Latest / Dadical / 12. Family Meetings and Phone Rules | Aaron Brooker

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12. Family Meetings and Phone Rules | Aaron Brooker · Dadical

• Seth Stoker: As fathers, we have a lot of things to juggle. Am I an effective provider for my family? Am I the husband I imagined I would be? Am I the type of father my kids deserve? by the way, the card needs an oil change. That hole the kids put in the wall last week needs to be repaired. And I'm pretty sure this toothache is going to become a pretty big problem if I don't just break down and go to the dentist. When do I get all of that done? And on top of that, I'm somehow supposed to prepare these tiny humans for adulthood. This job isn't for the faint of heart. That's why it was so refreshing to talk to Aaron Brooker. Aaron spent 14 years teaching middle school in Inner City, Oklahoma, where he saw the impact of fatherlessness up close. This wasn't in a study on paper in a book somewhere. This was in his real experience with real kids every day. This experience shaped how he parents his children, including introducing a cell phone contract to his children when they get a phone, weekly family meetings, and a short devotional from dad daily, and much more. Aaron taught me about being careful not to put a fence in front of a boundary. Now, what does that mean? We've all done it. You threaten a consequence that you don't really want to enforce. And so instead of enforcing it, we just give them more and more chances. and as we move the goalposts, we slowly condition them to believe that every single boundary is negotiable. The lesson? Only threaten consequences you're willing to enforce. He said he hopes his kids remember that he was thoughtful as a parent. He's a great example of Parenting on purpose. If you're a new dad, I want you to listen closely to his instruction. I've been a parent for 19 years, and I walked away with several things that I can implement today to help my family. We discussed his father's example of writing his kids letters each year at Christmas and how that impacted his approach as a father. We covered things like cell phone use, helping your kids set small, measurable goals on a weekly basis, and even why being willing to have difficult conversations with your children is one of the most important things you can do. Here's Aaron Brooker. Aaron, welcome to the Dadicle Podcast. Excited to chat with you today. Aaron Brooker: Seth, it's really good to be here. Thanks for having me. Seth Stoker: Absolutely. the reason I've been looking forward to this is because Aaron does does similar things to what I do. He creates content about fatherhood and it's something that you can tell he's very passionate about. And the reason I appreciate Aaron is because not only is he deliberate about what he teaches his kids, he's also deliberate about how. And so I'm excited to dive in with that. But before we do, why don't you introduce us to your family and your background a little bit, Aaron? Aaron Brooker: Seth, thank you. So I've lived in the Midwest in Omaha my whole life. we have three boys, ages fifteen, thirteen, and eleven, Elias, Jonas, and Ari. They're all different in their own in their own way. I've been married to my wife Laura for the last eighteen years. I was a middle school educator in the rough part of Omaha for 14 years. And then about well, before COVID, I got out of education, moved into insurance. And so Work with physicians for for different types of insurance needs. Seth Stoker: Very cool. So still in Omaha? Aaron Brooker: Still in Omaha. And I will say, you know, we kind of met each other on the algorithm introduced us to some extent, right? Seth Stoker: That's right. Aaron Brooker: Like producing content that's kind of in the similar vein. Stuff was showing up on my feed. I said, Hey Seth, I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about what you're doing. And so, that you know, we're online friends, I think is is how you say it. Seth Stoker: That's right. That's right. So such a strange world where now you can become friends with somebody without ever meeting them in person. And and but but on that note, I think that's a great place to start. Why on earth did you start creating content about this? Aaron Brooker: so I started Adadad during COVID be because I felt like my family was thriving when some of our friends were struggling. I I had tips, I had activities, I had crafts that were easy for my boys to stay busy. And the boys were little during COVID. And so the email newsletter started off with, you know, I guess it grew to a couple hundred of my friends. And To be totally honest, Seth, like I just kind of ran out of ideas to email to people. And so I paused it for a while and decided just with, you know, some AI and some video stuff, it was really easy to to get those ideas back out there. So I started back up with a channel, it's giving away as much for free as I can on the website. And we're just gonna see where it goes. It's excited. I just my goal is to build strong families and give dads tools to to succeed. Seth Stoker: You know what? I think that's awesome. And that's actually exactly why I wanted to start this podcast is so that dads can earn can learn from other dads. And so I think everybody should go give at a dad a f a follow right now and and learn from it because Aaron's putting a lot of great stuff out there. And so Aaron, talk to me a little bit about that because not every dad just has these frameworks or tools or or even you know, you you mentioned you have a phone contract. I'm sure we'll dig into that a little bit later, but Why is it that that you have these resources that other dads aren't taking the time to put together or or or may not even know where to start? Aaron Brooker: I I think that's the educator in me. If you think like how many years I spent taking information and then trying to make that easy to understand or easy to use for twelve, thirteen year olds. And so, w whether it's a book that I read or a longer video or something I see, like if I can make that digestible and get it in people's hands so it's usable and practical, that that's maybe my super talent or or ability that's just been enhanced over these years. And so Y you s y your kids get to cell phone age and then you're hitting you're getting hit with all this information about how to have good cell phone hygiene, what to do and what not to do. And so if I could just compile some of that information and make it easy for my kids, I might as well just share that with other people. Seth Stoker: Well on that note, why don't you rattle off? I'm sure we'll dig into to several deeper, but but right now, why don't you rattle off just a few of the resources that you have put together that you've shared that have been helpful for other dads? Aaron Brooker: well f free for download on at a hyphen dad dot com. I've got my cell phone contract that we use for our kids and it's got my kids' names. Like you edit the word document, you gotta change change the names. I read a book called Intentional Father that was impactful and I wrote a little guide out for my my oldest, you know, just said here's some virtues, here's some responsibilities we're growing into. I just threw that document up on the Adadad website. And then I also more recently put up some I call them legacy building ideas, but like family meetings, l letters that you can write your kids, just some frameworks to to do that. And that's all available for free right now. Seth Stoker: Awesome. So everybody should go check that out. In the meantime, you mentioned that your family was really thriving during COVID when when others were having challenges. So tell me about that. Why was your family thriving and maybe how? How do you define thriving? Aaron Brooker: We we worked hard so that my wife was at home. So so we already had like one one parent in the house. And then during COVID, you know, kind of moving two parents into the house. boundaries and expectations, I think, are are two of the most important things to help your kids succeed. And so it's important that you set boundaries you're willing to enforce. You know, I I noticed that a lot of people nag because they they actually put a fence in front of the boundary. Yeah and so I if if I'm not gonna take my Seth Stoker: What does that mean? Aaron Brooker: yeah, so if if I'm not gonna I don't really want to take my kids Nintendo away because if I take my kids' Nintendo away, my life becomes hard, right? Then I've got kids that have, you know, nothing to do or they they get into other things or whatever it might be. So I don't actually want to take my kids' Nintendo away, even though I said I'm going to. So rather than enforce the boundary I set up, I put a fence in front of it and I say, You better stop. If you do it again. Please don't do it. I've told you four times and instead of just actually executing the the punishment or or and so or the consequence. And so that's what I yeah. Seth Stoker: Okay, I heard you, I heard you talking about this on your podcast, and I love it. I I by the way, I think it's spot on. It's so much easier to put that fence around the brand the boundary so that I don't have to enforce it. But why is that problematic? Like, so what? Aaron Brooker: W what I mean, what do you mean? Like that's not how the real world's gonna operate someday. Like our kids are under our house and that's the most important time for them to understand how to how to navigate through the rules and and how to figure out where the guidelines and the borders are with consequences that are totally acceptable before they move out into the real world and have consequences that are gonna be really hard and and you know. you know, you know, end up in jail or whatever might be extreme, but that's the kind of stuff that happens is and so as the primary as a primary teacher of our children, having boundaries that actually bite is is a huge educator for for their development. Seth Stoker: Well, and without realizing it, I think parents that do put that fence in front of front of the boundary and they say, well, one more you know, one more time, one more time, they're actually training their kids that that that goalpost keeps moving, right? That they can get away with a lot more than than you originally communicated, which means they have less respect for the boundaries that you've put in place. And so I I actually I've never heard it put that way, putting a fence around the boundary, but I I think that is that is such an important principle for for young