Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / UNSOLVED: Tender-Hearted Singer Songwriter' MUTILATED' Walking Dog, Atlanta's Piedmont Park

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UNSOLVED: Tender-Hearted Singer Songwriter' MUTILATED' Walking Dog, Atlanta's Piedmont Park · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Since when did a walk
0:15
Speaker 1: in the park turn into a grizzly murder scene? That's
0:21
Speaker 1: my question. What happened to Katie Janis? I mean, I
0:25
Speaker 1: see Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
0:28
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series XM one eleven.
0:31
Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this Elina No
0:35
Speaker 1: on one to operate A seven off the emergency sir,
0:41
Speaker 1: are you we're freaking to my golf? That's first? Is
0:44
Speaker 1: like a rider help somebody? Yes? Three? All right, yes, man,
0:55
Speaker 1: I'll go spend out for you. Oh my god, all right?
1:01
Speaker 1: Can I get it all? I get your name. You
1:05
Speaker 1: are hearing part of a nine one one call where
1:08
Speaker 1: Emma Clark calls nine one one to say she is
1:11
Speaker 1: at the entrance of Piedmont Park looking for her friend's
1:15
Speaker 1: phone because she couldn't find her. And then she does
1:18
Speaker 1: find her and she's dead. How does a simple walk
1:24
Speaker 1: in the park with your dog end up with you murdered,
1:28
Speaker 1: literally butchered and one of the most famous parks in
1:32
Speaker 1: the city. Again, this is Crime Stories that I want
1:35
Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. I'm wondering what
1:38
Speaker 1: is the delay we are hearing that this case, this
1:41
Speaker 1: gruesome murder of a beautiful young woman, her world before her,
1:46
Speaker 1: has turned into a quote for forensics investigation. Now what
1:51
Speaker 1: does that mean? With me? And i'll star panel to
1:53
Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But before
1:56
Speaker 1: we start, I want you to hear a little more
1:58
Speaker 1: of that nine one one call. Listen, all right, you're
2:14
Speaker 1: the inswerance like ry, please did you see that's my girlfriend? Yes?
2:27
Speaker 1: All right? Please? Oh my god. You seems like she's
2:32
Speaker 1: said dead like it's so far above the call radio. Okay, please,
2:39
Speaker 1: you're hearing more of the nine one one call with me,
2:41
Speaker 1: an all star panel makes sense of what we know
2:42
Speaker 1: right now. But first of all, to Cheryl McCollum, uh,
2:45
Speaker 1: founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. You
2:48
Speaker 1: can find her at Coldcase crimes dot org. Who is
2:51
Speaker 1: Emma Clark calling in on the phone? That is victim's partner, correct,
2:57
Speaker 1: you're right, long time partner and roommate. So she had
3:01
Speaker 1: also seen Katie right before the murders occurred, maybe forty
3:05
Speaker 1: minutes before. Katie had stopped by to see her at
3:08
Speaker 1: work and let her see their dog, Bowie, and she
3:11
Speaker 1: was going to finish her walk while you know, Emma
3:14
Speaker 1: finished her shift at work. So let me understand, Sharyl McCollum,
3:19
Speaker 1: Katy was seen by her roommate just forty minutes before
3:24
Speaker 1: she has found butchered, literally butchered in Piedmont Park. Correct
3:30
Speaker 1: Emma worked as a bartender and a local bar right
3:32
Speaker 1: there at the park. So Katie would walk Bowie to
3:37
Speaker 1: the establishment and they would visit for a few minutes
3:40
Speaker 1: while she was on break, and then while she finished
3:42
Speaker 1: walking the dog another twenty or thirty minutes, Emma would
3:46
Speaker 1: finish up her shift and they would meet back home
3:48
Speaker 1: at the same time. Well, on this particular night, when
3:51
Speaker 1: Emma got home, Katie and Bowie weren't there, so immediately,
3:56
Speaker 1: you know how you would do. You would call and say, hey,
3:58
Speaker 1: you know, where are you at? There was no answer
4:01
Speaker 1: to the cell phone. Then she started texting her hey
4:04
Speaker 1: where are you and steal no response from Katie at all.
4:09
Speaker 1: Also with us Alexis Arrestchak Climb online dot com investigative
4:13
Speaker 1: reporter Alexis I lived on the corner of Piedmont Park
4:18
Speaker 1: for years and years and years when I was prosecuting
4:21
Speaker 1: an inner city Atlanta, and it's beautiful, It's huge. It's
4:27
Speaker 1: the centerpiece of downtown. It's like Central Park is to Manhattan,
4:33
Speaker 1: Piedmont Park is to Atlanta. What can you tell us
4:37
Speaker 1: about the area where she was? Alexis When Emma first
4:42
Speaker 1: entered the park looking for her, she found the dog first.
4:47
Speaker 1: But this is there's a street that goes through it,
4:50
Speaker 1: so she thought that the dog had perhaps been hit
4:53
Speaker 1: by a car and so. But the dog was off
4:55
Speaker 1: to the side. But then it was about one hundred
4:59
Speaker 1: feet away or so is where she saw Katie and
5:03
Speaker 1: she it was a leafy grass I'm sorry, not leafy,
5:06
Speaker 1: but but a grassy area. Petmont Park is. You know,
5:08
Speaker 1: there's lots of trees, there's parks, there's paths to walk through,
5:11
Speaker 1: like any park. But there's also a road that goes
5:13
Speaker 1: through it. You know, it's a huge jogging area. It's wooded,
5:18
Speaker 1: it's hundreds of acres. It's beautiful. It's surrounded by streets
5:25
Speaker 1: and red lights. Cheryl McCollum, I'm thinking about it. You've
5:31
Speaker 1: got volleyball being played out there. People play football, they
5:36
Speaker 1: play you know, they throw frisbees, people walk their dogs.
