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Transcript

Behind the Scenes with Joetta Fernando · Called to Serve

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  Hello and welcome. This is called To Serve a
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  podcast. Where we share weekly stories
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  from women who have. Been ordained by the Canadian
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  Baptists of Atlantic Canada. We have spoken.
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  With almost 100 of these pastors, chaplains,
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  missionaries, and community leaders as we learn what it's
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  like to be a woman in ministry. We have a couple more stories to
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  share with you before the end of the year.
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  But today is a special episode of Call to Serve because you'll
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  get a look behind the scenes of our project through my
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  conversation with Joetta Fernando.
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  Joetta is one of our research associates.
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  She joined the team in April of 2024, so she's been working on
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  data analysis and conducting interviews and writing material
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  for our upcoming book. We thought it would be good.
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  For you listeners to get to know the team a little bit more, so
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  here are myself and Joetta. I'm speaking with Joetta
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  Fernando, who is one of our research associates on call to
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  serve. Joetta, where are you located?
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  How did you get connected with ADC?
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  Well, hi Hannah, I'm located in Ontario, just outside of Toronto
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  in the suburbs. There I got connected with ADC.
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  Well, I was looking for a place to continue my formal
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  theological education. I decided on ADC actually
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  because of a blog post that I read and it really resonated
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  with me and it was a very, a very non traditional call into
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  ministry and I, I really resonated with that.
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  So that's how I ended up at ADC and being an online distance
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  student and my specialization it would be a next generation
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  ministry and I am working on an MA thesis that is exploring
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  intergenerational and intercultural ministry and
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  creating spaces of belonging in our in our congregations.
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  And so how did you end up getting involved with Called to
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  Serve? Yeah.
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  So I first became involved with Called to Serve through my
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  course with Doctor Maxwell and I had taken a couple of courses
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  with her and she probably would have noticed my strong interest
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  in women in leadership. And she then invited me to
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  participate in the project. I mean, I've been a a fan of the
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  podcast before that anyways, when she shared it in class.
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  And I've been following along with the stories and I found
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  them really very moving and really rich and meaningful
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  historically, spiritually and pastorally.
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  So I found them to be really significant.
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  My background in before I came to ADC, my background in
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  education and working with children and families with
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  exceptionalities has also kind of primed me and strengthened
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  and strengthened my commitment really to creating spaces of
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  belonging and listening carefully to people's lived
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  experiences. When Doctor Maxwell initially
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  invited me, I I was delighted and really honored to be working
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  to amplify the voices that have not always been heard and
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  haven't been recorded in the past.
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  So what's the scope of your work on the project so far and what
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  research have you engaged in? Yeah, so I, I would say my work
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  is pretty multi dimensional and I get to be involved with
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  different aspects of the research process.
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  So it starts with the interviews and transcribed in the
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  interviews and then reviewing them, and then often times
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  directly working with the women and going through their
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  interviews with them, ensuring accuracy, clarity, and to make
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  sure that their voice is represented well to help prepare
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  the honorarium. And so the logistics stuff of
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  the interviews. And then a large part of my work
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  is really working on the team coding and analyzing the data
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  that we collect from the women's interviews.
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  So that would be really a significant part of my work as a
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  research assistant here. It's involved in identifying the
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  themes across the narratives that we collect.
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  And so some of the themes that we've identified would be the
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  significance of role models, the educational experiences of
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  ordained women, the particular challenges and strengths of
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  African women in ministry as well, and the way women's sense
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  of calling has really contributed to the resilience
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  throughout their journey. And so these themes really help
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  us understand both the diversity and also the common threads that
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  emerge from the stories that we collect.
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  So I'm also very fortunate and very grateful to be contributing
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  to creating a Call to Serve book project, which is coming out
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  this spring. I think it's helping to
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  interpret and present women's stories in a in a different
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  platform and for a broader audience as well.
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  So working on that project, one of my favorite parts is, is
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  writing the reflective questions and the discussion questions
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  that come at the end of the stories.
