Latest / REL Freedom Podcast / Tom Dunkel - Wins, Wipeouts, and Million Dollar Lessons

Transcript

Tom Dunkel - Wins, Wipeouts, and Million Dollar Lessons · REL Freedom Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was in 2018 when we kind of broke out as a distress debt company and really had you know started making some money.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: We had you know a few good years along the way, but people were like, wow, you know, you guys just kind of came on the scene.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, we've been at this eight years.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like an eight-year overnight success story.
• 0:20
  Mike Swenson: Welcome to the Real Freedom Show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate.
• 0:27
  Mike Swenson: I'm your host, Mike Swenson.
• 0:29
  Mike Swenson: Let's get some real freedom together.
• 0:39
  Mike Swenson: Hello, everybody.
• 0:40
  Mike Swenson: Welcome to another episode of Real Freedom Real Estate Leverage Freedom, where we talk about different ways that people build time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate.
• 0:49
  Mike Swenson: I'm your host, Mike Swenson.
• 0:50
  Mike Swenson: If you want to get started on your real estate investing journey, check out our website freedom throughrealestate.com.
• 0:57
  Mike Swenson: We put all of our interviews, articles, guides just to be able to help you guys make some great decisions and take action and move forward in your real estate investing journey.
• 1:06
  Mike Swenson: And today we've got an amazing guest here.
• 1:09
  Mike Swenson: Super excited.
• 1:09
  Mike Swenson: We've got Tom Dunkel, battle-tested entrepreneur, 30 years experience, built two eight-figure companies, had some non-successful ones, which we'll also touch on, and raised over$50 million in capital.
• 1:21
  Mike Swenson: You're managing director of Eagle Capital Investments and span multifamily mobile home park self-storage private lending offices, you name it.
• 1:30
  Mike Swenson: You've done it.
• 1:31
  Mike Swenson: So excited to hear from you.
• 1:32
  Mike Swenson: Also, I should mention best selling the author of the book Wealth Builders Playbook.
• 1:37
  Mike Swenson: So Tom, excited to sit at your feet and learn from you today and hear more about your story.
• 1:42
  Mike Swenson: So thanks so much for being on.
• 1:43
  Mike Swenson: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, Mike.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to be with you and all the listeners.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you're doing for everybody.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think providing this kind of education is uh is super great.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So good on you, man.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Good on you.
• 1:54
  Mike Swenson: Take us back to the beginning a little bit.
• 1:55
  Mike Swenson: You know, I love to hear from people kind of how did you get in it?
• 1:58
  Mike Swenson: Why did you get into it?
• 1:59
  Mike Swenson: And we'll go from there.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, got out of business school and um and went into uh mergers and acquisitions in the aerospace industry.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, started out like doing deals.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: These were you know bigger deals, you know.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were buying companies for you know 10, 50.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think our biggest deal is 120 million acquisition.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was surrounded by some amazing people and so really got a um, you know, real solid foundation for you know doing deals, you know, putting the projections together.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was my role as a financial analyst.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was you know putting the projections together, putting the models together, and so we could take that information to the banks and to the private equity firms so we could raise the capital to get the deal done.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so I learned those skills very early on in my career and then uh kind of went from there and uh bounced around to a couple other companies that were growing through acquisition, kind of doing the same thing uh until 2006, uh when I got fired for my uh corporate uh job, my corporate finance job at a at a publicly traded company that probably everyone's heard of.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, so that was kind of the decision point for me.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, I've I've been in corporate America now for, you know, I think it was like 11 years at the time.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I've had some successes, I've had some great experiences, had some not so great experiences, but I'd always want to do something on my own.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so at that point, it was it was decision time, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I've a wife and a four-year-old and a two-year-old at home.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was on a pretty good trajectory, you know, with the salary and the stock options and the bonuses and all that, you know, go good golden handcuff stuff.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, but I had this desire to want to go do something on my own.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so you know, one day I'm at an interview uh with a company, because I was looking, I was still looking at maybe doing staying in the corporate world, but I was also looking at some entrepreneurial things.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm at this interview with this amazing company, super nice guy, and I literally heard this little voice in the back of my head like, don't do it, man.