling like an object himself, something to be stored away, hidden from the rest of the family.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this just makes me so angry.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like Kate had millions of dollars, she had a huge house, she had nannies.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: This was not about a lack of resources.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was just plain cruelty.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: During filming one day, the family visited an escape room, and Colin jokingly said that he should be good at escaping because it was just like his room at home.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously Kate got really angry, and Colin got in serious trouble for that comment.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: His mother considered him a difficult and dangerous child for inadvertently tarnishing her reputation.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: She could not control him, and that was obviously a very big problem in her eyes.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So she started taking him to doctors and putting him on various prescriptions to remedy it.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And during this extremely difficult time, there was one adult Colin thought he could trust, and that was his homeschool teacher.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Her name was Mrs.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: He liked her and he considered her someone who cared about him.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: He thought that surely she'd see him as more than just the child that Kate always sent downstairs.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: One day, Kate went away and left Mrs.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson responsible for the children.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: They spent the evening playing, ordered pizza, and watched a movie.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Afterward, the other children went upstairs to watch television, while Mrs.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson told Colin to return to the basement.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It hurt him that even she was excluding him from the family, although it was just the norm at this point.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: She walked him down to the basement and into his room.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: He begged her not to lock the door.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: He thought surely because they'd developed a relationship, she would understand.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: But she simply said goodnight and locked the door.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Colin cried and begged her not to leave him there, but she walked away.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: He says that is when he stopped believing there were adults he could trust.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: He was eleven years old and completely jaded.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just heartbreaking.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Colin actually spent years living this way, and eventually he became so desperate that he climbed through a small basement window and ran away.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But once he got outside, the reality set in.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Where was he supposed to go?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: He'd had no contact with his father for years and did not know how to get in touch with him, and as far as he knew, his dad didn't want anything to do with him.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: He also had no money and no transportation, and he believed that anyone he approached would recognize him and of course just send him right back home.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he had been on TV for years, so the odds of him going incognito are like zero here.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So he faced the harsh reality that he had no other choice and returned home on his own.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of becoming concerned and thankful that he was safe, Kate was furious.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: She forced Colin back into the basement.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: She said that he was a burden and she threw him to the ground.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: She then restrained his wrists and his ankles with zip ties, and she left him like that for hours.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: He described hours of pain and burning and numbness in his arms, and he could not move or free himself.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, Kate returned with Mrs.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson, but Colin says her demeanor had completely changed.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: The furious woman he'd experienced earlier was suddenly behaving like a concerned mother.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was brought upstairs, strapped onto a gurney, and taken away in an ambulance.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: He asked why.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: He asked where they were taking him, but he was ignored by everybody.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: His twelfth birthday was less than a week away at this point.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: At the hospital, Colin again pleaded for more information.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why was he here?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Where was he?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: What was happening?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Again, he was just ignored.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Kate eventually arrived and spoke with the medical staff outside his room.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: He saw her, she saw him, but Colin says that she never actually came inside his room to check on him.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Shortly after that, he was transferred to a psychiatric facility called Fairmount.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: He says that he was transported there like luggage.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: He had no idea where he was going, why, or for how long, and he was terrified.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this little boy of 11 has just been ripped away from the only home and the only people that he ever knew with no reason given.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Have I mentioned that this woman is evil yet?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Fairmount was a psychiatric treatment facility in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where children and adolescents received inpatient mental health care.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was a locked facility with strict routines and constant supervision.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: There were fights, foul language, and kids who could be downright cruel.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Colin was completely unprepared, having grown up sheltered with his siblings.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: But after years of isolation, he was also a little excited just to be around kids his age.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Another boy said that stays usually lasted days or weeks, so Colin assumed that he'd go home soon.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: There was also a bathroom just steps from his bedroom, and he could use it whenever he needed to, unlike at home.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So incredibly, at first, Fairmount felt freer than home.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that feeling didn't last.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: About a week after arriving, Colin attended a meeting with staff where Kate and Mrs.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson participated by telephone.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: They described him as a danger to himself and others.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Colin tried explaining that he'd only run away because he did not feel safe at home.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: He told them about being restrained and about the years of abuse and isolation, but nobody listened.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it seemed that Fairmount was his home for now.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Four days later, he turned 12.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: He woke up to his sleeping roommate, and he wasn't really sure what to do.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this was the first birthday ever where there was nothing planned.