Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / How Ryan Whiteside Went from Poker Websites to Digital Marketing Success | Finance Series

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How Ryan Whiteside Went from Poker Websites to Digital Marketing Success | Finance Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

• 0:04
  Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
• 0:07
  share their experiences so we can learn from their successes
• 0:10
  how they've overcome adversity and explore current challenges
• 0:13
  they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
• 0:18
  the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
• 0:21
  experiences so we can learn from their successes how they've
• 0:24
  overcome adversity and explore current challenges they're
• 0:27
  facing. My name is Anthony Codispotti
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  and this episode is brought to you by my company, Add Back
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• 1:06
  Today's today's show. Our guest is Ryan Whiteside, who
• 1:10
  is the Digital Marketing Director at Two Wheels
• 1:12
  Marketing, a firm based in Columbus, OH that provides
• 1:16
  SEOPPC and paid digital advertising.
• 1:19
  Ryan, I appreciate you making the time to Share your story
• 1:21
  today. Yeah, great to be here.
• 1:24
  So let's start not quite at the beginning, but I see you went to
• 1:29
  Ohio University in Athens from graduation.
• 1:33
  What was that path into digital marketing?
• 1:36
  How did you first get started in the field and what what did your
• 1:39
  path kind of look like to get you to be where you are now, at
• 1:42
  two wheels? Yeah, so.
• 1:45
  I went to College in 2003 and my freshman year I was in like
• 1:52
  multiple majors. I could not figure out what I
• 1:54
  wanted to do with my life. Sounds like a traditional
• 1:58
  college freshman. Yeah, but in my spare time I
• 2:02
  started building websites. So my first start was.
• 2:07
  A poker website. So Parker was, like, very.
• 2:10
  Popular at the time, so I. Created this website that like
• 2:13
  reviewed all the. Poker sites and I earned a
• 2:16
  Commission affiliate program whenever someone would sign up
• 2:21
  for these. Services.
• 2:22
  And made money that way. So that like, that was my first
• 2:25
  intro into making money online. So I was like very addicted to
• 2:29
  that. And you know from there.
• 2:31
  I created multiple websites all throughout college.
• 2:35
  And made a nice side income from that.
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  But my degree was in computer science so I, you know learned a
• 2:44
  program and do all the stuff and I I really did not like it.
• 2:50
  But by the time I. Really figured out that I
• 2:52
  really. Didn't like.
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  It I was like it. Was into my. 3rd or 4th year of
• 2:57
  school. So I was like.
• 2:59
  I'm I might as well just finish because I'm so close to the end,
• 3:02
  but once I got out of school I already knew I did not want to
• 3:07
  be a programmer and do that my entire life.
• 3:11
  But I always had that. Passion of marketing.
• 3:14
  So that's kind of where I started.
• 3:16
  To look for jobs. Was in digital marketing, which
• 3:20
  at the time I I started my career at the One.
• 3:22
  Of the worst times, it was 2. 1008 You know, the economy
• 3:26
  crashed there. Weren't just a lot of SEO or?
• 3:30
  Digital marketing jobs in general, like it was kind of
• 3:33
  starting to become an up and coming thing.
• 3:36
  But. One company finally took a
• 3:38
  chance on me. And you know the.
• 3:41
  Rest is history. So who was that company that
• 3:43
  took a a chance on you? They're not even around anymore.
• 3:47
  It was called web marketing. I was employee seven there and.
• 3:53
  It was. It was a.
• 3:54
  Wild company to start at. I mean I remember like one of
• 3:58
  our first couple months it was Halloween and like instead of
• 4:03
  working for. A day we like.
• 4:05
  Sat around a drink like it was it was a wild time.
• 4:09
  I think we're we're understanding a little bit well
• 4:11
  maybe why they're not still around.
• 4:13
  No, actually that that's not an accurate picture.
• 4:18
  Like they're the two owners were fantastic people some of the.
• 4:22
  Best people I've ever worked with that they're still very,
• 4:26
  very successful. Today and actually the company
• 4:29
  grew from like. 7 to 30 very quickly.
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  And a. Couple of years later we got
• 4:36
  acquired by. A company that was a. 150 people
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  so. Yeah, the the company.
• 4:42
  Itself was success. We just.
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  Just in the. Early days of a start up it was
• 4:47
  just like. You know, a lot of excitement,
• 4:50
  constant change, that type of thing.
• 4:52
  I want to go back to the poker website Commissions because it
• 4:56
  sounds like that's where you get your first bite of the digital
• 4:59
  marketing apple and it and it worked pretty well.
• 5:02
  Can you give us an idea what kind of side income you were
• 5:05
  able to generate from that while you were in college?
• 5:08
  Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, making anywhere between, I mean,
• 5:12
  it wasn't like crazy money, but I mean between 500 and couple
• 5:17
  $1000 a month I was making in college.
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  Which I I? Remember, some friends would
• 5:25
  like work at, you know. The local fast food place.
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  Making like $6.00 an hour and like the money I was making.
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  Was like completely. Passive, like my website was
• 5:37
  just sitting there and I was collecting.
• 5:39
  Checks so like it was, it was. Pretty nice.
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  And, you know, pay paid. For some of the college.
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  Funds. That's awesome.
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  Yeah. I think I was making about $4.00
• 5:52
  an hour when I was in college. So I think maybe that shows a
• 5:56
  little bit of our age difference there.
