Latest / Merryn Talks Money / Free Booze to Real Power: Why Shareholder Perks Matter

Transcript

Free Booze to Real Power: Why Shareholder Perks Matter · Merryn Talks Money

0:02
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.
0:07
Speaker 2: Hello listen, it's marenzum Zap webpr Now.
0:09
Speaker 1: I just wanted to remind you that if you are
0:12
Speaker 1: enjoying our weekly podcast, and I really hope you are,
0:15
Speaker 1: you will also probably really enjoy my weekly newsletter for
0:20
Speaker 1: Bloomberg subscribers.
0:21
Speaker 2: It hits in boxes every Saturday.
0:23
Speaker 1: This week I wrote about why investors should be very
0:26
Speaker 1: wary of AI job cuts. They might not bring companies
0:29
Speaker 1: what those companies think they will bring them. The week
0:32
Speaker 1: before that, I talked about the market complacency in the
0:34
Speaker 1: face of the Iron War, and I cover a huge
0:36
Speaker 1: amount of subjects, So do check out the link in
0:38
Speaker 1: the show notes on how to subscribe to the newsletter.
0:40
Speaker 1: It does mean signing up for a dot com subscription,
0:43
Speaker 1: but I promise.
0:43
Speaker 2: You it is worth it.
0:45
Speaker 1: You will also get access to John's Money digital newsletter
0:48
Speaker 1: and informative and actionable stories from more than two thousand,
0:52
Speaker 1: seven hundred journalists worldwide. Welcome to Meron Talks Your Money,
1:07
Speaker 1: the personal finance edition of merin Talks Money.
1:09
Speaker 2: From these bonus.
1:10
Speaker 1: Podcasts, we talk about the best strategies for making the
1:12
Speaker 1: most of your money. I'm Merri in some set web
1:15
Speaker 1: and with me senior reporter and Money Distilled author John
1:18
Speaker 1: step Back, Hi, John, I'm in right. This week, we
1:25
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about something kind of really quite old fashioned, right,
1:28
Speaker 1: We wanted to talk.
1:29
Speaker 2: About, yeah, shareholder perks. Now.
1:33
Speaker 1: I think a lot, as you know, about ownership and
1:37
Speaker 1: about how we give people a sense of ownership when
1:41
Speaker 1: they hold equities. And this is something that most people
1:45
Speaker 1: don't have, right because they hold their acts very remotely.
1:48
Speaker 1: They hold them as a giant fund through their auto enrollment,
1:52
Speaker 1: or they hold their shares in a fund on a platform,
1:55
Speaker 1: and even if they hold their shares as a single share,
1:59
Speaker 1: they still hold them on a platforms. So there isn't
2:01
Speaker 1: a certificate, there isn't something to touch. And also people
2:05
Speaker 1: don't go to agms in the way they used to
2:08
Speaker 1: in the old days, so people don't have that sense
2:11
Speaker 1: of connection to the companies in which they invest. And
2:16
Speaker 1: that's as you're getting slightly worse, not better.
2:20
Speaker 2: I think.
2:20
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen this conversations underway at
2:22
Speaker 1: the moment too it maybe there might we might see
2:25
Speaker 1: an end to the physical agm. We might see an
2:28
Speaker 1: end to the way that individuals can vote on remuneration
2:33
Speaker 1: at agms, etc. And I'm really nervous about this because
2:36
Speaker 1: I really think the physical AGM should be compulsory. I
2:38
Speaker 1: think if you should be compulsory for all companies to
2:40
Speaker 1: have physical agms, I think they should also be forced
2:43
Speaker 1: to live stream them so that you can either watch
2:45
Speaker 1: them online or you can go to them. And I
2:47
Speaker 1: also absolutely believe that tea and biscuits should be compulsory
2:53
Speaker 1: at these physical agms and active I was going to
2:56
Speaker 1: go one step further and let me do that. I
2:59
Speaker 1: would say that lunch should be compulsory, Yes, lunch, and
3:04
Speaker 1: what's more, what's more, that the AGM should start at
3:08
Speaker 1: a time that allows older people to use their discounted
3:13
Speaker 1: travel documents to get there. That's maximum participation. I think
3:20
Speaker 1: this really matters. You're meant to be anti regulation and
3:24
Speaker 1: have anti regulation, but I'm proved somethings improve some things.
