Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / Mastering Your Mindset: Laura Thweatt On Transitioning From Competitor to Coach & Being Your Own Biggest Hype Human (Hellen Obiri's, Too)

Transcript

Mastering Your Mindset: Laura Thweatt On Transitioning From Competitor to Coach & Being Your Own Biggest Hype Human (Hellen Obiri's, Too) · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: So many of my hardships in my running in life
0:04
Speaker 1: have always taught me that in the moment, it's so
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Speaker 1: hard to see, but it's what sets you up for
0:13
Speaker 1: the things that come later. That was just part of
0:15
Speaker 1: my journey and I'm so grateful for it.
0:31
Speaker 2: Hello there, Emily.
0:33
Speaker 3: Here, you are listening to another episode of Hurdle, a
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Speaker 3: podcast for you during the mindset secrets and true stories of
0:39
Speaker 3: the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, empowering you
0:43
Speaker 3: to live a healthier, happier, more motivated life and of course,
0:46
Speaker 3: conquer your own hurdles. As a reminder, season twenty one,
0:52
Speaker 3: we're all in on Run and I am continuing this
0:56
Speaker 3: streak by sitting down this week with the ever lovely
1:01
Speaker 3: Laura Sweet. She's currently crushing her role as the Assistant
1:06
Speaker 3: Rhodes team coach for the On Athletic Club, often referred
1:10
Speaker 3: to ASAC.
1:12
Speaker 2: And she joins me on the show fresh off.
1:15
Speaker 3: Of a stellar thirteen year professional running career herself. Laura's
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Speaker 3: a three time US cross country national champion, a top
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Speaker 3: ten finisher at major marathons like New York and Chicago,
1:27
Speaker 3: and also a top American finisher at the London Marathon.
1:32
Speaker 3: Where she ran her blazing two twenty five thirty eight
1:35
Speaker 3: personal best time. In this episode, Laura takes us through
1:39
Speaker 3: her transition from the pro starting line to the coaching staff,
1:43
Speaker 3: sharing exactly what it's been like to reframe her identity
1:46
Speaker 3: after retiring from a leak competition. We dive deep into
1:50
Speaker 3: how she navigates the immense pressure of coaching some of
1:52
Speaker 3: the best athletes in the world, including world champion Helen o'biery,
1:56
Speaker 3: and how her own experiences with chronic injury cycles completely
2:00
Speaker 3: changed how she listens to her body. Plus, Laura opens
2:04
Speaker 3: up about why she picked up journaling as a tool
2:07
Speaker 3: to celebrate small wins and why it's so critical for
2:09
Speaker 3: female athletes to understand their own physiology to maximize their
2:13
Speaker 3: performance potential. Whether you're trying to navigate your own major
2:17
Speaker 3: life transition or looking to build a resilient mindset, this
2:20
Speaker 3: conversation has something for everyone. I also have to tell
2:24
Speaker 3: you that this was, as we say in today's episode,
2:26
Speaker 3: Laura's first trip to Paris where we recorded this chat,
2:31
Speaker 3: and I had the distinct privilege of showing her around
2:36
Speaker 3: as a city that I love very dearly. It was
2:39
Speaker 3: so exciting to see it through her eyes again for
2:41
Speaker 3: the first time. We were leaving dinner one night at
2:45
Speaker 3: one of my favorites. It's this restaurant called Malroe. The
2:48
Speaker 3: intent was to take her to a Speak Easy but
2:51
Speaker 3: as we're walking down the street, there's this massive uproar
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Speaker 3: and applause and we quickly realized that France is playing
2:58
Speaker 3: in the World Cup at that very moment, and we're
3:01
Speaker 3: in Paris again. So we literally make a sharp right
3:05
Speaker 3: hand turn and watch the France game in France and ten.
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Speaker 2: Out of ten experience.
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Speaker 3: That's just a story I need to share with you.
3:14
Speaker 3: Make sure you are following along with Hurdle over on
3:17
Speaker 3: social It's over at Hurdle podcast. You can also check
3:20
Speaker 3: out Iheartwoman's Sports. Over at Iheartwoman's Sports and me over
3:23
Speaker 3: at Emily A Badi. Listen a hurdle with Emily Abody
3:26
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get
3:30
Speaker 3: your podcasts. And with that, let's get to it. Let's
3:33
Speaker 3: get to hurdling.
3:43
Speaker 2: Today.
3:44
Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Laura Sweet. She is the
3:47
Speaker 3: assistant Rhodes team coach for AC Laura, how are we doing?
3:51
Speaker 2: Welcome to Hurdle.
3:52
Speaker 1: We are doing great. I'm in Paris. I can't complain,
3:55
Speaker 1: so we're thrivy.
3:57
Speaker 3: I just found out that this is Laura's first time
3:59
Speaker 3: in Paris, and I have like magical butterflies for you.
4:02
Speaker 3: I am so excited to give you all of the res,
4:05
Speaker 3: all the tips, yep, and we're here to have some
4:07
Speaker 3: We're here to have some fun.
4:09
Speaker 4: Yes we are.
4:09
Speaker 3: You are very well familiar with Helen o'bieri. I am not,
4:15
Speaker 3: which we will talk about today, but for me tomorrow
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Speaker 3: in Paris in real time as we record this, I'm
4:21
Speaker 3: going to have the opportunity to sit down with both
4:22
Speaker 3: of you, and I am so excited.
4:26
Speaker 1: Yes, we are excited. Helen has quickly become one of
4:30
Speaker 1: my favorites. The relationships she and I have been able
4:33
Speaker 1: to build over this last year has been has been
4:36
Speaker 1: pretty incredible and definitely one of the highlights of my
4:39
Speaker 1: job with OEC so far.
4:40
Speaker 3: So let's start off talking a little bit about exactly
4:45
Speaker 3: what your job is for OAC and then we'll dial
4:48
Speaker 3: it back.
4:49
Speaker 4: So Moore, yeah, good, Yeah.
4:50
Speaker 1: So my job, as you said, I am the assistant
4:53
Speaker 1: Roads Team Coach for OEC Global based out of Boulder, Colorado.
4:57
Speaker 1: Dathan essentially brought me on a little over a year
5:00
Speaker 1: ago to help kind of start building out a marathon
5:04
Speaker 1: team to accompany the track side that they have going.
5:07
Speaker 1: So when I started, the primary athletes were really just Helen.
5:11
Speaker 4: She was the only marathon er at the time.
5:13
Speaker 1: Joe was making his transition over to the roads and
5:16
Speaker 1: then going to step to the marathon, and then my
5:19
Speaker 1: job was to not only foster relationships and start working
5:22
Speaker 1: with both of them, but to also build a team
5:25
Speaker 1: around them that would be more marathon specific and more
5:28
Speaker 1: marathon focused.
5:29
Speaker 4: So that's what I'm trying to do.
5:32
Speaker 3: One day at a time, I'd say, you're doing pretty
5:35
Speaker 3: well so far. Did you ever think that you would
5:39
Speaker 3: segue into the coaching side of things once you yourself
5:42
Speaker 3: put your professional sneakers to the side.
5:46
Speaker 1: I did because I spent thirteen years, so pretty much
5:50
Speaker 1: my whole professional career, I was coaching at Monarch High
5:53
Speaker 1: School out in Lewisville, Colorado, where I lived just outside
5:56
Speaker 1: of Boulder, and I absolutely loved it. I took that
5:59
Speaker 1: was one of my first jobs right out of college.
6:01
Speaker 1: I took an assistant cross country coaching position at Monarch
6:05
Speaker 1: and really just fell in love with the sport.
6:07
Speaker 4: Again.
6:07
Speaker 1: I definitely came out of college frustrated, a little burned
6:11
Speaker 1: out with how my career had gone, and I was
6:13
Speaker 1: kind of thinking I was done, and then I took
6:15
Speaker 1: this coaching job with Monarch, and I just kind of
6:18
Speaker 1: fell in love with it again just being around younger
6:21
Speaker 1: kids and just like, you know, watching them slowly fall
6:24
Speaker 1: in love with the sport and build their own relationship.
6:26
Speaker 1: And cross country always like has had a special place
6:29
Speaker 1: in my heart. So all of that to say, I
6:31
Speaker 1: spent thirteen years working at the high school level and
6:35
Speaker 1: absolutely loved it. So when I was approaching my own
6:39
Speaker 1: transition with my running career, I definitely was thinking about
6:42
Speaker 1: how can I continue coaching, whether it's at the high
6:45
Speaker 1: school level. I was thinking the NC DOUBLEA was kind
6:48
Speaker 1: of like that next logical step, and I really, you know,
6:51
Speaker 1: felt like we need more women on that side of things.
6:55
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of things in the NC DOUBLEA
6:57
Speaker 1: that you know, I really thought could start to shift
7:01
Speaker 1: and change in some of the narratives and.
7:04
Speaker 4: Just things within that area.
7:06
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was definitely thinking coaching to some capacity,
7:09
Speaker 1: But you know, I obviously initially did not have my
7:12
Speaker 1: site set on working with athletes like Helen Obier.
7:15
Speaker 2: So you got a dream big, you gotta dream big.