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt wrong to just not acknowledge it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was 12.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was a kid.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So he woke his roommate up, and his roommate wished him a happy birthday, but then just went right back to sleep.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that was it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: That was all Colin got for his birthday that year.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was his first birthday ever without his siblings, and Kate did not even call.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So from here, months dragged on.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: He would wake up, eat, take medications, and wait.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Colin described spending his days in a fog, sleeping constantly, gaining weight, and becoming increasingly depressed.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Other children came and went, but Colin stayed.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: He wondered what he'd done to deserve this.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he hadn't cooperated enough with filming, so he really considered telling his mom, okay, I'll film, I'll do whatever you want.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to come home.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: But he never really got that opportunity.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: John never called him either.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Colin started believing what Kate had said, that his dad just didn't want anything to do with him.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he really was just a burden.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: During his time at Fairmount, Kate came to visit him only once.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Colin was so excited to see her.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: He'd actually been saving up points he earned at the facility so that he could get origami paper and make her something special.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: He made her a paper swan, remembering a Lego swan that he'd made for her years earlier that she liked.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: He also made gifts for each of his siblings, hoping that Kate would deliver them.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the visit was devastating.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Kate told Colin that his brothers and sisters were doing better without him around, that they were happier now that he wasn't there, and that he'd been the one causing problems in the family.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And when Colin asked her to give his siblings the gifts he'd made, she refused.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then she just left.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: But despite how terribly that visit went, Colin still desperately wanted to go home.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So as Christmas approached, he held on to the hope that maybe his mom would come back, pick him up, and take him home to spend the holidays with his family.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that never happened.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Christmas came and went without even a phone call or a card from anyone to wish him a Merry Christmas.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: After 13 months, Colin still didn't know why he was there or when he could leave.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody was telling him anything.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was worse than prison because at least in prison you know why you're there and when you can leave.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Colin had endured this for over a year and he couldn't take it anymore.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: One day during outside time, he asked permission to use the bathroom, but instead, he went to the doctor's office and knocked on the door.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: He asked the doctor again for what felt like the millionth time why he was still being held there.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Again, no answer, and the doctor tried to close the door.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Colin stopped him and repeated the question.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't demanding to leave.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: He was just asking the question, why am I still here?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: The doctor called for the staff, and two employees slammed Colin to the ground.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Then the doctor, a grown man about six feet tall, sat on his chest.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Colin kept asking, why am I here?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: until he ran out of breath.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: When he finally stopped, the staff dragged him back to his room where five or six employees held him face down on the mattress.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: A nurse pulled down his pants and injected him with a sedative.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Even as he was losing consciousness, Colin was still trying to ask, why am I here?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: But still, nobody answered him.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the next day, everything got worse.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Colin was transferred from C pod to B pod, which was a much harsher unit.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Colin was only 13 years old, but he was now surrounded by older teenagers and even grown men.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: The patients there were aggressive and talked openly about sex, drugs, and violence.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: He remembers watching straight out of Compton on the television and thinking about how he'd been playing tag with his brothers and sisters just a couple years earlier.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now he was living among people that he was terrified of, and they taunted and bullied him frequently.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Once a patient punched straight Through thick security glass with his bare fist.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, imagine being a 13-year-old and living in that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely terrifying.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the living conditions were also terrible.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Beepod was infested with ants, and when it rained, water leaked inside.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Colin says that staff used painful physical restraints when patients acted out, sometimes bending their wrists backwards so severely that it felt like they might break.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he wasn't receiving any kind of an education.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: No math, no science, no books, and no classes.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: His roommates came and went, and he studied their moods to avoid any friction or violence.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, though, he was assigned a roommate who was different.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: His name was Ryan, and Ryan would change everything.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan was being treated for substance use and self-harm, and he was just nice to Colin and they could talk.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: They eventually developed a friendship.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Colin told Ryan how he'd ended up there, and Ryan asked how long he'd been there.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Colin told him it had been more than a year, and Ryan was immediately like, um, yeah, that's weird.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's excessive.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: So for once, somebody else recognized that his situation was not normal.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So Colin started wondering if maybe Ryan could get a message to John when he was discharged.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, during group therapy one day, Colin met a teenage girl named Ava.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: They discovered that they were both from Berks County, Pennsylvania.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, Ava went to the school where Colin's uncle actually taught as a substitute teacher.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: At first, Colin couldn't believe it, but she described his uncle and confirmed that he was the soccer coach, so he believed her.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly, Colin had a connection to his father's family.