3:28
Speaker 1: I'm pro participation, I'm pro shareholder democracy, and I'm pro
3:32
Speaker 1: people feeling like they have a sense of ownership. And
3:35
Speaker 1: I think that we have possibly allowed companies to get
3:38
Speaker 1: away with not really treating their individual shareholders in the
3:41
Speaker 1: way that they should. You know, if you look at
3:43
Speaker 1: the look at the history of agms, right, these used
3:46
Speaker 1: to be so much more fun. I wrote about this
3:48
Speaker 1: in that book. I wrote Ages Ago Share Power, about
3:51
Speaker 1: people turning up there with some very famous nuns, right,
3:54
Speaker 1: who used to turn up all the time. In fact,
3:56
Speaker 1: they probably still do and engage with companies on anything
3:59
Speaker 1: that that bothered them. And long before that, there were
4:02
Speaker 1: I wrote about these brothers, the Gilbert brothers, who made
4:05
Speaker 1: a big fortune in the Californian gold Rush, and they
4:08
Speaker 1: moved all their money out of pick axes, pots and
4:10
Speaker 1: pans eventually into stock markets. And then they went to
4:13
Speaker 1: literally every single shareholder meeting and complained about everything, and
4:17
Speaker 1: when they didn't get the answers, they wanted to stand
4:19
Speaker 1: up and show you work for me, you work for me,
4:22
Speaker 1: And I thought that was great. Great, it's activism, and
4:25
Speaker 1: you know the world needs more Gilbert. I will just say,
4:28
Speaker 1: before I get on to what we're actually supposed to
4:29
Speaker 1: be talking about, I wanted to point out an article
4:31
Speaker 1: I read in one of the newspapers this weekend about
4:33
Speaker 1: an order of nuns in West London. In fact, I've
4:36
Speaker 1: walked past this convent quite a lot now I come
4:38
Speaker 1: to think about it, and they are doing exactly the same,
4:41
Speaker 1: taking on, taking on corporate America who are doing things
4:43
Speaker 1: they don't like. They've been running a lot campaign against
4:46
Speaker 1: City Bank about a fossil fuels and impact on Indigenous rights,
4:50
Speaker 1: and how you might feel about that is not really
4:51
Speaker 1: the point here.
4:52
Speaker 2: The point is that if you're a shareholder.
4:54
Speaker 1: You get the perk, You get the perk of being
4:58
Speaker 1: able to use your vote, go to the a GM,
5:01
Speaker 1: have your cake, make your voice known.
5:03
Speaker 2: And I think that's really important.
5:04
Speaker 3: No, that is important. It's all about ownership, right, Yeah,
5:10
Speaker 3: It's one of the reasons we do have a lot
5:13
Speaker 3: of films we have at the moment is because people
5:15
Speaker 3: are either in a weird of or increasingly detached from
5:19
Speaker 3: that whole coincept.
5:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how do you get rid of that?
5:22
Speaker 1: How do you get rid of a distance between a
5:25
Speaker 1: person and an institution?
5:26
Speaker 2: In the UK?
5:27
Speaker 1: And you know the answer, and I know the answer,
5:30
Speaker 1: and I suspect that our listeners also know the answer.
5:33
Speaker 2: And the answer is discounted booze, isn't it though?
5:38
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't that the answer to everything? Let's be honest, Well,
5:40
Speaker 3: in the.
5:41
Speaker 1: UK, at least, I suspect that other countries have different dynamics,
5:44
Speaker 1: but here cheap booze it's the answer.
5:47
Speaker 2: And we're having this conversation.
5:49
Speaker 1: Because we noticed that Chapel Down is one of the
5:51
Speaker 1: few companies left that has a really great perk. If
5:55
Speaker 1: you're a shareholder in Chapel Down, what is it? Well,
5:57
Speaker 1: what's the discount job?
5:58
Speaker 3: Well, it's at least of when them with twenty five
6:00
Speaker 3: percent off of things what one share.
6:04
Speaker 2: Minimum shares needed one details.
6:07
Speaker 1: If you've got between one and one nine hundred and
6:10
Speaker 1: ninety nine shares, you are a silver shareholder and you
6:13
Speaker 1: got a twenty five cent diskind of you got two
6:15
Speaker 1: thousand or more shares, you're a Gold shareholder and you
6:18
Speaker 1: get discounts off all sorts of things.
