Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Twitch-y Women

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Twitch-y Women · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Andy and Samantha, and welcome to Stephane.
0:07
Speaker 1: Never told your protection of iHeart Radio. And today we
0:19
Speaker 1: are continuing are just real slew of technology. So I
0:25
Speaker 1: guess we're having a technology mini series and I think
0:27
Speaker 1: that's what we just call it. We really are, and
0:30
Speaker 1: we have a lot more planned um which I've had.
0:33
Speaker 1: I've had a good time researching. I mean, there's a
0:36
Speaker 1: lot of not great things we're talking about, but I
0:40
Speaker 1: don't know. A lot of this is sort of new
0:42
Speaker 1: to me, and I'm fascinated with the technology behind it.
0:45
Speaker 1: And today we're talking about Twitch, which I have a
0:48
Speaker 1: very little experience with. What about you, Samantha, I have
0:53
Speaker 1: zero I have zero zero zero, at least with the
0:56
Speaker 1: Reddit episode, I knew I've read it and it's like
0:59
Speaker 1: I've read post from it, so I can click things,
1:02
Speaker 1: people will show me things from it. Would I know
1:05
Speaker 1: of Twitch? Can I give you my definite, my my
1:08
Speaker 1: understanding of Twitch and then see how badly I mucked
1:12
Speaker 1: this up. Essentially is a live streaming service for gamers
1:19
Speaker 1: who get to cut like have a community, and in
1:22
Speaker 1: that community can build a large following that can make
1:26
Speaker 1: money and if you're big enough you may be a
1:29
Speaker 1: star and you have these things. Apparently they were I
1:32
Speaker 1: think featured on the Ryan Reynolds movie Free City a
1:36
Speaker 1: few of the larger streamers. Larger streamers, um if you
1:40
Speaker 1: look at some of the the cameo, so I'm assuming
1:44
Speaker 1: they're from twitch, I understand it's any game, but typically
1:48
Speaker 1: more from streaming like PCs. Yeah, well, I'll give you
1:55
Speaker 1: a solid on that one, but I really passing. I
2:01
Speaker 1: don't give you a C plus. How about okay, thank you,
2:05
Speaker 1: and maybe it's higher. We'll see, but we'll go through
2:08
Speaker 1: together and you can fight me at the end if
2:10
Speaker 1: you want. I'm taking my sea and running. That's also
2:16
Speaker 1: a legitimate reaction. I think you've mostly got it though.
2:19
Speaker 1: I think you've got the very basic understanding of what
2:23
Speaker 1: it is. And all, by the way, apparently my nephew
2:27
Speaker 1: is somewhat has a large large ish following, not huge,
2:32
Speaker 1: but hasn't been en to fall in that. I'm not
2:33
Speaker 1: really okay. I thought about doing it, and you've heard
2:38
Speaker 1: my my I keep wanting to say scheme. It's not
2:41
Speaker 1: a scheme, but I was gonna like play the last
2:44
Speaker 1: of Us and just do that. It maybe makes some
2:47
Speaker 1: money off of it because I'm just so good at it. Now,
2:53
Speaker 1: that's the funny part. I think I've had like five
2:56
Speaker 1: for Quiz and I know that's like not a lot,
2:59
Speaker 1: but it is for on specific game that's like constantly
3:03
Speaker 1: less of what endeavor, if not more. And I but
3:08
Speaker 1: that's the other thing is I can customize it. I
3:09
Speaker 1: always ask like do you want like just the storyline
3:12
Speaker 1: or do you want me to take time and read
3:14
Speaker 1: the notes? Like how much do you want? So I
3:16
Speaker 1: could really do it now, I could offer like a
3:19
Speaker 1: lot of experiences. I don't know that that's exactly how
3:24
Speaker 1: Twitch verks either, to be honest, but that what you
3:27
Speaker 1: said was my basic understanding of it as well. Hilariously enough,
3:31
Speaker 1: I have another fan fiction connection with this one because,
3:34
Speaker 1: as I said in the Reddit one and it is
3:36
Speaker 1: a popular trope to feature technology from our modern day
3:40
Speaker 1: and these fan fictions. And there is one about Twitch
3:43
Speaker 1: that I very very much enjoy. It's super cute. Um,
3:47
Speaker 1: they're like too very popular Twitch streamers and then they
3:49
Speaker 1: fall in love. What Okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did
3:53
Speaker 1: want to put the date on this one just because
3:55
Speaker 1: we are talking about an ongoing story and I had
3:58
Speaker 1: to check the date um it is November three. Uh,
4:03
Speaker 1: just because yeah, some of these things we're going to
4:05
Speaker 1: talk about might have changed by the time this comes out. Um.
4:08
Speaker 1: And also, uh, this has kind of become a two
4:11
Speaker 1: parter because as much as Samantha and I don't know
4:14
Speaker 1: about Twitch, we do have a listener in front of
4:17
Speaker 1: the show, Jamie Summers, who does know a lot about Twitch,
4:22
Speaker 1: and uh it is streaming a lot. And uh we
4:26
Speaker 1: we reached out to Jamie asked if she'd be willing
4:29
Speaker 1: to talk to us about it, and she was awesome.
4:32
Speaker 1: She she did and that became a much larger conversation.
4:36
Speaker 1: So it's going to be its own episode. Oh yeah,
4:39
Speaker 1: of course we had a great time. Um. But yeah,
4:42
Speaker 1: look out for that look out. I'm always I'm always hesitant.
4:46
Speaker 1: Is it lookout or listen out? It's both. It's coming
4:49
Speaker 1: Uh an interview with Jamie Summers about what it's like
4:52
Speaker 1: to be on Twitch that will be coming up next.
4:54
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm excited. M hm sta. That's my contribution. Yes,
5:00
Speaker 1: and I hope Jamie, we don't want you down because
5:02
Speaker 1: it's always interesting when you're talking about a topic where
5:05
Speaker 1: mostly you're depending on the research that you find. Um.
5:09
Speaker 1: To talk about it. So hopefully we have done it well,
5:14
Speaker 1: but you can let us know if we did it all. Right.
