Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 713: Save the Cat! How to Write an Indie Screenplay with Salva Rubio

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IFH 713: Save the Cat! How to Write an Indie Screenplay with Salva Rubio · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Indie
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Film Housse a podcast Episode number seven thirteen. The first draft of anything is
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crap, but it's infinitely better than no draft. Ben armand broadcasting from the
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back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie Film Hustle podcast, where we show
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you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the
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film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to
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another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host,
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Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to
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turn your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today than ever before
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for independent filmmakers to make money with their films from predatory film distributors ripping them
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turn your passion into a profitable career. If you're making a feature film,
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and of course audiobook. If you want to order it, just head over
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to www dot film bizbook dot com. That's film Bizbook dot com. Now,
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guys, it's hard to deny the impact that Blake Schneider's Save the Cat
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book series on Hollywood screenwriting. Rarely does a book change the way screenwriters approach
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story and structure. Well, today's guest is one of Blake Schneider's students.
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His name is Salva Rubio, and he wrote the book Save the Cat Goes
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to the Indies, The Screenwriter's Guide to fifty Films from the Masters, And
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in this episode, Met and Salva go deep into independent film, independent voices,
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and we also break down multiple genres from horror to mystery to the superhero
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story in the independent film, which is not what you think it is and
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so much more so. This is a really great conversation. I can't wait
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to share it with you guys. So without any further ado, please enjoy
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my conversation. Well, Salva Rubio, I'd like to welcome to the show,
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Salva Rubio. How are you doing, Salva, Hi, Hi alexandhi
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to all your viewers and listeners. We're doing fine. Hem Barcelona very cool,
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and I just why I always love technology. I mean, we're literally
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across the world from each other and we're still able to do this. It's
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still I don't take it for granted. I'm old enough to know when this
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was not a thing. Yeah, you know this, This and apocalypse going
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on outside. So they just hope that there is not a solar storm or
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something like that that would wipe everything. But twenty twenty has been crazy so
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far, so why not. It's alien invasion and zombies alien I'd say zombies,
3:29
alienvasion. More people. More people haven't risen up from the bottom yet,
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from the core of the of the of the planet to take over Atlantis
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hasn't risen. I mean there's there's a few things that are yet to be
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done, but we still have two months. We have a couple of months,
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and twenty twenty so far has been exciting. But maybe it needs to
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go with a bank. Oh no, no, no, no excitement,
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no police. We've had enough excitement this year to last us a decade,
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if not too. But we're here to talk about but Save the Cat and
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your book, Save the Cat Goes Goes Indie, and I wanted to bring
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on the show because we've had we've had people on the show before to talk
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about Blake's Blake's world with Save the Cat, his groundbreaking work. But I
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wanted I wanted to bring you on because of the indie aspect of because a
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lot of my listeners are indie filmmakers. So before we get going on that,
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how did you get involved with Save the Cat? Sure? Well,
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I mean it all starts like in two thousand and four. So I finished
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my university degree, which here is listen, and then I decided that I
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wanted to well to work in films somehow, and I found a job in
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a production company which also has a well it was a half production, also
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distribution, also exhibition. It was like the most important indie production company,
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distribution company and so on in Spain. So I started a reading script just
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like so many people. Well, the lackest thing about my job is that
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I could read a lot of big names scripts scripts. I mean, it
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wasn't just like and expect scripts, you know, like people trying to get
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into the industry. We have a share of that. But all of a
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sudden I had a David Cronenberg's screenplay, or maybe a Michael Hanekey screenplay,
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or maybe you know, Danny Boyle screenplay because they were Europe is very common
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to show your screenplay around before the film is answered that you can start getting
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money, you know, because you as as a foreign place and company,
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you can get European money, but it has to be done in advance.