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: He asked Ava to tell his uncle where he was and that he needed help.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: She agreed, but they had just met, so he wasn't 100% sure if she would follow through.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan, though, was someone that he'd trusted, and he could be discharged any day, so he knew that he had to act now.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't have his dad's phone number, but he did remember where he lived.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So he hid a piece of paper and a crayon in his sleeve and asked to use the bathroom.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Once inside, he began writing using his knee as a desk.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: His hands shook, the crayon snapped, and he was terrified that somebody would catch him.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: In the letter, Colin begged John to help him.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: He said that he still loved him, wanted to live with him, and that Kate would not allow it.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: He described being abused and basically held captive and asked his father to take the matter to court.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: He repeatedly apologized and insisted he was not trying to trick him.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: He begged John to save him and quickly.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: He added Fairmount's address and hid the letter in his shoe.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Later that night, he gave it to Ryan.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: He told him that he was his only hope.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan promised to deliver the letter.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And days later, he was discharged.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Colin had no idea whether that letter would ever reach John, but he held out hope.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: So life at Fairmount continued, and months later in January 2018, Colin was eating breakfast when a staff member told him to report to the front office.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: He thought maybe he was being transferred back to an area with younger residents.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, a social worker informed him that he was leaving Fairmount that day and that he was going to a different residential facility.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: After almost two years at Fairmount, the decision was sudden and nobody explained why.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: The staff gathered his belongings and put everything into a trash bag.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Colin climbed into a van without knowing his destination once again.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: He watched cars, gas stations, and ordinary people pass by outside, and he realized he hadn't left the grounds in nearly two years.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, they arrived at a facility called George Jr.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Republic.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: George Jr.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Republic was a residential treatment facility in Grove City, Pennsylvania, where kids lived, went to school, received counseling, and participated in recreational activities.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Colin immediately noticed there was a very big difference between this facility and Fairmount.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: The grounds were clean, the atmosphere was calm, and the staff explained the rules rather than just barking orders.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: There was none of the yelling and chaos that he'd gotten used to at Fairmount.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And to Colin's absolute delight, there were classrooms, books, worksheets, and scheduled lessons.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: He hadn't attended school alongside other students since fourth grade.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: He relished holding a pencil again and realized just how much he'd missed learning.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Doctors also discussed his medications and asked how they made him feel.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Colin said he felt slow and unlike himself.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: One doctor suggested that he might not need everything he'd been prescribed.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of the first times a doctor had actually asked Colin about his own experience and not just gave him a pill to take.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Over approximately five months, most medications were gradually reduced.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Colin began losing weight, sleeping less during the day, and thinking clearly again.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: He later learned they included drugs used for schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety, attention disorders, and seizures, without anyone at Fairmount explaining to him why he was taking them.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: He also began seeing a counselor who actually listened to him, and gradually Colin learned to trust him.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then one day, that counselor told Colin he'd contacted John and he asked if he'd like to speak to his father.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Colin could barely believe it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: His dad?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: He immediately agreed to take the call, although he was terrified about how it would go.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: They hadn't spoken in years, and he believed that his dad just didn't want him.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: But when John answered, his voice was warm and loving.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Colin broke down, crying so hard he could barely speak.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: He kept apologizing and telling John how much he missed him.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: John was crying too and said that he'd missed him too and promised that they were working on bringing him home.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: They caught up and John told him about his girlfriend Colleen, their dog Rocky, and Hannah, Colin's sibling, who was now living with them.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: The goal was to have Colin with them too.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Over the following six months, John and Colin spoke weekly, and John told him something stunning.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: John said that he had been searching for Colin for years.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Colin thought that John knew where he was and just didn't care, but John said that was not true.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: He recalled going to the children's school and discovering that Colin wasn't there.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: When he asked Colin's sibling where he was, they just said he was at home.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, John learned through child protective services that Colin had been placed in a facility, but he couldn't figure out where.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, John had been told that Colin did not want to see him.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then he revealed that he had received that letter from Ryan, the letter Colin wrote with a crayon.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: It had actually reached his father.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: John explained that he'd immediately petitioned the court to modify custody, but Kate had all the legal control.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: He couldn't just immediately take Colin home as much as he wanted to.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: He said he'd actually gone to Fairmount to retrieve Colin only to discover that he'd already been transferred to George Jr.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Republic.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for the first time ever, Colin knew that his dad had been fighting for him.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, John and Hannah were allowed to visit Colin, and the reunion was, of course, very emotional.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Colin ran into his father's arms and they both sobbed.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when he looked at Hannah, he could hardly believe how much she'd grown since he'd last seen her.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: But seeing his sister Hannah was bittersweet.