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is your opportunity to go and do something entrepreneurial.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I said thank you to the guy, and he, you know, he really wanted to hire me for this amazing job.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, I can't do it.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh, so I went into into real estate.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh started out doing wholesaling and fixing and flipping and picked up some rental properties along the way.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then of course that was 2006, Mike, when I started that.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the next few years, you know, 2007, 2008, you know, things started getting very challenging.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, even though I had this great background, you know, putting deals together, the great education, all that cool stuff.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, here I was trying to, you know, get my entrepreneurial legs under me, you know, build a team, be the leader, um, you know, learn something new.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because up to that point, the only house I had ever bought was the one that I lived in.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, it was it was definitely challenging, challenging times as the market started to crash and everything.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So learned some hard, expensive lessons uh those first few years, but I was determined to stick it out.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was around about that time that I started learning about distressed mortgage debt and uh connected with uh my partner Joe Downs.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've been business partners now uh going on 16 years, um, and uh just really saw something in the distressed mortgage debt business that I thought was interesting given my background in finance and my interest in real estate.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we gave that a run and um glad to report, you know, it's it's still a growing business today.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: We've done probably about 70 million dollars of revenue in that business over the past 16 years, give or take.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's that success has allowed us to try some other things.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we've we were partners in a title company, that didn't work out.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: We tried hard money lending, uh, that didn't work out.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then we tried it again later and failed at it again.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but Brown, you know, the uh 2018, 17, 18, somewhere in there, we started learning about self-storage and thought it would be a really good um balance for the distressed mortgage debt business um because it was a lot steadier.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: The distressed mortgage debt business is great, but it's kind of up and down and a little unpredictable uh storage.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, okay, this is checking a lot of boxes in terms of predictability, cash flow, you know, tax advantages, you know, real estate, all that good stuff, uh growth potential.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so we built a company um it called Belrose Storage Group, and we bought uh about$55 uh million dollars worth of storage from like 2019 uh through today.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so that's kind of what I've been up to.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and about uh, you know, as we started building the storage company, I let my partners know, like, hey, um, you know, I'll I'll be the chief investment officer, I'll raise the capital.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, in a few years, once we get things up and running, I'm gonna wanna peel off.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'm I'm the old guy on our team.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm looking to, you know, work a little less, play a little more golf, spend a little more time at the beach, spend a little more time with my family, that sort of thing.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we did made that transition in 2024.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the last year or so, I've been uh building uh Eagle Capital Investments, which is my fund of funds business, where basically I'm inviting uh my investor partners that I've worked with over the years to tag along with me and take advantage of my experience, my financial analysis uh skills, and and my network of operators to help them put money to work in in alternative investment.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's the story of the last, you know, 30 years or so.
• 7:51
  Mike Swenson: No, that's great.
• 7:51
  Mike Swenson: It's you know, you you see similar themes, and and some of the stuff that I talk about on the podcast from people is, you know, it's it's important to start, right?
• 8:00
  Mike Swenson: You don't know where the finish line's gonna go, you don't know where the the fork in the road or the winding path's gonna go, but you got to start somewhere and get some experience to find out what you like, what you don't like, and then what works well, what the market bears, because there are changes in the market outside of your control, and you might have to adapt and adjust.
• 8:16
  Mike Swenson: Well, you take your knowledge and experience and problem-solving skills and twist and turn with with where the market goes and make some different decisions.
• 8:25
  Mike Swenson: And so your story certainly follows that, right?
• 8:28
  Mike Swenson: And uh had you not gotten into it and stayed at corporate America, well, that's where you would be.
