Latest / More Than Before / Farm Strong to Leader Strong w/ Mike Harbour (Faith + Grit)

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Farm Strong to Leader Strong w/ Mike Harbour (Faith + Grit) · More Than Before

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Coming up on more than before. More important than purpose is
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values. What are your values?
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What do you stand on? Purpose, Excellence, Action,
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Ignite, Dr. Deliver. That's my 6 values.
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Hey everyone, welcome back. What if the greatest leadership
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lessons don't come from a classroom or boardrooms?
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What if it's from a grandmother's belief, the
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discipline of military service, the everyday moments of being a
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husband and a father? My guest today has lived out
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these lessons, tested through challenges, refined by faith,
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and proven in decades of helping thousands of leaders help to
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grow their leadership. He's the founder of Harbor
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Resources, host of the Lead Up podcast, and the author of Quit
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Losing Talent, the Expanded. But more importantly than any
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other title, he's a father, a husband and a transformational
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coach with a story that's going to help you and inspire you to
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become more than before today. Bike Harbor.
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It's great to have you on the show.
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It's such an honor, my friend. Great to be here, Nathan.
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Thanks for the invite. Looking forward to sharing with
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you and your listeners. You grew up in Malvern, AR,
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correct? Yeah, a little town, yes, you
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know, right around between 9010 thousand people.
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Small, small southern town in Arkansas.
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Malvern, Malvern. You got to have that aisle,
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Malvern. That's right.
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That's right. So you grew up on a farm.
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What was what was early childhood like for you?
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I know as a as I've heard you describe, it was a pretty
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tumultuous time in your life. Yeah, when I say farm, you know,
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some people would laugh. It was, it was 6 acres, but it
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was a farm. My dad, and still to this day,
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he likes to grow his own food. And so we, we had a huge garden,
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about an acre of that six acres was a garden.
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And we had all, you know, any kind of animal you can think of.
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We raised turkeys and ducks and rabbits and chickens and horses
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and cows and pigs and dogs. We had it all, man.
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And so basically I was farm labor as as a kid growing up,
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especially during the summer. You know, it was a small Old
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Town outside of Malvern, actually.
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But you know, the, the, the real story is, yeah, I grew up in a
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home where, you know, I often say my, there's an old saying
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those two are like all in water. My parents were like firing
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gasoline, man. They were combustible.
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It was violent, you know, almost on a daily basis in our home.
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Lots of physical abuse, mental emotional abuse in that home.
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And and so that was kind of the, the family secret, so to speak,
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wasn't really a secret because everybody knew it, but it was
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the the secret that everybody tried to keep for sure.
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And you were the middle child of of three, correct?
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But what? What?
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What was it like growing up with two sisters on opposite sides of
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you? Yeah, look, it was, it was kind
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of a challenge. My older sister, she's two years
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older than me, found out when she was 12, I was 10, that, you
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know, she, she was not my dad's daughter.
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You know, that was kind of a, you know, a new, a new awakening
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in our home. We didn't, we didn't know that
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until we were older. But my mom decided that, you
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know, my sister needed to know her real dad, even though my dad
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had adopted her and, you know, really been her, been her father
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and she was, she was mean. She was tough.
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She was tougher than me. And then I had a younger sister,
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four years, four years younger. So being in between, between
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those two, they were both tough. You know, I, I always say I was
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tough and I did a lot of fighting outside the home, but I
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got beat up quite a bit at home by my sisters because they were,
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they, you know, they were, they were like tag team wrestlers,
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man. They were, they would Take Me
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Out. So, but yeah, we, you know, kind
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of kind of rough relationships. I lost my younger sister back in
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21 and she ended up dying of cancer, but she battled, she
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battled drug abuse, man, for about 10 years before that.
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So it was, you know, tough life for her as well.
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And and but, you know, we had some great memories, Great
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memories, too. Yeah.
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What, what were you like as a child?
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Like what what, what inspired you?
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What did you inspire to become as a kid?
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I know that you love sports, sports where it was a huge thing
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for you, but what what was your temperament growing up?
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Yeah, man, great question. I don't know that I was inspired
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to do anything but get away from home as soon as I could.
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I love, you know, obviously I grew up playing baseball, man.
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I started playing baseball when I was nine years old and Little
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League and, and fortunately was a was a pretty good athlete,
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played football through high school, you know, lucky enough
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to play baseball through college.
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So, you know, I, I thrived on the sports field because I, you
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know, I was performance based, right?
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You just, you perform, you get accolades, you do something
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good, people celebrate you, those kind of things.
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So learn to do that a lot. You know, that that can be a
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challenge as you get older, certainly, but also, you know,
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growing up in a, in a, you know, very violent, abusive home, you
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know, you grow up with a lot of anger as well.
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So, you know, probably probably carried a lot of anger with me.
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Not probably did carry a lot of anger with me through throughout
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my life. You know, probably till I was in
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my early 30s till till my son was born, really.
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He was born when I was late 30s, almost 31.
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And, you know, that really kind of began to change my life a
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little bit. I, you know, gave myself to
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Christ when I was 34 years old. And that certainly was a
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transformational event in my life where life really kind of
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began to get better and I started to figure things out.
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Still had a lot of work to do to overcome some of those past
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challenges, but have done the work.
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And I'm grateful for it, man. Let me ask you this because I
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think this is always fascinating, especially people
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who are working with leaders, people who are educators, not in
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the sense of educating from high school or collegiate level, but
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people who are truly educating people about the world, about
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life, of how to live and show up and and give their best.
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I'm curious, what kind of student were you in school?
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Were you? Were you a straight A student?
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Were you? Oh man, I can't believe I
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passed. What kind of student were?
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You yeah, so you know, you remember the school annuals they
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had least or most likely to succeed most popular while I was
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on the Backpage that most likely to fail, right or least likely
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to succeed. I was I was a look man.
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I was I probably had like a 2.01 GPA when I graduated high
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school. I made an 11 on the ACT the
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first time I took it. You know, I highly recommend to
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not to go to college would fell out, but you know, because I'm
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driven, I'm goal oriented. I wanted to play baseball.
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That's what I did. You know, I went to college and
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struggled really struggle through college, man, I
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graduated, thank God, but it you know, it took me a while.
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I actually went to college for four years, Nathan and left
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without a degree. I joined the Army at 22, after
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four years of college and no real direction still in my life.
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Not enough. I had enough hours to graduate,
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but not enough hours to graduate with a degree in any field
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because I just, I kind of dabbled my way through school,
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right, and made some good grades here.
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When I surrounded myself, Here's the interesting thing.
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When I surrounded myself with people that were better than me,
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I made better grades. When I surrounded myself with
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it, with people that were like me or, or, you know, less than
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average, like me, I made I made bad grades.
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So, you know, there, there's a say we become like the five
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people we surround yourself like right now.
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And I learned, I didn't really learn that lesson there, but it
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was interesting. The guys that I hung out with
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that made great grades on my baseball team.
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When I was doing that, I studied more and made better grades.
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But I but I wanted to have fun, right?
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I didn't, I don't, I'm a I'm a rebellious spirit.
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I don't like rules. I like to make my own way very
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independent and, and part of that's from growing up, right?
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I kind of raised myself from a, you know, from the time I was 12
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when my parents finally split up, you know, so very
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independent. Maybe that's why I'm
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self-employed. Don't work for anybody else now.
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I joined the Army for six years, by the way.
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I had to follow a lot of rules there, but probably violated as
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many of them as I could. Or, you know, skirted.
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Skirted the edge, certainly. And if I'm not mistaken, you at
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one point you, you traded your, your, your baseball, collegiate
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baseball career for a fraternity, didn't you?
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Yeah, I mean, I wanted, like I said, I wanted to have fun.
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The the coach I went to play baseball for, I was lucky, man.
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I played for a guy named Mike Marshall.
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He's dead now, but he won the Cy Young Award in the majors.
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And so I played college baseball for him and he was fantastic to
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play for. But he left.
