Latest / Speaking of Supply Chain / Automation Will Not Fix a Broken Process

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Automation Will Not Fix a Broken Process · Speaking of Supply Chain

0:00
Speaker 1: Is putting some data around it, it's not getting distracted
0:03
Speaker 1: by kind of all the shiny options out there, which
0:05
Speaker 1: is very easy to do. And then it's saying, what
0:08
Speaker 1: is the problem that we're actually trying to solve with
0:11
Speaker 1: this automation? So are we trying to reduce headcam? Are
0:15
Speaker 1: we trying to increase service level? Are we trying to
0:19
Speaker 1: increase capacity so that we can acquire additional business?
0:25
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where meboch
0:27
Speaker 2: experts from around the world unpack the real stories, strategies,
0:31
Speaker 2: insights and innovations shaping the future of supply chain. I'm
0:35
Speaker 2: your host, Ellen Wood. Automation is one of the biggest
0:38
Speaker 2: topics in warehousing right now. Everywhere you look there's talk
0:42
Speaker 2: of robotics AI fully automated sites, especially across the UK.
0:47
Speaker 2: It feels like we're on the edge of a major transformation.
0:51
Speaker 2: But here's the question we want to explore today. How
0:54
Speaker 2: much of it is real and how much is hype?
0:57
Speaker 2: Because while the technology is moving fast, the reality of
1:00
Speaker 2: the ground can look very different. The investments are huge,
1:04
Speaker 2: the expectations are even bigger, and the outcomes are not
1:08
Speaker 2: always what people expect. So today We're going to cut
1:11
Speaker 2: through some of that noise and we're talking about where
1:14
Speaker 2: automation is genuinely delivering value, where it's falling short, and
1:18
Speaker 2: what businesses should be really thinking about before they take
1:21
Speaker 2: the leap. Joining me today is Sophie James from our
1:26
Speaker 2: UK office. Welcome, Sophie, hi Ellen. It's great to have
1:31
Speaker 2: you back on the podcast.
1:32
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. It has been a while.
1:35
Speaker 2: It has been a while. I was checking it was
1:38
Speaker 2: episode number three, so it's it's been a while, far
1:42
Speaker 2: too long since you've been across the microphone.
1:46
Speaker 1: That's a hint to both of us, isn't it really so?
1:49
Speaker 2: From your perspective, what's actually happening with automation in UK
1:54
Speaker 2: warehousing right now?
1:55
Speaker 1: I think a lot of this perception is that everybody
1:59
Speaker 1: is automated, and everybody's going full hal gone automation right
2:02
Speaker 1: and you know, you don't even need lights on in
2:05
Speaker 1: the site because it's so automated it's dust or But
2:08
Speaker 1: I don't think the reality is really quite as dramatic
2:12
Speaker 1: as that. I think a lot more people are looking
2:15
Speaker 1: at automation automation as a real short term venture, but
2:20
Speaker 1: it's not kind of necessarily big bang, it's more okay,
2:25
Speaker 1: what things could we automate within the site and small
2:30
Speaker 1: introductions of automation, tasters of it in terms of maybe
2:34
Speaker 1: packing or goods to person's solutions, rather than kind of
2:37
Speaker 1: let's automate everything and kind of a full change. I
2:41
Speaker 1: don't think people are quite doing it as big as
2:44
Speaker 1: maybe the assumption maybe is.
2:47
Speaker 2: I agree. I think that the media tends to really
2:51
Speaker 2: dramatize the use of automation, and I think a lot
2:55
Speaker 2: of that's that's driven by the vendors that are out
2:58
Speaker 2: there trying to put out content. But it seems like
3:02
Speaker 2: there's so much more hype about it and that it's
3:05
Speaker 2: bigger than it actually is. So why do you think
3:09
Speaker 2: that it's accelerating now?
