Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 185. Donor Engagement Kindergarten Style: The Golden Rule - Jonathan McCoy and CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE

Transcript

185. Donor Engagement Kindergarten Style: The Golden Rule - Jonathan McCoy and CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm john.
• 0:02
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:05
  Becky Endicott: nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Hey, Becky, Happy Friday,
• 0:37
  Becky Endicott: Happy Friday, everybody new series.
• 0:39
  Jonathan McCoy: I know we're so excited. We are taking everybody back to kindergarten. So you know, I feel like the industry, one of the things that we felt really confident about when we started we're for good, we were tired of just the old guard that always made things really super important. And I know more than you and the pontification. And we wanted to come at this of like, development, the best development officers that we ever knew the people that were most effective at raising money, were always the people that were just relatable and easy to talk to, and had kind of the kindergarten style way of living and seeing others correct.
• 1:13
  Becky Endicott: And I think this notion came to us, sort of at the infancy of this company anyway. And I just noticed that people were saying things to us.
• 1:20
  Becky Endicott: And I would say it's the thing we get most often, which is, you guys are just nice. Funny to us, right? And it's like, well, of course, you know, when you when you're nice to somebody, typically you're going to get a very positive reaction to something like that. And so we have young children, and we had the subsequently Yeah, sorry, yes, collective not collectively, john has his family, I had mine. Yes. But you know, this company started when my youngest was in kindergarten, and I would hear her come home and say certain things, and I would create, and just see the alignment with development. And we started to see if you actually kick it back old school, and go back to those time honored values of kindergarten, you actually can have an extraordinary not only development shop culturally, but you can have a robust donor engagement strategy. And that's what we're going to be breaking down.
• 2:19
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, I mean, we just think it's so like transferable to your team, as you try to bring on people maybe that have not grown up in development, or spent a lot of time in their career. The principles we want to share through this series are something that anybody can relate to. And what's powerful is that we knew these to be true through our own experiences. But the 180 episodes we've dropped this podcast have just confirmed time and time again, that this is the bedrock, this is the core ethos that if you get these things, right, you can have transformation. And so today is the beginning of a multi week series where we're doing donor engagement, kindergarten style, and we're starting with none other than the golden rule,
• 2:56
  Becky Endicott: the golden rule, how do we treat people because we want to treat people the way that we want to be treated. And so we're starting there and I we're going to break this down in three components, we're going to be talking about the principles. So we're going to talk about what we mean and the golden rule and how it applies.
• 3:11
  Becky Endicott: In the fundraising round, we're going to be talking about case studies of who is doing this really well in the sector. And then we're gonna have some pro tips for you about what you can do to actually implement this today in your own environment.
• 3:23
  Becky Endicott: So john, talk about the golden rule,
• 3:27
  Jonathan McCoy: okay. I mean, I'm, I'm a PK, I'm a preacher's kid. So this has been very much baked into my DNA from the very beginning of time. But it's the whole idea of treating other people how you would want to be treated. And so at a fundamental level, if you're not valuing your lowest donors in terms of dollars that they're giving, or really the people that you're serving, I mean, from a beneficiary level, the people that you really serve even exist, the only reason you exist as a nonprofit, if you're not valuing everybody, at every part of the equation, like you are completely missing this point.
• 3:59
  Jonathan McCoy: And you're missing opportunity for cultivation throughout that whole thing. And so I think you should do it as a good human.
• 4:04
  Jonathan McCoy: Like, let's be very clear. But from a strategy standpoint, if you don't have systems in place to treat your low level donors, like rock stars, you're missing out for probably ever seeing them become transformational donors as they fall more in love with the impact that they're getting to make and just the overall mission.
• 4:23
  Becky Endicott: So why would we go to all of this trouble? I mean, because of when we talk about this, I feel people's anxiety starting to swell because it's like, they could have 10s of 1000s of donors in their, in their market in their database. And it's like, how would I get to each of them to make them feel seen, but I have to tell you where this ethos came from for us, you know, when you work in a development shop at any level for any level of time, you notice something and you notice that your top donors volunteers, board members, that top 1% they get treated very, very well. It feels good to be treated well in that way. And that's no shock. But then we stopped and thought about it.