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And so I I decided it was time to get serious about my
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education. I joined a fraternity at that
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point. And you know, that was the
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beginning of the end, Nathan. Certainly, you know, once I
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realized I wasn't going to make it to the next level in
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baseball, you know, I, I needed to try to get serious about
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life, but I, so I was thinking right, if I join this
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fraternity, I'll get to know people.
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But really it man, it's just a big drinking club.
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All the IT was made, I played baseball, but the, the
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fraternity I joined was made-up mostly the football players and
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it was just a big drinking club more than anything.
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So didn't help me. Certainly it's not the reason I,
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I didn't flunk out of school. I just, you know, if at the end
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of four years, man, it was time, I wasn't, I wasn't even closer
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to graduating. And it was just like, I got to
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get serious. And it really looked like the
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only path for me to do that was to join the military.
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I always love to hear the people that have had the most influence
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and shaping our lives. And I know your grandmother was
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a huge influence on you, an incredible woman who who truly
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was someone of grit, someone who really did have a perseverance
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about her. Why?
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Why was she? Or maybe even what are some
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memories that you have of your grandmother of of some of the
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lessons that she taught you early on or maybe even later on
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that have just truly stuck with you throughout the years that
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have been lessons that you really live your life by?
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She was the first real leader in my life.
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She was a 8th grade educated woman.
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She had to drop out of, of school to help take care of her
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family during the depression, right.
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I mean, that's what, that's what the women did back then.
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They school wasn't, was important for, for women back
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then. And, and so she dropped out and
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helped take care of her family. You know, you can go back.
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She died in 1998. Literally, you know, I, I got a
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home from the military in October of 1998.
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She passed away in November of 98.
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So about, you know, just about a month after I got home.
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Luckily I was home. It was great to, to be there
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with her, you know, her last day or last breath, but you know,
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you, you can go back to my hometown today and, and people
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still talk about my grandmother, right?
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She was self-employed. Everybody knew her.
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She was the most friendly person.
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She made people feel better. She was an encourager.
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She believed in me like no other person ever has believed in me
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other than my wife. And you know, she, she was one
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that was always encouraging me. I, she wanted, she dressed me
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nice. You know, my parents had no
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money, but my grandmother, she would try to get me some nice
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clothes. She wanted me to dress, you
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know, in a suit and tie. I don't have a suit and tie on
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the day. I wore one last week, though,
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Nathan. But she's a big reason to that,
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right? She wanted me to look good.
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She wanted me to be, she really wanted me to be in the corporate
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world, which is what I do a lot of today in, in my leadership
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development work. But she was the one that just
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kept encouraging me, right? Don't ever quit, don't ever give
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up. And that was her, it's her
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philosophy in life. She had to, she had to have that
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grit. She had to keep going.
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She was the leader of the family.
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You know, when she passed away, the kind of family grew apart
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and, and dispersed a little bit. So but, but she because of her
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grit, her toughness, she knew the the dysfunction that I grew
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up in, but she was just always challenged me.
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You're going to be something great.
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You're going to be good. You're going to, you know, she,
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she also probably should have been tougher on me, right?
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She let me get away with a lot of things I shouldn't have
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gotten away with. But she loved me deeply, man.
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And I still think about her. I've got a picture just of her
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over on my wall, man, here in my office.
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So, you know, I think about her just about every day.
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Our grandmothers truly do have a huge impact on us.
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And it's funny because as I was, I was, you know, reading more
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about you and learning more about you.
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I, I remember something that you had said that, you know, you
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have some of your grandmother's recipes and they just don't
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taste the same that she, that she must have left out some of
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the ingredients on her on her list.
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And you know, as I was thinking about that, I, I, it kind of
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brought me back to my grandmother and the thing,
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things that she would do, she would, she would always invite
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people over to the house and, and we'd have these get
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togethers, these potlucks that people would just bring their
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food. And she, she was very similar to
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what your grandmother was. And the fact that she was just
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the glue, she was the glue that held things together.
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She just brought people together.
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And so it's, it's truly incredible what she was in your
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life as you were going through high school, not into college.
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We're kind of on this track here.
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And then you go into your military career.
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What, what was it that drew you into the military?
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Like why? Why did you decide to go in to
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the Army? Yeah, probably like a lot of
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people, Nathan. I, I, I, I wasn't necessarily
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joining the military to serve my country.
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I was really joining the military to get away from a life
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that was leading nowhere, right. I, I kind of thought, man, if I,
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if I can get it, if I just join the military, I can get away
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from this. I was drinking way too much,
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man. I was, I was drinking every day.
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That was a part of my life. It's the way I grew up.
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It was, you know, it was just taught from an early age right
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in in my home. I had zero direction, goals,
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ambition at that time. I mean, I wanted more, but I
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didn't know how to get there because I hadn't hadn't been
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around anybody that really modeled that to me.
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My, my, my dad. I love him.
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He just, you know, he's just not really go directed, not
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ambitious. Do you know, just enough to get
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by type of of mentality. And I wanted more and I thought,
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OK, maybe the military is that path for me.
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It was a way to get away from. I was really just kind of
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running. I wasn't running to something,
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you know? Now I teach people to run to
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something, don't run away from something.
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I was really running away from the life that I felt like wasn't
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going anywhere. That was really my draw to the
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military, man. What were some of those lessons
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early on when you were getting into the military, going through
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boot camp that maybe maybe challenge the status quo of who
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you were? And you realize that, OK, I'm
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I'm going to have to actually do more.
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I'm going to have to actually become more to get through this
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because, you know, watching the movies and all those things, it
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doesn't do it justice. Just just how mentally taxing,
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how physically taxing it really is to go through something like
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that. What what were some of the
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lessons that you learned throughout your boot camp time?
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But then I'm also curious because you actually were
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deployed, if I, if I remember correctly, what, what, what was
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deployment like for you? What were some of those lessons
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in deployment that you learned, you know, about leadership and
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about service? Because I think that's that's a
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huge place of servant leadership where you learn to serve others.
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Yeah. So first of all, I never, I
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never did get deployed. I never served in war.
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So, you know, I'm grateful for that, man.
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I don't, I don't, I don't regret that at all.
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But you know, I laugh. I started laughing.
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You talk about the lessons learned in boot camp.
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Boot camp was easy for me, man. I, I, I still laugh about it
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because of, of how number one I was, I was in, I was in good
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shape. I was always an athlete.
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I grew up on a farm, right? I was tough, I was strong.
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I grew up in a, in a very physically violent, abusive
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home, you know, and, and then the fraternity, I was in the
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hazing and that attorney was worse than anything.
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I went through a boot camp. I mean, that's not honest to
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God's truth, man. I, I was more scared at, at, at
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during the hazing of, of, you know, my fraternity than I was
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really at boot camp. And then also when you're at
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boot camp, there are people that come from all walks of life and
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many of them had never gotten off the couch, man.
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They were not. So I excelled, man.
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I was, you know, I was one that number one, that's how I've
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always been. I've always wanted to be the
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best. I want to beat you.
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Not not necessarily want to beat you.
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I just want to be better than you.
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Nathan, I you know, it's a drive an internal driver that I have
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right. But and so and then I
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immediately, you know, I was fairly early at boot camp
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recognized as a leader. I'm kind of loud.
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I wasn't necessarily a leader back then, but in the Army, loud
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and driven makes you a leader. So that worked pretty well for
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me there. And so I, you know, boot camp
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was, was pretty easy, man. It was, I'm not going to say it
16:53
was a joke. There were some things that,
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that were tough. You know, when you're, when
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you're humping a rock with 5060 lbs on your back and it's, you
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know, 100° outside, there's nothing easy about that.
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You got to dig deep, man. And, and, you know, from a
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mental perspective, so I certainly, I started learning
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more about, you know, kind of the mental resilience you have
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to have the grit, those kind of things.
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But my, my childhood really helped me with all that, man,
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Cuz I mean, I worked hard growing up, man.
