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The Owner's Trap · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

0:00
Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
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I was so unhappy.
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I was like, and and business was good.
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It wasn't that business was bad.
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We had more business.
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I made more money than I ever made.
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Like I had all these things that I wanted to do,
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but I'm sitting there going, why am I here?
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Hi and welcome to this Spiro podcast,
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Managing your Real estate, photography and Videography Business.
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Spirit is a software platform designed to help you manage
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and actually scale your day to day real estate media business.
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I'm Craig Magrum and welcome to the podcast.
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We've got a great question and topic for you this week.
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We're going to tease that in just a second here, but let me first introduce
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our owner and founder and co-host of the Spiro podcast, Todd Kivimaki.
1:01
Welcome back Todd.
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Craig, it's great to be back.
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I missed you all last week.
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You guys had a fabulous session with Jess Paxson in our Director of ops.
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Wow. So thanks for covering for me.
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It's great to be back.
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Talk to all of you all.
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And, you know, my my daughter had surgery.
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Everything went well.
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So thank you all for the well-wishes and the prayers.
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And, it's we're just cooking.
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Cooking here in June.
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Yeah. No joke.
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It's it's gotten busy. It's gotten busy.
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All right, well, Todd, we have a few announcements before that.
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I want to kind of set the the episode up, and it's going to kind of pull
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from some past episodes, but I think really kind of distilled down
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to some really good actionable points in the topic
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this week is it's called the Owners Trap.
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It's it's the paradox of your business being successful,
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but also experiencing more frustration in the midst of that success.
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So we're going to dive into that a little bit.
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But first, a couple of announcements.
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Before we start the episode.
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Yeah, Craig, I'll be brief here.
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The first one is is let's plan ahead for what
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you're going to do to build into your education,
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to put back into yourself, to put back into your well-being.
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There are great conferences in our industry there.
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In November, out in Vegas, the REPP conference, that's Eli Jones and his team.
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It's a fabulous conference.
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It is coming up soon so you can get more information at
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repplaunch.com/repp2025.
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It's the second week in November.
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Don't take the dates for me.
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Just go to their website, look at it.
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But look at it today.
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There are 40% sold out in the first three weeks.
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All of their MVP, what they call
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that's their pre conference day.
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We're just if you're doing it, if you're doing more than 20K
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a month and business this is where we do a fabulous mastermind.
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Eli's team will be there.
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I will be there with my team from Wow.
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And we're going to look at how we really analyze your business,
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how you go from 20 to 50, 50 to 100, 100 to 300 K a month.
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So take a look at that.
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They sold out.
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They sold out almost instantly of these MVP's.
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Because it's it's it's a close group.
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It's not a huge group.
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And it's a lot of interaction.
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And so they sold out and they've had it so much requested
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that they're finding a little bit larger of a venue.
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So, they are almost done with that.
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So keep that in mind.
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Keep an eye out for those
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if you are interested in that MVP day, one extra day to the conference,
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email them and let them know so you can get put on a waitlist.
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So that is coming up again.
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That is repplaunch.com/repp2025
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repp has two p’s in it for repp launch.
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Awesome.
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So moving forward here Spiro updates.
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This will launch the second week in July.
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Not going to talk about today
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other than I leaked a video of a feature that's coming.
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This is one of our most requested features I posted in there.
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If you've seen it, you are like, oh yes, this is great.
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One of them said, hey, this is my biggest thing, so check it out.
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It's in there. I'll show you how it works. I'll show you what it is.
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So that is on the Spiro Super User Facebook group.
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That's a mouthful. Craig.
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How do we name that? Just a little bit.
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And then my last thing is autoHDR.
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So you all know we endorsed autoHDR a couple months ago.
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And we we did it by using it.
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We use it at our own company.
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So all of our photos many of you asked me is wow, we use it on everything.
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Yes we do. We use it on everything.
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There might be 2 or 3 VIPs that we don't, but we use it on everything.
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Literally.
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The 1400 jobs or 1500 jobs we're going to do this month.
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Almost all of them went through auto HDR like a 99.9.
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I'm saying they just launched a huge update.
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So if you've tried it before and you're like,
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try it again, take a look at it.
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Maybe you don't do it
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at this instant because you're busy, but put it in your brain of things to do.
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I will tell you guys that we switched up. Wow.
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I'll also tell you that our largest users in Spiro all switched as well.