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: She had grown into a teenager with friends, school, and a life that Colin hadn't been a part of.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: He was happy to see her, but he also felt jealous of everything that he'd missed while his own life had essentially been on hold.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: They continued visiting, and eventually Colin was allowed to leave the facility for lunch.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: At the restaurant, Colin was so overwhelmed by all the people and the noise, and when the waiter handed him the menu, he froze.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: He'd spent years having every decision made for him, and he couldn't remember how to choose.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, he ordered a hamburger and fries.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: For once, he asked for something, and someone listened.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: That was a very new and very welcome feeling for Colin.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, his counselor told him the visits with John were going well and he was going home.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Colin almost couldn't believe the news after so many disappointments.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Four days later, he was discharged.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: The other boys gathered to hug him goodbye, and George Jr.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Republic sent him home with a duffel bag rather than the trash bag he'd arrived with.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Colin says that small dignity meant the world to him, and he still has that duffel bag.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: After a four-hour bus ride, Colin saw John waiting at his stop, and he ran straight into his arms.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: This time he wasn't going back.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Colin went for the back seat on John's car, but John told him that he was 14 now and he could ride up front.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: He marveled at the radio and the temperature controls.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: The last time he'd ridden in a regular car, he'd been too young for the front seat.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: John was actually in the process of moving into his girlfriend Colleen's house during this time, and Hannah was living there as well as Colleen's daughter, Jordan.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: The house was decorated for Christmas, and Colleen welcomed Pauline warmly.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: After Kate, though, Colin was nervous about another maternal figure, but Colleen seemed genuine.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then they showed him his bedroom.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: A queen size bed, soft blankets, and space that belonged only to him.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: He recognized one of the blankets on the bed, and it had a wolf on it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: It belonged to his brother, Joel.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: It reminded him of his absent siblings, and John said that they hadn't visited in years.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Colin wondered whether Kate had told them something similar to what she'd told him about John.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Still, he was home for Christmas.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: He thought about sleeping in and waking up when he wanted to, for the first time in years.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: But coming home, of course, did not erase the years of trauma.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: When John bought Hannah platform sneakers one day, Colin got jealous and accused his dad of always buying her things.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: They argued, and Colin told John that he hadn't been there for him for years.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I mean that comment hurt John, considering just how hard he'd fought to bring Colin home.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I get it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Colin still ultimately spent years without his father, and he suffered in unimaginable ways.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: He believed his dad did not want him and that he was a burden.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Even if that wasn't true, that leaves a mark no matter what.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: But they have continued to work on their relationship and things are improving.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: In the spring of 2019, just a few months after Colin came home, there was a court-mandated reunion involving all six sex tuplets.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Neither parent was allowed to attend.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: They met at an arcade they'd gone to as kids.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Initially, it was extremely awkward.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: But eventually they played some games and things loosened up.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Colin was trying so hard to make the reunion go well.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: He missed his siblings.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: He bought everybody lemonade and put money on their arcade cards.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: He felt that if he didn't have anything else to offer his siblings, he could at least offer them money.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when his money ran out, that awkward silence returned, and the visit ended shortly after.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Colin says that he hasn't seen those four siblings since that day, which is so sad, y'all.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: As Colin got older, he joined ROTC at high school and became interested in military service.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: But at home, more challenges followed.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: During the pandemic, John contracted COVID and pneumonia and spent 11 days hospitalized.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Then Colleen was diagnosed with breast cancer.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Both illnesses terrified Colin, bringing back his fear of losing people he loved.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And by summer 2021, John and Colleen ended their relationship after about seven years together.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: They remained friends, though, and Colleen continued being a maternal figure in Colin's life.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: After all that, Colin remained determined to join the military.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Initially, he considered the army, but after meeting a Marine recruiter, he decided he wanted the challenge of becoming a Marine.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: The recruiter warned how grueling the training would be, but Colin was not discouraged.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: He'd already been through incredibly difficult experiences before, but he never chose those.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: He hadn't chosen to grow up on television or be separated from his family or be institutionalized.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: But this was his choice.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: He graduated with honors and received an award for having the highest GPA, and to the Marines he went.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, his dream of becoming a Marine came crashing down.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: In 2023, he was training at Paris Island, just a week and a half from the crucible, which is the grueling final major challenge recruits face before becoming Marines, when he was called into the medical office.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: He had already worked for weeks to get to that point.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently, officials had learned about his history and institutions and his mental health, and they had concerns.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Around that time, Kate had publicly responded to accusations Colin made about his childhood in a documentary.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: She claimed that he'd received multiple psychiatric diagnoses, including bipolar disorder, autism, ADHD, and OCD.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Colin believes those public statements led the Marines to question his fitness for service.