• 8:33
  Mike Swenson: And um, you know, it may have worked out well, may not have worked out well, but at least you're more in control of your future now, and you've built up some good relationships, you've built up some some relationships with investors that now you can decide, you know, what are what are great opportunities to place capital in.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you touched on something really good there, Mike, which is that you know, at the time when I did make the decision to go the entrepreneurial route, it was very scary.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it was it also felt very natural to me.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess everyone's wired differently.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm sure you know some people might just revert back to corporate and just you know kind of ride that out.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: But for whatever reason, uh I guess I'm wired a little different and uh decided to go the entrepreneurial route.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been anything but a straight line.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's certainly been ups and downs and big challenges and close calls, uh, but also some great successes.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh, you know, wouldn't change wouldn't change it for the world.
• 9:28
  Mike Swenson: Well, the common theme between us is we both pick great times to go off on our own because for you it was 2006, 2007.
• 9:36
  Mike Swenson: My first day officially on my own was the first day of COVID shutdowns.
• 9:40
  Mike Swenson: So uh in 2020.
• 9:41
  Mike Swenson: So, you know, hey, when you when you make that entrepreneurial journey, you've gotta, you know, you've got that pit in your gut and you've gotta figure out a way to make it work.
• 9:49
  Mike Swenson: And so it's difficult, right?
• 9:51
  Mike Swenson: Um, there's a lot of good stuff that happens, but you have to make a lot of challenging and stressful decisions, and it's not easy, but at least you're more in control of your own destiny.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because for so many years, I was just at the whim of the corporate, you know, beings, you know, like the the the bosses and the budgets and all that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, at that point when I left uh corporate America, it was the third time in four years that I had been either laid off or displaced one way or another.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, I've had enough of this.
• 10:22
  Mike Swenson: So talk a little bit about getting into some of these different asset classes.
• 10:26
  Mike Swenson: So you've you've got some experience in a few different areas, some good, some bad.
• 10:30
  Mike Swenson: But for people that are sitting there trying to decide, you know, kind of like how do I get started, or maybe what asset class do I choose?
• 10:37
  Mike Swenson: You know, what are maybe some tips or some thoughts that you have on how would you pursue things based on what you've done?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great, great question.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh this is something I've actually done a big presentation on stage about before.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll try, I'll try to condense it down.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, really, Mike, in my in my mind, it boils down to three things.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um one is uh surrounding yourself with the right people.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like when I was leaving the corporate world and going into the entrepreneurial world, I was going to like as many meetup groups as I could get to.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I'm here in the Philadelphia area, so there were a bunch of different real estate investor meetup groups going on.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So probably, you know, at least two, three nights a week, I feel like I was out, you know, going to one of those events, talking to people, learning, you know, what are they working on, what's what are they having success with, what's not working, you know, those kinds of things.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, you know, doing the breakfasts and the lunches and just trying to get as much knowledge as I could and find the the people who you know we could we could really form a relationship and you know uh share some information and and and so I thought finding those people was was super important.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing is uh is finding a niche, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So like I like I mentioned, we we failed in the hard money lending business twice uh because uh in looking at it uh and you know 2020 hindsight, you know, the Philadelphia market for rehabs and stuff is super competitive, right?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we were going into this market, um, you know, without you know, we didn't have like a huge marketing engine behind us.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we had we figured we could kind of lean on our network to, you know, go meet with the contractors, you know, and make loans to them.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But man, that's it's like that's what everybody was doing.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And some people had, you know, big corporate backing and they were, you know, you know, doing the marketing and all that stuff.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was very bloody.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I guess there's uh I haven't read the book, but I guess there's a book out there about red oceans versus blue oceans.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like all this red ocean, very competitive, blood in the water kind of stuff.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so we just got we just got crushed and and we weren't able to really grow that business the way the way that we had hoped.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: But compare that to distressed mortgage debt, and specifically we do, we're we focus on residential second liens.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you know, it's it gets very nichey and which keeps a lot of the competition away because oh, why would you buy a distressed second mortgage?