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  And I really hope that these questions will spark meaningful
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  dialogue in in our churches, in our classrooms and other
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  ministry settings and help those who are are reading and
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  listening engage deeply with the experiences of of these women.
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  And you've also put together at least one paper.
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  Have you done more presentations than I know of?
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  No, we did one paper together, Doctor Maxwell and I, and that
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  would have been the role models, women and women in ministry and
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  the significance of role models that women play and and the
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  imagination of their role, potential role in ministry.
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  Sure. And I I think some of that can
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  be found on the research tab on our website.
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  And then of course, you are leading a support group for
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  those who've been burned by In Vivo.
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  Yes, that's right. I don't say anything negative
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  about that because it is what it is and if it worked it would be
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  like 110% awesome. But.
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  If it worked, this tool would be amazing.
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  Yeah, yeah. If it worked, this tool would be
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  just outstanding. OK, so I'm wondering what
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  impression this work has made on you personally so far, if
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  there's anything that stands out to you from your experience.
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  Yeah. I think for me, what has really
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  struck, struck me the most and has been the most profound is
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  the resilience of these women. Many of them serve in contexts
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  where their authority is questioned, where there are not
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  often structural supports, and where they work in very, very
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  demanding ministry roles, prison chaplaincy, the military, you
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  know, and small rural congregations.
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  So I think for me, listening to these stories has really
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  deepened my appreciation for the emotional and the spiritual
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  courage required to persist in ministry and especially under
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  the conditions of, of gender imbalance and power struggles
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  and, and institutional limitations.
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  So I think also this work has really reminded me about the
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  significance of telling someone your story in the form of
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  pastoral care. So it's really in reinforced why
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  oral history matters to me. It preserves voices that might
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  otherwise remain invisible in official records.
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  I think my hope would be that these interviews really serve as
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  historical archives for sure, as a resource for inspiration and,
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  and then ensuring that women's leadership is documented and
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  accessible for research as well for future students and future
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  generations. And I think also that hearing
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  these stories, it really challenges churches and, and,
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  and our institution to reflect on their own practices because
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  there is, there is good, but there's also there is also the
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  negative. You know, like my experience
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  with the one with the woman who emailed like in the middle of
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  the night, she was like, I spent a lot of time talking to her and
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  she was like, I had a really negative experience.
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  You know, it was really hard for me.
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  And I feel like I have to share only the parts that are good.
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  And I feel like I'm sending the wrong message almost.
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  But at the same time, I can't tell everything that happened.
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  It's, it's hard. So she's like, I'm stuck between
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  this rock and this hard place where I want to share my story,
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  but I almost can't authentically share everything about it.
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  So I feel like, you know, there are a lot of people who say, oh,
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  you know, I had so much support. Everything worked wonderfully
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  and lovely. But at the same time, the women
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  who who, who say that, you know, it didn't go that well for me.
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  It was really hard, you know, I'm no longer there.
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  Like we don't, we don't have. Them we have had some women
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  declined to be interviewed because they're not a part of it
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  anymore. And it I, I respect their choice
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  to do that, but it's unfortunate because that's part of the.
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  Story as well. Yeah, I agree but it's so hard
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  right? Like I understand where they're
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  coming from and why they don't want to share their story.
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  Yeah, and it's such a small world, the CBA see.
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  So even a even an anonymous if they're describing an incident
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  in an anonymous. You know who you are.
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  Exactly. It's unfortunate because
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  sometimes those details really drive home what we're talking
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  about. And we can, you know, you can
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  say in vague terms, these are the challenges we're facing.
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  It's those stories, the specific stories that it's like, Oh my
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  goodness, are you are you kidding me?
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  You know, and, and so some of those things I've got to read
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  and it informs my perspective because we get to go through the
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  transcripts with them. So we know what is being
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  omitted, what maybe can't go into the record or can't go on
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  the podcast. But yeah.
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  So I, I'm grateful for when when the women do in whatever way
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  they share, but they, they do reflect on some of the
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  challenges or the ways that they've disagreed.
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  Yeah. I, I, I, I really think that
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  those are super valuable, as valuable as the, you know, the
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  positive strengths and their resilience.
