Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1078: Foundations - In-Season E-Scouting to Find Mature Bucks Now
Transcript
- 0:01Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired2Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide to the
- 0:05Speaker 1: fundamentals of better deer hunting. Presented by First Light, creating proven,
- 0:10Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle, or blind. First Light,
- 0:15Speaker 1: go farther, stay longer. And now, your host, Tony Peterson.
- 0:20Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast,
- 0:22Speaker 2: which is brought to you by First Light. I'm your host,
- 0:24Speaker 2: Tony Peterson. And today's episode is all about why this
- 0:27Speaker 2: could be the most important part of the season to
- 0:29Speaker 2: e-scout and just how to go about that process so
- 0:31Speaker 2: you can find your buck. You guys know kind of
- 0:35Speaker 2: how I feel about following most of the deer hunting
- 0:38Speaker 2: advice out there. And really, this episode is just kind
- 0:41Speaker 2: of about that contrarian view or, you know, takes that
- 0:44Speaker 2: contrarian mindset and really kind of runs with it. A
- 0:47Speaker 2: lot of folks will tell you this is the easiest
- 0:49Speaker 2: time to screw up your deer plan. And if you
- 0:51Speaker 2: want to kill a big buck, you better tread lightly
- 0:52Speaker 2: for the next week or two at least. But I disagree.
- 0:55Speaker 2: And I think mid-October is actually a really good time
- 0:57Speaker 2: to hunt. But it's also a time where a successful
- 0:59Speaker 2: hunt probably won't happen where you want it to. That's okay.
- 1:02Speaker 2: There's a way around it. And that way starts with e-scouting,
- 1:04Speaker 2: which might seem a little bit weird, but it's not.
- 1:06Speaker 2: Allow me to explain why right now. Not too long ago,
- 1:17Speaker 2: the news was dominated by drones in New Jersey, whisperings
- 1:20Speaker 2: of government disclosure on non-human intelligence, and, well, a whole
- 1:24Speaker 2: bunch of stuff around aliens and UAPs that was, depending
- 1:27Speaker 2: on how you feel about the topic, interesting, terrifying, exhilarating,
- 1:31Speaker 2: or just a load of horseshit. I guess we got
- 1:33Speaker 2: tired of the drone thing because now it's A.I. Will
- 1:36Speaker 2: artificial intelligence kill us or allow us to live in
- 1:38Speaker 2: perfect harmony with a pile of resources at our disposal?
- 1:42Speaker 2: Will we be wiped out by autonomous weapons controlled by
- 1:45Speaker 2: superintelligence that is emotionless or see cancer cured? Maybe both.
- 1:50Speaker 2: Maybe neither. But if you see any news stories anywhere,
- 1:53Speaker 2: there's a high likelihood that the topic of our impending
- 1:56Speaker 2: doom when it comes to artificial superintelligence is going to
- 1:59Speaker 2: pop up somewhere. But what is intelligence really? For the
- 2:02Speaker 2: most part, it's pattern recognition, which allows for accurate predictions.
- 2:07Speaker 2: When you hear someone say AI is just large language models,
- 2:11Speaker 2: what they're saying is that those programs were fed enormous
- 2:14Speaker 2: amounts of human-generated data. Research papers, Reddit forums, blog posts,
- 2:19Speaker 2: YouTube comments, Shakespeare's complete works, and pretty much anything we've
- 2:23Speaker 2: generated that consists of words, which is a lot of stuff.
- 2:27Speaker 2: The intention was to develop something that could predict what
- 2:29Speaker 2: would come next in a sentence. but it has gone
- 2:32Speaker 2: way beyond that at this point. But think about that
- 2:34Speaker 2: for a second before you come to too many conclusions
- 2:38Speaker 2: and put it into the deer world. Who are the
- 2:40Speaker 2: best deer hunters? The ones who have no idea what
- 2:43Speaker 2: a deer will do or the ones who can predict
- 2:45Speaker 2: with a high level of accuracy what deer should do?