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  But so I I know with your career, you know, you, so you
• 6:04
  did the computer programming thing in college, you came out,
• 6:06
  you, you got into the digital marketing field.
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  Sounds like you worked at a agencies of variety, different
• 6:12
  sizes. And then in the last, you know,
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  what was it two or three years ago, you've been a part of Two
• 6:19
  Wheels Marketing, which is this small scrappy firm in Columbus,
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  OH. How does that compare to the
• 6:28
  experiences you've had at some of the other organizations?
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  What? What do you prefer about it?
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  What's what's worse about it? Maybe.
• 6:37
  Yeah, so I I I. You know, looking back on my
• 6:40
  career, the times I was the most frustrated were the times where.
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  I had the least. Control over things like,
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  especially the company that was 150.
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  I mean just so much bureaucracy like to get anything done
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  required. Approvals over top of approvals.
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  Etcetera And like those kind of situations I.
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  I just really struggled. With and it was frustrating.
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  So yeah, I I it's. Kind of.
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  I'm kind of the. Realization I've always kind of.
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  Preferred. You know, having more.
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  Control and AT2 wheels. You know, it's very small
• 7:20
  company so you know the thoughts, opinions I have like
• 7:24
  really matter and you know we kind of run with, so yeah.
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  That's something I really liked. Compared to, you know some of
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  the other companies you know on the other side in in theory you
• 7:40
  know a bigger company you may consider.
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  That like a safer job. Where you know like if you lose
• 7:46
  some clients like the company can technically absorb that.
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  But you know what I found? You know with?
• 7:54
  With two wheels is just like we have a very.
• 7:56
  Stable set of clients and you know, we, even though we're not
• 8:02
  a big company, we are able to, you know, sustain even if we a
• 8:06
  few clients drop off. So there's really, there's
• 8:09
  really not a lot of downsides just with the way two wheels
• 8:13
  business structure set up, yeah. You know, I hear this from a lot
• 8:19
  of my entrepreneurial friends who maybe had had some
• 8:23
  experience in corporate environments.
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  And there is this high degree of frustration of the path to a
• 8:31
  solution or to success is relatively clear.
• 8:34
  Like, we need to take these steps here, but there's so much
• 8:38
  red tape, there's so much bureaucracy that it it becomes
• 8:41
  paralyzing and frustrating. You feel like you're beating
• 8:44
  your head against the wall, spending time on things that
• 8:47
  don't really matter. Yeah.
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  And that and that, I mean that kind of applies to clients as
• 8:52
  well. I remember one of our clients
• 8:55
  was this major Health Organization in Columbus.
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  And you know, we. Put together this pitch deck.
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  And like we. Proposed this like.
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  Very creative idea. And you know the the marketing.
• 9:09
  Director we pitched it to. Was like, Oh my God, this is
• 9:11
  fantastic. Like, yeah, we should,
• 9:13
  definitely. Do this like it was an absolute
• 9:15
  no brainer what we were proposing and like there's going
• 9:19
  to be. Clear deliverable, successful
• 9:21
  results and. You know she.
• 9:24
  Had to pitch it to her boss. Then her boss, and then her
• 9:29
  boss, and then four bosses later.
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  Eventually someone was like it's not a good idea and then we end
• 9:35
  up not even doing it, even though it was like, you know, a
• 9:39
  no brainer thing to do. That's so frustrating and that
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  that actually makes me wonder what have you found from your
• 9:46
  experience is sort of your like ideal client, Like maybe the big
• 9:52
  corporate structures like that are appealing on the outside
• 9:56
  because it could be a very valuable contract for you.
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  It could be nice steady work, but having to jump through all
• 10:01
  those hoops to get there it can be a waste of time.
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  Is there Is it like a mid tier to a smaller client that you
• 10:07
  find is a is typically a better fit?
• 10:10
  Yeah, I mean it's definitely not smaller.
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  The better. You know, more medium sized
• 10:16
  companies do have additional funds and they are able.
• 10:19
  To take. More chances.
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  It's not necessarily the size of the business.
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  I guess like the ideal. Clients is where you know the
• 10:30
  worker do is going to make an impact like a big impact like
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  for some clients like whether they're small or medium, it's
• 10:38
  like OK, like what you're doing now is already pretty good.
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  And yeah, we can come in and do like a little bit of
• 10:44
  optimizations here and there, but we're not going to make a
• 10:47
  drastic change, whereas. Some businesses it's like, OK.
• 10:51
  Yeah, what we can do for you. It's going to be like.
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  You'll immediately. See.
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  It's like it. It's.
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  It's definitely going to make an impact.
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  And yeah, I mean it's. Those.
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  Tend to be the most rewarding clients.
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  Where they say a year. From now, like, yeah, we've had
• 11:07
  to hire more people on staff. Because of.
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  You know the work you've been doing, or you know one of the
• 11:15
  recent clients. Like they they literally
• 11:17
  doubled. Their digital marketing revenue
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  from one year to the next and the only difference?
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  Was like we were. Working with them for that.
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  Whole year so. You know, you know, things like
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  that's where we know we can make a big, big impact.
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  Those are like the clients I. I really like working with.
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  And you can probably get a pretty good sense of the ones
• 11:36
  that you'll have the biggest impact on just by going in and
• 11:40
  kind of looking at what they're doing now, what what is the SEO
• 11:43
  structure on their site look like?
• 11:45
  What are the PPC campaigns look like?
