Latest / The Sober Creative Podcast / Episode 075 - Can’t Stay Numb: Asa Anderson on Music, Mental Health, and Feeling It All

Transcript

Episode 075 - Can’t Stay Numb: Asa Anderson on Music, Mental Health, and Feeling It All · The Sober Creative Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome everyone to The Sober Creative podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Every guest has done some version of the same hard thing.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: They got honest about what alcohol was costing them.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Some quit, some cut back, some don't use a word for it at all.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: What they share is that they're creating from a space that's actually theirs.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Josh Woll, and I'm excited to bring you today's guest.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Asa Anderson is a Los Angeles-based singer-songwriter,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: guitarist, and therapist whose music moves between soul, pop, folk, and funk.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Four years sober,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Asa writes openly about recovery,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: relationships,
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: mental health, and the process of learning to feel rather than escape.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: When Asa got sober,
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: one of his biggest fears was that sobriety would be the death of his creativity.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Instead,
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: he found that being present enough to feel everything gave him more to write from
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: and not less.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: His new single, Can't Stay Numb, comes out November 6 and grew directly from that realization.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Asa has also lived with Bipolar I for about a decade,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: and his mental health journey has included hospitalization,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: treatment, and learning how substances affected his stability.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Today, he balances his work as a therapist with continuing to build his life as an artist.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Asa, welcome to the show.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, did it freeze?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Might be having technical difficulties, y'all.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is what happens when you're alive.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's coming back.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he's gone again.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for hanging with us, y'all.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get through this.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let me try inviting him again.
• 2:45
  There we go.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I just had to click a few buttons.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel like it's working?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I guess there's a little bit of a lag, but you can hear me okay?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can hear you okay.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm willing to deal with a little bit of lag compared to what was happening earlier.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, having you totally off and me improvising, I don't think it would have worked as well.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this is great.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's awesome to have you, man.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you coming on.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you want to tell us,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: walk us back in the early days of Asa,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: when you started drinking or using, and what was childhood and stuff like for you?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, yeah.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my parents divorced when I was three, and...
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was sort of like a pre-verbal era,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think the way that I expressed myself,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: it couldn't necessarily be through words or sentences, but more through art.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I was actually a pretty avid drawer, like illustrator.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of felt like the big feelings of the divorce, I was...
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Early on, I figured out that drawing or doing something creative was my way to process that.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was in junior high school, I was in a choir class.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: They one day brought out recorders to the whole class,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know, those Sort of flutes
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: that you play that are very basic.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't call it talent, but that's what I played.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just found out that like,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I took that home and while people were playing sort of the basic like Mary Had
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: a Little Lamb situation, I ended up learning stuff from the radio and using my ear.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so my parents were like, let's put you in band.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I went to the jazz band as a seventh grader and picked the tenor saxophone.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I did have some guidance and some lessons, but a lot of it was very intuitive for me.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I also picked up the drums when I was 14, self-taught with the drums.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And in a way,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that music kind of made me make sense of the world more than talking
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: to somebody one-on-one about how I feel.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which is very ironic because now I'm an associate marriage
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: and family therapist working on my hours.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: those bigger feelings were easier for me to process through the act
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: of playing and writing music.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love that it was so intuitive for you.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: It just came naturally.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of wonder where that comes from.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You do, yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it chooses you in a way, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when did you start using alcohol or what was your substance of choice?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I experimented with a lot of different things.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I actually was raised in a pretty affluent neighborhood around Brentwood Palisades.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: that's a little dangerous because that's where a lot of kids have more resources,
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or they can actually, you know, get their hands on substances and Things like that.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember being 14 at the UCLA
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Arcade with my friend and we both decided
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: that it would be a great idea to both finish 40s before playing video games.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it just,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: there was the throwing up,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: there was like, I was,
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know, like,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And embarrassingly just like falling off of the controller of the arcade machine.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is one person asked, are you drunk?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I kind of fell into the skateboard culture a little bit, which...