7:19
Speaker 3: Whatever you think, what do you think it is about
7:21
Speaker 3: coaching that really draws you in. I mean, obviously you
7:24
Speaker 3: see yourselves in some of the athletes that you were
7:27
Speaker 3: working with at that first gig, but beyond that, what
7:30
Speaker 3: is it about the opportunity to help guide these young
7:33
Speaker 3: athletes that really resonates with you.
7:35
Speaker 4: I think it's really.
7:38
Speaker 1: Fulfilling and empowering for me to take my own experiences
7:42
Speaker 1: in the sport, starting at the high school level, like
7:44
Speaker 1: when I first got into it, and then you know,
7:47
Speaker 1: everything that I learned and how I grew at the
7:49
Speaker 1: collegiate level, and then taking that into the professional level.
7:52
Speaker 1: I think it's really fun to be able to share
7:54
Speaker 1: your experiences in the sport and create that environment for
7:58
Speaker 1: the athletes that you're working with. And then when I
8:00
Speaker 1: think about all the coaches I had, I had some
8:02
Speaker 1: pretty incredible coaches over the course of my career, but
8:05
Speaker 1: there were also holes throughout some of that journey for me,
8:10
Speaker 1: And so I think about, you know, what type of
8:12
Speaker 1: coach I needed at different levels of my career that
8:15
Speaker 1: I had, but also at times kind of felt like
8:18
Speaker 1: I didn't fully had and like wish I had. So again,
8:21
Speaker 1: just taking your own experience and kind of putting it
8:24
Speaker 1: now onto this side of the sport is definitely like
8:28
Speaker 1: it's it's really cool to be able to share that.
8:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
8:32
Speaker 3: And I know this is something that you and I've
8:33
Speaker 3: spoken about before because I chatted with you for an
8:36
Speaker 3: article that I wrote last year for Runner when we
8:38
Speaker 3: were talking about the rise in women coaches and for you,
8:44
Speaker 3: you say that there were some things that you wish
8:46
Speaker 3: that you had.
8:47
Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about what those things were.
8:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I think the biggest thing is and it's
8:55
Speaker 1: so hard because I feel like to some degree I
8:58
Speaker 1: had this with the coaches that I worked with throughout
9:00
Speaker 1: my career, but other times I didn't always feel like
9:04
Speaker 1: I had kind of that safe space for more of
9:06
Speaker 1: that like empathetic kind of approach. And then again just
9:10
Speaker 1: being a female athlete, you know, our physiology is very different,
9:14
Speaker 1: and so especially when I was a younger female athlete,
9:17
Speaker 1: I think I really craved having a space where I
9:20
Speaker 1: felt comfortable having some of those conversations just about like
9:24
Speaker 1: your body and like you know, the different phases of
9:27
Speaker 1: the menstrual cycle and how that can actually really be
9:29
Speaker 1: a superpower if you understand that and you have people
9:32
Speaker 1: in your corner helping you navigate that and understanding that.
9:35
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I was almost in my thirties,
9:38
Speaker 1: uh before I had a coach step in and really
9:40
Speaker 1: kind of explain how my own physiology can be that
9:43
Speaker 1: and how I can really kind of dictate and adjust
9:47
Speaker 1: and tweak training based around all of that to really
9:50
Speaker 1: keep myself healthy and to maximize my potential.
9:53
Speaker 4: But that came very late in my career, and.
9:55
Speaker 1: So I think now, obviously I am working with older
9:58
Speaker 1: athletes now who are in you know, their professional careers,
10:01
Speaker 1: are just kind of starting their professional careers, but I
10:04
Speaker 1: still want to kind of figure out, you know, a
10:06
Speaker 1: way to be that and be able to be a
10:09
Speaker 1: space where we can have those conversations, especially on the
10:12
Speaker 1: female side of things, And I just felt like I
10:14
Speaker 1: didn't always have that, or maybe it took me a
10:17
Speaker 1: long time to kind of grow into that as a
10:20
Speaker 1: woman and as an.
10:21
Speaker 4: Athlete, like later in my career where I felt like I.
10:24
Speaker 1: Could initiate those conversations, but early on, I didn't really
10:28
Speaker 1: know how to do that.
10:29
Speaker 4: I didn't really feel like I could do that.
10:31
Speaker 1: I think the narrative when I was in high school
10:33
Speaker 1: and college was you just didn't really talk about that.
10:36
Speaker 1: And so when I thought about transitioning and like maybe
10:40
Speaker 1: moving into like college coaching, that you know, those were
10:43
Speaker 1: all some of the things I felt like really need
10:45
Speaker 1: to be more present and talked about. And so those
10:48
Speaker 1: are the things I kind of felt like I didn't
10:49
Speaker 1: always have or I didn't maybe always know how to utilize.
10:52
Speaker 2: Can we talk a little bit about the club notes
10:55
Speaker 2: on that?
10:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I know, so I'm not going to force
10:58
Speaker 3: you to get into like an entire scientific deep.
11:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm like, you know, science is not mine.
11:03
Speaker 3: No, No, it's fine, But I do feel like you're
11:06
Speaker 3: talking about this there are probably so many women listening
11:09
Speaker 3: to this right now that are like, hmm, I have
11:11
Speaker 3: absolutely no clue how to optimize what it is that
11:14
Speaker 3: I am doing and why I feel like this on
11:18
Speaker 3: this part of the month versus another part of the month.
11:20
Speaker 2: So like maybe any light highlights you want to sprinkle in, Yeah.
11:24
Speaker 1: I mean I think again, like understanding your menstrual cycle
11:28
Speaker 1: and all of the different phases that I accompany that
11:31
Speaker 1: throughout the month, Like knowing when you have to prioritize recovery,
11:35
Speaker 1: when you need to prioritize fueling, hydrating, when you can
11:39
Speaker 1: actually really push and maximize harder sessions and like get
11:43
Speaker 1: more gains from those, Like all of that is like
11:45
Speaker 1: with like again, I had a coach explain it to me.
11:48
Speaker 1: He was like, it truly is a superpower that women
11:50
Speaker 1: have that they don't always know how to use. And
11:53
Speaker 1: so depending on where you're falling, where races might fall,
11:57
Speaker 1: where big training session or blocks might fall, being able
12:02
Speaker 1: to really understand your own physiology, where you are in
12:05
Speaker 1: your cycle, what your symptoms are, it's very individual with
12:08
Speaker 1: like you know, when you feel really tired, when you're
12:11
Speaker 1: feeling like more bloated, and just like not as great
12:14
Speaker 1: when you are feeling really good, really poppy, Like again,
12:17
Speaker 1: it all it also affects like your muscle tension, all
12:21
Speaker 1: of that, and so it's just like a really amazing
12:24
Speaker 1: tool that we have at our disposal, but a lot
12:26
Speaker 1: of us need help navigating that. And so like at OAC,
12:30
Speaker 1: we're working with or RING and we're hoping to have
12:33
Speaker 1: you know, ways to track that with athletes who want
12:37
Speaker 1: to do that and feel comfortable and open sharing some
12:41
Speaker 1: of that data so we can have a better understanding
12:44
Speaker 1: of how to tweak and adapt training to kind of
12:47
Speaker 1: fit them better throughout the month. And again, the big
12:50
Speaker 1: hope with that is you know you're hopefully scaling back injuries,
12:55
Speaker 1: making sure that fueling is like the need, like the input.
12:58
Speaker 4: Output is where it should be, all of those things.
13:01
Speaker 1: But again, sometimes athletes need help understanding that and kind
13:05
Speaker 1: of need that push to like really look at that.
13:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just like the need to have grace with yourself,
13:10
Speaker 3: like I meant type I feel like your type A.
13:13
Speaker 3: And so in that in that it's like, okay, like
13:17
Speaker 3: I never want to have a bad day. But the
13:20
Speaker 3: thing is is like one bad day doesn't make a
13:22
Speaker 3: bad week, does it make a bad month?
13:25
Speaker 2: Does it make a bad training cycle?
13:26
Speaker 3: And so when you can get to this place that
13:28
Speaker 3: you can have grace with yourself and understand that you
13:31
Speaker 3: need to work with your body, yes, it's such an
13:34
Speaker 3: opportunity and we can.
13:35
Speaker 1: Learn from the bad days. Like bad days are going
13:37
Speaker 1: to happen. You're going to have a handful every month.
13:39
Speaker 1: You're going to have a lot more in an entire
13:42
Speaker 1: training build, and sometimes we even have them on race day.
13:44
Speaker 4: But if you can understand.
13:46
Speaker 1: Maybe some of why you're having the bad day and
13:49
Speaker 1: some of it might be just because of where you are,
13:52
Speaker 1: and things can be tweaked and adjusted moving into like
13:54
Speaker 1: the next phase or the next month, Like you learn
13:57
Speaker 1: from that. So it's like learning to take the bad
13:59
Speaker 1: days to learn more about your body and what you
14:02
Speaker 1: need to adapt and change things to move forward and
14:05
Speaker 1: like grow from that.
14:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you don't work hard for things not
14:08
Speaker 3: to go as you'd hoped. When and if that happens,
14:11
Speaker 3: you then have an opportunity.
14:12
Speaker 1: There's so many things to look to what I want
14:14
Speaker 1: to do need sometimes you need help looking at that
14:17
Speaker 1: because we just look at like why did I like,
14:19
Speaker 1: why did I suck today? You know, like it let's
14:21
Speaker 1: just like be me, I guess so like I'm not
14:22
Speaker 1: like mentally tough enough for you know, X, Y or Z,
14:25
Speaker 1: when a lot of times there's other things going on
14:27
Speaker 1: under the surface that are very much contributing to that,
14:30
Speaker 1: And it's just if we have a better understanding and
14:33
Speaker 1: a support system helping us navigate that, it's a lot
14:36
Speaker 1: easier to give yourself that grace and like move forward.