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I was, I was lifting bells of hay at 10 years old, you know,
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and, and then my dad had a business where, you know, what,
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he, he, he sold paint and carpet and those kind of, so I'm
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lifting heavy rolls of carpet and furniture to help clean out
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houses so they can put new flooring in.
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So I was never a weight lifter until later in life when I, when
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I got in the Army, but I went lifted and, and done some
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physically tough things a lot in my life.
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So the military boot camp was pretty easy.
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Now, you know, later, a few years after I was in the
17:51
military, I went to this school called air assault school,
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repelling out of helicopters, doing those kind of things.
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I was a medic. That was a two week school,
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Nathan, that was harder than the 8 weeks of boot camp.
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Really. They tried to kill us at that
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two week school. A lot of fun.
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I, I survived it. But you know, it's one of those
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things, the military, when you go to these schools like that,
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they're really trying to weed out the week you, you hear a lot
18:11
about. I just interviewed a Navy, a
18:13
former Navy SEAL on my podcast here a week or so ago.
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And, you know, he's his class started with like 180 people.
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And by the time he graduated, there were 31 that made it
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right. The military, these schools are
18:24
really about weaning out the weak, the mentally weak.
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The body can absolutely do just about anything.
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But can the mind overcome, you know, the fear, the pain, the
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doubt, all those those types of things.
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So, you know, the military was good for me in that regard.
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I had an easy job. I was a medic, but I worked in
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the hospital my entire, you know, five years of, of active
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duty. I, I did six years active duty
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1, you know, one year was all school and, and then the next
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five years was working in a hospital and, and, you know,
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doing some cool things, but I had some great leaders in the,
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in the, that's really I, you know, I tell everybody Nathan,
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I, I never read a book. I graduated high school.
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I went to four years of college, never read a book before I
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joined the Army. And the first book I was given
19:08
by a leader who said, Mike, he got he, this is his words.
19:11
I kind of remember it like it was yesterday.
19:12
He said, Mike, you've got a lot of potential, but you got to
19:15
learn to harness that potential. You're, you're, you're, you've
19:17
got some blind spots in a lot of areas.
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And he gave me a book called 7 Habits of Highly Effective
19:22
People, which is a classic. It was kind of written back then
19:25
and that was really the first book I read and it kind of shot
19:29
me into this personal growth journey.
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And then I read my first John Maxwell book when I was 23 years
19:33
old, developing the leader within you.
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So that kind of started a journey for me, Nathan, of
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becoming a learner, learning about self and in beginning this
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journey of where I am, you know, some 30 years later, still in
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this, you know, I still call myself a personal growth junk.
19:48
I'm still trying to learn and grow and be a better human first
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and a better leader second. Yeah, I love, I love the, I love
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the farm. Strong piece of, you know, the
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military. Yeah, it was, it was, it was
20:01
tough. But, you know, really home life
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and growing up on a farm that that really does toughen you up
20:07
quite a bit. I love the journey of personal
20:10
growth. You know, one of the things,
20:11
and, and I know that you're familiar with this too, is as
20:14
you're growing, as you're developing, I think we all at
20:16
some point kind of run into the behavioral assessments like DISC
20:21
or Myers Briggs and those kinds of things.
20:23
And one of the most important things about going through those
20:26
assessments is not just learning it so you can identify other
20:29
people, it's also learning it to identify things inside of you.
20:33
And, you know, there was a there was a mentor of mine in disc
20:36
that said when strengths are pushed to their extremes, they
20:39
become weaknesses. And one of your strengths truly
20:43
is, you know, I could be loud, I can be outspoken.
20:47
I can be the domineering person, say, you know, I can grab hands
20:50
and say, come with me if you want to live.
20:54
But at the same time, there is there is a place where that can
20:57
become too much and it can actually hurt us.
21:02
You're you're pretty driven guy. How has how has that personality
21:08
style hindered you at times? But also how has that really
21:11
opened up doors? Because I think sometimes we
21:13
can, we can kind of dog on people and say, well, you know,
21:16
this person, I'm a very driven person.
21:18
I have people that say that I'm I'm intense and that my wife
21:22
constantly says that I'm yelling all the time.
21:24
I'm like, I don't feel like I'm yelling.
21:25
This is my normal, this is how I talk.
21:29
But I'm curious what, what are some of the strengths that have
21:33
come out from being a dominant personality style, direct
21:37
personality style, But how have you had to curtail that and
21:41
learn to kind of refocus that in your life?
21:45
It's a great question, Nathan. I think all your listeners first
21:49
need to understand without, without developing yourself
21:54
awareness, your emotional intelligence, you're always
21:58
going to hit, you're always going to bump your head on the
22:01
lid as Maxwell teaches, right? You're, you're going to be
22:04
capped at your ability and your capacity as a leader to grow and
22:10
no matter what role you're in. So I'll start, yes, I'm a Heidi
22:13
on disk. I've taken the disk 100 times in
22:17
my life, probably. I'm always AD man and and it's
22:20
very high and it's a great strength for me.
22:25
When you're when you grow up the way I grew up, you know, you're
22:29
very driven to do something different, be better.
22:34
You know, for me, I'm never going to be like that, right?
22:37
So there's a drive behind that where that becomes a weaknesses.
22:41
You get married to someone who's a complete opposite of you, who,
22:44
you know, wears their feelings on their sleeve.
22:46
I have no feelings, Nathan. I say that jokingly today.
22:50
I do. But you know, early in my life,
22:52
early in my marriage, I had no feeling.
22:53
What are you whining about? What are you crying about?
22:55
You know, I'm just saying, we got to, we got to manage the
22:57
checkbook. We got about you got to quit.
22:59
You know, all of these things, right?
23:00
Just driving. And it always felt like a
23:02
directive in an order. So, so that strength to become
23:05
better, to make a better life for myself, to make a better
23:08
life for my wife. It's a great strength because
23:12
I'm never going to quit. I'm I'm, I'm going to fail a
23:14
lot. And I certainly have, but I'm
23:16
never going to quit, right? I may, I may cry for 24 hours,
23:19
but then I'm back up. I'm after it again.
23:21
OK, let's, let's quit whining. Let's make something happen.
23:23
But where it becomes a weakness is, you know, just beating
23:26
people up verbally, right? And mean, what are you wanting
23:29
about toughing up? You need to toughen up.
23:31
Let's go, man. Let's I, you know, I'm tired of
23:33
waiting on you. And so as a leader, if you're
23:36
not aware of that, you know, for me, I often say, man, I've, I've
23:39
blown people up, you know, I leave them.
23:41
John Maxwell, one of the greatest lessons I've, I've,
23:43
I've learned from John. He said, you know, if you, if
23:45
you climb a mountain and you get to the top and you're all alone,
23:48
you're simply a hiker. You're not a, you're, you're not
23:50
a leader, right? You, you went by yourself.
23:52
And so I had to learn that lesson, man.
23:54
And, and certainly for me, I have two kids.
23:56
They're they're adults now. I think if you met my kids and
23:59
you talk to anybody that know them, they would say Mike Harbor
24:02
was a great leader in his home. And it's because I had to
24:05
mellow, man. Luckily you have to mellow.
24:07
But also did the work of getting to know self, getting to
24:10
understand, you know, understand myself enough to say there's
24:14
times to be driven, but there's times to, you know, be relaxed,
24:18
to be an educator, to be a teacher, to be a lover, all of
24:21
those things to to to attach yourself to your kids emotions
24:24
to help them develop the way they need to develop.
24:27
Now I'm sure I messed up in a lot of ways and they got their
24:29
own challenges, but you know where where that driven
24:33
personality helps you is that this never quit, never die
24:37
attitude that you're going to get through as well.
24:41
I'm Nathan. I'm scared to death of heights.
24:44
I said I rappelled out of helicopters, right?
24:45
I'm still scared to death of heights.
24:47
I love to hike. I go hiking.
24:49
I was in Uray, Colorado, just, you know, back in April hiking
24:52
this trail. And you know, I love to hike.