3:12
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a good question. I mean, I think previously
3:17
Speaker 1: people have had automation on their kind of future plan,
3:22
Speaker 1: and at some point we will automate if we know
3:24
Speaker 1: we find the right topic. But there's some real problems
3:28
Speaker 1: and real constraints that are happening in the world. You know,
3:32
Speaker 1: labor being availability and cost being one of them, but
3:37
Speaker 1: also the pressure from customers to accept perfection essentially and
3:41
Speaker 1: the threshold for how long it takes me to get
3:45
Speaker 1: something is a lot lower now than it used to be.
3:49
Speaker 1: So these kind of ah, we'll look at automation in
3:52
Speaker 1: the future at some point is actually now becoming let's
3:56
Speaker 1: look at it now. And it's also more affordable. I
3:59
Speaker 1: think not in every case, because we're still talking about
4:02
Speaker 1: some big ticket items, but I think there's ways now
4:06
Speaker 1: that there's different financing options and for automation, which makes
4:11
Speaker 1: it a little bit more accessible for people. So I
4:13
Speaker 1: think there's probably an element to that now about why
4:16
Speaker 1: that's kind of accelerating the the want to look at it.
4:21
Speaker 2: So when you speak to clients, what results are they
4:25
Speaker 2: looking to actually deliver? You talked for a moment about,
4:29
Speaker 2: you know, customer service and the demand for you know,
4:32
Speaker 2: I want my I want my products, and I want
4:34
Speaker 2: it now and perfection is the baseline. And I think
4:38
Speaker 2: that there's there's a degree of truth to that that,
4:41
Speaker 2: you know, we do have customer service standards that that
4:45
Speaker 2: companies have to meet, But is that what their expectation
4:51
Speaker 2: is perfection?
4:53
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think yeah, it's a bold expectation to have, really,
4:58
Speaker 1: isn't it. I think that the expectation is that there
5:00
Speaker 1: will be a return on their investment. Ultimately, I think
5:04
Speaker 1: the main point is to understand what that return on
5:08
Speaker 1: investment really looks like. So typically the expectation would be
5:13
Speaker 1: that it's I get some financial payback within a certain window,
5:17
Speaker 1: but actually there's other benefits to automation that's not solely financial.
5:23
Speaker 1: So that is that kind of service level offering, and
5:26
Speaker 1: there should be the expectation that that will enable growth,
5:30
Speaker 1: for example, into businesses or enable increased services to their
5:35
Speaker 1: customers as well as potentially there will be a labor
5:39
Speaker 1: saving as well as a business resilience piece, So that
5:43
Speaker 1: kind of aspect of regardless of what labor force we've got,
5:48
Speaker 1: we can do what we need to do for our customers.
5:51
Speaker 2: And I know that when we talk about labor savings
5:54
Speaker 2: it's always a touchy subject because you know, people need
5:58
Speaker 2: to be employed. But if if people are not looking
6:02
Speaker 2: for these jobs and these are tasks that can be automated,
6:07
Speaker 2: there's always that fear around job loss that when a
6:10
Speaker 2: company is going to put automation or automated material handling
6:14
Speaker 2: into a facility, that it's going to take away jobs.
6:17
Speaker 2: Is that what we're actually still seeing is that fear realistic.
6:22
Speaker 1: It would be naive to not expect automation to replace
6:27
Speaker 1: tasks that are manually done, because we would be assessing
6:30
Speaker 1: a manual solution versus an automated solution. Automated solutions still
6:36
Speaker 1: need some minding and care and maintenance by people. So
6:41
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily that workforce is being eliminated, but the
6:45
Speaker 1: nature of the work that is being done is changing
6:48
Speaker 1: in reaction to what the automation is or what has
6:51
Speaker 1: been implemented. And there are more technical skills that are
6:56
Speaker 1: required to manage automation than potentially some manual tasks, which
7:00
Speaker 1: are typically the ones being automated.