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, aren't you aren't you behind the first and aren't you gonna get wiped out and all this and blah, blah, blah?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, all and all that's true, but we have a saying at our company, which is you know, there's no such thing as bad loans, they're just bad prices, right?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're buying these loans at such discounts that if we do get wiped, yeah, we're gonna lose some money, but we're also gonna have huge upside on the others.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that throw out our big SAT word for the day, that asymmetric kind of uh curve is what we're looking for in any kind of investing, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Asymmetric meaning there's a minimal, minimized kind of downside, but a big upside.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we found in the niche of distressed mortgage debt.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then also in storage, uh self-storage, you know, it's become more popular, but it's still kind of a niche asset class.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we we like that as well.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last thing is the third thing is you gotta get smart, you got to go deep, you got to find the resources, you gotta read the books, you have to become like the smartest person in the country in whatever that niche is that you're that you're trying to go into.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And a funny story, we when Joe and I were starting our distressed mortgage debt business, we were, like I said, we were going around talking to different people.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we met with this guy who kind of proclaimed himself to be, you know, one of the top real estate attorneys in all of Philadelphia.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we met this guy, and man, he he thought we were the dumbest guys ever.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he was really talking down our idea of buying these uh pools of second mortgages, and uh because he knew this and he knew that, and blah, blah, blah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, unless you have that specific knowledge for that specific asset class, you know, you're gonna make, you know, you might not make the best decisions.
• 14:48
  Mike Swenson: Yeah, and I think it's good for for people to know too that this this stuff takes time, right?
• 14:52
  Mike Swenson: Your your first year working on that company or your first year doing self-storage, right?
• 14:58
  Mike Swenson: It it takes time.
• 15:00
  Mike Swenson: And so you may come from a corporate background or or somewhere else where you've had five or ten years to know and understand things and get comfortable and make informed decisions, and then you come into real estate and you're choosing something that you haven't done before, you're still learning about, and it takes time.
• 15:16
  Mike Swenson: So you have to give yourself grace.
• 15:18
  Mike Swenson: And in a lot of ways, right, it's just keeping one foot forward instead of quitting.
• 15:24
  Mike Swenson: Because if you quit, then you fail, right?
• 15:26
  Mike Swenson: If you don't quit, you're never gonna fail for a big fail because you're just applying those lessons and and taking one step forward.
• 15:34
  Mike Swenson: And eventually you'll put the pieces together and it'll come together for you.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I remember uh it was in 2018 when we kind of broke out as a distress debt company and and really had you know started making some money.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: We had, you know, a few good years along the way, but people were like, wow, you know, you guys just kind of came on the scene.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, we've been at this eight years.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like an eight-year overnight success story.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, no, no, you guys didn't see the you know the late night conference calls after putting the kids to bed and the and the uh you know scraping together the bucks to to buy a few loans here and there.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's uh definitely takes some time.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 16:13
  Mike Swenson: Yeah, and that's the part that people don't see, you know, and and it's the struggle because, like you said, it's you've put in the work, you've done those repetitions to get to that curve that you've talked about.
• 16:24
  Mike Swenson: But yeah, nobody's gonna see that and and realize how tough it is.
• 16:28
  Mike Swenson: Maybe you have the decisions to throw in the towel, am I doing the right thing, or should I go back to doing something else?
• 16:33
  Mike Swenson: And it's like, no, you stick with it, but then when the success happens, yeah, then you're an overnight success story.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: One other one other thing uh I think is important to add on to this part of the discussion is when you when you do go for that niche and you become the smartest person in that niche.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at first it's kind of scary to say no to deals, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, say no to that one, say no to that one, you're like, oh man, but you know, what how how am I gonna make money, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're an operator, right, you're probably making acquisition fees or whatever.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but you need to have that discipline to say no to the deals that don't fit in your niche.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And but what ends up happening is when you do find that deal and you go out to raise the capital from the investors, you're gonna blow the investors away with your level of knowledge within that niche.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's gonna make your life a lot easier on the capital raising end of things and the operational end of things because you're gonna know that asset class uh so well.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you go to meet with those investors, you do your webinar or whatever, that's gonna come through that you really know that space and you're the guy to invest with.