5:17
Speaker 1: So we're not going to get too in depth here
5:20
Speaker 1: about the kind of history of twitch, but let's we're
5:25
Speaker 1: gonna start with some basics. So Twitches a live video
5:28
Speaker 1: streaming service based out of the US, created by Justin
5:31
Speaker 1: kahn Um. It was launched in June eleven, and that
5:35
Speaker 1: was not his first venture in the technology realm. He
5:38
Speaker 1: had previously founded accompany him and a few others that
5:41
Speaker 1: offered an online calendar similar to what Google Calendar is
5:45
Speaker 1: now um, but it wasn't profitable, so con and the
5:49
Speaker 1: other founders sold it on eBay for about two hundred
5:52
Speaker 1: and sixty thousand dollars. Mmm uh. They used that money
5:57
Speaker 1: to make Justin TV in two thousand five, with the
6:01
Speaker 1: goal of streaming whatever was going on in their lives
6:03
Speaker 1: like Big Brothers style, essentially just broadcasting your life. And
6:08
Speaker 1: since this wasn't two thousand five, people were primed to
6:12
Speaker 1: eat it up because this is when webcams were becoming
6:15
Speaker 1: more affordable and they were all the rage, and the
6:17
Speaker 1: cost of the Internet was coming down and it was
6:20
Speaker 1: becoming more accessible in most places, not all the places,
6:24
Speaker 1: but most places beginning of many horror movies, Tony, but
6:27
Speaker 1: he didn't add that any So first the service guarded
6:32
Speaker 1: a mixed response, which even just hearing it that way
6:35
Speaker 1: basically huh, yeah, this is a good idea. Also naming
6:39
Speaker 1: it after yourself, that's interesting. A lot of people were
6:42
Speaker 1: annoyed by the reality TV I expect of it to them,
6:48
Speaker 1: but they were curious if it could be used for
6:51
Speaker 1: different applications, and the platform wasn't without issues then either,
6:55
Speaker 1: and some users were the target of the precursors of swatting,
7:00
Speaker 1: which I think we've talked about before, when the police
7:02
Speaker 1: raided apartments after pranks implied a shooting or stabbing had
7:06
Speaker 1: taken place. They are and eventually, yes, people got murdered.
7:10
Speaker 1: Khan himself was the victim of one in two thousand
7:13
Speaker 1: seven and still goes on today. We're going to talk
7:15
Speaker 1: about that. Another issue. While things were easier than they
7:19
Speaker 1: had been on the technology side, live streaming still required
7:22
Speaker 1: a technical know how. Not everyone had in this like
7:25
Speaker 1: early these earlier days, and equipment like microphones, webcams, and
7:29
Speaker 1: specific software like getting all those things to work. Because
7:32
Speaker 1: of this, one of the first people hired for Justin
7:34
Speaker 1: TV was a specialist in video games streaming, and from
7:39
Speaker 1: what I gathered, he kind of just helped people set
7:41
Speaker 1: up their video game streams. Was this whole po he
7:45
Speaker 1: was part of the geek squad before the geek squatted.
7:50
Speaker 1: Kind of sounds like okay, And that is what solidified
7:54
Speaker 1: twitches future as a video game streaming platform specifically, perhaps
7:58
Speaker 1: because they have this person going around who is a
8:01
Speaker 1: video game streaming specialists helping people set up video game streams.
8:05
Speaker 1: But even though that is a lot of what it
8:07
Speaker 1: does and a lot of what people perceive it as,
8:10
Speaker 1: that is not the only thing that it does at all. Um.
8:13
Speaker 1: There have been streams of things like San Diego Comic Con,
8:16
Speaker 1: an event around Bob Ross. I saw that huge Yes, yes, um,
8:21
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. On top of that, there are
8:25
Speaker 1: video games and certain content that are banned from streaming,
8:28
Speaker 1: which is the source of a lot of arguing and contention.
8:32
Speaker 1: This is also why I get confused by these platforms,
8:35
Speaker 1: because't like, wait, this is one thing, but it's not
8:37
Speaker 1: this one thing. Well, that's a lot of the issue
8:39
Speaker 1: that Twitch has had, and we're going to get into
8:41
Speaker 1: that specifically, But Yeah, the platform quickly rose in popularity
8:46
Speaker 1: in part because it was fairly easy to use UH
8:49
Speaker 1: and it had a lot of tools that were available
8:51
Speaker 1: for free. People in general were becoming more comfortable around
8:55
Speaker 1: using the internet and technology. Twitch was acquired by Amazon
9:00
Speaker 1: or nine D seventy million dollars UH. These days, fifty
9:07
Speaker 1: five million or more tune in to watch video game
9:09
Speaker 1: streams on Twitch, and it is up there with Netflix, Google,
9:13
Speaker 1: and Apple for Internet traffic. Again that numbers from Feen,
9:17
Speaker 1: although I would bet it's gone up during the pandemic.
9:21
Speaker 1: A Twitch was getting over one hundred million views per
9:25
Speaker 1: month UH and over a fifth of Twitch users spend
9:28
Speaker 1: around twenty hours a week watching video content on Twitch.
9:31
Speaker 1: Newer numbers from indicate that the platform hosted three million
9:36
Speaker 1: broadcasters and fifteen million daily users. So yeah, it did
9:40
Speaker 1: see a serge during the pandemic. For some creators, it's
9:44
Speaker 1: a it's a money maker too, with some making upwards
9:47
Speaker 1: of one hundred thousand dollars or more a year. I've
9:49
Speaker 1: seen it like way higher, right, And then they have
9:52
Speaker 1: these whole things where people can contribute, like they give
9:55
Speaker 1: options during the live streams to give money. That's a
9:58
Speaker 1: interesting take. On it. Yes, so based on my fan fiction,
10:05
Speaker 1: which I'm going to assume somewhat correct starting this way. Okay, Yes,
10:12
Speaker 1: that sometimes you can pay, like depending on how big
10:16
Speaker 1: the streamer is a certain amount of money and they'll
10:19
Speaker 1: read your comments there. Yes, yes, that's true. I have
10:23
Speaker 1: seen that, like if you do certain contributions, they'll do
10:26
Speaker 1: certain things. Um. I know Jamie is going to talk
10:29
Speaker 1: about it up in our interview, but I know people
10:32
Speaker 1: do like specific fundraisers where they'll do a character, they'll
10:35
Speaker 1: do a request that you want from This is perfect
10:38
Speaker 1: for your last of us. Oh my gosh, I could
10:41
Speaker 1: make it a fundraiser. Yeah, I'm just saying this is perfect.