6:21
Speaker 2: Under wine, there's a platinum shareholder.
6:25
Speaker 3: If you get more than ten thousand shares, you get
6:27
Speaker 3: thirty three percent of wine purchases and annual guided two
6:30
Speaker 3: vouchers for four running off at some restaurant and their shop,
6:36
Speaker 3: and various other little perks as well. So great, I mean,
6:40
Speaker 3: I actually be feeling in this neck of the woods.
6:42
Speaker 3: I actually know quite a lot of people who are
6:45
Speaker 3: fans of Chapel Down for various reasons. But barely. I
6:49
Speaker 3: mean that is the kind of thing where you would
6:51
Speaker 3: say there and you think, well, actually, if I drink
6:52
Speaker 3: any quantity of this way, and I thought, it probably
6:54
Speaker 3: is worth just owning shares purely for that.
6:59
Speaker 1: Share prices need thirty five p, right, thirty five p
7:02
Speaker 1: and you get an annual twenty five percent discount verge.
7:05
Speaker 3: I mean it's not bad, No, it's not. And I
7:07
Speaker 3: mean this, I mean, and this is the other thing
7:09
Speaker 3: that I was looking at. What is it Bloomsbury and
7:12
Speaker 3: Bloomsberry function GQ rulings publisher. I think they're still publisher.
7:16
Speaker 3: It's you get thirty five percent off the r RP
7:19
Speaker 3: of any of their books in print in one chair,
7:25
Speaker 3: which is you know, so you really think that shares
7:28
Speaker 3: like six point ten at the moment, So at the
7:30
Speaker 3: end of the day, if you don't have to buy
7:32
Speaker 3: very many hard back books to get the money off.
7:35
Speaker 3: And yes, by the way, it is the home of
7:36
Speaker 3: Harry Potter, very Potter.
7:39
Speaker 1: A lots of these things now and it used to
7:40
Speaker 1: be back in the older. Is that a lot of
7:43
Speaker 1: the discounts only came if you had an actual share
7:46
Speaker 1: typical Yeah, In fact, looking at the list, there are
7:48
Speaker 1: some that are still like that BT Group PLC discounts
7:51
Speaker 1: on a variety of products and services, but it's only
7:53
Speaker 1: avaiable to shareholders with this with a share certificate.
7:56
Speaker 2: But most of.
7:57
Speaker 1: Them now, if you get in touch with your platform,
8:00
Speaker 1: they're going to arrange for you to have proof of
8:02
Speaker 1: ownership so you can receive the perk.
8:04
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and I mean I think I think that's
8:07
Speaker 3: one reason why, and I mean the promised Actually, I
8:09
Speaker 3: was just looking at some research and this, and the
8:11
Speaker 3: one thing that I couldn't really find out was I
8:17
Speaker 3: don't think there's an easy way to measure whether perks
8:20
Speaker 3: have gone down in either popularity or the number companies
8:25
Speaker 3: offering them. There's certainly a sense that they have, and
8:28
Speaker 3: I think if that's the case, it is partly because
8:30
Speaker 3: we had this transition from paper shares to you know,
8:35
Speaker 3: kind of like once well through nominee accounts, so it
8:37
Speaker 3: became much much harder and for the same reason sort
8:40
Speaker 3: of like people going to agms, actually in voting probably
8:44
Speaker 3: went down somewhat as well, because suddenly there was this
8:47
Speaker 3: kind of middle person between you and your shares. Where
8:51
Speaker 3: I think things have changed now though, has been with
8:53
Speaker 3: technology it's like I mean, for example, I have an
8:56
Speaker 3: account with one of the big platforms, and it's very
8:58
Speaker 3: good at nagging me you in the e GM when
9:01
Speaker 3: it's coming up, and so you think the trans feril
9:04
Speaker 3: mechanism new for for perks, I think is much much easier. Also,
9:10
Speaker 3: I think to be feeling the BT boys, I think
9:11
Speaker 3: those authors do going. I don't think it's just the
9:14
Speaker 3: certificated people, because I think that would be extremely old fashioned.