• 17:41
  Mike Swenson: So pick, you know, picking an asset class, you'd mentioned, you know, self-storage.
• 17:45
  Mike Swenson: I like to highlight with people that spot where it's like you're on the sidelines and then you make that jump to get into the game.
• 17:51
  Mike Swenson: Think back, like for you, kind of finding that first deal you decided to move forward with, or maybe, you know, do kind of a little bit more on your own versus partnering with others.
• 18:00
  Mike Swenson: Talk about just kind of that spot where you're like, okay, I've got to trust all the work that I've put in and we're gonna now move forward and do this thing versus analyzing 10 more deals and decide if it's the right one.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a great question.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's such a big difference uh between our distressed debt business and the self-storage business.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we were doing, when we started out the distressed debt business, like Joe and I scraped together$12,000 to buy six loans.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was like our first deal, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we just kind of were able to, you know, take that leap of faith, just the two of us, you know, kind of learning uh kind of as we were going.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I we used to call it, you know, putting the airplane together while it's in the air, kind of thing.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then by the time we got into the, you know, fast forward, you know, 14, 15 years, we get into the self-storage business, um, we were able to approach that differently because we had the luxury of time.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: We had the luxury of having capital coming in from our business to uh be able to take a more disciplined approach.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what we did is um we start, we really started educating ourselves, like I mentioned in like 2017, 2018, we were going to all the conferences, we're reading the books, listening to the podcast, doing all that, you know, talking to the brokers, talking to the financing sources.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then 20 uh we joined a mastermind group, um, so we could get, you know, really be shoulder to shoulder with operators who were doing what we uh wanted to be doing.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so we did all that before we even um uh before we even bought our first facility.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because and what was important was through that process, we realized like, hey, you know, Joe's good at this and that, and I'm good at this and that, but we had some gaps in what what we were missing some key skills.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so through that process and through that networking and belonging to that mastermind group, we were able to bring on a third person, Tim Kane.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: He had experience that complemented my experience and Joe's experience.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that, you know, rounding out the team, having that education, then allowed us to go and acquire our first facility in 2019.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: After, and you know, we were definitely definitely went through that phase.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people do, where you're analyzing deals and you make these low ball offers, and you're like, please don't take it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't take it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you want to make offers because you want to get in the game.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so it wasn't until we had that confidence uh in 2019 that we were able to have like a legit discussion with the broker, put together a legit plan and make a legit offer, and we were able to take down that facility and and do what we said we were gonna do.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: We we turned turned around the operations and made a made a nice profit on that one.
• 20:41
  Mike Swenson: No, I remember that too.
• 20:43
  Mike Swenson: Our first apartment building, it was like, you know, we had come to an agreement and we found it through a wholesaler, and and I was like, wow, this one really makes sense compared to everything else I've seen.
• 20:52
  Mike Swenson: And so I talked to somebody and she's like, Well, Mike, now you get it under contract and then go find the money.
• 20:56
  Mike Swenson: And I was like, What?
• 20:57
  Mike Swenson: How does that work?
• 20:58
  Mike Swenson: Because I was so used to in residential real estate as a as an agent, you've got to have everything ready and polished.
• 21:05
  Mike Swenson: So when you make your offer, you put yourself in the driver's seat or the best offer out there.
• 21:10
  Mike Swenson: And now it's like, wait, we get it under contract, then we figure everything out.
• 21:14
  Mike Swenson: Like that's was it was a tough brain shift to be able to figure out how to do that.
• 21:19
  Mike Swenson: But now you realize that's that's how it's done.