10:46
Speaker 1: What are you raising funds for? I have to think
10:49
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, okay, gosh, okay, okay, we're going to
10:53
Speaker 1: talk about that in just a second. Um. So this
10:57
Speaker 1: is also around the time that justin TV was rebranded
10:59
Speaker 1: as which Interactive. A crowdsource attempt to play Pokemon red
11:04
Speaker 1: went viral on the platform, and it was hailed as
11:07
Speaker 1: an example of the transformative works of players around video
11:10
Speaker 1: games and how video games could be not only entertainment
11:14
Speaker 1: but also possibly a sport but also possibly like when
11:16
Speaker 1: I say entertainment. They are entertainment, but entertainment for people
11:19
Speaker 1: watching them and commenting on them and interacting around them,
11:23
Speaker 1: Like this whole community is getting entertainment around this playing
11:27
Speaker 1: of a game. Yeah, so force. Twitch has not been
11:31
Speaker 1: without its problems, especially around streamers from marginalized communities. I
11:35
Speaker 1: know we've spoken about this previously. As part of that,
11:38
Speaker 1: Twitch introduced the Safety Advisory Council in May of which
11:43
Speaker 1: is concerning that it took that long, but that's a
11:44
Speaker 1: whole different conversation. A group of streamers, researchers, and people
11:48
Speaker 1: from think tanks with the goal of coming up with
11:51
Speaker 1: guidelines to protect marginalized folks from abuse on the platform.
11:56
Speaker 1: They announced three fifty new tags, many of them around
12:00
Speaker 1: things like gender identity, sexual orientation, and disability. To create
12:04
Speaker 1: these tags, and they consulted with organizations and groups like
12:08
Speaker 1: Trevor Projects, glad Able Gamers, and Special Effect. Yes, and
12:11
Speaker 1: Jamie is going to talk about that in our interview.
12:14
Speaker 1: These tags. Yeah, um, so, yeah, let's talk about Twitch
12:18
Speaker 1: and women specifically, because Twitch is a space largely dominated
12:22
Speaker 1: by men no surprise, according to Kataku quote, but the
12:26
Speaker 1: highest ranking female streamers are far further down the list
12:30
Speaker 1: starting with a valerie streamer Pokemon at thirty ninth place,
12:34
Speaker 1: cosplayer amaranths at forty eight, and music streamer Santika at
12:38
Speaker 1: seventy feet. Excluding streams that are run by multiple people,
12:41
Speaker 1: such as Critical Role, there are no women in the
12:44
Speaker 1: top third of top earning Twitch content creators. In spite
12:49
Speaker 1: of the complaints about the quote hot toab meta titty streamers,
12:54
Speaker 1: um and how some male streamers perceive that female streamers
12:57
Speaker 1: are stealing views from men. Uh, the numbers shows that
13:00
Speaker 1: only a small percentage of women are among the ranks
13:02
Speaker 1: of the twitches highest earning content creators. Um. Yeah, I
13:06
Speaker 1: know we're gonna talk a little bit about that. When
13:08
Speaker 1: it comes to users. The Tea stuff found in twenty
13:11
Speaker 1: that quote distribution of Twitch users in the United States
13:14
Speaker 1: as a second quarter was sent male and twenty five
13:18
Speaker 1: percent female. Um. And here's another quote. According to the figures,
13:22
Speaker 1: twitches top earning streamers are overwhelmingly male. The top spot
13:26
Speaker 1: is occupied by Table Top Role Playing Collective with around
13:30
Speaker 1: nine point six million in income. I'm guessing that's the
13:33
Speaker 1: Critical Role probably, I would think so. I know it's popular.
13:36
Speaker 1: I've seen them. I've seen them that's huge, followed by
13:40
Speaker 1: a male overwatch streamer at around eight point four million million. Y'all.
13:46
Speaker 1: These supposed figures do not account for sponsorships and other
13:49
Speaker 1: methods through which streamers typically earn revenue, and not on
13:53
Speaker 1: the flip side, they put it on other social media,
13:56
Speaker 1: like you're saying, because I know critical role as a
13:58
Speaker 1: D and D thing on TikTok and they have a
14:01
Speaker 1: lot of high views on that's what they're monetizing off
14:03
Speaker 1: of that as well. Yeah, yeah, so, I, like I said,
14:07
Speaker 1: when we read that other number that was still high
14:09
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand. Yeah, I mean when we're looking at this,
14:12
Speaker 1: that is a million, huge difference. Millions, y'all. Millions. And yeah,
14:32
Speaker 1: just before we getting this next section kind of similar
14:34
Speaker 1: to the Reddit thing. We're not going to talk to
14:36
Speaker 1: in depth about anything, but we are talking about some
14:38
Speaker 1: grossness on the internet, some harassment, some abuse, So just
14:43
Speaker 1: to put that out there because there is a lot
14:46
Speaker 1: of that going on um here. So I did want
14:50
Speaker 1: to go back to those terms hot tub meta and
14:52
Speaker 1: titty streamers because I didn't know what they meant, although
14:54
Speaker 1: I had a great for one of them. Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay,
14:58
Speaker 1: So the war of women's attire on Twitch has been
15:02
Speaker 1: around since the start. It's something that we see pretty
15:04
Speaker 1: much everywhere where there are women. UM. Many comments on
15:08
Speaker 1: women's streams, especially from men, focus on looks and ability.