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So the thing I want to point out, and that we're going to get to
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some of this today, is it's not perfect.
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I'll tell you what, I've worked with overseas editors for 20 years.
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We changed their photos every day to
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and there was some that they were good and there was some that they were bad.
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There were some days that were they were off autoHDR is never off
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autoHDR always is consistent with processing time.
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Google went down the other day.
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Y'all like Google? Like
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the cloud services.
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So that means you can't process things.
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They figured out a way.
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They put it on a local machines like 30 or 40 local machines, Matt said.
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And they processed.
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So anyways,
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we use it.
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Our largest Spiro users use it.
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That's because it unlocks some things for you guys.
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If you want to look at every pixel, don't use it.
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You're going to be very critical of any editor.
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But if you want to unlock growth and and check an easy button, give it a look.
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Again, they have a lot of great updates. So that's my piece.
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Again I'm you can go to autohdr.com/spiro I don't own autoHDR.
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I'm not affiliated any other way that our company uses it.
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And if you click my link I get a little bit of kickback from that.
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So again I've said it before,
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if you don't like me, don't use my link, just go to autoHDR and look at it.
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But if you go to autohdr.com/spiro, it helps me out a little bit.
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But by all means that is completely up to you.
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But I want to be transparent with what the relationship is and how we're using it.
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I think that's fair.
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That's. Yeah, it's I try to be Craig.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You know this autoHDR and the benefits it brings kind of ties
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a little bit into what we're going to be talking about today for sure.
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The whole idea of delegation.
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So anything else before I dive into it before I start I'm done.
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I went over time.
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I'm sorry.
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Oh, you don't have to apologize to me.
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I wasn't timing you.
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All right, well, like, like I kind of said at the beginning of the podcast,
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last couple of episodes, we've we've talked a little bit
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about mindset, and we've, we've kind of set down some things.
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Todd, you've you've shared some really good things about,
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you know, the gap in the game and I think we
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this is going to be a great episode to take a deeper dive
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and to really give you some answers and some, strategies
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to make the most out of
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what might have been started out as a really awesome, exciting adventure
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and starting your business to the point now where you're
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hitting goals, which is good, you're you're experiencing great growth.
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I had that in my business, but you're also hitting a point of,
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how do I want to put this, frustration
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levels that you had didn't have at the beginning of your business, right?
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Yeah.
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So we call it the owner's trap, right?
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It's a place a lot of entrepreneurs get in, and they get kind of stuck in that.
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I want to expound on that a little bit more, Todd.
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Yeah, I so I've been very fortunate at Wow that we've grown
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and all of the 22 years we have had great growth except one
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and I've told the story before.
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But the crazy thing is, I probably grew more in different ways
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in the one year that our revenue didn't grow than all the other years.
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So it's crazy how life does that to you, but I can remember throughout the year.
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So I had every year we went up.
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And every year we
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did new things and we grew and we had a great team.
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And I had a lot of support around me.
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And I would
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go to a gathering,
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you know, say I get off work and you all, I know how you work.
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We're working a lot like as the owner, we put this on ourselves
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like, hey, I have to do this. I have to put in the time.
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I want to be the first one there and the last one to leave.
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Like we tell ourselves these lies.
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And for me, I have some very vibrant memories
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of Friday or Saturday evenings where I'm off work
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and I'm sitting at friends houses, sitting out in their garage or their back patio.
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And these are these are close friends to me, like people
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that are close to me that like, I should be enjoying their time.
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And I remember sitting in the lawn chair,
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just so engaged with work,
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like I couldn't even like I was listening to the conversation
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which had nothing to do about work, had to do about our families, our lives.
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It had to do about fun memories from the past, reminiscing,
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and my brain could not process one thing
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to even contribute to the conversation.
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I was so unhappy.
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I was like, and and business was good.
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It wasn't that business was bad.
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We had more business.
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I made more money than I ever made.
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Like I had all these things that I wanted to do,
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but I'm sitting there going, why am I here?
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Like, well, why does this matter?
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Like almost like this drawer to check my phone
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or go back to open up the laptop or back to the office
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and it happened enough that I'm like, why?
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Why am I doing this?
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And then all the while
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I'm more edgy, I'm more agitated, I'm shorter with my responses.
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I might snap back not only employees, but
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my family, my kids.
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And I'm sitting there going, why did I dig myself into this hole
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and feeling a bit hopeless about being at the bottom of this
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hole, feeling sorry for myself?