parents, especially, because it's so easy. Five more minutes, mom. Five more minutes, you know, whatever it is. And and as you start to negotiate, you teach them that these things are negotiable. And so I I I think in enforcing those consequences and sticking to those boundaries are super important. Aaron Brooker: Well, and that's that's just one of those things you you kinda learn is making sure that you're putting consequences you're you you will enforce, you Seth Stoker: Yeah. Aaron Brooker: know. Seth Stoker: Yeah, exactly. Like like i i if you just say, Hey, y you do this one thing and I'm gonna ground you for life or or you're gonna have to walk to school for the r or or what you know, whatever the case may be. If if you if you kind of blow it out of proportion and and exaggerate the consequence, then they learn not to take you seriously. Aaron Brooker: Yeah. Yep. And and learning how to take some emotion out of that so that so that as as Seth Stoker: Yes. Aaron Brooker: a dad, you can stay regulated and you can stay calm and you can act with grace as you're parenting. Like that that's a skill too is you know, your kid's throwing a fit and I'm getting upset because they're not listening to me and now I'm dishing out consequences angry, like that that's just not gonna end up in a good spot for anybody. Seth Stoker: Aaron, let's be honest, man. Like that's hard to do. Like it is easy to get frustrated as a dad. You know, you're tired anyway. You've got a million things you're trying to juggle, and then the the kids won't listen or they're pushing the boundaries or whatever. So how do you stay regulated? Aaron Brooker: Th this is this is a muscle that gets exercised. Like I I you you know, I you can't you can't switch a one eighty and get this figured out right away. You've got thirty, forty years of training in the opposite direction. And so I think in order to stay regulated, I mean you start you start off just with yourself. Like self self leadership, I mean, that involves for us a lot of faith in our family, but just self-leadership and self discipline is where this starts to trickle down from. Where where you can learn and ask yourself tough questions about, hey, what what is it that made me feel unsettled or unrest here? Where did I not exercise patience? Like that self-regulation and that self-discipline is gonna trickle down to your children. And so you have to make a little bit of time, qu quiet time for yourself to to ask yourself those questions. But you know, for any young dad who's struggling with anger or whatever it might be like. You know, it it took us thirty years to get to this spot. You're not gonna fix it overnight. Okay. So so any small wins can get stacked up on each other. Seth Stoker: Well, Aaron, I I think what you're calling out is so important because it's interesting. The role of the role of a father is so interesting because here I am. I have to take these kids and start helping them become who they have the potential to become. Right. Like I feel like that's such a huge we talked about this a little bit when I was a guest on your podcast is you know. We're helping, we're teaching our kids what they're becoming. And in the meantime, we're still becoming ourselves. It's not like you're a finished product once you have kids. And I think that's something that that's really important to remember. Like this survival mode concept that everybody falls into at times is really it's really easy to just stay there. And the fact of the matter is that in addition to being deliberate about helping your kids develop and become who they can become, you still have to take time to develop yourself. Aaron Brooker: you you settle for a level of functionality that is is not what it could be because because you're settling. And I think when I was teaching they said like, hey, you're gonna end up actually teaching mostly the way you were taught when you grow up. And p parenting is similar. Like I'm gonna end up parenting mostly to how I was parented just by default, unless I spend the time thinking about what it would look like to parent differently. This is why I'm so proud of my friends that just are breaking generational cycles is because that takes a lot of work to to parent in a way that you maybe didn't even have growing up. Seth Stoker: Yeah, that's spot on. In fact Aaron Brooker: And and that's that's that's the goal of your podcast. I'm I mean just giving people tools and conversations to think about those things. Seth Stoker: Exactly, because not everybody has great examples or resources to pull from. And so I I I love that we can provide these stories to help help young men who may not have those examples in their lives. And so I think that's a good transition because you brought up teaching. And and as we talked before before recording, you mentioned that you were exposed to the products of not having a father in the home or or or maybe even you know not having a a father who's engaged in the home and things like that. So Talk to me about your experience teaching in North Omaha and what did you learn about fatherhood through that experience? Aaron Brooker: so I was a little bit green behind the ears coming out of small town Nebraska into an very urban setting. Now people think hey it's Omaha, but it it is quite it's quite urban. There are some rap movies made on this area of town that that are famous in certain circles. And I was I I I moved into a Title One school, but it was a magnet school. And so the way they did that to just increase diversity is they would offer really sweet programming so that kids in the other parts of the city would be willing to bust down into other parts of town. And so Seth Stoker: Aaron, real quick, I'm gonna pause you. Just for those who don't know, what's a Title I school? Aaron Brooker: Title I school means a certain percentage of the kids are on free and reduced lunches. So a very high percentage of kids receive free and reduced lunches. Now, this magnet concept really brought the brightest and the best in the district into an area where they need it. You know, I mean, it just like diversified the school. And so I saw you know, a lot of poverty and I also saw a lot of great kids and great families that wanted to be there. And so it was a good experience for me to see you know full flavor as I moved into Omaha of what the district had to offer. And I, you know, I think I think where this is going is it it shaped kind of care how to see what character and parental involvement looked like. You know, like Seth, I had a child that was murdered one of my first years. you know, se several fathers died during during school years and, you know, a lot of conferences were with single moms or single grandparents who were just doing doing the best they could. Seth Stoker: So Aaron, in that case, I mean we we look at studies and things like that of of of fatherness fatherlessness in the home and that sort of thing, but you were able to witness these things firsthand. So what did you notice about maybe kids who grew up with a father in the home and and maybe with an engaged father in the home and those that didn't? Aaron Brooker: You y it it it it's kind of what we already talked about with consequences. And so when there is, you know, parents or even just single moms, but just having consequences and understanding that, I'm going to be in trouble for the way I acted or for the choices I made makes a tremendous difference in just developing and forming character. And so I'd say where where you saw the most problems was when the kids didn't have consequences at home either. And so the In general, kids wanna have boundaries. Like they want to know what the rules Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Aaron Brooker: are, where's the fence so I can learn how to succeed, so I can figure out what works and what doesn't work. Like that's a healthy thing in development. And so when a child doesn't have those kind of consequences at home, they're they're gonna push to find where they are in a school setting or whatever it might be, with relationships. I mean, hurting people, bullying, what those are those are kids looking for consequences to try to figure out what works in the world. Seth Stoker: It's so interesting that you say that, Aaron. I think kids crave discipline. And and what I mean by that is I had a guy named Jason Miller on the podcast a couple of ep episodes ago. Amazing episode. He grows up without a father in the home. Really, Aaron Brooker: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: really difficult childhood. And one of the most impactful things that he remembered from his childhood was when he was with his friend and his friend's dad was there. And he actually told a story of when he kind of took advantage of a a kid who has special needs, told told him to go get his guitar for him when there was no reason he couldn't go get it for get it himself. And he was taking advantage of the fact that that that kid didn't you know, didn't have full you know, full function or whatever. And and so he just he just listened to him and did it. And and his his friend's dad, Ron, called him out on it. He said, What are you doing, man? Like you're taking advantage of that kid. Go apologize Aaron Brooker: Yeah. Seth Stoker: right now. And it it it's so funny because I think we as as parents picture kids viewing discipline as this negative thing because they like to push back and things like that. But it meant so much to him because all of a sudden somebody had an expectation of him. And I think one of the biggest problems with kids who don't have fathers in the home is that means they they don't have a father figure that has expectations of them. I expect more Aaron Brooker: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: from you is actually really, really important for a kid to hear. Aaron Brooker: I did a speech one time, one of the assemblies, and it's like if you told an artist to just go create art, you who knows what they're gonna do. Like they they probably wouldn't even like that. But if you said, hey, use paint or use clay or it has to be this big or it has to be this small, like confining the art with some restrictions and parameters creates better art. And it's the same with our children and parenting. It's hey Setting up the the confinements of how to be successful in life are gonna give them tools to do that as adults. Seth Stoker: Yeah, fantastic. So on that note, what types of like what types of situations or experiences did you see as a teacher when you had kids who didn't have that