7:03
Speaker 2: I can see that, and and I imagine when it
7:07
Speaker 2: comes to you know, when these companies are looking at
7:10
Speaker 2: these decisions that they have to make, you know, are
7:13
Speaker 2: is there going to be a reduction in force or
7:15
Speaker 2: is it simply repurposing that employee into a role that
7:18
Speaker 2: is necessary that does require a human brain that cannot
7:22
Speaker 2: be automated because there are so many there are so
7:26
Speaker 2: many tasks and processes and things within within a business,
7:29
Speaker 2: within a facility that that do require a human I mean,
7:33
Speaker 2: even a dark store is going to have humans in
7:37
Speaker 2: it at some point doing something. It's not we're not
7:41
Speaker 2: living in the matrix exactly.
7:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're in the future, but not that far.
7:48
Speaker 2: Where do these go wrong? Then? If it's if it's
7:50
Speaker 2: not you know, the labor issue that you know they're
7:53
Speaker 2: they're clearly able to find some return on their investment
7:56
Speaker 2: by by repurposing the workforce that they have, and they're
8:00
Speaker 2: going to be able to maybe achieve greater service levels
8:04
Speaker 2: or enable growth within their company. Where do the projects
8:09
Speaker 2: go wrong? Because that all sounds like it's win win
8:12
Speaker 2: win exactly.
8:13
Speaker 1: But I mean, we've all heard the phrase two get
8:15
Speaker 1: to be true, right. I think the mistake that people
8:18
Speaker 1: can make is that if you put bad information in,
8:22
Speaker 1: you'll get bad information out. So if you are just
8:26
Speaker 1: putting automation in without thinking about the process itself as
8:30
Speaker 1: a bare bones process, there's likely to be some mistakes made.
8:34
Speaker 1: So the kind of thing that we see is we
8:37
Speaker 1: don't want to automate a bad process because then we're
8:40
Speaker 1: still automating waste. What we really want to do, and
8:43
Speaker 1: the advice that we would always give is, let's make
8:46
Speaker 1: sure that the process makes sense first, and we optimize
8:49
Speaker 1: what makes sense, and then we apply the appropriate automation
8:53
Speaker 1: for the optimized process. Rather than let's just supersede everything
8:57
Speaker 1: that we do now with something that does it a
9:00
Speaker 1: little bit quicker and in a more technical way. So
9:03
Speaker 1: that would be the kind of thing I would say
9:05
Speaker 1: is one of the biggest parts. And the other part
9:09
Speaker 1: is actually the acceptance of automation. So as I said
9:12
Speaker 1: at the start, it's kind of not always just this
9:15
Speaker 1: big bang solution of let's just wipe clean and automate everything.
9:20
Speaker 1: Automation is now being introduced in stages into operations that
9:23
Speaker 1: are already running alongside people who have been there for
9:27
Speaker 1: maybe a quite long time. So there's also an acceptance
9:31
Speaker 1: of the automation into the operation that needs to be
9:35
Speaker 1: thought about and introduced carefully, because ultimately you need the
9:41
Speaker 1: people that are still working in the operation to adopt it,
9:45
Speaker 1: work with it, make sure that it is maintained, and
9:49
Speaker 1: cooperate with it. And if they don't do that, then
9:51
Speaker 1: that ultimately the process doesn't work. So there's a kind
9:54
Speaker 1: of two main things. One is making sure the process
9:56
Speaker 1: is optimal, and then the second is making sure that
9:59
Speaker 1: it's in introduced and managed and implemented in the right
10:03
Speaker 1: way with the right people on board.
10:06
Speaker 2: I can imagine that that could actually be a benefit
10:10
Speaker 2: when looking at automation when a potential solution is on
10:14
Speaker 2: the table and we're looking at to your point, you know,
10:18
Speaker 2: making sure that the process itself is first optimized, the
10:22
Speaker 2: people or the knowledge about that process, what it entails,
10:26
Speaker 2: you know, all the effort that's being produced, any exceptions
10:29
Speaker 2: to that process. That is all information intellectual capital that
10:34
Speaker 2: exists and resides in those people who have been doing
10:37
Speaker 2: the process for so long, so they're integral to the
10:41
Speaker 2: decision in order to figure out, you know, what that
10:44
Speaker 2: process is and where automation is going to be helpful
10:48
Speaker 2: or useful or valid even I think.