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And it was a funny thing because I was reading this screenplays and wondering how
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the resulting film would be. But then a couple of years later I would
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see that film on the cinemas in the theaters and I would be, you
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know, like wow, from that screenplay to that movie, there's such a
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big distance. But in visual terms. The screenplay was there and that got
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me thinking, you know, like wow, so the screenplay can be a
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classic thing, and then the film can be avant garde thing. And I
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think it was in two thousand, maybe seven, because I have a very
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bad memory, but Blake Snyder came to Spain. Actually he had a gig
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in in London, I think, and he went through Barcelona, and I
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was looking lucky enough to be there with him, to meet him and to
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take his seminar. And that changed my whole view because I realized that there
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was I was an inspiring writer, and I realized there was a method,
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there was a guideline, and there was something that could help me in my
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learning. Very cool. And then can you go over a little bit about
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what Saved the Cat is for people who are not familiar, would Save the
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Cat? Yeah? Sure? See if the Cat is one of the most
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one of the best selling screen rolling books in history. I couldn't say if
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it's the best selling one or not, but it's one of the most important.
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And it came and took the world by surprise. And they mid two
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thousands because they were very good, nice established books. They were all a
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bit serious a bit academic, and Blake he was a comedy writer, and
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he did quite a funny book about screenplay and screenwriting structure, full of interesting,
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funny, even childish terms. But the result was that it was a
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very easy to follow method based on twelve steps, the Blake's Neither Beachheap and
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Well. It became a best seller because for students and also for executives it
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became like a pattern of how a film should feel. And can you go
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over those those twelve beats, the blacks beats and kind of talk about them
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a little bit? Yeah, well, I can try by memory. But
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first of all, you have the opening image. The opening image is the
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bill of the world before the adventure happens. You know, there's a world
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with a systemic problem. We still don't know how to fix it, but
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it's there somewhere. Then we have the setup, which is the moment in
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which we come to meet our main character. It's usually two or three scenes
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watching him or her in his everyday life, just to get to know him
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or her. At this point, there's another beat called the theme stated,
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in which another character, secondary character, maybe a mentor, tells the main
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character the Bretwniest the theme, so you should learn. Then we have the
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catalyst, which is like the inside in incident, you know, have way
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through the first act, something happens that pushes the story forward. And then
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we have something called the debate, which is a few scenes still in the
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first act in which the main character tries to avoid that adventure and things of
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ways to avoid that. But obviously that's not going to happen. He has
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to go the story. So we have a play called the Break into Act
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two, which is that first twist, and we enter act two where we
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have a very long act. As everyone who's trying to write the scrimpos.
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But Blake called the first part of this second act, he called it the
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fun and games, and that is a very important concept because the fun and
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games section is where we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
10:07
and now back to the show. The writer has fun and game. It's
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not any different Townies. If you're telling a horror STORYTN is not going to
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have any fun. But this is the where the poster moments are, where
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the trailer moments are. This is where you show what the people came to
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see. Is what Blake called the promise of the premise. Then we have
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the myth point, which is a very important beat, like a kind of
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a temple holds the picture together, and we have this spectory which the character
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feels. Oh, so this adventure is easier than I thought. I don't
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have to change at all. But then we have the fault defeat, which
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the buddies, the evolved characters, take notice of the hero and start attacking
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him on her. So we churned the second part of act two, and
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we are in what Blake called Bad Guy's Closings, as the name is self
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explaining, as the name says, is where the main character has to become
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a warrior. He has to become someone to defend, depending on which general
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we can be in a horror film and he has to fight the monster.
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He can be in a film about grieving, and he has to confront his
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feelings. Then come three so important bits to finish the second part of the
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second act. Blake used to call them. They are called all is Lost.
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She's like this belly of the whale moment that writers know very well.
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But then he had something called the Dark Knight of the Soul, which is
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a chime for sadness, a time for regret because the main character couldn't change
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or didn't know how to change. And we have what Blake called break into
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a three, which is a moment of illumination, a moment of precision.
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The main character wants to change, but it still doesn't now how to change.
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So we have the actory and the actree. Here's something cool in his
12:18
third book, revised five bits more which I can say, so they're not
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actually it's all we can say, they're actually seventeen. So in Act three
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have the preparation where people main characters and heroes prepare for the duel. Then
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the dual starts. Then at the middle of the duel there's going to be
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a reversal, something that I like to call the it's a trap moment.