influence in their home? Aaron Brooker: so the the the best operating principle when I was in the classroom is is to just think about power and love. Like those are the two things kids are gonna want. If they're not getting one, they're gonna try to find the other. And so I mean, I we we've parented a little bit different, but just in terms of operating out of my classroom, th this kid is probably acting out for power or he's acting out for love because he doesn't get one of those two things at home. And so Man, I remember one time I got in a big a big power struggle where I said, Hey, I I'm gonna call your mom and the kid said, Call her right in the middle of class. Call her right now. And so then it's like, Well, what do you do? Because you've got 25 other kids that want to learn and you just lost the power struggle with the kid. But you learn how to navigate through those situations so you can avoid power struggles and you can give kids love and and attention before you have any behaviors. You can give kids power and responsibility by just giving them tasks and chores to do and you know, r rewarding them with some ex extra things around the classroom. But the thing about the boundaries and the regulations is if you backed a kid into a corner, like they're gonna come out punching. And that means like verbal outli you know, verbal outlashes and might actually mean physical altercations, bullying other kids, or they're just gonna shut down and not do anything you want because they don't think that you respect them anymore. And so Those those gosh, you if you want me to recall some more things, I will tell you about this one situation, this one story on the basketball court, because I was coaching basketball and these two kids had lost a father and they were a pretty good family, but they had lost their dad. There were two brothers, one was an eighth grader, one was a seventh grader. And the eighth grader, he was a captain. We were sh choosing four teams for basketball practice. I made him one of the captains to play this, you know, scrimmage, and they got around to him. And without hesitation, I mean, he did not even think about it, but his first choice was his brother in seventh grade, who definitely was not the next best player to choose for for these teams. Like it it it was not even a question that he was gonna choose his brother to be his teammate. And that stood out to me. I don't know if the other kids noticed that, but I've I've thought about that for the last 10 years. That what what did that family have going on that Patrick's first choice of, you know, just team captains for a scrimmage. W was his brother when there were five kids that would have been better choices and, you know, would have made it more competitive to scrimmage with. And so I seeing that some of those things, you know, th on the basketball court, wrestling, parent teacher conferences, it impacted how intentional I wanted to be in raising my own kids. Seth Stoker: Now it's interesting that you were a coach. I I actually love coaching basketball as well. I've I I coached my older son all through his y younger years before high school. And then now I'm coaching my youngest son. and and he's in his last year before, you know, before they entered the school program. But I love coaching and I think there's so many principles that translate from coaching over to parenting because it's at the end of the day, that's what we are. Like we're developing people, whether it's developing players with certain skills, and and by the way, it's super important as a coach, like if you're not teaching and developing character in your players, you're missing the boat Aaron Brooker: Yeah. Seth Stoker: as well. And so tell me how maybe it's probably a chicken and the egg thing, but how did coaching impact your your approach as a parent or vice versa? Aaron Brooker: I I said that Y when you are in sports, you get situations and grit that do not just come all the time. And and so it's it's a moment in sports that you you get to develop that character for the long haul. And and I think actually, to be honest, that's why I think this youth sports boom that's come up, it is partly because kids just don't play outside and get competitive in their neighborhoods anymore. Like that That anxious generation kids have kind of retreated into their their houses and they don't get as much playtime. Parent parents intuitively know, hey, I gotta get my kids involved in some of these competitive situations where they have to work hard and grit and grind. And so see seeing the kids that I felt like had a lot of high character in the classroom. it was a lot of the wrestlers, it was a lot of the athletes because respect had been kind of expected they they've been expected to respect their coaches for so long. And so that influenced the way I wanted my kids to view other authority outside of the home. Right. Like that was just something that because I had seen it modeled so well in some of these like just great kids, my my boys, when we raised them, whether it was sports or not, like had had to respect some authority outside of the house. Like they had to just acknowledge that adults have some authority and it was a skill that we that we worked on developing. Seth Stoker: Yeah, I love coaching my kids, but I also love when they have a coach that's not me. because I I have the opportunity to teach them like, hey, when your coach is talking to you, you look them in the eye. you you don't walk away when they're when they're talking, you know, and and you notice, you know, in in years Aaron Brooker: Yeah. We Seth Stoker: of coaching, you notice the kids who have had that type of stuff instilled with them and and how to treat a coach with respect, and those that haven't. Aaron Brooker: Yep. yeah. No a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And w one just practical tip this guy said is like, hey, we're hands down, we're not hands up is what he tells his kids. And I was I started using it because, you know, the refs, the refs, no call. Like it's this is hands up approach. And he Hey, we're never hands up, we're always just hands down and calm calm about things that are happening. Seth Stoker: I like that. I like that a lot. Okay. So yeah, yeah, I agree. I think sports is such a great teacher, in addition because, you know, lots of lots of overlap with what we're trying to do as fathers in the sense that all right, maybe with maybe with sports you're developing a skill, right? Or you're developing a set of skills and and trying to become better and better. And and the beautiful thing about sports is you're gonna win, you're gonna lose. Aaron Brooker: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: I I I interviewed Someone named Nav, he awesome, awesome guest, and he is very into youth sports. And one of the things that he talked about is that failure is information, or yeah, failure is information, is what he said. And I think that's such a great thing that is taught by sports because failure is inevitable. You're gonna have a bad game, you're gonna have a bad week, month, you're gonna have a slump, whatever it is, and you gotta learn how to come out of that. And I I mean I think that that's life. We're gonna have challenges. We're gonna have things that we do well, things that we don't do well, and our job is to help our kids learn how to overcome those things and just become better and better versions of themselves. And so I wanna take you back just a little bit, Aaron. you look like you got something you wanna chime in on there. Aaron Brooker: Well, I was just gonna s say like w one year one of my basketball teams was like th we had this super class of athletes that those kids won football, they won basketball, they won wrestling. Like I think six of those kids might have played division one sports by the time they got to college. And so Seth Stoker: Wow. Aaron Brooker: w we won the city championship that like without me. Like no you know, and so my my practices were were spent figuring out how to develop character. And so we we actually instead of practicing in the gym, we did like little video sessions where we watched, remember that J Dog, that that team manager that like was shooting all the threes that one time. He had a little bit of autism and it went viral 10 years ago. I mean, Seth Stoker: Okay. Aaron Brooker: w watching that and using that as a teaching moment in the classroom for kids and then challenging these kids in their with their teachers, like we spent twenty five percent of the season developing some character content instead of just basketball content. And so it was a really fun year. And those kids now, Seth, we're aging ourselves, but you know, they found me on social media, they're friends, they ask about how it's going on. Like the ev even from eighth grade, it developed really great relationships in those boys' lives. Seth Stoker: You know what I love about that, Aaron, is that when you've got a team that has all the talent in the world and and you could probably roll the ball out there and go sit in the stands and and and they'd still win, like like what a great position to be in as a as a coach. But the fact that you're still finding ways to help them become better, it teaches them that there's no arrival point, which I think is really important. Like for them to succeed in life, they can't get complacent. And I I I think with our kids, it it's largely the same way. Like just because you've got a great kid who's a high achiever or whatever doesn't mean my job as a parent is done, because my job as a parent isn't just to help them become functional in society. My my job as a parent is that to help them become the best version of themselves. And the best version of this kid might be significantly higher than their peers or whatever, but but regardless, regardless of what their potential is, that doesn't change the fact that my job is to help them reach all of it. And so I I I love that you did. Aaron Brooker: Yeah, it's the art of coaching. It and so which which translate to parenting? Like the way Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Aaron Brooker: we parent our kids is not equal. Like it should be have some sort of fairness and justice, but it's definitely not gonna be equal in in our house just because those kids have different needs and different giftings. Seth Stoker: Yeah, I I I love hearing well I don't love it, but it it's so funny to hear, well well, that's not fair because you did this for for that sibling instead or or or whatever it is. And it's like, look, some kids you may need to be harder on them. That's just a fact. Like, like my my daughter is very good at like helping clean up after dinner, helping my wife make dinner and and doing a lot of the little things that it is like pulling teeth to get my boys to do. And so what that results in is I end up assigning a lot more chores to my boys because if I don't assign specific things for them to do to clean up dinner or whatever the case may be, they won't do it. But I know my daughter will. And and they they interpret that as, dad's being unfair. And it's like, no, I just it it requires me to approach things with you differently than your sister. Aaron Brooker: F fair does not mean equal. And and we Seth Stoker: Right. Aaron Brooker: see some parents get themselves stuck. Well, I did this for one kid, so now I gotta there's a there's like this monetary value on it or this time on it that the other kid deserves. I'm like, you're you're making life a little bit harder on yourself. And Seth, back to your original question, like you had to figure that out in the classroom pretty fast. That that fair is not gonna be equal. And there's some kids that are gonna take most of your attention and just figuring out a way so that everybody still feels heard and loved, but but it's never gonna be equal. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Aaron, let's back up a little bit. I want you to tell me about your dad. Aaron Brooker: Yep. So I have one brother and parents, I mean great parents still together, but my father started a little bit older in life. And so that meant some things were pretty established, but it also meant like I didn't, you know, he didn't coach our teams and I I got, you know, a few memories of f fishing and throwing the ball, but not like a ton of stuff like like maybe my kids would have. And so I think just because my dad was quiet and faithful. in just how he served, you know. So it was a it was a little bit of a routine where he left early, came home from work, sat down from work and read the paper, and then then was ready to kind of be engaged at home. But for the most part, my dad just kind of served with like a quiet kind of leadership style that looking back on that now, like I'm just so grateful for how dedicated and faithful he was. Like it's just encouragement in social media age to feel a little bit fluttery or a little bit kind of anxious about something. Like, hey, for thirty years, day in, day out, I don't know if my dad had good days or bad days at work because he never told us if he had good days or bad days at work, but he did what he needed to do to to provide for the family. And that that was a good example for for me. Seth Stoker: So clearly two things is you you said it twice. And so two things that stuck out to you were dedicated and faithful. Now you mentioned that he was consistent. He didn't bring, you know, didn't bring work home, you know, didn't let you know when he had bad days, but how else did that manifest? Aaron Brooker: So that meant that a lot of well a lot of a lot of things that we wanted to do or a lot of boundaries that we wanted to, you know, test or press or privileges, like we ended up talk talking to mom about a lot of that stuff. And and dad kind of had the quiet final word on things. And and that's kind of what that looked like growing up. Now My dad did a lot of things, took us to church, and there was one system he developed that that became a kind of a hallmark for Adadad, where my my dad wrote a letter every Christmas. And I think, you know, we've got these internet blogs and videos where we can just gather all these ideas. Like the information is easy to find. you know, back in the 90s, it's not like he could search this stuff up, but there was a book that went around, said letters from dad. And it outlined an idea just like the ones we talk about, where every Christmas my dad w wrote us a letter. And so when those first started, they were really impactful. And it took some forethought. Like I got a little box that had my name engraved on it. And I still have the box and I still put nice letters that I received from my dad and other people into it. But every Christmas, you know, a letter kind of recapping our year, praising us for the things we did, seeing where he thought. you know, where we're growing and where we were learning and what he's hoping for in the next year. And having that in front of me to look at and to r you know think about like that that that made a big impact in feeling loved. Seth Stoker: Yeah, do you do you mind sharing maybe an example that you can think of of of maybe one letter that really impacted you? Aaron Brooker: my you know, when I look back at some of the things that my parents let me do, like I just don't know if it was the nineties and things were different than they are now, but I got I got in the car and I took some pretty n gnarly road trips. you know, eight seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, t twenty years old. And that that's something that I never would have seen my dad do, just because work you know, p newspaper and a little bit of reading and there wasn't a whole making sure the grass is nice, like there wasn't a whole lot of stuff outside of that. And so for for my dad to just recognize, hey, you are adventurous, you're taking chances, and we're proud of, you know, the person you're becoming, like that reinforced a vision I wanted for myself that helped me feel more secure in who I am. And so when you you know, you think about how many people look for their dad's approval, like like to feel like in a lot of ways I was doing things that I wouldn't have imagined my dad doing, but I still had his approval in some of those adventures and some of that independence meant a lot to me. Seth Stoker: Man, we can learn a lot from your dad because I I tell you what. It's so easy to fall into the trap of just correction, right? Like you need to be better at this. You need to be better at this. And and by the way, like we have to do it, but we have to do it in a productive way. But how much more impactful is it when your dad says, Hey, here are the gifts that you have? Like, here are the strengths Aaron Brooker: Absolutely. Seth Stoker: that you have that you can really magnify. And he doesn't even have to say you have to magnify it. But a guy who is pretty quiet most of the time, who writes a letter and says, Hey, Aaron, you are. Really good at this. This is one of your strengths. Of course, you're gonna say, okay, this is who I am. This is something that I do well. And I'm gonna double down on that, right? Aaron Brooker: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, I mean, it makes all the difference in the world. And, you know, for as much as we already talked about boundaries and consequences, like we're we're at that stage where the kids are older and the boundaries and the consequences don't don't really apply in the same way. Like it this is this is the stage where I ask my kids like, Hey, is that really who you wanna be? Is is that is that really the decision you wanna be about? Are you sure you wanna be known for acting like that? Like I don't actually give them the same consequences I did when they were little. And and it's the same same thing with this letter at that formative stage of life with my dad is like, hey, this is who you're becoming, this is who I see you as, and we're proud of you. that just that just makes a big impact on on the the teenage years. Seth Stoker: So when your dad's a quiet guy like that, doesn't you not one to say the things that are in the letter on a daily basis, maybe, or that sort of thing, how much more did that mean to you when you received those letters and were able to hear the things that maybe went unsaid during the year? Aaron Brooker: You for for the first ten years of those letters, man, there there was a lot of anticipation and excitement about what's what what's he gonna say? You know, like n now for the last ten years, there's not a lot of changes. Like, hey, you still got kids, you still got a job, like y your wife still likes you, you know, like good job. But for those first ten years, that there was a little anticipation, like this is a mo like this is a moment because it was pretty special. And so, That that I mean, we're still talking about it now. T tw thirty years later. And so that's that means something to kind of carry that tradition on for so long. I sorry, one last thing. Seth Stoker: So Aaron, let's let's learn go ahead. Aaron Brooker: I well, I just I've just been saying this like the game is actually longer than people give it credit for. You know, like we're we're we're twenty five years away from being where our parents are, and our parents still got, you know, my Still got a little bit of stuff in front of them. Like they're they're they got days to fill up with hobbies and friends and whatever it is, travel or whatever it is they want to do. Like there is a lot longer game to be played here. And so when you start setting frameworks up that kind of build for twenty and thirty years, like that that makes a big impact on people. Seth Stoker: So let's learn from this as like together as fathers. Like if I'm a new dad and let's say I I'm not big on writing letters, man, for whatever reason, you know, in this social media age, maybe maybe I don't have the attention span to sit down and write it all my kids a letter, although I should. what other things can I do to help accomplish the same things that your dad was accomplishing with the letters? Aaron Brooker: Well, we're talking about one letter a year, but the here's here's here's what you could do is you I text my kids every morning. So so when I, you know, spend some quiet time and I read the Bible, I I either snapshot a little something I read or I just grab a proverb for the day and I send I send it with a little bit of dad wisdom. And it, you know, I'm already kind of there doing that. It takes me an extra two minutes, but that is words and wisdom that they get a get a hear from me. I think anything that you can do consistently is going going to make a a big difference. And it's important to give yourself just grace with that. F for example, I said like, hey, on Tuesdays I spend the evening with this son, on you know, Thursdays and Fridays, I got a little bit of time carved out for this son. And I say that like it's on the calendar and it happens all the time. But Seth, like it to be honest, it probably happens fifty percent of the time. And that's That's still two nights a week where they get to have some special time, get