Latest / Beautifully Complex / 296: Supporting Executive Function: Strategies for Managing Daily Tasks, with Carrie Bonnett

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296: Supporting Executive Function: Strategies for Managing Daily Tasks, with Carrie Bonnett · Beautifully Complex

0:03
Speaker 1: Some kids have a hard time picture. Some kids have
0:06
Speaker 1: a hard time picturing themselves doing a task or what
0:10
Speaker 1: it looks like to be ready to walk out the door.
0:13
Speaker 1: Sometimes an actual photo of the dressed child with the
0:17
Speaker 1: backpack and the water bottle and their iPad and their
0:20
Speaker 1: jacket can be really helpful. It seems really simple, but
0:24
Speaker 1: those types of things can be super, super helpful.
0:29
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
0:33
Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
0:37
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
0:41
Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
0:44
Speaker 2: of raising your a typical kid. Let's get started. Welcome
0:51
Speaker 2: back to Beautifully Complex everyone. I'm so happy that you're here.
0:55
Speaker 2: I have here with me Carrie Bonnet, and she is
1:00
Speaker 2: an executive functioning coach, and we are going to talk
1:02
Speaker 2: about executive functioning and how we can help our kids
1:06
Speaker 2: with those daily tests, those daily activities, things that complex
1:10
Speaker 2: kids often struggle with. Carrie, will you start by letting
1:14
Speaker 2: everybody know who you are and what you do.
1:17
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm Carrie Bonnette. I am
1:20
Speaker 1: an executive function coach. I live in Bend, Oregon. I
1:24
Speaker 1: work with students and families, mostly middle school and up,
1:29
Speaker 1: but also adults who are struggling to get their important
1:33
Speaker 1: things done. And so I work one on one with
1:36
Speaker 1: with sometimes with students with their whole family. I do
1:39
Speaker 1: parent presentations and teacher trainings and I love, love, love
1:44
Speaker 1: talking about executive function and so I'm so glad to
1:47
Speaker 1: be here. Thanks Benny.
1:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm super excited to talk with you to get
1:52
Speaker 2: another perspective on executive functioning and also strategies, really practical
1:58
Speaker 2: and actionable things that our parents who are can take
2:00
Speaker 2: with them and help to support right and empower their kids.
2:06
Speaker 2: Let's start with sort of defining executive functioning for anybody
2:11
Speaker 2: who doesn't know what it is and maybe the aspects
2:15
Speaker 2: of our day to day life that it might impact. Yeah,
2:19
Speaker 2: to be honest, I wish we had a different term
2:22
Speaker 2: for this thing. So executive function they are brain skills.
2:26
Speaker 2: So executive function skills are brain skills that help us
2:29
Speaker 2: get our important things done, like I mentioned a moment ago,
2:32
Speaker 2: getting our important things done.
2:34
Speaker 1: But it doesn't like that term. I don't love it.
2:36
Speaker 1: I wish we had something else. I don't have an
2:39
Speaker 1: alternative though, I haven't come up with one yet that
2:41
Speaker 1: I think is better. But it comes from the word execute, right,
2:44
Speaker 1: like we have to execute tasks, and so that's where
2:47
Speaker 1: this term comes from. So what we're talking about really
2:50
Speaker 1: is things like time management and organization and emotional regulation
2:58
Speaker 1: and planning and getting started, like, all of these are
3:02
Speaker 1: our skills. And for in my work, there's skills that
3:05
Speaker 1: we must teach to students, to kids. So the executive
3:10
Speaker 1: function skills are real important, especially in the day to
3:13
Speaker 1: day and also the research is really clear they have
3:17
Speaker 1: to be explicitly taught. We don't just learn them from
3:20
Speaker 1: the atmosphere.
3:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And we we've come to expect that though,
3:26
Speaker 2: that kids just grow up and they naturally learn skills, right,
3:30
Speaker 2: And I guess for maybe a few kids that might
3:33
Speaker 2: be true, they'll learn most of it along the way.
3:36
Speaker 2: But especially for our complex kids, kids who have neuro divergence,
3:41
Speaker 2: they really need some explicit instruction and scaffolding and support, right,
3:48
Speaker 2: because not every executive functioning delay is going to come
3:54
Speaker 2: up to be one hundred percent at some point in
3:56
Speaker 2: their life.
3:57
Speaker 1: Right.