• 5:05
  Becky Endicott: And we said, if the number one core value of our company is everyone matters, then that means that every person in our community should feel like the top 1% when they're in our house. And so this is just an exercise and how we can connect and make people feel seen. And it's not something that has to be completely one off there.
• 5:26
  Becky Endicott: automations for this, there are ways to do it without being robotic. And so let's talk about how to apply the principle of the golden rule. JOHN, where should we start,
• 5:35
  Jonathan McCoy: I love application like this is awesome. So I mean, we talk a lot about authenticity, because you can't just say that you value everyone. And that not trickled down into how you actually show up. And so we feel like you've got to start with authenticity matters. That means the way that you're communicating the way that your policies are set up, like is it really structured that everybody matters, and the authenticity is going to come out? And maybe not immediately. But over time, people are going to realize if you're just saying that you're important to them? Or if you really are important, are you really listening, if you say you want feedback, are you really taking action on that feedback, and that's part of all this, like threading it all together.
• 6:14
  Becky Endicott: And so the second one is asking yourself, is our organization or our program truly inclusive? So I know a lot of us, like, might just take those stock photos and start to drop them in, you know, to different marketing pieces, but it's like, really, grab some authentic photos of your people.
• 6:34
  Becky Endicott: And is it inclusive of who you are as a mission? And I would say, not even just in what your marketing and how you're portraying your mission, look at your staff, look at your board, are they representative of the missions that you're serving?
• 6:47
  Jonathan McCoy: And I mean, are you looking at donors beyond this, number three, you're looking beyond just the giving amount. I mean, that is an old school model of thinking of only segmenting your donor base based on the gift amount, because we teach this a lot. And this is really powerful. We're not just trying to raise dollars, like, absolutely, that is dollars equals your ability to deliver your mission in a lot of ways.
• 7:10
  Jonathan McCoy: But we're also looking at what systems and structures can we put in place to build and galvanize believers of your mission, because especially in today's world, I think this is really unique is that somebody with no actual money in the bank could have the most social capital on the web, and have a community, an online community that could have incredible force that can be way more impactful than money. And not that you're only building for that. But that's just one example of you have to build these systems in place that you are looking at people beyond just the dollar figure.
• 7:45
  Becky Endicott: And just a gentle reminder, when we talk about believers, we mean that you should start with building a believer, because from believers come donors, volunteers, board members, event attendees, everything flows from a believer. So don't start with the donor in mind.
• 8:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And don't you think I mean, we don't talk about this a ton. But what does belief really mean? To us, it comes back to the idea that they fundamentally a believe in what you're trying to do, like they believe in the mission. But here's where I think the powerful thing is that they believe that their philanthropy or their investment, their volunteer hour, whatever they're putting into your mission, that that actually translates into doing something. And I think when people connect that dot, they start to give more generously, they start to lean in more actively. And that is what a believer does categorically different than just somebody that's passively giving,
• 8:40
  Becky Endicott: I could not agree more in to me, they will not let you fail. They do not want to see your mission fail.
• 8:46
  Becky Endicott: And so they will rise when you need them. So okay, we just went off on a tangent and that and I am loving that squirrel. We're, we're chasing. So number four is are you meeting donors in their spaces? I mean, you just talked about segmentation, john, and I think that is so important. But it's really about looking at your donors and different contrasts. And you are not going to communicate the same way with a 20 year old that you are with a 60 year old donor. And so finding the spaces where your believers are hanging out and customizing those messages in that space is sort of a next level pro tip.