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people would experiment and use there.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting because I don't know what the statistic is.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: You might actually be able to help me.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: When your brain actually does mature, it's not until you're in your late 20s, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't specific statistic, but that sounds right.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back on, you know, I also was experimenting with some psychedelics, um, mushrooms.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I had to have my first mushroom trip when I was in the eighth grade.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty early.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, yeah, it is.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, uh,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that during that time where I fell in love with music and I also fell
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: in love with like skateboard culture and also
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: that included like psychedelics
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: and drinking and just in general, just like partying.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's, I think, uh,
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: The cannabis use was something that made its way in.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Never a good idea in retrospect, but combining that with alcohol.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I just kind of associated all of it with a little bit of a,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know, a fuck you, like an angry,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: angsty teen.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Even though
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I had
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: such a supportive family and everything like that,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I actually was born in 83,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: so it gives you an idea where I'm at now,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: but listening to Nirvana and Idolizing Kurt Cobain and a lot
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: of these tortured artists
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: kind of informed a bit
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: of how I would
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: view music
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: more broadly.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Later in life, we zoomed forward
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Early 20s.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had an instance where I had a cannabis-induced psychosis.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that it doesn't happen for everybody, but it is becoming more and more prevalent.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: People are looking at patients in the hospital and seeing that some of them actually aren't just
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like psychosis from meth,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: but in actuality, there is a lot of that going on, the cannabis-induced psychosis.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Florence, she's got experience here.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: So she says your brain doesn't fully develop mature until age 32.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for that, Florence.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it would have been, in retrospect, a lot better to know that fact and take it to heart.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I mean, we're probably using it way more extensively during that time of development.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, that's interesting.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you said in,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think the last part was with the musicians.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're around the same age.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm 44 and so I was 81.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: and so like listening to that music and moving through the world and such with,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: emotions that,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: a bit more challenging to deal with,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: you know, so these, you know, drugs and alcohol and the cannabis psychosis.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, can you talk a little bit more about that, of what happened?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up actually going to USC to major in music as a jazz studies major.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the way that I approached music would,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would get high,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know, get a little bit tipsy and then kind of let that be my starting point.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, now I can...
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now I can start writing or start performing.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, did you feel
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: like you needed to take the edge off by having it to start?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that I had a lot of stage fright too, being up there.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's very true.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think...
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Also, just historically,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Miles Davis and John Coltrane,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: all the great jazz musicians, they were linked to heroin use.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I never got into,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: but I was just mentioning it to say that a lot of the people that I idolized,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of noticed that this is part of their story,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: that using substances,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Was, you know, their way of kind of moving around in the musical world.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think that
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would just like...
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would do that for the stage fright.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would do that just for inspiration, just to kind of like, oh, I'm not really feeling creative.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let me smoke and then let's
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: get down to practicing.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's kind of a funny joke.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share it with you.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's...
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just say,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: there's this very prominent jazz pianist in the hotel lounge,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: and there's this kid listening to him, and he's dazzling the keys.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's just blowing people's minds with these arrangements and these compositions.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's an intermission.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: The musician gets up from the keyboards,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: From the piano and then proceeds to go get completely hammered at the bar.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just like,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: the kid is seeing him order drink after drink and just,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know, he's like, what's going to happen?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So during the second set, he goes back to the piano.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he plays just as beautifully and, you know, immaculately as the first set.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the kid goes up to him at the end of the set and he says,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know, I just wanted to say, like, I really appreciate your music.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed that,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: you were like having a couple drinks or quite a few drinks between the first
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: and second set.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you sounded just great in both sets.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: How is that possible?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the guy says, well, in order to play drunk, you've got to practice drunk.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that to say that, like, you know, it's people...
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that I could be more creative with the use of alcohol,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: with cannabis, psychedelics.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: I bet too,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: having such a strong belief around that is why on the intro you said you were afraid
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: that going sober would kill that creativity.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was worried that I would just be left flat.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I actually was diagnosed bipolar.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was around the same time that I started realizing
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: that my specific brain did not really mix well with substances, even though...
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had that diagnosis.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was assigned some meds.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really like the way that I was feeling,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: so I went off of them,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: then had another manic break,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: and then I got to the point where I was like,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: okay, my My physiology and my brain is a sensitive computer system.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I just need to have the right program and not deviate from that.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: In actuality, I found that I've got four years now.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, congrats.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I realize that feeling the feelings,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: that actually you can really tap into it deeper than when you're numbing or
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: when you're using it as a cover for...
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that there's a book that really helped me along my journey,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: which was called The War of Art.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: By Steven Pressfield.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he basically is just kind of,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: it's kind of like the book is a kick in the ass,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: just saying like,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: professionals don't wait to be inspired to begin writing
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: or begin their creative work.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's the amateur that
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I need to feel inspired in this moment in order to pick up the guitar or whatever it is.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of like a kick in the ass.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I read that along with The Artist's Way.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So The Artist's Way was much more like,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Nurturing and like, you know, gave you creativity exercises.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the war of art was very much just like the, you know, the kick in the butt.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like you both supported each other their own way.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of the polarities on the yin and yang, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: The masculine and the feminine and, um,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that... Go ahead.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, I was waiting for you.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're starting.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're good.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really powerful when I came out of treatment.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in treatment several times.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say about 10 years ago,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I came out of
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: treatment and actually wrote more songs than I did
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: when I was getting loaded.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a really powerful thing.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, huh, okay,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: so maybe you need to be in an altered state or you need to have some chaos
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: in your life.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: To be creative is not a thing.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other thing.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people think that the artist archetype is one in
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: which I think people think they suffer so much interpersonally in the relationships
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: that that's how they become amazing artists because they're drawn from that chaos.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was recently kind of delving into Buddhism and just the idea that things are impermanent.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Things kind of come and go.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're in a meditation and you see a thought labeling it positive,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: negative,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: or neutral, and then just sending it off and moving it along,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: that's kind of...
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Also helped me in my recovery just realize that those cravings and those...
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think also being on medication was a stigma that I had to work through.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: think it can be a journey for a lot of people to find the right medication
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: in order to feel stable.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: My journey was certainly at least a couple year long journey of trying things,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: not feeling great, going off of them.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have a regimen that's working now and I feel,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: as I said,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: my computer system is operating and I'm really happy that I've been
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: as creatively active as I have been.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it just feeds it.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I share that with you, too.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I,
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: for so many years,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've dealt with depression, and
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: can't recall when it actually started.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it started in my teens.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: But, yeah,
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: I had the stigma around medication, too,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: as though it's like a lot of shame of like, oh,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: there's something wrong with me that I got to go on,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: you know, like, And I avoided it probably for longer than I should have.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I started taking Prozac and it worked great.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you had to work through the milligram sizes because
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: it builds up in your system.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like you said, it's like a journey of trying to figure out what works.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I was on it for about four or five years and then Went off of it for a year and
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: then could tell like things were not feeling as good.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went back on it a number of months ago.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: it's just like, you know, someone breaks their leg, you know, and need crutches.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna be like, well, I don't wanna use crutches.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like, It's there for a reason to help.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: The metaphor I use is like a diabetic and taking insulin.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like a diabetic is not going to not take their insulin.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I want to stay alive.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the...
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the memories that I had during those more tumultuous times has been
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: compost
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: for creative ideas.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: think that you don't have to be actively suffering in order to tap
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: into those energies and tell a story.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's all valid and it's all...
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: What brought us here,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely believe that
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: being sober is kind
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: of like my highest self being acknowledged.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that my highest self doesn't want to reach for something outside of him,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: outside of me, to feel good.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think my highest self would want me to figure out ways to internally resource and
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: whether that's through meditating or yoga or boxing.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think I hope to eventually work with creatives on their mental health
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: because Creativity and mental illness are so, that link is so undeniably there.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to share a quote with you.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Joseph Campbell quote.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he says that the psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which, yeah, kind of points to how thin that line is between genius and
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: instability.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so good.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I mean,
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree with what you're saying too, and you said it so beautifully.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Every single one of us,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: we're just mirrors off of,
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: kind of God's creation and that,
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: they're gifts that we all have,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: and it's our journey,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: this path of kind of getting more in touch with ourselves to allow that
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: to come out more to where it's like,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not ashamed of who I am You know,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: what I say and what I do and just be able to express that and be able to feel
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: the emotions that are hard, too.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so, yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just like you said, feeling the emotions.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think this is another attributable quote to somebody in particular,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: but There is a saying that expression is the opposite of depression.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that's choose however you want to express,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to move your body in an ecstatic dance or if you want to do
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: a journal entry or write a song or paint something,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that my future work as a therapist,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely going to be incorporating some of those expressive elements.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's like when you can alchemize it,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: that's like the word that I like to use lately.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like taking the pain, feeling it, alchemizing it into something.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes, yeah, yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that in the past I would have felt the feeling and then tried to numb it.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's, yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because, I mean, it's like you feel it and it's there and you don't want it to stay there.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but it's like you can't get rid of it, you know, instantly.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so...
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta have some type of movement,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: some type of creative outlet that you can process it and let it come out.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me about Can't Stay Numb.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Where did that inspiration,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: all the writing and such, tell me more about that song that's coming out.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the song is pretty much verbatim about my sobriety.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the central lines in the song is
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: that I thought
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: that would disappear if I weren't using.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really love the production.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: My music school buddy, Eric Curtis, helped me produce it.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Eric is an amazing bassist, session bassist.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: He tours with Michael Buble.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's played with Melissa Etheridge and Shakira.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he has his own studio in Glendale.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was watching him.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was playing the bass in that.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if anybody wants to follow me on Instagram,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: it's AsaAndersonMusic,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm sure that you can link that into the show notes or whatever.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So Eric and I produced it together.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think of like,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think this particular song isn't linked to one specific story per se,
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: but it is linked to this idea where I was kind of at the end of my,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know, whatever comes up must come down, right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you go through that so many times where you just realize like,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to clear my system and feel the feelings.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it turned out that when I did get sober, I didn't get any less creative.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've been super happy with what I've been writing, which is super awesome.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a fear that a lot of people have that are creative, is that if they aren't...
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, high during a session or whatever, they're not going to perform as well.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's sort of like a, it, it's, it's a really fun track.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that people are going to,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's very dancey and,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: and funky and funk bass is like, I have a soft spot for that dude.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, yeah.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I w I was actually studying bass at USC and, uh,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite music is Motown because
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: all that music from the 60s for Stevie Wonder
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: and then Temptations and Marvin Gaye and all this music
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: from Motown is essentially jazz and Session musicians playing pop music.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So what that means is that there's such complexity and interesting arrangements
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: and interesting parts that That comes through
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: and I just love how adventurous those arrangements are too
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: because I think now we have our sort of verse,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, you know, template.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: anyway, I was saying all that to say that I love the bass and this one really moves.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: He really nailed the bass part.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really good.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a chance to
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: listen to it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Does it come out next Friday, but people can't listen to it right now, right?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do have some clips on my Instagram.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I do have clips on social media.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, okay.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so people can get a sense of it.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'll probably post this tomorrow,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: but I'll put the link to the song back in the show notes whenever it comes out.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're four years now,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: and you were telling me that
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: before you would write or play,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: you would need to Use something.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, how do you compare going into a creative
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: direction now?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think just taking the sort of utilitarian approach of, like,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is it Woody Allen that said like 90% of success is showing up?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And just for better or for worse,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes when I was using,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would think that there would be an idea that sounded amazing.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then the next day I was like, ooh, this is not a thing.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot more.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot more.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot more discernment now.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And also just a clear mind for, I think my lyric writing has
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: exponentially improved.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: think the motivation has changed as
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: well because I'm now,
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: With the advent of social media, there's zero privacy and everything is everywhere.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like walking my walk as a sober musician is important for me
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: because I know that there are other people that I'm going to inspire.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe some of those musicians that are kind of struggling with substance abuse can...
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Look to me to see, oh, here's somebody who is still creating and still...
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've been releasing a song every six weeks for a long time.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not an easy thing to do.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's studio time, it's pre-production, it's recording.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I've been keeping that cadence up.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just been feeling really great to kind of just approach music almost like the gym.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just going to show up and lift what I can lift.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if I have a shitty day, that's okay.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I show up to the gym in the parking lot And I don't get out of the car.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just take a little nap and then I wake up and I look over and I'm like,
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: okay, that was good enough.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I go back home.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's like it's not,
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's not,
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: you can't be 100% all the time even though it's like we want to.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think, yeah, it's just showing up.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's so true.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that Yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to say,
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the space that you get from sobriety just allows you to do so much more.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel that.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: like there's a bigger gap between the stimulus and the response.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's this book, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he was actually part of the Nazi death camp.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he saw basically his parents get killed, just the worst, like his sister, I believe.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he...
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: He basically was trying to figure out what quality kept the people
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: who were surviving, surviving.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of down to this mental strength because he said
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: that he would get tortured by his captives.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the one thing that they couldn't ever take away was just his dignity
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: and his soul and who he was inside.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he developed this idea that there is a gap between the stimulus and the response
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: where you have something bad happen.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a space that's between the stimulus and the response and that's the space in
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: which you choose how you're going to react.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what he would do is he would choose to mentally
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward into the future, talking to auditoriums of college students about his experience.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: And believe it or not, he made it out.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And he wrote this book called Man's Search for Meaning, and he did it exactly that.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was lecturing to college students all over.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that the sobriety for me gives me a little bit more of that gap of how
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: to choose to respond.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a lot of what I do in the Reset program that I offer and There's
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: a 31-day email sequence,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: and each email that people get in the morning starts with a one-question prompt
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: that really allows the space and the 31 days to develop an awareness
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: that you didn't have before you started.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a huge proponent into understanding why you drink in the first place.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Just wondering what those thoughts are that's leading to
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: the emotional state of mind.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Ace, this has been so good.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate you.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that sounds super powerful.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely...
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, talking, talking is,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, dude, it's been great.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait for people to hear the track.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I know, I know.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I, I,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love that everybody's been pressing the emojis and seeing the different colors
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: and unicorns and such pop up.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I really appreciate you all spending time with us.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: So.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you have any questions for Ace02, please go ahead and put them in the chat.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you want to let everybody know,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: yeah, just what's coming up next.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd be happy to.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this song, Can't Stay Numb, drops on all digital platforms on the 6th of November.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually playing a record release show or a single release show in Venice,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: California at the Venice West.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: This will be my fourth time headline.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I got to pick my openers.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So some really amazing talent.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's going to be on the 18th.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: All this is On my website,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: on my Instagram,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: uh, website is asaandersonmusic.com and my Instagram is asaandersonmusic.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I'm excited for the release show.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a great band that's lined up playing with a new guitarist who is, uh,
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: he's a powerhouse and,
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: uh, This is actually going to be a really special show on the 18th.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, I'll make sure to get some footage and be sure to send it your way.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to see it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: I can only imagine the energy of that feels like being sober on
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: that stage performing and feeling it and just being in that moment.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate everything that you shared and reaching out to come on.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and thanks everyone for joining us.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, have a great rest of your week.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: See you next week.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Bye, y'all.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.