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CLASSIC: That Time Irish Separatists Invaded Canada · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, have you heard of Canada? It's been
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: in the news a little bit lately. Yeah, practicing softball questions,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you guys. Yeah, man, yeah. I mean, I don't know.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I've never met a Canadian that I didn't like.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I wish I could say the same, man, honestly. Fair, fair, fair.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: To be honest, though, I haven't met that many Canadians,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: but they've all been very pleasant people. Yeah, yeah, I
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: agree with you.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We know that. Ireland as a culture has for a
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: long time been separated. There's Ireland, the nation, and then
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: there's Northern Ireland, which has been controlled by the United Kingdom.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: A lot of people want a unified Ireland. We're being
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: very diplomatic in how we describe that. But in 2019,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: we learned that once upon a time, people who wanted
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to reunify Ireland thought the best way to do it
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: was to invade Canada.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Man, I think Donald Trump must have listened to this
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: episode of ours back when it came out in July
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: of 2019.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: So who are these Finians? Folks, let's find out. Welcome
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to the show, ridiculous historians, and hello to you and
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: whatever neck of the global woods you find yourself today.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I got to tell you, this episode and this topic
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: for today's episode is calling up some memories for me
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: of a very strange weekend. There was one time where
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: circumstances found me in Dublin for like 26 hours.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: You do that from time to time, don't you, Ben?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Things happen, Noel.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Things happen. We were just before we went on the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: air asking our super producer, Casey Pegram, who is probably
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the most well-traveled of the three of us, if he
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: had ever been to Ireland. And Casey said, You said no, right?
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm the most traveled in terms
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: of countries visited or if I'm just the most frequently
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: traveled because I keep going to Paris every year. Because
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: I actually, I kind of made my tour of Europe
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: and then I just stayed in Paris after that. And
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: every time I get ready to go, I'm like, I
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: should see some more places. And then I'm just like, no,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm just going to stay here.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: What was amazing about Ireland, the very small amount of
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: time I spent there, was everybody had these amazing musical accents.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: And this might not seem like a big deal to
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of us listening in Europe or maybe Australia
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: or other places, but here in the US, North Americans,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and probably this includes Canadians as well, love the Irish accent.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I heard two guys getting into a street fight at
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: like two in the morning, and I thought they were
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: just being very kind to each other. One of them
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: was like, I'll be seeing you then. And the other
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: one said, oh, no, I'll be seeing you. Oh, you'll
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: be seeing me, will you? Oh, no, I'll be seeing you.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah. And this is the line the
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: guy used. He said, I'll see you very well.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: And I turned around. Oh, you'll see me very well.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I see you even better.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I turned around and the police force, LaGuardia, They're called
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: they were holding these guys back and one of them
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: had a bottle. He was like brandishing at the other one.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: It sounded like this very polite, maybe slightly drunken conversation
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: between friends. Right. Who are just trying to like one
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: up their bromance. But no, those guys were going to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: beat the tar out of each other.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: We've we've we've probably sounded that way to passers by before.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Slightly in our cups on the porch of the old local.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: This is the bar that we frequent. Yes, our local
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: bar is called The Local. It's very true. Great chicken wings.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Great chicken wings, really easy to remember. Ben, I want
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: to take an opportunity here at the top of the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: show real quick. Yeah. You and I had a very
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: interesting text exchange the other night where you mentioned the
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: fact that you had– an odd amount of pictures of
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: a mutual friend of ours on your phone, and you
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: asked me if I wanted to subscribe to a service
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: called NickPix.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: NickPix.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: NickPix. And you just sent me this email as though
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: it were from a bot saying, you have subscribed to NickPix.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Press F in the chat. Rename for good luck. Unsubscribe
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: by being lame. And then I hit F. And then
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Ben proceeded to send me like a dozen screenshots of
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: the iTunes reviews for this show. And my response was,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: what the hell? That was brutal. I avoid these reviews
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: like the plague. Explain yourself, sir.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, also, don't forget that you did get, along with that,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: some top-notch Nick picks, which a friend of ours, artist
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Nick Benson.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Nick Benson, Admiral Turbo, he goes by. But I bring
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: it up because I wanted to read– most of these
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: were quite good. And Ben has a good point that
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of our iTunes reviews or Apple podcasts are
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: either one star or five stars.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Depending on where you fall on the spectrum. But this
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: is one I quite enjoyed. The subject is such a
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: waste of resources. And here's the review. So one star.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: The topics and headlines of the new podcast episodes are great,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: but when you listen, you realize they aren't there to
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: cover it, but to go off on nerd tangents and
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: dialogue that is completely irrelevant. No offense, but I don't
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: want to listen to your side convos and inside jokes.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Stay on topic and present the story. One of the
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: guys is the worst and always takes it off topic.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: All caps. No one cares. Stick to the content. He
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: didn't identify who which one of us was the worst.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: But I would conjecture that if you're listening to the
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: show now and you're still listening, then you're one of
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: those people who likes the side convos in the nerd
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: chat at the top of the show.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I remember that one. And I don't know who that is.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: I feel like they're naming all three of us. There
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: was one there was one review. I can't remember if
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I sent this to you.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: That made me laugh.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: And it made me think of you, Casey, because a
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: lot of it was telling us not to. They were like,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: we don't understand. I don't understand who this Casey Pegram is.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Why are these guys fawning? That's the word they used, fawning.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Great word, F-A-W-N. Why are they fawning over this person
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: we don't know? And I thought, wow, you have not
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: listened to the show ever because super producer Casey Pegram
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: has been there since day one.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I did see that review and it cracked me up.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: Just somebody coming into the middle and being like, who
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: is this guy? Why do they keep mentioning this guy?