• 9:18
  Jonathan McCoy: So good. So this one applies to all of us to is this number five is treating your employees like donors, so your employee donors like donors, and I think this really came to, I don't know, full reality for us working in a health system that had 10,000 employees across our state. And we just had this realization that we're trying to ask them to be part of this mission, and those that are giving, why are we putting them in these boxes that are just getting mass communication and mass treatment, whenever they're taking money out of their paycheck to invest back in their mission. If you really think about it, it seems crazy. And we've got to get in the mindset of like they are just as important and vital as a donor.
• 9:58
  Jonathan McCoy: As some The outside the organization, maybe even more, because they're dedicating their life and time into your walls.
• 10:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And so are you looking at it that way? Are you really leaning in and showing the appreciation and stewardship to those right around you in the smallest circle?
• 10:13
  Becky Endicott: And tip here, employee donors are donors.
• 10:17
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, I mean, separating them out, is doing an injustice to the base of your donors, because their linkage to your mission is so on the front lines, that they are kind of an elevated donor in my mind and admission so we could refund employee donors forever. Okay, the last one is, are you storytelling ethically?
• 10:36
  Becky Endicott: And what we mean by this is, are you honoring the person whose story you are sharing? Are you making sure that is communicated with dignity? Are you making sure that their story is uplifting to them, and not just the mission, and so take a little step back after you write those stories, make sure you're looking at it through the lens of the beneficiary, and that will ensure that everyone matters not only the person reading it, but the person being highlighted as well.
• 11:03
  Jonathan McCoy: So that's just the perfect segue into the case study portion of this conversation today. And, you know, we get to be witness to a lot of different missions that are doing things really well through the podcast, and some of our favorite people are the she's the first people. Tammy Tibbets, Kristen Brandt, they were on last season or two seasons ago, at this point, everything's running together.
• 11:23
  Jonathan McCoy: But the idea of everyone matters and storytelling, ethically, they do it so well, because their mission, you know, is global. They are serving women girls overseas throughout the entire world, trying to empower them, give them access to education, all the resources that they need. But they're so in tune with listening, and building relationships on the very front line of who they're serving, that it informs everything. And over the last couple of years, they came out and were really public about this. And something I really want to give them kudos to is for the way that they have taken and morphed, actually did away with their traditional sponsorship program. And not because every sponsorship program ever made is wrong. But as they're honoring the dignity of the girls, that the sponsorship program supported, because they see everybody, they realize that it opens up some pieces that they just really weren't comfortable with some of the traditional power dynamics of the hero victim narrative.
• 12:18
  Jonathan McCoy: Some of the, you know, dignity of, you know, the girl that is being quote sponsored, is she just sitting waiting for a response that may may or may not come from a donor, and just kind of changing the dynamic of that realizing that it wasn't aligned with their values, they made the hard decision to stop that program. And I think that's the kind of mindset shifts that that we're talking about here that if you step more boldly into your values more meaningfully, like your donors that align are going to get closer and closer to your mission as a result.
• 12:52
  Becky Endicott: I love the she's the first gals and they do such an incredible job, I feel like of meeting their missions needs seeing every person as the one.
• 12:59
  Becky Endicott: And to me that completely underscores the the principle of the golden rule. So brilliant analogy, we have one more with Cornell University. And I feel like Cornell is such a like ubiquitous name. I mean, they're Ivy League, I think of Andy from the office and the way he's dropping Cornell Cornell University, but we had a really interesting conversation with them this year. And they really approach engagement from a year round strategy. And so they start with something they call the 1865 Society. And it's a loyalty based giving society that flat out does not care about gift amount. They don't care what kind of a donor you are, you could be a student, you could be an employee, you could be a major gift donor, but you're all grouped together. And the way that they communicate with this group is really about looking at donors equally to show their appreciation and their recognition for them. So they have a crazy amount of engagement that's fostered here.
• 14:00
  Becky Endicott: And as we're digging into the society, we found something so interesting about the way that they structured their team.