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Quite honestly, Craig, to be transparent, I get it.
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I think a lot of owners get it.
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I'm going to go back prior to my time,
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working in real estate media, and it was when I worked in broadcast radio.
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I was general manager of a radio station, here in the Toledo area.
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And, I was putting in 70, 75 hours a week as GM of the station.
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And I remember telling people, and I've told people since
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even when I was not at work, I was at work exactly like what you just said.
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And when I was home, I wasn't home, I wasn't mentally there for my wife.
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I wasn't mentally there for my oldest son at the time.
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And I think most owners experience
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that somehow, you know, at some point in their career,
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it same thing.
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The radio station was actually doing.
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Well.
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We, we went through a format change where you're reaching new families.
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There was new life in the radio station.
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I mean, it was good, but I was
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I actually started seeing a counselor at that time
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because, as he put it, quote, Craig,
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you are fried crispy.
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You are fried crispy.
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So yeah, I think most people are going to understand that
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most people listening to this podcast are going to understand what you're
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talking about, Todd
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Yeah, yeah.
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I'll fast I'll rewind a little bit more.
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Excuse me to earlier days.
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So this was probably 3 or 4 probably 4 or 5 years in the business.
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I, we were growing exponentially at the time.
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And you always grow
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a larger percentage in your early days because it's easier to grow and
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we just had so much business.
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And I had a good luck at bringing on photographers and business
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part time photographers.
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I didn't really know what I was doing.
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You so not like I had it all figured out.
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So you're like, man, I'm bringing on my first photographer.
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Like I didn't really know what I was doing.
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I just, I just figured it out and I screwed a lot of it up.
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But that's besides the point.
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My point is, is that I had some other things that I was solely responsible for.
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Everything pointed back to Todd
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invoicing.
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This was before Spiro invoice Spiro.
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There was very little functionality in the software.
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The invoicing, phone calls.
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I remember I went on vacation one week and I gave the phone, my phone
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to someone that was helping me,
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and when I got back, she was like, I have no clue how you do this.
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Like your phone rings all the time.
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Like your phone rings all the time.
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Like, I know
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email.
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And I had a lot of these admin level duties that
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I was the only one that knew how to do it.
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I didn't have any processes written down.
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I didn't have any time to think
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that I could find somebody to help me with these.
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And I got to this, this low.
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And I remember talking to my wife about I was just so unhappy.
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And I was like, nobody can help me.
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Like, no one's going to know how to do it.
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There's no one that can help me with it.
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Like, and looking back at the time, like, it's pretty dumb.
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Like no one can put an invoice into QuickBooks.
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But I was telling myself these lies or these thought airs.
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Eli Jones has this term, this thought, and I love it.
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I had this thought or something that I was thinking incorrectly
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and my wife was, and she's very gentle with me.
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You know, our wives are significant. Others know as well.
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She's like, well, I think you should just find somebody.
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I'm like, no, there's no one out there that can do it.
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Like, I was something special.
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Like it was crazy.
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Like I thought I was doing this insurmountable task.
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Like, really?
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I thought I was going to get
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the Nobel Peace Prize and next year, like, it was so difficult to work.
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And my wife's, like very, very patient with me
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and just bought me enough
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and enough times that I began to open up
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with the idea of hiring someone like a key person I had.
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I had a part time admin.
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I did add that to the story, but I needed someone
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that I could depend on that could take these low level
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task away from me so I could focus on the bigger things
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and and my story the way it ended up.
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I was just so fortunate that God happened to bring someone into my life.
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It happened to be the admin that was working part time for me.
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She started talking to a guy.
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This guy was working insurance, and he'd come in on his lunch break
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and he and her would talk and I was in the office
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and just kind of casually through conversation, kind of connected, like
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we're like, hey, we have a lot of the same values, believe a lot of same things.
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And he was a go getter.
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He's like, hey, I kind of like what you're doing.
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And he's like, oh, by the way, I kind of hate this insurance thing too.
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And. And then he was with me for almost a decade
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and help me just took things off my plate and allowed me to focus on bigger things.
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So I didn't get caught in the minutia
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so that the
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idea of delegation huge in helping you get over this.
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Can I rewind just a little bit just before
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you discover the need for delegation and the mindset,
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that you might be stuck in as an owner?
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We talked we kind of touched on this in a past episode.
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Todd and the idea of the gap in the game.
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Yeah.