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And then we have the dual per Se and Teveness and protagonists. They fight
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each other and the protagonist has some sort of final illumination like lookska Walker here,
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and all the wants say use the force, and then well, usually
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the bad guy is defeated. And then we have the final image, in
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which we use as a mirror. We have the opening image and the glosing
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image, and those should be different. We should see that something has changed
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in that universe. WHOA, that was amazing. It's not about thank you,
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thank you. That off the top of your head, I don't know
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what you're talking about. You don't have good memory. I'm a teacher also,
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so I guess it's kind of my head that I wasn't sure if I
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could pull it off, but it happened. It's hard, it's hard wired.
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It's hard wired. And now you've seen a lot of I'm assuming from
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from writing your book you did a tremendous amount of research watching a ton of
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independent films. What is the biggest mistake you see in independent film? That's
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an interesting question. I mean independent film, as you know, it's a
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universe, a different juniverse, per se. And Okay, my biggest insight
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is this. People usually say that there are two kinds of screenplays. First
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the literary screenplay so to speak, and then the technical screenplay. So one
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is more, like you know, for the screenwriter, and the other one
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is for the director. And I don't believe that. I think you need
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a sales screenplay and a shooting script, right, and those are different because
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many people try to write the film of their dreams, but it's sometimes so
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different so weird, so intense or so amrochi on marketable, marketable, the
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others the word so investors and other kinds of people who must like it,
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they become scared. So I would say, give us a good screenplay clear
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that I can visualize that feels classic, that doesn't feel like two innovatives,
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that doesn't feel like two strange or weird, and then at some point during
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the development process, speaking with people with the money in your pocket, then
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you can realize your vision. Okay, now can we go over I'm going
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to go over a couple of the genres that you that you kind of spoke
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about in your book, which I thought I would love the names of these,
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So that and How to Save a Cat approaches these specific genres. So
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monster in the House. Yeah, well, let me start by saying that
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the generous are really useful. I mean these are an invention. Blake sort
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of invented them. Is what we could call universal storylines, and every story
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fits one of them, so there's like a kind of short talk to understand
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each joy. I mean, normal generous are like westerns, which are movies
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with cowboys usually, or horror movies movies with a monster or so but sometimes
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you have a Western there's a guy with a hat. But it can be
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a horror story, it can be a comedy, it can be you know,
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it's a problem because traditional generous don't tell you the story. They just
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speak about the esthetics. And that is a problem when you need someone to
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picture in their mind or Spreeblay, so the Blake smiled generous. They tell
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the story. Some monster in the house, for example, is usually horror,
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not always horror, but it's usually horror. And what is cool about
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the generous is that Blake realized that for these generous to work, you need
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a few elements, and if those elements are not there, well it's going
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to feel incomplete, you know. So for example, monster in the house,
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as the name says, you have a monster with a supernatural creature.
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You need a house. You need people are locked inside the place. You
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need maybe a mansion, maybe a hospital, or maybe a country like in
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twenty days later, twenty days later, yeah, London, twenty days later.
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Yeah. So then you need a couple of things more like, for
17:26
example, you need a scene. People need to deserve what is happening to
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them. And then you see you have enough elements for a pitch. You
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can refer to horror as a well known genre that can help people understand your
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film. First thing, you can you can throw in the elements that are
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going to make that story original. Like, I know you're writing a slasher
17:56
film. Well we'll know they are all the same, but you can say
18:00
this is a slash yer with this new monster having invented and in this new
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setting there's no one no one has ever done. And I think it's a
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way to focus really soon in those original points you need. Your script needs
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to have its kind of like Alien was obviously a monster in the house,
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but it was the first time that anyone had done it in a space ship
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before. That's it. Yeah, Now the golden fleece, how does that?
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What is that genre? All the golden fleece are basically wrote movies.
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Uh, they basically road movies, and golden fleece is an element in Greek
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mythology. The golden fleece was something like a lamb. I'm not sure if
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it was a lamb. It was a lamb, a lamb like thing.
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Yeah, sa skin, yeah, lam skin. It was magical and it
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could turn anyone into a powerful person. But it was added by a dragon
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in a very distant part of the Mediterranean. You have to physically go there.
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So these are the most basic stories, like in Joseph Campbell's Hero Journey,
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in which a hero has to go somewhere and get something to be happier,
19:18
to be healthier, for his for his community. But this can be
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for example, this great film by David Lynch, this straight story. You
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know, it was about an old man going in a tracture cross America.