3:57
Speaker 2: So sometimes you know, there are people who are really
4:00
Speaker 2: great at organizing and planning. There are people who just
4:03
Speaker 2: really aren't wired that way, and so they need strategies
4:08
Speaker 2: and supports and tools, right, So let's talk about some
4:11
Speaker 2: of that. For first, I think let's talk about how
4:14
Speaker 2: does it impact the day to day for our complex kids,
4:18
Speaker 2: like morning routine, homework, bedtime routine, those sort of things,
4:23
Speaker 2: having what you need when you get to school or
4:25
Speaker 2: having what you need when you get home. How are
4:28
Speaker 2: these delays in those skills affecting those times?
4:33
Speaker 1: I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is
4:35
Speaker 1: it can be really stressful for a kid. You know,
4:38
Speaker 1: we're talking about kids in particular, for a student who
4:41
Speaker 1: struggles with any of that stuff, the morning routine, getting
4:44
Speaker 1: up in the morning, getting out the door, making sure
4:46
Speaker 1: they have the materials when they get to school. If
4:48
Speaker 1: there are challenges, it's stressful, right for the kid and
4:53
Speaker 1: also for us as the parents and the teachers. But
4:56
Speaker 1: it's stressful. So, and I mentioned the emotional regulation is
5:00
Speaker 1: part of executive function too, and so that becomes especially
5:05
Speaker 1: necessary to talk about, is like what do we do
5:08
Speaker 1: when they don't have their materials or when they're rushing
5:11
Speaker 1: to get out the door again and again and again.
5:14
Speaker 1: So you know, what are the things that we can
5:16
Speaker 1: do to you mentioned scaffolding. I love that, right, like
5:18
Speaker 1: what can we do as the adults in their lives
5:21
Speaker 1: to make it less stressful? And I mean, honestly, the
5:24
Speaker 1: way I describe my work is like, you know, part education,
5:28
Speaker 1: like what is this thing called executive function? But also
5:30
Speaker 1: like how what are the strategies to make life easier?
5:35
Speaker 1: That's it, Like, that's what we want is we want
5:37
Speaker 1: to make life easier. And usually kids are open to that.
5:40
Speaker 1: They're interested in making life easier. Adults too, Yeah, making
5:45
Speaker 1: life easy. I think we all are.
5:47
Speaker 2: As you were talking, I was thinking like proactive steps
5:51
Speaker 2: and in the moment like what can we do? Right?
5:55
Speaker 2: So do you want to talk about maybe some proactive
5:57
Speaker 2: steps first? Like the first step I think is figuring
6:01
Speaker 2: out where your kid's executive function is. Where are they delayed,
6:07
Speaker 2: where do they need support, what pieces of executive function
6:11
Speaker 2: are they maybe really good with.
6:13
Speaker 1: I love that when I work with families and do
6:15
Speaker 1: any kind of presentation to any adults, I always actually
6:19
Speaker 1: ask the adults to recognize and sort of figure out
6:23
Speaker 1: how their executive function is first before then making an
6:28
Speaker 1: assessment of a kid. I mean we know the things
6:31
Speaker 1: that our brain is not great at. I could tell
6:34
Speaker 1: you right now there's some things that are not My
6:36
Speaker 1: brain is not awesome at, things like changing gears, like flexibility,
6:40
Speaker 1: that's not my brain's strong suit. And so even backing
6:44
Speaker 1: up before asking how are my students' executive function skills?
6:48
Speaker 1: I think it's important as adults to like just recognize, oh,
6:52
Speaker 1: these are the things that cause me stress, and then yes,
6:56
Speaker 1: then recognize are they the same skills that are our
7:00
Speaker 1: students are struggling with? Maybe not in my house. Some
7:04
Speaker 1: of the things that my brain struggles with are also
7:06
Speaker 1: the things that my kids struggle with, but not all.
7:09
Speaker 1: And so I do think it's helpful to do some
7:11
Speaker 1: self reflection and then figure out like, Okay, is it
7:15
Speaker 1: time management? Is it planning? Is it just waking up
7:20
Speaker 1: in the morning, like is it sort of seeing the future?
7:23
Speaker 1: Like thinking about like rehearsing for the morning that you
7:27
Speaker 1: know that you're going to have to get up and
7:29
Speaker 1: then get your sports gear and then you have to
7:32
Speaker 1: have your breakfast. You know, what is the skill that
7:35
Speaker 1: is the most challenging? And then of course, you know,
7:38
Speaker 1: one of the things that I talk about with clients
7:39
Speaker 1: all the time is that you cannot attack it all
7:42
Speaker 1: at once. So like baby steps, little by little, really
7:46
Speaker 1: really tiny, tiny scaffolding at first, right, Like we can't
7:51
Speaker 1: we can't try to attack it all at once. So
7:53
Speaker 1: choosing what's affecting us the most.
7:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, the highest priority. I love that you brought up
7:59
Speaker 2: taking little staff because that is one of my big
8:03
Speaker 2: things that I do for myself, but it's also become
8:07
Speaker 2: a thing that I really focus on in coaching other parents, Like,
8:11
Speaker 2: as long as we're making some progress, it really doesn't
8:14
Speaker 2: matter how tiny. If we expect all at once, we're
8:18
Speaker 2: all going to get disappointed because we know it can't happen.
8:23
Speaker 2: But if we expect small steps and those are doable,
8:27
Speaker 2: now we have successes, and from some successes, those can
8:31
Speaker 2: snowball right into more and more successes. Where if we
8:35
Speaker 2: just say, hey, you've got to do this and it's
8:38
Speaker 2: not attainable all at once, then they feel like a failure,
8:41
Speaker 2: We get frustrated, and everybody wants to give up.
8:44
Speaker 1: Right.
8:45
Speaker 2: It just sets it up as a very different process
8:47
Speaker 2: and different energy in my mind, and.
8:50
Speaker 1: I like to honor and recognize and celebrate the little
8:53
Speaker 1: baby steps, the little wins because I mean, let's be honest,
8:56
Speaker 1: the kids that I work with and the parents of
8:59
Speaker 1: kids you work with, it's not easy, right, and so
9:03
Speaker 1: they get a lot of negative feedback. So when we
9:06
Speaker 1: can celebrate the little wins, that is huge too, that's
9:09
Speaker 1: really helpful.
9:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how do we determine those priorities? Are there
9:16
Speaker 2: some executive function skills that help in a lot of
9:21
Speaker 2: areas and some that might help in smaller areas? Like
9:24
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, what's foundation all? Yeah, that we can work
9:28
Speaker 2: on that could really help in a lot of areas.
9:31
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the biggest priority.
9:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what comes to mind for me is
9:35
Speaker 1: the emotional control part. And also which is similar but
9:40
Speaker 1: sort of impulse control, right, Like I call it being
9:42
Speaker 1: able to say not now to the big emotions or
9:47
Speaker 1: to something impulsive, some impulsive behavior. And most of the
9:52
Speaker 1: strategies around those two skills are preemptive in nature, like yeah,
9:59
Speaker 1: how is their sleep? Have you had any food today
10:03
Speaker 1: or you're getting a little hungry, or what about have
10:05
Speaker 1: you moved your body lately? Or what about one on
10:08
Speaker 1: one connection with your kid, like having some alone time,
10:12
Speaker 1: some connection? So are there things you can do in
10:15
Speaker 1: the moment? Absolutely, But those are the things that come
10:17
Speaker 1: to mind. You mentioned the word foundational. That's that's what
10:21
Speaker 1: I see as foundational is like this impulse control. Can
10:24
Speaker 1: I say nope, you know, I'm not going to cry
10:29
Speaker 1: in class, or I'm not going to rage at my
10:31
Speaker 1: teacher even though I'm mad, or I'm not going to
10:34
Speaker 1: interrupt or grab or you know, other types of physical
10:38
Speaker 1: impulsive behavior like can you say not now? And sometimes
10:41
Speaker 1: the answers no, like I can't say not now to
10:44
Speaker 1: those things. Yeah, So teaching things like breathwork and mindfulness
10:48
Speaker 1: practice can be can be really great just naming, just
10:52
Speaker 1: being able to name your emotions, naming the things that
10:55
Speaker 1: are going on, like oh, yes, I noticed. I love
10:59
Speaker 1: the notice. I do too. I love this, Like what
11:03
Speaker 1: do you notice? But you can't do that in the
11:06
Speaker 1: moment of heat, you know, that's too right, too difficult, right,
11:10
Speaker 1: the brain's not ready for that. But after the fact,
11:12
Speaker 1: like what did you notice about that? Sometimes students can't
11:15
Speaker 1: quite pinpoint it and we can help them with that.
11:18
Speaker 1: I think those two primarily are the biggies. Like, in
11:20
Speaker 1: terms of foundational skills.
11:32
Speaker 2: You sort of outline some things that prime the system
11:35
Speaker 2: in my mind, you know, making sure that you've had
11:38
Speaker 2: good sleep, you've eaten or your kid's eaten, they've had
11:42
Speaker 2: some water, like you know, they have maybe got some
11:45
Speaker 2: of the wiggles out or the energy out to be
11:47
Speaker 2: able to sit down and do a task whatever it is,
11:49
Speaker 2: Like we can set them up and their body up
11:53
Speaker 2: to be the most successful. If they're coming into a
11:56
Speaker 2: task regulated, then they're thinking brain it's online accessible, right,
11:59
Speaker 2: They're coming into has disregulated. We're already really struggling with
12:04
Speaker 2: that cognitive function. So executive functioning is going to be
12:07
Speaker 2: super difficult if it happens at all.