24:54
I want to, I tell people I like to go to Colorado and get high,
24:57
not the way they get high out there, but I like to get, you
24:59
know, climbed to the top of a mountain so I can see as far as
25:02
I can. But I'm on this trail, man, and
25:03
it's literally the width of my foot, maybe 2 feet wide.
25:07
And on on one side of me, it's, you know, it's 1000 feet to the
25:10
bottom and scared to death of heights.
25:13
But I'm so driven to do this that I can drive myself through
25:16
that fear, right. And how that helps in
25:19
businessman is, you know, look, I've been I've been
25:22
self-employed since 2006. Now I've been on the the verge
25:26
of bankruptcy many times in this in the last 19 years.
25:29
But that drive, you know, pick up the phone and make another
25:31
phone call. It also helps you in these
25:34
meetings. When I'm in a meeting with a
25:35
board or, you know, an executive team or CEO, it's my confidence
25:39
that says, hey, man, you've got these challenges.
25:41
I can help you get through them, right?
25:43
Because I have that confidence in that drive.
25:46
And a lot of people are attracted to that, by the way.
25:48
But you got to do it from a place of humility, which is
25:51
something that I've, I've learned to develop and grow and
25:54
be humble in the gifts that God's given me.
25:56
He wired me a certain way, but they're gifts, but not harnessed
26:01
the right way, which is what that first leader was selling,
26:03
telling me in the Army, man, you need to learn to harness those
26:05
those strengths you have in the right way so you can be a great
26:08
leader. And I'm still working on that
26:09
night. I'm 55, I'm still working on
26:11
harnessing those things. But now, as you mentioned, with
26:14
my son and my business, right, not, not I, I've got a I'm
26:18
teaching him how to, to drive and push.
26:20
He's wired very similar to me. He's got a lot better relational
26:24
skill. I have, I have pretty much 0I in
26:27
my, you know, in my disk profile, but he's ADI, which
26:31
which is great. So he's, he's a lot more
26:33
relational, compassionate, caring for other people than
26:36
that. I have naturally, I have to I
26:39
get burned out pretty quick when I got a care for people for too
26:41
long. But but he can stick with a
26:44
longer. So you know, I'm having to learn
26:46
to be a better leader with him in my business too, because
26:49
we're we're trying to do this together and grow this thing
26:52
together. So I don't know if that answered
26:53
your question, but that's. I think it has, I think it's a
26:57
it's a home run to answering that question.
26:58
You know, it's, it's also interesting some of the greatest
27:01
leaders that we see a lot of people see them as the go
27:05
getters, the drivers, the people that are taking people on a
27:08
journey. And while yes, that is true,
27:11
some of the greatest leaders that we know are the greatest
27:13
question askers, the the, the greatest people of trying to
27:19
learn and to constantly hone to become better.
27:22
And it doesn't necessarily mean every single aspect of life, but
27:25
definitely to become better in their craft, to become better at
27:29
what they do. And I'm curious for you, when
27:32
did you know, you said that you really started to love the
27:38
personal growth and development that, you know, self help junkie
27:42
when you got your first book, when did it really start to
27:45
accelerate? And in fact, you know, cuz at a
27:47
certain point, my journey when I really started to accelerate was
27:51
when someone handed me a Maxwell book for the first time is the
27:54
first book I read in a long time that I actually finished.
27:57
I was the type of person that could I, I went through college
28:00
and I'm, I'm surprised I graduated at times cuz I don't
28:03
know if I opened a book. I don't remember opening the
28:05
book to study. It was mostly learning in class.
28:08
And so I'm curious, when did, when did that love for love and
28:13
desire for education really take hold of you that you just said,
28:16
man, I want to learn more so I can become a better leader.
28:21
Yeah, man, you're, you're getting me pretty deep here in,
28:25
in some life. So when I was 23, I started
28:30
reading and studying personal growth, right?
28:32
I was reading every book I could get my hands on because I wanted
28:36
to be liked and respected as a, as a leader, right?
28:40
I wanted to be a leader or, but, but the reality is, is I was, I
28:47
was simply reading the books to fill my head with knowledge.
28:51
And so really I was just doing leadership.
28:54
There's a difference in being a leader and doing leadership.
28:58
So I'm a doer, you know, as AD, as a driver, I'm a doer.
29:02
So really it wasn't that I really wanted to be a leader,
29:05
Nathan. I wanted to do leadership.
29:07
I saw, I probably saw leadership more as a position than as a
29:12
profession like I do today, right?
29:15
And so I was like, OK, I need to learn this so I can do this to
29:17
people. I need to learn this so I can do
29:19
this better. So it's more about doing right.
29:22
It was I, I was very driven to just learn and do, learn and do,
29:26
learn and do. And then, you know, when I was,
29:29
I got out of the, I got out of active duty in 1998.
29:34
And when I got in the Army, I lost, you know, you, you hear
29:37
professional athletes talk about this, look, they lose the
29:38
brotherhood of the locker room, right?
29:40
I lost the kind of the brotherhood of, of the military.
29:43
And I didn't have friends like I'm, I'm not, I wasn't really
29:47
close to anybody that I grew. I didn't, I didn't, I had a best
29:51
friend growing up. He, he, you know, just passed
29:54
away last year, but he and I grew apart when I joined the
29:58
Army and so hadn't really talked to him.
30:00
I didn't really have any super close friends, not close to my
30:03
family. So when I, when I came back home
30:06
to, to Arkansas and I was looking for a place and back
30:10
then we have these things called newspapers, you know, in 1999,
30:14
Nathan. And so I'm reading the newspaper
30:16
and all, I all, I actually read back the end of the newspaper
30:19
was the sports page. And there was this ad in the, in
30:22
the newspaper for men's fraternity.
30:24
I'm like, yes, a fraternity for men, right?
30:27
I told you my experience about fraternity later, but you know,
30:30
this, this men's fraternity, I went to check it out.
30:33
It was at a church. They were, they were meeting at
30:36
six. AMI had never really been a
30:37
churchgoer. I, I tried to run from, you
30:40
know, church and God as much as fast as possible, but I got in
30:44
the circle of men, man, there were 1000 men showing up at 6:00
30:47
AM every Wednesday morning. And there was this preacher up
30:50
there, you know, teaching his name's Robert Lewis, still love
30:54
Robert today. He started this, you know, part
30:56
of this whole men's movement, this movement called men's
30:58
fraternity, still study his stuff.
31:00
But you know, even then I wasn't a Christian, right?
31:03
I was 29. Let notice I said I didn't get
31:05
my life to Christ till I was 34 because I'm like, I'm not giving
31:08
up my freedom, right? I don't want to do that.
31:10
Like I don't need, I don't need all that.
31:12
But I was still trying to learn. I was trying to learn, but I
31:15
wasn't trying to be a leader. And then, you know, I'm 34, my
31:21
son's, you know, 3-4 years old, my daughter's, you know, on the
31:26
way. My marriage is not really in a
31:29
great place. I'm in a job that I don't really
31:34
like. And, you know, here I am, man.
31:38
I'm, I'm, I'm reading the books, I'm doing the stuff, but I'm not
31:43
really where I want to be, if all that makes sense, right.
31:48
And, and so, you know, I finally just said, OK, I, I, I got to
31:51
change something. I need to start, I need to stop
31:54
just being like the smartest person in the room and start
31:57
being the guy that lives this stuff out.
32:01
I gave my life to Christ when I was 34.
32:03
Things kind of changed for me, you know, surrendered some of
32:07
that control. I still have a lot of it, you
32:10
know, still have a lot of control issues, Nathan, but it
32:13
was, you know, it's kind of 34. Look, I'm, I'm 55 S, you know,
32:16
21 years ago. I'm still growing in that.
32:18
But you know, it's really, I had to, I had to make that
32:21
transformation from doing which I'm very good at.
32:24
You give me something to do, I'm going to get it done.
32:26
I'm going to get it done fast. I'm going to get it done well.