9:18
Speaker 1: Well that says on the Hardbridge Landstone website, which is
9:21
Speaker 1: where I just checked.
9:23
Speaker 3: I'd be surprised if that isn't a we put it there.
9:27
Speaker 1: Okay, all right now the best, the best ones. I'm
9:30
Speaker 1: looking down the list right, and the best ones seemed
9:32
Speaker 1: to be all about things that the Brits really like.
9:34
Speaker 2: Booze and holidays.
9:35
Speaker 3: Your boos and holidays, Reny.
9:38
Speaker 1: Sure you get discounts on package holidays books with the
9:40
Speaker 1: company's subsidiary, which in travel.
9:42
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the funniest one. That's going to be one
9:45
Speaker 3: of the funniest. It's like NI shows like this engineering
9:50
Speaker 3: group and you can get a discout in a package.
9:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, Norwegian Cruise Line on board credit that maybe people
9:58
Speaker 1: aren't thinking about cruis right now, Mitchell and Butler's twenty
10:02
Speaker 1: percent of total bill.
10:04
Speaker 2: Gosh, yes, no it is. It's basically all about It's
10:06
Speaker 2: all about.
10:08
Speaker 1: Smiths in turn a shareholder indulgent cord giving food to
10:12
Speaker 1: percent of food to drink, ten percent discount in the hotels, Carnival.
10:16
Speaker 3: What do you get on Carnival? I think you get
10:18
Speaker 3: some one of your cruise sorts of things. Yeah.
10:20
Speaker 2: Interesting.
10:21
Speaker 1: You know I was looking this up, John, because I
10:22
Speaker 1: was wondering when this all started. When did this idea
10:25
Speaker 1: come that you should give people some sense of excitement
10:29
Speaker 1: and something extra from holding shares. And do you know
10:31
Speaker 1: when you think back about the first thing that one
10:34
Speaker 1: of the first things that retail investors really went for.
10:36
Speaker 1: I always think of Foreign colonial the investment trust, right,
10:41
Speaker 1: And they had this great system back in the eighteen
10:46
Speaker 1: seventies where when you bought a certificate because we're not
10:50
Speaker 1: reading when shares and certificates that you bought it a
10:53
Speaker 1: account and then redeemed it past. You'd buy one for
10:55
Speaker 1: eighty five p and then when redemption date came along,
10:58
Speaker 1: you get one hundred backs. It were more like a
10:59
Speaker 1: bond than a share. But nonetheless, they had this lottery component,
11:04
Speaker 1: so all the certificates would be out there, and then
11:06
Speaker 1: every year they would have a random draw of the
11:10
Speaker 1: certificates and if you won, you got your money early,
11:14
Speaker 1: so you've effectively made your capital gain ages before anybody else,
11:18
Speaker 1: and then you could reinvest.
11:20
Speaker 3: I like that as well, because it's a bit of
11:23
Speaker 3: elaborate financial engineering and throwing that lottery element, and people
11:27
Speaker 3: just will pay for the lottery.
11:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
11:31
Speaker 3: I don't actually understand why. I just put regulator reason,
11:35
Speaker 3: but I don't understand what companies should somehow figure it
11:39
Speaker 3: a way to make that gambling instinct. What can the
11:41
Speaker 3: cost of capital favor? Again? I feel, but not, I mean,
11:46
Speaker 3: it's it's it's very interesting. The other big one that
11:49
Speaker 3: I remember, there was legendaries that it was Eurotunnel. God, yes,
11:54
Speaker 3: when that first listed, I think if you were among
11:56
Speaker 3: the original shareholders, you basically got something like next to
12:01
Speaker 3: free travel on the euro on the Channel Tunnel, like
12:05
Speaker 3: for life. I think you did, and they did try.
12:07
Speaker 3: I think they tried to take it away, but it
12:09
Speaker 3: was legally challenged because obviously that went through a load
12:11
Speaker 3: of restructures and etcetera, et cetera. And I think the
12:15
Speaker 3: original shareolders still have that perk. I mean, I could
12:19
Speaker 3: be wrong, but I don't think. I think you had
12:22
Speaker 3: to be in the original batch.
12:24
Speaker 2: But anybody out.
12:25
Speaker 1: There who still has that, do write in and let
12:28
Speaker 1: us know. That will be fascinating. We'd also like to know,
12:30
Speaker 1: if you do have it, how often.