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Can you kind of set that up for us
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and then we can transition into then the idea of delegation and
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and letting go of things to, to be able to grow?
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Yeah, I'd love to.
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So we had Simon on about a month ago and he happened to give a book suggestion.
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It was a gap in the game, and I grabbed the book and I started reading
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it, and I and just the psychology of it,
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I love this, this approach to it.
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So there is where you're at today,
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okay.
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And there's where you want to go. Okay.
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So think that's above you.
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That's where you're trying to grow the space
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in between where you're at today to where you want to grow is the gap.
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It's a gap of what you have.
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You're not there yet.
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Okay.
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Typically or always, I would say
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you are going to be unhappy living in that gap, focusing on that gap.
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You all have done this.
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Think about any time you've reached a goal.
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You've now put a higher bar ahead of you.
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There's always a gap ahead of you
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no matter how you are, how big you are, how much you are,
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there's always going to be a gap.
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I believe it was there was an actor.
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I heard this quote, I forget where I heard it from Adam.
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I screwed up a bit, but the actor said a very famous actor said,
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I think everybody should have basically loads
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of fame, have a limitless amount of money, be able to get everything they want
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and then realize that it doesn't make them happy.
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They realize that they're they were better off almost before
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that, still living in the gap.
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So you think if somebody
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at the pinnacle of their career like this was a super famous
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actor, had everything they wanted, and there was always
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this gap ahead of them, there's always going to be a gap.
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You all.
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Now there is a different side of this, this equation that is the gain.
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So where you're at today below that is where you were, where you started.
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So I think going down that is what you have gained.
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That is what we should be happy about.
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If we live in the gain, we're always going to have gracious hearts.
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We're always going to be positive potentially,
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and we're always going to be thankful for what we have gained.
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So I love how the author approaches
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this, and I'm using this terminology at home with even my kids.
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I'm like, hey, you're living in the gap too much.
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Hey, I want this new thing.
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Hey, my friends have this. Hey, can we do this?
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Hey, can I watch a little more TV?
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Like, no, you already watch too much of it.
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Okay. Like, can we be appreciative that.
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Remember, you asked for it? You got 30 minutes of TV.
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Can you just be appreciative that you got your time?
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Block up TV?
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Not that you want more.
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We're always going to want more. As humans. Yeah,
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I think it's
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the idea of being content in every situation.
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You know, you get stuck in that, in that gap section where it's never enough.
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But if so, here's an actionable item.
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You know, if you find yourself in that spot where you're
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just kind of stuck in that that more negative mindset, hit the pause button
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and think about three gains that you've had in the past year,
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and it's shifting your mindset from it's never enough to thankfulness
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and being content in, in in that moment.
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Right?
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Craig I love that idea.
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I would almost even so what you just suggested
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feels very weird to me, especially in the past.
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Like, let me stop and reflect.
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I'm not good at that.
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I just every time is like, hey, let's have a moment to reflect.
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It's like, wow, this is uncomfortable.
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Like I need something to fill this time, but I will tell you that
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as I continue down this journey in life,
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I understand how important that is to really reflect and think about that.
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So you all are probably driving right now or maybe you're running or I don't know,
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hopefully you're not working out because we're not very motivational.
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Like it's not like we're like, you know, Rocky Balboa
19:50
getting you to run up the stairs, but whatever you're doing right now,
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you probably have the ability to stop and think.
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And I'm going to give you some awkward pauses right now.
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Like, what are we thankful for?
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Like, there's things your photographer might have screwed something up.
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You might have an unhappy client, or maybe your editor
20:07
there was a problem or somebody set the wrong expectations.
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All those things are in the gap.
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You'll get to them.
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There always be things in the gap, but what about the gain?
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Think back
20:20
30 days ago.
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What were you working on
20:25
that now you have accomplished?
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You probably got a new client.
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You probably talked to a new client.
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You might have accomplished something personally.
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Go back six months ago.
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Go back a year ago.
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Go back to when you were working your job.
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You were working for someone and you thought, hey,
20:46
this might be cool if I could do my own thing.
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You never imagined you'd be at where you are at today.
20:54
I never imagined
20:56
when I was 19 years old that I was going to have
20:59
what I have today and be so fortunate to touch so many people
21:02
and be able to influence people and have them influence me.
21:08
So really spend some time to think about what you've gained
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and when you live in that sector, the gain portion
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life just feels better.
