Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / "Backstage Pass: The Grit and the Glamour"/Joe Matera [Episode 137]

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"Backstage Pass: The Grit and the Glamour"/Joe Matera [Episode 137] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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Who I mean, I'll leave you do you're reading Little Hands? Is It's
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time to run and roll? We are totally booked. Welcome to book don
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Rock, the podcast for those about to read and rock. Subscribe and follow
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on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. Exclusive videos weekly
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on all the social media platforms. Links to all the social media sites at
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book down rock dot com. Joe Mattera is this episode's guest. He is
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the author of the book Backstage Pass, The Grit and the Glamour. Joe's
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a musician and rock journalist who's interviewed artists from all over the world, covering
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the full spectrum of genres. His book, Backstage Pass takes the reader to
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the backstage and beyond to get behind the facade of the rock stars he's met.
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He share stories of his experiences interviewing Nickelback, Lemmy from Motorhead, The
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Shadows, guitarist Hank Marvin, and John Mayer. He recalls the time a
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member of Death cab for Cutie blew Off as interview, explains why he thinks
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the metal community is so misunderstood. How are you approaches asking musicians difficult questions?
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And how do you survive the wear and tear of touring. We get
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to all of that in this episode, so let's get right to it.
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Here is Joe Matera. Hi Joe, welcome to the Book Down Rock Podcast.
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Thank you so much, Eric, thanks for having me on. Outstanding
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book. I loved. What a fascinating read. This gives you insight into
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what it's like to be a rock journalist, what it's like to be a
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musician on the road, the crazy life that it is. But before we
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get to that, let's talk a little bit about yourself. Where you're from
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and what got you into becoming a rock journalist and a musician. Well,
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I'm from Melbourne, Australia, and so yeah, I look, first of
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all, first foremost, I'm a musician, So I took up I'll pick
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up guitar at the age of fifteen. And I come from this all of
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our classic rock artists like in Everybody from you know, Queen Vane, Harlan,
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you know, all that sort of stuff. But I sort of did
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learn a lot of out of styles of music as a guitar player. So
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you know, guitar has always been me, Me Maine love of an instrument.
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How then the journal isn't it. Always loved writing. It's interesting because
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even from school, one of my best subjects was just writing in English class,
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you know. And I just sort of fell into music journalism. I
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mean, when the Internet happened in the early nineties, I was on it
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pretty quick, you know, and I saw the sort of development of how
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where it was going. You know, there's some early music sites, you
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know, and and so you know, I used to check out some of
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these fans sort of sites, and I noticed they were like email addresses the
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foot you know, you can actually contact people. So I just sent a
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couple of emails to a few sort of artists that I sort of liked,
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and I got responses, you know, and I thought, okay, maybe
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I could ask him a few questions about some of my favorite albums. And
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one of the very first ones who actually did that for me was Andrew Old,
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who passed away a few years ago. He had a big hit in
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the seventies court Lonely Boy, and he was gracious enough to sort of answer
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all my questions, you know. And I looked at it and I thought,
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wow, you know, this is sort of a bit of an interview.
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So I rated it all up, and I thought oh, you know,
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see if someone wants to published it. So I you know, I
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approached a songwriter magazine in the in Ireland and that was sort of running all
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these sort of songwriter interviews and they checked out and say, I'll really love
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this, we'll publish it for it, and I thought, oh, well
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great, you know, and then then the big surprise came when I said,
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and we'll pay you for it, and I go really okay. So
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that sort of got me our sort of you know, my mind going.
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I'm thinking, oh, well, yeah, this is something that is quite
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fun and I could get paid for. So, you know, I basically
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just started sort of writing, you know, for like local street press,
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you know. And it took me quite a number of years to sort of
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reach the position where I was able to sort of get some access to big
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name stars and that sort of stuff. But the big breakthrough came, as
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I mentioned in my book, when I got to sort of meet and interview
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nickel Back. Now, at that time nickel Back in Australia, they weren't
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they were weren't big, they were just stored in starting the break They had
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their sort of single out how you Remind Me, But it wasn't doing anything
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much and so I happened to be there at the right time, at the
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right place interviewed him. The interview sort of got published. Was one of
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the very first interviews they did in about like three months later. They were
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huge, and they came out back to Australia and they asked for me to
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interview them again, and basically I interviewed them for a number of years of
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that period in them and from that interview, basically all the other started happening.
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My name got out there, and here I am today after you know
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what, twenty something years doing this and hundreds of interviews have done. It's
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like a snowball of facts, bigger and bigger and bigger. Absolutely, it's
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another I read books where they say sort of sometimes, you know, where
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people say looking eye, I had a plan, I wanted to do this
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when I'd grown up or whatever, and it's like I never had that sort
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of plan. I just fell into it. I just followed my passion and
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you know, things presented themselves to me and I sort of grabbed them and
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reign with it, you know, I mean, not knowing what the result
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will be. So Sam is my book. I mean, I never knew
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I would end up writing a book. I mean, I do kick diaries,
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and I think that's one of the things that was my savior, in
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the sense that I could remember things and in details. So if I didn't
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have a diary, it would have been a lot more harder for me to
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sort of recall a lot of moments because there's been so many, you know,
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and like everythiness, you know, when you look back on things,
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you go, oh, I can't remember that, But when you read your
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diaries, you go, oh, I did that, and all have sun
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all these other memor you start to sort of be recalled and you paint a
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bigger picture, which is really cool. Yeah, And this book is not
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so much about the rock stars and the bands you've met, much like finding
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out how an album or song has constructed. This book pulls back the curtains
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to see what really goes into the process of being in a band and what
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it's like being a rock journalist, right, That was the goal of this
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book, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. The one thing I read, I
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mean, I've read so many music you know, auto bographies and bios,
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and it's almost about the six drugs rockano and it's and it gets tiring after
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a while because you know, like how many sort of stories can you read
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that are sort of repeated and and a lot of times those stories are sort
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of exaggerated, you know, Like I mean, Motley Crue is a classic
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example. I mean, yet a lot of those things that happened, but
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there's a lot of things that didn't happen. And I mean, I'm pretty
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much I know Tom Woman, who was the producer of those three classic Motley
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Crue albums, and he told me a lot of stories about what happened,
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you know, and a lot of them, you know, he dispouted a
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lot of myths that we take for granted has been you know, oh Motley
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Crue did that, you know. So I wanted to write a book from
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the perspective of showing readers what it's like behind the scenes in regards to the
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amount of work involved, the perseverance, um, you know, the boredom,
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because there's a lot of times where, you know, touring it's not
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this glamorous procession where you're touring in checking out countries that sort of stuff.