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, we fawn for good reason. I mean,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: it's a fawn that comes honestly because Casey Pegram is
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: one of both of our favorite people. And if you
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: can't get on board with that, listener, then maybe you
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: need to find yourself a different podcast.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: We literally have a t-shirt with Casey's face on it.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks again for letting us pull that one off, Casey.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I'm wearing it right now.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And Noel is wearing one of them, yeah.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: So.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Folks, I'm as baffled by all of this as you are.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Well, they don't know the backstory of how I spent
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the better part of, what, seven months trying to talk
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you into letting me get a shirt with your face
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: on it. And you politely told me it was weird.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: But now we're doing it for a show. Yeah, that's
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: how it goes.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: That was a severely.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I'll tolerate you, Ben, response from our good friend Casey.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I'm fine with that. I think Casey held it together delightfully.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Speaking of holding it together delightfully, we should probably do
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: an actual show.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Right, right. So I'm not mentioning the beautiful lilt of the...
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: How do we get to the reviews? I'm not mentioning
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: the beautiful lilt of the Irish accent for nothing. Today's
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: show does concern the Irish, but not necessarily Ireland. We
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: were talking about a time when the Irish invaded our
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: fair country to the north of the U.S., Canada.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Didn't we do another Canada invasion story pretty recently? We did.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: It was Fort Blunder, which was built on the wrong
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: side of the border. That's right, because we were concerned
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: about an invasion from Canada. This episode concerns an invasion from...
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: of Canada by the Finians, who were members of a
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: 19th century movement that was all about Irish independence from Britain.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: They were a secret organization. They were outlawed in the
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: British Empire. And they were also known in Britain as
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the Irish Republican Brotherhood. Is this a precursor to the IRA, Ben?
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I believe, I believe that is correct, at least in
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: terms of concepts, right? So the IRA would be thematically
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: descended or ideologically descended, if not directly descended. So tell
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: us a little bit about those roots then, Ben. Of
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the Finians, sure. The Finian Brotherhood was founded in the
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: United States in 1858, and it was a precursor to
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: things like the Irish Republican Brotherhood. The members were known
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: as Finians, and Mahoney, John Mahoney, that is, one of
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: the founders, was a Gaelic scholar who named his organization
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: after the Fianna legendary band of Irish warriors. So they
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: traced their origins back to the 1790s when there was
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: a rebellion seeking to end British rule in Ireland, first
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: for self-government and then later to establish an Irish republic.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: When John O'Mahony had founded this, he did it after
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: he had traveled to the continent to avoid arrest in Ireland.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: And then he had lived in France for a little bit,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: still planning to overthrow British rule in Ireland. And in 1856,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: he came to the United States to found the Finian Brotherhood.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: And in some ways, the Finian Brotherhood was aiming to
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: become a replacement Irish government. They had adopted a constitution
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: that rules for general governance, and so on. And this was,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: it's important to note, this was an American branch of
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: this larger Finian movement. And the main thing that they
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: did originally was to raise funds and obtain weapons to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: send to Ireland. The mission of the Finians was always
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: ultimately to overthrow and drive out the British forces.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: So here's the thing, too. Most of the Finians had
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: been made super battle-weary and hardened, rugged even, by the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: American Civil War where they had fought. They were experienced.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: They had seen plenty of brutal and bloody battle, and
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: they were very, very skilled. Right.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Out of all these immigrants who had fought in the
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Civil War, 10,000 joined the Finians after the war ended
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: in 1865.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: That's the U.S. Civil War.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Under the leadership of a brigadier general, Thomas William Sweeney.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: They also elected that government in exile, what we're talking about,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: New York, and they changed their strategy. They said, instead
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of just moving money and soldiers and weapons to Ireland,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: let's do something else. Let's take the fight for Irish
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: freedom to British Canada. Here's how it came about. In 1865,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: an American ship called Aaron's Hope, E-R-I-N-S, was intercepted by
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the British Navy on the way to Ireland. The ship
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: was loaded with soldiers and ammunition bound for this planned
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Finian revolt. The mission failed, and the Finian branch in
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: America held an emergency convention in Philadelphia. a guy named
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: William Randall Roberts, who was a radical firebrand, was elected
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: president of the Finians, and he said, let's invade the
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: British North American colonies of Canada. And they thought this
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: was maybe not a good idea. They thought it was
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: something they could pull off. They thought it was possible
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: and plausible.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Because even then, I mean, the Canadians probably had the
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: same reputation they have now as being pretty chill, agreeable folks, right?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because— The Finians already had some support politically
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: in the U.S., and the government didn't really mess with
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: their meetings or gatherings and stuff. And Canada's borders were