10:52
Speaker 1: Are you finding those conversations, Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's
10:55
Speaker 1: really it's not just a few parties that need to
10:59
Speaker 1: be prevented to these conversations around what makes sense. It's
11:04
Speaker 1: it's a wider view. It's not only operations, but it's
11:07
Speaker 1: it it's hr it's all of the kind of departments
11:10
Speaker 1: that have a play. But it's also okay, we optimize
11:14
Speaker 1: the process, but we also need a view on what
11:16
Speaker 1: is our ambition because there's change, you know, maybe we're
11:21
Speaker 1: acquiring new product, maybe we're going to change the whole
11:24
Speaker 1: size of our product. In the next few years. So
11:28
Speaker 1: we need to also be looking at what things do
11:30
Speaker 1: you want to achieve and what things are you planning
11:33
Speaker 1: to change or what might change to make sure that
11:37
Speaker 1: whatever the solution is is the right one, that's adaptable
11:40
Speaker 1: and flexible enough to be able to cope with that.
11:44
Speaker 1: And the best people to get involved in that other
11:46
Speaker 1: people that are doing to do because they know it,
11:48
Speaker 1: and they know it better than anybody else because they're
11:51
Speaker 1: doing it day to day. So it would be really
11:52
Speaker 1: foolish not to get some input from operations team when
11:56
Speaker 1: assessing anything like any kind of operational change.
12:00
Speaker 2: When it works well, the entire organization is involved, the
12:05
Speaker 2: entire business is present and represented in the decision, and
12:11
Speaker 2: everyone understands how this change is going to affect their
12:14
Speaker 2: area of the business. That's what that's the ideal situation
12:18
Speaker 2: for an automation transformation like this. On the other side,
12:23
Speaker 2: when they're not aligned or when an automation project does
12:28
Speaker 2: not get off the ground, is there some thread that
12:32
Speaker 2: is of similarity between those? Is it lack of understanding
12:37
Speaker 2: of what the organization needs? Is it those poorly executed
12:42
Speaker 2: processes in the first place? What's causing these ambitions for
12:48
Speaker 2: automation to fail.
12:50
Speaker 1: I think it's really important that there's a clear objective
12:54
Speaker 1: as to why automation is being introduced, so that it's
12:59
Speaker 1: very alluring and very exciting to have something that's kind
13:02
Speaker 1: of shiny and new in a sight. But there has
13:04
Speaker 1: to be a reason for it. And I think if
13:07
Speaker 1: there's a reason for it that's built by fact and data,
13:11
Speaker 1: and everybody has agreed to the facts and data which
13:14
Speaker 1: drive that decision, then it's easier for people to get
13:17
Speaker 1: on board, and therefore that kind of discrepancy and disagreement
13:23
Speaker 1: is maybe not there because we've actually we've all gone
13:25
Speaker 1: through the relevant steps and we've all agreed to all
13:28
Speaker 1: of the assumptions and the data that is feeding this decision.
13:32
Speaker 1: It's a lot easier to make a decision when it's
13:35
Speaker 1: based on fact, because it's really hard to disagree with
13:40
Speaker 1: black and white or hard numbers.
13:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, although you know so much in supply
13:46
Speaker 2: chain is not black and white. It's different shades of
13:50
Speaker 2: in between. You know, not every solution is the right solution,
13:54
Speaker 2: and not every application is the right application, so there's
13:58
Speaker 2: a lot of ambiguity there. And yes, I think having
14:01
Speaker 2: that clear black and white yes, no binary of should
14:06
Speaker 2: this happen or should this not?