12:09
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, it's almost shut off, right, like when
12:12
Speaker 1: you're dysregulated, that thinking part of your brain is not accessible.
12:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm wondering if we can talk about some specific
12:18
Speaker 2: strategies for some different times of the day that I
12:23
Speaker 2: hear a lot of feedback from parents that are the
12:26
Speaker 2: most challenging and were for me as well when my
12:29
Speaker 2: kid was young. So the morning, I think is the
12:32
Speaker 2: one that just gets everybody. Everyone things to do in
12:37
Speaker 2: the morning.
12:38
Speaker 1: There's so many things.
12:39
Speaker 2: There's sequencing, there's organization, planning, there's not getting distracted, there's
12:46
Speaker 2: making transitions, there's so many things.
12:49
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of transitions, right, Yeah,
12:52
Speaker 1: you have to wake up, then you have to get
12:54
Speaker 1: yourself to hopefully breakfast, then you have to brush your teeth,
12:57
Speaker 1: maybe they might have to get dressed. There's so many
12:59
Speaker 1: transition mm hmm.
13:01
Speaker 2: Are there some tools or some strategies that you find
13:04
Speaker 2: really helpful at those times?
13:06
Speaker 1: Yes? I would say as a general theme, a couple
13:10
Speaker 1: of things come to mind. One is I call it
13:12
Speaker 1: making the invisible visible, which is like visual stuff right
13:17
Speaker 1: like out of sight, out of mind is for real.
13:19
Speaker 1: So one of the like, I don't know, it's not
13:22
Speaker 1: really a simple thing because there's so much going on,
13:25
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, but whenever possible to make all the
13:27
Speaker 1: invisible stuff more visible for our kids, that could be
13:32
Speaker 1: like almost like a schedule, like by this time we
13:35
Speaker 1: have to be here. By this time we have to
13:37
Speaker 1: be here and make it very visual and keep it
13:40
Speaker 1: in your face like it has to be insight. It
13:43
Speaker 1: could be using timers, or it could be using an
13:46
Speaker 1: analog clock of some kind to keep time. Time is invisible,
13:51
Speaker 1: to keep time kind of insight. Some kids have a
13:55
Speaker 1: hard time picturing themselves doing a task or what it
13:59
Speaker 1: looks like to be ready to walk out the door.
14:02
Speaker 1: So I'm sure that you have talked to people about
14:04
Speaker 1: this before, but sometimes an actual photo of the dressed
14:08
Speaker 1: child with the backpack and the water bottle and their
14:10
Speaker 1: iPad and their jacket can be really helpful. It seems
14:14
Speaker 1: really simple, but those types of things can be super
14:17
Speaker 1: super helpful. I mean something. It's not really mourning. But
14:21
Speaker 1: another sort of theme that I like to share with
14:23
Speaker 1: people is to try to be kind to future you.
14:27
Speaker 1: So parents be kind to future you. Bye, maybe doing
14:31
Speaker 1: some of the things the night before if possible, like
14:34
Speaker 1: making the lunch, like choosing breakfast even with your kid,
14:38
Speaker 1: Like you could even create a little menu and they check.
14:41
Speaker 1: I would like, you know, yogurt and cereal and fruit,
14:44
Speaker 1: and then that's what's for breakfast the next morning. So
14:47
Speaker 1: like coming up with ways to not have the morning
14:50
Speaker 1: be so packed and so fraught, including visual things. I
14:54
Speaker 1: think making all that stuff more visible and maybe visual cues,
14:58
Speaker 1: right like the photograph. And you mentioned getting distracted. I
15:02
Speaker 1: have a daughter who definitely gets distracted during breakfast. Oh
15:05
Speaker 1: what do you got there.
15:06
Speaker 2: For anybody watching this on video? They can see But
15:08
Speaker 2: I have this new product from time Timer. They sent
15:11
Speaker 2: this to me, and I was so in love with
15:14
Speaker 2: it because not only does it have the time timer
15:17
Speaker 2: worth the disc, it has all these little cards of
15:20
Speaker 2: like tasks for kids that you clip at the times,
15:24
Speaker 2: and it has a dry race marker to write on here,
15:26
Speaker 2: so you can make your entire morning routine on here
15:31
Speaker 2: and they can see the time going. And so as
15:34
Speaker 2: soon as you were talking about that, I was like, oh,
15:36
Speaker 2: I got my little favorite tool over here that I
15:38
Speaker 2: have to share for people who are watching the video, let.