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: virtually unsecured. The only guards they had were citizen volunteers.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: So all these veterans who have military experience and are
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: armed because they were able to get this. I didn't
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: know this. After the Civil War, they were able to
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: purchase their rifles and ammo at a super deep discount.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: They're like, hey, congratulations on surviving. This usually costs, you know, $ 20,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: but we'll give it to you for two.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Just because of like as a reward almost for their service?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Congratulations.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: You are alive. Here's a deep discount for you. That's,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: you know, better than nothing, I guess.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I know the next thing you want is another gun.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Another gun and more stuff to do. That's right. And
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: more and more people to kill and protect yourself from
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: being killed by. But, you know, if there was anyone
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do that with, it would be the Canadians.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: But that could be entirely incorrect. That reputation could be
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: absolutely a fabrication and Canadians could actually be bloodthirsty killers.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: But we don't really have that information here in this story.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: We don't. What we do know is that the idea
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: for the invasion or the seeds were planted as far
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: back as 1865 when the Finians in the U.S. split
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: up into two factions. One was headed by William Roberts,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: the other by a guy named John O. Mahoney. who
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: was a member, was one of the founding members of
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the Brotherhood, right? And the Roberts wing is actually the
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: one that suggested doing this invasion of Canada. And here
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: are some of the supporting details that they put forth
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: as a justification for this plan. They pointed to the
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: fact that there were hundreds of thousands of these battle-hardened
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: veterans that could support this invasion. And if they did
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: it and timed it in the right way, it could
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: bring about a real revolution in Ireland if they controlled Canada.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: It would also force the British government to be engaged
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: in two different wars separated by an ocean, which logistically
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: is incredibly expensive. And eventually they realized that that rebellion
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: they were hoping for, that revolution they were hoping for
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: in Ireland was not actually going to take place or
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: gain the momentum they wanted it to gain. They kept
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: with the idea of the invasion, but the goal changed. Instead,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: they said, let's make sure we can engineer a border
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: incident between the US and Britain that will force them
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: into another war. And, you know, it's no secret at
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: this point that the US and Britain are still very
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: sore at one another. The British Empire heavily favored the
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Confederacy during the Civil War, which is a fact that
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: many people are unaware of. During the war, in fact,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the British government almost granted diplomatic recognition to the Confederacy.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: And this kind of tense, uncool vibe between the U.S.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and the Brits was probably not going to lead to
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: another full-scale war. but it did mean that the U.S.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: government was certainly not going to go out of its
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: way to assist British forces in Canada. As a matter
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: of fact, we have solid proof that President Andrew Johnson
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: was aware of the Finians' plan for this Irish invasion
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: of Canada, but he didn't really do anything to stop it.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: He was kind of like Gene Wilder playing Willy Wonka
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: in the original and good adaptation of Charlie and the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Chocolate Factory, where he says, no, stop, help.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Please. Yeah, it's true. So let's go a little deeper
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: into what the U.S. 's role in this whole thing was. Yeah.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Why were they OK with all of this?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So like you said before, I mean, Andrew Johnson was
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: clearly more or less OK with letting the Finian Brotherhood
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: kind of poke Britain in the eye. But he actually
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: had some more strategic kind of long term things to
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: gain here. U.S. was really deep in this idea of
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: manifest destiny, of expanding Europe. their territorial holdings to the West.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: And the government actually participated in this planned rebellion. Johnson
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: met with some of the leaders of the Finians and
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: helped get them discounts on weapons that they sold to them.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And he gave them his backing with the understanding that
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: if the Irish did take over Canada, they would sort
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: of be in league with the United States. That would
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: be better than having a territory bordering our country that
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: was controlled by the British, who, while we were tacit
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: with at the time, were not, you know, fast friends.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of, like, simmering resentments held over from, obviously,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: the Revolutionary War.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Right. And even during the Civil War, at the time,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Johnson is pressing the British government to pay reparations for
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: different damages incurred during the Civil War for which he
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: feels they are responsible. And we've still, okay, back to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: our two competing Finian factions. This is the Finian faction
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: fact check.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I got through that. All right.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Well done, sir. Thank you, sir.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: So these two different factions launched two different operations. In
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: April of 1866, the O'Mahony Wing tries to seize an
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: island near New Brunswick. But the U.S. Navy, oddly enough,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: disperses them. They had gathered in Maine, but they were
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: disbanded under the eyes of watchful U.S.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Troops.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: No one in the federal government was super stoked about
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: reigning in these Finians because they thought that they might
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: lose the Irish vote, which was a huge voting block, right?