21:21
Yeah, it's a mindset thing. You
21:25
you know, in the past we talked about time tracking and, you know, things
21:29
that you can do to really manage and start to delegate. And,
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there's all those strategies.
21:36
But really it boils down to rather than tasks,
21:40
it boils down to people.
21:44
I don't know if that makes sense.
21:46
Craig, you're completely correct
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because you can only do so much.
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You got your business off the ground.
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And yes, I know you all can do a lot.
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I talk to you.
22:00
It's amazing what you all are doing out there and how much you can shoulder.
22:05
But if you want to grow a business,
22:08
you have to depend on others.
22:12
Don't be me.
22:13
18 years ago, thinking that I was
22:16
the only one that could create an invoice,
22:20
I was the only one that could schedule something.
22:23
I was the only one that could send an email.
22:25
No, you have to depend on others to grow your business,
22:30
and it can be a scary thing and you're going to screw some of it up.
22:36
That's how you learn.
22:38
We can help you along the way.
22:40
We've got some tips for delegating we're going to talk about,
22:42
but I just want you to know that you're going to screw some of it up.
22:45
The thing that I warn the most on here is, please don't come in
22:48
here and be like, Todd, how do you do 300K?
22:50
Last month?
22:53
Don't like I've done it 22 years.
22:55
Like I should probably be doing 600K, but I'm not living there.
22:59
That's the gap.
23:00
I am thankful that we're doing this,
23:04
so please don't compare yourself to me.
23:06
Don't compare yourself to social media.
23:08
That is the gap.
23:10
Please do not do that. You will be unhappy.
23:13
Be happy in the gain with what you've grown to.
23:17
Now we're going to give you some ideas of how you can cross off
23:20
some of those things in the gap so that you move where you're at higher.
23:24
All right.
23:25
And we feel as though delegation is key and you growing your business,
23:30
I can never do everything that I do and that we do without the team.
23:35
And then if you want ultimate freedom
23:38
and you want to begin to step away from your business,
23:41
you really have to learn to grow and manage up your team.
23:45
Okay, Todd.
23:46
So in the process of starting to delegate
23:51
the first step to really get that set up, we've talked about this in past
23:55
episodes is time tracking, knowing where you're spending your time right.
23:59
Yeah.
23:59
So how does that set up then to move into starting to delegate
24:04
so that you're not experiencing that frustration you're stuck in right now?
24:08
Yes. Craig.
24:09
So time tracking I'm a huge believer in it.
24:12
If you haven't listened to that episode, if you haven't done it,
24:15
please go back and do that.
24:16
What that does is it unlocks you making metric based decisions.
24:22
Okay.
24:22
So it's an activity where you're actually seeing where
24:25
your time goes, not emotional decisions.
24:28
Emotional decisions are not good, okay.
24:32
Emotions are great responders, terrible leaders tell my kids that all the time.
24:36
You don't want to lead with emotion.
24:38
You don't want to make decisions with emotion.
24:40
So understand where your time goes.
24:43
At the end of that activity, you're going to have three columns of activities.
24:48
You're going to have an admin nurse and a doctor as a list
24:51
explained to me by one of my coaches, you, if you want to move your business
24:55
along the furthest, you need to spend time in the doctor column, okay?
25:00
When you go to the doctor's office, does the doctor check you in?
25:04
No. That's ridiculous.
25:05
If your doctor was sitting there and crossed your name or asked you
25:09
for your name and checked you in, you would be like, why is he up here?
25:12
Okay, you need to spend time in the doctor column,
25:15
the other columns you need to delegate.
25:18
Okay?
25:18
Now, if it is just you, you have no one to delegate them to.
25:23
All right.
25:23
So this is maybe a point that you look to hire a VA, an admin,
25:28
a photographer, but one thing that I want you to be careful about is
25:34
don't get caught in the trap of thinking
25:36
you always have to hire someone
25:39
to delegate these task
25:43
I had people at Wow more than
25:46
I even ever believe that were ready and willing to help me.
25:52
and they actually felt like they were growing in the company.
25:57
When I finally got over and outside of my own brain
26:00
and I was vulnerable with what I needed.
26:05
So remember y'all, you are the leader of your company.
26:09
You. I had misconceptions in my head of the way
26:14
that employees would interact with me because I'm not intimidated by myself.
26:20
I think I'm pretty fun.
26:22
But your employees don't.
26:25
Your employees might think you're fun.
26:26
They might not be intimidated.