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  You can probably, am I right get a pretty good sense pretty
• 11:50
  quickly like, oh, this is somebody we can really move the
• 11:52
  needle for. Yeah, definitely, yeah.
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  Mark, you know, founder of two. Wheels like he'll.
• 11:58
  Send me the website and we'll we'll kind of talk about it.
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  And yeah, I mean there are sometimes where it's like.
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  Yeah, we could take this. Over and you know, we're going
• 12:07
  to do a good job and we're going to give.
• 12:09
  It our best effort. But in reality, like I don't
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  know how much of an impact it can make.
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  And I mean to give a little more specific, like in digital
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  marketing, some of the clients I struggle working with are
• 12:22
  businesses. Where like the businesses.
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  Customers might only be like 50 or 100 people, like their target
• 12:31
  market is like, you know, CEOs of major companies.
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  Like. You know to do digital marketing
• 12:40
  and try to find those 50 or 100 people is a bit challenging
• 12:43
  where like for. Those types of businesses they
• 12:45
  really just need. To find those businesses and
• 12:49
  call them, e-mail them, send them postcards, send them
• 12:52
  letters in the mail. Like it's not necessarily like.
• 12:56
  Running a Facebook ad to those 50 or 100 people like that.
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  Doesn't work very well whereas. You know, like an easier fit for
• 13:05
  digital marketing is like everybody needs us.
• 13:09
  Like everyone needs flat. Like to buy flowers or?
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  Everyone needs a dentist or something like that where
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  there's like a big market. It's easier to target those.
• 13:19
  People and and make a bigger impact when when you have a
• 13:22
  wider audience like that. You want to be able to cast a
• 13:25
  big net rather than trying to throw a line in for a single
• 13:29
  fish. Yeah.
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  Well, I yeah, I mean, I mean you can do, you can do a good job
• 13:35
  with digital marketing if it's not a massive audience.
• 13:38
  But you know it. It's just really hard to.
• 13:41
  Do digital marketing and we've had a few clients where.
• 13:44
  Like, like I said, there's. Literally only 50 to 500 people
• 13:48
  in the entire world that would even be a good fit for this
• 13:52
  business and to do digital marketing on that is can be a
• 13:55
  bit challenging. What is it that sets you guys
• 13:59
  apart from your competition when somebody is coming to you from
• 14:03
  one of your competitors? Why?
• 14:05
  Why are they doing that and why are they more likely to see
• 14:07
  success with you guys? Yeah, we.
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  I mean, we. Definitely have a lot of.
• 14:12
  Clients that are working with another another digital
• 14:15
  marketing company and. They're disgruntled.
• 14:18
  With with the work and yeah, I mean one of our advantages right
• 14:23
  now. Is just we're we're very.
• 14:25
  Lean. Not a lot of.
• 14:26
  Overhead like. You know, I've worked with a lot
• 14:28
  of digital marketing companies, like I said.
• 14:30
  And you know, a lot of times you're your point of contact as
• 14:36
  an account manager, and that account manager doesn't know
• 14:39
  anything about digital marketing.
• 14:41
  And that's like frustrating where you have to talk to the
• 14:43
  account manager. The account manager has to kind
• 14:46
  of try to tell. The people that are actually.
• 14:48
  Doing the work what needs done And there's like
• 14:51
  miscommunications and all kinds of problems and, you know, kind
• 14:56
  of. Similarly like.
• 14:58
  Someone might get. Sold by like a really.
• 15:00
  Great salesperson who again doesn't know anything about
• 15:03
  vision marketing, but they kind of over pitch services and
• 15:07
  promises so you go into, you know, a relationship with like.
• 15:12
  All these. Extremely high, like impossible
• 15:15
  expectations and then when the people actually doing the work
• 15:18
  or in there, they're like, yeah, there's no way we're going to
• 15:20
  be. Able to do this so.
• 15:23
  You know, the the benefit with us is, you know the people
• 15:26
  you're talking to are really the ones and they're doing the.
• 15:29
  Dirty work as well so. It it's going to be clear,
• 15:32
  transparent. Right out of the gates.
• 15:36
  And you know, because we don't have as much overhead as you
• 15:40
  know some other companies, more time is get getting spent doing
• 15:45
  the work that's going to make a difference for you.
• 15:48
  Well, in your company, right, they get to come and they talk
• 15:50
  to the account Rep, the sales Rep, the the the owners, the
• 15:54
  operators, all on the same conversation.
• 15:56
  There aren't those different layers where those conversations
• 15:59
  sort of get lost and this guy promised one thing and it didn't
• 16:03
  get passed on to the other guy, so.
• 16:05
  Exactly. And and yeah, I mean between
• 16:08
  Mark and I, like we've both been in this industry.
• 16:11
  For. 20 years and you know you're getting a very senior
• 16:18
  level person that that that you're working with at all
• 16:21
  times, which you know another. Thing with like bigger agencies
• 16:26
  like. You might be working with a team
• 16:29
  and they might be doing a good job, but one of them leaves and
• 16:34
  then you're working with a different person and that person
• 16:37
  has to relearn the account and maybe they're not as senior
• 16:40
  level as the other person. And you're like, oh, I wish I
• 16:42
  was working with that other person.
• 16:43
  When things are great and you know your account can just get
• 16:47
  passed around by person to person and that there can be a
• 16:51
  lot of disconnect there. Now, most business leaders that
• 16:56
  I meet have at least one, if not multiple stories where they had
• 17:01
  to overcome a big challenge at some point in their career.