14:07
Speaker 1: Is it not ready? This is why it's so important
14:10
Speaker 1: to have so many parties involved, because they bring different
14:13
Speaker 1: viewpoints and can you know, if you have one person
14:16
Speaker 1: trying to make such a large decision, they only have
14:19
Speaker 1: their viewpoint and they're only looking at it one dimensionally,
14:22
Speaker 1: Whereas if you've got lots of parties involved, they bring
14:25
Speaker 1: different experiences, different requirements, different thoughts to the process. Which
14:30
Speaker 1: then even if you are making a decision on one criteria,
14:35
Speaker 1: you've had the time to consider all of the other
14:37
Speaker 1: characteristics in criteria which should be considered whether ultimately they
14:42
Speaker 1: enforce the decision or not. They've been discussed and talked about,
14:47
Speaker 1: which is equally as important on that journey of implementation.
14:51
Speaker 2: You know what, that's a really interesting perspective on that,
14:55
Speaker 2: because I know from our point of view. You know,
14:58
Speaker 2: when we work with these copanies on their projects and
15:02
Speaker 2: we come to them and they say i'd like a
15:05
Speaker 2: concept design or i'd like you to help me figure
15:07
Speaker 2: out what we should do here, and then the decision
15:10
Speaker 2: is ultimately nothing, We're not going to do this. This
15:12
Speaker 2: project is canceled. This is tabled. We're not doing that.
15:16
Speaker 1: It's a no.
15:17
Speaker 2: That's not a bad thing.
15:19
Speaker 3: No.
15:20
Speaker 1: No.
15:20
Speaker 2: In a lot of cases, no.
15:22
Speaker 1: And there'll be a reason for why it's a no,
15:25
Speaker 1: because you know, something might have been discovered and it
15:28
Speaker 1: may be that actually automation is not the answer, and
15:32
Speaker 1: it may be that a manual solution or a hybrid
15:35
Speaker 1: solution is actually the best way to optimize the process,
15:41
Speaker 1: because like I said earlier, you know, when you've got
15:44
Speaker 1: a process with fat in it, once you've stripped that away,
15:47
Speaker 1: you're then comparing your return in whichever criteria you compare
15:51
Speaker 1: it to this new, revised baseline rather than where you were.
15:56
Speaker 1: And I think when people kind of strip that away,
15:58
Speaker 1: then they realize, actually, maybe there isn't quite a case
16:02
Speaker 1: for it than we thought. So exactly, do nothing can
16:06
Speaker 1: equally be as good an option as any other.
16:09
Speaker 2: And and that knowledge is something that they can walk
16:11
Speaker 2: away with and really better understand their business and their
16:14
Speaker 2: operation for sure.
16:16
Speaker 1: For sure. I mean, if something comes up from one
16:19
Speaker 1: party which kind of throws a spanner in the works,
16:21
Speaker 1: if you like, but it's an it's a go or
16:24
Speaker 1: no go, then that's a valuable piece of input.
16:28
Speaker 2: One hundred yeah, absolutely. So for any companies or individuals
16:33
Speaker 2: out there right now that are considering automation, they're they're
16:36
Speaker 2: exploring their options, they're looking at where it could fit
16:40
Speaker 2: into their operation. Where should they start? Should they should
16:44
Speaker 2: they start with that that process mapping and really understanding
16:49
Speaker 2: what's happening or you know, is is that something that
16:53
Speaker 2: happens further down?
16:56
Speaker 1: It's I would definitely say to start with the process.
16:58
Speaker 1: So start with what your process is and then look
17:02
Speaker 1: at how it's going to develop for the future. So
17:06
Speaker 1: we're looking and we need to be looking really at
17:08
Speaker 1: kind of five ten year window or bigger things that
17:13
Speaker 1: have a window that has a bigger impact on what
17:16
Speaker 1: might change. So it's looking at the process, is putting
17:21
Speaker 1: some data around it, it's not getting distracted by kind
17:25
Speaker 1: of all the shiny options out there, which is very
17:27
Speaker 1: easy to do. And then it's saying what is the
17:30
Speaker 1: problem that we're actually trying to solve with this automation.