26:28
But there's always that fine line between employees and owner.
26:32
Okay, a coach said to me one time, If the Lions out to play,
26:38
the lion can always bite your head off.
26:43
When he said I was like, oh, okay, I get it now, I get it now.
26:46
So there's always that reserve.
26:48
So with me feeling like
26:51
I was proud and doing all of these tasks, I was actually dropping the ball
26:55
on many of them.
26:57
Your employees won't call you out on it,
26:59
they'll just try to fix it or they'll pivot around it.
27:04
Until I finally realize that
27:05
I was vulnerable and I asked for help.
27:09
That's when everything started to open up.
27:12
Yeah, you'll you'll find that people within your organization,
27:17
they might actually like doing the things that you need to get off your plate.
27:21
Right. So.
27:22
Oh my.
27:23
Yes, I like I can't imagine enjoying doing the invoicing and the accounting,
27:29
but there's people actually weird people like actually wired to do that.
27:34
Great.
27:36
Yeah.
27:36
Craig. This person did.
27:38
Yeah. It was like, oh man, I can clean all this up.
27:40
And he had 14 good ideas I never thought about because I was just
27:44
drowning in my sorrows of having to create 100 invoices.
27:48
And he's like, this is great.
27:49
And I'm like, what are you talking about?
27:51
Like, do we need a drug test here? Oh.
27:57
But honestly, it is.
27:59
It wasn't until like, that is one way that you are truly going
28:03
to unlock your company to grow is that you say, hey, I've got a question.
28:08
I need some help.
28:10
Because for a lot of years, Todd
28:13
was the person people went to for answers.
28:17
So everybody had to go
28:19
through Todd's brain for answers.
28:22
Everybody had to go through Todd's phone,
28:25
Todd's inbox, and I just couldn't keep up.
28:29
I was dropping the ball, and my employees weren't telling me
28:34
when I
28:34
had a coach finally tell me, like, hey, dummy, like,
28:38
you should probably ask more questions than give answers.
28:42
It wasn't until then
28:44
that when you ask a question to an employee,
28:47
as when they begin to feel ownership, you know what they say.
28:50
They go, oh, this is Todd wants my opinion, Todd wants my help.
28:57
And they go, I'd love to help with this.
29:01
And then you know what?
29:01
They they go home, sorry, Craig.
29:03
And then they go home and they tell their wife, hey, you know what?
29:06
You know what I get to do?
29:09
And all the while, they're helping you.
29:13
Just just touched
29:14
on this last week on last week's episode about,
29:18
about a staff member or an employee or even a contractor
29:21
feeling empowerment and ownership that that word feeling ownership.
29:26
So if you had to boil it down to like, say, three points of the positive,
29:30
you know, ripple approach to the approach to this,
29:33
what what would that be if we can kind of distill it down.
29:36
Yes. Craig.
29:37
So the three things first is empowerment.
29:40
So this is you empowering
29:43
or taking power that you have and putting it in someone in your team
29:48
that is going to
29:49
make them feel good and feel like they have that ownership.
29:52
Like Craig mentioned, next is the relief you are going to get relief from that
29:57
because you don't have to do that thing anymore.
30:02
And then finally is focus because you have the relief.
30:06
You've cleared up some margin.
30:10
You can now focus on the doctor column
30:13
so that you can actually take the business along further,
30:17
because you're not so overloaded with those tasks that you don't like to do
30:22
that don't energize you, and you have held on to a task
30:25
that an employee would love to help you with.
30:28
Okay, Todd.
30:29
So let's tie all of this together.
30:32
So in the first part of this episode, we talked about,
30:35
you know, the internal mindset, shifting from the gap to the game.
30:39
Right.
30:40
We covered that part two.
30:42
Then we've got,
30:44
external actions that we can take.
30:47
The main thing being vulnerable with your team, asking the team for help.
30:51
So how are those?
30:53
Let's kind of get this all tied together.
30:55
How are those two things then? Linked.
30:58
Directly linked.
30:59
Yeah.
30:59
I mean, so the mindset and the and the action. Yeah.
31:02
So sometimes you just have to get out of your own way.
31:05
Remember my story I'm sitting in my buddy's garage.
31:07
These are people that I've had a ton of just great times with in my life.
31:10
And I can't even contribute because I'm in such a home.
31:13
My mind, you got to find a way to pull yourself out.
31:16
Okay.