15:13
Speaker 1: The first Google result I got when I typed in
15:16
Speaker 1: women on Twitch was hot women on Twitch kind of
15:20
Speaker 1: corrected and I was like, wow, Okay. Women who emphasize
15:25
Speaker 1: their sexuality and body, and even those that don't are
15:28
Speaker 1: often labeled titty streamers are booby streamers. Um. And there's
15:33
Speaker 1: sort of this like almost conspiracy theory that they have
15:36
Speaker 1: a so called business model of dressing up, wearing makeup
15:39
Speaker 1: and maybe I push up bra for people to compliment
15:41
Speaker 1: on our insult like that. There's that's their whole purpose.
15:44
Speaker 1: The vibe is generally that they are asking for this
15:47
Speaker 1: type of harassment and if they don't like it, they
15:50
Speaker 1: can leave. Here's an example tweet. If she doesn't like
15:53
Speaker 1: the fact that someone is talking about her, she can
15:55
Speaker 1: just quit. By the way, she deserves all of it.
15:59
Speaker 1: Here's another one. This girl really thinks people come in
16:02
Speaker 1: not to look at her looks. I mean, you're not
16:04
Speaker 1: useful for anything else. Um. A streamer once ranted about
16:08
Speaker 1: quote sluts that are coming into our community, taking the money,
16:12
Speaker 1: taking the subs. Twitch suspended him um. The most devoted
16:16
Speaker 1: thread on the subreddit live stream fail is women walks
16:20
Speaker 1: around in costumes, sells her nudes on YouTube, and claims
16:23
Speaker 1: that she is an objectified female. Because of this kind
16:27
Speaker 1: of attitude, many women have reported feeling pressured to dress
16:30
Speaker 1: a certain way. Sexualized are completely desexualized, So either you
16:33
Speaker 1: have to They feel like they have to either play
16:35
Speaker 1: it up or just where hoodies All the time. I've
16:38
Speaker 1: heard many women talking about the fact that just online
16:41
Speaker 1: gaming in itself, but also streaming that they will like
16:43
Speaker 1: disguise their voice or won't talk and then dual revel.
16:47
Speaker 1: And when they revel happens, they immediately the first comment
16:50
Speaker 1: and Jamie says it later on, is go back to
16:53
Speaker 1: the kitchen and make me a sandwich. Is that? Is
16:56
Speaker 1: that a online game immediate? Like in soul thing, it
17:01
Speaker 1: has to be that before you can do other creative insults.
17:04
Speaker 1: Not that you need to be creative, but you know
17:05
Speaker 1: what I mean, right right? Kid? Like that line seems
17:10
Speaker 1: to follow all these immature gamers as the first thing
17:16
Speaker 1: that they say and then like talking about trying to
17:19
Speaker 1: pull them out, and a lot of the times, the
17:20
Speaker 1: ones that I've seen, uh again, they come on TikTok, y'all,
17:24
Speaker 1: I do not this is my my realm apparently is
17:28
Speaker 1: oftentimes like these ladies are better than them non bine afros,
17:32
Speaker 1: and then they get so mad and then they have
17:35
Speaker 1: to be like pushed away. I did see one that
17:37
Speaker 1: was super cute where the two discovered I think there
17:39
Speaker 1: was like four of them. Two of the discovered they
17:40
Speaker 1: were both women and they're like and they were they
17:43
Speaker 1: were the best on the team, and the way they
17:44
Speaker 1: were like loving each other. I did love that moment.
17:47
Speaker 1: There's kind of a famous instance of that. We talked
17:49
Speaker 1: about it in our Women in Internet Gaming episode where
17:52
Speaker 1: it was eight women and yeah it's not World of
17:55
Speaker 1: four Craft, but it's a popular online game and they
17:57
Speaker 1: were all using gender neutral names and avatires and they
18:01
Speaker 1: all found out they were women at the and they
18:04
Speaker 1: were like the best of the best. I love it,
18:06
Speaker 1: but I mean I did see a recent thing about
18:08
Speaker 1: that where the numbers is still I think it's like
18:11
Speaker 1: women still use a gender neutral name in avatar because
18:15
Speaker 1: they don't feel safe and they've perceived so much harassment
18:18
Speaker 1: and the harassment numbers are so high. But on the
18:20
Speaker 1: flip side, there's also I read a lot of articles
18:22
Speaker 1: about trans people and feeling like they can be there
18:26
Speaker 1: theirselves in a way they don't feel like they can
18:28
Speaker 1: offline using that. Yeah, so there's a lot to break
18:32
Speaker 1: down there. But yeah, and a part of this whole
18:36
Speaker 1: thing is that stereotype that we've talked about before that
18:39
Speaker 1: women and these women in particular on Twitch aren't quote,
18:43
Speaker 1: real gamers. And this whole thing got worse when Twitch
18:46
Speaker 1: added the I r L category and for non gaming activities,
18:52
Speaker 1: and a lot of these dudes saying these things thought, great,
18:54
Speaker 1: you know, not all these fake gamer women can leave
18:57
Speaker 1: and get male attention elsewhere because that's all that they want.
19:00
Speaker 1: But that is not really what happened, of course. And
19:03
Speaker 1: on top of that, when women started making money in
19:06
Speaker 1: the I r L category, there was a sudden outcry
19:09
Speaker 1: about these terrible women making money off the kids, the kids.
19:17
Speaker 1: To that end, in seventeen, Twitch sold some women streamers
19:22
Speaker 1: that they couldn't advertise their Patreon accounts on their channels.
19:26
Speaker 1: It wasn't very transparent at all about why, Yeah, that
19:31
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me, How do you not. Yeah, yeah,
19:35
Speaker 1: well allow, how do you gate keep that? I mean again,
19:39
Speaker 1: I know, as we're talking about hot up women as
19:42
Speaker 1: they were titled. I was introduced to this during a
19:44
Speaker 1: couple of years ago because I was very confused about
19:46
Speaker 1: what twitch was. I didn't know what this was until
19:48
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. I didn't know it existed.
