Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Did ex-cop/karate instructor murder his teen-bride after child molest claims, then flee to China?

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Did ex-cop/karate instructor murder his teen-bride after child molest claims, then flee to China? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: to speaking to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Goose Quick
1:13
Speaker 1: police higher shot and killed his wife at their home
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Speaker 1: back in March two thousand and five. The shooting happened
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Speaker 1: a few days after the X cop failed to show
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Speaker 1: off a court on charges seem molested a tenne old
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Speaker 1: girl in Dorchester County. Neighbors reported seeing Hires leave the
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Speaker 1: house a few hours before his wife's body was found.
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Speaker 1: Hires was seeing our surveillance video with drawing hundreds of
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Speaker 1: dollars in cash at a column And County convenience store.
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Speaker 1: A t M. How can one guy elude police for
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Speaker 1: ten years, leaving behind a wake of pain, including at
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Speaker 1: least one dead body that we know of? I Nancy Grace,
1:48
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: I'm talking about none other than the evil Daniel Hires
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Speaker 1: and with me to figure it out. A panel of
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Speaker 1: all stars. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
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Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, psychotherapist out of New York, and boy do
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Speaker 1: we need to shrink? Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, author
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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and professor of forensics Jacksonville
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Speaker 1: State University. High profile North Carolina lawyer Kathleen Murphy and
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Speaker 1: joining me right now from the state newspaper in Columbia,
2:23
Speaker 1: South Carolina. Travis Bland Travis, why tell me? Do you
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Speaker 1: know what? Start at the beginning? He was born in
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Speaker 1: nineteen two, and he grew up in a town called
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Speaker 1: Hampton or Hampton County, which is just on the edge
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Speaker 1: of South Carolina's Low country. Boy, you are starting at
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Speaker 1: the beginning. Hold on, don't you want to go back
2:42
Speaker 1: to Jest station. That would be nine months before for
2:45
Speaker 1: Pete's like, okay, go ahead, I want to hear the
2:47
Speaker 1: whole thing. Okay, So coming up in Hampton County, Heavy County,
2:51
Speaker 1: the place known for its watermelon festival actually, and as
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Speaker 1: he grew up he became kind of an athletic fellow.
2:55
Speaker 1: According to the U. S. Marshals, he was into physical fitness.
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Speaker 1: And I read one reporter's into basketball and one things
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Speaker 1: he got into was karate. Well, Travis Travis, Travis, Travis.
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Speaker 1: Hold on, you know what, we may all be experts
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Speaker 1: in our field, but we still want to hear the story.
3:12
Speaker 1: Don't make me drink from the fire hydrant. You're going
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Speaker 1: too fast. And for another thing, right there, Cheryl McCollum.
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Speaker 1: The other day, I was at John David's soccer game
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Speaker 1: and I saw one of the coaches all bulked up.
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Speaker 1: I'm like, David Lynch, don't let me catch you five
3:27
Speaker 1: hours in the gym. Not that there's any threat of that,
3:30
Speaker 1: but when I see a guy all bulked up. I'm like,
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Speaker 1: why is he spending so much time in the gym
3:36
Speaker 1: instead of his like forty minute run for his heart.
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Speaker 1: I don't like that right there, Okay, because he needs
3:42
Speaker 1: to be at work supporting his family, not being a
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Speaker 1: gym rat. I agree completely. But Nancy, I'll tell you
3:48
Speaker 1: that's another way they might be catch you. Those types
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Speaker 1: of habits and hobbies they will not give up. Well,
3:54
Speaker 1: I just wonder if there's any steroid use. But I'm
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Speaker 1: far far ahead of Travis Bland, reporter for the state newspaper,
4:01
Speaker 1: who was I believe you had just gotten out of
4:03
Speaker 1: his gestational period in his mother's room, So go ahead. Yes, Well,
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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that happens as he
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Speaker 1: grows up, as he becomes a cop in his early twenties,
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Speaker 1: he gives a career in law enforcement. Um, and he's
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Speaker 1: a cop. From the early nineties to the mid two thousand's,
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Speaker 1: he was even a school resource officer. So that's a
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Speaker 1: police officer in a school. That's what they called here
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Speaker 1: in South Carolina, I believe other places too, And and
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Speaker 1: that's in the Charleston area, and people remember him being
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Speaker 1: a school resource officer and so from all educations of
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Speaker 1: normal stand up person who wants to, you know, serve folks.
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Speaker 1: Then in two thousand and four, that's when the story
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Speaker 1: of Hires really changes. That's the year that Charleston Area
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Speaker 1: police charged him with committing a rude act on a child.
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Speaker 1: And the girl he allegedly molested was ten years old,
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Speaker 1: and she was part of a karate class that Hires
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Speaker 1: was in, and the girl's mother told the media that
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Speaker 1: at first Hired wait wait, wait, wait, Travis Travis Bland
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Speaker 1: held on, was he in the class or teaching the class?
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Speaker 1: I'm unclear on that. I believe just because of his age,
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Speaker 1: he would have to be some sort of instructor in it.
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Speaker 1: But that, okay, hold on just a moment, right there,
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Speaker 1: right there, Jessic Scott Morrigan, We've analyzed so many cases.
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Speaker 1: Why is it the karate in structure? Are the purvs?