31:17
Talked to Craig, said he talked someone, a counselor.
31:19
I have I've had coaches that have been counselors.
31:22
My wife.
31:23
Sometimes it just needs some talking to someone
31:25
and someone go, oh, yeah, that's, you know,
31:26
they give you some perspective on it.
31:28
So once you get out of that mindset, okay,
31:31
you now have opened up the idea that being vulnerable is okay.
31:36
You know, when you're in that hole, the idea of being vulnerable
31:41
is seems catastrophic, terrifying.
31:45
Yes. It's like you are already terrified and unhappy
31:50
in your business and then you're going to go ask someone for help.
31:53
Hey, you.
31:55
It just doesn't connect.
31:56
Once you get out of that gap and you get into the game
32:00
and you realize that being vulnerable is positive from there,
32:04
then you empower a team member to help you grow the company.
32:07
They take bigger task.
32:09
You get to focus on what's important live in the doctor category,
32:13
because that's where you're going to grow your business,
32:15
and that's where you're going to see the most success.
32:18
And one more point that I want to make, Craig, is
32:22
this is no different
32:24
than what your employees go through at your organization.
32:28
Yeah, they might be doing their all in columns as well.
32:34
And when you relinquish control
32:38
of a task that you're doing and put it
32:41
and give it to them, they move up a column
32:45
that is growth for them.
32:47
Two I have I, I've been fortunate enough
32:51
to see a lot of people Wow and Spiro grow.
32:55
There's been a lot of people that started at one position, moved
32:57
to another, moved to another, and now two of them started
33:02
an entry level positions and they're running the entire company.
33:06
It is incredible to see how people can grow.
33:10
It will be the same effect that you have that your employees
33:13
have as they grow up into your company, into the next column.
33:19
That's what
33:19
leadership is all about, really, is seeing the potential and others
33:23
and helping them get to that potential and finding finding joy in that success.
33:29
And and you might I'm going to add something here, Todd, if that's okay.
33:34
Yeah.
33:36
You might have discovered
33:39
in your journey of starting in business
33:41
that you've gotten to this point of great success,
33:44
but ultimate frustration.
33:47
I think the other thing that you need to do, and this is what I had to do,
33:50
and this can be, can be a humbling thing, because I got to the point
33:53
where I realized I would rather do the hands on work,
33:57
the and for me, it was the creative aspect,
34:00
taking the photos and building the business relationships.
34:03
So, you know, the business development.
34:08
And be okay with.
34:09
That's what I really enjoy doing.
34:12
And the ownership aspect of it wasn't necessarily what I had to have.
34:17
And that's part of why I made the this, the change that I did
34:21
is I, I ultimately passed my business on to
34:25
Wow video tours, and for a time I went and worked at my church
34:29
and came back in.
34:31
I've told Todd this, I've told our other leadership this.
34:34
I love doing what I do now.
34:36
I don't own my this business anymore. Right?
34:39
I'm part of now.
34:40
This team where I still get to do the things that I enjoy doing.
34:44
And that's the creative and the the relationship building
34:47
and everything else involved in ownership,
34:50
which is a leadership position, really helping grow people.
34:54
That's a different skill set.
34:56
And I came to the point where I had to realize that's not my personal call.
35:02
And gift set.
35:05
And I've
35:06
I've had to get to the point where I'm okay with that.
35:09
And there might be a person or two out there listening
35:13
that is in that similar situation.
35:17
And I just want to say to you as a non owner, because I'm not an owner,
35:21
I'm just I'm on this podcast because I've experienced ownership.
35:24
Right?
35:25
I've learned a lot from Todd and I.
35:27
I'm enjoying teaching what I've learned along with Todd too.
35:30
You it's okay if you get to that point where you realize
35:35
I don't necessarily want to lead people, but I enjoyed this work.
35:39
There are other ways to do that work and not necessarily be in the leader position.
35:44
Todd now you have two different goals
35:46
in two different callings and gift sets, and it's okay.
35:49
So I want to talk to that one
35:51
or 1 or 2 people that might be listening going, yeah, but I don't I don't
35:55
necessarily enjoy developing people and looking for those things in people.
35:59
I just like the photography work or the video work and that's cool.
36:04
That's awesome that there's nothing wrong with that.
36:08
So there's that.
36:09
There's that third kind of aspect to this, of maybe owning it isn't the thing.