15:42
Speaker 1: Me show you one that I used too. So I
15:44
Speaker 1: love yeah timer, but I have this little tiny analog
15:47
Speaker 1: clock that I use and these little post it flags,
15:50
Speaker 1: you know, and same deal, like you just put you
15:53
Speaker 1: could label them and this is when you need to
15:55
Speaker 1: be finished with breakfast, and this is when you need
15:57
Speaker 1: to be out the door. And this is the same idea, right,
16:00
Speaker 1: it's just making it visible.
16:02
Speaker 2: I think one of the.
16:03
Speaker 1: Hardest things about like adulting or student ing or whatever
16:07
Speaker 1: is is just invisible. And it's weird. Sometimes time feels fast,
16:11
Speaker 1: sometimes time feels slow. Yeah, but time is time. So
16:15
Speaker 1: like making sure that kids can see and you mentioned
16:19
Speaker 1: the morning, but like for after school time also there's
16:23
Speaker 1: you know, expectations that we have of our kids when
16:25
Speaker 1: they get home from school. But they're invisible unless we
16:29
Speaker 1: make them more visible. Yeah.
16:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, visibility was key for us too. M Yeah, like
16:35
Speaker 2: for my son for cleaning up his room, Like if
16:38
Speaker 2: I just had clean up your room. We had very
16:40
Speaker 2: different ideas of what that looks like, right, And so
16:43
Speaker 2: when he was younger, like I had photos of like
16:47
Speaker 2: even with him in it, with this area tidy. Okay,
16:51
Speaker 2: this is what it looks like with your desk. This
16:53
Speaker 2: is my expectation. And it was a little flip thing.
16:56
Speaker 2: So he could do one area at a time with
16:58
Speaker 2: the little magnet flip it. And at the end there
17:01
Speaker 2: was a reward because let's face it, rewards are motivating
17:04
Speaker 2: also for all of us. And so having that visual
17:09
Speaker 2: was so, so so important. And I could have explained
17:13
Speaker 2: your desktop doesn't have anything but your computer on it
17:16
Speaker 2: or something like that. You know, all the doors of
17:18
Speaker 2: your dresser are pushed in and your clos are inside them.
17:21
Speaker 2: It's different to have a visual. It makes a huge difference.
17:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, you made me think of when you were saying
17:29
Speaker 1: it was one thing at a time, like I'm picturing
17:31
Speaker 1: it like a spiral flip chart or something. But yeah,
17:34
Speaker 1: that's another thing to consider is like one instruction at
17:38
Speaker 1: a time in the morning too, especially in the morning
17:40
Speaker 1: they're tired and they're maybe not super excited to go
17:43
Speaker 1: to school. And another thing to just consider is that
17:46
Speaker 1: we tend to overload a kid and particularly they're working memory,
17:51
Speaker 1: like they truly cannot remember more than one or two
17:53
Speaker 1: tasks or instructions at a time. So being aware of
17:57
Speaker 1: that as adults, right, the loving, caring adult in their life.
18:00
Speaker 1: But we want them to be successful. So I love
18:02
Speaker 1: that that you just did one thing at a time.
18:04
Speaker 1: This is let's work on this thing right now. Don't
18:07
Speaker 1: worry about your bed, don't worry about that, we're just
18:09
Speaker 1: working on your desk.
18:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes it less overwhelming too. Yeah, totally. What
18:15
Speaker 2: about homework time. Let's talk about homework time, because that's
18:18
Speaker 2: the other biggest struggle I think, and you know, complex
18:23
Speaker 2: kids often don't like school, or school is harder for them,
18:27
Speaker 2: or you know, they just don't want to do any
18:28
Speaker 2: more school after they've been there all day. So it
18:31
Speaker 2: tends to be a time of great power struggle, big emotions.
18:36
Speaker 2: What can we do to set our kids up for
18:39
Speaker 2: success at that time.
18:40
Speaker 1: One thing I think is important is to have a
18:42
Speaker 1: conversation with your kid about after school. So my daughter,
18:47
Speaker 1: she's eleven, she does ride the bus home, so she
18:51
Speaker 1: has like a significant break I guess between school and home,
18:55
Speaker 1: if you want to call it that. But she likes
18:57
Speaker 1: to come straight home, literally sit down and immediately work
19:00
Speaker 1: on anything and get it done and out of the way.
19:04
Speaker 1: My son not so much. He would like to have
19:07
Speaker 1: a snack, he would like to shoot some baskets, He
19:10
Speaker 1: would like to just take a little bit of a break.