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  It's like a regret that sometimes I have to respect
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  their wishes. Yeah, I guess.
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  It's like, I really think people need to hear this.
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  But yeah, I think because the women, they often are seeing
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  their challenges through the lens of like, God brought me
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  through these things and it's worked out in spite of all of
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  this. And so, I mean, I could just do
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  reading into it, but I feel like there's a desire not to sort of
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  complain, if you will, because it's like, well, in the end, it
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  didn't matter, you know, and you don't want to be seen as like
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  you've made all this progress, but you're still, you're still
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  stuck on, you know, the way things went bad back then.
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  And it's unfortunate that that's kind of how it can be heard
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  because I think you do need to know how it went back then and
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  how it's still going today. It doesn't mean you're just
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  complaining. You know, like you can, you can
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  say both things. You can say you're grateful and
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  you've had supports and God's brought you through and there
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  were things that didn't need to be that hard.
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  Yeah, this is the awful stuff that happens when people just
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  just ignore stuff, right? Or they do things, I think
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  almost for like a superficial purpose, right.
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  Oh, look how inclusive we are. Look how wonderful we are.
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  Yeah, let's put her on the stage or let's put a picture of her
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  up, right. And it's like.
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  Yeah, I think people do that when they they don't recognize
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  that like the reason diversity is a good thing is because it
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  benefits everybody. And it's not like you're doing,
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  you're not doing someone a favor like you're doing yourself a
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  favor. Yeah, but it's not.
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  I don't think that's how it's perceived it off.
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  No. Yeah, it's funny, you know,
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  somebody said to me, I wish I could write my story after I was
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  dead because then I wouldn't have to worry about about
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  hurting anyone's feelings. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I
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  remember, I, I think I shared that with, with Melody, Like
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  someone said that they wish they could write their story or tell
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  their story after they were dead so they didn't have to hurt
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  anybody like that's. I mean, on the positive side, we
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  have more information than we did before.
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  So we don't have the full picture, but we do have a
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  picture where before there was just silence.
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  Yeah, Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
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  And I think that's what the beauty of this project is.
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  And even with respect to archiving it and having access
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  to it for research purposes, like those voices that are
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  silenced in in podcasts are present in the in in.
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  Yes, there is. More material in the archives,
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  yeah. So the team that we get to work
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  on as well, I think that's that's really significant for
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  me. The collaborative environment
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  between, you know, Hannah and myself and, and Doctor Maxwell,
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  I think has been, has been really wonderful and really, I
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  think inspirational for me as well in my in my education as
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  well as in my ministry work. The imagination that it's
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  provided for me to expand of thinking possibilities of, of
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  where I could see myself next. I think that's super significant
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  for me to be working on a team with with you, Hannah and Doctor
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  Maxwell. It's been really great to work.
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  With you, I tell you, I tell you, Hannah, the way that you
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  put together those transcripts into those podcasts, I, I it's
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  magic. Oh, thank you.
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  Amazing. Yeah, I'm looking forward to
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  our, you know, our events. Hopefully we're scheduling for
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  next fall and we can actually work in the same space.
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  But I've been impressed by how much we are able to work
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  together, given that we're all across the country.
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  Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think it's it's amazing.
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  And I always share with whoever asks me or in any context that I
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  am about history and oral history or leadership about the
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  podcast. And I'm always like, you need to
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  listen to that and you need to share that with other people
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  because it is, it is fantastic. Thank you.
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  Yeah, I'm excited. I think we've got some really
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  good stories out there and we've got some more coming up.
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  Thanks to Joetta for speaking with me.
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  We are a small Canadian project, and your support is truly how
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  other people find these stories. If you've appreciated our work
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  and want others to know about it, please take a moment to
• 13:28
  leave us a review or follow us on social media or share a
• 13:32
  favorite episode with a friend. You can follow us on Facebook
• 13:35
  and Instagram and keep up to date with our latest news and
• 13:38
  upcoming book release at Called to serve.ca.
• 13:42
  We'll be back next week with more stories of ordained women
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  in ministry.