- 2:49Speaker 2: I've had the good fortune of hanging with some amazing
- 2:51Speaker 2: dog trainers in my life, and I can tell you
- 2:53Speaker 2: they are good for a lot of reasons. not the
- 2:55Speaker 2: least of which is that they can damn near see
- 2:58Speaker 2: into the future when it comes to dog behavior. And
- 3:01Speaker 2: even though dogs are individuals, they've digested so much dog
- 3:05Speaker 2: behavior that they are very accurate in their assessment of
- 3:08Speaker 2: what will happen next in a training situation, or any
- 3:11Speaker 2: situation with dogs, really. When you can predict what will happen,
- 3:16Speaker 2: you can get ahead of a problem. You can shape
- 3:18Speaker 2: its direction in a way that results in a positive outcome.
- 3:22Speaker 2: In the deer world, the same rules apply, and there
- 3:25Speaker 2: are so many ways to develop this skill. You can
- 3:28Speaker 2: consume massive amounts of content around your style of hunting
- 3:31Speaker 2: and learn a thing or two. For real, I mean that.
- 3:34Speaker 2: You can also spend years in the woods scouting and
- 3:36Speaker 2: hunting and watching deer, and that will certainly help you
- 3:39Speaker 2: predict deer movement. That's a good way to go about it,
- 3:43Speaker 2: even if that is a very long game approach. To
- 3:46Speaker 2: make the most of that, you can also employ some
- 3:49Speaker 2: valuable tools. I think mobile setups and the willingness to
- 3:52Speaker 2: use them rank right up there with the most valuable
- 3:54Speaker 2: tools a whitetail hunter can have. Trail cameras, you know,
- 3:58Speaker 2: they're a no-brainer here too. Good binos on stand and
- 4:01Speaker 2: the willing to use them often, they are as well.
- 4:04Speaker 2: So are scouting apps like OnX, which offer so much
- 4:08Speaker 2: in the way of learning the land and cross-checking that
- 4:11Speaker 2: with actual deer sign and actual deer sightings. That's what
- 4:15Speaker 2: I really want to dive into here because I've been
- 4:17Speaker 2: scouting so much lately and I've been hunting some and
- 4:20Speaker 2: just using satellite imagery to sort of figure things out.
- 4:24Speaker 2: I was reminded of how important this is a couple
- 4:26Speaker 2: of weeks ago when I was thinking about taking the
- 4:28Speaker 2: girls to Wisconsin on a spiker mission when I just
- 4:31Speaker 2: started to look at a chunk of public that I
- 4:33Speaker 2: really like to hunt. It doesn't really look any different
- 4:36Speaker 2: from thousands of acres around it, but it does have
- 4:39Speaker 2: a tiny trout stream that you really can't even see
- 4:41Speaker 2: on satellite imagery. It also borders some private land. including
- 4:44Speaker 2: two parcels that have fields on them. One I know
- 4:47Speaker 2: is corn this year, and the other is horse hay.
- 4:50Speaker 2: But in an area with almost no ag, walking half
- 4:53Speaker 2: a mile or a mile to a hay field is
- 4:55Speaker 2: something that a lot of deer will do. I think
- 4:57Speaker 2: this is true for obvious reasons. You know, like they
- 5:00Speaker 2: can gobble up some greenery in a world of browsing.