19:51
Speaker 1: I assumed it was something like Reddit. This is where
19:54
Speaker 1: I am in life pageant understanding what it was, and
19:57
Speaker 1: I was very confused. I was like gaming, okay, okay,
19:59
Speaker 1: and and having women who would sit in kiddie pools. Um,
20:04
Speaker 1: this is what I saw while gaping, and I was like,
20:08
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get what's happening, and essentially people commenting,
20:12
Speaker 1: and she didn't seem to acknowledge. And I think it
20:16
Speaker 1: was again Amaroth, who has been in the spotlight in
20:18
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks, uh with some with some controversy.
20:23
Speaker 1: But I did not understand what was happening. But what
20:26
Speaker 1: I was told was that she was making a lot
20:27
Speaker 1: of money. But still it doesn't sound like making it
20:29
Speaker 1: too much money in comparison to again what she was
20:32
Speaker 1: in mid range in the in the statistics of who
20:36
Speaker 1: was making the most money. Um. But still I was
20:38
Speaker 1: very confused. I was like, but why, because I was
20:41
Speaker 1: again I don't understand all of this. Like I will
20:46
Speaker 1: watch you play games sometimes because I just want to
20:49
Speaker 1: hang out with you. I'll watch my partner play games
20:51
Speaker 1: sometimes because I just want to hang out with them,
20:53
Speaker 1: But I don't necessarily want to do that as an
20:58
Speaker 1: entertainment off my screen. I guess, as I say, this
21:00
Speaker 1: is not play phone games. Um. But yeah, there was
21:03
Speaker 1: a lot of like controversy conversations like continue to be
21:07
Speaker 1: mad and though I don't get it, I don't understand it.
21:10
Speaker 1: I'm also confused as to why people are mad instead
21:14
Speaker 1: of just going to a different channel. Oh yeah, well
21:18
Speaker 1: more on that in a second. But like as I
21:20
Speaker 1: said in the Reddit episode, a lot of this is
21:24
Speaker 1: kind of we're jumping around a bit. But Amaranth was
21:26
Speaker 1: one of the ones who um was penalized by She's
21:29
Speaker 1: been penalized by twitish several times without like clearer reason,
21:33
Speaker 1: and that's happened to a lot of women. Um okay,
21:36
Speaker 1: but yeah, since you brought it up and I didn't
21:39
Speaker 1: know what it was, talk about hot tub meta Um okay,
21:43
Speaker 1: So women streaming and bikinis or bathing suits. It wasn't
21:47
Speaker 1: necessarily new, but it really blew up in which is
21:51
Speaker 1: kind of an accidental pun or when people started buying
21:53
Speaker 1: easier and more accessible blow up hot tubs. And you
21:56
Speaker 1: can actually find a lot of breakdown in the history
21:58
Speaker 1: of this if you would like to learn more. In
22:01
Speaker 1: several streamers on Twitch started broadcasting in their bathing suits
22:04
Speaker 1: from hot tubs, and these streams drew so much ire
22:08
Speaker 1: claims that they were using on loophole and twitches policies
22:11
Speaker 1: and again oh children. In response, Twitter band are demonetized
22:17
Speaker 1: some of the channels doing this, claiming that they were
22:19
Speaker 1: not advertiser friendly. Um. And this wasn't the most popular
22:24
Speaker 1: move so Twitch released a whole article about it to
22:27
Speaker 1: clarify that they weren't discriminating against women, but they were
22:31
Speaker 1: cracking down on quote, sexually suggestive content. But it also
22:35
Speaker 1: came up this line being found to be sexy by
22:38
Speaker 1: others is not against our rules, and Twitch will not
22:40
Speaker 1: take enforcement action against women or anyone on our service
22:44
Speaker 1: for their perceived attractiveness. So like not, it's not fitting together.
22:50
Speaker 1: What they're saying is not mashing um And somebody made
22:55
Speaker 1: the great point of like you can be sexy but
22:57
Speaker 1: not sexual, like there's a there's a break down anyway.
23:00
Speaker 1: They later penalized yoga videos Twitch did under the same umbrella,
23:04
Speaker 1: and a lot argue that they, as I said, are
23:06
Speaker 1: not transparent or consistent with enforcement of their guidelines, and
23:10
Speaker 1: eventually Twitch went on to add a category for hot
23:13
Speaker 1: tub streams so advertisers could opt out of that if
23:16
Speaker 1: they wanted. This same year, after raids against streamers of
23:19
Speaker 1: color and queer streamers started happening, a lot of the
23:23
Speaker 1: hashtag twitched you better started trending. Others have expressed annoyance
23:27
Speaker 1: at the idea that women quote have it easy on
23:30
Speaker 1: Twitch because of sex appeal and or this sort of
23:34
Speaker 1: Madonna horde dichotomy that women would either get lewd comments
23:38
Speaker 1: or backhanded compliments about, Oh, you're a lady, but I
23:42
Speaker 1: actually like your work outside of your appearance. It's not
23:48
Speaker 1: just your looks. I'm here for Many articles I found
23:52
Speaker 1: written by women in the space have spoken about how
23:54
Speaker 1: they feel they're pitted against other women streamers and how
23:58
Speaker 1: they often face questions about their gaming credentials. There's also
24:03
Speaker 1: a lot of complicated feelings women have expressed about how
24:06
Speaker 1: hot tub meta has essentially exacerbated sexualization for other women
24:10
Speaker 1: streamers and altered expectations. Others point out the fact that
24:15
Speaker 1: all of these cries about the children and advertisers unwilling
24:19
Speaker 1: to advertise hot tub meta, which is often just people
24:23
Speaker 1: talking in hot tubs like with friends, maybe shows just
24:26
Speaker 1: how much we sexualize women's bodies. That that's immediately like,
24:30
Speaker 1: oh god, it's pornography, which is how they're essentially treating it,
24:34
Speaker 1: and which is funny because the amount of violence and
24:36
Speaker 1: these video games that I've seen, I'm like, but we're
24:39
Speaker 1: not talking about that for children, children, Like yeah, what, Yeah,
24:44
Speaker 1: they had no problem until women started making money in
24:47
Speaker 1: these spaces, and they're like right, and again, still not
24:50
Speaker 1: the top tier. Definitely didn't even crack the top twenty.