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But that's it. This is a road movie after all, so we also
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need a few elements. We need a road, like for example, in
19:48
in The Wizard of Us, the road is what the yellow brick road.
19:52
But in this film I just mentioned we'll be right back after a word from
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our sponsor, and now back to the show, Alice, or in Little
20:07
Miss san Shane is away from Albuquerque to Los Angeles, do you need the
20:14
team? The team is the people that are going with you or that you
20:18
are going to find in the way for somebody. In Little Miss Sunshine is
20:23
the family. But it's important to see that the family of little Miss Sunshine
20:29
and the companions of Dorothy in Wizards of Us the kind of similar One of
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them is the heart, or the one is the brain, or who is
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the will? And so on. And the funny thing about this jenner is
20:42
that you need was called a wrote apple at the end. You need some
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sort of dissolutionment or a deception at the end. Every character that rise to
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the end of the physical journey will find that news, will find that that
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which they were looking for, like, for example, the Wizard of Us.
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I want to go home when you realize that the Wizard of Us is
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a fraud, it's a fake, and well, you cannot go home using
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his power. You need to go home by your own means. And that's
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what this stories are about. Now, Dude with a problem, it's another
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cool one. Yeah, Well, do with a Problem is basically thrillers and
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the action films doing a problem. As you can see, all of these
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have like mythological origin. In fact, in the safety Cap blog we have
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been publishing a few articles about how these generals have the origin in mythological tales
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and in do with a Problem, it could be the Hercules story. He
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was a normal guy. He didn't I think he was especially but all of
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a sign he was tested by the gods. So due with a problem are
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those stories like, for example, die Hard, McLain and Hercules, they're
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the same guy. They are ordinary guys versus extraordinary odds, and well,
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they need to find their own strength and their own power. They need to
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believe in themselves to uh to to defeat the gods themselves. So what that's
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a really intense general So it's a genre like that. A lot of the
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examples you just gave are very big movies, a big big movies. So
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in the indie world are their examples because Due with a problem like die Hard
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for indies is a little rough, though it can be done. I guess
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if you're like in a school somewhere and the school has taken over by terrorists
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and you're the kid, so I'm just writing a story right now and you're
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you're the kid is John McClain. It's basically alone. But on an indie
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budget, are there any examples of like specifically like Due to the Problem or
23:07
The Golden Fleece or Master in the House. Obviously most horror films are monsters
23:11
low budget, but like low budget more indie stuff. Yeah. Sure.
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In the book in Safety Cat goes to the indies, and there's fifty films
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that we go, we analyze and there's ten genders, five films for each
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gender, and all of them are independent. Like for example, let me
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just tell you the five we have in Monster in the House. We have
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twenty eight Days Later. We have The Lives of Others, which won the
23:41
Academy Award for Based Foreign Film. We have the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. We
23:47
have The Yeah and the Blair Witch Project. Of course What's so Cheap?
23:52
You know, a couple of cameras, and then we have Funny Games,
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which again is only one location, and Golden Fleece. We have a Little
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Miss Sunshine. We have Old Brother Rescer boad Ox, the Straight Story,
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which I just mentioned, and the Full Monty. People may see Full Monty.
24:14
That's not a road film. In this cateory, you also have the
24:18
Road to Perfection films in which people get better doing something you know, so
24:26
no so like. So. Another genre that I saw in the book was
24:30
the superhero genre. Now, a lot of people think when they think superhero,
24:33
they think Marvel, they think DC. They think Superman or Spider Man
24:38
or X Men or one of these big budget things. How can you apply
24:41
the superhero genre in the indie world. Well, The funny thing is that
24:48
superheroes existed before the caped superheroes. You know, a superhero in mythical terms,
24:55
it was a different person with special abilities. It could be physical abilities
25:00
like for example, Achilles. He was invulnerable. You know, no one
25:04
could bullets or arrows couldn't hurt him. That's a superhero in my book,
25:10
you know. And he had his own kryptonite, which was the Achilles heel.