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Speaker 1: Why is that? I mean, there's so many of them.
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Speaker 1: It's the karate instructor. Yeah. It makes me reflect back
5:28
Speaker 1: to a case uh back in uh in South Louisiana,
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Speaker 1: which I don't know where the fellow had been extradited
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Speaker 1: from Texas. Dad was waiting by the phone book by
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Speaker 1: the phone booth in Baton Rouge and shot the guy
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Speaker 1: as soon as he got off the off the plane.
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Speaker 1: And he had been a karate instructor. I don't know.
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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of it. It's very it's
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Speaker 1: a very intimate kind of kind of relationship that an
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Speaker 1: individual will have with a student because they're teaching the
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Speaker 1: moves and all these sorts of things. I'm not gonna
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Speaker 1: sit here and impugne to everybody that's involved in martial arts,
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Speaker 1: but there seems to be a thread there. Yeah. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I'm not trying. Fact I want to. I've had the children,
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Speaker 1: both of them, John David and Lucy and karate when
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Speaker 1: we were out living in California, and I'm going to
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Speaker 1: put them back into karate. But I keep hearing about
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Speaker 1: karate instructors getting into all sorts of trouble. You're talking
6:18
Speaker 1: about Leon Gary Pluche, who became a vigilante ist when
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Speaker 1: he shot down Jeff do Quet, the karate instructor who
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Speaker 1: allegedly molested his son. Okay, that's a whole another can
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Speaker 1: of worms. Karate instructors, forgive me everywhere, Alright, Travis, go ahead,
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Speaker 1: what happened with the ten year old girl, well according
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Speaker 1: to her mother and reporting the posting courier at the
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Speaker 1: time the girl. At first his mother thought that was
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Speaker 1: kind of odd of the girl's mother excuse me, and
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Speaker 1: befriended her. What do you mean, be friend? You know what?
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Speaker 1: Hold on, take a listen to this, Travis and I
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Speaker 1: just don't tell anyone. This is our secret. Probably like
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Speaker 1: the second week of karate class. You know, he just asked,
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Speaker 1: you know, what was what's your name? Who did you
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Speaker 1: come here with? Like, where's your mom? Dan was trusted
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Speaker 1: by the mother because he was a police officer. I
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Speaker 1: did trust him. He was brought up in the church
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Speaker 1: from a small town I mean good you know, good
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Speaker 1: Christian family. Okay, hold on, I hear a good Christian family,
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Speaker 1: a cop, a small town karate instructor. Now take a
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Speaker 1: listen to the molestation victim, Lauren Ramsey. We all got close,
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Speaker 1: and my mom felt that, you know, she can trust
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Speaker 1: him to take me to karate classes or to soccer
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Speaker 1: practice if she was working or couldn't do it. He
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Speaker 1: would pick me up in his cop car, let me
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Speaker 1: push all the lights and all the buttons and stuff.
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Speaker 1: But I did. I felt very safe because you know,
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Speaker 1: as a police officer, you're here to you know, protect
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Speaker 1: and you know served. He would sometimes try to touch
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Speaker 1: me and appropriate places, and I didn't really catch on.
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Speaker 1: I just kind of like blocked it out. I didn't
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Speaker 1: want to tell anyone. He told me that they wouldn't
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Speaker 1: believe me if I told um. He was like, you know,
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Speaker 1: I'm a police officer, They're not gonna believe. A little girl,
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Speaker 1: Leslie says her daughter met Hires in a karate class.
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Speaker 1: He showed no interest in the mother was keenly interested
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Speaker 1: in the little girl, twenty years younger than him, took
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Speaker 1: her shopping, bought her expensive gifts, drove her to karate class,
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Speaker 1: sent the little girl flowers. The mom was a single
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Speaker 1: mom and got suspicious at first, but then she grew
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Speaker 1: to trust him, even planning to designate him as the
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Speaker 1: girl's legal guardian in case of an emergency. Okay, all
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Speaker 1: that changed after she watched a video about inappropriate touching
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Speaker 1: at school and the girl told her mom Hires had
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Speaker 1: been touching her. Oh my goodness. He would take the
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Speaker 1: little girl to Walmart parking lots and similar locations to
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Speaker 1: finnel her repeatedly and make her touch him Okay, so
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Speaker 1: that's the good guy we're talking about, but it doesn't
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Speaker 1: in there now. Hires, allegedly still on the run eluding
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Speaker 1: cops for ten years, is wanted for a lot more
9:23
Speaker 1: than that. No one in our investigation ever had a
9:26
Speaker 1: cross word to say about Mila. She was viewed as
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Speaker 1: a hard worker, she held a job, she was trying
9:32
Speaker 1: to get an education, and I was a good wife.
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Speaker 1: A lot of people give the impression that both Dan
9:37
Speaker 1: and Mila were on good terms and had a happy,
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Speaker 1: loving relationship. She would state things like Dan not showing
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Speaker 1: her any attention, that she would have to initiate any
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Speaker 1: type of physical contact with him, and that his friends
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Speaker 1: would compliment her, but he would never compliment her. That's
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Speaker 1: from our friends at Crime Watch Daily. First of all,
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Speaker 1: I can tell you right now there's something way wrong
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Speaker 1: with that. Lauren Howard, new York psychotherapist. I mean, um,
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Speaker 1: you know what, if you don't feed a dog, it'll
10:07
Speaker 1: eite next door, same thing. It's just no offense to
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Speaker 1: Travis Bland and just Scott Morgan here on the panel.