• 21:21
  Mike Swenson: So it is.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and when we when we were ramping up Bellrose Storage Group, we were we had you know some pretty lofty goals to scale that.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: We actually organized the company so that Joe was looking at he was our acquisitions guy.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So he's working with the brokers, he's finding the deals, he's kind of doing the initial underwriting.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: All I did all day, every day, whether we had a deal or we didn't, was raise capital.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always, you know, doing the webinars, talking to the investors, you know, so that when a deal did come along, we we had already had those talks with investors.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we said, Hey, remember how we told you we were going and looking for these types of deals?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: In this niche and how smart we are in that niche and our strategy.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, guess what?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: We found a property that fits what we're looking to do, and we can execute our strategy on that.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: That you already have learned about from our prior discussion, so that it makes it easy for that investor to say, okay, cool.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: You you're doing what you said you were going to do.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Here's 100 grand.
• 22:18
  Mike Swenson: So fast forward to today, you've got eagle capital investments.
• 22:22
  Mike Swenson: Talk a little bit about what you're doing now and how you're looking to find great properties to pair with your investors.
• 22:28
  Mike Swenson: Or great opportunities, I should say, not necessarily properties, but yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, throughout my journey, and I've been, it's been 20 years since I got booted from Corporate America.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So along the way, you know, I've been involved in you know different investor, you know, meetup groups and masterminds and this and that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some are local, some are national.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've gotten to know a lot of amazing operators uh that are in these different asset classes, you know, multifamily, mobile home parks, medical offices, and and et cetera, and of course self-storage.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: So um Eagle Capital Investments is basically me looking to place my own capital.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I find an opportunity with one of these operators who I've come to know, like and trust, uh, because I've I've met them, I've probably broken bread with them, uh, may have even had a uh bourbon or two with them and gotten to know them and their team and their approach and their track record and all those things.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now it's when I'm looking to place capital and they have a deal, we already have that relationship set up.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I already know that they're they're they're good people, they're gonna do what they say they're gonna do.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is such a huge hurdle to get over.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I find too many investors make the mistake of not really getting to know the sponsor that well.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they go right to the deal.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, I want I want to invest in an apartment.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they start looking at an apartment deal and say, well, okay, well, you got to back up.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Start talking to the sponsor first.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um fact that it's a we've actually made it into a whole methodology um over the years, and we call it we call it the safe investing method, S-A-F-E.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so S stands for sponsor.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to ask the sponsor a ton of questions.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you're getting ready to hand over 50 or 100 grand to that person, that gives you the the right, the it gives you the permission to ask hard questions.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, have you ever had a foreclosure?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever had a bankruptcy?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's do a background check.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about your you know successes, tell me about your failures, you know, tell me about your team, all those kinds of things.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then A is for asset.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you start getting into, okay, it's uh it's a multifamily property in Phoenix.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how old is it?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: How many units?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's occupancy like?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: What's the market like?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening in that market?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are there come are there companies coming in and investing in that area, or is it kind of a you know, one factory town where you know that factory uh goes out of business and the whole town goes out of business, right?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to ask all those questions about the asset.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: F is for financials.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: You go through the financial projections.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are they realistic?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Has the sponsor delivered on these kinds of projections in the past?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are the tax implications?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those kinds of questions.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then E is for exit.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get out of this thing?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you can go to schwab.com and click, click, click and sell your position in a Belrose storage group deal.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't work that way.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So as an investor, you need to understand that your capital is going to be tied up for a period of time, and you need to understand what needs to happen for you to get your money back.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Are they selling the property?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are they refinancing the property?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, and you need to understand like how all of that works exactly, and then how you get repaid and get your get your return.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the I'm I've built all that framework over the 20 years, and so basically my investor network uh is able to kind of piggyback on that experience of of knowing how to do the due diligence and find the right operators to do business with and uh and that way they can they can jump in alongside me.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and uh I think that's a great win-win situation.