5:39
Speaker 1: It's a huge dog walking place because everybody in midtown,
5:44
Speaker 1: they're all mostly in apartments or old Antebellum homes that
5:49
Speaker 1: have been divided into apartments, so they don't have a
5:52
Speaker 1: lot of place to space to walk their dog, so
5:55
Speaker 1: they go to Petmont Park, which is why I believe
5:58
Speaker 1: Katie was there, And interesting where she was was very
6:03
Speaker 1: close to a straight intersection with a red light. Take
6:07
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at eleven Alive. They are
6:11
Speaker 1: describing this as a gruesome scene. We did just see
6:14
Speaker 1: the medical examiner leave this area of Petemont Park. Some
6:18
Speaker 1: police were still here right now. This is the corner
6:21
Speaker 1: of tenth Street and Charles Allen Drive, right at the
6:24
Speaker 1: entrance into the park. Here. Police say she was found
6:27
Speaker 1: about one hundred yards into the park. We're told another
6:30
Speaker 1: person in the park found the body and called nine
6:32
Speaker 1: to one around one o'clock this morning. This is what
6:36
Speaker 1: the scene has looked like all morning. APD has this
6:38
Speaker 1: part of the park blocked off and say they will
6:41
Speaker 1: be here for several more hours. Investigators say they're hoping
6:44
Speaker 1: once the sun comes up they'll be able to canvas
6:47
Speaker 1: the scene better, but they are describing this again as
6:50
Speaker 1: a very gruesome scene. Straight out to Dale Carson, high
6:53
Speaker 1: profile lawyer joining us out of Jackson vill, a former
6:56
Speaker 1: FBI agent, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. You can find
7:00
Speaker 1: him at Dale Carson Law dot com. Dale explained why
7:04
Speaker 1: it was so difficult to process this scene outdoors at night,
7:09
Speaker 1: people milling by. Well, you've just identified the primary reason,
7:13
Speaker 1: which is it's night, people are milling by. You have
7:17
Speaker 1: no idea where the actual crime scene is. You know
7:21
Speaker 1: where the body came to final rest, but you don't
7:24
Speaker 1: know where the assault actually occurred. And the only way
7:27
Speaker 1: to determine that is to find out where the blood
7:30
Speaker 1: began and ended. And so you don't know that. You've
7:34
Speaker 1: got to cordon off the entire area and wait for
7:37
Speaker 1: sunlight to appear so you can actually find out where
7:41
Speaker 1: the crime scene is. It may be really broad instead
7:45
Speaker 1: of very narrow. And not only that, Cheryl McCullum, you
7:48
Speaker 1: have the issue of contamination because people are milling around.
7:54
Speaker 1: It's in a public spot, there's dirt, grass, other people
7:59
Speaker 1: have been in there trumping around. How do you know
8:02
Speaker 1: any DNA you might find it's connected to this case.
8:05
Speaker 1: I remember a triple homicide I had, Cheryl, and the
8:11
Speaker 1: murder location was on a playground at about eleven pm
8:15
Speaker 1: on a Sunday night in a housing project, and there
8:20
Speaker 1: had been literally hundreds of people in the playground that day.
8:24
Speaker 1: There were hypodermic needles out there, glassing bags, used condoms,
8:30
Speaker 1: broken glass. Very difficult crime scene to process, and not
8:36
Speaker 1: that I think that there are glassing bags and hypodermic
8:39
Speaker 1: needles here, but still you have a lot of challenges
8:43
Speaker 1: and processing this scene you do. And you also have
8:46
Speaker 1: to keep in mind that Emma and checked her pulse
8:49
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, and so of course by
8:51
Speaker 1: her checking her pulse, her DNA may be on her.
8:54
Speaker 1: To your point, because you and I have worked many
8:57
Speaker 1: many scenes where a victim could have fallen on something
9:01
Speaker 1: that wasn't associated with this crime at all. But in
9:03
Speaker 1: the beginning we don't know that. So any cigarette, but
9:06
Speaker 1: any hypodermic needle, anything that's in or around that scene,
9:11
Speaker 1: we're obviously going to take it. And then later you know,
9:15
Speaker 1: piece together what's included in this particular event and what's
9:18
Speaker 1: not gonna make it very very hard. And again I've
9:23
Speaker 1: talked about this before. Do you remember, of course, Ryl
9:26
Speaker 1: McCollum the Fulton County Courthouse shooting where there were multiple
9:29
Speaker 1: victims absolutely by a perp who overpowered a female sheriff
9:33
Speaker 1: on the elevator even though she was armed, came out,
9:37
Speaker 1: guns a blazing gun down. Our friend that we used
9:40
Speaker 1: to play softball with. Judge Rowland bonds, a sheriff, a
9:46
Speaker 1: beloved court reporter, goes on and on, and I remember,
9:50
Speaker 1: as you do, our friend Al Dixon, who worked with
9:53
Speaker 1: me in the DA's office processing the scene of his
9:56
Speaker 1: friends right murders, and how long that took. And just
10:01
Speaker 1: think that was an enclosed area that was in a courtroom. Now,
10:05
Speaker 1: can't imagine that being out in the open, trying to
10:09
Speaker 1: get blood off the dirt and off the grass. It's
10:14
Speaker 1: not easy. Now, earlier you heard Alexis Terreschuk state that
10:19
Speaker 1: the friend Emma came up and saw there, saw the
10:24
Speaker 1: dog lying there, and thought the dog had been run
10:28
Speaker 1: over and hit because there is a street surrounding the
10:31
Speaker 1: park all the way around it. Take a listen to
10:33
Speaker 1: our friend, Haley Mason, CBS forty six. Now we know
10:36
Speaker 1: why she thought that. Atlanta Police are asking you to
10:38
Speaker 1: take a close look at this picture of Katherine John's.