32:30
But at the end of the day, leadership is more about our
32:32
being and who we are and what flows out of us, right, versus
32:36
then versus what we can do. And, you know, again, I joined
32:40
the John Maxwell team in 2011, which is where I really started
32:43
learning a lot more about just, you know, watching John, I mean,
32:48
I'd read his books, but once you get around John, you really see,
32:50
OK, he's not just an author that writes these books.
32:52
He's, he's living these things out.
32:54
And I was always attracted to this values based leadership
32:57
that John taught. I mean, I've, I've read hundreds
33:01
of books, but I still love just the, the, the foundation that
33:04
John writes from, from a values base.
33:07
And, you know, so again, it, it was really just, I had to make
33:11
that transition from doing things and I'm still a very good
33:15
doer. But you know, I had to create
33:18
real purpose in my life. I had to create real solid
33:20
values in my life and lead from that place, not from I got to
33:24
get this done. OK, how am I going to get it
33:26
done? How am I going to show up as a
33:27
leader? How am I going to communicate
33:28
with others? How am I going to treat others
33:30
as we move in that direction toward that goal?
33:34
It's really powerful in and thank you for just sharing that.
33:38
You know, there's, there's so many people.
33:39
I think that we, we kind of put up the walls and we like to keep
33:43
everyone out and we, we like to keep everything pristine from
33:46
the outside by the inside. There's always stuff going on.
33:49
You know, I, I like to say to my clients and, and different
33:52
people, transparent lives are transformed lives, but people
33:56
that can be transparent with other people, not only can they
33:59
transform their own lives to say, this is where I am, this is
34:01
where I need to grow, but this is also how I can help other
34:04
people that have gone through this or that might be in this
34:07
currently. I'm curious, you know, you and
34:10
Constance have been married for gosh, they're over 33 years and
34:16
I'm curious when was the turning point within your marriage to
34:19
truly become fruitful because you guys are, you guys are truly
34:23
amazing together today. Like, but you know, there, there
34:27
are hard times in marriage. I'm, I'm curious, what was, what
34:30
was the turning point for you in your marriage where you really
34:34
started to become the man that you really desired to be as a
34:38
husband? Yeah, you probably have to ask
34:42
her that. I think we're still.
34:43
I think I'm still she. She's still in it.
34:46
He's still turning, you know. She'll come in with the
34:48
newspaper. Yeah, look, I think, you know,
34:54
we're we're I look, I am, I'm having a change now.
34:57
We're we're empty nesters as of May of this year, right.
35:00
So just a few short months ago, my son got married in March, my
35:04
daughter moved out in May. So we're having to learn how to,
35:09
you know, be married in a different way today because when
35:13
you have kids, man, it's easy. You, there's a purpose there,
35:15
there. And she's for me, my purpose,
35:17
like go, go make money so we can feed our family, right?
35:20
And her purpose was take care of our kids.
35:23
And we, we did that well together and we, we LED well
35:25
together. But it, you know, it really was
35:28
our kids. She grew up in some dysfunction
35:32
as well. And for us it was really about
35:34
how can we provide a better, safer foundation for our kids,
35:40
right? So we built our, our marriage
35:42
around that. We, we certainly got involved in
35:48
a great church early in our kids lives, not not early in our
35:52
marriage, but early in our kids lives and kind of kept them
35:56
involved as much as possible in that.
35:58
And, and they're still, my son does men's ministry with me
36:02
today, man. I mean, you talk about, you want
36:04
to talk about fruit, dude, I, I've been involved in men's
36:06
ministry literally since 1999, as I mentioned, and I'm a, I'm
36:11
a, I'm a teacher in our men's men's program now I'm a, I'm a,
36:15
a small group leader in our men's program.
36:17
And for a few years I tried to get my son to go when he would
36:20
come only when it was my night to speak, but then he would
36:23
leave. But today, man, he's a small
36:24
group leader in our men's ministry group at 24 years old,
36:27
man, it's, you talk about fruit, you, you never know when they're
36:31
going to pay off. And he and I have, you know,
36:33
have done a little, you know, ministry work together, which is
36:36
awesome in that regard. But, you know, I would say
36:40
really the answer to your question, Nathan, is when our
36:42
kids were born is when we really decided, OK, this is we want to
36:46
we want to make sure when we launch our kids, whatever age
36:49
that is, that they're they're solidly rooted in values and in
36:54
love. I mean, we had lots and lots of
36:59
family dinners, breakfast. We ate around the table way more
37:04
than I ever did, right. And still do that when they come
37:06
over, you know, lots of conversations.
37:10
So you know, it, it was, I was probably again, 34 years old
37:16
when I, when I personally started making that change and
37:18
trying to be a better husband and better father and, and still
37:22
I'm, you know, I'm still a work in progress, Nathan.
37:24
I got a lot of, I got a lot of flaws, man.
37:26
I'm still working on but, and, and, and now, as I said, just
37:31
this year, I'm having to adapt and become a more attentive
37:36
husband to, to a mother who her whole life was wrapped around
37:40
her kids and nurturing them. And now they're not here.
37:42
So, you know, I'm having to make another shift and another.
37:46
I'm having to raise a lid again in a different area of my life.
37:50
There is such a level of intentionality that comes when
37:53
you have kids because you see your kids, you want the best for
37:57
them. You know, mentally, you know, we
38:01
visualize that we know maybe at a certain point when we're
38:04
younger of like, OK, this is how I want to grow my family.
38:07
This is I want to change things. But then when you have your
38:10
kids, it's really different because when you become highly
38:13
intentional, you're always looking for the opportunity to
38:17
mentor. You're always looking for the
38:18
opportunity to pour into their lives.
38:22
I think both of your kids truly have grasped some of the, some
38:27
of the greater lessons that you've, that you've held on to
38:31
throughout your life that you've gained especially of faith.
38:34
I'm, I'm curious, you know, you've taken both of your kids
38:37
hunting, but I'm curious about those times of taking your
38:41
daughter hunting. What were some of the the most
38:44
powerful lessons that you take that you carry from those times
38:49
of going out with your daughter and and going hunting and and
38:53
seeing her for the first time doing something like that?
38:57
Yeah, well, you know, my daughter's never shot anything,
38:59
so she, she never stuck with it long enough to have that
39:02
experience. She, she doesn't like bugs or
39:06
spiders or, you know, getting, you know, it's funny now,
39:11
Nathan, she hated all of that kind of stuff as a kid.
39:14
But you know what she's doing now on weekends?
39:15
She's riding dirt bikes like she, she, it's driving me nuts,
39:20
man. I don't I don't like seeing my
39:21
daughter out there riding dirt bikes and you know, but how she
39:24
could get hurt. But again, at the end of the
39:25
day, I just got to let let go of that.
39:27
But the fun was man, just just, you know, getting on that four
39:31
Wheeler together, going through the woods, teaching her about
39:35
nature, listening to, you know, God in nature, recognizing God's
39:42
greatness in nature. You know, there's a lot of
39:44
lessons that can be taught in the outdoors and if you really
39:47
look for God's creativeness, his spirit, his goodness, it's all
39:54
over, you know, nature. I mean, if you ever look, if you
39:57
ever doubt the reality of the creator man, just go to the
40:00
Rocky Mountains in the US You and and I hike my son and I hike
40:03
to the bottom of the Grand Canyon back in May of 23 and,
40:08
and. You know, when you're at the
40:10
bottom looking up and you got to hike back at you, you understand
40:12
God's great creation. Oh my God, is there an elevator,
40:16
please? You know, we had to hike back
40:17
out of that back out of that thing with, you know, 40 lbs on
40:20
her back. But yeah, I mean, just nature,
40:23
man. And being there with my
40:24
daughter, we still there's, there's memories, there's
40:26
things. She never stuck with it long
40:28
enough to really enjoy it. She don't like getting up early.
40:30
I'm a morning riser, you know, so a lot of a lot of our hunts
40:34
were we're, you know, afternoon hunts and using, using the
40:38
bathroom in the woods is not fun for a female, you know, for
40:41
guys. We love it, man.