19:13
Speaker 1: So I think knowing what your child needs wants and
19:17
Speaker 1: then honoring that can be powerful, while also acknowledging there's
19:22
Speaker 1: homework to be done, so you know you can't Maybe
19:25
Speaker 1: your child says, I want to play video games for
19:27
Speaker 1: two hours or I want to like do nothing until
19:30
Speaker 1: at nine pm. Well let's put some boundaries on that.
19:33
Speaker 1: As parents, maybe you offer a choice like do you
19:36
Speaker 1: want to start your homework at you know this time
19:39
Speaker 1: or this time rather than having it totally wide open,
19:43
Speaker 1: but having some input, right, Like, we want our kids
19:45
Speaker 1: to have some agency over that, especially as they get
19:47
Speaker 1: older minor, middle and high school. So I think part
19:50
Speaker 1: of that is really important. Like what do they need?
19:53
Speaker 1: And then you know, another thing that comes to mind
19:56
Speaker 1: is making sure they have a space where everything is
20:00
Speaker 1: there that they need, right like a study space. You
20:04
Speaker 1: set it up very intentionally. Maybe it's a desk, maybe
20:07
Speaker 1: it's at your kitchen counter, but there's a basket with
20:11
Speaker 1: pencils and a calculator and whatever, the paper and something there.
20:15
Speaker 1: So setting up the workspace very intentionally so that they
20:20
Speaker 1: have what they need and it's not a back and
20:22
Speaker 1: forth like oh I forgot, I've got to go my pencil.
20:24
Speaker 1: Oh I got to go get the paper. Oh I
20:25
Speaker 1: got it. You know, and again you need to have
20:28
Speaker 1: a good conversation with your kid about what things do
20:31
Speaker 1: you need for your homework. In my house, typically it's
20:34
Speaker 1: mostly just the iPad these days, but sometimes when they
20:37
Speaker 1: were younger, and sometimes they need scratch paper to work
20:40
Speaker 1: on a math problem. And so just having your workspace
20:43
Speaker 1: set up very intentionally. Some students that I work with
20:48
Speaker 1: like to and can manage being in their room at
20:50
Speaker 1: a desk, but many cannot. There's too many distractions in
20:55
Speaker 1: the bedroom. So also figuring out where the best place
20:58
Speaker 1: is with some put from your child can be great.
21:01
Speaker 1: My daughter likes to work at the kitchen counter. My
21:03
Speaker 1: son likes to work at the dining room table. They
21:06
Speaker 1: don't like to work in their room. Might be because we
21:09
Speaker 1: don't allow screens in their bedroom. Maybe that's why.
21:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. And for my kid, it was literally like upside
21:16
Speaker 2: down on the bed is how he read, because that
21:20
Speaker 2: was how he could get his brain to focus long
21:22
Speaker 2: enough to do it, you know, because the ADHD was
21:26
Speaker 2: so strong when he was younger.
21:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so like I was.
21:31
Speaker 2: You don't have to sit at a desk, you don't
21:33
Speaker 2: have to sit a counter on a table. I don't care.
21:35
Speaker 2: If you're doing the work, do it how you need
21:37
Speaker 2: to do it. And we had that homework station set
21:40
Speaker 2: up like you're talking about. We had all the paper,
21:42
Speaker 2: the pencils that were already sharpened, all the things that
21:45
Speaker 2: you could use as a crastination. We had in a caddy.
21:50
Speaker 2: Actually that was portable because he liked to do things
21:52
Speaker 2: in different places, so stuff he could take with him.
21:55
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's actually really great. That's great for brains too,
21:58
Speaker 1: because sometimes my brain worked well here but not always.
22:01
Speaker 1: So to be able to carry it with you when
22:03
Speaker 1: you need and you're like, I'm going to try a
22:05
Speaker 1: different place because my brain kind of likes novelty, Like,
22:08
Speaker 1: what else could I do to make this more interesting?
22:11
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have talked to folks on your podcast
22:14
Speaker 1: before about setting short timers. You don't have to do
22:17
Speaker 1: all your homework right now. You don't even have to
22:20
Speaker 1: finish this particular math worksheet. But how long are you
22:24
Speaker 1: willing to work on this? Or I like to talk
22:26
Speaker 1: to my clients about like finding the sweet spot, like
22:28
Speaker 1: literally how many minutes can your brain focus on something
22:32
Speaker 1: that's kind of boring or that you don't want to do?