25:15
So this kind of characters have been around always enough. There can be
25:25
normal people, so to speak. Their powers may not be evident, their
25:30
powers may not be like flying or having X rays in the rise, but
25:37
charisma can be a superpower, like any politician can tell you, or the
25:42
ability to inspire others. And in our list we have for example, Iren
25:48
Brokovitch. As you remember, it was an injury and it was a film
25:52
by Stephen Solerber and it was a woman that won't. She defeated a big
26:00
company out of her will power and out of her love for other people.
26:03
That is also a superhero. The others we have is a fantastic mister Fox,
26:10
you know how you remember how he became the leader of his pack.
26:15
Literally. We also have a Brazil Hi Terry Gilliam and also the Elephant Man,
26:25
because the super Hero general. My favorite thing about it is that people
26:30
with you know, underdogs and people which are ignored by society, they are
26:37
really powerful because they know how to survive in very harsh environments. Like the
26:41
normal world for you and me is not really dangerous, but for many people
26:47
with this abilities, for example, the normal world is a challenge their wife.
26:51
That's why they are so brave and so abniable. That's why we have
26:55
the Elephant Man, and we have a proper comedy book, Superhero Islas,
27:00
which also will be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now
27:08
back to the show. So it's an indie I'm sure you'll remember it.
27:17
It was The Crow, sure, yeah. And The Crow was it was
27:19
an indy indy production. Uh yeah. And I'm going to be having the
27:25
director of that, uh that film on the show very very soon, Alex
27:30
Broyers. Yeah, he's I'm super excited to have him on the on the
27:33
Indie Film Muscle podcast because I love The Crow and I thought The Crow was
27:38
It's a masterpiece. I mean, obviously it was tragic what happened with Brandon
27:42
Lee and this and all of that. But the movie itself is it's almost
27:48
an anti superhero film. Yeah, I mean, but the comic book was
27:56
great. I mean, if you can read it, it's but also the
28:00
people that are hearing you, they won't realize that, the people that are
28:04
watching these they will realize I'm a middle him. So the Chrome Man the
28:10
middle head film of the nineties. Oh oh yeah, that's soundtracks on Temple
28:15
Pilots, nine Inch Nails. Oh good, good stuff good. I think
28:19
Smashing Pumpkins was on there as well. I think there was a song by
28:22
Smashing Pumpkins. It was amazing. It was a great, great soundtrack.
28:26
It was just at the same time I was in college, so I was
28:27
I was watching that movie and listening to that soundtrack constantly in the nineties.
28:34
But yeah, and then like thinking about superhero as well, like someone like
28:38
Chrlock Holmes, he has a superhero power, which is his intellect. So
28:42
a lot of times the superhero genre, even in the indie world, can
28:47
be someone who's just smarter than everybody else or has this like he's excellent at
28:52
a specific thing that nobody else is. They are high achievers or are their
28:56
abilities in one area is so far beyond everybody else that that's considered a superhero.
29:00
Correct. Correct, Also because most superheroes at some point are rejected by
29:07
society. I mean the lesson in the classic superhero and I'm talking about myth
29:12
especially, the lesson is that many of them will be rejected because they're too
29:18
powerful, because people are envious or their power, or because they inspire people
29:23
so they are dangerous. I mean, like, for example, a film
29:27
like Malcolm X or Gandhi, or films about Czechiba. Those are films about
29:33
political leaders, but they can be told as a superhero story because they have
29:37
that power which is inspiring people and leaving them to freedom, and that is
29:45
dangerous for the bad guys or the establishment. If if it goes against the
29:52
establishment, that's a great I never thought about Gandhi and michaelm X as as
29:57
superheroes. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back
30:07
to the show. But I guess that is a broad definition of what a
30:11
superhero is, which is anybody who has an ability that nobody else has and
30:17
makes them special. Hence superhero. Superhero another genre loved and I'd love to
30:26
hear your take on it. Is when the Full triumphs, which is a
30:30
great indie it could be a great indie genre. Yeah, it's very Indian
30:37
material. I mean, the Full Triumph Fund is another story that has its
30:41
roots in the medical past, but it's good material, especially for comedy,
30:47
because the Full Triumph Fund is basically the story of the Village four I think
30:52
that's the also the name in English, and it's about the character that underdog,
30:57
which everyone just in Norse because Okay, he's sillier. He doesn't see
31:03
the world as the rest of the people or well, I mean, he
31:08
just looks or feels like a full But I love this general because you know,
31:17
most gieris start with a Most stories start with a character which needs to
31:23
change. They need a transformation. So some of them start being like a
31:27
bit let's say, wrong or bad, a bit stupid, a bit evil,
31:33
whatever. They have a flaw and they need to overcome that flaw.