24:52
Speaker 1: What uh what a interesting difference a lot of people
24:56
Speaker 1: pointed out is that women creators often have on more
25:00
Speaker 1: personal connection with their fans are the people watching, and
25:03
Speaker 1: that sometimes those fans, who sometimes are largely women, get
25:07
Speaker 1: so discouraged by the toxic comments that they see of
25:10
Speaker 1: this person that they like that they leave the platform altogether. Yeah. Yeah,
25:16
Speaker 1: so many women and marginalized creators are quote chosen and
25:21
Speaker 1: we're putting that in close by in cell groups to
25:24
Speaker 1: harass on Twitch and we know how that can go.
25:27
Speaker 1: Reddit groups, mostly composed of men, claim to have naked
25:30
Speaker 1: photos of women streamers and will slow down clips and
25:33
Speaker 1: brag about how often UH they masturbate to them while
25:37
Speaker 1: often discussing in disturbing detail what they do to the
25:40
Speaker 1: women in question their body and digitally inserting them into
25:44
Speaker 1: porn um. Many women streamers and know what it is
25:47
Speaker 1: to have obsessive male viewers who will do these kinds
25:49
Speaker 1: of things. And this is after many women have put
25:51
Speaker 1: so much work and just trying to make money UH
25:55
Speaker 1: doing what they like streaming games just like anybody else.
25:59
Speaker 1: And people, mostly women, have reported vile harassment and even
26:03
Speaker 1: physical threats, and have sounded the alarm around the fact
26:06
Speaker 1: that Twitch hasn't really faced the me too movement like
26:09
Speaker 1: other industries have. Many have reported toxic situations only to
26:13
Speaker 1: have their concerns ignored, which has been a big conversation
26:16
Speaker 1: for a minute. In twenty twenty, The New York Times
26:19
Speaker 1: cited a spreadsheet with over two hundred names called UH
26:22
Speaker 1: Survivor Stories of harassment, abuse, assault within the gaming live
26:27
Speaker 1: streaming industry. Yeah, and the threats are truly horrific, like
26:31
Speaker 1: things like, um, I have your dad tied up and
26:34
Speaker 1: I'll slit his throat if you don't show your boobs.
26:37
Speaker 1: One woman streamer found a whole network of men sexualizing
26:40
Speaker 1: her and shared her feelings of being sexualized against her will,
26:44
Speaker 1: where her male counterparts wouldn't be based on the content
26:47
Speaker 1: that they were producing, like producing pretty much the same
26:49
Speaker 1: thing writing this type of continent. You're getting missed your
26:52
Speaker 1: comment right, um and in A man out of San
26:56
Speaker 1: Francisco filed a twenty five million dollar lawsuit against Twitch
27:01
Speaker 1: because hot female gamers on Twitch led him to so
27:05
Speaker 1: much masturbation he hurt his penis. Has there ever been
27:09
Speaker 1: a suit against porn industry for that, because that's ridiculous.
27:13
Speaker 1: The pictures featured in the suit, which were dismissed by
27:15
Speaker 1: the way, were actually innocuous, like being in a wedding
27:20
Speaker 1: gown or a bathing suit or bending over um. The
27:25
Speaker 1: laws of further claimed women coulde are only streaming with
27:28
Speaker 1: the sole purpose of taking advantage of sexually addicted viewers
27:34
Speaker 1: who are enticed to spend money on these women for
27:37
Speaker 1: attention and sexual innu window I love how this is
27:40
Speaker 1: all blamed on that and not the actual adults, like
27:45
Speaker 1: who should be held responsible for themselves. But hey, that's
27:49
Speaker 1: too much to ask for, I know. And by the way,
27:51
Speaker 1: that that hot female gamers, that's an actual quote. That's
27:56
Speaker 1: that's not using that's no no, oh my gosh, oh
28:00
Speaker 1: my gosh. So yes, Now we need to touch on
28:15
Speaker 1: the recent and ongoing allegations from streamer Caitlin m Ranth
28:19
Speaker 1: Sia Goosa, one of the most popular and controversial streamers,
28:23
Speaker 1: and someone often bemoaned as the exemplification of all of
28:28
Speaker 1: these things wrong with Twitch according to these mostly men,
28:32
Speaker 1: but not all, not all men, because some women very
28:35
Speaker 1: frustrated with her too. Um. Amaranth is a twitch I
28:38
Speaker 1: r L streamer who did streams where she did squats,
28:41
Speaker 1: she dressed up in cosplay, some of it was revealing
28:43
Speaker 1: she would dance things like that. Um, she did get
28:46
Speaker 1: into hot tub meta. There was and is a lot
28:49
Speaker 1: of conversation about her content, some in good faith and
28:52
Speaker 1: some and not good pay at all, about the problematic
28:55
Speaker 1: aspects of her and she's certainly done some things that
28:58
Speaker 1: are not a good look. Um. And we can't break
29:00
Speaker 1: all of that down today. But briefly, there are a
29:03
Speaker 1: lot of quotes from her that read very differently now
29:05
Speaker 1: about how she knew she was going to be sexualized,
29:08
Speaker 1: so she leaned into it. She was once banned for
29:10
Speaker 1: allegedly touching her breast on screen, and that was not
29:13
Speaker 1: the only time she was banned at all, and reportedly
29:15
Speaker 1: was so often swatted she was on the first name
29:18
Speaker 1: basis with local police. The reason I said that these
29:21
Speaker 1: things read differently now is that in a recent stream,
29:24
Speaker 1: she alleged that her husband was abusing her, threatening to
29:27
Speaker 1: kill her dogs. Um, that he controlled her finances and
29:31
Speaker 1: was forcing her to continue streaming. She also said he
29:35
Speaker 1: coerced her uh not to tell people she was married
29:38
Speaker 1: in order to make more money when streaming in the
29:41
Speaker 1: hot sub category. UM, so men would think like, oh,
29:45
Speaker 1: I have a chance to be with her. Essentially due
29:47
Speaker 1: to that, she has also faced her fair share of
29:50
Speaker 1: online harassment, including when YouTubers like Beautie Pie called her
29:54
Speaker 1: twitch thoughts, which is an insult used against both twitch
29:58
Speaker 1: users and sex worshers. Um and yeah, this whole thing
30:01
Speaker 1: is ongoing. Yeah, there's the whole thing. Because people men
30:04
Speaker 1: came out angry when she revealed that she was being abused,
30:08
Speaker 1: and like from what we gather, from what I've gathered,
30:12
Speaker 1: being alleging that her husband was forcing her to do
30:15
Speaker 1: the streams just for the money. Um, partially like at
30:19
Speaker 1: the beginning maybe with her consent, and then towards the
30:21
Speaker 1: end maybe not so much, leaking audio clips from conversations
30:25
Speaker 1: and such. And then men, instead of being like we're
30:28
Speaker 1: so sorry or not even talking, are now mad at
30:30
Speaker 1: her and harassing her for lying to them about being
30:34
Speaker 1: made And I'm like, I didn't think that was any
30:36
Speaker 1: of your business to begin with, Like why does that
30:38
Speaker 1: matter in general? But they feel genuinely wronged and have
30:44
Speaker 1: been coming after her. That's what I've seen as late. Um.