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: So as a result, the Finians were able to organize
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: a much larger campaign later. The other wing, the Roberts wing,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: launched its attack on Canada under the command of a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Civil War veteran on June 1, 1866. General O'Neill led
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: a force of over 1,000 men into Canadian territory near
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Fort Erie in Ontario. And initially, they had some pretty
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: good success. They won two battles, including the Battle of Ridgeway,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and they only had about 10 people die on their side,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: same number of people dead. or around the same number
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: dead on the Canadian side. But what was the Battle
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: of Ridgeway? And why, it's funny because in our notes here,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: we have it listed as the so-called Battle of Ridgeway.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Was it just too small to be a battle or
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: what was it?
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So this conflict had several names. There was the Battle
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: of Lime Ridge or Limestone Ridge and of course the
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Battle of Ridgeway. And this began, this conflict on the
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: morning of June the 2nd, 1966, and it was near
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: a village called Ridgeway and also a town in Canada
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: called Fort Erie, which is now Ontario. And there were
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: 800 Canadian soldiers and they faced off against around the
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: same number, a little less actually, Finians, around 800, between
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: 750 and 800 Finians, who had crossed the Niagara River
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: from Buffalo, New York. And it's interesting because historically this
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: is a significant thing for Canada because it's the first
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: battle of the Industrial Age that was fought entirely by
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: by Canadians and led exclusively by Canadian troops because they
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: were typically part of a British offensive, right?
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: It's a good point. This is also the last battle
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: fought in Ontario against a foreign invasion force. And in 1921,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: it became a national historic site. So one thing that
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I think reflects well on the character of the Finians
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: in this conflict is that the troops were respectful of
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: local civilians and Canadian prisoners of war. In fact, one
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Canadian soldier, Lance Corporal William Ellis, later writing about his experience,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: remarked that the Finians' treatment of myself and the other
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: prisoners was kind and considerate in the extreme. So they've
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: got that contagious Canadian vibe, right? It gets into everything.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: O'Neill was aware that the Canadian forces were overall, were much,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: much larger than the team he had put together. And eventually,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: those forces would come to bear. So on the 3rd
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: of June, he said, okay, we're going to take the
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: army back into U.S. territory, and we're going to wait
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: for some friendly reinforcements. But at this point, the U.S. government,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: because politics is nothing if not fickle, the U.S. government said,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: all right, maybe this is getting out of control. Like,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: we don't like the Brits either, but... Come on, guys.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: So once they got back across the border, O'Neill's army
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: was met by American troops who said, no, no more
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: crossing the border. You can't make any more attacks. And
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: over the next few days, the American forces broke up
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: the Finian army. O'Neill was even arrested and temporarily incarcerated.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the U.S. Marshals actually swept through and did the
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: arresting and incarcerating in question there. There was a smaller
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: incursion into Canada, a smaller contingent of Finian troops. But
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: this was pretty much quashed as well. The second Finian
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: army was broken up by U.S. forces when they got
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: back to American soil. And by the 8th of June,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: it was all over. That was it. That was it. Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Kind of ended with a whimpering. Yeah, so that's why
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: it's a so-called battle, right?