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: He was told he could not continue training until he underwent a comprehensive psychological evaluation to address those concerns, and he was discharged.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for Colin, the Marines was not just about having a career.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted that sense of brotherhood and belonging that he'd been missing for so much of his life.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But Colin was not willing to give up without a fight.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Almost immediately after returning home, he started calling psychologists to arrange an independent evaluation.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted a chance to go back and finish what he'd started.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: He ended up spending about$2,000 of the money that he'd earned during boot camp to pay for it.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: The evaluation took five or six hours and included hundreds of questions.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: The psychologist ruled out the psychiatric diagnoses that had been attributed to him, finding no basis for those conditions or evidence of another psychiatric disorder.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: He made those results public, but even with the paperwork, Colin didn't get to return and finish marine training.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: As of October 2026, Colin is 22 years old and attending Penn State, where he's studying finance.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: He also started a pressure washing business.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: His memoir is out and he hopes it helps other children who face abuse and exploitation.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: He still hasn't abandoned his desire to help people.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's even talked about eventually creating a foundation for children who need support and protection.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: And y'all, before we wrap this up, there have been some pretty significant developments in this case just in the last few days.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: First, yesterday, October 23rd, a former Gosselin family housekeeper and nanny named Ashley spoke out in an interview with People magazine.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ashley worked for the family around 2013, and she says that she personally witnessed Kate mistreating Colin.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: She described Kate grabbing him by the ear, physically pulling him out of his chair, and singling him out for abuse.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And get this, Ashley says that she was so concerned that she actually reported Kate to Burks County Children and Youth Services.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: So now we have a former employee coming forward and describing some of the exact same treatment Colin has been alleging for years.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, Kate has been defending herself in TikTok comments, once again bringing up Colin's alleged mental health issues.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: She insists that her children know who she really is.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's also sadly been some drama involving his sister Hannah, which is really unfortunate considering how close she and Colin had become after their reunion with John.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: On October 21st, Hannah publicly claimed that she hadn't spoken to Colin in nearly a year and that she's maintained relationships with Kate and their other siblings.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: But on the very next day, Colin appeared on the view and disputed that, saying that he'd actually seen Hannah several times over the past year.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: He also suggested that Kate may be using money and Hannah's relationships with their siblings to influence her.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just so sad that these kids are still dealing with all this family drama as adults after everything they've already been through.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's still a tug of war.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: And lastly, Netflix just announced on October 21st that a new documentary about the Gosselin family is in the works, with John, Colin, and Hannah all participating.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's no release date yet, but I will definitely be keeping an eye out for that one.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: So clearly, this story is still developing, and I would not be surprised if it tragically gets even messier based on what we're hearing.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, though, Colin's story is heartbreaking.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: This little boy spent his entire childhood being filmed for the entertainment of millions and exploited financially.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was forced to put on a happy face for all of it while he was suffering in ways nobody watching at home could have imagined.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: He deserved to feel safe and loved and protected, and he deserved to grow up with his brothers and sisters and just be a kid.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: And his story raises a serious issue that we all need to be discussing.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we still allowing children to be exploited for entertainment?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because this isn't just reality TV anymore.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's family vloggers, YouTube, TikTok, and parents who have turned their children's entire lives into content and called it a career.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about kids who are too young to understand what it means to have their most personal moments broadcast to millions of strangers.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Children cannot consent to having their childhoods documented and monetized.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it may look like fun and games from the outside when you're watching those videos, but make no mistake, it is work.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's real labor, and it is completely unethical.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: They are put under enormous pressure to be the breadwinner for the entire family in some cases.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Multiple children who grew up in that environment have spoken out about how grueling and damaging it is.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: And who's protecting the money they earn?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who's making sure that they have their privacy or that they can say no?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Who is looking out for their interests instead of everybody's bank accounts?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: We shouldn't have to wait until these children grow up and write books about what happened to them before we start taking this seriously.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, some progress is being made.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: States like Illinois, California, and Minnesota have passed laws protecting child influencers, including requiring parents to set aside some of the money for their children.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: But that is nowhere near enough.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, just the term child influencer gives me the ick.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Child influencers should not exist.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: We need stronger laws, actual oversight, and accountability for the adults making money off of these children.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I also really encourage y'all to read Colin's book, In the Shadow of Eight, Surviving the Reality of My Childhood.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: As much as I've covered today, there is so much more to his story that I just could not have fit into the episode.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And hearing everything in his own words is absolutely worth it.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am so glad that he is finally getting to live his own life and make his own decisions.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: I hope he gets every opportunity to build the future that he wants.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And more than anything, I hope his story does help bring about meaningful change so that fewer children have to endure what he did.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, y'all, that is all I've got for today, and I will see you Friday when our Halloween spectacular continues.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, be divas, not deadly.