17:34
Speaker 1: So are we trying to reduce headcount? Are we trying
17:38
Speaker 1: to increase service level? Are we trying to increase capacity
17:43
Speaker 1: so that we can then take on additional we can
17:47
Speaker 1: acquire additional business for example. So first is definitely to
17:51
Speaker 1: start with the process, and then it's to think about, actually,
17:54
Speaker 1: this is the future state we want to get to,
17:56
Speaker 1: and then thinking about how do we get there? So
17:59
Speaker 1: what are our steps that we need to enable this
18:04
Speaker 1: kind of implementation roadmap, So it's not kind of now
18:07
Speaker 1: until ten years, it's now ten years and then all
18:11
Speaker 1: of the kind of steps in between that give us
18:13
Speaker 1: those kind of building blocks to get to where we
18:16
Speaker 1: want to be, and considering in that as well, things
18:20
Speaker 1: like flexibility, scalability. What if what I thought at the
18:24
Speaker 1: start is actually not happening. What if we're not going
18:27
Speaker 1: to acquire that amount of business, what if we grow
18:31
Speaker 1: twice as much as we thought, what is our what
18:35
Speaker 1: options do we have? And also kind of bearing that
18:38
Speaker 1: in mind as well when you're picking the automation that
18:41
Speaker 1: you want to use, is what is that flexibility and
18:43
Speaker 1: scalability element of it and how does that impact the
18:48
Speaker 1: solution that you're looking to implement.
18:51
Speaker 2: That's one reason why we push our involvement, and I
18:56
Speaker 2: know it seems it seems counterinto it to hire a
19:01
Speaker 2: middleman a consultant to just to come up with the
19:04
Speaker 2: concept for an automation project because all of these companies.
19:08
Speaker 2: You know, they have an integrator, they have a salesperson
19:10
Speaker 2: who can explain what what capabilities this this particular technology has,
19:15
Speaker 2: or you know, what the return on investment can be,
19:18
Speaker 2: and they they have calculators for all of that and
19:20
Speaker 2: they can figure that out. But they're they're trying to
19:23
Speaker 2: sell their product and they're doing a great job of it.
19:26
Speaker 2: But they're not going to sit down with you and
19:29
Speaker 2: look at that process in depth. They're not going to
19:32
Speaker 2: do the time studies, they're not going to do the
19:34
Speaker 2: labor studies. They're not going to to you know, sit
19:37
Speaker 2: and walk through a plant with you know, on the
19:40
Speaker 2: floor individuals and say, you know, are you following this
19:43
Speaker 2: process exactly or are you making exceptions throughout throughout your shift?
19:49
Speaker 2: And and that's where having that level of let's take
19:55
Speaker 2: a very granular look at your operation is so valuable
19:59
Speaker 2: before or you start talking you know, dollars and and
20:04
Speaker 2: actual you know sizing, does this fit, will this work here?
20:07
Speaker 2: Can we put this here? Do we go AGV or
20:09
Speaker 2: do we do something else? You know, those decisions are
20:12
Speaker 2: so much further down the line that that company, that
20:16
Speaker 2: that technology company actually can't help you figure that out.
20:19
Speaker 2: And organizations often don't have the bandwidth internally to to
20:24
Speaker 2: do all of that work and still operate as normal.
20:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And also it's it's there's a catalog of product,
20:34
Speaker 1: so sometimes a solution has to then be shoehorned into
20:37
Speaker 1: that catalog of you know, I have this, so therefore
20:42
Speaker 1: that's what we'll do. But actually, our clients deserve better
20:45
Speaker 1: than that, and they should have the they should have
20:50
Speaker 1: the option to have what is right for them, what's
20:53
Speaker 1: the optimal thing for them, rather than just kind of
20:56
Speaker 1: something that somebody can provide. Doesn't mean they should.
21:01
Speaker 2: Well, or it doesn't mean that it's the right fit
21:02
Speaker 2: for them, because, as you said, there are so many
21:05
Speaker 2: vendors out there and so many products and variations of
21:09
Speaker 2: those products offered by different companies. So you know, finding
21:12
Speaker 2: that right fit is kind of a needle in a haystack,
21:15
Speaker 2: especially for someone who already has a job to do.