14:39
Speaker 3: So what I'm hearing you say is the four and
14:41
Speaker 3: a half hour sleep debt I have right now, combined
14:43
Speaker 3: with one hundred degrees temperatures outside in Paris.
14:46
Speaker 4: So it may not be a great day, it might not.
14:48
Speaker 2: Might not make my long run. I'm sorrday go.
14:50
Speaker 4: You may not feel amazing.
14:52
Speaker 3: Well, but who knows. But who's to say, who's to say,
14:55
Speaker 3: and who's to say? Oh my gosh, well you said
14:58
Speaker 3: the eye word in I know. It's something that you
15:02
Speaker 3: have dealt a ton with as an athlete.
15:05
Speaker 2: And also you deal a lot with as a coach.
15:08
Speaker 3: I'd love to unpack a little bit about the chronic
15:11
Speaker 3: injury cycle that you were in when you were a
15:14
Speaker 3: professional and how that really impacted how you showed up.
15:18
Speaker 4: Yeah.
15:19
Speaker 1: I definitely had my fair share of injuries over my career.
15:23
Speaker 1: At points very much felt like I was in a cycle.
15:26
Speaker 1: It's hard like I had. One of my biggest injuries
15:29
Speaker 1: came right after I had this huge breakthrough.
15:31
Speaker 4: In the marathon.
15:32
Speaker 1: I ran my pr I had, you know, qualified to
15:35
Speaker 1: run World Championships in London that year at twenty seventeen,
15:39
Speaker 1: like everything was going my way, and then I had
15:41
Speaker 1: this monster injury that took me out for a year,
15:44
Speaker 1: and I actually couldn't even run for six months.
15:47
Speaker 4: So I think injuries taught.
15:49
Speaker 2: Me a lot.
15:49
Speaker 1: They were really frustrating, and it took me some time
15:53
Speaker 1: to kind of get out of those cycles and really
15:56
Speaker 1: take a step back and figure out why I was
15:58
Speaker 1: kind of continuing to kind of fall into to that
16:00
Speaker 1: and what I needed to change. It's so hard to
16:03
Speaker 1: look at that though easy just to kind of like,
16:05
Speaker 1: all right, I get injured, I get healthy, then I
16:07
Speaker 1: just keep doing the same things. But at a certain
16:09
Speaker 1: point you're like, why am I banging my head against
16:10
Speaker 1: the wall and I'm just kind of getting I keep
16:12
Speaker 1: ending up in the same place. So I feel like
16:15
Speaker 1: over my career now maybe because I'm you know, I
16:19
Speaker 1: can really take that step back. But I'm grateful for
16:22
Speaker 1: a lot of the injuries I had because, like I said,
16:26
Speaker 1: just now about you know, having a bad day and
16:29
Speaker 1: how you reframe that. Injuries really started to make me
16:32
Speaker 1: look at what I needed to change, looking at data,
16:35
Speaker 1: understanding my physiology, sometimes even like looking to make some
16:39
Speaker 1: external changes, whether it was with coaching or you know,
16:43
Speaker 1: how I was approaching training.
16:44
Speaker 4: Things like that. I learned a lot.
16:47
Speaker 1: I feel like some of my biggest breakthroughs came after
16:50
Speaker 1: injury when you do take that time to like really
16:53
Speaker 1: understand what's going on, and so yeah, it was definitely
16:56
Speaker 1: an up and down. Over the thirteen years of my
16:58
Speaker 1: pro career. I was injured a lot in college as well,
17:00
Speaker 1: learned a lot there as well.
17:02
Speaker 4: So yeah, I feel like.
17:05
Speaker 1: Injuries are really tough, but they can teach us something
17:08
Speaker 1: if we're willing to take that step back, and they
17:10
Speaker 1: can make us better, even though in the moment they
17:13
Speaker 1: can be really frustrating and it's you know, you're sad
17:16
Speaker 1: and it's never fun to be on the sidelines, but
17:18
Speaker 1: you can you can take a lot from those experiences
17:21
Speaker 1: if you're willing to look at it that way.
17:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually want to unpack when you were saying
17:24
Speaker 3: that you had to completely take off of running for
17:27
Speaker 3: six months, especially when you are a pro athlete, and
17:30
Speaker 3: that is how you identify what were you filling your
17:32
Speaker 3: time with and how were you able to take care
17:36
Speaker 3: of the mental side of things so that you could
17:38
Speaker 3: keep going about your day to day without getting so
17:41
Speaker 3: down to the dumps.
17:42
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was hard.
17:43
Speaker 1: That was a really tough injury because again, you know,
17:46
Speaker 1: I'm my job is to run. My job is to
17:49
Speaker 1: perform as a professional athlete. At the time, I had
17:52
Speaker 1: a professional contract with Socony and that's how I got paid.
17:56
Speaker 4: Luckily, they were a huge piece.
17:59
Speaker 1: In me being able to take that step back and
18:01
Speaker 1: do the recovery that I needed to do and not
18:03
Speaker 1: feel like I had to rush back from this injury.
18:06
Speaker 1: I didn't have any reductions in my contract. They stood
18:08
Speaker 1: by me. You know, I was supposed to race I
18:11
Speaker 1: think six times over that year, and I didn't race once.
18:15
Speaker 1: So my sponsors stood behind me. They didn't threaten my livelihood.
18:19
Speaker 1: They really allowed me to be able to take that
18:21
Speaker 1: step back and do the things I needed to do.
18:24
Speaker 1: And it was the only way I was going to
18:25
Speaker 1: get over the injury was to actually completely stop running.
18:28
Speaker 1: And that was really really hard because again, you know,
18:30
Speaker 1: as being Type A and being a professional athlete, so
18:34
Speaker 1: much of your identity is tied up in the day
18:37
Speaker 1: to day and training, and you know so much of
18:40
Speaker 1: your social kind of circle is also tied up in that.
18:43
Speaker 1: And then you know, we all want to be able
18:44
Speaker 1: to get out there and race, and the sport doesn't stop, right,
18:48
Speaker 1: so just because you're on the sidelines, it kind of
18:51
Speaker 1: goes on without you and it just feels like you're
18:53
Speaker 1: missing these opportunities and you know you're kind of.
18:56
Speaker 4: Being left behind.
18:57
Speaker 1: So it's a lot to kind of hold and figure
19:00
Speaker 1: out how you want to navigate that space. I was
19:03
Speaker 1: able to do that with my support system. It matters
19:06
Speaker 1: who you surround yourself with, and you know, I had
19:08
Speaker 1: really good people in my corner that helped me kind
19:11
Speaker 1: of break it down and really just focus on the
19:14
Speaker 1: day to day. I picked up journaling at that point.
19:17
Speaker 1: I was never like a journaler, but I started journaling
19:20
Speaker 1: because I found it was really important to focus on
19:23
Speaker 1: the small winds because if you record the small winds
19:27
Speaker 1: from every single day, you look back over a week,
19:29
Speaker 1: two weeks, a month, and you see the progression you're
19:32
Speaker 1: actually making, whereas like when you're just in it day
19:35
Speaker 1: to day, it can be so hard to feel like
19:37
Speaker 1: you're moving forward. It really helped me reframe my perspective
19:41
Speaker 1: and how I looked at things. And I also got
19:43
Speaker 1: to a point where I was like, my body needs
19:45
Speaker 1: a break. Like I think there's that saying where it's like,
19:48
Speaker 1: if you don't schedule breaks for yourself, your body will
19:51
Speaker 1: eventually force you to take one. And my body finally
19:54
Speaker 1: forced me to take a monster one. So I learned
19:56
Speaker 1: from that. I learned how to listen to my body.
19:59
Speaker 1: I learned how to and not push through and just
20:02
Speaker 1: feel like I have to manage this pain, because I
20:05
Speaker 1: managed this injury for like two years before it like
20:07
Speaker 1: finally really like broke me.
20:09
Speaker 4: So I learned a lot about myself.
20:11
Speaker 2: Is this the pelvic injury?
20:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is osti eyedis pubis, So it's basically like
20:14
Speaker 1: the inflammation of the pubic synthesis. But I ran through
20:17
Speaker 1: it for two years and somehow ran my marathon pr.
20:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, and is this one? You came in fifth at
20:25
Speaker 3: the marathon trials? This was after okay, but.
20:28
Speaker 1: I finished sixth in London when I ran to twenty five.
20:32
Speaker 1: And then that's basically when my season, like when everything
20:35
Speaker 1: had to be shut down. I was horribly injured after that.
20:38
Speaker 1: So yeah, I learned about I learned a lot about myself.
20:41
Speaker 1: I learned how to be a better advocate for myself
20:44
Speaker 1: as an athlete and really start to communicate how I
20:48
Speaker 1: was feeling. I learned that I needed a space and
20:51
Speaker 1: a coach that could really give me that and was
20:55
Speaker 1: willing to do things differently so that I could stay
20:57
Speaker 1: healthy and then Yeah, I just learned how resilient and
21:02
Speaker 1: strong I really was to battle back from something like that,
21:06
Speaker 1: and I really do feel like I came back stronger.