- 5:03Speaker 2: And some mast. But also being able to feed at
- 5:06Speaker 2: night in the open, where wolves and bears and coyotes
- 5:09Speaker 2: and bobcats live, it's also just a wise choice if
- 5:11Speaker 2: you're a prey animal. I like that property, and I
- 5:15Speaker 2: really like one particular spot on that property that has
- 5:18Speaker 2: a very subtle saddle between two swampy areas. That saddle
- 5:21Speaker 2: sits below a big hill on one side and a
- 5:24Speaker 2: subtle hill on the other side. It has a couple
- 5:26Speaker 2: of huge oaks on it, which is a nice bonus,
- 5:29Speaker 2: but mostly it's just a season-long pinch point that is
- 5:32Speaker 2: tucked into the timber between where they might go to
- 5:34Speaker 2: feed and where they might go to bed. Now, as
- 5:37Speaker 2: I zoomed in on that spot, I toggled through the
- 5:39Speaker 2: 3D map option and and then used the elevation slider
- 5:42Speaker 2: to exaggerate the up and down nature of the land
- 5:45Speaker 2: around it. It kind of became plain as day why
- 5:48Speaker 2: they're crossing there, and why I've killed my biggest public
- 5:50Speaker 2: land buck in Wisconsin exactly on that spot. But I
- 5:54Speaker 2: also thought, I wonder if I can find another spot
- 5:56Speaker 2: like that in the same area. So if the wind
- 5:58Speaker 2: sucks for my main spot, I have a backup location.
- 6:02Speaker 2: So I started scrolling around, and realized that maybe a
- 6:04Speaker 2: mile and a half away, in an area I have
- 6:07Speaker 2: only grouse hunted briefly, and not for quite a while
- 6:10Speaker 2: I might add, I saw a similar setup with a
- 6:13Speaker 2: hayfield on private, a good-sized hill, some low stuff, and
- 6:17Speaker 2: what looked like another tight saddle. Now, what does that mean? Well,
- 6:21Speaker 2: I don't really know yet because I haven't gone in
- 6:23Speaker 2: there to look around, but my hope is that it'll
- 6:26Speaker 2: play out similarly to the other spot. And you know
- 6:28Speaker 2: what that does for me? It just cuts in half
- 6:31Speaker 2: my presence on either spot right off the bat. If
- 6:34Speaker 2: I can bounce between the two spots like that, I
- 6:37Speaker 2: can pick and choose more carefully which one I hunt
- 6:39Speaker 2: and when. The fear of blowing a big one out
- 6:42Speaker 2: gets cut by 50% pretty quickly, at least on paper. Now,
- 6:46Speaker 2: I'm not going to point to the stands before I
- 6:48Speaker 2: step into the batter's box here, because I don't know
- 6:51Speaker 2: if that spot will hunt as well as the first location.
- 6:54Speaker 2: But you can bet I'm going to find out. And
- 6:56Speaker 2: all of that took me a few minutes of e-scouting
- 6:58Speaker 2: while sitting on a couch and scratching a black lab
- 7:00Speaker 2: behind your ears. In my experience, this is the time
- 7:04Speaker 2: of season where a lot of hunters kind of pump
- 7:07Speaker 2: the brakes. The opener is all excitement and optimism. And
- 7:10Speaker 2: if a buck doesn't go belly up for them, then
- 7:12Speaker 2: it's time to take it slow until the pre-rut is
- 7:15Speaker 2: definitely on. If you hunt pressured ground and follow that pattern,
- 7:19Speaker 2: I feel like you're making a mistake. I don't really
- 7:21Speaker 2: know any other way to put it. And that might
- 7:23Speaker 2: seem hard to believe if you're dealing with low or
- 7:25Speaker 2: no deer movement right now, but that's exactly what I'm
- 7:28Speaker 2: talking about. When you can't find deer, you can either
- 7:32Speaker 2: say they aren't moving or assume they are and go
- 7:35Speaker 2: find them. This works if you have 50,000 acres of
- 7:39Speaker 2: public land or 50 acres of private land. That first
- 7:42Speaker 2: funnel I mentioned, one of the few spots on public
- 7:45Speaker 2: land that I've ever encountered a buck I'm positive was
- 7:48Speaker 2: 160 inches. I went back and I looked at it
- 7:50Speaker 2: after getting distracted by finding other spots just like it.