22:34
Speaker 1: And they come up with a number. I don't care
22:37
Speaker 1: what the number is. You know it could be seven minutes. Great,
22:41
Speaker 1: let's set a timer for seven minutes and then get
22:44
Speaker 1: to work. Sometimes it's twenty. Some of my kids say,
22:46
Speaker 1: I can do it for twenty minutes. Great, set it
22:48
Speaker 1: and then truly give yourself permission to stop after those
22:52
Speaker 1: seven or twelve or fifteen or twenty minutes. But if
22:55
Speaker 1: your brain is into it and you want to keep going,
22:57
Speaker 1: then do that. Set it again. So those chunks of time,
23:02
Speaker 1: because otherwise it seems endless to a child, especially with
23:04
Speaker 1: a brain with ADHD or other learning differences.
23:07
Speaker 2: Time blindness. Yeah, it can be really difficult. My son
23:10
Speaker 2: used to say it's going to take forever, and sometimes
23:13
Speaker 2: it would literally take ten minutes, I know, but he
23:16
Speaker 2: was so sad on the fact that it was going
23:17
Speaker 2: to ruin his whole entire day. He was all keyed
23:21
Speaker 2: up and resistant. So yeah, I'm like your daughter. I
23:24
Speaker 2: want to just get things over with and check the
23:26
Speaker 2: box and move on. My son is the exact opposite.
23:29
Speaker 2: If he never did any homework, he didn't care what
23:31
Speaker 2: the consequence was. He was fine with that right all
23:34
Speaker 2: the way through graduation. It was sort of a push
23:37
Speaker 2: and pull because it's important to me, but it wasn't
23:39
Speaker 2: important to him, right, And I think that when we
23:43
Speaker 2: break it down we can help with that. When we
23:45
Speaker 2: make the time concrete, like we don't know how long
23:49
Speaker 2: this assignment's going to take, but you're going to do
23:51
Speaker 2: it in ten minute bursts and you can take breaks,
23:56
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel so daunting anymore totally. And I used
23:59
Speaker 2: to like cut up my son's math worksheets, like a
24:01
Speaker 2: whole page of math problems. There's no way he was
24:04
Speaker 2: ever willingly going to dive into that. But if I
24:07
Speaker 2: cut it up and I gave him one or two
24:09
Speaker 2: problems at a time. It was doable. That was something
24:13
Speaker 2: that he felt like he could get started on. But
24:16
Speaker 2: when they're overwhelmed, that task initiation and that executive function
24:22
Speaker 2: can be really really challenging.
24:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great strategy for teachers too, is to
24:27
Speaker 1: cut it in pieces or just cover it up, like
24:30
Speaker 1: on a test. I recommend for teachers too, like just
24:34
Speaker 1: only do this one and then come and show me
24:35
Speaker 1: that it's done, and then we covered up the same
24:37
Speaker 1: and likewise, you could do the cutting up of the
24:39
Speaker 1: worksheet too.
24:40
Speaker 2: Or folding it. Yeah, for my kid, like if I
24:43
Speaker 2: folded it, it was still there. We really had to
24:46
Speaker 2: like cut it, put it away. You can't even look
24:50
Speaker 2: at it right, right, And that's fine, Like it was
24:54
Speaker 2: a few extra minutes for me to do that, to
24:57
Speaker 2: cut it and then to tape it to a piece
24:58
Speaker 2: of paper to turn it in. Big deal, Like it
25:02
Speaker 2: just made and it helped to protect our relationship.
25:07
Speaker 1: I was just going to say that, Yeah, Yeah.
25:09
Speaker 2: Homework battles can be so hard on relationships. And I
25:13
Speaker 2: learned pretty early on that my relationship with my kid
25:16
Speaker 2: mattered more than homework did. It mattered more than grades did.
25:20
Speaker 2: Just that and his mental health, and so we worked
25:23
Speaker 2: around it. But a lot of the ways that we
25:25
Speaker 2: worked around it was by figuring out how to support
25:27
Speaker 2: those executive function challenges, because then it felt doable. If
25:32
Speaker 2: we don't support those challenges, right, we can't expect them
25:37
Speaker 2: to feel like they can do things and get them done.
25:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. That brings us back to what you were saying earlier,
25:43
Speaker 1: is that we do often expect kids to know how
25:46
Speaker 1: to do these things, but we don't always teach it. Right.
25:50
Speaker 1: So what you were doing for him, which is so
25:52
Speaker 1: valuable in his for his whole life from now until forever,
25:56
Speaker 1: is teaching him that there are ways to make it
25:59
Speaker 1: easier for his brain, right, and here are some strategies
26:03
Speaker 1: to get started. Maybe he doesn't need the cutting of
26:05
Speaker 1: the worksheets anymore, but little baby steps, you know, chunking.