40:43
But maybe not really. But yeah, not really.
40:46
But, you know, so there's those things, but just being, being
40:49
able to talk about nature and talk about God's creation and
40:52
connect some of the things they learn in church to, to the real
40:56
life, to real world. And, you know, and even today at
40:59
20 years old, when she has challenges at work, me trying to
41:01
reconnect those lessons back to her that we've learned along the
41:04
way. It really is, it really is so
41:09
key and important for people to reach their kids on, on a, on a
41:13
level like that. Because I think a lot of
41:15
parents, at least for me, I'm always constantly trying to
41:19
figure out how do I, how do I teach my kids this?
41:22
How do I teach them this? And there really is a point
41:25
where you have to allow them to explore, to make their own
41:28
decisions, allow them to fail. You know, you, you talk about
41:33
faith and faith is such a, a huge aspect.
41:36
And there, I, I think there really has been a shift recently
41:39
in, in people coming to faith of, of knowing who God is and
41:44
living out their faith in a different way.
41:46
And I'm curious as as you look back on life and as you continue
41:50
to look forward, how has your faith strengthened you and how
41:57
has your relationship with God changed over the years?
41:59
I know that you talked about, you know, you know, I learned
42:02
about, I learned about Jesus at this point.
42:04
But you know, my, my real walk with him didn't really happen
42:06
until later on down the road. What it What does that look like
42:10
today in your daily practices? In your daily walk?
42:14
Man, fantastic question. Yeah, I think, look, faith is a
42:18
huge component of who I am today.
42:21
I've seen so many miracles in my own life.
42:24
I am a miracle, Nathan. First of all, just being born
42:28
were all miracles, right? But statistically, a kid, a man
42:32
who grew up the way I grew up should be in prison or should
42:37
have a failed marriage, have a lot of fail.
42:39
You're and I have had a lot of failures in life, but there's a
42:44
lot of things like I said, man, I lost a sister.
42:46
She was a drug addict for 10 years.
42:48
Man, I had to my my other sister's really dysfunctional
42:53
somehow, you know, joining the army maybe was, you know,
42:57
getting away right to to change me.
42:58
But just this drive to grow. I don't know.
43:01
I, I feel blessed. You know, when I look back at
43:03
it. I had a a massive truck wreck
43:06
when I was 16 should have killed me.
43:08
I walked away from it. I had a bad four Wheeler wreck
43:10
when I was 17, walked away from it.
43:15
You know, there there's lots of things I've done where I look
43:18
back. Yeah, I look back now.
43:19
It's like, wow, God, Manny, OK, I guess you have something
43:22
bigger and better for me, right. I mean, you can look back at
43:24
those things and say, you know, there there's miracles all along
43:27
the way. And and if you're really
43:30
reflect, you say, OK, then I need if that's if God has
43:33
something for me. I think he's still waiting on me
43:35
to get it right, Nathan, because I look, I still struggle every
43:38
day. I'm very as I said, I'm
43:39
rebellious. I'm disobedient.
43:42
I I don't like rules and so, you know, God has to let me fall a
43:46
bunch of times before I finally, OK, you know, I'm listening now,
43:51
but you know, part of what that that looks like for me.
43:54
I'm not a religious guy. I do attend the church.
43:58
I do read the word of of God, try to on a daily basis.
44:03
I pray on a daily basis. I hang out with men of faith on
44:10
a regular basis. I've got, I've got multiple
44:14
groups of men that I hang out with and you know, we pray
44:17
together, we talk about life together, we remind each other
44:21
God's faithfulness together. And, and so it's a man, it's a
44:27
daily, it's a daily work for me, what I, what I wish.
44:33
And I've, you know, I've been saying this for years.
44:35
I'm not a theologian. I don't know I know Scripture,
44:38
but what I don't know is Scripture and verse.
44:40
You, you I can tell. Hey, it says this in the Bible.
44:42
I don't know where, man. I don't know if it's new.
44:44
I don't know scripture and verse, but I know scripture,
44:46
right. I've read enough of it to, to
44:48
apply it in my life. And then, you know, I've seen
44:50
for me just so many miracles in my life, my just my, my personal
44:54
life. For one, my marriage, the
44:57
restoration of, of, of my marriage in many ways where I've
45:00
tried to destroy it. The the miracles of my kids, the
45:03
miracles of my businessman. I've literally been broke and,
45:06
you know, back to the top. He's restored me several times
45:09
just because I've made mistakes. But and and then just the
45:13
relation, man, I have relationships literally all over
45:15
the world today. You know, you and I talking, I
45:17
met you because of, you know, a Maxwell team and I have
45:20
relationships all over the world today.
45:23
And you know, our business continues to thrive and be
45:25
fruitful. So I look at all those things
45:27
and without faith, and sometimes it's just, you know, I'm not
45:33
saying I trust, but I have faith.
45:34
You know, I'm not saying I always trust.
45:37
It yeah, it, it's true. Well, and and it's interesting
45:40
because as you kind of go down your life and your journey,
45:44
there's a point where you get to the place where you know you
45:47
say, do do you have faith to continue keep going even though
45:51
you don't necessarily know when the outcome is going to happen
45:54
right. There's there, there are the
45:57
things that you do, the daily habits that you have that you
46:00
just hope and you pray that as you continue to do this, this
46:03
consistency will pay off at some point.
46:06
In fact, I'm you have had the opportunity to be in the room
46:09
with some truly amazing people. And I'm not even going to begin
46:14
to name people that you've been in the room with, but you have
46:18
had the honor to truly be with some great, amazing people and
46:22
amazing leaders throughout your life.
46:25
You know, you served on and the President's Advisory counsel for
46:28
Maxwell for a number of years. You were part of the Maxwell
46:32
Leadership Transformational Leadership Awards of recognizing
46:36
leaders throughout the world that were submitted to recognize
46:40
them in their leadership in different areas.
46:42
You have truly gotten to be in rooms with amazing people.
46:46
And there are moments for me where I get in a room with
46:48
someone that's absolutely amazing.
46:50
I get the opportunity to talk with them and to learn from
46:52
them. And I just think, holy cow, why
46:55
am I here? Why out of everyone here, I'm
46:58
the least qualified. I shouldn't be here now.
47:00
I'm qualified. I'm good.
47:02
I, I, I, I should be in the room.
47:04
But the feeling of not feeling like I should be there.
47:08
How, how do you continue to move forward knowing that there's an
47:14
opportunity? Like, how do you sharpen
47:16
yourself so that when opportunity comes, like getting
47:19
to meet someone who's a mentor or someone who's a a childhood
47:23
hero, how do you sharpen yourself for those moments so
47:27
that you can make the most out of it?
47:30
Yeah, Look, I don't know if it's a gift or a curse.
47:33
I don't have. I don't have any heroes in life,
47:36
OK? No heroes.
47:38
I don't like John Maxwell. Loved him.
47:40
Got to sit next to him, got to learn from him.
47:43
Got to be mentored by him. John.
47:45
John is not a hero to me, right? I don't have hero worship.
47:48
I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
47:53
I, I don't get awestruck when I'm, I don't, I don't like, I
47:56
don't, you know, I don't get chasing down celebrities and
47:59
getting autographs and those kind of things.
48:01
Like I just don't have that. I'm not wired that way.
48:04
But, but I do have a, a great deal of respect for John or
48:08
anybody else that I've been in the room with like that, right?
48:11
I and as you said, I've, I've been blessed to be able to, to,
48:15
to meet, interview, talk to lots and lots of people.
48:19
I have a great deal of respect for who they are as humans, what
48:23
they've done, what they've accomplished.
48:26
But at the end of the day, I for, for, for, you know, bad or
48:31
good. Nathan, I've sit in so many
48:33
rooms with so many different people.
48:34
I know that we're all flawed human beings and so we should
48:38
worship no one other than our God, right?
48:40
We and, and that's just a personal philosophy of mine.