21:09
Speaker 4: I never It's frustrating because it's one of.
21:11
Speaker 1: Those where like I never ran faster in the marathon weirdly,
21:15
Speaker 1: but I definitely had.
21:16
Speaker 4: Races where.
21:19
Speaker 1: I still felt like I was hitting, like I was
21:21
Speaker 1: still having those breakthroughs. And I think a lot of
21:23
Speaker 1: that was just psychologically and how I was going into
21:25
Speaker 1: those races because of everything I had learned from the
21:27
Speaker 1: injury in my time away.
21:45
Speaker 3: So many people are so dialed in on a pr
21:48
Speaker 3: PR pr PR, and it's like there are so many
21:51
Speaker 3: other things that can be celebrated, not just on race day,
21:54
Speaker 3: although there are plenty of wins that can happen on
21:56
Speaker 3: race day that have nothing to do with running a
21:58
Speaker 3: personal best, but also within the journey, and you highlighted
22:02
Speaker 3: something that's so important, which is how.
22:04
Speaker 2: We speak to ourselves.
22:05
Speaker 3: Righterson, tell me a little bit about what the journaling
22:08
Speaker 3: process looked by because I know you said you were
22:10
Speaker 3: writing down good things from the day, small winds, et cetera.
22:12
Speaker 2: But was it anything deeper than that?
22:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was funny. One of my he's
22:18
Speaker 1: a good friend and he was my pet at the time.
22:20
Speaker 1: He like challenged me to do this, but he he
22:23
Speaker 1: had a really good perspective on it. He was like, listen,
22:25
Speaker 1: like no one's telling you you can't feel frustrated, you
22:28
Speaker 1: can't feel sad, you can't feel pissed off. Like you
22:32
Speaker 1: you can still have all of these emotions. It's it
22:35
Speaker 1: would be weird if you didn't. And also you can't
22:38
Speaker 1: just push those down and like pretend like everything's fine
22:41
Speaker 1: and you're good, because like you're not. So he was like,
22:43
Speaker 1: find the balance of using the journaling to get some
22:46
Speaker 1: of those out so you're not carrying that around, and
22:50
Speaker 1: then after you do that, then like find one win
22:52
Speaker 1: from the day, like whatever it is, even if it's
22:54
Speaker 1: a small wind. Like you know, I swam one hundred
22:57
Speaker 1: meters and like didn't have pain, or I was able
23:00
Speaker 1: to do this really tiny lateral move in the gym
23:02
Speaker 1: that like I wasn't able to do last week, and
23:05
Speaker 1: like you know, like so he was like, you have
23:07
Speaker 1: to balance it out. So it wasn't like deep stuff,
23:09
Speaker 1: but it was just like taking the time at the
23:12
Speaker 1: end of every day to reflect on all of the
23:14
Speaker 1: things that I was feeling from just this experience and
23:19
Speaker 1: trying to get to overcome this injury that you know,
23:21
Speaker 1: some athletes don't overcome, like it can be a career ender,
23:25
Speaker 1: and for a long time, I didn't know if it
23:27
Speaker 1: would be mine, and so you're kind of grappling with
23:30
Speaker 1: all of that. So he challenged me to really write
23:34
Speaker 1: it all out, and I think during that time is
23:37
Speaker 1: when I learned, in running with injuries and in life,
23:42
Speaker 1: there's a lot of moments where you're going to feel
23:45
Speaker 1: all of those things and it's okay to to feel
23:49
Speaker 1: happy and like celebrate something, but also like grieve and
23:53
Speaker 1: be like it just kind of taught me that, like
23:55
Speaker 1: you can feel those things, and it's important to feel
23:58
Speaker 1: those things, and one doesn't have to cancel out the other. Yeah,
24:01
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what that journaling process started for
24:04
Speaker 1: me as I was kind of trying to figure out
24:07
Speaker 1: ways to like really like navigate this injury space that
24:10
Speaker 1: was such on chartered territory at that time because I
24:13
Speaker 1: didn't have a return date.
24:14
Speaker 3: Right And so fast forward to when you made the
24:17
Speaker 3: decision to retire as a pro athlete, probably a prime
24:21
Speaker 3: example of you utilizing that skill, of you being able
24:25
Speaker 3: to get to this point where you were at peace
24:27
Speaker 3: with your decision, but also you worked so hard to.
24:30
Speaker 2: Come back in your back and you're doing it and.
24:32
Speaker 1: It's like so many emotions. It's like it's like Will
24:35
Speaker 1: Ferrell and Ankorman. You're like, it's just like a glass
24:37
Speaker 1: box of emotions. Like that's how I felt for like
24:40
Speaker 1: six months.
24:41
Speaker 3: Oh my God, bring me to the final race. The
24:46
Speaker 3: final race. You knew that you were going to toe
24:48
Speaker 3: that's starting line.
24:49
Speaker 1: For man my well, my final pro race was the
24:54
Speaker 1: Philly Half Marathon in twenty twenty four. I think at
24:59
Speaker 1: that point I wasn't thinking about it is like my
25:01
Speaker 1: last hurrah, but I definitely was going to test it
25:04
Speaker 1: out because I was, you know, twenty twenty four had
25:07
Speaker 1: been an incredibly hard year. Twenty twenty three wasn't great.
25:10
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty two was also not great. Like I had
25:13
Speaker 1: had kind of three years of just like challenge. I
25:17
Speaker 1: was kind of fighting the process. I was kind of
25:19
Speaker 1: fighting myself psychologically. I felt like my body was just
25:23
Speaker 1: like not responding. I felt like I didn't have as
25:26
Speaker 1: much as I used to have, and I felt like
25:28
Speaker 1: that spark was like slowly kind of fading out. So
25:32
Speaker 1: I dropped out of Orlando the Trials in twenty twenty four,
25:36
Speaker 1: and so I was like, I refused to end my
25:39
Speaker 1: career one way or the other, like I want one
25:41
Speaker 1: more positive experience with the marathon. Chicago was always a
25:44
Speaker 1: really special place for me. It's where I kind of
25:46
Speaker 1: made my comeback from this big injury. It's where I
25:49
Speaker 1: qualified for the twenty twenty Trials and where I really
25:52
Speaker 1: believed I had a shot to make the team. Like
25:53
Speaker 1: it was just always a special marathon for me. So
25:56
Speaker 1: I was trying to get back to Chicago and give
25:59
Speaker 1: the marathon on everything I felt like I had left
26:02
Speaker 1: at that point and just kind of see where that
26:04
Speaker 1: put me. And I felt like that would give me
26:07
Speaker 1: clarity on like what I wanted to do moving into
26:09
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, if I thought I had more left
26:12
Speaker 1: or if I didn't. But unfortunately I didn't make it
26:14
Speaker 1: to the start line of Chicago. I ran the Philly
26:17
Speaker 1: half and blew up my achilles and that was it
26:21
Speaker 1: my last brewery. So seventy three minute half was tough.
26:25
Speaker 3: Okay, us mere mortals over here are like, oh, seventy
26:30
Speaker 3: three minutes.
26:31
Speaker 4: Oh man, Yeah, it was. It was a tough day.
26:34
Speaker 1: And so after that race, I went back to Boulder,
26:39
Speaker 1: did one more really hard week of training and then
26:42
Speaker 1: like really blew things up. And so I think at
26:45
Speaker 1: that point the wheels were kind of turning as far
26:47
Speaker 1: as like, Okay, I don't know, yeah, I might really
26:51
Speaker 1: have to look at this decision a little bit harder
26:53
Speaker 1: than I think I've been looking at it. It's been
26:55
Speaker 1: kind of floating there, but you got the blinders on,
26:58
Speaker 1: and you know again you're just like, so stuff n
27:00
Speaker 1: a determined because as pro athletes, we all want to
27:02
Speaker 1: like say, how we go out, we all want to
27:05
Speaker 1: like have a good one in with the bang right
27:07
Speaker 1: off into the sunset. But more times than not, that's
27:11
Speaker 1: not what happens, and you kind of have to like
27:14
Speaker 1: make those harder decisions for yourself.
27:16
Speaker 3: How do you feel reflecting on it now? Would you
27:19
Speaker 3: say that you're at peace with what happened?
27:22
Speaker 1: I would, because I wouldn't be here if it didn't
27:26
Speaker 1: happen that way. I wouldn't have had this opportunity. It's
27:30
Speaker 1: so funny. I think I talked about this on the
27:33
Speaker 1: Injured Runner podcast with Sydney Kuzma. But I had this
27:37
Speaker 1: moment in twenty twenty four. It was after I dropped
27:40
Speaker 1: out of Chicago. I was pushing to try and run CIM.
27:43
Speaker 1: I went to New York to do the iHeartRadio broadcast
27:47
Speaker 1: for the marathon, which was a really cool opportunity and
27:50
Speaker 1: opened up doors that I didn't realize were there and
27:52
Speaker 1: kind of got me thinking of life after running and
27:56
Speaker 1: the possibilities that existed beyond what I was seeing. You're
28:00
Speaker 1: coming from my job, Yeah, this is awkward to me.
28:03
Speaker 1: I'm going to be hosting this next time Special Guests
28:07
Speaker 1: to watch Out.
28:08
Speaker 4: Watch Out.