12:32
Speaker 3: You've used it. I remember working with some guys in
12:37
Speaker 3: the early two thousands who who had who had got it,
12:41
Speaker 3: and they were still using it, so it was it
12:44
Speaker 3: was sort of still legendary up until up until then
12:46
Speaker 3: at least.
12:56
Speaker 1: Oh we forgot to mention Melbury, we forgot to mention
12:59
Speaker 1: Margery exactly good. Yeah, Now you get a twenty percent discount.
13:02
Speaker 1: I think you have to have a certain number of
13:03
Speaker 1: shares for that. I don't think that comes easy, that one,
13:06
Speaker 1: because obviously the shares are quite high in absolute terms,
13:09
Speaker 1: well not that high, but here over a pound, and
13:11
Speaker 1: I think I can't remember how many you have to have,
13:13
Speaker 1: but slightly more than others.
13:14
Speaker 2: But then you get a twenty percent discount, which is
13:17
Speaker 2: surely worth.
13:18
Speaker 3: It if you any of your design the handbags.
13:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And you know I think that when I
13:23
Speaker 1: think about perks, I think to myself, it's not really
13:25
Speaker 1: about the money, right, It's about the sense that you're
13:27
Speaker 1: part of a group that it sort of leaves you
13:31
Speaker 1: to the company and it gives you a great degree
13:33
Speaker 1: of corporate loyalty. But then I remember that whenever anyone
13:36
Speaker 1: says it's not about the money, it's about the principle.
13:38
Speaker 2: It's always about the money.
13:40
Speaker 1: And I guess if I was a big buyer of
13:41
Speaker 1: Mulberry handbags and I was a shelter, it would definitely
13:43
Speaker 1: be about the money.
13:44
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, And the thing that's a good point because
13:46
Speaker 3: I was. I was certainly I was sort of like thinking, well,
13:49
Speaker 3: you know, especially you shouldn't late the text, do all
13:52
Speaker 3: wag the investment dog. But actually, if you can be
13:55
Speaker 3: bothered then and a lot of people can be bothered
13:57
Speaker 3: to other sort of you know, money saving expert type
14:00
Speaker 3: menu shy. So if you if you do go to
14:04
Speaker 3: a certain pub a lot and you can buy one
14:06
Speaker 3: share and get ten percent of all your bills, then
14:09
Speaker 3: I say, well, why wouldn't you do it? It's not
14:11
Speaker 3: as if you know you're going to recoup your initial
14:14
Speaker 3: investment very quickly.
14:15
Speaker 1: Well absolutely, I mean got a family wedding coming up
14:18
Speaker 1: at the end of this end of this year or
14:20
Speaker 1: over the summer hab some chapel down shares. I mean,
14:22
Speaker 1: it's very compelling and I'm a big approval of this, John.
14:25
Speaker 1: What would you buy? What would you buy for the perks?
14:28
Speaker 1: I mean for the perks, I think give me as
14:31
Speaker 1: a cruiser.
14:31
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say you want to know, we.
14:33
Speaker 3: Just cruise totally. The women in my family quite often
14:36
Speaker 3: shop next for stuff, So it's just you know, I
14:40
Speaker 3: think you get twenty five percent off once a year
14:43
Speaker 3: if you have enough shares. There links one hundred shares,
14:48
Speaker 3: and I mean, I know that's not terribly exciting, but
14:50
Speaker 3: the I think some of the smaller companies haven't looked
14:53
Speaker 3: into this properly. But some one of our correspondents on
14:57
Speaker 3: Twitter was mentioning a kind of a booze company on
15:01
Speaker 3: Aim that had entered at least I think it was
15:06
Speaker 3: perhaps maybe this was a one off thing, but basically
15:08
Speaker 3: got a bottle of twenty one year old whiskey as
15:10
Speaker 3: long as you bought shares at a certain time and
15:11
Speaker 3: had held them for this seven length of time and
15:14
Speaker 3: that sort of thing. I actually think, I think your
15:17
Speaker 3: point of ownership is actually really important on this, and
15:21
Speaker 3: it was something that I hadn't kind of considered. But
15:24
Speaker 3: can you imagine if everyone and an also enrollment pension
15:28
Speaker 3: who owned a foot say one hundred tracker, got a
15:31
Speaker 3: twenty five percent discount voucher from next every year as
15:35
Speaker 3: part of their pension statement. And because that's I mean,
15:39
Speaker 3: you know, I'm assuming that the majority of these would
15:42
Speaker 3: actually qualify for it. Now, whether you know, let's well, yeah,
15:45
Speaker 3: because of the perks may explode if that happened. But
15:49
Speaker 3: I think that's quite an interesting thing to think about
15:51
Speaker 3: because it goes back to this thing and getting people
15:53
Speaker 3: excited and interested in and understanding, because then you would know,
15:57
Speaker 3: you know, all right, I actually owned shares and I
16:00
Speaker 3: didn't know that my auto enrolled pension was actually end
16:03
Speaker 3: this or you know what the other footally one hundred
16:06
Speaker 3: companies that still offer perks.