48:43
However, for, for your question, I always want to be ready,
48:47
right? I want to be, I want to be ready
48:49
to have a conversation. And so I'm continually trying to
48:52
sharpen my saw reading, listening to, I listen to, I
48:57
listen to lots of podcasts, right?
48:58
Not only do I publish a podcast, I listen to podcasts.
49:02
I'm constantly trying to learn and, and from all different
49:05
walks of life. Like I'm, I'm trying to listen,
49:08
learn a lot about AI right now. So I'm listening to some AI
49:10
podcasts. I listen to, to, to, to
49:13
Christian leader podcast. I listen to secular leader
49:16
podcast. I'm trying to learn from all
49:18
perspectives, man, because I truly want to understand, you
49:22
know, no matter who they are, I want to be able to understand
49:23
and speak into, you know, their lives or be able to ask
49:27
questions from different perspectives as well.
49:30
I think the worst thing we can do, the greatest thing I did was
49:32
go, you know, as I said, I was running away from something when
49:35
I joined the military. But I think that's sometimes the
49:37
greatest thing we can do is get away from our conditioning and
49:40
learn some new things, right? Learn some new perspectives and
49:44
don't be fixed minded, right? We have to be constantly growth
49:47
minded or open minded, if you will, to try to learn new
49:50
things. That doesn't mean I I have very,
49:52
very strong convictions and values and beliefs and I'm and
49:56
you're not going to change them, Nathan, I don't care what your
49:59
beliefs are. You're not going to change mind
50:03
it, but but I've done the work right.
50:05
I've done the study. I've I know that my beliefs are
50:08
are built on a solid foundation. So I, so I think for everybody
50:15
that that's the work you got to do is understand what your,
50:19
your, your beliefs and your values are and don't have hero
50:24
worship, but be very respectful of those that have done things
50:27
you haven't done. So you have the opportunity to
50:29
learn from them. And I think, I think that's one
50:31
of the, I don't, I probably didn't answer the question the
50:34
way you were thinking I would, but that's just true for me,
50:38
man. I, I don't, I don't worship
50:42
anybody other than, you know, my God and maybe my family.
50:45
You know, I'll probably worship my family too much, but I
50:48
wouldn't change it. Well, no, I love it because even
50:51
scripturally it says to fear God, fear no man, and it's true.
50:57
And I and I experienced similar things.
50:59
There are people that that I look at and they're like, wow,
51:02
these these people are actually very, very successful.
51:05
I'm like, wow, like this is crazy.
51:08
But there's there's not a moment of fanboy.
51:10
It's, you know, Oh my goodness, I'm not that kind of person.
51:15
And I think there is, you know, a tongue, tongue in cheek kind
51:18
of piece to that of going, OK, we're all humans, we're all
51:20
flawed. You know, our mentors, the
51:23
people that have poured into our lives, they're just as fallible
51:27
as we are. Whatever you put on a pedestal,
51:29
it's it's, it's bound to fall off at at a certain point.
51:32
So stop putting things on a pedestal.
51:34
Yeah, look, the the reality is is anybody can fall and fail
51:37
every day. I used to, I used to do that
51:39
man. And it can make you really jaded
51:42
because when you see somebody that you know, maybe was a hero,
51:44
they do something, they do something wrong or bad in, in in
51:49
society's eyes, You know, we want to discard them.
51:52
We want to throw them away. But you know, there's scripture.
51:56
I don't know what scripture it is in Matthew somewhere about
51:58
taking the log out of your own eye right before, before you
52:02
point out the, the, the splinter in someone else's eye, right.
52:04
And I look, I have so many, so many failures, mistakes, and if
52:08
everybody knew it, you, you wouldn't be talking to me today,
52:11
Nathan. So I try not to judge another
52:13
man or woman, but I certainly try not to put 1.
52:17
And I don't want anybody putting me on a pedestal.
52:18
What I do know, though, as a leader and the work that I do,
52:22
the target is extremely big on my back.
52:25
Like people are judging me more. You know, James talks about that
52:30
in, in, in scripture. You know, if you're going to be
52:32
a teacher, make sure you're, you're, you're living out what
52:35
you teach, right, or or don't teach.
52:38
And so I do understand that as a leader, you know, I'm judging,
52:41
I'm judging John. I even did that when I first met
52:44
John. Is, is this dude real?
52:45
Like he writes this stuff. Is this dude real?
52:46
Is he really like, you know, I met him this one time.
52:49
Is he really like that? I can say, you know, with John,
52:51
I've been around John enough, enough to know he is, he is what
52:54
you see, right? I've he he's the guy that you
52:57
see, you know, in public behind. I've been behind closed doors
53:01
with him. You know, he's that guy.
53:02
And you can't, you know, not you can't say that about everybody,
53:05
not even myself, Nathan, I'm, you know, transparently I'm I'm
53:09
not perfect man. I I'm not always the nice guy
53:12
behind closed doors that I am in public a lot of times.
53:15
So you know, I'm still working progress.
53:18
Yeah, I think we all are. And and it really is important
53:21
to go into every situation understanding that we're all, we
53:24
all have issues. We no one, no one is perfect,
53:27
perfect. I, I had probably the, the best
53:31
introduction into Maxwell because when people introduced
53:34
me to him and his work, I kind of read his stuff very little
53:39
though. And when I went through his
53:41
certification, I still didn't really know who Maxwell was.
53:44
You know, I still remember sitting in a in a hot tub at the
53:49
World Marriott with a bunch of people from another conference
53:54
that were there at the same time.
53:55
And they said, man, Can you believe these people at this
53:58
cult like this John Maxwell guy? And I was like, Oh no, did I
54:01
just join a cult? Like what have I done?
54:05
But you know, John, John is the same person on the stage that he
54:10
is off the stage like he, he truly is.
54:13
He lives a life of alignment. But just like all of us, we all
54:17
have our, our shortcomings and our followings.
54:20
You know, Mike, I've, I've really enjoyed getting to talk
54:22
to you, learning more about your history, your journey of, of
54:27
getting to where you are today. You truly are a successful
54:29
coach. You're a successful speaker and
54:31
what you do, you have worked with so many amazing people.
54:35
And I have I have one more question here for you, but
54:38
before I ask it for all of you listening right now, if you want
54:41
to learn more about Mike, I would encourage you to check out
54:44
harbourresources.com. That's HARBOUR resources.com and
54:51
TuneIn to the lead up podcast for weekly leadership insights.
54:55
It's truly phenomenal. But make sure you grab a copy of
54:57
his book Quit Losing talent, the expanded edition.
55:01
It is truly a must read for anyone who wants to build a
55:04
culture of people. And if you don't want your
55:07
people to leave, it's a great book.
55:10
So make sure you go check that out.
55:12
Mike, I think there's a lot of people today that are searching
55:16
for who they're created to be. What what are they supposed to
55:19
do with their life? You know, we were talking about
55:20
this, you know, with with who you were trying to figure out
55:24
who you wanted to be as a kid. But, you know, also looking at
55:28
your own kids that are that are kind of finding their own way,
55:31
figuring out what it is that they want to do, who it is that
55:33
they want to be. What would you say to the person
55:36
that is just kind of lost right now?
55:38
They're trying to figure out, well, what's my next step?
55:41
What should I do next? How would you encourage them to
55:44
take that next step to be more of who they were created to be
55:47
today? Yeah.
55:49
It's a great question that I think we all have to ponder.
55:56
And I think, you know, I want to speak to maybe the different age
56:00
groups that may be listening to your show.
56:02
Nathan, first of all, if you're young, you don't have to have it
56:07
all figured out too soon. Look, I was in my 30s before I
56:11
started pursuing what I do today, right?
56:15
I was 34 when I started really kind of changing my life.
56:20
I was 36 when I started my own business.
56:22
I was 41 when I joined the John Maxwell team.
56:28
I was 45 before I started really doing what I do today full time.