28:09
Speaker 1: But I was like running like half injured in Central
28:11
Speaker 1: Park and just so frustrated.
28:13
Speaker 2: Half injured.
28:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I was like my achilles was not good.
28:17
Speaker 1: It was like it was yeah, half injured. Yeah, I
28:19
Speaker 1: had one leg, So I was like fifty percent.
28:22
Speaker 4: Was like it was bad.
28:23
Speaker 1: But I was like so determined to Like I was
28:26
Speaker 1: just hanging so tightly to it because you're so terrified
28:29
Speaker 1: to let go of it because you don't know what
28:31
Speaker 1: comes next and you don't know how to unravel yourself
28:34
Speaker 1: from being Laura sweet professional runner, and so I'm just
28:38
Speaker 1: hanging so tightly and your body is like literally fighting you.
28:41
Speaker 1: You're just at war with yourself. And so that's where
28:44
Speaker 1: I was in twenty twenty four. I obviously made the
28:47
Speaker 1: decision at the end of that year that I was
28:49
Speaker 1: going to call it and open myself up to start
28:52
Speaker 1: figuring out what comes next. And then fast forward to
28:55
Speaker 1: last year, New York, twenty twenty five.
28:58
Speaker 4: I'm back.
28:59
Speaker 1: I'm running around Central Park, this time with both legs
29:02
Speaker 1: and Helen o'piery. So it was just like a moment
29:06
Speaker 1: where I reflected on, like, as hard as twenty twenty
29:10
Speaker 1: four was, and as hard and as frustrating as I
29:15
Speaker 1: felt like I ended my pro career, I'm looking around
29:21
Speaker 1: a year later at what I'm doing, who I'm working with,
29:26
Speaker 1: I'm back in New York, and you're just like, it
29:29
Speaker 1: had to happen that way, because if it didn't happen
29:31
Speaker 1: that way, I wouldn't be here. And so again, so
29:34
Speaker 1: many of my hardships in my running in life have
29:38
Speaker 1: always taught me that in the moment, it's so hard
29:43
Speaker 1: to see, but it's what sets you up for the
29:47
Speaker 1: things that come later. And it just like that was
29:50
Speaker 1: just part of my journey, and I'm so grateful for
29:52
Speaker 1: it like I'm so grateful that I didn't make it
29:53
Speaker 1: to start like of.
29:54
Speaker 4: Chicago, like I can say it now.
29:56
Speaker 1: And again there's you know, there's always like those little
29:59
Speaker 1: kind of like what if, like did I give it everything?
30:01
Speaker 1: But I really do feel like at this point I'm
30:03
Speaker 1: starting to become at peace with how it all ended
30:07
Speaker 1: up working out because it I'm in Paris with you obviously.
30:12
Speaker 1: I mean like I don't know, like life is crazy,
30:14
Speaker 1: Like I can't, I can't complain.
30:15
Speaker 3: I can't with the two legs in Helen O'BII, like
30:18
Speaker 3: suddenly I had two good legs again and everything is fine.
30:22
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Helen, because this is just such a
30:24
Speaker 3: fun thing for you, especially twenty twenty five New York
30:27
Speaker 3: City Marathon new course record, such an outrageous fun high
30:33
Speaker 3: note for you to really jump off on relatively soon
30:38
Speaker 3: into this chapter.
30:40
Speaker 2: I don't want to say it's all because of you.
30:43
Speaker 4: Yes, sorry, Dason was the missing piece.
30:46
Speaker 3: No, we're the missing piece, But I mean it's partly
30:49
Speaker 3: because of you. So what is it that you think
30:52
Speaker 3: it is about your coaching style that works really well
30:56
Speaker 3: with who Helen is as an athlete? Yeah?
30:59
Speaker 1: Again, I when I came into this job, I felt
31:03
Speaker 1: like my number one goal was to build the relationships
31:08
Speaker 1: with the athletes, primarily Joan Helen.
31:11
Speaker 4: I really felt like I had to.
31:15
Speaker 1: Start really slow with them, kind of let them come
31:19
Speaker 1: to me, kind of create that space where they slowly,
31:23
Speaker 1: over time felt like I was someone that they could
31:25
Speaker 1: trust and I was someone that they could see as
31:28
Speaker 1: part of their team with Dathan and Kelsey. So I
31:31
Speaker 1: didn't want to rush that, but that was my number
31:34
Speaker 1: one goal was to just like really be patient with
31:36
Speaker 1: that process and slowly kind of become another piece of
31:40
Speaker 1: their support team. And so that's what I did with
31:43
Speaker 1: both of them. Yeah, it's just you know, like there's
31:47
Speaker 1: you know, there's Daythan there's Kelsey, and then there's myself,
31:50
Speaker 1: and we all have different personalities and there's different dynamics
31:54
Speaker 1: and we bring different things to the table. And I
31:56
Speaker 1: think when I first joined OAC, it took me a
31:58
Speaker 1: little bit of time to figure out out, like what
32:00
Speaker 1: do I bring to this equation, Like what do I
32:02
Speaker 1: bring to the table. How do I, you know, support
32:05
Speaker 1: and balance out what they're bringing, and then how do
32:08
Speaker 1: I do that also with the athletes and kind of
32:11
Speaker 1: provide just like another space for them that's different than
32:14
Speaker 1: what they already have. So that's kind of how I
32:16
Speaker 1: approached it and what I really tried to do with
32:19
Speaker 1: those two.
32:19
Speaker 3: Specifically, aside from allowing the space for them to get
32:25
Speaker 3: to a place where they felt like you could be
32:28
Speaker 3: a part of their team, what else would you say.
32:33
Speaker 2: Did you bring to the table? What are your superpowers?
32:36
Speaker 1: I think my experience, it took me a little bit
32:39
Speaker 1: of time to feel confident in my experience as a
32:43
Speaker 1: professional athlete, especially on the marathon side of things, and
32:47
Speaker 1: figuring out how to bring that across or.
32:50
Speaker 2: Anything that is.
32:53
Speaker 3: I think because this is so relatable in such a
32:56
Speaker 3: broader context, Like there are so many things like if
32:58
Speaker 3: someone was to come to me who is a beginner runner,
33:01
Speaker 3: I'm obviously like not going to step up and help
33:03
Speaker 3: Helen tomorrow, like do any sort of run workout. But
33:06
Speaker 3: if a beginner comes to me, I know that I
33:09
Speaker 3: am experienced enough to help them get started. I know
33:11
Speaker 3: that I can do it safely. I know that I
33:13
Speaker 3: have a coaching certification, Like we're good. But still there
33:16
Speaker 3: might be a moment where I'm like, oh, shoot, do
33:18
Speaker 3: I want to lean into my experience?
33:19
Speaker 2: Do I want to stand here and be a qualified
33:21
Speaker 2: It's so.
33:21
Speaker 1: Hard because I was comparing my experience to Helen Oberi's
33:25
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I.
33:27
Speaker 4: What can I possibly like offer her?
33:29
Speaker 1: And saying with Joe Klecker right, like, I was looking
33:32
Speaker 1: at two of these athletes who are the best, some
33:35
Speaker 1: of the best in the world to do what they do,
33:39
Speaker 1: and I'm like, am.
33:40
Speaker 4: I qualified enough for this?
33:41
Speaker 1: Like?
33:41
Speaker 4: Is my experience?
33:42
Speaker 1: Like? And I feel like sometimes like as women, like
33:45
Speaker 1: I've had other like girlfriends and teammates over the years,
33:48
Speaker 1: and like other women in the sport have like and
33:51
Speaker 1: I feel like I actually I think Emily Enfield like
33:56
Speaker 1: a while ago posted about this, but she was like,
33:58
Speaker 1: why do we like tone ourselves down? And why are
34:01
Speaker 1: we so afraid to lean into the accomplishments that we
34:05
Speaker 1: have done and the achievements we have. We're so afraid
34:08
Speaker 1: we're gonna come off as arrogant or cocky or like
34:11
Speaker 1: we kind of like tone it down.
34:13
Speaker 4: And she's like, why do we do that?
34:14
Speaker 1: Because you know, we're selling ourselves short and we need
34:17
Speaker 1: to be confident in what we have done and continue
34:21
Speaker 1: to like showcase that and like lead the way for
34:24
Speaker 1: like the next wave of girls coming up, and so
34:27
Speaker 1: I kind of like remembered that, and I was like, yeah, okay,
34:30
Speaker 1: my experience is different than theirs. I you know, I
34:33
Speaker 1: had a different career, but I did things in my career,
34:36
Speaker 1: and I'm confident in my knowledge, in my understanding of
34:40
Speaker 1: the marathon. I had great marathons, I had really bad marathons.
34:44
Speaker 1: I had great marathon builds, I had really bad marathon builds.
34:47
Speaker 4: I got injured.
34:48
Speaker 1: I learned so much, and so it's like bringing all
34:51
Speaker 1: of that across and being confident that even though yours
34:54
Speaker 1: doesn't look the same as theirs, it's still really valuable
34:58
Speaker 1: and it's still really helpful for them to have that
35:01
Speaker 1: relatability to you. And I think that went a really
35:05
Speaker 1: long way in just pulling out my own personal experience,
35:09
Speaker 1: especially with Joe as he was navigating making that transition from.