• 26:07
  Mike Swenson: Are you looking to get started or scale in real estate investing but don't know your next step?
• 26:12
  Mike Swenson: Are you overwhelmed thinking about finding deals, analyzing deals, doing due diligence, and managing properties on top of it?
• 26:18
  Mike Swenson: Go ahead and push the easy button and invest with us.
• 26:22
  Mike Swenson: Real estate investing is what we do full time.
• 26:24
  Mike Swenson: We've done dozens of deals with hundreds of doors.
• 26:26
  Mike Swenson: We have the knowledge and experience to handpick the best deals that most investors can't find.
• 26:31
  Mike Swenson: We've at large off-market deals all the time where you can hopefully find returns and economies of scale that you just can't find on your own.
• 26:38
  Mike Swenson: The best thing is it's 100% passive to you for less capital than you put down trying to acquire a property on your own.
• 26:44
  Mike Swenson: Don't let this year go by where you don't make the leap, add to your portfolio, or you just sit in analysis by paralysis.
• 26:52
  Mike Swenson: To find out more, visit freedom throughrealestate.com and click on invest.
• 26:56
  Mike Swenson: You can book a call and learn more there.
• 26:58
  Mike Swenson: So get to scaling your portfolio now with us by your side.
• 27:02
  Mike Swenson: That's freedomthroughrealestate.com and click on invest.
• 27:05
  Mike Swenson: How does that work?
• 27:06
  Mike Swenson: Like I'm curious to hear from somebody, you know, let's say, and I don't know if this is even true or not for you, but like somebody local that you built a local, you know, personal connection with, maybe they invested in one of your self-storage deals that you were kind of more in charge of, and then all of a sudden you flip over to a different asset class, and that asset is in Arizona or something like that, completely different.
• 27:27
  Mike Swenson: For that investor, they know you for you because you're local and you did something that you were heavily involved in.
• 27:33
  Mike Swenson: Now you're you have that relationship with a sponsor, but it's an asset class in a state that's nowhere near you.
• 27:39
  Mike Swenson: Would love to kind of hear like, kind of, how do you talk through that with somebody?
• 27:42
  Mike Swenson: And I'm sure the answer comes down to it's it's you and the trust you've built, but curious to kind of hear like how you talk through that with somebody who maybe it is their first time in a new asset class they're not familiar with in a state they're not familiar with.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh it it is uh it is um something that I had to work through because for uh five years I was the storage guy, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing podcasts, I was going to conferences, I was on stage, I was, you know, I was the guy known, you know, as the chief investment officer of Belrose Storage Group.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So storage, storage, storage.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so there's definitely um a bit of a transition to talking to people about different asset classes.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was like the geographic part wasn't really much of a hurdle because our self-storage facilities range from New York State down to Florida.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we even did one out in uh White Bear Lake, Minnesota.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So suburb next door to me.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So right, right down the street.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, we have an RV uh storage facility there.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that geographic part wasn't so tough.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was it was definitely different talking to people about you know multifamily versus self-storage or mobile homes or et cetera.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's just a matter of um, you know, you you you hit the nail on the head with the whole trust thing, right?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: The whole reason we're having the conversation is because they trust me from our past interactions.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and and so that's why I think it's important what I said earlier about I invest in every deal personally with Eagle Capital Investments.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, so that's that helps those investors kind of get over that hump as well.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, I'm a lot of people have have opted out, have opted to not because it's it's early in the in the history of of Eagle.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so as I continue to build my track record in these different asset classes, I'm sure I'll have more people come on board.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it is a little bit of a restart and some people who have have fallen off.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, they'll they'll probably come back at some point after I show a little success here or there.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that that speaks the biggest, you know, loudest voice is what's your track record?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the trust gets me in the door to have the conversation, but it's the track record that helps to kind of seal that deal.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So so stay tuned.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be a little bit of a learning period.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: But but you know, I I certainly have investors who have said, hey, you know what, you're I you haven't done me wrong in the past.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm willing to take a step forward on this one, especially because you're putting up your own money, and uh, you know, we'll go forward from there.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So but but some people have dropped off, some people have stuck around.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the way it's just the way the world works, I guess.