10:42
Speaker 1: She was last seen walking her dog late last night
10:44
Speaker 1: near Piedmont Park in Midtown. We're just asking any one
10:48
Speaker 1: if they saw her dnything to call nine one one,
10:52
Speaker 1: call Craft Stop presention. Shortly after one o'clock this morning,
10:55
Speaker 1: she was found brutally stabbed to death inside Peedemont Park.
10:58
Speaker 1: Her dog was also killed. Obviously, I'm extremely saddened, shaken up.
11:03
Speaker 1: I mean, being in the same age range, living in
11:05
Speaker 1: the same area, also having a dog. Several joggers today
11:09
Speaker 1: telling me they're on edge, and one answers, I really
11:12
Speaker 1: hope that they find the person and you know, figure
11:15
Speaker 1: out of security around the area. All of us would
11:17
Speaker 1: like to know is this a random act? Was there
11:19
Speaker 1: you know, as someone targeted? I mean, it would just
11:21
Speaker 1: help this for us to have peace of mind and
11:24
Speaker 1: have an idea of the threat level and the safety
11:38
Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace, what does it mean that
11:42
Speaker 1: no other similar attack has occurred since Katie Janis was
11:46
Speaker 1: murdered in such a horrible way. I mean, let me
11:51
Speaker 1: ask you, Alexis to Rustchuck, how many times was she
11:55
Speaker 1: stabbed or do we even know? According to the autopsy
11:58
Speaker 1: report that The Corner published, it was she was stabbed
12:01
Speaker 1: over fifty times, multiple times in her head and her
12:05
Speaker 1: chest and her torso just over fifty times in and
12:09
Speaker 1: out all it, you know, in her back and in
12:11
Speaker 1: the front of her chest, in her head. And there
12:15
Speaker 1: have been some reports that, in fact that there was
12:17
Speaker 1: a word carved in her chest and it was and
12:20
Speaker 1: it spelled out fat fat. I'm just taking that in well.
12:25
Speaker 1: I find that hard to leave, Nancy, this is del Carson.
12:29
Speaker 1: I find that really hard to believe. To begin with.
12:32
Speaker 1: Clearly someone had an extreme animous toward the victim, because
12:38
Speaker 1: facial strikes and the number of stabs tends to indicate
12:42
Speaker 1: a familiarity and a hostility toward that individual. And if
12:48
Speaker 1: stab fifty times, you could spell almost anything out on
12:53
Speaker 1: the body. It depends on how deep the cuts were
12:56
Speaker 1: as to whether or not the individual had the intent
12:58
Speaker 1: to spell out a word or whether this is just hyperbole.
13:02
Speaker 1: You know. Doctor Kendall Crowns is joining me, the chief
13:05
Speaker 1: medical Examiner for Tarrance County. That's Fort Worth Lecturer, University
13:10
Speaker 1: Texas and Texas A and M University of Texas Medical Branch,
13:14
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Now,
13:18
Speaker 1: before I go to you with the question, doctor Crowns,
13:20
Speaker 1: let me clarify, Dell Carson, I understand you are a JD,
13:25
Speaker 1: not an MD. Is that correct? That would be entirely correct. Okay,
13:29
Speaker 1: Not that I would ever say zip it, shut your
13:33
Speaker 1: piehole or keep your thoughts to yourself when it comes
13:36
Speaker 1: to medical opinions, because I would never be so rude.
13:40
Speaker 1: But doctor Kendall Crowns, you have Dell Carson telling you
13:45
Speaker 1: that the medical examiner must be wrong in the mentioning
13:50
Speaker 1: of fat being carved on her chest. Although I think
13:57
Speaker 1: del Carson actually has a really good point with fifty
14:01
Speaker 1: stab wounds to the chest and the face, which is
14:05
Speaker 1: really bizarre. I'm going to bring in our shrink gear
14:07
Speaker 1: and stark on that. How could you make that out
14:10
Speaker 1: that someone had actually etched the word fat fat onto
14:16
Speaker 1: her chest? How could you make that out amainst so
14:21
Speaker 1: many stab wounds? The point del Carson made is well taken,
14:25
Speaker 1: But is there a way to decide for that, doctor Crowns.
14:29
Speaker 1: So my opinion would be the fact that, yes, I mean,
14:33
Speaker 1: I'll due respect of mister Carson, the amount of stab
14:36
Speaker 1: wounds could be, it could be something personal, or it
14:40
Speaker 1: could be associated with what I can only see with
14:42
Speaker 1: the multiple over kill cases is methamphetamine. I usually run
14:47
Speaker 1: someone's on methamphetamine. They do a lot of crazy stuff.