21:17
Speaker 2: They've got their functions, they've got their responsibilities. Sometimes you know,
21:22
Speaker 2: you have a department, a procurement department that can look
21:25
Speaker 2: at those things more closely. But again to your point,
21:29
Speaker 2: looking across the entire organization, getting all of those business
21:32
Speaker 2: units involved to understand the implications of changing something this
21:37
Speaker 2: drastically is a lot more than a lot of companies
21:41
Speaker 2: have the internal bandwidth to take on.
21:44
Speaker 1: The Other part of it is that you know, these
21:47
Speaker 1: projects that are being implemented when whether they're kind of
21:50
Speaker 1: big or smaller in between, they're not projects that come
21:54
Speaker 1: along all the time. They're projects that you wouldn't do
21:57
Speaker 1: every day. So there's a lot of trust that is
22:00
Speaker 1: being put in to a supplier or a vendor to
22:03
Speaker 1: tell the client or the occupier what is the right solution.
22:08
Speaker 1: And I think that's the benefit of having an impartial
22:11
Speaker 1: party is actually that you know, we want to find
22:15
Speaker 1: the right solution for the client. It's not it doesn't
22:19
Speaker 1: matter to us where they source the product from. What
22:22
Speaker 1: matters to us is that the solution is correct, and
22:26
Speaker 1: then we can support the client. Because they're not doing
22:29
Speaker 1: it every day, there's some questions that maybe they wouldn't ask,
22:32
Speaker 1: that maybe they should ask, and that's something that we
22:36
Speaker 1: would be able to help with in terms of kind
22:38
Speaker 1: of advocating for them and being that technical person to say, well,
22:42
Speaker 1: actually that won't work, or I don't believe you know
22:46
Speaker 1: that throughput is achievable based on X, Y and z
22:48
Speaker 1: And it's really important to be able to challenge suppliers
22:52
Speaker 1: as well as have a good conversation with them about
22:55
Speaker 1: what you need. So I think that's also the difference
22:59
Speaker 1: with when you're looking at it through with consultants rather
23:03
Speaker 1: than directly to vendors.
23:05
Speaker 2: You mentioned something a minute ago talking about the customer
23:09
Speaker 2: or the occupier, and so it made me wonder, because
23:12
Speaker 2: I'm not a consultant, I'm not out there doing the
23:15
Speaker 2: project work. Is this different when it is for an
23:19
Speaker 2: owned property or an owned situation versus the three pls,
23:24
Speaker 2: the logistics, the warehousing. You know, companies that rent out
23:30
Speaker 2: the space and they're looking for automation because a client
23:34
Speaker 2: is either asking for it or demands it or is
23:36
Speaker 2: part of their contract. Does this conversation change when it's
23:41
Speaker 2: a third party? Yeah?
23:43
Speaker 1: I mean for us, we work on both sides, right,
23:46
Speaker 1: So we would work with clients who occupy three PR sites,
23:50
Speaker 1: but we also support three pls in their responses to occupiers. So,
23:57
Speaker 1: and there's different criteria depending on which side of the
24:00
Speaker 1: table that you're sat on in the kind of occupy
24:03
Speaker 1: a sense, maybe your or the kind of end client
24:06
Speaker 1: sense if you like, there may be an assessment of
24:09
Speaker 1: should we should we use a three PL at all
24:13
Speaker 1: or should we do it ourselves in some kind of way.
24:17
Speaker 1: So there's that question, and in which case your level
24:20
Speaker 1: of automation may be different because you're it's your business
24:25
Speaker 1: and it's under kind of your financial sheets. But the
24:31
Speaker 1: kind of from a three PL side, it would then be, well,
24:33
Speaker 1: how long are we looking to have this client in
24:36
Speaker 1: for and how long are they going to commit to?