16:08
Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot over the years about look
16:10
Speaker 1: through voting and how people should be able to use
16:12
Speaker 1: their votes even if their shares are held inside a
16:17
Speaker 1: track of fund or an active fund or whatever it is,
16:19
Speaker 1: that you should be able to still influence how your
16:21
Speaker 1: vote is used, and look through perks seemed like an
16:25
Speaker 1: excellent idea as well. Look through perks look through tea
16:27
Speaker 1: and biscuits, look through lunch.
16:31
Speaker 3: Maybe what we could do is we could say the
16:33
Speaker 3: companies all day, you will let you off with a
16:37
Speaker 3: lunch and not the tea and biscuits, but we'll let
16:39
Speaker 3: you offer the lunch as long as you offer an
16:41
Speaker 3: actual perk to shareholders that is on a look through basis,
16:45
Speaker 3: and then they have an incentive to avoid the kind
16:48
Speaker 3: of hassle at the AGM by making sure they offer
16:51
Speaker 3: the half decent perk.
16:52
Speaker 1: All right, I'm good with that, as long as anyone
16:55
Speaker 1: who goes to the AGM is guaranteed tail coffee, at
16:58
Speaker 1: least two biscuits and a branded pen. Yep.
17:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's okay. I think I think we can shake
17:03
Speaker 3: hands on that ideal.
17:04
Speaker 2: Okay, it's a deal. I will add one thing to that,
17:07
Speaker 2: is it.
17:07
Speaker 1: Back when I was writing that book share Power, I
17:10
Speaker 1: looked at an SEA report that came out that was
17:12
Speaker 1: looking at how people feel about investing ETCTERA, and one
17:15
Speaker 1: of the things that came up very clearly was that
17:18
Speaker 1: new investors really enjoyed the status of feeling that they
17:23
Speaker 1: were owners. Yeah, and if we can give everybody that
17:27
Speaker 1: feeling of status with a little look through perk, three
17:31
Speaker 1: pen and a biscuit. I think we will really be
17:34
Speaker 1: improving matters in the UK, or certainly improving matters around
17:37
Speaker 1: the stock market.
17:38
Speaker 3: The genuine I genuinely think that's a great idea, you know.
17:43
Speaker 3: I mean, if there's a company out there are the
17:44
Speaker 3: things actually, yeah, that is something that we could and
17:47
Speaker 3: should do, then maybe maybe it should. Maybe we can
17:50
Speaker 3: start at the end.
17:52
Speaker 1: Get in touch, let us know what perk you're prepared
17:55
Speaker 1: to offer, and John and I will let you know
17:57
Speaker 1: if we approve. Thanks John, Thanks Will, Thanks for listening
18:06
Speaker 1: to this week's Marin Drugs Your Money. If you like
18:08
Speaker 1: our show, rate review, and subscribe wherever you listen to
18:10
Speaker 1: podcasts also be showed. Follow me and John on ex
18:13
Speaker 1: or Twitter at marinas w and John Underscore Stepic. This
18:16
Speaker 1: episode was produced by Summersadi and Moses and I'm sound
18:19
Speaker 1: designed by.
18:19
Speaker 2: Blake Mabeleson Aaron Kasper.
18:21
Speaker 1: Questions and comments on this show and all our shows
18:23
Speaker 1: are always welcome. Our show email is Merror Money at
18:25
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot net.