26:09
Speaker 1: In the executive functional world, we call this chunking. But like, yeah,
26:13
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing, so in a task in his adulthood,
26:16
Speaker 1: he can do that similar type of thing. Yeah, maybe
26:19
Speaker 1: it doesn't look exactly the same as the cutting, but yeah,
26:22
Speaker 1: I just think that we're teaching and scaffolding all the
26:25
Speaker 1: things that we're doing for our kids. It's so important
26:28
Speaker 1: for life.
26:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going to take those things into adulthood. And
26:32
Speaker 2: I always talk to parents about setting up strategies and
26:35
Speaker 2: supports that you can take yourself out of and they
26:38
Speaker 2: will still work. So instead of me verbally prompting every
26:43
Speaker 2: step of a process, because I can never remove myself
26:46
Speaker 2: from that, how do we prompt where I don't have
26:51
Speaker 2: to be a part of it, And maybe to start
26:53
Speaker 2: out with I do have to remind them to use
26:55
Speaker 2: the prompts, right, like I still have to support it.
26:58
Speaker 2: But someday I can get out of the middle of
27:01
Speaker 2: that process and they can use that successfully. I think
27:04
Speaker 2: that's really important because we do just I think automatically,
27:08
Speaker 2: instinctially we jump in and try to, you know, keep
27:11
Speaker 2: things on task and on timeline, and then that becomes
27:15
Speaker 2: our role and it's not helpful for them long term,
27:19
Speaker 2: but it's okay for now. Like you just said something
27:21
Speaker 2: that really struck a chord, which was that you know,
27:25
Speaker 2: maybe he doesn't need you to cut the paper anymore, Like,
27:28
Speaker 2: don't resist something, but because you think that it's going
27:31
Speaker 2: to keep your kid stuck there, So don't resist cutting
27:36
Speaker 2: the math workshet because you think that forever more, you're
27:39
Speaker 2: going to have to cut the math worksheet, And why
27:40
Speaker 2: would you cut a teenager's math worksheet or something like that,
27:44
Speaker 2: Like it's better to say, Okay, I'm doing this for now,
27:48
Speaker 2: but it's not forever.
27:50
Speaker 1: I Mean, the thing that I think about in terms
27:52
Speaker 1: of adulting is that that's the that's the thing I
27:54
Speaker 1: think is so important about executive function. We've maybe even
27:57
Speaker 1: said it already in this episode, but that it's a
28:00
Speaker 1: life thing. It's not just school skills, and it's not
28:03
Speaker 1: just like managing your legos on the floor, and it's
28:06
Speaker 1: not just brushing your teeth. It is a life thing,
28:09
Speaker 1: and it's a quality of life thing. Like we want
28:11
Speaker 1: our kids to grow into adults who have quality of life,
28:15
Speaker 1: who can manage what they need to manage and be happy,
28:18
Speaker 1: successful people.
28:19
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course we want to create
28:23
Speaker 2: the greatest quality of life for our kids we can,
28:25
Speaker 2: and like that's what most of us, that's the overarching
28:29
Speaker 2: goal as a parent, And so yeah, we just need
28:33
Speaker 2: to help them in areas where they have some weakness.
28:35
Speaker 2: We all have some weakness, and it's totally doable, and
28:39
Speaker 2: you've helped us to see that with a few strategies.
28:42
Speaker 2: Where can people find you online to learn more from
28:45
Speaker 2: you to potentially work with you?
28:46
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, thanks. My website is just my name, so
28:49
Speaker 1: Carriebonnett dot com. There's lots of free resources there other
28:53
Speaker 1: podcast episodes I've been on and you can learn all
28:56
Speaker 1: about the work that I do there. Just my name
28:58
Speaker 1: Carrie Bonnett too, so I.
29:00
Speaker 2: Will have it linked up. Yeah in the show notes
29:03
Speaker 2: for this episode, and they're at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot
29:07
Speaker 2: com slash two ninety six for episode two hundred and
29:11
Speaker 2: ninety six. Thank you so much for being here, Carrie.
29:14
Speaker 2: Your energy is just lovely. I've had such a great
29:17
Speaker 2: conversation with you, and I can imagine how wonderful it
29:22
Speaker 2: is for kids and adults to work with you. So
29:25
Speaker 2: I really appreciate the work that you're doing.
29:27
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. It's great
29:29
Speaker 1: talking to you.
29:30
Speaker 2: I will see everybody on the next episode. Take good care.
29:34
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If
29:38
Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't
29:41
Speaker 2: forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching
29:45
Speaker 2: at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at the behavior,
29:49
Speaker 2: revolution dot com