31:37
But fools in films full are mostly well meant and they are mostly good people,
31:45
so they cannot just have a normal arc like other characters that could imply
31:49
for them to become worse. So in this in this general, the kind
31:56
of change we're aiming for his adaptation. They need to adapt to that world
32:01
without losing their inner light, you know, without losing that which makes them
32:08
nice and stession. So like Forrest Gump is a good example of that.
32:14
Like he Forrest Gump doesn't change, but he adapts from when he's a boy
32:17
all the way to the end being a multi millionaire, X Vietnam non Vet
32:23
Medal of Honor winner and all the other majing things that happens. But he
32:29
does adapt to the world, but he never changes. He doesn't get harsher,
32:34
he doesn't change his inner light. Can you give us a couple of
32:37
examples of indies in that genre? Sure? I need to say also that
32:43
the book is called Goes to the Indies, and it also includes European films
32:49
which are technically indies Outaire films in general. So that's why in this category
32:54
will have, for example, the King's Speech, which was a was it
33:00
was a europe It was a European It wasn't a European movie, was it?
33:02
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was very interesting. Yeah,
33:06
but it was independent is a loose term with that because I want the
33:09
Oscar and it looked fantastic. Do you mean that it wasn't. Yeah,
33:15
Oscar, but I think production wise, I mean we were very careful.
33:20
I don't remember the natives, but I think we were very careful to select
33:23
films that would fit independ Okay. Otherwise, well, considering it's not a
33:30
studio project to say the least, and it's definitely an indie story to say
33:34
the least, because that's not something a studio would pick up. They might
33:37
pick it up for distribution after it's made, and I think that's what happened
33:38
with King Speech. Do you have some other examples, Yeah, sure,
33:43
for examples, Life is Beautiful, which also won an Academy Award. Sure,
33:47
it's also it's an Italian film. And also there was a film that
33:53
made huge waves in the past, but it's been like sort of forgotten,
33:58
but it's a great film. It's called The Artists. Oh yeah, the
34:01
one that the one that want the Asker. Yeah, they want the Asker.
34:07
Yeah. It was that black and white film about sound film and silent
34:13
film and how a character have to adapt and or we have a couple more.
34:19
We have Dooging Nights, which is this well the full in the in
34:23
the Poor Industry in the seventies by Al Thamas Anderson. It was a terrific
34:29
film. And we have a special category for our last film, which is
34:36
the Dark fool Is people which are playing for but they want to to take
34:42
advantage of others, and that is much point. Oh yeah, yeah,
34:49
and that's yeah, that's the dark fool Is interesting concept as well. There's
34:52
so many different and in the book you go through all these different movie examples
34:57
which are great, so you really can kind of connect the genre with actual
35:01
films that you can kind of start applying to in your scripts, which bris
35:05
me to my next question. When a screenwriter is working on a screenplay specifically
35:10
aiming it at an independent film market, should they be thinking about budget,
35:15
Should they be thinking about how it's going to get produced, or should they
35:20
just kind of go wild? I think if it's if it's your first film,
35:27
you should have the budget into consideration obviously, because they will trust you.
35:31
If you can make it a cheap film and it works and it looks
35:37
great, it says that you are a good general in this fight. In
35:42
this battle. It says that with very a few elements you can make a
35:46
worthy thing. You know. I think one of a very good film in
35:51
this regard just let me check because some science I forget the names, but
35:55
I'm sure your listen remember Pie. Yeah, the first filmable Darren Aronowski,
36:05
which was grainy and dark and it was so cheap, but that makes it
36:12
so special. There's no film alike. So I think, if you aim
36:16
for what can I do with a little money, how can I make this
36:21
look special? Not maybe great, because some people put all their money in
36:25
trying to make the film look professional. With that saying, make it look
36:30
special, make it look different as a director, and show your identity and
36:37
show us what you can do with what you have. But also I think
36:42
that takes a level of of not only bravery, but also of someone who's
36:47
extremely comfortable on their own skin. Because I know, as when I was
36:52
coming up, you try to emulate other directors. You try to emulate other
36:55
storytellers, other screenwriters, because you're afraid of your own voice. You maybe
37:00
haven't found it yet, you haven't developed it yet, and you're afraid to
37:02
put yourself out there completely holy. But these examples of you that you've talked
37:07
about, many of those screenwriters and directors, like Pie is a fantastic example.