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It's it's about getting to the next show, to do your show for the
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for the audience. A lot of times you don't get a much chance to
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sort of look around, you know, so it's about getting sound check,
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having arrest, so there's a lot of sleeping, you know, eating,
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rehearsing, performing, and onto the next town. So I wanted to show
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people the reality of what it is. But at the same time, there's
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some great stories. I mean, this is the building of characters of artists
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that we've grown to love, you know, and what it's like. So
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I'm not saying that that sort of stuff like the six Drugs rock and roll
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doesn't happen. I didn't want to focus on that. I wanted to focus
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more on showing people that they're faint, they're great artists that they love,
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are just like you and I humans, you know, really down to earth,
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wonderful people. You know, you'll be surprised at the amount of mental
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guys have met who are just so down to earth, so wonderful, and
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you wouldn't think from the IMMI say portray. But again, it's all about
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the persona, the public persona, which I delve into a fairly much in
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my book. That's what I want to ask you about it in terms of
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well, specifically Nickelback. So you interview them while they're still fairly unknown,
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right the first singles out, then they become huge. In fact, it's
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funny because you've told your editor, get these guys on the front page.
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No, no, no, you were able to say, I told you
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so. But but when you interview them again and they are now famous,
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any changed. Do you notice any change in the personality of a band before
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and after same hits? M One thing I did notice? It changes it
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The entourage obviously got bigger because you know, they're much more you know,
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there's a lot more people involved in it. At that time, I mentioned
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a book about because I was so big, and there was a backlash to
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Nickelback, as you know, like there's sort of everybody was in about hate
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Nickelback, you know, and I could never understand it because basically Nickelback would
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you know. It's just a successful at a formula that they did, and
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good luck to him, you know. I mean as a musician that we
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all want to be sort of you know, our music for the mass mass
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audiences, you know, so and I remember, you know, like Karrangla,
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one of the magazines are really sort of you know, relating to sort
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of Nickelback, you know, and you know, Chad really didn't like that,
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you know, he really was pissed off about that sort of stuff.
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So but looking at the change, and I mean looked they were the same
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as when I first met him, you know that they obviously they were a
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lot more confident. They knew what they wanted now because they you know,
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they were pretty successful. But I didn't see much of a chance and when
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I first met them to you know, over the next couple of interviews I
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did with them, apart from the big entourage and and and obviously the quality
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of where they was staying, I mean, apart from staying from smaller motels,
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I was now staying in nice you know, luxurious hotels in the city.
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That's great to hear. Though they never they didn't change, but you
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and you said, Chad, you're referring to Chad Roger who was the singer
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and the guitarist, and I think they mean songwriter. Is he the mean
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and the other thing? Sorry, Eric, the other thing too mentioned is
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un Chad also, And like other bands I've interviewed, once they understand what
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sort of journalists you are. And because I was a musician too, they
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could relate to me on that sort of mind level. They know I wasn't
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there for tabloid in a headline, because if I was there just to sort
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of and find something from Chaddon and the next thing go and put on the
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headline. He wanted to interview me at all, you know, because you
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know there's a trusted development of artists, you know, And that's what I
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asked for me again, because I've never been about the headline, never been
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about you know, like blah blah blah whatever. It's always been about the
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music and about the artists. Which leads me to the next question, which
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is on Lemmy from Motorhead. You had the chance to interview him, the
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late great Lemmy. Can you talk about that first experience interviewing him and how
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you prepared because you were told ahead of time that Lemmy didn't have patience for
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a journalist who didn't do their homework. Absolutely, yes, I was warned
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by half a dozen journalists and Lenny was not going to be easy to interview,
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and he didn't suffer fools gladly, So I made sure I researched a
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hell of a lot of stuff about Lemmy. I wanted to ask questions that
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engaged him rather than being asked the same thing over and over again. So
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when the time came, it was a phone interview, the first one,
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and I could tell straight away he was like, you know, the war
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was already up, you know, So he started, you know, I
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asked him questions and he really put me through my paces, really made me
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sort of work at it. But then suddenly I noticed a war star and
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come down, you know, like he started to open up a bit more
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to me, you know. And finally after the interview is over, he
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said to me, Joe, that was a bloody great interview, and I
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want you to come backstage and meet me and hang out with me when I'm
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in Australian about six months time. I too, was absolutely fantastic, and
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I just felt like wow, you know, and and I want him over
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in that sense. So when he came out to Australia with Motorhead, I
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did, you know, I got to meet him. He was absolutely wonderful.
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I gave him that interview that I did because I was published. He
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sat there and he read in front of me and he was gone, this
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is really great. You know, he says, happ yourself with Jack Daniels,
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make yourself comfortable, made me feel so welcome, and it was basically
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just me and Lemmy and he had a sort of a lady sort of friend
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with him in the corner there. But absolutely wonderful guy. He was really
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witty, intelligent, I was going to say intelligent first year. That's sometimes
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misunderstood about him. Yeah, look should look from as as as all the
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artists I've met, Lenny was the real deal. He was a real rock
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star. Um. He absolutely a true gentleman. And again, I mean
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you talk to anybody who knew Lemmy, they'll say the same thing. Absolutely
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a wonderful guy. So one of my highlights of my career, that's for
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sure. So when you get to the point where you got a difficult question
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to ask, and this is again regarding Lemmy, there was a time that
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there were rumors on the internet that he was bisexual. So you asked the
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question. His response was very honest, But were you concerned? How do
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you approach something like that? You wait until you feel it's the right time.
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Yes, that's you wait for him, wait, you sort of.
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I asked him that later on as his war was coming down. But also
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you ask in the manner that he knows you're sort of curious about You're not,
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you know, you're not trying to sort of rule him up as he
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like try and get him sort of going to say something. You just sort
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of say, look, I understand why do this? People say that?
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And the way you responded was absolutely fantastic. You know this is a classic
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Lemmy response. Really yeah, absolutely, yeah, But you're right. It's
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the TMZ approaches to kind of poke and POKEM pokem until you get so pissed
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off and we go, we got it. We got the footage put out
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there. But that's yeah, you have just a genuine interest in these artists,
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as I do and so many music fans do. You're more curious as
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how they really feel. And I think that they appreciate that for sure.
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You know what it's like to be the musician. It's not all glamorous.
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You include a chapter on your experience in Sweden, another one on the day
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to day schedule of Joe Satriani and Stevie V during their G three tour.