36:14
And there can be another really fulfilling,
36:18
business arrangement for you, for you to stay in this business,
36:22
but ultimately be fulfilled in not being the owner.
36:25
Is is that okay to say, oh, for sure, Craig.
36:29
And I think one thing that you just have done incredibly in your journey,
36:34
I remember the first conversation you have with me
36:36
about thinking about real estate media was at my house.
36:39
We were still working out in the office, in the house.
36:41
You came and we talked.
36:44
But you've always been honest and you've always been vulnerable.
36:47
We've had some vulnerable conversations in both ways,
36:49
where I've shared things with you, you share things with me,
36:51
and we got it all out there and we said, where is there a win win?
36:55
Right. Well, you'll be happy.
36:56
Will I be happy?
36:58
And I and and I've learned a lot from you and that, Craig,
37:01
that you're very true to yourself.
37:03
And I so appreciate that about you because I think
37:06
as I look back over the times, I might have lied to myself throughout the years
37:10
and, and I might have forced
37:11
a few things and, and you just have to find that happy line,
37:15
because sometimes you just need to push a little bit harder to break through.
37:19
And then other times pushing is just going to break
37:23
and you need to say, hey, wait a minute, this is not form.
37:27
I need to pivot and I'm going to find a win win somewhere.
37:31
My gift set is different.
37:33
I and I think part of it, Todd, is I was in the church world,
37:37
nonprofit ministry, church, you know, Christianity World for a long time.
37:41
And there was a huge, huge culture of leadership
37:45
and how critical leadership is, which is true, but not everybody is
37:49
called to be an out front, charismatic type of leader, personality.
37:54
Some of us are gifted to be behind the scenes and to lift
37:57
the arms of the leader up, and I find my fulfillment in that.
38:01
I don't need to be the one out front with the big vision.
38:04
But I shared love helping somebody achieve their vision.
38:07
And so if that's you did, there's no shame in that.
38:11
Even though the leadership culture
38:13
and all the seminars and, you know, the the conferences are all pushing that
38:17
and you might feel that pressure don't just I yeah just don't.
38:22
Yeah.
38:23
So yeah.
38:24
Well said Craig, but to the 99% of people that maybe are owners and leaders,
38:30
this is great advice and and learning how to delegate and getting the mindset
38:34
right to be able to shift into that delegation
38:37
where you do empower people on your team and and just have that joy
38:41
of watching them really grow and blossom into the roles
38:44
and the things that they enjoy doing and are gifted to do.
38:46
So great, great insight, Todd.
38:49
Yeah, well, thanks for sharing, Craig.
38:50
And as you can be vulnerable with these things,
38:54
let us know a time that you felt vulnerable, you know, and now
38:58
I'm asking you to share your vulnerability on on social media or just email me.
39:02
You know, me and Craig.
39:03
Yeah. hello@spiro.media We'd love that.
39:06
We're in this with you.
39:07
For those of you that have email me, I could get a response.
39:10
It might be a little bit delay,
39:11
but email us like we want to hear what we care about you.
39:14
It's just not. It's not.
39:16
Talk on a podcast is not face value.
39:18
We're real guys in the middle of cornfields and we care about you.
39:22
So hello@spiro.media leave us a comment below.
39:25
You would be surprised how much your comment might help another,
39:28
so be generous with your comments and your information
39:32
and how your comment might even help us.
39:35
There's there's a couple of you that have encouraged us
39:37
and, I mean, we go we go through the same stresses, right?
39:41
So just to hear, you know, you know, it's just encouragement.
39:45
It's so, so appreciated.
39:47
So yeah. Awesome.
39:50
Well there's there it is.
39:52
The owners trap ways to get out of it, strategies to get out of that and to move
39:56
and to grow and to really enjoy what you do again,
40:00
if you've found yourself in that spot of frustration
40:03
and losing the joy of of the work that you do,
40:06
so awesome, Todd thank you.
40:10
Great episode here with you.
40:12
And, you know, as we we always close things
40:14
down by just reminding you, be thankful for the blessings in your life.
40:18
Your business is a blessing.
40:20
You've got a resource in your in your business
40:23
to allow others to take care of their families.
40:27
Whether it's your clients, your realtors, or people on your staff
40:30
contractors that you've hired, you've been given a blessing in the
40:34
in the ownership of your business.
40:35
So just take some time to reflect on that.
40:38
Make sure you take some time to breathe as well.
40:40
You guys have a great week. Thanks for watching and listening.