14:51
Speaker 1: As far as the spelling out of words, it would
14:55
Speaker 1: be hard to stab someone in enough of a pattern
15:00
Speaker 1: to make it look like someone like you spelled out
15:03
Speaker 1: of work. The description of the injuries on the body
15:07
Speaker 1: to the abdomen where the fat is spelled out are
15:13
Speaker 1: large in size wounds or slashing wounds, and there's there's
15:17
Speaker 1: not a lot of other injuries in the area. So
15:21
Speaker 1: to me, I've seen words spelled out on bodies before,
15:26
Speaker 1: and it's usually well, I'm going to say, it's always purposeful,
15:30
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't say you could get enough of a
15:34
Speaker 1: randomness to spell out fat on a body if you
15:37
Speaker 1: were just splashing the person up. But to me, it's
15:41
Speaker 1: probably purposeful because the inside wounds themselves intersecting like they
15:47
Speaker 1: are making an F and A and a T. I
15:50
Speaker 1: think that is something purposeful. According to what we have learned,
15:55
Speaker 1: Chryl McCollum, she had wounds in the shape of the
15:57
Speaker 1: letter's FA, A medal and T. FA is on the
16:05
Speaker 1: middle and right side of her lower chest, an upper
16:08
Speaker 1: abdomen and T is on the left side of her
16:14
Speaker 1: lower chest. Correct, Nancy, you and I have seen thousands
16:19
Speaker 1: of stab injuries, thousands. Never have you thought you saw
16:24
Speaker 1: a word that wasn't deliberate. Never, So when you're talking
16:29
Speaker 1: about stabbing somebody fifty times in the face, in the neck,
16:33
Speaker 1: in the torso, in her hands. She had defensive wounds
16:36
Speaker 1: as well. But the most critical for me about those
16:41
Speaker 1: three letters is she was hemburging when it happened. She
16:45
Speaker 1: was bleeding, which means she was still alive when that occurred.
16:50
Speaker 1: I like to talk to you Del Carson for a reason.
16:54
Speaker 1: Very often I agree with you, and you have insights indicases.
16:58
Speaker 1: Especially remember when you were commenting on the Gabby Petito
17:01
Speaker 1: Brian laundry case. He came out as incredible ideas that
17:05
Speaker 1: nobody else had had. But the way you're talking about this,
17:09
Speaker 1: I've got to disagree with you because you're making it
17:12
Speaker 1: seem as if you know how you'll look up at
17:14
Speaker 1: the sky and you go, oh, that looks like a
17:15
Speaker 1: French poodle. You're saying there's no way that a medical
17:20
Speaker 1: examiner could look at all of these stab wounds and
17:24
Speaker 1: see the letter's fat. You're acting like, oh, that is
17:30
Speaker 1: a random pattern amidst all these stab wounds. They just
17:34
Speaker 1: happen to spell the word fat, and I disagree with you.
17:38
Speaker 1: I mean they clearly could see f A and then
17:42
Speaker 1: over here t and as Cheryl McCollum correctly points out,
17:46
Speaker 1: this was done while she's still bleeding, which means she
17:51
Speaker 1: was alive. Well, I don't have access to the photographs.
17:55
Speaker 1: I don't have access to the depth of those cuts
17:58
Speaker 1: that allegedly spill up. And clearly, if that's the case
18:02
Speaker 1: and she was obese, then somebody has some direct personal knowledge.
18:07
Speaker 1: I'm looking right at her. This is the weird part,
18:09
Speaker 1: Dell Carson. I'm looking at her right now. I'm looking
18:14
Speaker 1: at the particular picture of her entering Pedemont Park holding
18:20
Speaker 1: the dog, which I'm going to circle back home because
18:22
Speaker 1: this person stabbed the dog dead too. That's why Emma
18:27
Speaker 1: thought the dog had been run over when she was
18:29
Speaker 1: trying to retrace her roommates steps. I'm looking at her
18:32
Speaker 1: walking into the park with a dog on a leash
18:36
Speaker 1: in her left hand. She's not fat. She looks perfectly normal.
18:41
Speaker 1: She weighed one hundred according to the autopsy. Yeah, she
18:45
Speaker 1: doesn't look fat at all. You're making the assumption that
18:48
Speaker 1: it's they're calling her fat. It could be also initials,
18:52
Speaker 1: like someone saying their words. Joys have to consider that
18:55
Speaker 1: as well. But then you would expect the repetition of
18:58
Speaker 1: this at some other point and a connection between those
19:01
Speaker 1: killings and this one, And we don't have that scesarily,
19:04
Speaker 1: not that scessarily. Maybe this is the first one or
19:07
Speaker 1: maybe this one in particularly felt like where she felt
19:11
Speaker 1: like signing. It hasn't no rhyme or reason, especially if
19:14
Speaker 1: you throw invest them. So to me, there's never any
19:17
Speaker 1: rhyme or reason to anything else. Yeah, I want to
19:19
Speaker 1: support that, Nancy. Okay, Yeah, Karen Stark, I was going
19:22
Speaker 1: to circle back to you about why did you have
19:24
Speaker 1: to stab the dog dead? Too? But I mean Carson
19:28
Speaker 1: and Crowns have a really good point with me. Is
19:31
Speaker 1: Karen Start New York Psychologists. You can find her at
19:34
Speaker 1: Karen starting dot com. Karen with the Sea, renowned in
19:37
Speaker 1: her field, joining us from Manhattan, Karen Start, let's start
19:40
Speaker 1: with forget about the dog for right now. We'll circle
19:44
Speaker 1: back to the dog. But what what is he saying,
19:49
Speaker 1: Karen Start? The killer wanted to sign his work like
19:53
Speaker 1: what Banksy? I don't think these are anybody's initials, Although
19:58
Speaker 1: none of it makes sense Nancy, which really leads me
20:01
Speaker 1: to believe that that analysis of someone on drugs. I
20:05
Speaker 1: don't know if I agree with you guys about drugs.