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So you got the rehearsal, you got the show, you got interviews,
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check in and out of hotels, traveling schedules, you do. That's all
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that stuff. So for those musicians just starting out who are listening right now,
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what is your advice for when they start hitting the road and they start
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playing gigs. What's the key to surviving long term? Yeah, first of
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all, it's it's about doing it for the love of music, and it's
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a lost style. It's basically, you know, I have a lot of
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young bands side to me about, you know, we want to get reaginal
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lists stuff, and I say, well, if you want it, if
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you do it for the money, I suggest you become a lawyer because you
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can make a hell of a lot more as a lawyer. I say,
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You've got to do it for the for the love of music, and you've
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got to realize it's hard work. It's not something that's going to happen overnight.
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You know. I have an issue with a lot of these reality shows,
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like you know, American Idolts or stuff, because it's sort of shows
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what notice a well, like you don't go there going from my bedroom to
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plan to say a sold out arena right because of you know, the show.
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And that's not really the way to build a career, a lost,
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long lasting career. I mean, all these artists have interviewed. You know,
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like everybody from like Alice Cooper. You know, it takes a number
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of elbums to build a career, and that's constantly touring. So what I
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say my advice is just to go out there, play as many shows as
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you can, build your following. Obviously, utilize social media because that's really
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important nowadays. But do it for love, you know, build have have
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a rapport with your audience. You know, just just play play for the
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love of because if you're genuine and what you do, the audience will pick
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up on it, you know, and that's how you have your fans that
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will stay with your right to the end. And don't be so hell bent
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on a record deal because these days record deals aren't really what they used to
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be, like, you know, you know, and it's about having control
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of your music and having control of your career. So I'll just say you'll
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go out and play mini gig as you can build a following, and do
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it for the right reasons, which is the love of music. And touring
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can put a strain on relationships. There are some who have been able to
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have long marriages and they're still happily married. You mentioned before we started recording.
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You interviewed Michael Anthony and Van Helen. He comes to mind married is
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I think his childhood sweetheart, rats sweetheart Ratsil married Charlie Watts of The Stones.
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Job On Jovi married to his high school sweetheart. Can you talk about
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why it's so difficult and is there a secret to a successful relationship while being
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on the road all the time, just from your own personal experience and also
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from what musicians tell you about all of that. I think massus cuss the
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ones that are the ones who know their wives understand what is involved. So
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you know, you've got to understand it. Being in music means you're going
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to be away from home quite a lot. You're gonna be able to understand
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that that at the outset and be able to support if you can't. That's
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a lot of marriages end up because I mean that is it is a lonely
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existence for both. I mean, you're on the road, yet you're playing
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to fans at your wife's bad home. They might be struggling with the kids,
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so it's not an easy life. But if you are both on the
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same page and both support each other, it will work. The ones that
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don't work, yes, that's right. They are the ones who sort of,
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you know, they might say, oh, you've changed now, you
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know, you're a big rock star, but that's probably because they didn't ever
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realize some day one that what was involved. It's it's not this glamorous life,
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because really that glamorous lifestyle is is an illusion, you know, like
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it's not reality. Reality is. You don't go out to parties every day,
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you know, and I mean as you know, I mean, for
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example, we mentioned David Lee Rife at the start. You know, yes,
16:48
he's probably pretty much out there guy. But seriously, if you're if
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you're a lead singer and you're doing the show every night and you go out
16:56
and party every night, that's going to basically affect your health eventually and your
16:59
voice. You to be able to be in your top form if you want,
17:02
you know, to be successful. So there's a lot of sort of
17:04
balance. It's a balancing at between you know, doing the stuff that you
17:07
need to be done and looking after yourself as well as you having fun obviously
17:11
too. But it's it's really hard, hard sort of balance to do it.
17:15
But if you want to be successful, you got you gotta do it.
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Yeah, it's like an alternate world that they slip into the rock star
17:21
world. But then when they walk off stage, a lot of them will
17:23
tell you, my wife's telling me to go out and take the trash out.
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I'm no different than you guys, but it but the image is there
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because you want to present this image. You want to be somebody who's a
17:34
larger than life. Rocks are and some of those guys. Nowadays it's hard
17:37
to keep your personal life out of the public eye. It's it's more difficult
17:42
now just because everybody's got a camera phone and they can catch you when you're
17:45
doing all kinds of stuff. But back in the day, you could just
17:48
carefully craft that image. I would imagine it's not as easy nowadays. Oh
17:53
it's not. And I look. The one thing I noticed when I went
17:56
on When I go on tour is I'm a lot A lot of my fans
17:59
who meet with the first time in other countries say to me, oh,
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you look exactly, saying as you do on Facebook example, and I go,
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well, yeah, because I don't post them, and that's not real.
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I post things that are real because that's right. I mean, fans,
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if you start posting stuff, you know, like you know, you
18:14
all this sort of glamorous image and then you go on the road and they
18:17
see in this different state. They're going to go, what's going on here?
18:18
This is not real? You know, So I understand the whole time.
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I mean, I'll grab in a whole generation like yourself, where you
18:25
know, rock stars were bigger, larger than life, you know, and
18:26
it's nice to that is a sort of how they are. But nowadays it's
18:30
all been blown, you know, like you said, with phones, you
18:33
know exactly what's going on. So you've got to be genuine today. I
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think it's most important thing is you've got to be real, authentic and just
18:41
be who you are. You see the book that the bigger the star,
18:44
the more pressure they tend to be under, and this leads to a meltdown
18:47
at times. And you witness Billy Corrigan's meltdown while he was on stage during
18:51
a solo show in two thousand and five, and he was trying to establish
18:53
himself as a solo artist, distance himself from the smashing pumpkins, but the
18:57
crowd kept shouting out pumpkins, pumpkins, and he got piss stormed off stage.
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So as a musician in journalists. What are you thinking at that point
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you were in the audience that now, do you understand his frustration more because
19:08
you're a musician, or are you thinking with a journalist mind and saying,
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you know that's not right. You know, you gotta you know, you
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got people that paid for a ticket. I was thinking more of a musician
19:18
point of it, because I know what it's like. I mean, I
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understand that. You know, as you become more successful, the pressure builds
19:23
on you, especially if you're the main songwriter where you know all the hits,
19:27
you write, the hits, you know, and if you don't start
19:30
writing hits, the label starts coming down on you and say, well,
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you know, if you don't write another hit, we're going to drop you.