• 14:07
  Becky Endicott: About two years ago, they assembled this dream team and they broke down the silos of annual giving donor relations, marketing and digital and they sort of more merge these departments together, and now they have an email channel and a donor journey. And someone who manages DMS and texting somebody managing crowdfunding, can you guys imagine being this forward thinking? And so what we talked to Corinne over there was that she said, we all kind of stay in our lane, but then we all merge into the journey. And so when you think about they have 165,000 people in their database, they sent 39 million emails last year. I mean, our hearts all going a million miles a minute because that is so antithetical to what we've been taught. However, let's look at the day points, they are raising more money, they raise more money last year in COVID than they ever had before. Their engagement is through the roof.
• 15:06
  Becky Endicott: And I will say these emails are not solicitation, they were such a great balance of that engagement. They were sharing zoom backgrounds of the university and the landscape, they were putting together a little digital puzzle that you could do with your kids. That was something that was very Cornell related of, you know, a building on campus. And it was so light, and so human. And it made anybody who was getting their emails, kind of brought a levity and a joy to it. So it was kind of interesting, people wanted to open their email. So the open rate was just through the roof. And they tried to be incredibly conversational. And they're always daring to innovate and try new things. And to me, this is a hallmark of a really great case study of valuing everyone matters because we can diversify the way that we're engaging. We don't have to save all of our incredible content and all of our valuable pieces of engagement for our top donors, why wouldn't we democratize that, and give that to everyone, even at the base level. And now Cornell is seeing this huge rise from their base of giving, pouring into their events, and their opportunities.
• 16:15
  Becky Endicott: And at the end of the day, they're raising more money, which is just incredible. So way to go Cornell,
• 16:22
  Jonathan McCoy: I love that example. And they just have so many like ways that you can see, we'll link it up in the show notes, that you can go back and see the kinds of different freebies that they offer this list, which is really fascinating. Okay, so we've done some principles, we've looked at some case studies, let's round this out with some pro tips, as you start to think about implementing this principle of the golden rule seeing everybody, let's start here, data is so important now. And this is hard, because the three of us that we're for good really struggle with data. But here's, here's why I bring up data.
• 16:53
  Jonathan McCoy: Because at some level, when you see everyone and you're trying to shepherd a movement of 1000s of people, clearly, you're going to have to have some automations in place. And all the modern CRMs, the ones that we partner with on this podcast that you hear us talk about, offer this type of functionality, but the automations only ever going to be as good as the data that's going in. So like if you have a data first culture, and if you have this idea of actually tracking the correct information about your constituents, then that's going to allow you to have personalized engagement in mass whenever you can't have the personalized touch point. So that means making sure that the marriage relationship is correct, that's looking at like, are they still at the company that you think that they're at, it's the small things. But those are the things that can really set apart for a donor to receive something from you that's in mass and realize, Oh, they really do know me, or they know that we're this couple, or we work at this organization,
• 17:49
  Becky Endicott: I have to say something that might be a severe comment. But in this new digital world, if you are not making time to look at your data, you will never be able to ensure the efficiency and the vibrancy of your community. So what I'm saying here is, you need to put some time on your calendar to look at maybe it's your data analytics, it's to work with your database administrator to extract some campaign data and kind of splice it up and allow the data to inform and tell you where you need to be pointed. So I will be the first to confess I am the worst at data. But in this new global community, in this world that we're creating, you have got to make it a priority. Okay, stepping off my soapbox, and I am heading over into the next pro tip, which is Dei, you know, we are evangelist of diversity, equity and inclusion. And I have to say, this is a very hot topic right now. And I want to pray to you and help us make sure that this is just not something that is a trend. This needs to be an evergreen approach to your organization. Because diversity, equity inclusion is essential to a growth mindset and to organizational vibrancy. So again, look around at your board, your staff, your volunteers, are you representing the population you're serving, we need to create spaces and communities that lean toward inclusion, compassion and equality. And that's got to be representative of who we are in our staff makeup. It has to be represented in the marketing pieces that we're putting out.
• 19:25
  Becky Endicott: And we just need to kind of do an internal check in to look around and say, Is everybody at the table and if people are not, then it's incumbent upon you if you are someone of privilege to raise your hand down and pull them up to the table.