37:14
He was a young director and just came out and did exactly what he
37:17
wanted in a very like there's still no film look that looks like Pie.
37:22
Pie was this grainy, black and white, sixteen millimeter high kinetic energy,
37:30
wonderful story, mysticism in it. It was an amazing introductory film, and
37:37
but it's you could just see the bravery in it. I mean, Reservoir
37:40
talks obviously, it's a great example of that as well. I mean,
37:43
look at Tarantino and his writing and how he shot it and what he did.
37:49
It's it's remarkable. But I think you do need to have a sense
37:53
of comfortable ility as an artist, and I think that goes for any artist
37:57
right in any genre and any any any any craft, whether it's a musician,
38:02
whether it's art, painting, writing. Yeah, I mean sometimes there's
38:07
a temptation to say, well, maybe if I don't do what I like
38:12
and I do what they like, maybe I can have a show that they
38:15
added. But do you know, I think life is very short and sometimes
38:21
you don't get many chances. So I would be happier with shooting the film
38:27
I like and I can be proud of and I can show my family and
38:30
I can say to my friends this is what this is. Sorry, I've
38:34
been meaning to tell for all this time. And if that is the last
38:37
thing and the last film, I should okay. So yeah, but I'm
38:43
proud, you know. But if I just go with what they want,
38:49
I am going to be restless and I'm going to be you know, sort
38:54
of unhappy. Maybe. So some people don't have the choice, and some
39:00
people do good. You know, they shoot something they are higher to shoot,
39:06
and then they go on to make their own staff and that is great
39:08
also. But if I had to choose, I would always choose I'll do
39:13
what I want and then I'll see what they want exactly. And it's it's
39:19
a difficult path regardless as a screenwriters, as a director, especially in the
39:23
D space. Do you have any advice on getting your screenplay, your independent
39:28
film screenplay produced, Anything that you can kind of put in there or presentation
39:34
or whatever, anything that you could do as a writer to help you have
39:37
a better shot of actually getting produced. Well, I mean the world right
39:43
now, as we as we were saying, the world is crazy, but
39:45
it's crazy in a good sense. I grew up, I mean I grew
39:50
up professionally reading all these screenwriting books from the seventies and the eighties and the
39:54
nineties, and they all said the same thing. Will be right back after
40:00
a word from our sponsor, And now back to the show. Write your
40:09
script in this way, and then you print it, and then there's a
40:13
three punch thing, and then you send it with an introduction, and that
40:17
is out. I mean, that is god and not valid anymore. So
40:23
we are writing history. We are finding new ways to do it. So
40:28
I always say, if you have a moral phone in your pocket, shoot
40:32
the film, shoot the down film tomorrow, get your friends and do it,
40:36
and then show it in YouTube or whatever. Because for me right now,
40:40
the difference is not make it that big film that will put you on
40:45
the map, is making a ton of films, shure films, episodes,
40:50
at whatever, get it, get into the industry. Have friends that will
40:55
help you with your films, and you will help them with the films.
41:00
And then this guy knows one guy, and then he puts you in touch.
41:04
And things happen outside your room, and things happen outside home, and
41:09
you need to meet as many people as you can and help them as much
41:14
as you can. And I think that the years start moving. And then
41:19
at some point you have a chance. But if you try to do everything
41:22
by yourself, well that's going to be difficult, very much, very very
41:29
much. Trust me, I've done it myself, so it's not it's it's
41:31
not easy to do. Now. What's up? What's up? What's next
41:35
for you? What are you working on? Yeah? Right now, I
41:39
just finished a new draft of an animation film and doing for It's a good
41:45
production. It's a production company in New York and in Spain, so they
41:52
are trying to build you know, this project animation on young old things less
41:58
we could say that. And also I'm doing a lot of graphic novel stuff,
42:04
which in the US is mostly superheroes and in the comic books and graphic
42:09
novels, but here we have many more generous and if I may say so,
42:16
I just have a graphic novel released in the US by the US Naval
42:22
Institute, and it's Concentration Camps Story. Is a real story about the Spaniards
42:29
that were in Nazi concentration camps, which is something that not many people know,
42:34
and it's about the crazy plan some of the of them have to steal
42:39
pictures of what's happening in the camp and take them out for the world to
42:45
know they did it. It's not really a well known story where it's fascinating.