24:38
Speaker 1: And therefore, if they commit to longer, we would likely
24:41
Speaker 1: implement a higher degree of automation if appropriate. Right, But
24:47
Speaker 1: if it's a short term contract, the likelihood would be
24:50
Speaker 1: that it wouldn't. It wouldn't be a kind of a
24:52
Speaker 1: fully automated solution unless they had space in an existing
24:55
Speaker 1: site to put somebody in. But it all has to
24:59
Speaker 1: be the has to be right for the scenario, which
25:02
Speaker 1: is why it's not a kind of clear cut yes,
25:04
Speaker 1: do it, don't do it. It's more of a what
25:07
Speaker 1: do you need? What's the longer term goal? Does it
25:10
Speaker 1: make sense?
25:12
Speaker 2: Now? That's interesting that it's it's a very different perspective,
25:16
Speaker 2: even from that technical aspect, depending on who that end
25:21
Speaker 2: user really is. Yeah, exactly do we see these automated
25:26
Speaker 2: solutions mainly in the distribution and warehousing or are we
25:29
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of automation creeping into manufacturing sites too.
25:33
Speaker 1: There's definitely a lot of manufacturing automation out there. I
25:37
Speaker 1: think for us, predominantly, our focus is on kind of
25:40
Speaker 1: logistics automation and finished goods handling or feeding to and
25:45
Speaker 1: from the line, so kind of raw materials handling, receiving
25:49
Speaker 1: finished goods and storing that in a certain way. But definitely,
25:53
Speaker 1: I would say the kind of experiences that the on
25:58
Speaker 1: the logistics side, it's very rare. I mean, there's a
26:01
Speaker 1: perception that everyone's going for automation, but actually that's where
26:04
Speaker 1: we're seeing this kind of drip feed of implement implementing
26:09
Speaker 1: bits of automation, testing the waters, and it's kind of
26:14
Speaker 1: implementing partial automation and then seeing what the future could
26:18
Speaker 1: look like if there was more to be implemented.
26:21
Speaker 2: So, if there's one thing you want listeners to take
26:23
Speaker 2: away from our conversation today, what would that be?
26:26
Speaker 1: It's a good question. I think the thing for me
26:30
Speaker 1: would be to think about the bigger picture. So think
26:32
Speaker 1: about before automating anything, think about what the process should
26:37
Speaker 1: look like and what changes are expected, and from there
26:40
Speaker 1: you'll you'll open up all kinds of conversations which then
26:43
Speaker 1: allow the solution to kind of become clearer and clearer.
26:47
Speaker 1: It will be muddy, it'll get muddier before it gets clearer.
26:51
Speaker 1: But I think it's not just it's not just automating.
26:55
Speaker 1: It has to have it has to have a purpose,
26:57
Speaker 1: has to be part of a strategy, and it has
26:59
Speaker 1: to make Okay.
27:01
Speaker 2: I like that. So listeners, you need to be you
27:04
Speaker 2: need to have your zoom ready. You need to be
27:06
Speaker 2: able to zoom out to see the whole picture, and
27:08
Speaker 2: then you need to be able to zoom really far
27:10
Speaker 2: in to look at those processes very closely and ensure
27:13
Speaker 2: that they are ideal at the beginning, before any actual
27:18
Speaker 2: conversation about what solution makes sense can be had. Absolutely,
27:24
Speaker 2: automation is absolutely transforming warehousing, but not always in the
27:28
Speaker 2: ways that people expect. It's not just about the technology.
27:32
Speaker 2: It's about making the right decisions at the right time
27:35
Speaker 2: for the right parts of your operation. Because the goal
27:38
Speaker 2: isn't to automate everything, it's to build a supply chain
27:41
Speaker 2: that actually works today and in the future. Thank you
27:45
Speaker 2: so much, Sophie for bringing some clarity to this topic
27:48
Speaker 2: that's often oversimplified.
27:51
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure and we
27:53
Speaker 1: must not wait another seventy seven episodes to do this again.
27:58
Speaker 2: Absolutely, as always to our listeners. If you found this valuable,
28:02
Speaker 2: share it with someone in your network who's navigating these
28:04
Speaker 2: same types of decisions, and hit that subscribe button so
28:07
Speaker 2: you don't miss out on future insights. Thanks for tuning
28:10
Speaker 2: in to Speaking of Supply Chain.
28:16
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