- 7:53Speaker 2: But instead of satellite imagery, I looked at it with
- 7:55Speaker 2: a topo map and the LiDAR layer on. A LIDAR
- 8:10Speaker 2: is an active remote sensing technology that fires off rapid
- 8:14Speaker 2: pulses of laser light to measure distances. It then uses
- 8:18Speaker 2: that data to create extremely accurate three-dimensional maps of the
- 8:22Speaker 2: land and the objects that are on the land. So
- 8:25Speaker 2: in other words, it lets you see the shape of
- 8:28Speaker 2: the land without having to try to look through the
- 8:29Speaker 2: forest canopy. Not only does this technology allow archaeologists the
- 8:34Speaker 2: opportunity to find ruins that have long been swallowed up
- 8:37Speaker 2: by the Amazon jungle... but it lets deer hunters look
- 8:40Speaker 2: at their deer ground in a way that it was
- 8:42Speaker 2: impossible to see before. I can't really describe how valuable
- 8:46Speaker 2: this can be, but as an experiment, if you've never
- 8:49Speaker 2: done it and have the option, look at your favorite
- 8:52Speaker 2: deer spots this way. I don't care if they are
- 8:54Speaker 2: on grandma's farm or out at the lease or whatever.
- 8:57Speaker 2: Just look at them with that fresh set of eyes,
- 9:00Speaker 2: because that will usually show you something you didn't know
- 9:02Speaker 2: about the area. You know, why they walk in the
- 9:05Speaker 2: way they do, or why they show up in mid-October
- 9:08Speaker 2: to a certain spot, whatever. This is just feeding data
- 9:11Speaker 2: into your brain to allow you to better recognize patterns
- 9:14Speaker 2: of deer behavior, and it's sort of a self-reinforcing loop.
- 9:18Speaker 2: You can do what I just said, or you can
- 9:20Speaker 2: go out and scout in person and look at the
- 9:22Speaker 2: satellite imagery and LiDAR layers and all that stuff when
- 9:25Speaker 2: you're out there standing in the spot, too. Both work,
- 9:28Speaker 2: and both are really, really valuable. This is a thing
- 9:31Speaker 2: that will not only make you a better whitetail hunter,
- 9:34Speaker 2: but also make you more lethal if you ever pull
- 9:35Speaker 2: the trigger on a mule deer or an elk hunt.
- 9:38Speaker 2: It'll help you find more public land roosters and grouse,
- 9:41Speaker 2: and what I've found recently can actually help you find
- 9:43Speaker 2: schools of smallmouth and muskies when you're out fishing. The
- 9:46Speaker 2: technology we have access to is crazy stuff, and it
- 9:50Speaker 2: absolutely can help you better understand the land. I also
- 9:54Speaker 2: think that this is important because it's effort you can
- 9:56Speaker 2: put in before the hunt, or I guess anytime when
- 10:00Speaker 2: you're actually not hunting. Too many whitetail hunters go set
- 10:03Speaker 2: a spot and then try to make something happen there
- 10:06Speaker 2: like you would, you know, when trying to strike up
- 10:08Speaker 2: a bugling bull in the mountains. But the whitetail game
- 10:11Speaker 2: is won mostly when you're not in the woods. It
- 10:14Speaker 2: just is. And that's sort of the beauty of the
- 10:16Speaker 2: whitetail versus the rest of the game out there, especially
- 10:19Speaker 2: Western game. They allow you to figure them out year
- 10:23Speaker 2: round and apply what you've learned when the season hits.