• 19:36
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay. This week on the podcast, we dropped a really incredible episode with Caroline foster Gil and she walked us through getting ready for indivior campaigns and something she said I want to lift as a pro tip for this conversation. But the way that you communicate the tone, the way that you show up is critical. And I was laughing with the with you guys earlier today of just this thought of every if everybody remembers the Saturday night lives Get of Debbie Downer, right? Like it was she was the person at the party like everybody's out having a good time. And it's just like, Woe is me, like, everything is just drudgery.
• 20:44
  Jonathan McCoy: Everything is so sad, everything is drama. Nobody wants to be debbie downer. So you don't want to be that role either as your organization's if you think about the tone, we are shepherding people in an entire journey that they're on, some people are really new to the organization, some people have been with you, maybe your entire history. And you just got to think that imagine only communicating with somebody in your life, when it's really intense. And it's really deep.
• 21:09
  Jonathan McCoy: It's really like those kinds of conversations. It's like, you can't just hang with that. But Caroline brought this great idea of just infusing levity, infusing humanity, infusing story and using that joy into the way you communicate. And you realize that you do see people, you see that sometimes you are not ready for a heavy discussion about everything that's wrong in the world. Sometimes you just want to laugh and have a connection point with the mission that you align values with. And so as you do that, you're showing that you see and recognize that not everybody is at the most evolved place ready for that deep conversation.
• 21:43
  Becky Endicott: I love Caroline, she's just such a wise digital marketer. And I want to stay in that lane, as we're talking about social media, because our next pro tip is just a really easy tactic. And I want you to wrap your mind around this.
• 21:57
  Becky Endicott: Every single person who replies to you on your social channel who posts a comment, you need to be replying to them. Even if it's just an emoji, if somebody puts a laughing emoji on your post, that is someone reaching across and saying, I'm interested enough in your mission that I'm willing to engage. And I'm telling you a pro tip is to see every single one of those people respond.
• 22:20
  Becky Endicott: Even if it's a if somebody puts a laughing emoji on a post reply and put two more that are different and say, I know right, and all of a sudden you have a connection to that person. And you're literally beginning to cultivate and foster an online relationship with this individual. It allows you to later on, if they come in again, see them again, reply again, you're starting to build this relationship equity, so that later on you might be asking a question, and then you can tag them and say, Hey, JP McCoy, or john for good, what do you think about this and pull their voice into the mission, you need to be looking at every single person who interacts on your social media channels as someone who is linked and committed to your mission. And so the best way to see them is to simply react to the way that they are pouring into our mission, build that up, it's going to honestly elevate the algorithm, because there's more engagement on your site, it's going to give people more to look at, you're going to be able to be seen as human, and not just some corporate robot, so have fun with it be cheeky, and please respond to every single comment.
• 23:29
  Jonathan McCoy: And if that feels overwhelming, you're probably spread too thin on social, probably, you want to be in a place where you can really engage and build community because if you're not building community, you're probably just using it as a megaphone, which is not the way that social media is intended to be used. Okay, the next one is using tech, this is a lot of tech talk, we realize but to automate amazing stewardship, like you can really surprise your donors if you lean into the tech that's available.
• 23:53
  Jonathan McCoy: If you listen to the podcast, you know, we are big believers in love. Thank you. But thank you has allowed us to do this in our own business here. And let me just say, the transformation that happens in using personalized video to send a stewardship Thank you has been transformational for us. And it only takes a minute, but be making a personalized Welcome to when you join Pro, you can look forward to this you get in the queue. And we're able to make a personalized video that speaks directly to you and the humanity that you can create that moment that connection. It doesn't take that long. But it's something that's incredibly memorable. And I just think of the conversations that it spurred and the deeper engagement and love for what we're doing and understanding of the person coming in the door that it creates. So lean into tools like that.