some special questions. And so I can say, man, I only did it half the time. Or I can say, hey, there's two times where they got one-on-one intentional, focused time that was building a purpose and direction. And so, you know, I guess that's what I'm saying to the dads is. There's a lot of ideas floating around out there that you can gr but if you can just grab one and and if you're doing it zero percent of the time and you start doing it fifty percent of the time, that's gonna make a difference. And if you can grab one easy idea and do it a hundred percent of the time, like that's gonna make a difference. But it's it's just taking that steps and tr trying to do something is the first, the first, you know, important part. Seth Stoker: Yeah, one of the coolest parts of doing this podcast is I get to hear these ideas all the time. Like I'm learning from dads every single time I have these conversations. And it's interesting because my kids are on the older side, you know, 14, 15, and 19. Sometimes I think it feels like it's easy to just be like, God, I wish I would have implemented that 10 years ago. I w I wish I would have done that 10 years ago, but You talked about giving yourself some grace. It's never too late to start. And I've had a few things that I've been able to take away from the conversations that I've had that I've been able to implement with my kids, even though they're older. Like you can start a tradition when your kids are nineteen. You can start a tradition when your kids are thirteen. It doesn't matter. Aaron Brooker: Long game, man. Like, you know, your hope's probably that those kids, whatever holiday you choose, when they've got families of their own, like there's a tradition or something to come back to your house for. And so you're thinking about that even now to set it up and say, hey, this is what what we want our kids to kind of be tethered to when they have families of their own. Like you're not, you're right. It's a long, long game. And your kids like 25 years from now, your kids are going to be. you know, our age and s sorting through this on their own too. So Yeah. Seth Stoker: Right. Right. Exactly. Okay, so so you learned some really cool things from your dad, obviously. I I actually I I I love the story of your dad, just because I you know, picturing him as this quiet guy who then would pour his heart out in letters. I think that's super cool because probably not comfortable for him either in some ways. Aaron Brooker: Well, he's you know, he's got a stutter and you know, like it was just a chance to say what you really wanted to say, right? Yeah. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. So, what other things would you say you learned from your dad that have bled into the way you parent your kids? Aaron Brooker: man. So the the one thing that when when your dad is a quiet provider that you learned, and and I think Seth, there there is probably an element where us, you know, millennial Gen Xers, like, you know, the amount of information and therapy and everybody starts to look at this stuff and say, like, yeah, like That was kind of messed up. And that did shape me in a bad way. And if my parents would have done this, then I I probably would have had a more better view of myself in this way. You know, like we we, I think, overanalyze a lot of those things in a negative way. And the good news is it is up to us. Like, no nobody's gonna come save us from that. Right. Like when we realize that, hey, Like like your one guest who grew up without a father and has had to write that ship in a way that's just gonna be a blessing for generations to come. Like, you know, through God's grace and and transformation, but really it is up to us to to make some of those things happen. Right. And so when I look at, hey, my father quietly provided for the family, and that was a fantastic example of what consistency and what leadership can look like. But at the same time, I'm like, man, I I wish, I wish he would have had some more difficult conversations with me. Or I wish that my dad maybe would have corrected me when he knew this was going on, or he knew that was going on. Like, there's a few moments like that where I'm like, that would have actually, I can look back and say, saved me from stuff in my twenties or formed me a little bit better. And and so the Seth Stoker: Ca Aaron, can you give us an example? I'm dying to know what like what would have been helpful. Aaron Brooker: Yeah, okay, fair enough. In in the early nineties, you know, like there's one computer in the house and, you know, my brother and I would sneak, you know, we'd watch we'd watch TV shows that we weren't allowed to watch when the parents weren't home, and then we'd change the password or you'd look up stuff on the internet that would not have been appropriate. And th there there's a moment where my parents probably knew that was happening and didn't didn't just come talk to us about, you know, wh why that's not h healthy, you know. Like just man to man, we were old enough to say, like, hey, these these are not healthy choices that you're making with your time and your energy that are gonna affect you long term. Like n now we could say, hey, you're creating all these dopamine pathways in your brain and your, you know, your view of women is gonna be a little bit skewed. But those are conversations that could have happened that, you know, didn't happen. And so when I think about that. as as a parent myself, it's like, hey, there it's okay to be brave and awkward and proactive in things that I feel like are forming my kids in the wrong way. And so what I'm saying is you get you get the positive example of consistency and Well, the quiet example of just consistency of showing up, but but there's also that counterexample of what it looks like to be a little bit more vocal and proactive on conversations. Seth Stoker: Yeah. You know, at a previous company that I worked at, we had we were big on the book Crucial Conversations, which is all about having hard conversations. And we actually had the the author of Crucial Conversations come and present to us at like a holiday meeting or or an annual meeting that we did as an organization. And I'll never forget one of the things that he taught us. He he said, you can measure the health of an organization by lag time. And what he defined as lag time is the amount of time from when a concern or an issue or a conflict or whatever the case may be, something or something happens, and the amount of time between then and when it's actually addressed or communicated about. And the goal in our organization was zero lag time. Like if there's something that needs to be addressed, let's go address it now. Let's not wait. And I think that principle absolutely applies to parenthood. Like if there's a conversation that needs to be had, and and you talk like you're walking, you're out on a walk with your wife, and you guys talk about it and and you say, Hey, I'm worried about this kid because of this specific thing or or or whatever we observed, the question is. How quickly are you going to address it? Because that problem A is not going to go away. And B, look at this. So years and years later, Aaron, you're, you're looking back, wishing that your parents had had the tough conversation with you. And it's it it I think kids will discount the fact that it is scary sometimes as a parent. You're like, I don't want to go, you know, throw the grenade in this room and and and have a a a crazy night because because we've got this thing that we need to address. And so I'm just gonna like hope it goes away. They don't go away. In fact, they the problems just get bigger if you let And so I think zero lag time is something that every parent should shoot for when they think about what I need to address with. Aaron Brooker: You know, you you y you talk to your friends about some of their stories of times they messed up and their parents corrected them or they got in trouble. And it's like most of us will say, I deserved it or or you know, like I needed that. It was the best thing that happened. Like a lot of time you know, a lot of times that is what we talked about earlier with the little kids, like the boundary that we really wish we had. Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I want to get into some of the frameworks and and maybe more some of the more practical things that we've talked about that I think will really help dads. And so let's revisit. I know we talked about the cell phone contract, and and you've already kind of you alluded to the fact that there's things that kids can find online, and it's so easy to find some of these things, you know, pornography, or even just like messaging that's not valuable or helpful to you in your life and things like that. So I I love that you're being deliberate about cell phone use. In fact, you had somebody on your podcast recently that all they talked about was the the impact that cell phone usage has had on kids and the dangers associated with it. And so I would love to hear your approach, just in general, how do you approach cell phones with your kids? Aaron Brooker: So they don't need them, which is which is part of the thing you have to tell yourself is I've got I've got one dad and they waited till high school. And I'm like, How are you doing this? Don't you text your kids? You guys, no, they just wait for us. We'll figure it out. They know where to wait and it's just old school. Yeah, it works out. But Seth Stoker: And it was fine, right? Aaron Brooker: we we've kind of like, you know, wanted to inoculate technology use in there in the sense that, you know, gradually we want to show some responsibilities. And so when the kids got to middle school, we were gonna wait and we realized. Pretty quickly, like the teachers need to take pictures of stuff. Like there's just some level of communication where we got a dumb phone so that they could text and call if they needed to. And we use gab so they could even send a picture text and with with a couple of their friends. I don't know if I'd recommend Gab again, but it it definitely did the trick we were looking for, where hey, we've got a dumb phone that is not appealing and you don't look like you're just totally weird and left out with your peers. And so we did the Gab phone. Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: Just to be clear, when you talk about a dumb phone, no social media apps, no I mean, what are the bas i it it can just do Aaron Brooker: No apps. Yeah. Seth Stoker: the basic functions of calling, texting, that sort of thing? Aaron Brooker: Calling, texting, and pictures is is what it what it allowed you to do. Yep. Yep. And Seth Stoker: Keep going, sorry. Aaron Brooker: well, no, that was that was kind of our first step into it. And then when you got to high school, we went ahead and allowed a smartphone for our I guess he's a freshman now. but it but it's it has some restrictions until we just, you know, prove that we're responsible. And so the smartphone, there's a few apps that we approve and you can monitor a little bit of screen time. and you know, we we want them to be able to stay social and engaged with their peers in a healthy way. And so, you know, we can talk about any app decisions that he asks us about. But you what you don't want to do is hand that kid the race car when they're, you know, 17, 18 years old and they've got no practice or you know, good hygiene on how to use it. And so that's kind of why we've done the gradual thing now. The cell phone contract is real simple. And it's just focusing on what the proper role technology plays in. Like technology is not good or bad, but the the way our hearts interact with it is the most important thing. And so you always have to be relationally present. That's the number one thing on the cell phone contract. Like if your device is pulling you away from relationships, that's a problem. Number two, you always have to give it to us whenever we ask so we can check and see things. And then N num number three is just don't talk to strangers and text numbers you don't know and just a few things like that. But it's not comp it's not not much to it. I mean, it's just Seth Stoker: So let's go back to number. Yeah. Aaron Brooker: that that easy. Seth Stoker: Let's go back to number two then, because I I know that there's parents out there who may feel uncomfortable going through their kids' phones or in you know invading their kids' privacy. And and for me, hey, I'm providing this phone for you as a benefit to you know you being able to communicate. Also, it's a benefit to me because I can communicate to you. But there is no privacy. Like my kids know that we're going through their cell phones at night. We we know who they're communicating with. And and granted, look. If kids try hard enough, they can hide stuff from you. Like it's inevitable. But there's no illusion Aaron Brooker: No, no doubt, yeah. Seth Stoker: of privacy with my kids when it comes to cell phone use. And I think that is really, really important. I think parents that that think they have to respect a certain level of privacy and they shouldn't go through their kids' phones. Like these kids are not adults. They are not, their brains are not. fully developed to the way where they can use good judgment all the time. And when we when we think about the fact that these cell phones are specifically designed, like deliberately designed to addict you to their usage, like you cannot give your kids, in my opinion, just free reign on privacy with this, you know, the this crazy device that we never like didn't even have any of the capabilities back when we were kids. Aaron Brooker: We so so this goes back to just like thinking about your own cell phone usage, right? Like Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Aaron Brooker: you you can't just teach this without also modeling it. And and so we we're we're at that point where your kids are in high school and like we we want to know what's going on, but more than anything, post high school, we want our kids to come ask us questions, right? Like we want them to we we want to be the consultant. In their life moving forward. Like I would love to just be on the board of advisors, listening to the things you're struggling with and being able to give you opinions and advice and just do good dad stuff moving forward. And so when it comes to just privacy on the cell phone, like that is a boundary we feel like respecting because I don't want to lose their trust and confidence Seth Stoker: Interesting. Aaron Brooker: in those things. And so I I do have some friends that know everything that's going on in their kids' life and that that works for them. I that was not the case when I was growing up. You know, I wish I would have had a few more boundaries as Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Aaron Brooker: a as a child, but what what what we have to do is be regulated and calm. So when you do have that information, you can steward it with responsibility. Like if I if I was just going through my kids' phone to blast him on who he's talking to or how he responded to something or to nitpick some of those things, like I'm gonna lose some of his respect in that way. And so we just want to make sure we're loving and take that information ki kindly so that so that it can be respect, you know, so that our opinions can be respected going forward. Seth Stoker: Yeah, I th I think that's really interesting that that we have a little bit of a disagreement here. And I think that's fine. Like everybody's got an approach that works Aaron Brooker: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: for them. And so no judgment there, but maybe just for some context, when we go through the phone, it's not it like we're not getting them up every morning and being like, okay, here's what we found. Aaron Brooker: Right. Seth Stoker: You know what I mean? A lot of it is for context, for us to understand who they're communicating with, what kind of conversations they're they're having. And there have been times, like for example, I I've seen a a a group chat where some some relatively inappropriate things were being shared. And that's something that we wanted to nip in the butt because I I don't really want my son participating in those types of conversations. And so that gave us an opportunity to sit down and say, hey, look, Like this isn't this isn't like you getting in trouble or anything like that, but let's talk about like who we're trying to become and how this is helping you get there or not. Right. And so it yeah. Go ahead. Aaron Brooker: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and I don't know. You know, I don't it's nice for you to have some context like, hey, these are probably not the friends you want to be friends with if this is a conversations. Seth Stoker: Exactly. Yeah. Aaron Brooker: But I guess the boundary is saying, like, hey, you're not gonna hang out with these kids or hey, do you really wanna hang out with people when this is how they talk? You know, like there's just a difference in those teenage years of figuring out how how to come along shoulder with with your kids. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, you you mentioned that you wished maybe you'd have had more tough conversations or uncomfortable conversations with your parents growing up. And and I think for us, the way we look at it as it does give us more information that allows us to know whether or not a conversation needs to be had. But I do think you're right. Like, like if I was to if I was to just you know, beat my kid over the head every morning with what I found on their phone the night before, then they just find ways to to shut everything down and hide it from me. So I think there's a balance there. Aaron Brooker: Absolut I mean, absolutely. If you think back, you know, to the nineties, like you could just like turn off and restrict the usage, right? Like that that didn't actually involve a conversation talking about Seth Stoker: Right. Aaron Brooker: what good health looks like, what what's going on in in my heart and what am I searching for. You know, it I just knew like, hey, there's another hurdle to try to jump around and figure out a way to get around it so that I'm not in hindered by it anymore. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Aaron Brooker: Right. Same same with the same with Understanding the context on your cell phones. It's like, hey, if you just keep restricting things, most kids or a lot of kids are going to find ways to get around the restrictions rather than having that conversation about good health, what's going on in your heart, what are you really desiring here? What what kind of priorities does this show? Those are the conversations we want to have. Seth Stoker: What about social media? How are you guys managing that specifically on the phones? Aaron Brooker: Well, y d they my wife found some guy who gave a really nice plan on how to just like sh restrict the iPhone. So so we we are not Seth Stoker: Yeah. Aaron Brooker: social media friendly yet. you know, that that is something that we feel like's probably like junior year like is acceptable. And so like I said, we're just kind of taking the training wheels off as we go. so we're not not big fans of social media. But Seth Stoker: Yeah. Aaron Brooker: You gotta learn how to navigate it somehow. You know, like that's the like we just said, like there's gonna have to be some point in the next four years where we talk through how to navigate social media responsibly. And so as we give those permissions and allow some of those different apps, you know, they've gotta know what what a good health on social media looks like. Seth Stoker: That actually gives me more clarity as to how you guys approach even the, you know, the privacy conversation. Because if you know you've got the phone restricted to a point to where really all they can do is have conversations, you know, limited pictures and things like that, then that also limits the amount of trouble that they can really get into. as you introduce social media, I think you know, monitoring it probably becomes a little bit more important because there's this whole new world that's opened up. Aaron Brooker: Yep. Seth Stoker: into it. But I think you're being smart, Aaron. The reason I say that is because I gave my son Instagram. I would say, now I'm trying to remember. I want to say it was like at 14 or or or 15 or something like that. And I can't remember exactly. I probably should. But I actually regret it. And with my younger two kids, I have I will delay it as long as I possibly can because and and not because of like like necessarily the trouble that's that's found on social media or anything like that, because you know, my my son's pretty emotionally resilient and and I think he knows what you know what he should be looking at, what he shouldn't be looking at, that sort of thing. That doesn't scare me. What scares me is how addictive these things are deliberately designed to be. And the fact that he, you know, and and this isn't unique to my son. I'd I'd say any kids who have access to social media, train their brain to numb their minds and just scroll and scroll and scroll. And that's what they that's what they want you to do. It I the the guy on your podcast said Aaron Brooker: Yeah, and there's Seth Stoker: they're designed to to cause you to spend as much time on the app as possible, right? Aaron Brooker: Yep. Yep. And it it hinders your focus. You know, I mean I could tell just Seth Stoker: Yes. Aaron Brooker: my own self. Like I'm like, gosh, I just spent twenty minutes looking, you know, doom scrolling, like on these little short videos. Like that's a lot of focus that just gets conditioned to to not be put in the right areas. Seth Stoker: Well, and at 15 years old, you don't have the tools to manage that. I mean, and and I'm with you. Like at 43 years old, it's tough. It is really tough not to fall into that trap. So how do you do it at 15? Aaron Brooker: Well, yeah, Seth, you your oldest and my oldest. It's the same thing. I was like, Hey, you're we're learning w with Seth Stoker: Yeah. Aaron Brooker: the oldest kid. you know, you you you said, Hey, so now the younger ones are probably gonna be delayed on social media and I think that's wise. Like it goes it goes the opposite way sometimes too, where my son, he came and he said, Dad, when I was seven years old, I had to watch Wildcratz and you're letting Ari play Fortnite. I'm like, Well, you Seth Stoker: Ha ha. Aaron Brooker: know, it's just kinda It's kinda what happens when you're the oldest and we become a little bit wiser at as parents as we understand how some of these things work. Like w there's a lot of fear with the firstborn. By the third born, it's like, Hey, this is okay. We've done it before and we feel comfortable with it. Sorry, sorry to the oldest that, you know, this is happening earlier than when when when you were little. Seth Stoker: Yeah, exactly. Tell me about your family meetings. Aaron Brooker: So that that that's in one of the handouts, and they are short and sweet. And that is that is a tip from my teacher friend because you you have to build on success. And so the family meetings are on Sunday afternoons where everybody gets to look each other in the eye. We say as many good things about the week as we can. This this person did well here. Hey, I noticed you did this chore. Hey, good job on your homework, man. You're tackling all the sports, the time management. Mom got a new. promotion at work, whatever it might be, like we just focus on as many good things as we can. And then it is what is coming up on the week ahead. And so it is just like touch points for the week to to build expectations. You know, we never did this, but you know those families that say like 10 minute warning, five minute warning, okay, now it's really time to go. Like it's a little bit like that. in the in for for the family meeting. It's hey, this is happening and this is happening and everybody needs to be aware of this so that when it comes up in the week, we're not sorting through surprises and emotions of that. and then I always try to find one little challenge like personal habit challenge. Okay. Seth Stoker: Hmm. Aaron Brooker: So the the last one I did was what can you measure in your week? Like you need to write down something and and just chart it or measure it. So it could be push-ups, it could be hangtime, it could be pages you've read, but just to develop the little skill of measurement. And so then the next week we we can hold accountable some of those little skills. Like that's one more thing to talk about at the next family meeting. And then And and I mean that's that's pretty much it, Seth. Like you know, like is there anything else anybody wants to talk about? There's an open forum. Food you wanna get us ordered, you know, are you running low on some supplies? are you mad about something that you haven't told us yet? Like that's you know, fifteen, twenty minutes of family meeting is a is what it takes Sunday after Sunday evenings. Seth Stoker: Dang it, Aaron. I'm I'm I'm sitting here. This is one of those things where where it's like, I wish I had had learned that sooner and implemented in my family. Because I I love the fact that you've got the whole family working on something together because that is something that we haven't necessarily been deliberate about. But I'm like, I'd love to go back 10 years and implement that. That's awesome. Aaron Brooker: well, not to call her out too much, but my wife, you know, we got to the next family meeting and she didn't really she didn't really follow through on one one of one of the challenges. And so it was like a moment, hey, guys, this is why we're working on these things. So Seth Stoker: Man, okay, so so what impact has that had specifically? Like what have you seen come from that? Aaron Brooker: So that's a that's a great point. because these things build build up over time, and this is something that I wish we would have been doing f four years ago also. You know, like it's it's relatively new for us to do these family meetings. But man, I tell you what, Seth, like there is a a chance to you you can kind of just take a lot of challenges in your week and get them get them sorted out on Sundays. Like there's so many things you don't have to deal with in the moment. Because now you've put space and time to to deal with it. And so if one kid's having a big issue or, you know, really frustrated about something, like we can say, hey, let's talk about this on Sunday, or or we're gonna work this out between you two brothers here on Sunday. And so that's that's made moving through the week a little bit easier. I mean, obviously when everybody kind of knows what's happening with the schedule, what the plan is, that makes the week move a little bit easier. And and then just like I said, those little challenges, like one of them was charting something. One of them was quitting something. What what can you abstain from or give up or drop this week that would make your life better? You know, one of them's just reading. And so like th those things are going to stack up for for them as they start to become young adults that have to manage their own skills and goals and priorities. Seth Stoker: what sticks out like w like what did one of your kids abstain from or or or give up that that you were able to see an impact from? Aaron Brooker: well, so my actually my my one son, he decided to actually time how long he was at school. And I think like he he was trying to make a point. So he he he kept the stopwatch for every hour he was at school Seth Stoker: Ha ha. Aaron Brooker: and then came back and said, Well, actually, dad, I was at school 52 hours this week. I'm like, my gosh, that's a lot of activities. But created a moment where we could really praise him because he was able to do all the things around the house and get his homework done. I'm like, this is great time management that that you've learned. one of the kids gave up gave up any sort of suites for the week and you know felt a little bit better at basketball practice. I mean marginally better when you know you don't notice it too much when you're that young. But the it's just it's built building some of those reward systems where Hey, you do this, you get this, you do this, you get that and and making sure that they can feel success along the way. Seth Stoker: Cool. Cool. Well, let's talk about what we haven't covered yet because I feel like we've we've covered a r a wide range of things. I'd love to know what else do you feel like is really important to teach your kids? Aaron Brooker: the the challenges, you know, we you talked about this on our podcast, but I think I think this is one thing worth leaving is that hard things and challenges are a blessing. Like like the the pressure that all the dads who are listening to this feel, that that pressure is a privilege that you are grateful to have. You know, if you thought about somebody who maybe never had kids and focused on their career and my gosh, they are living the life because they travel and they've got nice things and they're not spending all this money on that. Like That that gets a little bit empty and lonely when you start getting older. And so, do not walk away from just challenges or hard things with your kids. My son last year got he got on the reserve basketball team. And, you know, you you the pecking order is not necessarily a bad thing, but all the good basketball shorts got chosen and Jonas got like the biggest, baggiest shorts. That you can imagine. Like they did not fit at all. And I've been in those locker rooms and I've seen how the kids end up finding their uniforms. And, you know, the big kids should get the big shorts, but those aren't in style anymore. And so he came home, man, and he was upset about it. I mean, ready to quit the team. There were some tears involved. Like it was it was pretty, it was pretty traumatic to say, like, I'm never playing basketball with these shorts on. And The first instinct was to email the coach and say, There's gotta be somebody to trade with, or an extra pair, or can't the school provide something to solve, you know, there's no reason he should be wearing shorts down here. And I I stopped I stopped my wife before we did that and I said, Actually, Jonas can go ask the coach all of these questions. Let let him figure this out or let go. talk around to all his teammates and make the trade happen and figure out how to get this problem solved. we don't have to jump in and intervene on that. And so that that's just a small example. But man, I'm so glad we did that because y he developed just better relationships with the people around him by having to speak up for himself that way. Seth Stoker: I love that. I actually i i this is another product of because I've been having these conversations, I've been thinking a lot more of how how I can be deliberate as a dad. I took my fifteen year old daughter to get a debit card yesterday. Well, I took her to the bank and I when when they said can we help you? my thought I I I I said, Yeah, my daughter needs a debit card and and they were with customers, so we we they they asked us to wait a few minutes. And then I realized like, why am I speaking for her at all? Like like this is an opportunity for her to to handle Aaron Brooker: Yeah. Seth Stoker: this situation. So I went and we we went and sat down to at the table and and the next teller that was available said, Okay, how can I help you? I said I just pointed my daughter. I said, go ahead. And she ended up just going through the whole process by herself. And like, it's a little thing. It's not hard to get a debit card. Aaron Brooker: It Seth Stoker: but at the same time, it's a situation where she had to learn to handle like dad's not gonna handle this for me. I'm gonna handle it myself. Aaron Brooker: It is hard to give up some of that control, because we value efficiency so much. Like I just wanna get things done and I wanna be effective and this is gonna go slower than than I wanted it to. And so I I've got one one boy who, man, he gets a little bit scattered on getting himself ready. And I just wanna get it all in front of him, pile it up and say, Here's your stuff. Well Seth Stoker: Ha ha ha. Aaron Brooker: we'll you know, we're ready. But I d I try When when I can I try really hard not to because that's not you know, that's not gonna serve anybody in the long run. Seth Stoker: Well, that's how they learn. Like you you gotta you gotta let them you gotta give up control for them to be able to learn and be in those situations. Aaron Brooker: That that and that's I think that's what your question was. Like I just think the just embrace the challenges as learning opportunities and it's gonna change your attitude about them. It's gonna get your better perspective and y you don't you don't want a life without some challenge or adversity. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Yeah. So all right, two more quick questions. the first one is you talk about travel a lot on your podcast, like travel as a family. T tell me why that's so important to you. Aaron Brooker: I read this b I read this book, Die with Zero, a few years ago, and it kind of put into words how how we feel about travel. But the guy in the Die with Zero book said, like, hey, when I got out of college, I went to work and I made, you know, however much money he made. And the guy across the desk from meat backpacked Europe, was gone for three months, ca came back home, and you know, as far as I could tell. had everything that I had, he just maybe was, you know, $15,000 behind where I was at that point in my life. But he had all these stories and experiences and opportunities. And so when you travel, you create memories that you get to inv like you get to remember over and over again. And so they're called memory dividends. They build confidence. You've got experiences and you get to see, I think it's hard to be I think it's hard to be Bigoted when you get to see more parts of the world. Like you get to just be more open-minded and compassionate towards people when you understand bigger parts of the world. And so when you travel, you you are setting aside time, which is the hardest part at this point. I think the reason people don't take vacations is because they can't imagine blocking off that much calendar space or justifying blocking off this much calendar space. So you're taking time and money. To say like the these are things that we are building and creating for our family. And so for as much as we talk about being intentional, like a family vacation is maybe one of the most intentional things that you can do because you realize those experiences are are important. And so I d I don't think it matters where you go or if it goes well or doesn't go well, because the memories get to be played over and over again. Like my favorite stories are the travel of things where it all went haywire. And you know, it got really messy and I was starving and you know I I've done a lot of travel, Seth, and we just the the bad vacation story the bad vacations become your best stories down the road. Seth Stoker: Alright, give us one. Aaron Brooker: w when we were backpacking e Europe, my my buddy this you want a family story, you want a personal story? Seth Stoker: Yeah, y you drive. Aaron Brooker: Okay, sorry. So so we he decided we decided we could go to Egypt. And this is before cell phones. Like we had to go to the internet cafe. And somehow we bought a ticket from Athens to Cairo with nothing. Like we had we had no guide, no cell phone. I don't even know what we're doing. But in Athens, we found a lonely planet tour guidebook. And that was all we showed up in Cairo with. But We had a whole data kill in Athens. And it's funny because this was in the newspapers. Like as I was reading the newspapers back home, we got we got chased by wild dogs. There they had a big dog problem in Athens back in like 2006. And so we got off the boat and we got surrounded by wild dogs like three times. Like we had to keep jumping in the subway to try to get away from them. And I I've told that story so many times to my kids and my classroom and That that's the type of stuff where I was very, very scared, but that that's the story that kind of like shapes, you know, how my kids view me as an adventurous person. Seth Stoker: Yeah, I I think you're right. Like this have like create mate prioritizing these experiences creates those opportunities. And even when they go haywire, they're so memorable. Like w my family, we're a boating family, and and we took a trip with another family down to Lake Powell. And it was we we had a great trip. It it that's a big lake here in kind of the Utah Arizona border, and it's like you're you're boating on the moon, man. It's crazy. But we we took a trip with this other family. They had their boat, we had our boat, and we we were having a great time. I mean, we were we we were surfing, we were fishing, catching, catching fish and and really getting into them. And so we're having a great time. And then we got a call from our friends who had it's about a 45 minute drive from where we were back to the dock. Like it's this huge lake. And they went to pick up their son, and when they were driving to go pick up their son, they ran over a sandbar. and totally Aaron Brooker: no. Seth Stoker: just ruined their boat. And so Aaron Brooker: no. Seth Stoker: we ended up having to tow them back in it, you know, it's 45 minutes when you're driving fast. So it was a two hour tow back to the marina to get their boat onto the trailer and everything. And I'm pretty miserable experience for them and and bummer for us too to a certain extent. Like we had to we we had to step away from what we were doing that we were actually getting into the fish right when right when they called and And so, but the funny thing is, is that two hour tow was a blast because during that time we were like throwing we were throwing I can't remember what we were throwing, we were throwing snacks back and forth to each other to the other boat and and like my kids were all all getting into it and stuff like that. And so like but it's a memory because it went wrong. Like it's just it it's a bummer, but it was a great time looking back. Aaron Brooker: W Yeah. Yeah, you could have caught you could have caught some bigger fish, possibly, Seth Stoker: Sure. Aaron Brooker: and you missed out on that. But how many times have you told this story? How how many you know, how how about your kids who gotta see what it looks like to help out a friend? Like those are the types of things that it, you know, as long as you're just away with with time that's like earmarked for this, it's gonna work out just fine. Seth Stoker: Yep. Well I I try to ask this of every dad that's on the podcast, Aaron, but let's say fifty years from now, your kids are asked about your legacy. You know, the the same thing you talk about your your father writing letters to you. What do you hope your kids think of when they think of your legacy as a father? Aaron Brooker: Seth, I I I feel like they're going to say dad was thoughtful, right? Like just because we we had the newsletter a couple years ago, we're doing these podcasts, we're writing things out, we're we are structuring things in a thoughtful way. So so I feel like people who maybe don't even know me that well are gonna say, Man, he he's a really thoughtful dad. But what I w want them to say fi fifty years from now Is how much dad loved us for who we are. I I want them to say dad put others in front of himself, he apologized often, he forgave fast, he was patient, and he loved us. And and those are the things that I really want them to look back fift fifty years from now and and identify. Seth Stoker: Why? Aaron Brooker: My my heart for them is is to be shaped by grace and and forgiveness, just because that's transformed my life in in a radical way. And so to model that as best as I can h hopefully just points them to more truth as they become adults and they start to ask questions about the world and what does creation order look like and and where is my place and my purpose in this world. And so and so I want that to be shaped by by Christ and forgiveness. And so that is my hope 50 years from now, is is that that the actions of like I said, patience and forgiveness point point them towards the ultimate source of those things. Seth Stoker: Aaron, I think that's a excellent place to to end it. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today. I think there's a lot that that new, old, and and in-between dads can take away from this conversation. So really appreciate you joining us today. Aaron Brooker: Well, Seth, thank you for creating a little forum to express it. You know, even just talking through with this with you, like it takes practice to be able to explain these things and verbalize it. And so to the guys out there listening, like, do it yourself. You know, like I I fumbled through the way I wanted to explain some of these things, just kind of thinking about it, but that's because we don't say it out loud all day, every day. And so get a chance, get a mentor, get another guy, friend, and talk through some of these things out loud. And I think it makes a big difference. Seth Stoker: Absolutely. Thank you, Eric. Aaron Brooker: All right. Thanks, Seth. See ya. Seth Stoker: That's it for today's episode of the Dadical Podcast. Thanks so much for listening. And also, huge thanks to Aaron for joining the podcast and sharing his wisdom with us. I want to make sure that you give him a follow. Go listen to the Adad podcast, or you can follow him on TikTok at atta d A D. At Adadad, he puts out some great content, and there's some great options for you to go in there and actually download some of the materials that he referenced on the show. new episodes are going to drop every Wednesday, and I've got some great guests that I'm excited to introduce you to. If you know a dad who would benefit from these stories, go ahead and give this podcast a share. Like, subscribe, leave a comment. Let's get this out to as many dads as possible. And as always, don't sleepwalk through fatherhood. Be dadical.