56:34
I'm 55 today. So what I would say, you know,
56:38
to the young people is do some different things, like try some
56:43
different things, work in some different jobs and give them
56:46
give them long enough to know whether you love it, whether
56:50
you're wired to do it. Look for those little, you know,
56:54
God whispers. I call them when when there's
56:56
opportunities that kind of fall in your lap as as to is this the
57:00
direction I go. I'm not one of these guys that
57:03
likes to tell people to follow your passion because look, there
57:07
are there are a lot of people that are passionate about, you
57:09
know, video games, but they're not making any money, right?
57:12
They're they're not, they're not making the world a better place.
57:15
They're not thriving in life. And then eventually, you know,
57:18
I'm not saying you can't do that, right?
57:19
I mean, there are a lot of people that played a lot of
57:21
video games today that are flying drones around the world
57:23
or they're all up in AI technology or whatever.
57:26
I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
57:27
I'm just saying do things that that challenge you, stretch you
57:33
to learn some new things. Also start developing your your
57:39
relational skills. I was a horrible, you know, I
57:43
often tell people, Nathan, that I left home with 0 ability to
57:46
communicate with others. You know, my parents were like
57:48
fire and gasoline. They were, you know,
57:50
combustible, explosive all the time.
57:53
I didn't like people. I had a lot of anger.
57:55
I wasn't friendly to people. I, I'm not going to say I wasn't
57:58
friendly. It just wasn't nice.
57:59
You know, I think you be friendly, but not nice, right?
58:01
I, because I had, I had all these internal things going on,
58:04
right? I'm 100% believer that all of
58:07
leadership, all of life happens between our ears.
58:09
And So what we're thinking about ourselves, we're often
58:11
projecting on to other people, right?
58:12
So you need to go to work on like building your relationship
58:16
skills, learning to be a better communicator, learning to get
58:18
along with other people, learning to, to not only, you
58:21
know, not be so fixed minded on your, your own mindset that
58:25
you're, that you're close minded and can't learn some new things.
58:28
Because I think when you're able to do that, then you can step
58:30
into these other relationships with people and maybe find your
58:34
passion, right? I think that's a that's a path
58:37
to passion is when you get to when you're, when you're nice
58:40
and build relationships with people, you get exposed.
58:43
Nathan, as you mentioned, you know, kind of a little bit of my
58:46
track record, I was then able to get exposed to other people to
58:49
learn some different things that yeah, this is really what I love
58:51
to do is what I want to do and it and it is what I am doing
58:55
today. So that's kind of for the, the
58:56
younger people for, for those that are maybe in the middle of
59:02
life. You know, I was, I was 36 when I
59:05
started my own business. I had very little money, two
59:08
kids, a wife. It's the greatest thing I did.
59:12
I took the risk, right? And, and I just set a goal.
59:15
I'm going to survive. I told my wife, we'll either be
59:17
bankrupt in 10 in six months or, and I'll go get another job or,
59:21
or I'll survive. And here I am 19 years later,
59:23
going on 20, right? If you know what you like to do,
59:27
you know what you want to do, man, give it your all.
59:29
Jump in with both feet and go go get it and then figure it out.
59:32
Like you're not going to know everything.
59:34
You don't have to know. Like I'm still figuring things
59:36
out. I'm reading a new book right
59:37
now. I'm trying to grow my business.
59:39
I'm reading a new book about scaling my business and just the
59:42
the part I read last night, I'm like, Oh, man, that's like a
59:44
punch in the gut, man. I got to do better at that,
59:46
right. So you're you're constantly
59:48
going to be, you know, learn. That's one of the things I used
59:50
to I used to be so afraid of failure, Nathan, that I wouldn't
59:53
fail, right. I was a baseball player in
59:55
baseball is 70% failure. By the way, if you're if you're
59:58
really good, dere Jeter. Career 311 baseball, you know,
1:00:03
hit her at the plate. That means he failed 69% of the
1:00:06
time that he that he walked up to the plate, right.
1:00:08
He's one is considered one of the greatest baseball players
1:00:10
ever. And and I was a baseball player
1:00:13
and I hated to strike out. I hated to get out because I
1:00:15
felt like a a failure. But the reality of life is you
1:00:18
got to fail forward. John Maxwell wrote a book about
1:00:21
that fell forward so that you can learn like what are you good
1:00:24
at? And then for the older people
1:00:26
that, and I say older, maybe people that are my age, the more
1:00:30
it's not too late. Yeah.
1:00:32
I mean, it's not too late, man. It's not too late.
1:00:35
Get get after it. Serve the world, serve
1:00:38
backwards, right? Mentor somebody, serve forward.
1:00:41
There's a lot of old people that have lost, you know, their their
1:00:44
purpose in life too. And, and, and try to try to help
1:00:47
them. And and so I, I think sometimes,
1:00:51
you know, if we're younger, let me just kind of summarize.
1:00:53
If you're younger, you got to kind of work yourself into your
1:00:55
purpose, Nathan. I don't think, I don't think not
1:00:58
everybody might like Charlie Kurt, God rest his soul.
1:01:01
He, he kind of knew it, right? He knew it at a young age.
1:01:04
Most people aren't like that. You kind of got to work your way
1:01:07
into your purpose and you got to try some different things and
1:01:09
learn some different things and, and be around some different
1:01:12
people. I know lots of doctors today.
1:01:14
I do most of my work in the healthcare field.
1:01:16
They wanted to be a doctor because someone in their family
1:01:18
told them they need to be a doctor and they hate being a
1:01:20
doctor today, right? So don't go down the path that
1:01:24
others say you should go down either necessarily.
1:01:28
I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
1:01:29
I'm just saying be sure that's what, where you want to go.
1:01:31
And I think sometimes if you're younger, work yourself into that
1:01:34
purpose. Give yourself, be patient with
1:01:37
yourself. Some of the greatest inventors
1:01:39
and, and discoverers and business people started way
1:01:42
later in life, you know, forties, 50-60 years old before
1:01:45
they really figured it out. And, and so, but the, I think, I
1:01:50
think more important than purpose, Nathan, is values.
1:01:54
What are your values? What do you stand on?
1:01:57
Purpose, excellence, action, Ignite, Dr. Deliver.
1:02:01
That's my 6 values, right? Purpose, excellence, action,
1:02:04
Ignite, Dr. Deliver, they all mean something to me.
1:02:06
And I, everything I do, it's got to line up with those, those
1:02:10
values. And, and if it's done line up
1:02:15
with those values, then it's not purposeful for me.
1:02:17
That's kind of the way I look at it.
1:02:20
Man, if you're listening right now, go back re listen to what
1:02:25
he was just talking about. There is so much value, so much
1:02:28
gold and everything that he just said over the last five minutes.
1:02:32
There is so much for you at every single aspect of life to
1:02:36
be able to. I understand that you don't have
1:02:39
to have it all figured out. You don't even have to have it
1:02:41
figured out near the end of your life, as long as you're
1:02:43
continually able to adjust and recalculate.
1:02:47
No I I I always hated that stupid TomTom whenever I get
1:02:51
lost and recalculating. Recalculating.
1:02:54
But that truly is life. Life is about learning to
1:02:57
recalculate and to be able to try something new, to be willing
1:03:01
to fail and to fail over and over until you discover what you
1:03:06
were created to do. And I think you're right.
1:03:09
A lot of people today are doing things because they were told
1:03:15
that they should do it or maybe they had a skill, but maybe it's
1:03:18
not exactly what they that really ignites them that really
1:03:22
makes them passionate. You know, listening to you,
1:03:24
Mike, you're so passionate about leadership.
1:03:27
You're so passionate about development and learning and and
1:03:31
showing up as the person that you were created to be.
1:03:34
So I really appreciate your willingness to come on the show
1:03:38
to pour into every single person listening to pour into me.
1:03:41
I really do Thank you. It's been a transformational
1:03:44
episode for all of you listening.
1:03:45
Make sure you subscribe and share this episode.
1:03:48
Share this episode with someone because someone right now in
1:03:51
your the immediate circle needs to hear some of the things that
1:03:55
Mike said today on the podcast. So until next time, be more, see
1:04:00
more, and experience more than before.