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: It's more of a series of skirmishes. About 850 Finians
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: were captured by U.S.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Authorities.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: As you have mentioned, another 100 were caught by the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Canadian militia. There was another raid, no casualties. A lot
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: of the reason there was no casualties, because U.S. federal
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: authorities had taken the Finians' guns and ammunition. And the Finians,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: eventually after these failed attempts, are more or less disbanded
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: because the entire invasion demonstrated the futility of their strategy.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: It proved that Canadian forces would fight to preserve their land,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: and more importantly, they could mobilize thousands of volunteers from
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: their population to fight for it. There wasn't much hope
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: that the Finians could get as many people as they
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: needed to first seize Canadian territory, much less hold it
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: against volunteer Canadian forces that far outnumbered them, And the
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Finians learned that no matter what the U.S. government might
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: say or how it might feel about the British Empire,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: they're not going to offer any real support. You know
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: what I mean? They were kind of doing a proxy
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: war thing.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly. That's totally true. So what happened in 1870 was
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: that a convention took place within the Brotherhood. And that's
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: when they decided to launch another attack on Canada. Because
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: it worked so well the first time. Let's do this.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: They were resolved. And so John O'Neill was to head
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: up the Finian forces. And we have John Boyle. John
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Boyle O'Reilly, that is, who is a journalist who is
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: hanging out as well. O'Reilly is the reason that we
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: have a lot of the juicy details from these conflicts.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: And this one was particularly disastrous for the concept of
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Finianism in these fair United States, right?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: What's strange is that they did have an unintended benefit
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: for nationalism. It just wasn't Irish nationalism. Those raids in
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: 1866 didn't do much for Irish nationalism, patriotism, but they
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: became a defining moment in Canadian history. In February of 1867,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: various Canadian colonies were combined into the Dominion of Canada
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: while some factions of Finians continued fighting. I love the
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: alliteration here. They clearly, if you just look at your
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: closest available world map, did not manage to liberate Northern
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Ireland yet. A ship full of Irish-American fighters landed in
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Western Ireland in May of 1867 and In 1870, there
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: was another Finian raid. In October 1871, a few dozen
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Finians marched in Manitoba or toward Manitoba, hoping to join
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: some rebels. They got arrested. They just couldn't get the
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: leverage they need. But you have to wonder, Noel, what
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: do you think those guys would think of Brexit if
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: they heard about it now? Because Ireland proper is still
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: going to be a member of the European Union.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: It's a good question. I mean, I think it seems
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: like I don't know. I mean, Brexit is more about British,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Britain for the British. And this one's sort of about Irish,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Ireland for the Irish, or like breaking away from Britain.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: So I think they'd probably be into it, right?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm wondering because the idea of Northern Ireland gaining
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: independence to retain EU status, you know, I just wonder,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: these are new politics to us, but they are politics
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: with a long, long story. Well, Casey, I think you've
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: spent the most time out of the three of us
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: in the EU. Do you have any insight on what's
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: going to happen? Could Brexit in a way end up
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: reuniting Ireland?
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Reuniting or reigniting the Troubles is kind of the fear
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: that the kind of the very delicate piece that's been
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: worked out there since the height of the Troubles sounds
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: like it could be in jeopardy again and that that
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: border with Northern Ireland could become contentious and It could
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: be more of like, I think, a patrolled border. There
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: could be difficulties with like imports and exports. So it's,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's a very like messy and delicate situation.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: From what I understand, I'm far, far, far from an
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: expert in that region. But that's kind.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Of what I've heard.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Casey on the case. And we want to hear your take, folks,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: because one thing this show has taught us is that
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: history is chock full of strange events. attempts at revolution
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: that sort of devolve into a couple of dozen dudes
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: maybe with guns maybe not.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah i mean hopefully with guns it makes for a
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: more interesting story right what.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: What are your what are your weirdest invasion stories that
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: you've encountered locally or in your travels let us know
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you can find us on instagram you can find us
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: on facebook you can find us on twitter we're ridiculous
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: historians on facebook where you can meet one of our
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: favorite parts of the show your fellow listeners If.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: You wish, you can find me on Instagram at how
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: now Noel Brown, where I just, you know, do various
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: and sundry things around the house and a little bit
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: of travel, a little bit of kicking it with the
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: kid and going to shows and whatnot. And I think
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Ben is on there as well. I am.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: The rumors are true. You can find me at Ben Bullen.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: You'll see me getting kicked into and out of various
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: places on my quest for the perfect slice of pizza.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I'm kidding. When it comes to food, I am, I'm a,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I'm a garbage fire. I'm a dumpster. Just throw food
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: at me. I don't need a plate. I will just,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I'll catch it and eat it. But yeah, you can
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: see some various ill-informed misadventures there at Ben Bolin. We
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: want to give a big thanks to super producer Casey
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: LeBouche Pegram. We want to also thank Christopher Haciotis, Yves Jeffcoat.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Gabe Lugier, our research associate, and a new addition to
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: the show, research pal Ryan Barish. And of course, Alex Williams,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: who composed our theme. We'll see you next time, folks.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.