30:48
Speaker 1: Of course, there's all these concerns and people are coming
30:50
Speaker 1: to our defense because domestic violence is a huge conversation
30:54
Speaker 1: that needs to be had in general. But then that
30:57
Speaker 1: that's that's the reaction. Yeah, at the forefront is shocking.
31:02
Speaker 1: It was shocking for me, um, as well as the
31:04
Speaker 1: fact that I know the name Beauty Pie and I
31:06
Speaker 1: know that he's problematic times thirty from what I understand. Yeah, yeah, well,
31:13
Speaker 1: and I read a lot of articles for this and
31:15
Speaker 1: it was pretty painful. And strange to read the stuff
31:19
Speaker 1: written about her before this came out. But even before that,
31:23
Speaker 1: people were so suspicious that she had a husband. They
31:26
Speaker 1: were all like, oh, I think she's lying about that.
31:29
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the things that people
31:31
Speaker 1: hated about her when she came out was like, yeah,
31:34
Speaker 1: I haven't wanted to do some of this stuff and
31:37
Speaker 1: I do have a husband. And then they were instead
31:39
Speaker 1: of being like, oh, yeah, that's so sorry, they're like,
31:43
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, you lied about these fronts that they
31:45
Speaker 1: already didn't like. Yeah. Yeah. Because of all of these
31:51
Speaker 1: things we've been talking about, Twitch has updated their guidelines
31:54
Speaker 1: a few times, and some of them we've already talked about,
31:56
Speaker 1: like in declared that any content deemed us eateful would
32:00
Speaker 1: be suspended from their platform. Um, if you'll notice, as
32:03
Speaker 1: we do a bunch of these technology episodes, a lot
32:06
Speaker 1: of them happened the same year, and they're usually after
32:08
Speaker 1: like this was based on Donald Trump, uh stuff with Trump,
32:13
Speaker 1: which I find interesting, But these the same guidelines that
32:16
Speaker 1: they introduced these that year also muddied the water around
32:19
Speaker 1: sexual content that could be removed because again a lot
32:21
Speaker 1: of things they put out aren't very clear, not very
32:24
Speaker 1: transparent UM, several women who were streamers spoke out about
32:29
Speaker 1: harassment and abuse they'd experienced on the platform. Notably, thanks
32:33
Speaker 1: in part to the pandemic Yearship more than doubled that year.
32:37
Speaker 1: Twitch assured that they'd cooperate with the law, but many
32:40
Speaker 1: felt like they weren't doing enough, and June many users
32:44
Speaker 1: and streamers participated in a Twitch blackout day. Later that day,
32:49
Speaker 1: at Twitch put several bands in place of those that
32:51
Speaker 1: have been accused and promised to send details to law enforcement.
32:55
Speaker 1: A few days later, they put a temporary suspension on
32:58
Speaker 1: a Donald Trump campaign account, citing a violation of their
33:01
Speaker 1: rules around hateful content. A new policy around such content
33:05
Speaker 1: went into effect, specifically aiming to protect marginalized users that year.
33:10
Speaker 1: UM It also included things like a sliding scale of punishment,
33:13
Speaker 1: so a full out band was only one of the
33:16
Speaker 1: tools near arsenal. It included a ban on racist emotes
33:21
Speaker 1: that weren't specified at the time, and the Confederate flag.
33:24
Speaker 1: Words like in cell and virgin were labeled as harassment
33:27
Speaker 1: under the right conditions UM. Some words like simple cause, debate,
33:33
Speaker 1: and things like blind play through were later removed due
33:36
Speaker 1: to ablest connotations, so However, study found that Twitch was
33:42
Speaker 1: enabling far right extremists both financially and in terms of
33:46
Speaker 1: spreading their hateful rhetoric. Many have also raised concerns about
33:50
Speaker 1: double standards when it comes to gender, and here's a
33:53
Speaker 1: quote from game rant uh users. She had a Haiku,
33:56
Speaker 1: popular Twitch streamer with over twenty thousand followers, tweeted out
34:00
Speaker 1: the ability to title a stream I hate men, while
34:04
Speaker 1: the alternative I Hate women was struck down by Twitter's
34:07
Speaker 1: modern policy. In her latest dream, she highlighted that her
34:10
Speaker 1: intention with the tweet was to point out the humor
34:13
Speaker 1: behind the double standard. While Twitch streamers have been struck
34:16
Speaker 1: down for their sexist rants, she had wu was only
34:19
Speaker 1: taking a moment to laugh about the idea that streamers
34:22
Speaker 1: could voice their hatred towards one gender but not the other.
34:25
Speaker 1: That caused a lot of conversation, especially about miss conversations
34:29
Speaker 1: we could have have been having, and it led to
34:31
Speaker 1: Twitch updating their guidelines once again. I wonder if that
34:36
Speaker 1: I Hate men conversation would have been so much like
34:41
Speaker 1: we don't need men versus rape women, Like I don't
34:44
Speaker 1: see men as but I mean, I get it, But
34:49
Speaker 1: the level of vitriol feels like a little different. Yeah,
34:53
Speaker 1: it's it's also just an inherent gender power balance that
34:58
Speaker 1: we're talking about there. Yea, So a lot of that
34:59
Speaker 1: was a quote from gay Brant about it, and I
35:02
Speaker 1: think that that was sort of the point was we
35:05
Speaker 1: didn't have the conversation we should have had after this.
35:08
Speaker 1: Um I was more like men being mad that Twitch
35:11
Speaker 1: didn't take that down. There was a bigger and more
35:13
Speaker 1: nuanced conversation we could have been having. I thought so
35:16
Speaker 1: many things with the technology and social media, is that
35:19
Speaker 1: we are not having the actual root of the problem
35:22
Speaker 1: conversation and just putting small band aids. Because if we
35:26
Speaker 1: did that and we actually faced what was the problem,
35:30
Speaker 1: these platforms may lose a lot of money. Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep.
35:35
Speaker 1: And yeah, as we've talked about in so many of
35:37
Speaker 1: these episodes, many women have reported not feeling supported by
35:41
Speaker 1: Twitch when they raised their hand about something, asked for
35:45
Speaker 1: something hateful and pornographic to be removed, They're ignored and
35:48
Speaker 1: they feel like they're only recourse is to leave. Aren't
35:51
Speaker 1: get a new job if it's their job, because again,
35:54
Speaker 1: for some people, this is their livelihood and this is
35:58
Speaker 1: what they're dealing. But yeah, I uh, as we said
36:04
Speaker 1: and read it. We've we've been focusing on a lot
36:07
Speaker 1: of the negatives, but there are so many positives about
36:09
Speaker 1: twitch right and there is so much community that people
36:13
Speaker 1: have found and I've i mean, even in that goofy
36:17
Speaker 1: fan fiction, I was like, this is so cool that
36:19
Speaker 1: this exists. And I've heard friends who love it and
36:22
Speaker 1: they talk about that part. So it is. It is
36:25
Speaker 1: a place that can be really beautiful space for finding
36:28
Speaker 1: people and connecting. Um, but we do have all of
36:33
Speaker 1: these issues still that right did that we need to
36:36
Speaker 1: talk about and focus on. I think there's so much
36:40
Speaker 1: to be said with new platforms, and then when it
36:42
Speaker 1: kind of blends into not longer have been just that
36:45
Speaker 1: one little platform, so it's origination expands, like the I
36:48
Speaker 1: r L stuff and that you understand, there's lines being blurred.
36:53
Speaker 1: I am too much of a stickler and that is
36:55
Speaker 1: no longer this anymore, So why are we calling it this?
36:57
Speaker 1: This is all bleeding over again. I get everything from
36:59
Speaker 1: to talk, so like I get Twitch streams like clips
37:03
Speaker 1: that come over to TikTok um, So I'm very confused
37:06
Speaker 1: about what I'm watching half the time, but not understanding
37:09
Speaker 1: of that, it's not TikTok. Same thing with Instagram. I
37:12
Speaker 1: am having a hard time, but in general, like you
37:14
Speaker 1: you start wondering, you know, the purpose of it, and
37:17
Speaker 1: then what it does expand because the purpose of it
37:20
Speaker 1: begins to be about money, not about the community, and
37:23
Speaker 1: then you have people who bring it back to that
37:25
Speaker 1: community and it's nice to see. But there's just just
37:27
Speaker 1: like the variation of when it comes to technology is
37:30
Speaker 1: so vast, and it's growing so quickly. It doesn't seem
37:34
Speaker 1: like the individual platforms can keep up, and it's always
37:37
Speaker 1: a competition to be the next step up. That makes
37:40
Speaker 1: sense yea, yeah, And as we talked about with Bridget
37:43
Speaker 1: in our episode around her new podcast in Your Net
37:47
Speaker 1: Hate Machine, I think there's also like there are people
37:51
Speaker 1: marginalized communities on these platforms who love them and want
37:54
Speaker 1: to use them, and when they speak up about them
37:57
Speaker 1: are ignored. Like I feel like we're seeing that over
37:59
Speaker 1: and over again. Right, Hey, here's a problem, and then yeah, nothing.
38:05
Speaker 1: Something else we didn't really talk about we kind of
38:06
Speaker 1: touched on, but is a positive thing about Twitch is
38:10
Speaker 1: they do have a lot of streams that the company
38:13
Speaker 1: will match often that are charitable that are for charity,
38:17
Speaker 1: and that's something that Jamie is going to talk about
38:22
Speaker 1: in our upcoming interview we did with her, so look
38:27
Speaker 1: out for that. In the meantime, are there any streamers
38:31
Speaker 1: you recommend listeners? Are you on Twitch? What's your experience been?
38:36
Speaker 1: Please let us know. I would love to know. Yeah,
38:39
Speaker 1: I thought you were asking me and I was like,
38:40
Speaker 1: any did we not just go? I haven't been listening
38:43
Speaker 1: to you the entire times about the although there is
38:48
Speaker 1: someone from YouTube who has a Twitch channel that I
38:51
Speaker 1: do like, which is a Girlfriend Reviews, which is this
38:56
Speaker 1: play Together, and they are on Twitch and they do
38:58
Speaker 1: SPoD things. I like their content. I don't know what
39:00
Speaker 1: they looked like on Twitter, but I will recommend that.
39:02
Speaker 1: I know that we talked about that with the last
39:04
Speaker 1: of us. Do lots of trauma? Yes, yes, Well please
39:12
Speaker 1: let us know all of your recommendations and your experience.
39:14
Speaker 1: If you have any UH you can email us a
39:16
Speaker 1: stepping your mom stuff at I heart media dot com.
39:18
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom stuf, podcasts,
39:20
Speaker 1: or Instagram and stuff I've never told you. Thanks as
39:22
Speaker 1: always to our super producers, do know, thank you and
39:25
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening sho Nerturalise, production of I
39:27
Speaker 1: Heeart Radio. For more podcast on my heart Radio, you
39:29
Speaker 1: can check out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or
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Speaker 1: where you listen to your favorite shows,