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So there's so much pressure. So the thing with Billy was he had
19:38
you know, you know, Smashing Pumpkins. It was so successful, you
19:41
know, and then he wanted to sort of go out by himself and do
19:45
something on his own, and unfortunately, it's a really hard road to do
19:48
that because you've developed a persona with a certain band that people know you full
19:52
so and then to go out by yourself to play songs that you know,
19:56
something new that you want to do, which is totally differently the Future Races,
20:00
the album that he had out. He's totally different to anything he's done
20:03
with Smashing Pumpkins, you know, sort of sort of guys that towards the
20:07
last album they did, um, you know, late nineties. But m
20:11
yeah, look I saw as a mindset I could understand, you know,
20:14
and all those audiences, all they were worried about is they wanted to sort
20:15
of have the hits because they'll paying the tickets. We want the hits,
20:18
we want the hits. But unfortunately he didn't want to do that, you
20:22
know. And that's why I had that mount there so I could understand empathized
20:25
with him the pressure he was under. Yeah, I could too. I
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mean, he is human. These guys are human. That's the other thing
20:30
that people need to understand. These are human beings. They're flawed, you
20:33
know. They they're not super they're not superman. You know, they're just
20:37
like everybody else. You mentioned Death Cab for Cutie in your book, and
20:41
that's one of my favorite of the newer bands that are out there. I
20:45
really love Death Cab for Cutie, and I gotta be honest, I had
20:48
no idea that most people knew him through the OC because I never watched that
20:52
show. But we'll get to that in a sack. But but yeah,
20:55
you've had to deal with no shows. Can you talk about your experience with
20:56
Chris Waller of Death Cab for cutey first time around but a better second time
21:03
around? Right? Yeah? Yeah, first and around he just sort of
21:06
didn't turn up for his interview, you know, and I've got to all
21:08
these excuses from the manager, but I think he just did give it.
21:11
He didn't give it. Um, he didn't give a ship basically about doing
21:15
an interview, I think. But the second time around, like I mentioned
21:18
my book, he sort of didn't even remember that really, you know.
21:21
But he was a lot better at that time, and I was really glad
21:22
he did, because you know, he was actually a really nice guy and
21:26
a great musician. But again, you know, I could I suppose been
21:30
on tour so much, you know, and then you've got to do that
21:33
press day. A lot of artists go, do we have to do this?
21:34
And um, they just disappeared, you know. But again from a
21:37
musician point of view, I could understand that. But if I was purely
21:41
better a headline I would didn't say, well, you know, look at
21:45
this guy. He's he's um. He doesn't care about you know this,
21:48
and you would you could. You could write anything you want to make it
21:52
go in the way you want to go. And that's that's the thing about
21:53
UM people need to be aware of when I read something in the magazine is
21:57
it's a righteous perception of how they write something to make you go with what
22:02
they want you to go. So you could make anything go in a direction
22:06
that you want to, and paint the peature for a certain artist the way
22:08
you want to doesn't necessarily mean it's true. But I'm always about making sure
22:12
that the facts are there and just just observing. I mean, I'll just
22:17
observe that's what happened to me. I wrote exactly what happened to me.
22:19
And yeah, I'm glad that the second time ran it proved to be better.
22:23
Yeah, And this leads again to a question regarding what to ask and
22:26
what not to ask. So in Wallace case, you're told not to ask
22:32
any questions about their association with the TV show The oc which it featured the
22:36
band's music, and they were also written into the fictional narrative of the show
22:41
as you write, can you talk about why you were given that request and
22:45
how did you respond to that? Does it depend is it situation to situation
22:49
or do you say, Hey, I'm gonna ask whatever the hell I want
22:52
to ask. That's a very good question now, that one that I want
22:53
to sort distance themselves and because I will be come and sort of people just
22:56
call them like the band that was on OC you know, and and I
23:00
understand as a musician that you know you don't want to get sort of a
23:03
what's the word for it? Tagged with labeled as one band from a certain
23:07
thing and not know for the rest of your music, which I could understand
23:11
you do get at times lists from publishers the stage. Don't ask the artist's
23:15
question because if you do, it's going to be I'll just shut down interview.
23:18
Now you have a choice in that one. It's either. So if
23:22
I am there purely for the headline, I would basically go right, I
23:25
don't care what you say. I'm going to ask him this, and if
23:26
it gets shut down, then you've got your headline of artists you know runs
23:32
in a shut down interview, there's your headline. But I'm not about that.
23:34
I wanted to make sure that it was about the music. I didn't
23:37
care. If they don't want to talk about that, that's fine. But
23:38
you know, a lot of times, ninety five percent of the time,
23:41
when when an artist knows you're not there for a headline, they'll open up
23:45
and talk about themselves. You know, they'll say yeah, yeah, and
23:48
then you get your story. You still get your story, but in a
23:49
way that's actually given to you by them rather than something you try and force
23:53
out of them. Yeah, I'm always going to respect that if somebody comes
23:57
to me and says, don't ask that, because you have to be careful.
24:02
At a lot of times people don't forget about this. You have your
24:04
reputation to keep. So word gets around that this Joe matterror guy is just
24:10
he's asking these questions and he's just looking for a quote. He's just looking
24:15
for a clickbait. Stay away from this guy, you know. So you
24:18
have to be careful of that, and when they realize that you're not there
24:21
to do that, then your reputation goes the other way and they'll welcome you
24:26
in. Like John Mayer, I want to ask about two. He was
24:27
very comfortable with you, but yeah, you have to be careful of that
24:30
too. Have you ever had but have you ever had a situation where maybe
24:34
there's a current situation going down with a particular artist where everybody's talking about it,
24:38
and everybody wants to know what this artist thinks, and their publicist says
24:44
he's not going to talk about it. Would you just say, well,
24:45
then I'm not going to do the interview because there's no reason, because I
24:51
there's always different topics. He can you know, you can't just concentrate on
24:55
one thing that I don't want to feel about one thing. That's fine.
24:56
That's the thing with what I do. I try and find a different um
25:00
avenue of what to talk about. There's always different stuff that will engage an
25:03
artists, so you know, you can find things that they go, well,
25:07
he actually wants me to ask about this, and no one's ever asked
25:10
me before, and so yeah, and you're right, it's a reputation.
25:12
I mean, I've got a reputation too. So if you got a reputation
25:15
as someone who just cares about a headline, you won't you get much work,
25:18
you know, and if you do, you're going to not many bands
25:21
would want to trust you with that. You know, I've had a lot
25:22
of stuff with artists who've told me stuff that they know I would never reveal.
25:27
I mean, I've got stuff on tape. If I was a headline
25:30
journalist, I would just say, well, here's the tapes, check this
25:33
out what they've told me. But I would never do that because that's that's
25:36
breaking a trust between you and an artist, which you know, and that's
25:40
why a lot of a lot of times artists have always called to me because
25:42
they know they can trust me. They go, well, this guy because
25:45
one thing I alwayso do Eric, is I make sure they get the interviews
25:49
I do so they get to see my work, so they can see oh
25:52
he actually kept to his word, he actually wrote about the music. He
25:56
wrote about that. And they go, well, remember him, next time
25:59
we're in town, will talk to him because we can trust him, you
26:02
know. And they do open up. They open up a lot of times.