• 17:05
  You know, maybe there was a a lawsuit or a firing or a big
• 17:09
  accounting mistake or, you know, something that, that, you know,
• 17:13
  almost really derailed things or maybe did derail things for a
• 17:16
  while. We don't often get to hear so
• 17:18
  much about these stories because people are embarrassed to share.
• 17:21
  But for me, these are some of my favorite conversations because,
• 17:24
  you know, it inspires other people to be resilient in the
• 17:27
  face of their own challenges. What can you think of it in your
• 17:30
  past? It's a, you know, a big
• 17:31
  challenge that maybe you had to overcome.
• 17:34
  Yeah, there was a kind of a lull.
• 17:37
  In the middle of my career was very frustrated and it just kind
• 17:42
  of seemed like I was doing the same thing.
• 17:45
  Year after year. And that went on for.
• 17:48
  Two 2-3 years where I was just like I was.
• 17:52
  I was managing the same team. We were doing the same.
• 17:55
  Stuff, You know, digital. Marketing is always changing,
• 17:59
  but like there wasn't any major things going on, we were still
• 18:03
  kind of doing the same process and.
• 18:06
  That's where I was starting to get kind of frustrated.
• 18:09
  And at the time I was only doing.
• 18:11
  SCO work which was just. One aspect of digital marketing
• 18:14
  where there's multiple aspects and I always wanted to be
• 18:19
  multifaceted. Where I could do SCO?
• 18:22
  I could run Google Ads. I could run.
• 18:24
  Facebook ads I could. Do e-mail marketing etcetera and
• 18:28
  I think with my career it was it was hard to transition because
• 18:33
  you know it. It's hard to start doing.
• 18:35
  Work that you have no experience in whereas you know your
• 18:38
  current. Role like you have.
• 18:40
  Years and years of experience in and you know you have more
• 18:45
  knowledge. There so to be able.
• 18:47
  To finally break free and get to an opportunity where I could do
• 18:53
  multiple aspects it it was. It was a real struggle for a
• 18:57
  couple years but. You know, eventually I did get
• 18:59
  through it. And yeah, now I'm at a point
• 19:03
  where my level of learning is so much more rapid than it used to
• 19:08
  be. Which I feel like there was like
• 19:12
  a Steve Jobs quote. Or something where he's he said
• 19:15
  something along these lines. But yeah, if you're not really
• 19:20
  learning on a daily basis and you're just kind of in a rut
• 19:25
  doing the same things over and over, like don't wait so long
• 19:29
  to, you know, make adjustments to where you're more fulfilled
• 19:34
  and and you're learning. Yeah, I love that.
• 19:39
  It's a message I try to communicate to my kids on a
• 19:41
  regular basis. You know, they they they think
• 19:44
  that at some point they're going to reach, you know, a stage in
• 19:47
  their life where they're they're sort of, they know it all they
• 19:49
  they're done learning. And the the line I like to give
• 19:52
  them all the time is if you're doing it right, you are learning
• 19:55
  something new every day. And so I want to hear a little
• 19:59
  bit more about that stagnant period because, you know, I
• 20:02
  think a lot of people can probably relate to that.
• 20:04
  You know, it's like, you know, it almost feels like Groundhog
• 20:07
  stay. Like, you know, you're getting
• 20:09
  out of bed. You're you're going through the
• 20:10
  same routine, like like you want to shake it up.
• 20:13
  You want to learn, you want to grow.
• 20:15
  And like you pointed out, you were sort of in like a Catch 22
• 20:19
  because you wanted to do something new.
• 20:21
  But how do you get a job in that new thing without having?
• 20:24
  You know, some experience in it. So how did you sort of navigate
• 20:28
  that? How did you get from this place
• 20:30
  of I want to be over here? It's tough to get over here
• 20:34
  without having some experience. How did you cross that route?
• 20:38
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, not every profession can
• 20:41
  do this, but with with our industry, I mean people.
• 20:46
  Take side gigs. It's just kind of like it it
• 20:50
  maybe it's a little more secret at the time but it's it's pretty
• 20:52
  normal to I guess have a full time role but then understand
• 20:57
  that you might be doing a little bit of work on the side and.
• 21:00
  That's how I was. Able to make the transition was
• 21:04
  you know my full time job was doing SEO for company, but you
• 21:09
  know 5-10 hours a. Week I was also.
• 21:13
  Boon lighting side gang with another company and.
• 21:16
  That's where I got you. Know opportunities to start
• 21:20
  running Facebook ads. Get first first hand experience.
• 21:23
  Same thing with Google ads. That way whenever I was at the
• 21:27
  point where I wanted to do another.
• 21:29
  Role it's like, OK, I have, I have.
• 21:32
  Done. This type of work before.
• 21:35
  These are the type of results I got.
• 21:37
  And you know that's kind of kind of the.
• 21:40
  Way I was. Able to transition was to be
• 21:43
  able to actually get experience it just wasn't in.
• 21:46
  The full time role. Got it.
• 21:49
  You took a side gig and you were able to build up a portfolio and
• 21:52
  some experience that you could then kind of leverage and and
• 21:56
  getting some of those new opportunities.
• 21:59
  Another interesting thing that you said is that your level of
• 22:02
  learning is a lot more rapid now than it was before.
• 22:06
  What? What do you credit?
• 22:06
  That to, yeah, I mean being a small team like you know we have
• 22:13
  a set of clients and you know we're everyday trying to figure
• 22:16
  out what's best for the clients and I mean whatever that.