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Speaker 1: And I hope my husband is not listening, But you
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Speaker 1: know what, when your husband shows absolutely no interest in you,
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Speaker 1: whether you're interested or not at that moment. To Kathleen Murphy,
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Speaker 1: North Carolina family lawyer, I mean that's one of the
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Speaker 1: first signs of trouble. Well, Nancy, I think the real
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Speaker 1: first sign of trouble is that he met his wife
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Speaker 1: when she was fifteen and he was twenty three, and
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Speaker 1: they married two years later. That, along with the ten
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Speaker 1: year old child and some of the allegations made with
10:46
Speaker 1: respect to his inappropriate behavior while in China, we clearly
10:50
Speaker 1: have a sexual predator and there's something way wrong. Lauren Howard, Well,
10:54
Speaker 1: you know, they're many marriages where there's not sexual activity
10:59
Speaker 1: between partners, so that in and of itself is really
11:01
Speaker 1: you know, people lie about how having sex. Um, the
11:05
Speaker 1: fact that he didn't show any interest, it's really not
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Speaker 1: enough to be indicative of anything. But there are other
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Speaker 1: things that we've been hearing and looking at that are
11:14
Speaker 1: so you know, doesn't matter. Um. But I would say
11:18
Speaker 1: that ended of itself is not if it has well,
11:21
Speaker 1: you know, Lauren, that may be the opinion of a
11:24
Speaker 1: New York psychotherapist, but Cheryl McCollum in the real world, Um,
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Speaker 1: it's laughable. Well, not just that Nane the wife was
11:33
Speaker 1: his victim of a homicide. But it says to me
11:36
Speaker 1: she knew something, whether it's his computer searches, whether or
11:41
Speaker 1: not he had child porns, whether or not she knew
11:43
Speaker 1: of other people that allege things to her. Um, I
11:48
Speaker 1: think she knew a lot. That to Travis Bland, reporter
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Speaker 1: for the state newspaper in Columbia, Travis, let's take it
11:55
Speaker 1: from there. The fact that the wife actually told people
11:59
Speaker 1: he's just out into me. Yeah, that's the reports that
12:03
Speaker 1: I saw as well. And there was also some indications
12:06
Speaker 1: that there was some other problems with the relationship that
12:09
Speaker 1: her family knew about as well. Um, but I think
12:12
Speaker 1: the bigger problems why you can't just drop a bomb
12:16
Speaker 1: and walk away. What do you mean other problems her
12:18
Speaker 1: family knew about? What problems well, the problems the Posting
12:21
Speaker 1: Courier reported on them in her family said that they
12:25
Speaker 1: knew he wasn't interested in her um physically, and that
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Speaker 1: you know, their relationship was distant. Um, that there was
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Speaker 1: issues like that, and there was some problems from the
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Speaker 1: beginning of that that her family never really wanted her
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Speaker 1: to marry Hires to begin with. The Posting Courier reported
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Speaker 1: an ex cop accused of molesting a ten year old
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Speaker 1: little girl and then murdering his wife. Has he been
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Speaker 1: arrested in China after leading the cops on a wild
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Speaker 1: goose chase. Thirteen years tim plus years on the lamb.
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Speaker 1: We're talking about Daniel William Hires, Junior or former police
13:03
Speaker 1: officer in Charleston, South Carolina, reportedly living abroad as an
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Speaker 1: English teacher. I want to go back to the murder
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Speaker 1: of his wife. Take a listen as investigators describe their murder, saying,
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Speaker 1: here's Karen Nicks from Charlotte Police and Dennis Susca from
13:20
Speaker 1: the U. S. Marshal Service. Upon entering the bedroom, Mila
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Speaker 1: Candy seen laying in the bed um obviously dead from
13:29
Speaker 1: a gunshot wound. It appears as if she was sleeping
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Speaker 1: and was not awake at the time when she was murdered.
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Speaker 1: A patrol officers and had already determined that there was
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Speaker 1: no firearm in the bedroom or any other part of
13:42
Speaker 1: the residents. He visited escorts, he would frequent strip clubs,
13:47
Speaker 1: and in fact, there are some allegations that he may
13:51
Speaker 1: have even uh dated some other females that were in
13:54
Speaker 1: high school age. I believe Dan Hires is a coward.
13:57
Speaker 1: He waits until she's asleep and shoot her in the
14:00
Speaker 1: back of the head. The bullet was of the same
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Speaker 1: caliber of a gun that Dan Hires possessed. You are
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Speaker 1: hearing from not only police, but from the U. S. Marshals.