20:08
Speaker 1: Jackie's saying no, and I say no, because if you're
20:12
Speaker 1: that high on math, how are you going to chase
20:14
Speaker 1: down a dog? Number one? But that said, what about
20:17
Speaker 1: Jody Aris Travis Alexander's stabbed twenty eight times I believe
20:21
Speaker 1: and shot in the head. She wasn't on math. She's
20:24
Speaker 1: just mean, pure evil. So I don't know that this
20:28
Speaker 1: necessarily means somebody's on math. I normally would agree with you,
20:31
Speaker 1: because that is real anger when you see somebody who's
20:35
Speaker 1: stabbing like that. But there's there's an aspect of this
20:39
Speaker 1: that sounds like somebody was randomly. It doesn't sound to
20:44
Speaker 1: me personally that they were after her. Why would they
20:48
Speaker 1: want to kill the dog The dog's on a leash.
20:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I just get this image of
20:54
Speaker 1: someone out of their mind furiously like fabbing. Okay, so
20:58
Speaker 1: this is a math freak. How can they haven't been
21:00
Speaker 1: caught yet? I mean, they're not that smart. They call
21:04
Speaker 1: them meth heads for a reason. They're out of their minds.
21:09
Speaker 1: How can a meth head elude the cops jump in, Carson,
21:13
Speaker 1: I agree with you, this is nobody's initials. I disagree
21:16
Speaker 1: with you that it's not really the word. The letter's fat.
21:19
Speaker 1: Go ahead. There are two points here. One is that
21:22
Speaker 1: there seemed to be a cutting of the woman before
21:26
Speaker 1: all of this as a body mutilation, which indicates that
21:32
Speaker 1: she has some extreme trauma, perhaps in her past, and
21:36
Speaker 1: that may be connected to the killer. So when you
21:39
Speaker 1: find that on a victim's body and you find old scarring,
21:44
Speaker 1: that's a clue. And the second thing about this is
21:47
Speaker 1: both her breasts were cut. That's another indication of a
21:52
Speaker 1: sexual involvement or an individual who has some bent towards
21:58
Speaker 1: sexual proclivities an evil way. Okay, Alexis, trust Chuck. I
22:04
Speaker 1: know you said torso, but you didn't specifically say she
22:08
Speaker 1: was stabbed in her breasts, well her breasts, her in
22:10
Speaker 1: her torso. So, Yes, she was, she was. Okay, here's
22:14
Speaker 1: another one to me, MD. I'm just gonna jump on
22:16
Speaker 1: the bandwagon too and start prescribing medication. But you know what, Alexis,
22:21
Speaker 1: You're right, You're absolutely right, You're you're correct. So to
22:25
Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns, Alexis and del Carson, are right, she
22:30
Speaker 1: stabbed everywhere. Would you say that the stab was to
22:34
Speaker 1: the breast breasts indicate some type of a sexual sadism?
22:41
Speaker 1: It could the prom is with all the amount of sabbs.
22:47
Speaker 1: It's just part of a cluster of finding Looking at
22:51
Speaker 1: what the descriptions are one to three, three and one
22:56
Speaker 1: in size to the left breast and five sixteen wounded
23:00
Speaker 1: the ariiola of the left breath. So it's you've got
23:04
Speaker 1: some fairly small wools. It's not like they were cutting
23:07
Speaker 1: the breasts off. So usually when I've seen sexual mutilation
23:12
Speaker 1: they either cutty ariolas or nipples off as well as
23:16
Speaker 1: cutting the entire breasts off. To me, this just looks
23:19
Speaker 1: like it's part of the cluster of the slashings and
23:24
Speaker 1: stabbing that's going on. Nancy, I got I gotta jump
23:27
Speaker 1: in what I feel free to jump? I gotta ask
23:30
Speaker 1: Crows a question you know that just rolled off the
23:33
Speaker 1: tip of your tongue, about how cutting off breasts and
23:37
Speaker 1: cutting off nipples do you when you go home? What
23:41
Speaker 1: do you do? I'm just curious, how do you get
23:44
Speaker 1: all that out of your head? Or do you? Well?
23:46
Speaker 1: I go home my garden. I swim. I spend time
23:50
Speaker 1: with my family, so you don't. I try not. I
23:54
Speaker 1: put it in a box and just go home and
23:56
Speaker 1: don't think about it. Yeah, I guess you have to.
24:00
Speaker 1: You know, I've had people have asked me the same thing,
24:02
Speaker 1: and it really helped me when I had John, David
24:05
Speaker 1: and Lucy, the twins, because I don't want them to
24:08
Speaker 1: have a mom that's constantly thinking about murder. And I
24:11
Speaker 1: would say, that's probably and you know me, well, Cheryl
24:15
Speaker 1: and Karen and Alexis, that's probably the first time I
24:19
Speaker 1: ever turned it off when I would come home like
24:22
Speaker 1: Crowns and saying it's when I finally had the twins,
24:27
Speaker 1: who I thought deserved a more normal mommy. Okay, there go.