26:03
You know, it depends on on the situation that might have been on
26:08
the road for so long that they just sort of start opening up to you
26:11
about all sorts of problems, you know, maybe personal problems, and they
26:14
know that you're not going to go and run to the nearest editor and say
26:18
look what Look what you know he's given me, I can give your headline.
26:21
So it's very important, you know. And relationships, especially in his
26:23
industry, are really important that you keep a good reputation and and and respect.
26:29
Really basically it comes into respect. Off the record, that's another one.
26:33
Off the record. After record means after record period. Although there have
26:37
been some books that have come out lately, you know, of an artist
26:41
after they've passed, they put in the book what that artist at the time
26:45
said off the record, how do you what's your approach on that? That's
26:49
a good one. That's that's that's something where the legal department of a book
26:52
has to look at it and make up the decision for you, because a
26:56
lot of times your book does get looked over. The thing is everything that
27:00
luck in my book, God, it is not my observation. So it's
27:03
true for me. There's nothing in the book that is um, you know,
27:08
accusing of anybody's basically what happened to me, you know, luck at
27:11
Lucky said earlier, But Billy Billy Corgan, it's what I observed, what's
27:17
actually happened, you know, which can be verified by others who were there.
27:19
But it's how you you you you put it across. So I could
27:23
have put it across in a different way. I could have said, oh,
27:26
Billy, was you know stone at his brain? He was totally offered,
27:30
he didn't give it care about blah blah blah. And then it will
27:33
become much more of an accusation of well, how do you know this?
27:36
You were you there were you? Did you know? You know he was
27:38
off his head or something stone. So it's the way you write things and
27:41
and and and be onst in it so without you know, painting a picture
27:47
that's not true. So that's a really good question off the record. When
27:49
I say off the record, legally you know, letter repeat, infant,
27:52
off the record, I mean, no matter what, even even if that
27:55
are as passes aren't, they're no longer with us, well as far as
27:59
I know. I mean, I kind of answer that from probably a person
28:02
who's into the music law thing will be able to answer that for you.
28:07
I haven't come across that myself my situation. I can only write from my
28:12
experience of what I know. So maybe some other author could answer that for
28:15
you, But it depends on the situation. Yeah. The book Done Right
28:19
Podcasts we'll be back after this. Joe Matera is here to talk about his
28:26
book Backstage, Past, the Grit and the Glamour. So you've interviewed many
28:29
metal bands over the years, and you see in the book that the heavy
28:32
metal community is one of the most misunderstood genres. Why do you think that
28:36
is because the public tends to those who don't understand the metal community or metal
28:41
music tend to sort of judge them on the way they look at what they
28:44
do that understand any other music. For example, you know, a lot
28:45
of metal bands thing about death for or you know, Satan or anything like
28:51
that, which is in topics that are sort of really controversial in general society.
28:55
But that's as theaters, so as I'm concerned. I mean Shakespeare,
28:59
I mean he wrote books that were you know, seta So for me,
29:00
metal music is an outlet that's really important, um to let go of all
29:06
your frustrations, you know, if you've got in your age whatever. And
29:08
I think it's wonderful because you know, I've been to so many metal concerts,
29:11
you know, as I said, I've you know, interviewed so many
29:14
and they are just the most nicest guys. It's amazing. Like you know,
29:17
there's there's a contrast to what they do on stage. You know a
29:19
lot of metal musicians don't even listen to metal music. I listen to like
29:22
jazz or classical music. Yes, this is that crazy, I know,
29:26
it's so yeah, it is so cool, you know, like men look
29:29
at Bruce Dickinson, you know, you fly. He's a commercial pilot,
29:30
he's a fencer. I mean he does stuff that you wouldn't think a metal
29:34
musician does, you know. But that's the balance in it. I mean,
29:38
if can you imagine if all you did was just play metal music,
29:41
listen to metal music, live metals, seriously, you'll be You'll be pretty
29:47
much you know, gon go crazy whatever because you can't. You're gonna have
29:52
a balance to it. So the metal musicians I may have been all wonderful
29:56
guys. I mean I'm made. For example, they go off and play
29:59
golf and drink, you know, just have a beer or anguish Young for
30:03
example, he's a tea typeler, never touched alcohol, you know here you
30:07
know, like a demon milk chocolate milk. So I've got I've got a
30:15
lot of respect for metal musician and now I think it's it's a very important
30:18
um hummunity, and it preserves its purpose as an outlet and and does unite.
30:23
I mean, I think the difference from a metal concert to say a
30:27
pop concert is there's a lot more camaradi in the metal community than there is
30:33
in the pop community. I think, you know, just from you know,
30:34
because pop's much more about what's popular. Now, let's go on to
30:37
the next thing. Metal with something that stays there no matter how many,
30:40
how long. I mean, look at the fans of Jewis Priest, They're
30:42
still there all these years. I mean, you know, I'm a fan
30:45
still there. You don't sort of um just because in a band sort of
30:48
grows older, you go, oh, I'm no longer listening to a lot
30:51
of pop music. You know, there's a certain age that you go,
30:52
well, I'm time for me to mature and listen to some different music.
30:56
But metal music is always there. It's really important. There are those in
30:59
the US business who are known as hired guns. This is always interesting musicians
31:03
basically hired to perform on stage or in studio with famous bands and musicians.
31:07
Brian ray So he's been Paul McCartney's right hand man since two thousand and two.
31:12
He plays guitar and bass. These musicians that find they make for the
31:17
best interviews because they've got stories to tell that have never been told, because
31:22
nobody's coming to them to ask what was your experience like interviewing him? And
31:26
can you share his story? He had a story about Paul and the song
31:30
she Loves You? Right, Paul shared a story with Brian. Brian,
31:33
Right, that's right, because hide guns. They're working with guys, you
31:38
know, in Brian's case with Paul McCartney, and if you're working with people
31:42
like that, you're going to hear stories that a lot of people might have
31:45
ever heard before, you know. And Brian told me one about a story
31:48
that the Beatles song she Loves You, where Paul said to Brian that his
31:53
father had been out for the day and when he returned home, him and
31:59
John had written she loves You. So Paul asked his father, have a
32:04
listen, to tell me what you think you know? So they start singing
32:07
she loves You, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then his father goes
32:12
to him, Oh, look, it's very good, Paul. But I
32:15
think there is enough americanisms in the vernacular right now. Why don't you consider
32:19
transing it too. She loves you. Yes, yes, yes, I
32:23
love those stories. Are those are gold because you've heard every story that's out
32:28
there from those guys. But again, those the hired guns, guys like
32:31
that that are hanging around in the studio and they get some of these stories
32:35
that we don't know because nobody's ever come to them. So I always love
32:38
talking to those guys. How about there. Well, there's one on The
32:42
Shadows that you have in the book too, because you said when you first
32:45
picked up the guitar in nineteen eighty one, one of the albums you now
32:47
consider your guitar school was The Shadows twenty Golden Grades from nineteen seventy seven,
32:52
and you eventually had the chance to interview guitarist Tank Marvin. And there's a
32:59
saying never meet your heroes because sometimes they don't live up to what you hoped.
33:02
This was not the case for you, and you led right away with
33:06
how much of a fan of his work you were, and and he was.
33:09
He was delighted to hear that, and a great interview from then on.
33:14
This is one where you broke the twenty minute rule, right, that's
33:15
that's right, Yes, yes, the twenty minute rule. I got to
33:19
talk to him a bit longer than because he just really connect with me now
33:22
and and you know, taught me some great stories about the Shadows and the
33:24
recording process. And you know, then later on, as I said in
33:27
the book, he starts asking me about my band. You know, he's
33:30
really interested, you know, and what I do. You know, it's
33:31
like, wow, you know, someone's you know, I'm not here.
33:34
It's not about me, it's about you. But this is, you know,
33:36
a guy who's influenced nearly every British guitar player off that generation, you
33:40
know, and he's asking about my music. You know, so absolutely wonderful
33:45
guy. And yes, there is a sign never meet your heroes because you
33:46
might be disappointed. And that day certainly wasn't disappointed. You know. It's
33:51
interesting because I got to interview Hank again. A couple of years ago.
33:54
I did an article for Guitar World if people want to sit its online about
33:58
the history of instrument music and and and you know, we chatted again and
34:02
he sort of remembered that interview, and again he was just as wonderful as
34:06
he was in the day that I met him the first time. When I
34:08
wrote about in the book, and recently I actually recorded. I wrote an
34:15
original instrumental that's a tribute to the Shadows with all a sort of same sort
34:19
of style of music, and I snowed off to Hank. You know,
34:22
Hank gave it endorsement, so he's actually endorsed it, which is fantastic someone
34:27
actually released that at some point in the future. And but just to have
34:30
his endorsement, it just means so much for me, because I mean here
34:34
I am as a fan learning the guitar from from him. Later on years
34:37
later, get to interview him, you know, do an article and that
34:40
sort of stuff. And then again years later, I write a track that's
34:45
endorsed by him, and it's almost like coming full circling. I mean,
34:50
how how has sort of um, you know, it's it's like a pinch
34:52
me moment or the thing. And I was like, Wow, you know
34:54
a truly wonderful guy. I mean, you don't get any bigger and sort
35:00
of Hank Marvin, Yeah, any other gets that you'd love to get,
35:05
any other musicians that you love to interview him or Look, there's there's been
35:08
a couple I loved. I mean, Jimmy Page be one I love to
35:12
say, especially because I you know, I know he's into sort of like
35:16
a the occult stuff like Crowley or some stuff, and I spent some years
35:21
sort of into that sort of you know, stuff that he likes. So
35:23
that'd be interesting topic to sort of talk to him about. But again,
35:27
he sort of just can't go in there and just start talking to him about
35:30
that because he's very you know, he doesn't talk much about that. But
35:32
Jimmy's great. I love to talk to him. And Dave Goolmore is another
35:36
one I would love to because I think Dave Gormore is just I think here
35:39
was so many stories that we haven't heard. You know, we always hear
35:43
the same thing about Pink Floyd. I think if we sit down and just
35:46
chat, like you know, a lot to two friends in a pub and
35:51
just share stories, I think he would tell some stories that we would have
35:53
never heard before. He just interviewed David Peton from the band Pilot. He
36:00
wrote the song Oh whoaoa, It's magic yea. Now he was he was
36:05
the basis for Jimmy Page on the sessions for the Charles Bronson movie Death Wished
36:10
Too. And he said, and I said, what was that like just
36:15
watching Jimmy Page work, you know, and he's like, you know,
36:16
because he's like, look, I'm a musician, but I'm a fan,
36:20
you know, and I'm watching this guy. And he had he said there
36:22
was a really cool moment where one of the scenes they were playing to the
36:25
they would be watching the movie and then playing while watching, and Jimmy Page
36:30
said, this is a real dark scene. Let's do something. He took
36:31
a penny. He's like, just slide it down the fret board, you
36:36
know, man, it'll make a real eerie sound. I was like,
36:37
oh, man, I'd love to be there, you know, I love
36:40
to be here when that stuff goes down. You know. You talked to
36:44
Raymond's Eric of the Doors, Brian May of Queen, George Martin too,
36:49
that's the other one you interviewed. Yeah, all of them very nice,
36:52
all of them very nice. Absolutely. I'll been lucky that since there's not
36:54
been a couple of interviews where you know, I sort of you know,
36:57
you sort of get they flighted off them. You've been you know, you've
37:00
interviewed a person. One of them is a Gene Simmons, just for the
37:04
fact that you know, Jean's always been about the commercialization of Kiss. You
37:08
know, it's always talking about you know, every I think every second question.
37:12
He answered it with, go to Jane Simmons dot com or dot com
37:15
a lot fair enough, you know, I mean, I have a lot
37:19
of respectful gene because he has taken you know, something and made it into
37:22
a brand, you know sort of thing. And he admitted to myself.
37:25
He admitted that Kiss were never about really about being proficient on the instruments,
37:30
about making music that was accessible to everybody so they could become as in his
37:36
own words, kissed anity created a new religions, and he'd rather be considered
37:40
a performer that's right, rather than that's right. Absolutely, so, you
37:45
know, and he admitted to m you know, there's been times on some
37:47
of the early albums where they swapped instruments and it's not who you think is
37:51
client. For example, Astral you might think it's him, it's actually someone
37:53
else. You know, it could be say Paul Stanley, so um.
37:57
But yeah, so George Martin was absolutely wonderful. Again, I mean he's
38:02
royalty, okay, yeah, absolutely, so, you know, he had
38:07
there was about one hundred journalists on the list to interview him, and he
38:09
shortlisted down to about twenty interviews I think it was, and I was one
38:14
of them. And I never forget the day I got the email saying you're
38:15
being chosen, hand picked by Sir George Martin to interview him, and I
38:20
go wow. So I spent the next few weeks just researching as much as
38:24
I could, because I thought, right, what do you ask a man
38:27
He's probably been asked every single question about the Beatles possible? So I just
38:31
tried to find together some questions that were engaging and that were different as far
38:37
as I could from my research, And yeah, it went down really well.
38:38
We spent half an hour to get up. He answered all my questions.
38:42
He spoke about Revolve, respect that John Lennon, spoke about his favorite
38:46
guitar player being Jeff Beck, you know, absolutely fantastic guitar player, and
38:51
just spoke about the industry in general, how it was actually heading down the
38:54
road to where it is now. He's sort of really predicted where the instry
38:58
was going. I mean, he was just a maze and how he sort
39:00
of could say that it wasn't down in a good place, you know,
39:02
how you know, how we got now Spotify and how the artists are sort
39:06
of missing out on stuff. So wonderful interview and I've got to meet Lady
39:09
Martin and yeah, one of the harglots. Really that's a consistency with all
39:15
three of those guys, Raymond's Eric, Brian May, and George Martin.
39:20
They all enjoy talking about their most famous project or what they're most connected to.
39:25
Raymond's Eric loved flying the flag of the Doors, Brian May loves flying
39:30
the flag of Queen. And George Martin apparently from what you're saying, you
39:34
know, proud of what the you know, what he did with the Beatles,
39:37
because that can sometimes you have artists that don't necessarily want to go back
39:40
and talk about a particular period of their life, but they always are proud
39:45
of that. But that's why Queen Queen is still so big. The Doors
39:49
Raymond's Eric, he was the guy that would always be out there praising the
39:52
work of Jim Morrison and the Doors. Absolutely, and it's scot when I
39:57
talk about that, because it is you know, I mean, it's a
39:58
legacy that leave you and and they're associated with that. I mean, Sir
40:00
George mart will always be associated with the Beatles regardless known as a fifth Beatle,
40:05
you know. I mean he's done so much other stuff too, Like
40:07
you know, he produced the Jeff Beck albums, you know, a couple
40:08
of his albums there, and all these other artists. But at him today,
40:13
it's the Beatles legacy he'll be most aligned with all the time. Now,
40:16
you interviewed a musician who was from a city not far from me here
40:20
in Connecticut, and I mentioned him earlier. John Mayor's from Fairfield, Connecticut.
40:23
So he's like forty five minutes to an hour from where I am here.
40:28
Yeah, so you interviewed him prior to when he fell into the trappings
40:30
of fame and fortune, and he admitted that too. Can you talk about
40:35
your experiences with him? That's a really great, great story with John.
40:39
So John came out to Australia just as the record the album I'm Lost Gone
40:47
Blank now, the album that sort of started doing getting traction on radio.
40:53
Okay, so this is the one that he broke through with. Was it
40:57
squares or something? What's the yes? Yes, that's right, Yes,
41:00
it's okay, yeah, I can look it up. So he came So
41:02
when he came out, no one knew who he was. I didn't even
41:06
know who was I just got this press release saying, you know, this
41:07
singer songwriter from America has got this album called UM and you know he's coming
41:12
out to do a showcase. So I was invited to the showcase. And
41:15
there's only about twenty people at this really sort of dingy, sort of inner
41:20
city sort of bar, and most of them who were there were more interested
41:23
in having their their free alcohol and you know, just sort of checking out
41:28
who this guy guitar player. So John's on stage, he's he's playing all
41:31
he's tunes. You know, no one's sort of really taking much note,
41:35
and you know, I can sense that, you know, this is a
41:37
guy who's really extremely you know, talented on the guitar AND's got some great
41:43
songs. And he got to the last song and he could see that he
41:45
wasn't winning many people away ever, so he decided to throw in a cover
41:50
of Stevie ray Vaughn's um Lenning Right and which is He just played it and
41:57
all of a sudden, everybody just swum in front and go wow. And
42:00
he just this amazing cover, one of the best covers of it I've ever
42:05
sort of heard from from an artist, and he won everybody over and I
42:09
knew straight down. I thought, well, this guy is going to be
42:12
going places. So what happened then was six months later he broke He was
42:16
he was becoming a really big star in Australia. So he came out again
42:20
and I got to sort of interview him again. He remembered, he remembered
42:23
it and in detail where we were, what we talked about. I thought,
42:27
wow, this guy is pretty switched on. He remembers me. He
42:30
must have done hundreds of interviews since then. And so we got on really
42:34
well, and he opened up to me and he just kept getting bigger and
42:37
big and bigg And then the following year came out again and he asked for
42:40
me again personally and yeah, and he offered me no tickets again to the
42:45
show, and so and then after I think it was the fourth time he
42:49
got so big that the sort of he started fall into the trappings of sort
42:52
of fame and fortune. He sort of you could see that shift in him,
42:54
how he's becoming a bit more sort of not who he was at the
42:59
start. So and unfortunately I lost contact with him ever since. So um,
43:01
but I think he's now starting to sort of go back to where it
43:05
was at the beginning his guitar planes. I think he's gone for the whole
43:07
sort of celebrity cycle and coming out of it back to where he was.
43:12
Well, what's interesting is now he's with Dad in company and he won over
43:15
Dad fans. I saw him performing and it's it's it's legit. By the
43:21
way room for squares, that was the room for squares, that's the way
43:23
on stage. You know, he's you could just tell he's part of an
43:27
ensemble. Like he's he's humbled, and he's he's learned his lesson and I
43:31
think he writes about it in his music. You know, he learned.
43:35
You know, he's he's a kid. You know, he's a kid,
43:37
and all of a sudden he's got all his fame and fortune and he was
43:39
dating these famous girls and you know that's right. Yeah, And I'll never
43:43
forget every time he interviewed. You know, I got to interview when he
43:45
showed me his latest tattoo. So he started out with having like I think
43:49
one or two tattoos when he came at six months later he had another of
43:52
five and six and then when he came out of year later he had another
43:54
and he just kept showing. He says, oh this is where I got
43:57
that at Its just amazing saying his whole story happening in front of me.
44:00
So the music journalism business has changed quite a bit since you began. You
44:02
know, print publications were taken over by the Internet. So what's the most
44:07
challenging part of being a right journalist today and what are the upsides to it?
44:12
Yeah, it has changed a lot. I mean nowadays I think anybody
44:15
writes a blog, I think they're a music journalists. And it's not because
44:17
it doesn't work that way. Man. Yes, we've got access, we
44:21
can you know, write a blog in US and stuff, but that doesn't
44:22
necessarily make you a music journalist. I mean there's I have a lot more
44:24
involved in that sort of stuff. So but you know, having said that,
44:28
there, I've come across some great blogs written by really passionate fans,
44:31
which you could tell, you know, they really know their their artists.
44:35
So and that's wonderful, you know. But yeah, it has changed a
44:38
lot. It becomes a lot. It's a lot harder now to sort of
44:40
get into this um. You know, I've been lucky that I've got a
44:45
background and I've done you know, all of different magazines, and but nowadays,
44:51
yeah, it's it's much more people tend to sort of read magazines online.
44:54
And one thing I have noticed with the print editions is back in the
44:58
day a lot for example guitar, if you go back to the eighties,
45:00
I had, the interviews are really in depth, really long. Now interviews
45:05
in a lot of magazines and much more shorter because the tension span has changed
45:09
and everybody's on the phone, so they don't want to read something that goes
45:12
to like three pages. I'll read something in one page. So it's a
45:15
lot more challenging to write a story within a certain amount of words compared to
45:20
what you could do years ago. So it has changed. But the benefit
45:23
now is, yes, there's a lot more outlets out there's a lot more
45:25
people can see your work now, you know, like a lot of print
45:30
publications will once it's been out on the streets, they will upload the articles
45:35
online. So people can't get to sort of read it. Who can't get
45:37
a hard copy. So nowadays I can get a lot more people will be
45:40
able to read my articles because not only it's in print, it's also online,
45:44
so there's a lot of benefits to it, you know, as well
45:46
as the non benefits. I'm sure you've gotten people that reached out to you
45:51
about an article you wrote like ten years ago because it's still on the internet.
45:54
Yeah. Absolutely, I do you know and they say, oh,
45:58
you wrote this article you know, only go oh you almost forgot. Yeah
46:00
that's right, yeah, because I mean I've done so much instead. I
46:02
mean it's it's hard to remember everything, everything you do. But it's great
46:07
when they do that because you sort of go oh really, and you check
46:08
it out again and go oh wow, and it brings that memories again,
46:10
you know. And it's interesting because sometimes you'll see an old interview and you
46:15
go, well, I'll interview that person, say a year ago, and
46:17
here he is where I did interview, say ten years ago, such a
46:21
different person. You know, Like it's really really interesting. Here's one question
46:24
from one writer to another. My biggest challenge was always the lead. If
46:29
I can come up with the lead, something that would point. My dad
46:30
always taught me that my dad was a writer. You got out a good
46:34
lead. Once you get that lead, everything else do you start with that?
46:37
Do you build the body of the article first and then say, let
46:39
me write the lead based on what I write. How does that work?
46:43
Good question? I struggle with that. Yeah, I think once I'll have
46:46
the lead happening, once I've got that intro sentence that really grabs your attention,
46:52
it all flows. If I can't get that, I can be honest
46:53
days. I mean, sometimes I'll just start writing the body off, you
46:58
know, the interview and do a story. But he has to have a
47:01
lead somewhere to start, you know, so it's coming up with that.
47:05
You know. I eventually get there, obviously, but sometimes it's easy.
47:08
Sometimes it's a lot harder, you know. You know, I think one
47:12
interview took me one week just to come up the lead. But once I
47:15
got the lead, I wrote it in a few hours ago. Yeah,
47:16
but it is funny too, there's no explanation behind it. Like sometimes I'll
47:21
feel just inspired to write something. It's just flowing on me. And other
47:23
times I'll just sit there and I'll just stare at it and it's just like
47:28
nothing, I don't feel anything, and he's starting to get pissed off.
47:30
It's like come on, or you know, well, maybe you'll do this,
47:34
Like do you put on some music, something to kind of inspire you,
47:37
get you in the right mindset, something that I attend to sort of
47:38
walk away from it, just go forward, to go out and do something
47:42
different, you know, or play me guitar whatever. Just something that just
47:45
takes my brain away from trying to think, because yeah I can. I'm
47:47
like you, I sit there and I go, this is not gone anyway.
47:51
You know, I can sit there for an now and it just frustrates
47:53
me. But onlothes you must have had too, Like where you've had articles
47:58
where you're you're happy with it. You have all other articles where you're like,
48:00
no, this, this is it, but then somebody says, I
48:05
love that article you wrote, you know, like, oh well I thought
48:07
there was okay, you know when I was happy over the other. Like
48:09
the audience, you know, when they read it, they receive it differently
48:13
than when you write it. Absolutely. Look, you know you always say
48:15
your best work is when you do now, you know, like you're always
48:19
trying to improve on it, And that's true. Like you know, I
48:21
look back in some of my early interviews and go, wow, you know,
48:22
like you I would have written that differently. But that's how it is.
48:25
Not music you know when I you know, Jimmy, I'm music.
48:29
If any artists you talk, any artists outside of the same thing have been
48:32
they look back on on say an album they did a few years ago,
48:36
you know way that they say, I wish I did that differently. But
48:38
again, where do you stop? You know you could do that with everything.
48:42
You know, you'll never stop say I look at as a moment in
48:45
time, that's what you did. That's where you're at, that's your work.
48:49
Be happy with it, and now you know you're in a different place.
48:52
So the book is out now, Joe Matre's Backstage Past the Grit and
48:55
the Glamour, and it's basically available wherever books are sold, the Amazon,
48:59
all the usual places, right, that's right, Yeah, Amazon, Amazon
49:01
is probably the best place you can get it. But yeah, any any
49:05
place that sells a good book, you'll be able to get it. And
49:07
where can people find your work and find you online? They can find me.
49:10
I've got a website just Joe material dot com. I'm on Facebook,
49:15
which you can find me. I'm very accessible. I'm always happy to hear
49:17
from fans and people can send me friend request and you know, we can
49:21
chat about music whatever I'm always happy to answer any questions people may have,
49:24
you know, about my book or my music or infant music general. M
49:30
Yeah, because I look, I always believe that the beauty about the Internet
49:34
is you can interact with others and fans and people. And I think being
49:38
a writer, as you know yourself too, it's a very lonely existence.
49:40
You know, you put your work out there and you never hear anything.
49:44
You don't know whether you know people enjoyed it. So when you see comments
49:46
online or you know, people write you just an email said I really enjoyed
49:50
your work, you feel good. You go, oh, I'm doing something
49:52
that's you know, given back to the community or what you know, if
49:54
someone's getting something from it, which is fantastic. So yeah, I'm always
49:59
always about communy. Katon all right, Joel, thanks so much. This
50:01
was great. Thank you so much for interest. Mate. I'm really glad
50:05
you are. You enjoyed the book and some great questions, really really great
50:08
quies. I love it, you know, get asked questions like that.
50:12
I mean it puts me in the opposite seat where you know, you get
50:15
quizzed by someone who's very knowledgeable like you, and you really read the book,
50:19
and again that's that's a good thing about he can tell a good journalist
50:22
if someone who's actually done their research or actually knows what they're talking about,
50:27
you know, and you definitely did that. I really appreciate it, so
50:30
thank you so much for the interest, and it's been a pleasure to be
50:32
on your podcast. That's it. It's in the books.