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Speaker 1: So to me, that changes everything. Sheryl McCollum, director of
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Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute. When the wife is claiming
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Speaker 1: he has no interest in hurt whatsoever, and now we
14:23
Speaker 1: find out he's his strip clubs, ordering escorts and possibly
14:27
Speaker 1: even dating young girls. This guy's leaving a hell of
14:32
Speaker 1: a double life. Oh absolutely, He's not trying to hide
14:35
Speaker 1: it because he can't. And Nancy, I guarantee you when
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Speaker 1: they start interviewing these escorts and interviewing these other folks,
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Speaker 1: he either made them dressed like a schoolgirl pretend to
14:45
Speaker 1: be a schoolgirl. He definitely has an age range that
14:49
Speaker 1: probably ends at about fifteen. So that's what he's If
14:53
Speaker 1: you look at his marriage to Kathleen Murphy, family lawyer, Kathleen,
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Speaker 1: I mean he's well up in his twenties and he's
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Speaker 1: dating a fifteen year old girl right there. I mean
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Speaker 1: that waves a red flag to me. That would be
15:06
Speaker 1: a clue. Yeah, I mean, I have a fifteen year
15:10
Speaker 1: old daughter, as you well know. I wish somebody twenty
15:13
Speaker 1: four would knock on my door. It would be a
15:15
Speaker 1: different show we'd be doing. Yeah, you've been waiting to
15:18
Speaker 1: wrack that shotgun for a long time, Cheryl McCollum. Believe me,
15:22
Speaker 1: everybody be warned. Guys. We're talking about this guy, Daniel
15:28
Speaker 1: William Hires. And what's so ironic is he was once
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Speaker 1: a cop, then karate instructor accused him molesting a ten
15:36
Speaker 1: year old girl after getting the trust of her single mom.
15:39
Speaker 1: The mom noticed he was never interested in her, but
15:41
Speaker 1: always interested in the little girl. Then the wife ends
15:45
Speaker 1: up dead. Travis Bland joining us special guest from the
15:48
Speaker 1: state newspaper in Columbia. Travis, how was his wife discovered dead? Well,
15:55
Speaker 1: his mother actually went to look for Hires after he
15:58
Speaker 1: didn't show up to surrender and self on one station charge.
16:02
Speaker 1: And then his mother found her shot in the head.
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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, so higher shoots and kills his wife.
16:08
Speaker 1: I believe it was the actual morning he was supposed
16:12
Speaker 1: to surrender to police on sex abuse charges. Now those
16:17
Speaker 1: sex abuse charges, were they connected to the little girl? No?
16:21
Speaker 1: These were different. This was a different charge from a
16:24
Speaker 1: different police agency in the Charleston area. I believe those
16:27
Speaker 1: charges relate to a girl who was even younger, a
16:29
Speaker 1: nine year old girl. Opera In other reports stars Travis Bland.
16:35
Speaker 1: Did the wife have any idea this was going on.
16:38
Speaker 1: There's no indication that I've seen that she had any idea.
16:41
Speaker 1: Now from what we are told, um, he goes on
16:45
Speaker 1: the run, even though there's a reward for twenty five
16:48
Speaker 1: tho dollars for tips leading to his capture, and according
16:52
Speaker 1: to sources in Shanghai, a former university student in China
16:57
Speaker 1: now in California happened to look at the U. S.
17:00
Speaker 1: Marshal Service Most Wanted list and recognizes hires, alleging he
17:06
Speaker 1: was an English teacher overseas that has not been verified.
17:11
Speaker 1: That he was extremely popular, tall, handsome, not to me,
17:16
Speaker 1: but apparently to some people, and that he tried to
17:19
Speaker 1: court the school girls, allegedly harassing one of the girls
17:26
Speaker 1: when she rebuffed him by sending pornographic images. Now, what's
17:32
Speaker 1: really interesting to me, in addition to solving the crimes,
17:35
Speaker 1: is how this guy, who is a repeat child molester
17:40
Speaker 1: and now I believe a murderer, manages to blend in
17:45
Speaker 1: with society, not only blend in, but gained the trust
17:49
Speaker 1: of so many people. Take a listen to Dennis Susco
17:53
Speaker 1: us Marshall. Dan's personality is such where he is generally
17:57
Speaker 1: good mannered and can easily and into many different environments.
18:02
Speaker 1: UM he comes across as being genuine and trustworthy. Dan's
18:07
Speaker 1: double life included UH frequent trips to strip clubs, prostitutes,
18:13
Speaker 1: escorts as well as other females that were very close
18:18
Speaker 1: to being miners. After murdering Meal, while we believe Dan
18:21
Speaker 1: left the residents and her red Chevy Aveo and fled
18:25
Speaker 1: the area and then after that, the last known potential
18:30
Speaker 1: location would have been in the state of Texas, where
18:33
Speaker 1: his car was found abandoned in hospital parking lot. Of course,
18:37
Speaker 1: our initial investigation UH concentrated on him possibly fleeing to Mexico.