42:52
So I invite you to read The Photographer at matt Housen. It's called
42:54
by the US Naval Institute. And that's the last thing I really in America.
43:00
Very cool. Now, I'm gonna ask you a few questions. I
43:02
ask all my guests, what are three screenplays every screenwriter should read? Oh
43:08
my god, you know, first name pops in my head always is John
43:13
Cameron. James Cameron. James, Yeah, James, James Cameron. He
43:16
writes so well. So I would say anything by James Cameron, like,
43:22
for example, Aliens, that could be great. Little Miss Sunshine it's he
43:27
didn't, he didn't. He didn't do that one. Oh, James Cameron
43:30
didn't do Aliens. But little Miss Sunshine's another one. Yeah, Yeah,
43:34
that's another one. Okay, Okay. I was gonna say I don't remember
43:36
James Cameron, because that would I would actually watch James Cameron's Little Miss Sunshine.
43:39
That would be amazing. It would be a different film if it probably
43:45
The Cold, Little, Big Dark Night or something, and there'll be some
43:50
sort of three D animal or creature. I always watch the other one.
43:55
Yeah, and probably you know I've been the first Indiana Jones or some films
44:04
like House because they are straight to the point, funny scenes, quick to
44:07
read, and okay, yes they are Hollywood scripts, but why not anyway,
44:16
you know, each year we have we're lucky because the Academy publishes on
44:22
the screenplays and there's a few in this in there. So that's also to
44:27
thank into considerations. And just let me say when one more it's a more
44:34
loved by Michael Haneken because it will break any expectation. It's a sixty seven
44:42
page script that results in a film of one hundred and twenty seven minutes.
44:49
So you know people that say, no, it's one page one minute,
44:52
well not always, not always, that's not that's not a script to look
44:57
at proper formatting. It might, but it does the job. But it
45:01
does the job also because well, yeah, so what advice would you give
45:07
a screenwriter wanting to break into the business today. Let's say, right,
45:13
a ton of stuff. Let's say, don't write one, two, three
45:17
screenplays and things. You're done and your talent is there, and no,
45:22
write one every two months or every three months or every four months. But
45:28
write one, finish another, keep making friends and somehow if you have ten
45:32
screenplays, it's easier to make it that if you have to. And where
45:37
can people find out more about Save the Cat and your book? Well,
45:43
this is a blog Save the Cat dot com and weekly there's articles and new
45:49
beach sheets, so if you're interested, there's a ton of Richard material there.
45:53
And my own website is Salva Rubio dot info just like my name.
46:00
Well there's this stuff I've been polishing lately. Very cool, Saliva Man,
46:06
thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been It was a
46:08
wonderful talking indie Saved the Cat. I'm a fan of Save the Cat.
46:14
I love I talked to everybody, and I talked to all the different kinds
46:16
of story systems and and I just find that they all are going to the
46:22
same place. We're all trying to tell good stories at the end of the
46:25
day. So I do appreciate you coming on man, sharing sharing your knowledge
46:29
with us. Thank you so much, Alex, and thanks for everyone for
46:32
listening. And you know, don't give up, keep writing, keep shooting
46:37
it. I want to thank Saliva for coming on the show and sharing his
46:43
knowledge with the tribe today. Thank you so much, Saliva. If you
46:45
want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, including links
46:50
on how to get the book, head over to the show notes at any
46:52
filmalcil dot com forward slash seven thirteen, and if you have it already,
46:57
please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and leave a good review
47:02
for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank
47:06
you again so much for listening to guys. As always, keep that hustle
47:08
going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk
47:12
too soon. Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at Indie Film
47:16
Hustle dot com. That's I N D I E F I L M h
47:21
ustl dot com.