24:30
Speaker 1: I was just curious Kendall Crowns because the way you
24:32
Speaker 1: said that, it was like, nah, he used to cut
24:36
Speaker 1: off the breast with a nipple, like it was no
24:38
Speaker 1: big deal. But okay, Cheryl McCollum jump in before I
24:43
Speaker 1: have to analyze Kendall Crowns. Okay, I'm not qualified for that.
24:47
Speaker 1: Go ahead. Well, I think this was something we can
24:48
Speaker 1: all agree with. This was overkill. So you're talking about
24:52
Speaker 1: a killer that took extra time. That had nothing to
24:55
Speaker 1: do with murder. This was not all about killing her.
25:00
Speaker 1: Could have just cut her throat like he did the
25:01
Speaker 1: dog and move home. What he did was a necessary
25:05
Speaker 1: to complete a murder. When you talk about the physical torture,
25:10
Speaker 1: the psychological torture, the humiliation, all of that plays a part.
25:15
Speaker 1: If you've got somebody and you have mutilated their breast
25:18
Speaker 1: even slightly, you've pulled their pants down, you've written something
25:22
Speaker 1: on their body, all of that is to humiliate her.
25:26
Speaker 1: Were her pants pulled down? Yes, that is to me
25:30
Speaker 1: not a meth head. Guys. Take a listen to Zach
25:33
Speaker 1: Summer's CBS forty six. Atlanta Police were called to the
25:36
Speaker 1: park in Midtown around one am and found the body
25:38
Speaker 1: of Katherine Janes. Her dog was also killed. One of
25:42
Speaker 1: the last known sightings of the two was near tenth
25:44
Speaker 1: and Piedmont. You know, it's not surprising that she would
25:46
Speaker 1: have been out. Clayton Skinner was a regular customer of Janesis.
25:50
Speaker 1: She was a bartender at Campanola. Skinner says most people
25:53
Speaker 1: who knew her called her Katie. She was a genuinely shy,
25:57
Speaker 1: sweet kind person. Skinner, who also lives in the town,
26:00
Speaker 1: says he often saw Janice walking her dog in the neighborhood.
26:04
Speaker 1: She routinely walked her dog later at night because she
26:07
Speaker 1: typically worked nightshift routine routine, she often walked her dog
26:13
Speaker 1: at night when she got off from bartending same route.
26:18
Speaker 1: And we know that's a big no no in the
26:22
Speaker 1: crime world. And I'm guilty of it too. I very
26:26
Speaker 1: often jog or walk the same route. So anyone that
26:30
Speaker 1: had been watching her from the bar knew what she
26:34
Speaker 1: was going to do if they had watched her even
26:36
Speaker 1: one or two nights before, which, as a whole another
26:40
Speaker 1: layer of complexity as to who the killer is. Now,
26:43
Speaker 1: you heard Cheryl com McCollum say, hey, and I think
26:47
Speaker 1: she's right. I do not think this is the work
26:50
Speaker 1: of a woman. Now, of course you have an aberration
26:56
Speaker 1: and killer such as Jody Arius and others that kill
27:01
Speaker 1: in a way that is traditionally statistically eight male homicide.
27:09
Speaker 1: This case seems to be the work of a man.
27:12
Speaker 1: Now you may be wondering how was her body located?
27:16
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Michael sidon w sb TV. This
27:21
Speaker 1: Crime Stoppers poster shows Katie walking with Bowie near Piedmont Park,
27:25
Speaker 1: but when she didn't return home. Emma became worried, so
27:28
Speaker 1: she pinned Katie's phone, which led her to the park.
27:30
Speaker 1: We don't know how long Katie layed here. We don't
27:33
Speaker 1: know that, but the Emma came up at twelve fifty seven.
27:38
Speaker 1: Right now, APD detectives are working around the clock, interviewing
27:42
Speaker 1: dozens of neighbors and reviewing hours of surveillance footage. This
27:45
Speaker 1: heinous crime has left an entire community on edge as
27:48
Speaker 1: police continue to search for a murderer. The fact that
27:51
Speaker 1: we don't even know who did this and it's just sad,
27:54
Speaker 1: it's sick in it said. The weeks have turned into months.
27:59
Speaker 1: The months have now turned into nearly a year. July
28:03
Speaker 1: twenty eight will be one year without this case being soft.
28:08
Speaker 1: I find that really difficult to understand. With the likelihood
28:13
Speaker 1: of DNA there Alexa's Terreschuk. Do we know whether the
28:18
Speaker 1: dog who was then murdered bent the assailant. Is there
28:23
Speaker 1: any chance there was DNA in the dog's mouth? They
28:27
Speaker 1: had anticipated that there would be DNA, but they have
28:29
Speaker 1: The police have not released any information about DNA that
28:33
Speaker 1: they obtained on the scene at all. They have not
28:36
Speaker 1: said that who that they're looking for, you know, a
28:40
Speaker 1: male based on the DNA well been based on the DNA.