• 24:38
  Becky Endicott: And you'll probably if you join pro and you get one of those videos, you're probably going to see Becky with no makeup on in her backyard, petting her dog just talking about whatever and seeing you and I have to tell you just selfishly if you're in enneagram two that fills our cup to to reach out to people I know there's a ton of enneagram twos and people who just have a heart for service and nonprofit it actually is something that's very selfish and self serving to me because I enjoy it so much.
• 25:04
  Becky Endicott: So make sure that you're saying all people use that tech Thank you is an incredible platform and we just adore them. But there are lots of ways that you can automate and I know that there are people that I mean even universities who send out their thank views and 1000s of people can get the same video and it's really easy touch point totally human, which goes into our last pro tip which is are you asking humanizing questions and so what we're saying is When you actually get on your social channels, when you're emailing when you see a donor who's sitting across from you, let's not ask those standard questions of Tell me about you tell me about your business, let me tell you about my mission, we need to go deeper, we need to be asking questions that connect a human to another human. There's a reason on our podcast where we start out, getting to know our guest, we don't simply want their, you know, resume, we want to know about them. As a child, we want to know about why they have a heart for working in this sector. And once we start to unpack and peel back those layers, you see something so beautiful, and you cut to the core of who a human is. And I think this can be done not just in person, but I think digitally. It's very interesting to post a question out there and see what people ask or respond to just simply asking, What are you passionate about when it comes to our mission? What's your story of how you got connected to us? Why do you think that were essential? You know, what, what would it look like to your family if we didn't exist? These are very deep questions that can be strong over a long period of time, or even sometimes just in an intro call. And I just think it sets the tone for how your relationship is going to be moving forward. So do a hard reset of looking at those questions, especially when you're going on a cold call or a first time discussion with a prospect. Just think about a way to connect with them as a human being and not a corporate robot.
• 27:04
  Jonathan McCoy: And you know, I think you do this exceptionally well, Becky and Julie and I are always laughing because we study the way that you build relationships, because it's truly fascinating how you have such a breadth of deep connections across the world.
• 27:14
  Jonathan McCoy: But one thing I would say came up in a conversation with the godmother of connection Susan MacPherson Episode 75. I quoted so often I know the episode Amanda, we adore her. But you know, she used the example of like, if you know someone's favorite style of hummus, like the random connection that you can make, just understanding random details, person's life like that creates this different level of connection. And it's easy to just default to those basic questions, but he just talked about, but knowing that you will have more fun, you will get to thread and connect people on the most unusual, but scoped filling ways. And it builds in breeds connection. And let's be honest, no one's buttoned up anymore, right? We're in the zoom culture, post pandemic, people are personal, and they're engaging, and we're all kind of showing all of our authentic selves all the time, right.
• 28:03
  Becky Endicott: And let's just be honest, john is father to two sets of twins. And we have found so many twin connections on the podcast just by starting with that. So that's another example.
• 28:15
  Becky Endicott: Okay, you know that we are geeked out over this topic. We love valuing that every single person matters. And we have to end by saying, You matter as a human being what you are doing to pour into this mission matters. And so start with thinking about how you want people to treat you, and give that gift of reciprocity and turn it right back to them. We think that this is a way even though it's a tiny little kindergarten principle, it is revolutionary. And the way you can build a culture of high engagement, high empathy, and higher humanity. And so please glom on to this take some of these tips, and we can't wait to hear what you've done with it.
• 28:55
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah. And if you have ideas come to the community. So we're forget community is a free place that we hang after every episode, you can join the conversation, and we would love it if you would come in and share ideas or post questions. Becky and I are in there regularly, you know, talking about homeschooling, apparently, yeah, and everything else. So thanks for being here.
• 29:13
  Jonathan McCoy: We can't wait to dive into the rest of the series with you.
• 29:17
  Becky Endicott: We'll see you next week.
• 29:19
  Julie Confer: Hey, friends, thanks so much for being here.
• 29:21
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• 29:52
  Julie Confer: Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy Boris boom