• 22:20
  Is like whatever idea I have. Like, oh, maybe we.
• 22:24
  We should try this. New thing, it's like, hey Mark,
• 22:29
  we should do. This.
• 22:30
  Yeah, I agree. And then we do it.
• 22:31
  So it's like there's. Not a lot of friction from hey,
• 22:36
  I've learned this. Or I have this idea to.
• 22:39
  Let's try it. Let's go.
• 22:41
  Whereas again, like if you're working at a bigger company,
• 22:43
  it's like. OK, I have this idea.
• 22:45
  Well, that's not my department. So someone else has to do it,
• 22:49
  and then maybe they think it's a good idea.
• 22:51
  Maybe they don't. Or yeah, like the.
• 22:55
  Account Manager doesn't want to do it, or the client doesn't
• 22:57
  want to do it. Like there's all kinds of
• 22:59
  possibilities where you don't go from idea to implementation.
• 23:04
  As quickly so that. That's kind of where the
• 23:08
  alerting happens is is in the doing and you know there's a lot
• 23:13
  more action taking in in our current.
• 23:15
  Setup. Got it.
• 23:19
  So we talked a little bit about the sort of the professional
• 23:21
  challenge of getting stuck for a bit.
• 23:24
  What about any personal challenges that you had to
• 23:27
  overcome, that you look back on, maybe had, you know, a formative
• 23:33
  influence on who you are today? You know, for some people it's,
• 23:37
  you know, maybe you know there was a death of a loved one or
• 23:40
  you stuttered or undiagnosed case of dyslexia or any anything
• 23:44
  like that that you know kind of earlier on in your life that you
• 23:48
  think maybe help to shape who you are today.
• 23:52
  Yeah, when you when you first asked that.
• 23:55
  Like as far as like. Things that impacted me was
• 23:58
  probably getting fired a couple times.
• 24:00
  Like, you know, that's not early in life, that's like in my
• 24:05
  career. But like those things really set
• 24:10
  me on a much better path where, you know, getting stagnant, you
• 24:16
  know, working for the same company for many years, getting
• 24:20
  fired because things that were outside of my control primarily
• 24:25
  like they lose a bunch of clients and everything's kind of
• 24:28
  tailspins from there. But yeah, when you get fired and
• 24:34
  you're really scrapping to find your next opportunity.
• 24:37
  You. You.
• 24:37
  Grow thicker skin, you get more, more and different experience.
• 24:44
  Yeah, like. Having that happen twice in my
• 24:48
  career, like really shaped me considerably to where I am
• 24:54
  today. Whereas if if those things which
• 24:56
  seemed like horrible at the time, it didn't happen to me, I
• 24:59
  would not be the person I am today.
• 25:01
  Like I would. Yeah.
• 25:03
  I. Just wouldn't be so, yeah.
• 25:06
  Tell me a little bit more about that.
• 25:08
  What what's it feel like in that moment to to get fired?
• 25:11
  And how does that eventually turn around to be this good
• 25:15
  positive force in your life? Yeah.
• 25:20
  Yeah, the time it happened, it was just completely blindsided.
• 25:25
  Yeah, I'd worked at a company for 8:00.
• 25:26
  Years like I. Never really looked for
• 25:29
  alternative. Jobs just 'cause.
• 25:32
  It's kind of like a loyalty thing, I.
• 25:33
  Guess like I felt like. Hey, you know, even that I have
• 25:38
  all these frustrations with this company, like I'm loyal to these
• 25:41
  people for whatever reason. But then getting.
• 25:45
  Fired. Just kind of like.
• 25:47
  Why? You know, wipe the dust in my
• 25:49
  eyes and realize like, hey, there's greener pastures out
• 25:53
  there and like, immediately, like the next opportunity, I.
• 25:56
  Got. I was like, Oh yeah, there's
• 25:57
  like. So many new and different things
• 26:00
  here and I'm meeting a bunch of different Co workers and.
• 26:04
  Yeah, like, why did I? Spend the last.
• 26:06
  Few years like. In a position that just wasn't
• 26:10
  working for me when I I could have went elsewhere.
• 26:15
  So yeah, it's. It kind of forced you to shake
• 26:18
  up the snow globe in a in a way. Exactly.
• 26:21
  Yep. That's great.
• 26:24
  Any specific books or mentors that have helped to shape your
• 26:30
  professional career? Oh gosh.
• 26:34
  I really got the. Personal development kick my
• 26:38
  around. My senior year of college, I
• 26:40
  even saw one of the. Websites that I.
• 26:43
  Started was a personal development website which went
• 26:46
  away, but I mean I read hundreds of personal development books,
• 26:51
  so anything from like time management to goal setting to
• 26:56
  you know investing all these things.
• 26:59
  So yeah, I've I've definitely went through quite a a book
• 27:08
  journey, but I don't read as as many books now.
• 27:13
  Yeah, I I tend to do more courses, podcast.
• 27:15
  But yeah, I mean, I like my senior.
• 27:21
  Year like a couple books. I can think of.
• 27:23
  We're like thinking grow. Rich for our work week.
• 27:30
  Some of like Brian Tracy's like eat my, eat, eat, eat the.
• 27:35
  Frog or whatever it's called, yeah.
• 27:40
  Richest man of Babylon. Like there there were.