- 10:26Speaker 2: Let me give you another example. In the beginning of September,
- 10:29Speaker 2: I paddled into a piece of public land that I
- 10:31Speaker 2: hunted when I was a teenager and haven't set foot
- 10:34Speaker 2: in for a long, long time, like 15 or 20
- 10:38Speaker 2: years probably. When I was hiking around trying to find
- 10:40Speaker 2: spots to arrow a buck in October, a lot of
- 10:43Speaker 2: memories came back to me. And, you know, as is
- 10:47Speaker 2: the case when you revisit an old friend after a
- 10:49Speaker 2: long absence, I realized how much things have changed. I
- 10:52Speaker 2: also found some killer spots and left feeling really good
- 10:55Speaker 2: about my chances. But when I got home, I pulled
- 10:58Speaker 2: up that property and looked at it with LIDAR. And
- 11:01Speaker 2: let me tell you, the big picture view I had
- 11:03Speaker 2: taken with me from e-scouting beforehand and then actually walking
- 11:06Speaker 2: the ground became something else. The knobs I found beds
- 11:11Speaker 2: on are plain as day. And so are some very
- 11:14Speaker 2: subtle crossings on ravines and washouts. I found an old
- 11:17Speaker 2: logging road on recent satellite imagery that looked like it'll
- 11:20Speaker 2: be a scrape fest when I hunt there. But with LiDAR,
- 11:23Speaker 2: I can see what is actually going on on that
- 11:25Speaker 2: particular hillside, you know, from the ridge top to the
- 11:28Speaker 2: valley below without actually seeing the logging road. Now I
- 11:32Speaker 2: can take a very likely travel route, as old logging
- 11:35Speaker 2: roads on hillsides usually are, and pinpoint where the bucks
- 11:38Speaker 2: are most likely to be concentrated on it. You know,
- 11:41Speaker 2: the entire length of it that I can hunt. I
- 11:43Speaker 2: can look at the whole thing and pick my spots.
- 11:46Speaker 2: When the forecast calls for a west wind or a
- 11:48Speaker 2: north wind or whatever, I can find a spot to
- 11:50Speaker 2: sit that movement instead of writing it off because my
- 11:54Speaker 2: knowledge of it is too general, if that makes sense.
- 11:56Speaker 2: I know every piece of that travel route. This gets
- 12:00Speaker 2: easier to read if you toggle on the slope layer too.
- 12:04Speaker 2: But a lot of the stuff I've been talking about
- 12:06Speaker 2: is most useful if you hunt terrain with some elevation changes.
- 12:10Speaker 2: That's my favorite ground to hunt, but I also spend
- 12:12Speaker 2: a lot of time on really flat ground, which is
- 12:14Speaker 2: a totally different thing. If that flat ground is big
- 12:17Speaker 2: woods type of habitat, it's even worse. Now you're looking
- 12:21Speaker 2: for transitions in cover where, you know, softwoods meet hardwoods
- 12:25Speaker 2: or where slightly lower and wetter ground meets slightly higher
- 12:28Speaker 2: and drier ground. Subtle stuff that when you're in it,
- 12:31Speaker 2: you know, is sort of obvious, but it's impossible to
- 12:34Speaker 2: see the big picture when you're standing next to a swamp.
- 12:38Speaker 2: This is the kind of situation where identifying possible bedding
- 12:40Speaker 2: areas is really tough, because the cover is everywhere. Out west,
- 12:45Speaker 2: and in some places in the Midwest with a lot
- 12:46Speaker 2: of ag and really limited cover, that's a totally different story.
- 12:50Speaker 2: The easiest thing to find is bedding cover, but pinch
- 12:53Speaker 2: points or subtle food sources might be a different story here.
- 12:57Speaker 2: We all know some of the easier stuff to e-scout,
- 12:59Speaker 2: and it's all good. I think the more you think
- 13:01Speaker 2: about this stuff, the better off you're going to be.
- 13:03Speaker 2: But I also think there's a hidden benefit to e-scouting
- 13:06Speaker 2: right now, even if you don't fully intend to put
- 13:08Speaker 2: boots on the ground. It sparks curiosity. When you listen
- 13:12Speaker 2: to a publicly known deer hunter and they speak without
- 13:15Speaker 2: a hint of curiosity, I'd say one of two things
- 13:18Speaker 2: is going on. They either have extreme confidence in themselves,
- 13:22Speaker 2: or they are hunting in situations where the mystery is
- 13:24Speaker 2: just gone. They know where the bucks live on the
- 13:27Speaker 2: ground they hunt, and they know it's a matter of time.
- 13:29Speaker 2: But if you listen to a hunter who talks like
- 13:31Speaker 2: they are curious, you're listening to something else. Curiosity gets
- 13:35Speaker 2: you to break the deer hunting norms. It gets you
- 13:38Speaker 2: doing things others won't. And it is the process by
- 13:41Speaker 2: which we expand our available strategies to meet more and
- 13:44Speaker 2: more different types of hunting scenarios and conditions. When you're
- 13:48Speaker 2: sitting on your couch, wishing it was the rut, but
- 13:51Speaker 2: knowing you have a couple of weeks to get there,
- 13:53Speaker 2: do some e-scouting. Don't just look at the aerial imagery
- 13:57Speaker 2: to confirm what you already know. but mess around a
- 13:59Speaker 2: little to see if you can dig deeper. What usually
- 14:02Speaker 2: happens is that it leads to some level of curiosity. Like,
- 14:07Speaker 2: I always sit a stand on the edge here, but
- 14:09Speaker 2: sometimes I see the bucks cross the valley way over there. Why?
- 14:13Speaker 2: Most folks won't do the work to walk over there
- 14:15Speaker 2: and see, let alone to try to figure it out
- 14:17Speaker 2: with a scouting app. But that crossing, which is probably
- 14:20Speaker 2: not very obvious, has something the deer like, and with
- 14:23Speaker 2: some e-scouting, you can almost always start to tease out
- 14:27Speaker 2: the why behind that travel. Or maybe you're just trying
- 14:30Speaker 2: to get it better at predicting where bucks will bed
- 14:32Speaker 2: in your neighborhood, like I am. So you start looking
- 14:35Speaker 2: for those benches and those knobs and those spots with
- 14:37Speaker 2: just a slight uphill advantage that might offer them a
- 14:41Speaker 2: better chance at threat detection when the wind is straight
- 14:44Speaker 2: out of the south or whatever. Find a few of
- 14:47Speaker 2: those while e-scouting and go look at them in person.
- 14:49Speaker 2: Or lace up your hiking boots and go look for
- 14:52Speaker 2: some rubs. And then when you find them, look at
- 14:55Speaker 2: them on your scouting app. Look at the area. Go
- 14:57Speaker 2: find some rubs or a scrape. then take a long
- 15:00Speaker 2: look around make your predictions on the why behind it
- 15:04Speaker 2: and then expand your scope of understanding by looking at
- 15:06Speaker 2: the area on your scouting app while toggling through the
- 15:09Speaker 2: most relevant layers check the wind map in those spots
- 15:13Speaker 2: maybe drop a camera to see what you can learn
- 15:16Speaker 2: but the point here is that this isn't the time
- 15:18Speaker 2: of the season to accept all the bucks are nocturnal
- 15:20Speaker 2: and you don't need to be anywhere near them because
- 15:22Speaker 2: they are unkillable this is the time to try some
- 15:25Speaker 2: things out and to scout with some intention despite what
- 15:29Speaker 2: a lot of folks say, you have very little to
- 15:32Speaker 2: lose by doing this right now and a whole lot
- 15:35Speaker 2: of experience to gain. And I'll say this, if you
- 15:38Speaker 2: start scouting around now to try to find a couple
- 15:40Speaker 2: locations that just pique your curiosity and then you actually
- 15:44Speaker 2: hunt them with a plan, you are far more likely
- 15:47Speaker 2: to run into a mature buck than the folks who
- 15:49Speaker 2: just aren't doing that. So get out there and come
- 15:53Speaker 2: back next week because I want to talk about scrapes,
- 15:55Speaker 2: some of the research behind them, some personal experience, and well,
- 15:59Speaker 2: a lot about this type of deer sign that can
- 16:00Speaker 2: be a really, really good thing to concentrate on if
- 16:03Speaker 2: you plan to hunt in mid-October. That's it for this week.
- 16:07Speaker 2: I'm Tony Peterson. This has been the Wired to Hunt
- 16:09Speaker 2: Foundations podcast. As always, thank you so much for all
- 16:12Speaker 2: of your support. Everyone here at MeatEater, we truly appreciate it.
- 16:15Speaker 2: We have the best audience ever, so thank you for that.
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