35:13
Speaker 4: The track to the roads. It is hard. Some people
35:17
Speaker 4: do it and it looks effortless.
35:19
Speaker 1: It is not that way. The track in the road
35:21
Speaker 1: could not be more different. The racing, the tactics, how
35:25
Speaker 1: you prepare for it, how you approach it psychologically, Like
35:28
Speaker 1: it's so different, and especially when you're someone like Joe
35:31
Speaker 1: who was an olympian on.
35:32
Speaker 4: The track did what he did.
35:34
Speaker 1: The expectation is so high, and if that's not met
35:38
Speaker 1: according to the public and what they think his ability
35:41
Speaker 1: should immediately be, that's really hard to kind of like
35:44
Speaker 1: hold and figure out how to keep moving through that
35:46
Speaker 1: as you're adjusting to a whole new side of the
35:49
Speaker 1: sport and you're kind of like a freshman all over again.
35:51
Speaker 1: So like kind of realizing that and then pulling from
35:54
Speaker 1: my own experience with that and just kind of being like.
35:57
Speaker 2: You gotta be patient.
35:58
Speaker 1: It's just going to take time, and like each one
36:00
Speaker 1: you do, you get more experience, you learn a little
36:03
Speaker 1: bit more, you get more confident, you kind of are
36:05
Speaker 1: understanding how it's working, and then you take it into
36:07
Speaker 1: the next one. So it was just kind of doing
36:10
Speaker 1: that and being confident that I could do that with
36:14
Speaker 1: these two athletes especially, I think is really what started
36:17
Speaker 1: to help build my relationship with them, where they felt
36:21
Speaker 1: like I could be that support and I could be
36:24
Speaker 1: on their team.
36:25
Speaker 3: And energy attracts like energy, So when you show up
36:29
Speaker 3: and you're confident and what it is that you bring
36:31
Speaker 3: to the table, then they show up and they see
36:34
Speaker 3: your confidence and they're like, Okay, she's good, I can
36:37
Speaker 3: be good.
36:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's be good.
36:39
Speaker 1: You keep a question yourself, and like they can feel
36:42
Speaker 1: that if they feel like you're questioning kind of what
36:44
Speaker 1: you're doing, or you're not coming in kind of like
36:47
Speaker 1: this is how we're going to do it, or you know,
36:49
Speaker 1: with that kind of assertiveness or yeah, just that confidence
36:52
Speaker 1: in who you are and what your experience and ability
36:56
Speaker 1: is to then help them with theirs. If you're not
36:59
Speaker 1: bringing that, can sense that, and they're kind of like, well,
37:02
Speaker 1: should I trust you?
37:03
Speaker 4: Like should we be doing that? Like is what you're
37:07
Speaker 4: saying to me? Like is that right?
37:08
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you don't want them to question
37:11
Speaker 1: because you're questioning. Yeah, So I learned that as you know,
37:14
Speaker 1: I was kind of figuring out the other side of
37:17
Speaker 1: the sport and figuring out how to grow on this
37:20
Speaker 1: side because.
37:21
Speaker 4: It's a to me.
37:22
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it's like a lateral move across.
37:24
Speaker 1: But it was like, oh, man, like I'm starting over. Also,
37:27
Speaker 1: like you know, I'm it's very different being on the
37:30
Speaker 1: coaching side than being on the athlete side, but obviously
37:33
Speaker 1: there's that crossover and it's kind of just figuring out
37:36
Speaker 1: the balance of the two.
37:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even when you were going for this job,
37:40
Speaker 3: there were probably moments where you realize that you needed
37:42
Speaker 3: to be more confident in a your decision to go
37:45
Speaker 3: for the job and then be how you showed up
37:48
Speaker 3: in that process.
37:50
Speaker 4: Yeah.
37:51
Speaker 3: I was chatting with a girlfriend the other day who
37:53
Speaker 3: is like in that waiting period where she's waiting to
37:55
Speaker 3: find out if she gets a job that she's excited about,
37:57
Speaker 3: and she's like, they didn't give me a timeline, And
38:00
Speaker 3: to her, I was like, you need to not worry
38:02
Speaker 3: about like what your quote unquote supposed to do. Yeah,
38:05
Speaker 3: So if you're worried about reaching out, I bet you
38:07
Speaker 3: someone else that's up for this job is reaching out.
38:10
Speaker 3: And so to your point about the you need to
38:12
Speaker 3: be your most confident self.
38:14
Speaker 2: You have to always be your biggest hype human.
38:16
Speaker 3: You do because if you're not going to do it,
38:18
Speaker 3: then you cannot expect anybody else to show up and
38:21
Speaker 3: do it for you.
38:21
Speaker 4: Nope, exactly.
38:22
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that this role has
38:24
Speaker 1: really challenged me with and I feel like I've grown
38:28
Speaker 1: the most in and so that's been really cool. When
38:30
Speaker 1: now that I'm a year in and you're looking at
38:32
Speaker 1: kind of where you started to where you are now,
38:35
Speaker 1: and it's really cool to see that growth and see
38:38
Speaker 1: how much you've learned and to really feel like I'm
38:41
Speaker 1: coming into my own in a very new and different way,
38:45
Speaker 1: and it's it's been really exciting. It's been really cool
38:48
Speaker 1: for me to feel that for myself.
39:06
Speaker 3: What can you say, genuinely feels different now that you're
39:09
Speaker 3: a year in than it did when you started.
39:12
Speaker 4: I'm confident, like I know what I bring to the table.
39:16
Speaker 1: I'm really confident in the relationships that I've built with
39:19
Speaker 1: the athletes that I work with, and I just I
39:23
Speaker 1: believe in myself, and I feel like that really comes
39:26
Speaker 1: across like I believe in myself the way that I
39:28
Speaker 1: want my athletes to believe in themselves. And we're a team,
39:31
Speaker 1: and you know, I believe in what their goals are
39:34
Speaker 1: and what they're capable of, but I have to believe
39:37
Speaker 1: in myself that I can help them get there. And
39:39
Speaker 1: so yeah, I just feel like I have this new
39:41
Speaker 1: confidence in myself and what I'm doing in this role,
39:44
Speaker 1: and it's been really cool to have gotten to grow
39:47
Speaker 1: into it and kind of make it my own. And
39:50
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful to Dathan for allowing me to be
39:53
Speaker 1: able to do that. He was never like, you have
39:55
Speaker 1: to coach like me. I'm never going to be Dathan,
39:58
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm just not. But he was It's like,
40:00
Speaker 1: that's why I hired Kelsey, That's why I hired you.
40:03
Speaker 1: Like I want to balance all of that out, and
40:06
Speaker 1: I want you to make this position yours. I want
40:10
Speaker 1: you to really like lean in to how you want
40:13
Speaker 1: to do things and if it's different for me. He
40:16
Speaker 1: was like, I will struggle with that at first, but
40:19
Speaker 1: he was like I need to be challenged with that
40:22
Speaker 1: and I need people on my staff that really like
40:25
Speaker 1: push me to do that.
40:27
Speaker 4: So he's like, that is why you're here.
40:28
Speaker 1: And so I think last year when I had moments
40:30
Speaker 1: of doubt and I was like what am I doing,
40:33
Speaker 1: I was like, Dathan would not have hired me if
40:36
Speaker 1: he didn't think I could do this, and he didn't
40:38
Speaker 1: think I was capable of working with some of the
40:41
Speaker 1: best athletes in the world. Like he had to really
40:43
Speaker 1: trust me to bring me in to work with Helen.
40:46
Speaker 1: There's a lot of trust that happened that has to
40:48
Speaker 1: happen there. So I would remind myself of that and
40:51
Speaker 1: be like Okay, like you're he like, you got the job, Like,
40:55
Speaker 1: what are you.
40:56
Speaker 4: Going to do with it?
40:56
Speaker 1: You know, like people believe in you, but if you
40:58
Speaker 1: don't believe in yourself, then it doesn't matter.
41:01
Speaker 3: What's the most challenging part of working with an athlete
41:06
Speaker 3: like Helen? And do you think that it is a
41:09
Speaker 3: more high pressure situation now versus when you were competing yourself?
41:13
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:14
Speaker 4: I feel.
41:17
Speaker 1: It's because you're responsible for someone else, someone who's at
41:21
Speaker 1: the very top of the sport and has like everything
41:25
Speaker 1: to lose, Like she is one of the best to
41:28
Speaker 1: ever do it. She was one of the best ever
41:30
Speaker 1: do it on the track, and now she's proving that
41:32
Speaker 1: she's continuing to excel at this level but on the
41:35
Speaker 1: marathon side. So working with her, I feel like an
41:38
Speaker 1: immense amount of pressure to really.
41:43
Speaker 4: Help her continue to push the.
41:44
Speaker 1: Envelope of what she's capable of and to chase down
41:49
Speaker 1: the goals she still believes that she.
41:53
Speaker 4: Can achieve.
41:54
Speaker 1: And I'm a nervous wreck when she races a marathon,
41:57
Speaker 1: like I sweat through everything. It's like the most it's stressful.
42:01
Speaker 1: Two hours and like nineteen minutes, two hours and fifteen
42:04
Speaker 1: minutes of my life because you just like.
42:07
Speaker 4: You don't have the control that you always want to have.