28:42
Speaker 1: They have not released any details about it, but for
28:44
Speaker 1: sure the dog would have done that. This is a
28:46
Speaker 1: pit bull that they are not inherently that, but this
28:49
Speaker 1: dog would have protected its owner. And she was found,
28:53
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred feet away, so the dogs certainly
28:56
Speaker 1: could have been hurt first, and then she was dragged away. Yeah,
29:00
Speaker 1: the scenario, I mean, I think they would have been
29:01
Speaker 1: able to tell if she had been dragged. Del Carson
29:04
Speaker 1: agree or disagree. We saw that with Gabby Potito. I
29:07
Speaker 1: agree with that entirely. I mean, the distance is important,
29:11
Speaker 1: but dogs are much more mobile than human beings. The
29:14
Speaker 1: other thing that really is interesting to point out is
29:17
Speaker 1: that in night work, generally you're gonna have some DNA exchange,
29:22
Speaker 1: but finding that DNA on a body that's spend staff
29:25
Speaker 1: numerous times is difficult. It takes time, and there's no
29:29
Speaker 1: reason to release that DNA evidence as they try to
29:32
Speaker 1: match the alleles with other individuals exactly time stories with
29:51
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, it's coming up on a year and
30:00
Speaker 1: no resolution in the murder of this lovely young woman.
30:05
Speaker 1: Katie Janie take a listen to Hailey Mason, CBS forty six.
30:10
Speaker 1: Just minutes before this nine one one call was made. Yes, yes, oh.
30:24
Speaker 1: Police say people were inside Pete Muntpark at least six
30:27
Speaker 1: possible witnesses. Police pointing out on surveillance video, releasing these
30:31
Speaker 1: new higher quality photos today. Police honing in on talking
30:35
Speaker 1: to this possible witness who ran by the front of
30:37
Speaker 1: the park closest to the time the gruesome murder was
30:40
Speaker 1: discovered just yards away, seemingly unaware. We broke down the
30:44
Speaker 1: timeline showing the jogger near the park entrance at twelve
30:47
Speaker 1: forty six am, less than twenty five minutes before the
30:50
Speaker 1: body was discovered and police were called at one eleven
30:53
Speaker 1: am last Wednesday. Police telling me they can't confirm if
30:56
Speaker 1: the jogging man was a witness to the actual crime
30:59
Speaker 1: at this time, but they tell us he came forward
31:01
Speaker 1: and has been cooperating. He is not a suspect. Okay,
31:04
Speaker 1: Alexis Terstuk, what can you tell me about that? Well,
31:08
Speaker 1: the police have at this point in the year of
31:12
Speaker 1: this investigation, where nobody has been arrested. They have ruled
31:14
Speaker 1: out so far all everybody that they originally thought was
31:18
Speaker 1: a person of interest, they have said, is not so.
31:20
Speaker 1: Even though they're saying they have, they're focusing on technology.
31:26
Speaker 1: They don't appear to have to know who killed her
31:29
Speaker 1: at all. Okay, guys, take a listen to our cut
31:31
Speaker 1: twenty five. This is Ron James at eleven. Alt're hearing
31:35
Speaker 1: from a family member of Katie john Is, just hours
31:38
Speaker 1: after and autopsy revealed the final brutal moments of her life.
31:43
Speaker 1: The report finds Katie just forty years old, with stab
31:45
Speaker 1: more than fifty times and left to die along with
31:48
Speaker 1: her dog in Piedmont Park in July. Her death now
31:51
Speaker 1: ruled a homicide. The report says the letters fat were
31:56
Speaker 1: carved into her chest. The father of Katie's partner, Emma,
32:00
Speaker 1: tells he love and Alive exclusively. He's devastated to read
32:03
Speaker 1: just how brutal and extensive her injuries were. It's just
32:07
Speaker 1: heartbreaking to know that that's what she suffered through. Very
32:10
Speaker 1: a very angry, disturbed person is the only thing I
32:14
Speaker 1: could think of that could do so much damage to
32:17
Speaker 1: someone so far Nowhere rest have been made in more
32:20
Speaker 1: than one hundred days since Katie is killing. Her family
32:23
Speaker 1: now worried her killer is out there. Somewhere and the
32:26
Speaker 1: case may be going cold. There is still a killer
32:30
Speaker 1: on the loose that could do this any nut of
32:32
Speaker 1: the week in the city of Atlanta, and they have
32:36
Speaker 1: they don't have any idea who it is. Not what
32:40
Speaker 1: we want to hear. The awful truth is, there doesn't
32:44
Speaker 1: seem to be any resolution on the horizon. The city
32:48
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, particularly midtown Atlanta at Piedmont Park, being terrorized
32:54
Speaker 1: as the one year anniversary approaches of the murder of
32:58
Speaker 1: Katie Jennis. Now we have learned one thing. Take a
33:02
Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty seven from Fox five. The
33:05
Speaker 1: initial reaction of the dog. It was a pit bull.
33:08
Speaker 1: Now that's a very loyal, protective breed of dog. To
33:12
Speaker 1: not have the dog engage in some type of protective
33:16
Speaker 1: behavior of its master is interesting and it certainly moves
33:22
Speaker 1: us away from the stranger on stranger theory of the case.