• 27:42
  A lot of books that. Really kind of opened my eyes to
• 27:46
  like. Oh yeah, you can.
• 27:47
  Be a better person and you can you know.
• 27:49
  Learn to use your time more effectively and you know reach
• 27:53
  towards. Like set and reach towards
• 27:55
  goals. Like all these things were like,
• 27:58
  you know, never really learned in school and it was like
• 28:01
  something. That I feel really helped,
• 28:05
  especially as I was. Entering, you know.
• 28:08
  The, the, the real world. And and the workforce?
• 28:11
  Yeah, it's something that I wish that schools were able to do a
• 28:15
  better job of is sort of the making learning fun.
• 28:18
  And I get like they're trying to.
• 28:20
  You know, you've got to have this sort of foundation in
• 28:23
  place, right? You have to know how to read,
• 28:25
  you have to know how to write, You have to know math skills.
• 28:28
  But yeah, for me, it wasn't until later in life when I got
• 28:32
  out of college and I own my own company and I was in a position
• 28:36
  where I needed to learn in order to advance my career and my
• 28:39
  company. And.
• 28:41
  But there was a lot of fun and being able to apply that
• 28:44
  knowledge where I felt like in school I was spending a lot of
• 28:47
  time learning things that were sort of theoretical and it was
• 28:51
  like maybe I would use this someday.
• 28:53
  But I don't know is do you find that as well?
• 28:57
  Like, is it more exciting and motivating for you to sort of
• 29:02
  pick and choose the things that you're interested in, that you
• 29:04
  get to learn more? About, Yeah, yeah, I'm
• 29:08
  definitely, yes. I mean so many.
• 29:13
  People in life like. Once they get.
• 29:14
  Out of school. They, I mean stop learning like
• 29:19
  I know there's like stats. Where like I forgot like 50%
• 29:23
  like at least 50. Percent of people once.
• 29:25
  They graduate. And never read a book again or
• 29:28
  something like that. So don't quote me on that.
• 29:33
  Like look it up on the Internet. And how, how could they even
• 29:35
  come up with that stat? Like that's another sidetrack,
• 29:38
  but I. Remember that was a stat that I
• 29:40
  read at 1:00. Point in time.
• 29:41
  But yeah, I mean, it's yeah, I mean the school systems, I
• 29:48
  guess, like, you know, a. Lot of it is like.
• 29:51
  Wrote memorization and you're learning this.
• 29:54
  Just to pass the test. Where you know the real.
• 29:57
  World's more about like. What can I learn that I can
• 30:01
  apply That's, I mean that's something especially with
• 30:04
  digital marketing like you can really go down the rabbit hole
• 30:08
  of education where you're reading a a million different
• 30:11
  blog posts and doing all this. Stuff.
• 30:14
  But a lot of the learning like comes from being in the weeds
• 30:21
  and like really digging in it and doing the.
• 30:23
  Stuff that's that's where you. Get a lot of the learning, not
• 30:26
  not that like blog posts and courses aren't.
• 30:29
  Valuable, but that. That.
• 30:32
  They can tend to be a trap. With a lot of people is just
• 30:35
  like. Learning, learning, learning,
• 30:36
  learning. But never actually doing, Yeah.
• 30:40
  So you kind of have to make sure that balance is in place.
• 30:47
  What's something you wish you could teach the 20 year old
• 30:50
  version of Ryan? Yeah, I mean, like a constant.
• 30:59
  I guess the constant theme was like, if you're not learning and
• 31:07
  you're kind of stagnant, like it's time for change.
• 31:11
  I'm sure there's a million things I tell my Tell my 20s,
• 31:13
  like so many things about the golf swing.
• 31:16
  I'd be like, come on, man, Like, all you have to do is this.
• 31:19
  It makes it so much. Easier like.
• 31:22
  And so many different subjects. But yeah, I I mean for me, like
• 31:28
  when I'm happiest and most fulfilled is like when I'm on
• 31:33
  regularly learning. And yeah, they were just kind of
• 31:36
  points in my career where, you know, as I mentioned before that
• 31:40
  things are a little bit stagnant.
• 31:42
  Yeah, there is a regular theme that does is coming up here and
• 31:45
  it's one of continuous self improvement and learning, which
• 31:49
  I think is great. What's a challenge that you're
• 31:53
  currently working through in your business?
• 31:58
  So. In with with digital marketing
• 32:02
  agencies, you can kind of go a couple different paths you can.
• 32:09
  Be good. For a lot of different
• 32:10
  industries. Or you can go niche and only
• 32:13
  work for one. Type.
• 32:15
  Of company like only Dennis. Or only flower shops etc.
• 32:20
  And there's kind of pros and cons to both the the pros with
• 32:26
  going super. Niche is like.
• 32:29
  You can become the. Best of that industry.
• 32:31
  And like become very good at servicing that particular type
• 32:34
  of clients and all those types of thing it makes.
• 32:37
  The sales process easier because like.
• 32:40
  Hey, you know we already work with one of the other.
• 32:44
  Businesses just like you. And we have all kinds of these
• 32:47
  testimonials and stuff, and it makes that process easy.
• 32:51
  But the problem with going super niche is it could be economic
• 32:57
  factors, like if all of a sudden people don't want to use this
• 33:01
  service anymore or something to that effect.
• 33:04
  Like, well, OK, you've. Built your entire portfolio on
• 33:08
  one industry, so if that industry gets shaken, you're in
• 33:13
  a lot of trouble. Whereas you know, working with a
• 33:16
  bunch of different types of industries, you're more
• 33:19
  resilient to outside factors and in a way you can.
• 33:25
  Also learn. Faster by working in different
• 33:29
  industries so you can learn something in one industry that
• 33:32
  applies to another industry. Etcetera.
• 33:35
  So I think the. Questions like I forgot where on
• 33:41
  the question but. What's what's a challenge that
• 33:44
  you're currently working? Through in your.
• 33:46
  Business, so you guys trying to like?
• 33:48
  Yeah. So the two challenges past is,
• 33:50
  yeah, we are. Starting to find some?
• 33:52
  Verticals that we're already. Good at.
• 33:54
  It's like we have some. Verticals where we already have.
• 33:57
  A dozen or so clients and the challenge is how can we get more
• 34:03
  of those clients? So specifically flower shops we
• 34:07
  have a lot of. Different flower shops and the
• 34:09
  challenge with that is in. The sales process, so.
• 34:13
  In a lot of industries, you might be able to send emails or
• 34:18
  follow them on LinkedIn or, you know, go in Facebook groups and
• 34:23
  kind of meet them. But with flower shop owners,
• 34:27
  like, what we found is they're they're kind of old school.
• 34:29
  Like they're not as tech savvy. So the challenge being a digital
• 34:34
  marketing company is how can we kind of get in front of these
• 34:38
  people that aren't necessarily digital people.
• 34:42
  And you know, something we're exploring this year is going to
• 34:46
  conferences, sending them postcards and stuff in the mail,
• 34:52
  you know, reaching out via phone.
• 34:54
  So kind of doing offline sales activities even though?
• 34:59
  Like our wheelhouse is all. The things you could do when
• 35:03
  people are are online. What's something fun or
• 35:09
  interesting that most people don't know about you, Ryan?
• 35:12
  Yeah, every time I do an interview and I get this
• 35:16
  question, I I say the same thing.
• 35:18
  So here it goes. Fun fact about me is I have 7
• 35:24
  published novels, so I've written 7 fiction.
• 35:28
  Books. There is like a a couple years
• 35:33
  before. My first son was born.
• 35:35
  Like once my son was born, this killed killed my fiction writing
• 35:39
  career. But yeah, it was in a span.
• 35:43
  Of like about two years. 2 1/2. Years, I wrote.
• 35:47
  Seven fiction novels. Which, Yeah.
• 35:50
  Was pretty cool. Pretty fun at the time.
• 35:52
  Were they kind of all part of a series?
• 35:55
  Was there a a common theme to them?
• 35:57
  Yeah, there were characters, so there were.
• 36:01
  Five of them. Or.
• 36:03
  Four of them were standalone and then there was a.
• 36:05
  Trilogy. So yeah.
• 36:07
  That made-up the Seven. And what's like, Is this like, I
• 36:12
  don't even know comedy? Was this like, murder mystery?
• 36:16
  Like what's? Yeah, they were more thrillers.
• 36:19
  Kind of thriller, thriller, mystery all.
• 36:25
  Of them are kind of in the. Thriller Mystery category which
• 36:29
  is. Kind of like the movies and
• 36:30
  shows and books. That I like to read.
• 36:34
  Or and so were these all like digitally published?
• 36:36
  Did you do any copies? Yeah, I mean, they're on Amazon
• 36:40
  and Barnes and Noble and. Apple.
• 36:45
  And I can buy a physical copy of these books.
• 36:48
  Yeah, I've, yeah, I've got the physical.
• 36:50
  Copies in my basement there's. Probably a box of books.
• 36:55
  And yeah, I've every now and then I'll like hand them out to
• 37:00
  Co workers and. Stuff.
• 37:02
  So yeah, there's physical copies.
• 37:03
  Now my name is Ryan Whiteside, but I used a pen name because
• 37:08
  I'm super cool writer person like that.
• 37:10
  So if you search. Like Ryan, Ryan Wiley was my pen
• 37:15
  name. So if you search Ryan Wiley on
• 37:17
  Amazon, I think I still come up and.
• 37:20
  Search results for. For some of my books so.
• 37:23
  You still get some sales from that.
• 37:25
  Yeah, I got like, yeah, few dollars royalties every year,
• 37:30
  which. Is actually a pain with my
• 37:32
  accountant. Because, like, royalties have to
• 37:34
  be. Classified as something else,
• 37:35
  so. It causes like a.
• 37:37
  Couple extra emails explaining what this income is because it
• 37:40
  has to. Be like.
• 37:42
  I don't know. It's an accounting problem that
• 37:44
  they have to deal with and. What's what's the most
• 37:50
  interesting evolution or innovation that's happening in
• 37:56
  your industry right now? Oh yeah, I mean, like a lot of
• 38:01
  industries like AI, machine learning, you know, make makes a
• 38:06
  huge impact in digital marketing.
• 38:08
  And I mean even. Before like ChatGPT era.
• 38:13
  Like machine learning and. AI It was still a pretty big.
• 38:18
  Part or impact on what we do, I mean.
• 38:21
  Specifically, like, you know, take.
• 38:23
  Facebook ads, for example something.
• 38:26
  Five years ago that we. As digital marketers, it was
• 38:29
  super important was to like find the right interest audiences.
• 38:35
  So if you're trying to think of an example like if you're into
• 38:45
  Catholic books, for example, like in.
• 38:48
  Facebook you used to have. All these targeting options.
• 38:50
  So you would set. People that are interested in
• 38:53
  Catholicism or people that are interested in the Pope or people
• 38:57
  that are interested in? Richard Rohr, which is this very
• 39:01
  popular Catholic author. Like you had to find all these
• 39:04
  like very niche pockets and and mainly type them in, whereas now
• 39:10
  like more and more of Facebook has just like taken away a lot
• 39:14
  of the targeting options that you can type in.
• 39:18
  Because of privacy. And all these reasons, but also
• 39:21
  confidence in their algorithm to where a lot of the time the
• 39:26
  targeting we set is. What we call catch all where
• 39:29
  it's just like Facebook go after.
• 39:32
  Everyone between the age of 21 and 65 and find the audience for
• 39:38
  me. And that's all done by AI and
• 39:41
  machine learning. And you know, what we find is
• 39:45
  like Facebook's algorithm is just really good now at, you
• 39:49
  know, all the information they have already on your.
• 39:54
  Customers, so they. You know, with digital marketing
• 39:58
  you can add. Like a pixel?
• 40:01
  It's called a pixel on your website.
• 40:02
  So they're tracking you so they know everyone that's coming to
• 40:05
  the website. They know if you purchased or
• 40:07
  not. They also know other websites
• 40:09
  you're visiting. So like Facebook.
• 40:12
  And Google, they have like millions of data points on all
• 40:15
  these people and. Because of that, their algorithm
• 40:18
  is very smart, so. Once you say, hey Facebook, find
• 40:22
  this audience who's most likely to.
• 40:24
  Purchase these books. They're.
• 40:26
  Very good at doing that, because.
• 40:27
  They have all those data. Points on people.
• 40:31
  Right. Yeah.
• 40:32
  So it used to be like you were saying, that you had to be
• 40:35
  really good at picking out these individual audiences.
• 40:38
  And but now with the Pixel that tracks everybody, Facebook and
• 40:43
  Google's algorithm is better than choosing those individual
• 40:47
  audiences, which you don't even have the ability to do as much
• 40:50
  anymore. You know, you might have to
• 40:52
  spend a little bit more in AD spend, I believe upfront to to
• 40:56
  be able to help train the Pixel and get some of that data into
• 40:59
  Google and Facebook so that they know the audience that's
• 41:02
  converting. But it's it's it's much more
• 41:04
  effective in the long term. Yeah, yeah.
• 41:07
  And yeah, I mean as far as like digital marketing we just we we
• 41:13
  kind of have to pivot and what we're doing so.
• 41:15
  Whereas before we were. Spending all our time like
• 41:18
  finding those audiences and keywords and stuff, where now we
• 41:22
  have to focus more of our time on other things because of you
• 41:27
  know, some of that's done. For us.
• 41:28
  So if for example, you know that frees us.
• 41:32
  Frees us up to spend more time on talking to the client about
• 41:36
  like what offer they're doing, like hey, maybe we should run
• 41:39
  this promotion during this time or you know, things like that
• 41:46
  where? Maybe.
• 41:48
  Before we wouldn't have had as much time to to be able to do
• 41:52
  those things. Got.
• 41:55
  It Ryan, you mentioned before that a lot of times in digital
• 41:57
  marketing you know you're you've got some side gigs going on.
• 42:01
  Any interesting side gigs or projects that you want to give
• 42:05
  voice to? No, I don't.
• 42:07
  I I really. Don't do as much side gigging as
• 42:10
  I used to. Part of that is just.
• 42:14
  You know my personal life. I've got a 8 year old now and he
• 42:19
  keeps him pretty. Busy whereas you know, pre.
• 42:23
  Evan my my son's name pre Evan, like I used to.
• 42:28
  Wake up at 5:00. And write some fiction books and
• 42:32
  do some side work until like 11:00 on a Saturday or Sunday
• 42:38
  like it was no problem. Like 5 hours of.
• 42:42
  Free time to just, you know do this type of work.
• 42:44
  Whereas now. Like we wake up.
• 42:48
  The same time he wants to play soccer in the basement or go
• 42:52
  outside or something, which which is great, you know, I I
• 42:56
  definitely wouldn't change it so.
• 42:58
  Yeah, as far as like, side work, yeah, it's just.
• 43:01
  Yeah, I I don't do it quite nearly as much as I used to.
• 43:06
  Evan, is your side work now? Exactly.
• 43:09
  Yep. Ryan, I want to be respectful of
• 43:12
  your time, but let people know how can they get in touch with
• 43:15
  you. Yeah, I I don't have a big
• 43:22
  following on Instagram or? Tiktok, although I did dabble
• 43:25
  with Tiktok videos for a little bit.
• 43:27
  Yeah, I mean, you can look me up on LinkedIn, Ryan Whiteside.
• 43:31
  You can connect with me there. Message me or yeah, I mean, if
• 43:37
  you want to learn about digital marketing stuff, yeah, you can
• 43:41
  go to Two Wheels Marketing. I also have a few courses on
• 43:45
  Udemy. If you actually want to learn
• 43:47
  how to do this first hand, you can search for my name on Udemy
• 43:51
  and see some of the courses I've done.
• 43:53
  That's Udemy UD eudemy.com. Well.
• 43:59
  Ryan, thanks for making the time.
• 44:01
  I really appreciate being able to hear your story.
• 44:04
  That's to wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
• 44:07
  podcast. Thanks for learning with me
• 44:09
  today.