18:43
Speaker 1: There have been numerous leads that we have followed up
18:46
Speaker 1: in UH, Mexico as well as other countries and to
18:50
Speaker 1: include Canada, UH, the United Kingdom, Australia. How did Daniel
18:55
Speaker 1: William Hires junior elude police for ten years plus around
19:01
Speaker 1: thirteen years now listen to this. He was placed as
19:05
Speaker 1: a social chameleon that could convince everybody he was a
19:09
Speaker 1: straight up guy. He was put rights like putting the
19:13
Speaker 1: fox in the hen house. At the time of his
19:15
Speaker 1: arrest the first time before he got away, he was
19:18
Speaker 1: a resource officer at West Ashley High School and had
19:22
Speaker 1: been on the Charleston Police Force for six years. One
19:27
Speaker 1: little girl he allegedly molested told the Posting Courier that
19:32
Speaker 1: she and her daughter had met him at guess where,
19:35
Speaker 1: a karate glass where the girl was taking classes, and
19:39
Speaker 1: the mom thought that he was becoming a father figure
19:42
Speaker 1: in her child's life. He even let the girl play
19:45
Speaker 1: with the lights and sirens on his patrol car, would
19:50
Speaker 1: give her rides all over town, and she was totally
19:56
Speaker 1: naive giving him complete access to her daughter. But that's
20:00
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. There is a murder. To
20:04
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, give
20:08
Speaker 1: me your expertise in analyzing the actual murder and the
20:12
Speaker 1: murder scene. She's asleep, so she's zero threat to him.
20:16
Speaker 1: They're not fighting, she's not trying to harm him in
20:19
Speaker 1: any way. He needs her dad for what purpose? If
20:23
Speaker 1: he was going to get in the car and flee
20:26
Speaker 1: the us marshalls haven't found it. How was she gonna
20:29
Speaker 1: find it? He killed her because of what she knew.
20:34
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take you again. The computer searches on you know,
20:38
Speaker 1: their home computer, his phone. She knew if her family
20:44
Speaker 1: knew that this man was not actually attracted to her,
20:47
Speaker 1: think of what she knew. When you keep referring to
20:49
Speaker 1: computer searches, what do you mean exactly? Straight up? He
20:55
Speaker 1: liked young girls. He dated and married her between fifteen
21:01
Speaker 1: and seventeen. Once she aged out of what he found
21:05
Speaker 1: sexually attractive, he was done with her. He becomes a
21:09
Speaker 1: school resource officer so that he has controlled over these victims.
21:14
Speaker 1: He knows their background, whether or not their dad is
21:17
Speaker 1: in the home. He knows who's got other problems that
21:20
Speaker 1: might need a shoulder to cry on, so to speak.
21:23
Speaker 1: He has access to these children without anybody overseeing him.
21:29
Speaker 1: And then what does he do when he goes to
21:31
Speaker 1: the karate class. He immediately starts asking them, Hey, who
21:34
Speaker 1: brought you off here? Who's gonna pick you up? Oh?
21:37
Speaker 1: I'm happy to take her back and forth while you're
21:39
Speaker 1: at work. That means he knows dad gumb well, mama
21:43
Speaker 1: is nowhere around. She's at work. I've got you by myself,
21:47
Speaker 1: and of course she's sweet and kind and wonderful. That's
21:51
Speaker 1: the monster he is. If he weren't those things, he
21:54
Speaker 1: couldn't get these victims to trust him and get in
21:57
Speaker 1: the car along with him, repeated to lure Howard, renowned
22:01
Speaker 1: New York psychotherapist, joining us today, way in on this
22:05
Speaker 1: pattern that is emerging. This is the you know, the
22:09
Speaker 1: I hate to be the bleeding heart person here. This
22:12
Speaker 1: is a very sick man and that he's a sociopath,
22:16
Speaker 1: and this is what happened. This is the behavior to
22:19
Speaker 1: be charming, to be engaging, to be manipulative, to pick
22:23
Speaker 1: your victims by their vulnerability. That it's clear, this is
22:27
Speaker 1: a clear pattern of sociopathic behavior. And it's it's evidenced
22:31
Speaker 1: by even when he split and went away and left
22:36
Speaker 1: the country and was not able to be found, he
22:39
Speaker 1: was doing the same behaviors. This is a compulsion, it's
22:43
Speaker 1: a it's an irresistible behavior. And this is you know,
22:48
Speaker 1: unfortunately not the first time we've seen or heard of
22:53
Speaker 1: this proclivity. And it's um. You know, you could call
22:56
Speaker 1: him a monster and yeah, but the fact is he
23:00
Speaker 1: is deeply, deeply ill and usually unfortunately beyond being fixed.
23:06
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that is the problem. You'll hear that
23:09
Speaker 1: from child molesters. They'll say, I am aware of the
23:12
Speaker 1: fact that I cannot be fixed. I can only not
23:15
Speaker 1: do it, but I can't not stop wanting to do it.
23:19
Speaker 1: You know what is the genesis of that? That's a
23:22
Speaker 1: much longer conversation. I could give it to you. I
23:24
Speaker 1: could explain to you how that the sexual imprint and
23:27
Speaker 1: that that need occurs early on in their lives, but that,
23:32
Speaker 1: you know, that's a subject for another day. So I
23:34
Speaker 1: would love to hear it. I would love to hear it.
23:36
Speaker 1: But a person's sexuality is um is imprinted on them
23:42
Speaker 1: at a certain point in their development that is usually
23:45
Speaker 1: way pre puberty and unconscious really to adults. For instance,
23:51
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. UM a person UM someone
23:55
Speaker 1: I worked with, had a fetish for fifties lingerie. He
24:00
Speaker 1: could not be sexually aroused unless a woman was wearing
24:04
Speaker 1: fifties lingerie and it had to be polyester and it
24:08
Speaker 1: it couldn't be sat and it couldn't be it had
24:10
Speaker 1: to be girdles. Girdles turned him on. Now, why is that?
24:15
Speaker 1: Because in his early years when he had his first
24:19
Speaker 1: sexual awakening, and again pre puberty when he was first
24:24
Speaker 1: turned on. And we're learning people are turned on much
24:26
Speaker 1: earlier than we think. He saw his mother putting on
24:30
Speaker 1: her girdle and that imprinted on him. You hear about
24:33
Speaker 1: people with with shoe fetishes, same thing. It's there. You know,
24:39
Speaker 1: we all know that there are things that occur in
24:41
Speaker 1: our history where all of a sudden it strikes up.
24:44
Speaker 1: You know, there's a memory. It had a profound effect
24:46
Speaker 1: on us. And it's odd because we want to go,
24:48
Speaker 1: why didn't something that happened two weeks later or that
24:51
Speaker 1: seems more important to have a profound effect on us.
24:54
Speaker 1: There's no no way to predict what will affect us
24:58
Speaker 1: at what time, what the cocktail of personality and character
25:01
Speaker 1: development is that gets affected at any given time. So
25:05
Speaker 1: with with people with this this sickness, it's usually triggered
25:11
Speaker 1: by their first sexual awakening. It's not just that he's
25:16
Speaker 1: a monster or a pig or a terrible man. He's
25:19
Speaker 1: a very, very sick, sick man. And because he's a sociopath,
25:24
Speaker 1: he's able to figure out how to manifest his illness
25:27
Speaker 1: and hide and hide literally, which is what he did well.
25:31
Speaker 1: He apparently changed his appearance, grew a beard, gained weight
25:34
Speaker 1: on purpose hiding out in Shanghai. Or he manages to
25:38
Speaker 1: worm his way back into a job teaching young girls,
25:41
Speaker 1: immediately starting to hit on them, send them porn, make
25:45
Speaker 1: advances on them, eluding American authorities for going on thirteen years,
25:51
Speaker 1: leaving behind a dead body. And I hear all that
25:55
Speaker 1: that's all the more reason not to wear girl ladies.
25:57
Speaker 1: I don't know who invented that, I'm sure a man.
26:00
Speaker 1: But long story, same thing for control top panty host
26:03
Speaker 1: forget about it, um, But long story short, the polyester,
26:10
Speaker 1: girdle and lingerie isn't a crime victim. Ten year old
26:14
Speaker 1: girls and a dead wife are so Joe Scott Morgan,
26:18
Speaker 1: I'd like you, as a death investigator and author of
26:22
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet, available on Amazon. Plug plug for
26:26
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, please analyze the crime scene
26:31
Speaker 1: as Cheryl McCullum did and advised me your take on
26:34
Speaker 1: the murder scene. Well, you know, Cheryl had painted this
26:38
Speaker 1: picture of the wife in a completely vulnerable position. Uh.
26:45
Speaker 1: Police had mentioned earlier that that she appeared uh to
26:50
Speaker 1: have been sleeping. Now he advanced on her and she
26:54
Speaker 1: This was not even made, uh to look like a suicide.
26:58
Speaker 1: Remember what they said, Uh, there was a round a
27:03
Speaker 1: bullet that was recovered at the scene that was consistent
27:06
Speaker 1: with one of his weapons that he owned. So it
27:09
Speaker 1: wasn't the weapon was not found in proximity to him.
27:12
Speaker 1: But apparently they found, uh found something to compare this
27:16
Speaker 1: with that would put that weapon into his possession. She
27:19
Speaker 1: was shot in the back of the head, So this
27:21
Speaker 1: is not like he attempted to make this look like
27:23
Speaker 1: a suicide or anything like this. She's shot. She's literally
27:27
Speaker 1: executed in the bed. This is my hope and and
27:31
Speaker 1: one of the things that I teach my students at
27:33
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State. Look, when you were processing a scene, you
27:37
Speaker 1: have no idea, you have no idea how long it's
27:41
Speaker 1: going to take this case to come around. You have
27:44
Speaker 1: to do the best job that you possibly can in
27:47
Speaker 1: process in the scene. In this particular case, we've got
27:50
Speaker 1: a guy that is over a decade down range from
27:53
Speaker 1: the event. My hope is that the police in this
27:56
Speaker 1: particular community worked this case very very carefully. They collected
28:01
Speaker 1: every bit of this evidence. So whenever this guy does
28:03
Speaker 1: in fact make it back to the United States, which
28:06
Speaker 1: I think is gonna take a while. Um that they
28:09
Speaker 1: are able to present this thing in court. Bring all
28:12
Speaker 1: this evidence forward, because it's gonna be critical in telling
28:15
Speaker 1: the story about this gentleman. Well, you may wonder did
28:17
Speaker 1: the wife know about all the child? Month station will
28:21
Speaker 1: take this into account. Hires met his very young teen bride,
28:26
Speaker 1: Lamelia Rojo, also known as Mila, during a cruise to Miami.
28:32
Speaker 1: He was twenty two, She had just turned fifteen and
28:34
Speaker 1: was a native of Brazil. She was shy, she was skinny.
28:39
Speaker 1: She had been on a vacation with friends. Now hires
28:43
Speaker 1: brother said Hires would visit Brazil and make nightly phone
28:47
Speaker 1: calls to the little girl. Mila and Mila's sister, Alessandro,
28:52
Speaker 1: says their father opposed their quote love because of the
28:57
Speaker 1: age difference. He begged her not to do it, but
29:00
Speaker 1: finally relented. She his wife, believed it was a love
29:05
Speaker 1: story and apparently died believing that did she know or
29:11
Speaker 1: did she not know? We will never find out because
29:14
Speaker 1: she was murdered and he took off listen. September, Live
29:20
Speaker 1: five News got a Facebook message along with an article
29:22
Speaker 1: that stated a woman recognized Highest from a wanted poster.
29:26
Speaker 1: She said he was a former English teacher in Shanghai.
29:29
Speaker 1: Spokesman for the U. S. Marshal Service told us the
29:31
Speaker 1: agency is aware of the information that they are fully
29:34
Speaker 1: engaged with the international partners about the highest case. Ours
29:37
Speaker 1: was seeing our surveillance video with drawing hundreds of dollars
29:40
Speaker 1: in cash at a Colin and County convenience store a
29:42
Speaker 1: t M. His case was featured several times in the
29:45
Speaker 1: show America's Most Wanted Hires. Carl was found in June
29:48
Speaker 1: two thousand and five in Laredo, Texas, near the border
29:50
Speaker 1: with Mexico. That is from our friends at w c
29:54
Speaker 1: SCTV reporter reporter Harv Jacobs joining me right now, Yearld McCullum,
30:00
Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, Joseph Scott Morgan, Kathleen Murphy, and from the
30:04
Speaker 1: state newspaper Travis Bland, So, Travis, how did he get
30:09
Speaker 1: out of the country after murdering his wife and molesting
30:12
Speaker 1: a string of little girls and managed to stay on
30:15
Speaker 1: the lamp this long? Well? I heard from one source
30:18
Speaker 1: in China that told me they were familiar with Hires
30:21
Speaker 1: that one of the odd rumors about him in China
30:24
Speaker 1: was that he had a Mexican passport that that they
30:27
Speaker 1: said would be unusual. That's unconfirmed, like many things, but
30:31
Speaker 1: that is what I've heard from one source. So he
30:32
Speaker 1: had a Mexican passport. But can you track as best
30:37
Speaker 1: as you can what happened after he left his home
30:41
Speaker 1: that day after murdering his wife, coincidentally the day he
30:44
Speaker 1: was supposed to report to court on child molestation. Yeah,
30:48
Speaker 1: as best we can tell from evidence and what investor
30:51
Speaker 1: vaders have said, he did. He was seen at the
30:53
Speaker 1: scene his home right around the time of the murder
30:57
Speaker 1: and did go to a t M and draw money.
31:00
Speaker 1: Then he went on the run. From what we can tell,
31:03
Speaker 1: there were spottings of him in states like Colorado and
31:06
Speaker 1: Michigan and even Toronto. But the last place that the
31:09
Speaker 1: investigators that put him was a town near the border
31:11
Speaker 1: of Mexico where they found the truck that he was driving.
31:15
Speaker 1: So Sheryl will call him from Mexico. How does he
31:17
Speaker 1: end up in Shanghai? Well, Nancy, I'll tell you what
31:20
Speaker 1: I think. There's lots of places that you know are
31:22
Speaker 1: not going to extra like you back to the United States.
31:25
Speaker 1: I believe he picked Turna because of their human trafficking market.
31:30
Speaker 1: They will absolutely allow you to have sex with young children.
31:33
Speaker 1: You know what, how Cheryl does that just roll off
31:35
Speaker 1: your tongue like that. I mean, you just say it
31:38
Speaker 1: without even pausing. But if he here's the deal. We're
31:40
Speaker 1: at a point with this guy. He is what he
31:43
Speaker 1: is what he is. He is a sexual predator that
31:48
Speaker 1: has a preference. He could have gone to believes he
31:51
Speaker 1: could have gone to Morocco, some fabulous, beautiful places. He
31:55
Speaker 1: chooses the place where he can get what he won't legally.
32:01
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna tell you something. There's other victims there. Oh, oh, definitely.
32:06
Speaker 1: Of course, an American court will probably never hear from
32:09
Speaker 1: those victims because they're in another country, and to bring
32:12
Speaker 1: them in a similar transactions, uh, cops would have to
32:15
Speaker 1: go there and track them down and bring them here.
32:18
Speaker 1: Not gonna happen. We know that Hires allegedly shoots his
32:22
Speaker 1: then twenty four year old Brazilian wife in the back
32:26
Speaker 1: of the head at close range that morning as she slept.