33:27
Speaker 1: There's some credence to the idea that this was that
33:30
Speaker 1: this crime was committed by somebody who's familiar with the
33:33
Speaker 1: deceased and familiar with the deceased dog. The act was
33:37
Speaker 1: what police call and overkill. When you see multiple stab wouts,
33:42
Speaker 1: that takes time and that takes emotion because it's beyond
33:46
Speaker 1: just killing the person. It is a desire to inflict
33:50
Speaker 1: as much possible damage. Leads us to believe that the
33:54
Speaker 1: individual who committed the crime knew the victim. Okay, Karen,
33:57
Speaker 1: start joining me Renown New York Psychology. Karen, what do
34:00
Speaker 1: you make of that? Well, I don't know if I
34:03
Speaker 1: agree anthy and normally I really would. But somebody taking
34:07
Speaker 1: a chance like that in a park. I realized it
34:10
Speaker 1: was nighttime, but there was that guy, for instance, who
34:14
Speaker 1: was driving. Anybody could have come across that scene. There's
34:19
Speaker 1: just this feeling for me, and I could be wrong,
34:21
Speaker 1: but my gut tells me that there was something about
34:24
Speaker 1: this that was unplanned. It it seems so random and
34:31
Speaker 1: carving the word I just it just doesn't I don't know,
34:35
Speaker 1: unless there's something that we don't understand about her pass. Well,
34:38
Speaker 1: I've got another question, del Carson. If I were going
34:43
Speaker 1: to murder someone with a knife, which is a whole
34:46
Speaker 1: different thing that from shooting someone at a distance, I
34:50
Speaker 1: certainly wouldn't pick someone with a pitbull, absolutely not. And
34:55
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting that in this particular case, the
34:59
Speaker 1: individual White Frankly must have known who this woman was
35:04
Speaker 1: to show an exhibit such anger in over killing as
35:09
Speaker 1: they did, and of course this is the act of
35:11
Speaker 1: an organized not a disorganized, but an organized killer. And
35:16
Speaker 1: disorganized killer would leave plenty of evidence. We would know
35:20
Speaker 1: who this is. This person is organized, and if I
35:23
Speaker 1: had to guess, I would say, pardon me that it's
35:26
Speaker 1: somebody in her history, going way back to the time
35:30
Speaker 1: that she was younger and was abused by someone. If
35:34
Speaker 1: that is in fact the case, that's really reaching back.
35:37
Speaker 1: What about the theory alexis tors shut that someone knew
35:43
Speaker 1: her from that bar. They thought they knew her anyway,
35:48
Speaker 1: They knew her enough to know she goes jogging or
35:51
Speaker 1: walking the dog every night after she gets off where
35:54
Speaker 1: she would be where her route was, and cared enough
35:59
Speaker 1: to kill the dog. That suggested me that they did
36:04
Speaker 1: know her. They could have known her. Yeah, but the
36:06
Speaker 1: dog had to be disabled first, so if a crazy
36:08
Speaker 1: person just ran up to her, they would grab the
36:10
Speaker 1: dog first. You don't know if the dog was on
36:12
Speaker 1: a leash or not. Some dogs are really well behaved
36:16
Speaker 1: dogs and don't need a leash. Other dogs, you know,
36:19
Speaker 1: or you know, she could let them off the leash
36:21
Speaker 1: when she goes into the park, but keep them on
36:22
Speaker 1: the leash on the street. The thing is, so she
36:25
Speaker 1: actually didn't do the same route every single night. That's
36:29
Speaker 1: what her girlfriend said. She said, you know, she would
36:33
Speaker 1: just sort of walk wherever she fell a walking. There
36:35
Speaker 1: was no plan. Ever, She's walked this way, she walked
36:37
Speaker 1: that way. So it perhaps was not somebody, although they
36:40
Speaker 1: could have followed her from the bar that night, but
36:43
Speaker 1: it wasn't a set route that she ever did. The
36:45
Speaker 1: thing about Midtown is and where they live, they'll live
36:48
Speaker 1: close to the park. If you are walking through that area.
36:52
Speaker 1: As one of my regular jogging routes, you can go
36:56
Speaker 1: up Fourth Street as opposed to Fifth Straight or are
36:59
Speaker 1: Gone versus Penn. Let me compare it to a park
37:03
Speaker 1: in Washington. Remember how Lafayette designed a city of Washington,
37:08
Speaker 1: and all the roads lead to the center here, all
37:13
Speaker 1: the many many of the streets in Midtown lead to
37:17
Speaker 1: the park. So whether she went down Fourth or fifth,
37:20
Speaker 1: Penn or are Gone, She's going to end up in
37:23
Speaker 1: the park area no matter what. I've got a theory.
37:27
Speaker 1: What do you think about this? Del Carson? If it
37:30
Speaker 1: is a random person and they have a knife, and
37:34
Speaker 1: I'm going back to the meth head idea, what if
37:38
Speaker 1: she was not the actual first target. What if the
37:41
Speaker 1: dog could have lunged at someone that was already off kilter,
37:47
Speaker 1: and they attack the dog and then attack her. I mean,
37:52
Speaker 1: we have no idea what happened. That's an interesting theory
37:55
Speaker 1: and quite possible because any competent owner, and she's been
38:00
Speaker 1: documented as a real dog person, is someone attacked the
38:04
Speaker 1: dog in response to the dog rushing at them, she
38:08
Speaker 1: would almost naturally try to protect the dog, as you
38:12
Speaker 1: perhaps would one of your children. Right now, we seem
38:16
Speaker 1: to know less than we did at the very beginning,
38:18
Speaker 1: the one year mark approaching of this young woman's brutal murder.
38:25
Speaker 1: If you have information, or think you have information, please
38:29
Speaker 1: dial four zero four five four six forty two thirty
38:34
Speaker 1: five repeat four zero four five four six four two
38:41
Speaker 1: three five. We wait as justice unfoals. Nancy Grace comes story,
38:46
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend