Latest / NO FILTER / Balance between three branches has been _pushed to its limits_ under Trump admin_ Journalist(MP3_160K)

Transcript

Balance between three branches has been _pushed to its limits_ under Trump admin_ Journalist(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Joining us now New York Times White House correspondent Luke Broadwater,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: former federal and federal judge and president of Dickinson College,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: John Jones, and Washington Post national investigative reporter and MSNBC
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: contributor Carol Lennig. Everybody, thank you for being here.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Luke.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It has been it has been a remarkable few months
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: for the judiciary. This administration has stepped up attacks on
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: judges and on decisions they don't like, which are coming
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: relatively frequently, because they are pushing up against the bounds
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of their constitutional authority. I am struck though, by this
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: rift between Donald Trump and Leonard Leo.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Right, Well, Donald Trump clearly is very displeased that a
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: number of judges across the country have served as a
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: check on his executive power that he can't do essentially
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: whatever he wants. And he's blaming Leonard Leo because he
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: appointed some of these judges. Right He is angry at
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: the International Trade Court for striking down his tariffs. And
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: when he reads that he appointed one of the judges
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: who made this decision, well, he can't blame himself, so
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: he has to blame someone else. He has to blame
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: the conservative legal advisors who gave him these names of
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: judges to appoint to these different courts. You know, we're
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: in a situation now in America where the coequal branches
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: of government, the balance between them, has really been pushed
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: to its limits. Congress has largely abdicated its role to
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: the presidency, and now all that's left is judges across
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: the country to say when the president is going beyond
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: the bounds of the Constitution or beyond the laws set
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: forth by Congress. And every time there's a ruling against him,
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Trump and his top allies in his administration lash out
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: at those judges and sometimes personally posting their pictures online,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: and we're seeing the ssequences of that.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Judge Jones, can you just give us a little bit
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: of background information on the Federalist Society. I imagine that
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of our viewers have, you know, at least
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a glancing knowledge of what it is, but they are
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a big deal in the legal world.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: Well, there are an uber conservative group, the most conservative group,
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: and it was a badge of honor for presidents of
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: a conservative stripe to appoint people with bona fides from
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: that from that group. And when Leonard Leo goes over
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: the rail, you know, and you hear that splash. You know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: things are really, really difficult. I was not a member
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: of the Federal Society. I was a Republican appointed by
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: George W. Bush, but I didn't belong. But plenty of
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: judges who've been appointed were. I don't know what the
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: origin of this is, but you know, I have to
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: talk about Stephen Miller too. You know, you'd think that
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: that was a Saturday Night Live skit, but it's all
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: too real. You know, he consistently Katie misstates the role
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: of judges and you know, calling fifteen twenty twenty five
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: judges communists.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: The other day it was Marxists.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: I don't know if that's a promotion or demotion at
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: this point, but because he's doing that, and this constant
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: vilification of judges who are doing their jobs under Article three,
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: you know, we now have as your first guest said,
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: judges who are at great risk they're being doxed, They're
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: family members are in jeopardy.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: This is a really serious thing to judges.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: That they're being you know, so castigated in the public
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: square and identified that they could be the victim of
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: people who have bad intentions.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Castigated, intimidated. I want to get to that in a moment,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: but I do want to tease out I think when
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: you take all this stuff together, it does raise this
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: is the question of what kind of judge Donald Trump
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: is laying the groundwork to nominate Judge Jones. Also tell me,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: if you can, the role that the American Bar Association
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: normally plays and getting a judge nominee vetted before they
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: go to Congress for approval.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Well, for generations, going back as long as I can remember, Katie,
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: the American Bar Association vets judicial nominations. Now, there was
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: a hiccup during the Nixon administration that I've read about,
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: and President Nixon had a problem with the ABA, but
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: he kept them in the loop at that point. They
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: are privy to confidential information. They interview judicial candidates. They
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: checked their professionalism if they've been judges on lower courts,
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: They talk to people who've been in front of them,
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: if they've been practicing lawyers. They want to know their
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: reputation for competency, professionalism, etc. You know, they have an
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: integral part in the appointment process, and they rate these candidates,
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: and that rating is used by the Senate in its
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: advice and consent role.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: So to strip it out, you know, is.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: Really a remarkable act by the president, perhaps not unexpected
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: with this president. And in terms of what judges he wants, Katie,
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: he wants judges that are going to agree with him
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: right down the line. This is a complete result oriented business.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Let me read what Pam Bondi said about the American
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Bar Association. She says it's lost its way and we
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: do not believe it serves as a fair arbiter of
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: judicial nominees. The Justice Department will no longer give the
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: a BA the access they've taken. For granted, a BA
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: is nonpartisan, I should I should add that you say
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: he wants justices judges that will agree with him right
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: down the line if you don't have the ABA vetting them.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And now, Leonard Leo, you don't like a guy who
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: stands on uber conservative principles because you can disagree with
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: letter Leo, and so that you don't believe he's reading
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the law right, reading the Constitution correctly, but he is
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: clearly rooted in some understanding that he has of the Constitution.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: It seems like Judge Jones that what the President and
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: his and his folks might want now is a person
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: who's not actually rooted in the law or the constitution,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: but as instead just loyal to him.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: Well, here's the worst iteration that I can think of, Katie,
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: And this is where I think the ABA is doing
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: things that are objectable to the Attorney General and others.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: They check people for their experience and their professionalism, as
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: I said, but they want to know, Frankly, has that
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: attorney or that judge been around you know? They do,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: they have the maturity and the experience that will make
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: them a good judge. What you may see at this
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: point are ideologues with no experience whatsoever in trials, never
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: been inside a room, you know, just just people who
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: are you know, come from the world of academia or whatever,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: you know, that pass some internal litmus tests getting on
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: the bench, and those are the people you don't want
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: on the trial bench. I had lots of trial experience
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: when I became a trial judge.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I think that's the way it should be.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: Appella judge is a little bit different, but typically they
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: have lots of experience. So that's what I fear, and
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: you know, it's going to be a very secretive kind
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: of vetting processes according to the standards they have. But
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: the problem is for them, these are life appointed once
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: they're once they're confirmed by the Senate, and they, you know,
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: they want to control them.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: But good luck with that. You know, they can try
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: as hard.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: As they want to get the people that they want
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: on the bench, but I'm not so sure that they
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: can keep those strings attached to them, Carol.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I'm going to put up on the screen a list
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: of the actions that have so far been blocked during
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: this second administration. The dismantling of the CFPB, the Consumer
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Fraud Protection Board, dismantling of the Education Department, reductions and
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Federal Workers Probationary worker reductions, USA dismantling, federal grants being suspended,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: US Agency for Global Media being dismanted, the transgender military ban,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: alien Enemies acts, sanctuary city funding, the student in exchange visitors,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: ice raids, and sensitive location. Some of these things have
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: then gone on to get a stay and Donald Trump
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: has been allowed to continue with them, including the transgender
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: military ban. But I mean, I am always struck that
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump has an administration full of people that are
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: supposed to understand government and how it works, and I
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: imagine Carol, that they know that a lot of this
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: stuff is going to run up against court challenges, which
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: makes me wonder if they're trying to have these fights.
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: Definitely a fight that's being picked right, which is Donald
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: Trump and Steven Miller. You know, kudos to him for
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: his pr spin about what judges are doing instead of
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: you know, interpreting the law. Apparently Stavnan Miller wants them
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: to back the mandate that he claims President Trump has.
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: They're picking a fight to portray judges as anti democracy
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: and anti America and anti Trump, when really, you know,
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: these rulings are kind of basic. Like when there was
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: an argument about birthright citizenship, you couldn't find a lawyer
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: in the country who believed that birthright citizenship wasn't protected
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: under the Constitution. You couldn't find a lawyer in this country,
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: very few who believed that an executive order basically sending
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: people to prison in El Salvador without due process was appropriate.
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: That's why the Supreme Court acted in the middle of
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: the night to insist that there be due process rights
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: afforded to people who are being herded onto tarmacs and
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: were about to be put on planes. And sent to
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: foreign land, some of which they weren't from. The striking
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: thing about this is the re framing of what an
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: Article three judge is. That judge is a person who's
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: supposed to be above a political pressure point from the president.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: That person is supposed to be above the media discussion,
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: the public square discussion about what's happening. They're supposed to
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: read the law and figure out is there something here
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: that I need to question or reassess. Do I need
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: to have a preliminary injunction? Do I need a temporary
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: restraining order? Do I need to stay? Do I need
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: the parties to come in and give me more information?
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: That's what an Article three judge does. And you know,
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump was pretty okay with the Supreme Court's decisions
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: when it came to his immunity, but he's not okay
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: with these decisions that are consistently going against his claim.