32:31
Speaker 1: The evidence will be found in the bed and most
32:34
Speaker 1: likely sear marks or burn marks from a close range
32:39
Speaker 1: firing on her scalp. It looks like um, the skin
32:44
Speaker 1: has been burned. Now hires own mother, Linda goes to
32:49
Speaker 1: their home after hires, his lawyer calls her looking for him,
32:55
Speaker 1: but she couldn't stand to open the master bedroom door
32:58
Speaker 1: and ask for a neighbor's hell. She must have had
33:01
Speaker 1: some sort of intuition. A neighbor went in and discovered
33:05
Speaker 1: the wife, Mila dead. That was in the afternoon. We
33:11
Speaker 1: know this. We know he was last seening around two
33:13
Speaker 1: o'clock that day, driving off in Mila's read two thousand
33:17
Speaker 1: five Chevy of Ajo. It was found three months later
33:22
Speaker 1: in the Mexican border town of Laredo, Texas. And that
33:27
Speaker 1: is why we believe he first went to Mexico. Now,
33:30
Speaker 1: days after he was spotted on surveillance cameras withdrawing lots
33:35
Speaker 1: of money from a T M S at a Colton
33:38
Speaker 1: County convenience store about fifty miles from his home. What
33:43
Speaker 1: happened next years pass cops chased down reports of possible
33:47
Speaker 1: sightings and places like Colorado Springs, Toronto. As you heard,
33:53
Speaker 1: he was on America's Most Wanted, clearly leading a double life. Now.
33:59
Speaker 1: Dennis Usco with Deputy U. S. Marshal, said that he
34:03
Speaker 1: was in strip clubs visiting prostitutes. In fact, there are
34:07
Speaker 1: allegations he may have even dated other girls in high school.
34:12
Speaker 1: He's six ft three, two pounds, blue eyes, blonde hair,
34:16
Speaker 1: with eleven years of police experience. He's trained in karate
34:23
Speaker 1: and other martial arts and is obsessed with obtaining a
34:28
Speaker 1: high level of fitness now. He speaks in a very
34:32
Speaker 1: clearly high pitched Southern accent. He loves basketball, plays piano.
34:39
Speaker 1: Those are some of the things we know about him.
34:42
Speaker 1: So how will those things help us find him? Cheryl McCollum.
34:47
Speaker 1: He won't stop his habit again. He's working out somewhere.
34:52
Speaker 1: He's developing even more on his martial art ability um, somewhere,
34:57
Speaker 1: he's practicing, I'm telling you. And the reason you keep
35:00
Speaker 1: asking why these klady people, why was this with militation
35:05
Speaker 1: or whatever. They legitimately learned to control people without a
35:11
Speaker 1: whole lot of movements. They learn how to grab the
35:14
Speaker 1: rest and hold you and subdue their victims without punching,
35:18
Speaker 1: without much aggression. So again, he could walk down the
35:21
Speaker 1: hall and have control with somebody, and it just looks
35:24
Speaker 1: like he's walking with someone to Travis Bland, reporter joining
35:27
Speaker 1: us from the state newspaper They're are reports he has
35:31
Speaker 1: been captured, but authorities will not confirm that for us.
35:35
Speaker 1: What do you know, Yeah, I have sources in China
35:37
Speaker 1: tell me that they know of him and they've heard
35:40
Speaker 1: that he is captured. The U. S. Marshal Service and
35:44
Speaker 1: local law enforcements here in South Carolina are not confirming that.
35:47
Speaker 1: They're saying that they know of reports of his capture,
35:50
Speaker 1: but that he hasn't They haven't confirmed his capture yet,
35:54
Speaker 1: and of the U. S. Marshal Service says they're working
35:56
Speaker 1: with their international partners on the case. What we know
36:01
Speaker 1: is that a spokesperson from the U. S. Martial Service
36:03
Speaker 1: says he's in custody in China, but we can't get
36:08
Speaker 1: confirmation whether that's true or not. So, Kathleen Murphy family lawyer,
36:15
Speaker 1: If he is in custody in China, what happens now, Well,
36:19
Speaker 1: that will go through the process of potentially bringing him
36:22
Speaker 1: back to the United States to face these charges. And
36:26
Speaker 1: I don't know what the process will be in China,
36:29
Speaker 1: but I do expect that he is going to answer
36:31
Speaker 1: to these charges at some point. I've researched it and
36:34
Speaker 1: have discovered that China does not have an extradition treaty
36:41
Speaker 1: with the US, So this is going to be a
36:45
Speaker 1: legal nightmare. It would seem to me to you, Cheryl McCollum,
36:50
Speaker 1: that China can't wait to get rid of and can't
36:52
Speaker 1: get rid of him fast enough, that he's allegedly been
36:54
Speaker 1: molesting girls there. It maybe Nancy, but they also may
36:58
Speaker 1: want to keep him there and force him to answer
37:00
Speaker 1: to those allegations and not just let him leave. Those
37:03
Speaker 1: victims deserve justice and for him to be sentenced there
37:06
Speaker 1: as well. Well this I know. There aren't many families
37:10
Speaker 1: anxiously awaiting Daniel Hires return to the u S, specifically
37:14
Speaker 1: the Brazilian family of his child bride. Take a listen
37:18
Speaker 1: to Karen Nicks. When Mila found out that there were
37:22
Speaker 1: allegations for m ludact on a minor against him, she
37:27
Speaker 1: supported her husband. She didn't want to believe it. Mila
37:30
Speaker 1: had no idea what Dan had in store, that her
37:34
Speaker 1: ultimate fate would be her being murdered by her husband
37:39
Speaker 1: and his darkest hour she supported him, and in her
37:42
Speaker 1: darkest hour he killed her. Daniel Hires, you can run,
37:46
Speaker 1: but you can't hide. The long arm of the law
37:50
Speaker 1: is coming after you, buddy. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing
37:54
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,