• 30:25
  Mike Swenson: And you can't fault people for making that decision because it is a lot of money, it is something that they're not familiar with.
• 30:31
  Mike Swenson: And for me, I look at it as if they're like, hey, not this one, but keep me informed of the next deal.
• 30:37
  Mike Swenson: Great.
• 30:38
  Mike Swenson: That's I'm perfectly fine with that.
• 30:40
  Mike Swenson: That's your out.
• 30:41
  Mike Swenson: That's my hey, you don't want to, you know, I I I still keep you on the list in the future.
• 30:46
  Mike Swenson: And then it probably just means prove it a little bit more, right?
• 30:49
  Mike Swenson: Build that track record.
• 30:50
  Mike Swenson: You know, I talk about our deals are you know, still resume builders in a lot of ways because we still are building that track record.
• 30:56
  Mike Swenson: You know, it goes back to when you try to get hired for your first job and they say you don't have experience, and you say, Well, how do I get experience?
• 31:02
  Mike Swenson: By getting a job, right?
• 31:04
  Mike Swenson: It's that catch 22, and and that's where you're at with investing sometimes, too, is you've got to find a way to prove it and work with the people that are are trust you enough as you're proving it to then get to the people that want to see that backwards view of show me all your successful deals, then I'll invest with you.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like what you said there about resume builders.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's it comes down to sort of I guess marketing, if you want to put or messaging, I guess if you want to put it that way.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, like what I like to do is I'll I'll put out like something on LinkedIn or I'll send an email to my list or something about hey, this is a deal I looked at that I turned down, right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought it looked good at at the surface, but when I looked into ABC XYZ, you know, I decided it was a deal I was gonna pass on.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so because investors like to hear that too.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: They like to hear that I'm not just throwing money at every every single opportunity out there.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's that.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then as back to the track record thing, right?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: So all the operators that I'm working with, they have track records that I can piggyback on.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times what we'll do is we'll do like a joint uh webinar, right?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll be on um, you know, with my buddy Bryce, and he will um, you know, I'll I'll kind of introduce him and why I like the deal, why I like Bryce, why I like his team, and then he'll kind of take it from there and we'll do that kind of webinar where you know it's it's me showing my relationship with him and relying on him and his uh experience.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so hopefully that, you know, resonates across.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: But but sometimes it sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, resume building.
• 32:43
  Mike Swenson: Tom, thank you so much for coming on and sharing.
• 32:45
  Mike Swenson: We covered a lot of great stuff for people that want to reach out to you, learn more about you, and pick up your book as well.
• 32:50
  Mike Swenson: How can they do so?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, this has been great, buddy.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the Eagles fifth Super Bowl victory towel behind you.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think I mentioned that to you.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, I'm Tom Dunkel.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh managing principal at Eagle Capital Investments.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if if you go to investwithegal.com, you can pick up a copy of my my book here, the Wealth Builders Playbook.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in there, there's uh just it's kind of stories.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I put it sort of in story form about you know different deals that I've done, different asset classes that I'm looking at.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it talk it goes into depth on the safe method that I talked about earlier about how I approach uh due diligence on these kinds of opportunities.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's kind of fun.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a golfer, and so a lot of the stories, it's like you know, guys are out on the golf course talking about you know investing in multifamily or something.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I had some fun with it.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are you gonna do?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so anyway, if you go to investwitheagle.com, uh you can you can grab that.
• 33:47
  Mike Swenson: Awesome.
• 33:47
  Mike Swenson: Well, thank you so much, Tom.
• 33:48
  Mike Swenson: Excited to hear about your journey, and thank you so much for opening up and sharing and uh excited to see where you continue to grow.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Mike.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it, buddy.