42:09
Speaker 1: And but then it goes both ways, like I want
42:13
Speaker 1: Helen to trust me and I want her to feel
42:15
Speaker 1: like she can do that, but like in return, I
42:17
Speaker 1: have to trust her, and so it's just like balancing
42:21
Speaker 1: of like we trust and respect one another. I think
42:24
Speaker 1: the biggest challenge with Helen is pulling her back. Athletes,
42:28
Speaker 1: like any of the ones that we are lucky enough
42:30
Speaker 1: to work with that OAC they do not need to
42:32
Speaker 1: be like pushed, They do not need to like they
42:35
Speaker 1: have that drive, they have that motivation. They want to
42:38
Speaker 1: be the best of the best. So a lot of
42:41
Speaker 1: the coaching is like figuring out how to balance that
42:44
Speaker 1: and to pull the rains when the rains need to
42:46
Speaker 1: be pulled, like really making sure that all the other
42:49
Speaker 1: bases are covered. How are we fueling, how are we hydrating?
42:52
Speaker 1: How are we recovering from these big sessions? Are we
42:55
Speaker 1: doing all the little things that needs.
42:57
Speaker 4: To be done? Are we in the gym? Are we
42:58
Speaker 4: doing all of that stuff correct?
43:00
Speaker 1: Like it's not just training, it's like forcing them to
43:03
Speaker 1: think about all the things outside of that. So I
43:06
Speaker 1: think sometimes that's the biggest challenge is you're trusting the
43:10
Speaker 1: athlete because you can't feel what they feel. And someone
43:13
Speaker 1: like Helen, who's been in the sport as long as
43:15
Speaker 1: she has, like really has a handle on how she feels,
43:20
Speaker 1: knows what's working. Like you know, she really wants you
43:23
Speaker 1: to have that trust in her, but then you also
43:26
Speaker 1: like need her to have that in you, because when
43:28
Speaker 1: you're an athlete, it's really hard to pull back and
43:34
Speaker 1: see outside of the moment you're in. Yeah, and that's
43:36
Speaker 1: where you need your coaches and your support system to
43:39
Speaker 1: help you balance that out. And so that's what we're
43:41
Speaker 1: always trying to do with someone like her. What would
43:43
Speaker 1: you say the peach in the pit has been from
43:45
Speaker 1: this last year? I love this exercise. It's my favorite.
43:49
Speaker 3: The best part and the worst part, like something that
43:51
Speaker 3: maybe gave you regret.
43:54
Speaker 1: Oh Man, I think the peach was like far is
44:00
Speaker 1: just like Helen goes. I think it was London. It
44:04
Speaker 1: was really cool to see her want to challenge herself
44:08
Speaker 1: in a completely different way and to do something so
44:12
Speaker 1: different from what she had done. And it was cool
44:17
Speaker 1: to see her at this point in her career still
44:20
Speaker 1: wanting to do those things and not just kind of
44:22
Speaker 1: stay with what she knows and what's comfortable. So it
44:25
Speaker 1: was really cool to be part of that journey with her,
44:28
Speaker 1: but it was also hard. Anytime you push the envelope
44:32
Speaker 1: of what your body can do in a completely new way, yeah,
44:38
Speaker 1: there can be risks that comes with that. And so
44:40
Speaker 1: we walked a really fine line with her London build
44:43
Speaker 1: of like going as hard as we felt like we
44:47
Speaker 1: really needed to go, so that we could go and
44:50
Speaker 1: really give that two fifteen to fourteen barrier a crack.
44:55
Speaker 1: But when you're pushing the body in a new way
44:58
Speaker 1: to its absolute life or what the limit is now,
45:02
Speaker 1: I do think Helen can run faster. I think we're
45:05
Speaker 1: still scraping the surface of what she can do in
45:08
Speaker 1: an environment like a London, But right now that is
45:12
Speaker 1: like where that limit was, and so pushing up against it.
45:15
Speaker 1: It's such a fine line because one toe too many
45:19
Speaker 1: over that line and then that's when you know you
45:22
Speaker 1: start to have issues. So the unknown is scary. The
45:25
Speaker 1: unknown is really scary, not only for an athlete, uh,
45:28
Speaker 1: but like for the coaches. Yeah, because again, like you're pushing, pushing, pushing,
45:32
Speaker 1: trying to find where that line is. But if you
45:37
Speaker 1: push just a little too hard and cross over it.
45:40
Speaker 2: It's tough.
45:40
Speaker 1: And so again, when you're working with athletes like Helen
45:43
Speaker 1: who are some of the best in the world, you're
45:45
Speaker 1: very conscious all the time of like what that balance
45:49
Speaker 1: looks like and are we pushing too hard?
45:51
Speaker 4: Are we not pushing enough?
45:52
Speaker 1: Like are we doing are we taking care of all
45:55
Speaker 1: the other things that we need to take care of
45:57
Speaker 1: to keep her healthy and to allow her to do that,
46:00
Speaker 1: You're constantly it's sometimes it's a hard space, like not
46:03
Speaker 1: second guess yourself? Am I doing enough? Am I doing
46:06
Speaker 1: it the right way? Am I approaching this the right way?
46:09
Speaker 1: Can I handle it better? Do I need to like
46:12
Speaker 1: have different conversation, Like it's just you're constantly like what
46:15
Speaker 1: can I do more of? Or what am I not
46:17
Speaker 1: doing enough of to like really help her navigate the unknown?
46:21
Speaker 4: As well?
46:21
Speaker 2: How do you not second guess yourself? Or what do
46:24
Speaker 2: you do?
46:25
Speaker 3: I know, I'm not saying that there is like one
46:27
Speaker 3: strategy that you're going to literally implement like every Tuesday
46:30
Speaker 3: morning at seven fourteen am, and like that's going to
46:32
Speaker 3: be the thing that helps you do this, But there
46:34
Speaker 3: have to be things now that you think about or
46:36
Speaker 3: do that help you stand firm in what it is
46:39
Speaker 3: that you have to offer and how it is that
46:41
Speaker 3: you show up for your job.
46:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing I learned
46:44
Speaker 1: with this London build is how to communicate even better
46:49
Speaker 1: with like Helen, having daily conversations and really challenging her
46:54
Speaker 1: to be to feel like she's in a safe space
46:58
Speaker 1: where she can tell me the truth and be really
47:00
Speaker 1: vulnerable about like what.
47:01
Speaker 4: She is experiencing and where she is at with things.
47:05
Speaker 1: Really prioritizing that is how I felt like I was
47:11
Speaker 1: showing up. And so again, I think so much of
47:15
Speaker 1: coaching is far beyond the training that we write. That
47:20
Speaker 1: is obviously a piece of it, and the athletes have
47:22
Speaker 1: to buy into your philosophy and your structure and kind
47:26
Speaker 1: of how you implement things, But a huge piece of
47:29
Speaker 1: coaching is like all of the other things outside of that,
47:31
Speaker 1: and the psychological component and having those hard conversations and
47:35
Speaker 1: so really challenging myself to be able to do that
47:38
Speaker 1: with her and have that clear line always open every
47:41
Speaker 1: single day was like the best way I felt like
47:44
Speaker 1: I could show up for her and show up for
47:46
Speaker 1: who I needed to be in my job. During that
47:49
Speaker 1: time in her build when we were looking at London.
47:51
Speaker 2: I'm so impressed by you.
47:54
Speaker 4: Oh hype me up.
47:55
Speaker 3: Oh my god, No, I mean you're like you're at
47:57
Speaker 3: a hype helen up all the time, and I'm like,
47:59
Speaker 3: you're doing so such a good job.
48:00
Speaker 2: And it is a stressful thing.
48:02
Speaker 3: I mean, it isn't every day that you get to
48:04
Speaker 3: be around someone that has this type of reputation arguably
48:09
Speaker 3: one of the best to do it right now when
48:11
Speaker 3: it comes to woman's distance running, and here you are
48:13
Speaker 3: showing up and being yourself and bringing your expertise to
48:16
Speaker 3: the table.
48:16
Speaker 2: And I think that's really awesome and really impressive.
48:19
Speaker 4: Thank you.
48:19
Speaker 1: Yes, it's been a journey, but yeah, I've learned a
48:23
Speaker 1: lot and I truly love it. And it's a cool thing,
48:26
Speaker 1: as you know, to be able to do your passion.
48:29
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky that I get to do this
48:32
Speaker 1: day in and day out.
48:33
Speaker 2: So what I'm hearing you say is you're not coming
48:35
Speaker 2: from my job.
48:36
Speaker 1: Just you know, you're safe for now until I turn
48:41
Speaker 1: another chapter, until she's like, oh, till I morph into
48:44
Speaker 1: something else.
48:45
Speaker 3: Until we transition again. Okay, speaking of that, what excites
48:49
Speaker 3: you right now? What are you looking forward to for
48:51
Speaker 3: the rest of twenty twenty six.
48:53
Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm looking forward to hopefully continuing to grow
48:59
Speaker 1: my team.
49:01
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to the fall.
49:03
Speaker 2: How does that work?
49:04
Speaker 1: Tell us?
49:04
Speaker 2: Like how that works?
49:05
Speaker 3: Like you're saying, I'm looking forward to hopefully continuing to
49:07
Speaker 3: grow my roads team. So, like, if the next great
49:10
Speaker 3: athlete is listening to this right now, is it like,
49:12
Speaker 3: let's slide into Laura's zim.
49:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want you message me. Yeah. I mean a
49:17
Speaker 4: lot goes into that.
49:19
Speaker 1: It's timing, it's you know, having that long term picture
49:24
Speaker 1: and looking at younger athletes that you want to develop
49:26
Speaker 1: and you're kind of looking beyond twenty twenty eight.
49:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of things that go into that.
49:31
Speaker 4: You know.
49:31
Speaker 1: It was it was so awesome last year signing Ryan
49:35
Speaker 1: Ford and Patrick Kiprop.
49:36
Speaker 4: They have brought so much to the roadside.
49:40
Speaker 1: They've really helped Joe and then he has in turn
49:44
Speaker 1: helped them. So it's been really cool to see our
49:47
Speaker 1: men's side of that kind of get solidified.
49:50
Speaker 4: And what you can really.
49:51
Speaker 1: Do is you like grow it with the right athletes
49:53
Speaker 1: that have that mindset and all want to challenge and
49:57
Speaker 1: push each other to be the best that they can be.
50:00
Speaker 1: So I really want to continue to do that on
50:02
Speaker 1: the women's side, and I really want to do that
50:04
Speaker 1: with Helen. She tells me she's not planting on slowing
50:08
Speaker 1: down anytime soon, so I'm hoping to have her for
50:10
Speaker 1: at least two more Olympic cycles.
50:13
Speaker 4: But I would like to also.
50:15
Speaker 1: Bring in kind of that next generation of women behind
50:19
Speaker 1: her to not only be able to have someone like
50:21
Speaker 1: Helen as a mentor, but I think in turn it
50:24
Speaker 1: would really help and challenge Helen in new ways to
50:28
Speaker 1: have some female teammates on the road side of things.
50:33
Speaker 1: So that's definitely a big goal of mine as we
50:35
Speaker 1: kind of round out twenty twenty six and look into
50:37
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven, is how I can do what we've
50:40
Speaker 1: managed to do so far with the men, like I
50:42
Speaker 1: really want to focus on that with the women.
50:45
Speaker 2: It's so exciting. It's so exciting.
50:47
Speaker 3: Right now, someone comes to your Instagram page, they see
50:50
Speaker 3: a former pro herself who is now coaching for OAC.
50:55
Speaker 3: But when you look in the mirror, Laura, what is
50:57
Speaker 3: it that you see looking back at you? Oh?
51:01
Speaker 4: Man, hit me with a tough one.
51:04
Speaker 2: I can't let you go without thinking about crying.
51:06
Speaker 1: At least, well, say, what are you doing to me? Yeah,
51:10
Speaker 1: that's a great question. I I don't really know how
51:16
Speaker 1: I see myself. I see myself as Bill. Still, I've
51:20
Speaker 1: learned that who I was as an athlete that very
51:26
Speaker 1: much still lives within me, and I realized that didn't
51:29
Speaker 1: have to go anywhere just because I decided to retire competitively,
51:33
Speaker 1: and so I still very much have her in me.
51:36
Speaker 1: And I think because I realize that that piece could
51:41
Speaker 1: still very much be alive, that has really like morphed
51:46
Speaker 1: into how I see myself as a coach and more
51:50
Speaker 1: of a professional in this next phase of my career
51:53
Speaker 1: in the sport. But it's all because of what I
51:57
Speaker 1: did prior and who I was during those early years
52:02
Speaker 1: even into the later years of my career.
52:04
Speaker 4: They all kind of made me who I am.
52:05
Speaker 1: So it's kind of you're figuring out that you're all
52:08
Speaker 1: the pieces of yourself and you don't have to like
52:11
Speaker 1: just because a chapter in doesn't mean that part of
52:13
Speaker 1: you ins it's just kind of like morphing into this
52:16
Speaker 1: into this new part of your life, you're kind of
52:19
Speaker 1: just continuing to evolve and become, but like the old
52:22
Speaker 1: pieces are all still there. Like making up for kind
52:24
Speaker 1: of who you see Now.
52:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, you get to bring that with you if you
52:28
Speaker 3: choose to write. I mean, it's always going to be
52:30
Speaker 3: there foundationally, but it en it's up to you to say,
52:33
Speaker 3: this is something that's going to help me, this is
52:35
Speaker 3: something that's going to grow me, or maybe this is
52:37
Speaker 3: something that I do need to leave yeah behind definitely.
52:41
Speaker 2: Now before I let you go, you're gonna hit me
52:44
Speaker 2: with another one.
52:45
Speaker 4: One more really.
52:47
Speaker 2: Good takeaway for me.
52:49
Speaker 3: You have an opportunity to offer yourself a piece of
52:51
Speaker 3: advice looking back on the Hurlle moment, which was the
52:54
Speaker 3: endless cycles of injury that led to eventually after that comeback,
52:59
Speaker 3: the slow burnout of knowing it was time for you
53:02
Speaker 3: to step away as a professional, knowing what you know now,
53:05
Speaker 3: what advice would you offer to yourself during that Hurtle moment?
53:09
Speaker 4: I would say, don't compare yourself.
53:12
Speaker 1: I early young Laura, in my early professional career and
53:18
Speaker 1: definitely in college, would look at other athletes, look at
53:22
Speaker 1: how they were getting the results that I wanted, and
53:26
Speaker 1: I was so convinced that I had to do it
53:28
Speaker 1: that way. And I think that was a piece of
53:30
Speaker 1: why I kept getting injured and so twenty twenty. This
53:35
Speaker 1: is why I, to this day I say Atlanta was
53:38
Speaker 1: probably the best best race of my career. It was
53:42
Speaker 1: certainly the most heartbreaking, but it was also the best
53:45
Speaker 1: because I approached that marathon in a completely different way.
53:49
Speaker 1: I was coming off the monster injury. I was working
53:52
Speaker 1: with someone who was willing to do it differently. I
53:55
Speaker 1: only ran probably an average of sixty miles a week,
53:59
Speaker 1: did a lot of got myself to the start line
54:02
Speaker 1: healthy because I was healthy, and I felt so good
54:06
Speaker 1: in my body, and I felt so strong. I stood
54:09
Speaker 1: on that start line that day believing it was my
54:11
Speaker 1: team to lose, and I was like, there's no way
54:13
Speaker 1: I'm leaving Atlanta without an Olympic berth. I did, but
54:18
Speaker 1: I ran it the only way I could have where
54:23
Speaker 1: I walked away obviously heartbroken, but I had absolutely no
54:27
Speaker 1: regrets because I put it all out there. But I
54:30
Speaker 1: could not have done that had I not been willing
54:33
Speaker 1: to finally change it up and do it differently and
54:36
Speaker 1: do it my way. So I wish that I would
54:38
Speaker 1: have done that earlier and not been so stuck on
54:40
Speaker 1: it has to look a certain way, because it certainly doesn't.
54:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, you met yourself with where you were in that
54:46
Speaker 3: moment and what a special opportunity.
54:49
Speaker 2: Yep, that was Laura Thweet.
54:50
Speaker 4: What a time, what a time?
54:52
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
54:54
Speaker 3: For those that aren't following along with you just yet,
54:57
Speaker 3: where do they find you on the socials?
54:59
Speaker 1: I'm really only on one. I'm on Instagram, Elf wheat,
55:04
Speaker 1: that's kind of it. I'm thirty seven, guys. I don't
55:06
Speaker 1: have a TikTok.
55:07
Speaker 2: That's okay.
55:08
Speaker 4: I have Instagram. I don't have a YouTube channel.
55:11
Speaker 3: The up and coming elites are going to be in
55:13
Speaker 3: your dfs starting on message me, Message her, Message her,
55:20
Speaker 3: last thing. You have this really special, one of a
55:23
Speaker 3: kind access to someone like Helen o'biery. It makes me
55:26
Speaker 3: want to ask you if you wanted to listen to
55:28
Speaker 3: a podcast with anyone that you don't have access to
55:31
Speaker 3: right now. In the Running World, Season twenty one of
55:35
Speaker 3: Hurdle is exclusively dedicated to running Cool Fine love that,
55:40
Speaker 3: So I am trying to get some Rex into the universe.
55:44
Speaker 3: Do you have anyone that you want to nominate for Hurdle?
55:49
Speaker 1: Man? I feel like when people ask me these questions,
55:51
Speaker 1: my mind goes blank and I'm like, I don't know
55:52
Speaker 1: anyone I'm not.
55:54
Speaker 2: I don't know anyone.
55:55
Speaker 3: She's at all of the major marathon, she's in everybody's
55:58
Speaker 3: everybody circles.
56:00
Speaker 2: Is there any woman that you think I should have
56:02
Speaker 2: on the show.
56:03
Speaker 4: I would say, Okay.
56:04
Speaker 1: I would say either Amanda Vestri, that's so funny, we're
56:07
Speaker 1: in chats. Or Rudel is having an enormous breakout year.
56:14
Speaker 1: Her story is very very interesting. Talk about someone who
56:17
Speaker 1: has done it a completely different way and needed to,
56:20
Speaker 1: who has really battled through things in her own journey
56:26
Speaker 1: in the sport, and then it's incredible what she's doing now.
56:31
Speaker 1: So I would say Amanda for sure, I think have
56:34
Speaker 1: really interesting stories to tell.
56:36
Speaker 3: I'm over at Hurdle Podcast at Emily Body another hurdle conquered.
56:41
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.